Archive for the ‘Blind Tech’ Category
Wednesday, August 25th, 2021
“I came to this country to start leading the project and start putting all the technicalities together to start doing captions and audio description in Spanish, serving the Latino community.”

Maria Victoria Diaz PhD, an Electrical Engineer left Colombia to help “Flip the Script” not only on Audio Description but access in general for native Spanish speaking people.
President of Dicapta & Chair of Dicapta Foundation, her efforts continue to prove that creating access for one group can benefit others as well. In this episode hear about ;
* The struggle for Spanish AD
* Access 4 All – Dicapta Foundation’s solution assuring Audio Description can be shared across platforms.
* Go CC – providing access for the Deaf Blind to content and emergency information
… and more.
It’s fitting that I open this episode with my own Spanish translation.
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Transcript
TR:
Reid My Mind Radio Family! Before we get into this latest episode, I need your help.
I want to take Reid My Mind Radio to the next level, that’s making it a sustainable venture.
But I need to know more about you, the listener. I’d really appreciate if you could take a few moments to fill out
a quick survey. Just go to ReidMyMind.com and hit the link that says , hmm, what should I call it?… Survey!
— Music Begins A mid-tempo Reggaeton Hip Hop influenced groove.
TR:
Greetings, my beautiful brothers and sisters.
Welcome back to another episode of Reid My Mind Radio.
You know, the podcast featuring compelling people impacted by all degrees of
blindness and disability
TR in Spanish:
Saludos, mis hermosos hermanos y hermanas.
Bienvenido a otro episodio de Reid My Mind Radio.
Ya sabes, el podcast que presenta
a personas atractivas
afectadas por todos
los grados de ceguera y discapacidad.
TR:
We’re continuing with our Flipping the Script on Audio Description series.
TR in Spanish:
Continuamos con nuestra serie Flipping the Script en Audio Description.
TR:
By now, you should have an idea of where we’re going in this episode. If not, give me a moment for my theme music, and then I’ll introduce you to my new friend and she’ll make it clear.
TR in Spanish:
A estas alturas, debería tener una idea de hacia dónde vamos en este episodio.
Si no, dame un momento para mi tema musical, y luego te presentaré a mi nueva amiga y ella te lo dejará claro.
— Reid My Mind Theme Music
MV Diaz:
“I came to this country to start leading the project and start putting all the technicalities together to start doing captions and audio description in Spanish, serving the Latino community.”
TR:
That’s Maria Victoria Diaz.
MV Diaz:
I used to be Maria Victoria and now I’m just Maria, in this country.
TR:
I like people to feel at home around me.
And she said I can call her Vicky.
— Music begins –
MV Diaz:
I’m from Colombia. I’m Latina. I have tan skin and brown eyes, my hair is over my shoulders usually is how I wear my hair.
I’m the President of the Dicapta and the director of the board of the Dicapta Foundation.
I’m an electronic engineer. I’m hard of hearing.
My pronouns, she/hers.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
Tell me a little bit about you. And let’s start with how you became interested in audio description.
MV Diaz:
I started working as an engineer in a television company in my country.
The first time that I saw captions in my country was working in television, and I was like, What is that for?
I started to be interested in captions.
Specifically being hard of hearing, that was like natural to be interested in that kind of service.
Then I started working, specifically researching about accessibility features, specifically, to make television accessible.
That’s where I started like, 20 years ago, trying to push in my country for some policy or regulations for captions to be included.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
How successful was that?
MV Diaz:
It was just good luck.
At that time, I had friends in the television industry, some of my colleagues from school, were the technical director of different television stations there.
TR:
Actually, that wasn’t the so called good luck. Those friends in high places didn’t make it happen. At least not until the government got involved.
MV Diaz:
So they came to me suddenly, one day, like, oh, there’s this new regulation that we need to comply, then help us please.
I think that one person, the government had a child who was deaf, and then that’s how they became interested. Sadly, that’s the reason most of the time.
And so I started doing captions for every single television station in the country and training.
TR:
What began as a two person team in 15 days grew to 20 people.
MV Diaz:
We needed to cover all the regulation that came at that time.
We help them to install the technical facilities for captioning
So the sad part of the story is that that regulation came at still the same 20 years after just like, two hours per week one newscast in the per channel.
TR:
Soon after that work began with captions, she met a guy who was Blind. He had a question.
MV Diaz:
Have you consider doing something for me?
And I was like, what kind of service Do you need, or how I can serve your needs?
And so he was telling me about Kurosawa’s “Dream” movie. And
he was describing for me every single scene of that movie, and I was like, how you can tell me those details about that movie If you don’t see. So I was so interested in his specific process.
TR:
That movie, Dreams, a 1990 film by acclaimed film maker
Akira Kurosawa was subtitled.
MV Diaz:
It was like a team effort, in a way with friends from his university.
I started researching how I can be involved in that field. It was like 20 years ago.
It was aligned with my interest in I wanted to be a musician, when I finished my high school, and I couldn’t because according to my doctors, being hard of hearing, it was not a good idea to be a musician.
I was like, Okay, I have to fight to do something else to overcome barriers.
TR:
At this point Dicapta, Vicky’s team of 20, was working on caption and Audio Description
when she was approached by one of the 2 private Colombian broadcast company’s.
They wanted to buy her out and control the market. Her response?
MV Diaz:
No, I’m not interested.
I started looking for options to serve to in Spanish in other places. And I found out that in the United States, services in Spanish were like really nothing available, not for captions, not for description at that time. So I decided to write an email to the Department of Ed asking how I can participate in your initiatives. And they told me, no, you have to talk to the television stations or to the channels. And you have to ask them. We’re not the right source for business.
TR:
Vicky’s response set her on a path and in my opinion says a lot about her motivation.
MV Diaz:
I’m not looking for business, I want to know how I can contribute in the discussion.
So they just mentioned it to me that they have a television Access Program. I’m talking about 15 years ago, 16 years ago.
TR:
It’s government, so that means lots of paperwork.
MV Diaz:
I can tell you that I was in Colombia, in my office preparing a proposal for the Department of Ed,
I had no idea how to do business in the United States… the right words to use or how to fill these forms. And I just started reading the forms , filling them up giving my ideas there.
I guess that it was a really good proposal, because we just got funded,
TR:
Come on, you know it can’t be that easy.
MV Diaz:
They call me but you can’t run a project, serving the Latino community from your country, you have to be here. And I was like, okay!
TR:
In about two weeks, she gathers her belongings, leaves Colombia and is in
the states.
MV Diaz:
I just really thank the Department of Ed gave us the opportunity to just try to add value, and to discuss and to tell what we think.
It’s wonderful for me that I every single time that I try to do it, sometimes I have to work a little bit more. I can talk with whoever I wanted to. And I can, I can just at least try. Most of the times the answer is no, we’re not interested. But it is okay. Just to have the opportunity to share what you think.
TR:
Thankful for that opportunity, Vicky uses her voice to continue her mission.
MV Diaz:
I came to this country to start leading the project and start putting all the technicalities together to start doing captions and audio description in Spanish, serving the Latino community.
TR:
While Dicapta is a for profit company, most of the work being done has been through the nonprofit Dicapta Foundation.
MV Diaz:
We really have some new partnerships doing dubbing in Spanish but most of the work that we do in audio description and captions is funded by the Department of Ed.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
So accessing audio description for television, and cable here in the States requires the sap the secondary audio programming.
And it just happens to be that that’s the same channel that delivers Spanish translations in for shows in English. So does this mean that it’s impossible for a person who speaks Spanish to be blind? Hashtag sarcasm?
MV Diaz:
(Laughs)
Kind of…
Spanish language television, They don’t have a Spanish in their SAP, they don’t have anything in the sap.
So we’re not competing with the Spanish translation in the Spanish television, we’re competing with the Spanish translation in the English television.
The big problem here is that the CVA didn’t include Spanish.
So the first thing is audio description in Spanish has to be mandated.
What I have learned is that the FCC is following the mandate from the Congress. So how to push for Spanish to be included? I don’t know Tom
TR:
Remember, the CVAA or the 21st Century Telecommunications Accessibility Act
requires local TV station affiliates of ABC, CBS,
Fox, and NBC located in the top 60 TV markets
to provide 87.5 hours per calendar quarter.
How’s this for a regulation; AD on everything!)
MV Diaz:
Telemundo Okay, they are part of NBC. NBC is under the regulation, why? Telemundo is not under regulation?
TR:
Hmm good question. But, bad answer.
MV Diaz:
No, because it is not. Period.
But why, if they are under regulation and Telemundo is part of NBC? No,
I became part of the disability Advisory Committee of the FCC, and I was like, I’m ready. This is exactly the place where we’re gonna change the story.
No, no, no, no,. (Said slowly with lots of frustration)
TR:
When it comes to advocating for Spanish AD, it often comes down to priorities.
MV Diaz:
We have different problems in our community, bigger than the accessibility, I have to say that.
We are in a different place in history right now. Our concern is more, jobs, education and immigration. We are trying to fight different fights. We don’t have Latino consumers as organize. The Blind Latino consumers that we have been working with, it is not enough.
I don’t know, my grandma said something, but I can’t translate. How is your Spanish Tomas?
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
Well!
— Sample Price is Right loser tone!
MV Diaz:
My grandma used to say just one little bird is not able to call winter.
TR:
There’s power in numbers.
MV Diaz:
The consumer organizations, they know that that’s a problem.
If you have to go to the Congress, or if you have to go to the FCC, asking for specific questions, is going to be like priority number 10, maybe or, let’s say, five to be more generous.
, but is never going to be their first priority. I kind of understand now
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
I think that can be said about a lot of communities.
There are definitely people who say, oh, why are you talking about audio description all the time, we need jobs. I get that. I also see a relationship between jobs and audio description, education and audio description.
TR:
Couldn’t these lower priority issues serve as vehicles to elevate those considered higher priority. Especially when putting into context?
That’s what I mean when I say, “Audio Description is about much more than entertainment.
MV Diaz:
Our a Latino community communicates in Spanish. We are trying to have that. In here. We are trying to find our space and our beliefs, our roots, our culture alive.
It is incredible. The amount of kids that are Spanish speakers coming from different countries don’t speak English yet need access and they don’t have the access that they need.
We are working with the DCMP and they are doing a really great job. And we are trying to include some educational titles there. But in entertainment we are really, really far
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
I’m thinking about the streaming companies, they’re not obligated under the CVAA. But they do decide to go ahead and stream audio description, Univision, Telemundo, none of them are interested in doing it at all? Have you not been able to talk to them?
MV Diaz:
Yeah, I have talked to them. I don’t know. They think that I’m just a girl trying again.
But no, the thing is that, for example, Telemundo at the beginning, what they told me like three years ago, they didn’t have SAP in the whole network.
So they didn’t want to provide the service for this kind of part of the audience and not to others
We have been working with funds from the department of Ed.
TR:
Those fund enabled Vicky to have one request.
MV Diaz:
We’re gonna provide you with the description. You just have to put it on there.
Even that is really hard tom.
We included audio description but the cable companies. Don’t pass it.
For example, Channel 22. They are an international television channel. They are in DirecTV, they are in
we provided Audio Description. we created all the audio track.
Okay, DirecTV, No audio description. Spectrum, no audio description.
TR:
Cable companies, you had one job!
But regulations do really go a long way.
MV Diaz:
Caption is not that bad. I can tell you because of the regulations. The FCC regulation includes Spanish captions. So we are safe there.
Just because the regulation is there, they just know what it is. They know what it’s about.
TR:
In the rare event that the cable company does pass the AD, you better catch it that first time being aired because it probably won’t happen again. Whether on that same channel or another.
The problem, many of us have experienced.
we know a show or film has AD,
maybe we saw it on one channel or on a DVD,
but another broadcaster or streaming network doesn’t pass it.
MV Diaz:
Let’s try to do it ourselves. And that’s why we started working in a different direction creating technology and creating Access 4 All.
TR:
Access 4 All is a central repository for any accessibility asset.
That’s the actual digital caption, audio description and ASL files for example.
No matter the language! They’re all stored in one location.
Access 4 All serves as a clearinghouse.
MV Diaz:
Dicapta is a really small organization. We need influential organization or powerful organization to believe in the value of a clearinghouse the importance of sharing the resource that we have.
That’s why we are creating like a membership model under the foundation. The idea is for people to come and say, okay, I created this audio description and no matter if you are in Mexico or if you are in London or if you are in Italy, that specific program is going to be accessible.
So that’s the big dream.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
When you say a membership, so for example, Netflix would come in as a member, the BBC would come in as a member, Argentina television would come in.
so they would have a membership. And they would upload all of their audio description tracks to this repository.
MV Diaz:D
So who’s member of this repository right now?
New Day films, some movies from PBS POV and the Spanish content that we are creating with funds from the Department of Ed.
TR:
Plus, it empowers us as users to access the assets ourselves.
MV Diaz:
You just download the app. You just can watch the program with audio description, you can read captions, or you can do the ASL version of the program if it’s available.
TR:
The app developed with funds from the Department of Education, is free!
Check it out!
download the app…
Start the film, while your app is open… And voila!
TR:
Right now Dicapta is working on creating a searchable catalog. Already, they have over 300 hours of content.
— Dicapta audio icon
TR:
That little tune or audio icon was created by consumers of audio description and members of the Dicapta advisory committee.
It’s formed by the notes D, C, A, and G.
D for Description, C for Collaboration, and
A Accessibility.
The sequence finishes with a G major chord that stands for Go!
It includes a graphical element as well.
It’s formed by two purple triangularly shaped capital letters “A”.
The letters are thick and slanted toward each other so that
the adjacent sides are in a vertical position.
A blue number 4 sits over the letter A on the left.
The horizontal bar that goes from left to right on the number 4 matches the horizontal bar that goes from left to right on the letter A and also covers a small portion of the letter A on the right.
MV Diaz:
What we are proposing is to add that icon at the beginning of the program or during our in them guide, just to show that is in the repository.
I have tried to talk to the big players in the industry. But it is not an easy conversation.
my invitation is this Okay, so that if you don’t have a solution, we have one maybe you can use these one or you can start trying it and see if it if it works and if not someone come with a better one, right? But today we don’t have any solution. We are not sharing, we are creating the same track twice instead of Sharing the one that is already created.
— Sesame Street Cookie Monster shares with Elmo
Elmo:
Oh, Cookie Monster would share his cookie?
Cookie Monster:
Yep, it’s against my primal instinct, but you share with me, and me share with you.
TR:
There are some who understand.
MV Diaz:
Nickelodeon. Latin America, we launched a project with them using “Access 4 All” and they did audio description for some shows. And then they are promoting the show.
Maybe that’s kind of the support that we would need.
TR:
There’s more to be hopeful about.
MV Diaz:
the world is changing. And I see a better scenario for accessibility now that the one that I found when I came 15 years ago, the conversation is different. More people knows about accessibility and about the descriptions. So I think that consumers are more aware of that. Okay. Maybe it’s possible. I just have to say, Tom, I really thank Netflix. They are, they are they’re showing different ways. To support accessibility, and they are including Spanish, they are asking for audio description in Spanish to be included.
Hopefully, if they are showing that the assets are going to be there, or maybe somebody is going to decide to share.
TR:
It’s probably worth mentioning that Apple too offers access in Spanish.
I know there are decision makers or at least some who have the ear of decision makers
who listen to the Flipping the Script series, and
hopefully the podcast in general.
I believe many of them are sincerely about providing access because they see it as fair and just.
If you are an independent content creator, I encourage you to talk to Vicky and get your captions, audio description and any access assets on to Access 4 All.
MV Diaz:
it’s supposed to be a membership.
For now Dicapta Foundation, we’re not charging anything to independent producers.
We have a basic agreement saying that you are donating for the Clearinghouse and you’re not charging the user to use. And in case that someone else is interested in having that, that specific accessibility, they’re going to contact the owner to say like, Okay, I’m interested in this audio description to be downloaded to put it somewhere else
I think that we Dicapta, we’re going to concentrate our effort in educational programming and in independent filmmakers.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
Let’s talk about the work that you’ve been doing with a community that’s often overlooked, and that’s the deafblind community. Tell me how Dicapta is serving that community?
MV Diaz:
I invited the daughter of a friend of mine who is Deaf Blind to one of our advisory meetings. We were talking about television and about movies and about access. We were trying one app. We asked her for her opinion, oh, my goodness. She was like… Are you serious?
We don’t have access to television. I haven’t watched television in my whole entire life, how you think that I’m going to go to the movies. And it was really a bad moment in that room.
TR:
Come on, we know by now, Vicky turns these sorts of situations into good.
She reached out to more consumers for input.
MV Diaz:
And so we started trying to, to bring captions to braille displays in a in a way that that they can have some kind of access, those of them that are Braille readers. So that is a minority among the minority and the minority. But given access to the caption streams through braille displays, was the general idea to start working with. So it was like four or five years ago that we started working with that project, and we got funds from the Department of Health. And we were able to produce the solution but then again, the problems came and the industry and the practices
TR:
Of course they did!
Technically, captions on Braille displays is easy. The problem is when your captions don’t include the name of the person speaking. So it’s just an endless stream of words without context.
MV Diaz:
We try to push again, like, changing best practices just include identification of the speaker in the captions or streams just to serve the deafblind community. And so we produce documents and we spread the word in the industry in the caption providers to whoever is creating captions just provide identification for the speakers to make sure that no matter what technology is coming, captions are gonna serve the Deaf Blind community.
[
TR:
The service is called Go CC and provides even more for this community.
MV Diaz:
We work with FEMA to provide emergency alert information.
we work with the Helen Keller National Center. And that’s the reason why the product is as good as it is because we work with the consumers and they created what they needed.
It was not our invention, we just did what they asked us to do.
Next step in that is just to find a foundation or an organization that has all the capacity to share that into the community in a way that we can’t do.
TR:
Dicapta’s expertise is in solving problems and creating access.
MV Diaz:
We put together captions and audio description in stream text to make sure that the deafblind communities serve. So we’re doing that through Access 4 All. So if you use access for all you can use it from your Braille display too. And you can read captions, read the descriptions. And it is done. It is already there.
TR:
The challenge is the speed of that stream of information in relation to the actual film. It could be difficult to stay in sync.
Yes, someone could read the transcript and avoid the movie all together, if watching alone.
MV Diaz:
I don’t want you to go by yourself to the movies, I want to go with you.
Same thing with television, coming from our culture, we don’t do things alone, we do things with families all the time. So it is the idea is to have sync it with the movie, just to make sure that you can be part of a group of people watching the movie.
it is the experience of being with someone else. What is different,
TR:
Family. Friends. Community!
Sharing… y’all feel what’s happening here. It’s about more than access for Vicky.
That young lady who never had access to television, they’re on Vicky’s advisory team.
MV Diaz:
$
I’m here to show you that maybe I apologize. But we do we do better now and then try to do better things.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
Congratulations. I believe you got a television access award. Is that what it was? Tell us about it.
MV Diaz:
Yeah. It is wonderful.
I have to tell that that the Department of Education hasn’t been recognized enough for their support to access. So those who have been working with them, we know that they have spent I don’t know how many millions of dollars supporting captions at the beginning before that, the regulation of captions and then audio description for years too.
But it was really not clear if they had plans to continue supporting description, especially after audio description is already mandated by the FCC.
The educational part of it is not as regulated for the network’s.
So that’s why the Department of Ed decided to continue the program.
We got one of the television access awards. We are so happy.
TR:
We should all be happy!
At least those of us who say we care about access.
MV Diaz:
We’re going to make sure that Access 4 All is a reality. Not just for our community, we’re working with English language content two. So every single hour of audio description or captioning that we create is going to be shareable in our clearing house, and is going to be accessible, no matter if you are watching it in one television station, or in any other is going to be accessible using their app
It’s gonna be five years collecting audio description, collecting captions, and asking others to join this effort.
So at least for the educational programming, I think that we’re going to have very good news to report at the end of these five years.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
Okay, so this is a hard question. What are you doing? When you’re not creating all this accessibility?
MV Diaz:
Laughing…
Oh, I’m playing my flute. I’m learning piano. Okay. They pandemia show me my piano in the middle of the living room.
My daughter’s used to play piano because mom wanted them to be the biggest artists. They decided that they don’t like to play.
TR in Conversation with MV Diaz:
they said that was you Mom, not us.
MV Diaz:
Yeah. So I had this big coffee table in the middle of the living room. Coffee Table.
(Hearty laugh along with TR.)
So I have to decide I have two choices. The first one is just giving my piano to someone that is going to use it. Or taking some piano lessons. Yeah.
And I love the music that you play.
I think that we would go to the same party.
TR:
If you’re throwing a party and
you want to invite a strong advocate and someone who is dedicated to access or
if you want to learn more about the great work taking place at Dicapta, open your favorite browser and point it to;
Tags: Access, ASL, Audio Description, Captions, CVAA, DCMP, Deaf Blind, Latino, Latinx, Spanish, Translation Posted in Access Technology, Accessibility, Advocacy, Audio, Blind Tech, Blindness, Descriptive Movies, Descriptive Television, General, Media, Screen Readers | Comments Off on Flipping the Script on Audio Description – Access 4 All
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Wednesday, August 11th, 2021
There’s a lot of conversation taking place about Audio Description. While Flipping the Script is less about the mainstream AD talk, I wanted to bring some perspective to this discussion.
I invited Roy Samuelson to share some of what he has been involved in as a means of creating awareness and advancing Audio Description. We’re both pretty passionate about this subject and while we may disagree on what will be effective, it’s clear our goals align.
Our conversation actually went beyond what we both intended. This version however, is mainly focusing on some news concerning Audio Description awards outside of the blindness organizations, some interesting news regarding The EMMY’s and implications for Blind Narrators and there may even be a special appearance from a Jeanie!
For a less abbreviated version check out The Audio Description Network Alliance or ADNA.org
Getting to Know You!
We’re ready to take this podcast to the next level, but we need your help.
Please, take just a few minutes to fill out this survey.
Want to listen to this podcasts via your smart speaker?
just ask it to play the podcast Reid My Mind Radio by T.Reid on your default podcast player.
Holla Back
If you have any comments regarding this episode or any others for that matter, remember you can;
* Leave a voice mail at 570-798-7343
* Email ReidMyMindRadio at Gmail
* Comment here or @sreid on Twitter
Listen
Transcript
Show the transcript
– “Recording in progress!” Zoom synthesized voice announcement
— Hip Hop Beat begins…
TR:
Greetings beautiful people!
Welcome back to another episode of the podcast bringing you compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability.
My name is Thomas Reid and I appreciate you hanging out with me.
Today, as part of the Flipping the Script on Audio Description series, I want to pause for a moment…
— Pause in the music
and discuss some things happening today to advance Audio Description in the mainstream.
For this, I reached out to Roy Samuelson.
Roy:
Hey, I think I’m here.
TR:
Come on Roy, you know I have to kick off the theme music first!
Roy:
Oh, so excited.
— Reid My Mind Radio Intro
TR:
If you watch movies with AD or you’re following the Audio Description space, chances are you know Roy. He’s a Voice Talent & Audio Description Narrator and Advocate.
We’re doing a sort of joint podcast effort here.
Roy:
Being a part of Reid My Mind Radio has been an honor from the first time that I learned about you and was a part of your conversation and in following all of the amazing podcast episodes that you released over the many years that you’ve been doing this. This is really great, I’m so glad that we’re doing this.
TR:
In addition to interviews with some of your favorite people in Audio Description, You can check out the full version of our conversation over at The Audio Description Network Alliance or ADNA.org.
Roy:
Putting a showcase on the voice, not only to celebrate those specific voice, talents, efforts, but also to give a language to people to be able to talk about audio description, quality and excellence, and give them something to anchor in on and starting with voice talents seemed like a great place to start strategically and see how that goes.
And as it grew into including writers, which it now does, as well as the engineers in the quality control specialists, it’s the audio description network Alliance. And so it’it’s become a lot more inclusive, specifically about film and TV at this point.
— Music begins – an upbeat, high energy Hip Hop beat
TR:
When it comes to Audio Description and this podcast, I want to showcase some of the interesting people and things taking place. I want to ask questions, but let me be clear,
I don’t propose to have the answers, nah, but I do have a perspective that I’d like to share. That’s as a consumer and advocate.
Advocacy, we know, takes many forms, like legislative work as in the CVAA or 21st Century Telecommunications Accessibility Act.
Roy:
I’m not speaking for anybody else, but I do feel that that mandate is an absolute necessity that having the FCC demand so many hours of broadcast television to include audio description has been so influential in where we are today. And it’s a necessity to continue being there.
TR:
Every time you inform a broadcaster, streaming provider or AD creator about your experience, you’re advocating and it makes a difference.
Remember, there’s never just one way to advocate.
Roy shares some information about some of what’s been taking place in his wheelhouse.
Roy:
SOVAS , is a society of voice arts and sciences. And they have
basically a awards for voice talents. It has nothing to do with audio description historically, but I was nominated for a SOVASS award for narration category. So it wasn’t audio description, narration, but it was an audio description narration that I was nominated for.
And over the past few years, I’ve been working with SOVASS , and specifically, this year 2021, I’ve been talking with the heads of SOVASS and sharing some of my experiences as a sighted person and what that means and to make sure that blind people are judges for audio description, when the audio description awards were a part of their categories for awards.
It’s just been amazing to see that connection, which is completely outside of the blind organizations, is now recognizing voice talents in this work. And I think that in a good way, it’s going to start bringing more quality.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
So let me just say that I’m not a big fan of awards, award shows in general.
Now, I admit it’s a great business. Move to gather the top celebrities and harness all of that attention. And brand yourself as the gatekeeper. That’s a great business move.
When I think of audio description, one of the first things that I usually apply to everything AD is, how does it impact the experience for blind people?
I realized that it could be direct at times, a one for one exchange, this happens, and then this happens. But sometimes that’s not the case. Sometimes it’s not necessarily obvious. So how does this help blind people?
Roy:
I think when it comes to celebrating the work of audio description, particularly in the SOVASS, they have found a way too, to share the performance in a way that celebrates it. And it is creating a competition in the sense of the people that are voting for the audio description, narrators are going to choose the best if there’s going to be a handful of submissions. Or if there’s going to be hundreds of submissions, they’re going to have to narrow it down and to narrow it down, they’re going to have to choose the best. And by celebrating which are the best that that’s going to impact our audiences.
This will lead to more quality, because people are going to want to have good voice talents to be able to be a part of this award ceremony, which will lead to better audio description. It’s almost a cart before the horse sort of situation.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
What I’m hearing, though, is that it’s still so dependent on for example, who’s judging? That’s a really big question in my mind, because I think the only people who should be judging audio description are the consumers really, I mean, are we the judges?
what is being judged, is it just that performance? We know that a big part of audio description also is The writing.
If we’re looking at just voice talent, well, it’s probably just going to be all the stuff that makes a good voice artist.
Roy:
The conversations that I’ve had with the leadership of SOVASS is that you can’t do this award without having blind judges, I’m assuming that the people who were invited who are blind have responded.
It is my understanding that that was specifically a part of this arrangement. That’s something that we made explicitly clear,
it’s like, because this whole Nothing about us, without us this entire audio description was created by blind people, for blind people, blind people need to be judging it that is absolutely essential.
In the same way that the ADNA started with voice talents, just to help people wrap their head around it, my understanding is that there’s going to be opportunities in the future for awards for writing, or for engineering that we can start to separate this.
When it comes to the attention being placed on the narrator. Yeah, there are narration skills that go into it. But I agree with you, it’s the writing that makes a ton of difference. And the example I like to use is let’s say, a Shakespeare play and you go through the first act, and it’s the intermission, and you’re just moved to tears by the performances that had happened in it, there’s something that really connected viscerally with the engagement of the different characters and how they were interacting with each other. And whatever thing that that story was, was telling you could be just moved to tears and almost be stuck. The same thing can happen at the end of the first act where you’re in tears, because you just want to get out of the theater. It’s the worst performance you’ve ever seen. You’re trying to figure out how to get out of seeing the second act, because it sucks so much. In both examples, the writing was equal. But there was something that happened. And it was most likely the performance.
It could have been the audio glitches that may have been happening if it for example, was in a big auditorium that had the microphones cutting out It could have been all sorts of other things that got in the way of the performance, but the writing was the same.
Audio description has so many different roles that the weakest link can make the whole audio description suck. That’s where everything has to be lifted up. And again, it is for the audience’s experience that by celebrating each of these different roles, we can celebrate audio description, excellence and quality.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
I’m also concerned with the idea that when a lot of attention is placed on to who the narrator is, does that end up becoming something where again, we’re focusing on the narrator. And then we start to bring in, like, for example, celebrities to narrate. And I’ve heard that idea, floating around as though it would be of benefit. again, just taking all of that attention away from the consumer. I’m always thinking that the consumer, Blind folks should be centered in audio description. So anything that moves away from that, yeah, my Spidey senses are going up.
Roy:
I have to use my experience as a voice talent that
, celebrities never used to do commercials. Now that’s very common. Celebrities didn’t used to do animated features. And, you know, we look at Toy Story, which is now what 20 years old and there’s still a voice talents that are still voicing of animation that by having a celebrity involved in this work…
— DJ Scratch leads into “So What the Fuss” Stevie Wonder with AD Narration by Busta Rhymes
Roy:
I mean, as early as Busta Rhymes back in, what, 1520 years ago for the Stevie Wonder video with the fuss and that was the that was exquisite. The first time I heard that I’m like, Oh, this is so good. I can’t help but smile and nod my head. It’s so beautiful. It’s like, there was something that Busta Rhymes the celebrity brought to that, that brought that piece alive. Not every celebrity can do this. And if there are celebrities that do it, I would hope that the focus still remains on the audio description. But you’re right, there’s no way to control that. I don’t know how to address that.
But I do see that the possibility of that kind of exposure can only grow the quality of this.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
No shots to Busta.
— Sample: “Aight, here’s how it going down.” Busta Rhymes from So What the Fuss
— Music begins a countdown like intro to a driving slow ominous Hip Hop beat
TR in Conversation with Roy:
I think the celebrity might make a difference in terms of marketing, audio description. And again, that leads me to the place where it kind of who is this for? Hmm, this is for the blind community. This is not for others, to just come in and check out all Busta Rhymes is doing this. Oh, whoever is doing this? This is cool. Let me check this out.
That’s fine if it happens, but that’s not what audio description is for.
Roy:
What is the cost to the wide audience in the context that you’re talking about? Or maybe it’s the blind talent? I’m not sure.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
Well, there’s both right. So there is the blind talent, because we’re already competing with non-celebrity talent. That’s fine. But there’s also like I said, just the quality, I’m not sure if the quality is naturally going to go up , right? Because folks can make that determination. That’s what happens with celebrity you let folks in there just to draw the name.
Roy:
Hmm.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
And it doesn’t make a difference. It may not make a difference. In some cases,
How often do celebrities want to get attached to something that just feels good, and then use it in their promo of themselves? It just gives me a really bad taste. And I don’t want to see audio description suffer because of that.
Audio description needs to stay about blind people now. You can create something else, right? So for example, when we talk about there are ways that other folks are using audio description, whether they be truck drivers, whether they be kids with autism, for example, and there may be some modifications that are needed. Absolutely. There should be that. But I don’t think it needs to come at the expense of blind people. So there’s room for all of this.
Sometimes I feel like there’s these fake choices that we’re given; Do you want more? If you do, then you’ll take this.
Why do we have to have that choice? That’s not the choice.
— Transitional sound
TR:
I’m interrupting for a public service announcement.
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a quick survey. Just go to ReidMyMind.com and hit the link that says survey.
Secondly, a few people have asked how they can get this podcast on their favorite smart speaker.
In this example, I use Apple podcast as my default player, so the command would be;
“Hey device, play the podcast Reid My Mind Radio by T.Reid on Apple podcast”
Of course, you can still follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com
That’s R, to the E I D
— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick
Like my last name
— Transition sound returns to the episode
TR in Conversation with Roy:
We want to see audio description expand. We both agree that we want to see more, and we want to see better quality. Like we’re in total agreement around that. And I think these questions and all of these things as to how do we get there, you know, are great, that they’re absolutely great. Yes. Because we have the same goal, you know, but I just think that we need to kind of think through these things. And even when we try, whatever we try, always come back to the idea of asking that question. Does this center Blind people? are we adding value for our audience? And if we’re not scrap it,
And, what about the Emmys? (Laughs)
Roy:
What about the EMMY’s Thomas? This is great.
(Thomas and Roy’s laughs fade out)
I’ve been a part of the television Academy for maybe 10 or so years. So relatively new and part of my contribution has been as performers, peer group, executive committee member, it’s basically a fancy term for all the different peer groups that represent different roles of television.
So letting them know about audio description, and how that has such an impact on television and how it can have an even greater impact.
And so those conversations have really evolved from the first time that I was approached by my mentor and saying, hey, you should really reach out here and being able to do it in a way that went from almost a dismissive Well,
you know, there’s really nothing that we can do about this, but Roy has a real passion for it. So, you know, keep in mind that whatever Roy talks about, it’s it, it’s probably not gonna happen, take it away Roy, to most recently. This is such a valuable performance, and it’s a skill and it’s an access that brings so much to so many people beyond blind and sighted people. Let’s hear about audio description. And that was the introduction, it was basically 180 degree turnaround time, simply because the culture has changed, as well as the awareness of what audio description is, and through some real advocacy within the television Academy.
The television Academy now recognizes audio description narrators as qualifying television credits to become full-fledged members to be able to vote for the Primetime Emmy Awards. And I think the implications of that are, are few First of all, again, representation, making sure that people understand about audio description, but also, as many blind people work in audio description as voice talents, this is yet another way for them to be included in this television Academy, whereas normally the opportunities might not be there as much. So that feels really huge.
TR:
Whether we’re talking about the SOVASS, the Emmys, in each case it seems to come back to increasing the awareness of Audio Description.
Roy:
Is there an audio description effect that you and I could both agree on when it comes to making sure the value is what it is. In the approach that I’m exploring, the strategy of awareness is an essential part because right now things have been so hidden, that people aren’t even aware of it. And I think as awareness grows, that that can create that very healthy competition of how great the audio description can be.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
Yeah, so I think you’re right with the awareness. But when I look at awareness, I’m looking at awareness from the perspective of blind people, because I know a lot of blind folks who do not know about audio description. I know a lot of blind folks who think that audio description and television and movies are not for them because that’s the way it’s been all their lives. And then so steadily, and hopefully they’re starting to learn More about that. I think that audio description for students and looking at the results of how their learning and their sort of their involvement in the quote unquote mainstream, and their ability to relate to their peers, and those relationships that that happen.
I want to measure it by the relationships that employers and employees begin to have, because there’s more of that conversation. And then blind people are making more advancements, because we know that when you’re in a corporate environment, for example, you learn about new things, because you’re just friendlier with people, you start to trust someone else, and you just like to be around that person. You feel comfortable with that person. And so much of that happens from conversations about Game of Thrones, right? On Monday morning after Sunday.
I want to see blind people who are working as movie critics. Where it’s not just about the audio description, they’re really analyzing this stuff.
Blind people who are doing the work of audio description, blind people who are commissioning others to do that work.
Again, I’m centering Blind people in this.
I still consider myself relatively new to disability. But as far as I know, I have never heard of wheelchair users promoting wheelchairs in malls, because folks can just go ahead and walk there, you know, you get tired, so why not take a load off, just so we can increase the amount of wheelchairs, we can get better wheelchairs because more are using it.
I don’t think when captioning came out, and all the advocacy that they put into it, I don’t think they were talking about the curb cut effect before it happened. It just happened. I’m learning to trust the process, and we see it all the time, it will happen, right? We already know that. Yes, truck drivers are using it. And folks will find a purpose for it. But let it be that it doesn’t have to take away from our community, and it will happen. But let’s just build it up based on our needs. And then when we find something that will Oh, this would work for someone else. Absolutely cool. Bring it in, go do it. Go create it. Because we need to bring everybody in not just some people, we need to bring everybody in.
The technology that is available, and that is growing means we have more options, not less. So let’s not take away. Don’t try to take away my options. Nah, don’t do that! We just need to be included.
Roy:
And with that inclusion, is there a place at the table for blind people to be able to influence those decision makers.
When it comes to that, the impact of inclusion of society that is there not a case to be made, that the existing leaders when it comes specifically to television are a part of the television Academy that access to those decision makers right now specifically blind people to be included in that seems worthwhile.
Forget the awards.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
Okay, I like your kung fu there. (Laughs… fade out)
Yes, we need influence. And I get that. So if a way to get that influence is to be in the room. And if a way to get in the room is through being a part of an award show.
Roy:
I can hear your voice. I can hear the way you said awards talk about intention. You go on. That was great.
(Thomas & Roy Laugh)
TR in Conversation with Roy:
I mean, that part of it absolutely makes sense.
Advocacy takes place in the room. Advocacy takes place on the streets.
Roy:
Hm.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
So there’s room for all of that. And if we’re working together in the suites and the streets (laughs…) if we’re working together, and we’re coordinated and we’re all sort of, again, centering blind people.
That could be really powerful.
— Music begins, a somber piano ballad
Roy:
Thomas, if we could go back to what you said earlier about generosity in the context that you were speaking of generosity was a negative connotation in my mind, in the sense that it’s almost a condescending talking down. It’s it. generosity, and you’re caught in the context of what we were speaking about. It’s an it’s not good. It just it smells bad. I’m not sure how else to put it. What’s the opposite of that? What’s the opposite of that? Negative generosity, that almost looking down and I’m going to be generous to blind people. What’s the opposite of that? I’ve got my own opinion. I’m just curious.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
Yeah. I mean, the first word that comes to my mind when you were saying that is disrespect.
I think about it in the real world, in real life. Think about it when walking into a store. And, or wherever, and just the difference in treatment, what you know, being in a restaurant, and someone asking the person that a blind person is with if they’re sighted, what does he or she want.
As though I can’t communicate to them.
For me, it always comes back to respect because if someone is not looking at me as an equal, wherever we are, then that problem is not necessarily with me. But I do feel it. Because I’m not getting the service, whatever that may be. I’m not getting that equitable treatment. Right. It’s just not happening because of the way they view me. And it’s that that perspective that they have around blindness around disability. That is what I think the awareness that I hope I do. That if I wanted to reach out to folks to non-disabled people, it’s really in hopes that that is the message that they get that and in fact, I mean, that happens with blind people, too. It’s ableism. It’s ableism. It’s, it’s looking at disability in a certain way, as if it is less than as it’s not normal. And it is normal. It’s absolutely normal. And there’s so much that we’re missing out. Because we don’t respect and appreciate the contributions of disabled folks. And specifically, we’re talking about blind and low vision. And so, you know, if we really want to do something about it, hopefully that’s what we’re doing.
Again, that concern comes to me when we say if others become aware of audio description, for example. It’s not really helpful if they’re just looking at it. Oh, isn’t that nice? That’s great. Oh, that’s great. That’s wonderful that they do that for the blind people. That doesn’t help. It doesn’t help at all.
Roy:
Yeah. Yeah. Neck Hmm, makes it worse. Because that respect is disrespect. I get it. Yeah, that’s really, really clear.
— Music ends to brief silence
— “I Dream of Jeanie” Intro Song
TR in Conversation with Roy:
Laughing…
I’m gonna give you a genie!
Roy:
Oh boy, oh boy!
TR in Conversation with Roy:
with one Audio description wish, something that can change something about AD whatever it is good, bad, whatever? What’s your What are you going to ask of that Genie
— Music begins, an uplifting, happy Hip Hop beat.
Roy:
Parity to sighted audiences that when it comes to audio description, the experience of a blind or low vision person is as equal to a sighted person as possible, that they’re laughing at the same time that they’re able to turn it on as easily, as a sighted person, that they’re able to watch it at the same time that it’s released as a sighted person, that they’re able to go from cinema to streaming in the same way that a sighted person does, that they’re able to get the quality and excellence of the performances of the writing of the mix of the quality control that sighted people get with their track. That parody, in the sense of as equal as possible, is a part of audio description that is done. And by the way, by blind experts being paid for their value and their service. That those two things are, in are, those two things are so linked in my head that you can’t have one without the other. You can’t have the other without the one that there is no way that audio description, quality and excellence to be in parody decided audiences can happen without blind professionals being paid for their value. Those.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
Yeah. And you see, what’s cool about that is that I could wish for what I just said about respect. And I think we end up in the same place, because I think if you got your wish, I feel like my wish was granted.
Roy:
Because I don’t think that could happen without respect.
Well, and again, look how that would filter outside of audio description. Because that’s what audio description does, right? It’s not just about the film in the movie, it always applies to something bigger.
Roy:
Yeah. And that’s the model that’s like this little microcosm of audio description and how that can have a ripple effect.
TR in Conversation with Roy:
Yeah, yeah. And it does. Like, we can look at audio description and touch on. Lots of things. Look at how race, gender, all of this stuff about identity come into play.
Roy:
Is it time to as your podcast limited series is called flip the script? Can I flip the script and ask you the same Genie question
TR in Conversation with Roy:
I would really ask the genie to, to solve this problem, this issue that happens also often. And it’s just like, I just want to be rid of it that when my family and I decide just at the spur of the moment, to sit down and watch a movie, that we don’t have to go through about a half an hour because there’s no audio description. It doesn’t fail, it does not fail. And the, the feeling that I get is the same even though I play it cool. You know, and so I’ll just go ahead and watch it. I do it all the time. And they tell me No. And now the girls are older. And so they’re more bold with the way they tell me No. (Laughs…)
I can’t do anything about it anymore. But it still feels the same. And it’s not just me because they get frustrated.
I want the genie to resolve that for us.
— Audience Applause… “America, here is your winner…
TR:
So when it comes down to it…
I’m not just talking about the Reid family or even the Reid My Mind Radio family
— Crowd applause continues “Good luck both of you” America has voted… crowd applause continues in anticipation.
TR:
I don’t know what’s going to happen y’all, but it just has to be us!
– Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!
— Applause fades out.
Hide the transcript
Tags: Audio Description, Awards, Awareness, Celebrity, Conversation, EMMY's, Narration, Respect, SOVAS, Voice Over Posted in Accessibility, Advocacy, Audio, Blind Tech, Blindness, Descriptive Movies, Descriptive Television, Family, Goals, PWD, Stevie Wonder | Comments Off on Flipping the Script on Audio Description – And the Winner Is…
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Wednesday, March 24th, 2021

Lachi is a Recording Artist, Writer, producer … someone who grew up with Low Vision and now is going Blind. You may have expectations as to how someone would react to such news… You’re wrong!
Hear how the power of music and people helped Lachi expand her confidence and develop her own view of blindness and disability. And of course, there’s the music and much more!
Listen
Resources
LachiMusic.com
The Off Beat
Transcript
Show the transcript
TR:
What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family.
I hope you all are doing well.
Feeling good. feeling like things are going your way.
Me? I’m good! I’m here with y’all!
Sometimes, we know, things change up.
That’s one reason for this podcast.
Where we feature compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability.
What we learn from the experiences of others can help us draw up our own plan
Because when things seem to fall apart you don’t just scrap your plan… nah, you just go out and make yourself some bigger plans!
Check this out!
Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music
— “Not the One” Lachi, Michael Herrick
TR:
You’re listening to Not the One by Lachi and Michael Herrick. Lachi is an award nominated recording artist, writer, producer…
Lachi:
film producer, published author. I dabble in acting, I dabble in modeling. I am part of the Recording Academy advocacy Committee, which I’m very proud of. And I am also a speaker on the respectability National Women’s speaker’s bureau. I am trying to also be a YouTube star. And also do everything under the sun that anyone will allow me to do.
TR:
Allow?
As far as I can tell, I don’t think she’s waiting for anyone’s permission. Nor should she!
Lachi:
If I can give myself a really quick image description. I am an African American female. I have long hair, most of its mine, not all of it. That is curly and goes down my back with highlights. And I have big crazy, bodacious smile.
TR:
You can hear that smile when you get into a conversation with her. Even when the topic is something that most people wouldn’t smile about. Going Blind.
Lachi:
I was born legally blind. Always had to use adaptive technology. I’ve always had to sort of struggle with meeting other people that would be able to relate to me and things like that.
More recently, I did receive yet another diagnosis that is putting me on a path from low vision to no vision in a matter of years.
TR:
Her response to those who expect a different sort of reaction to the news.
Lachi:
I’ve been blind, so going from slightly blind to fully blind isn’t as traumatic for me as perhaps it might be. Or maybe I just haven’t really swallowed the pill fully. But I just been on that path already. So getting that diagnosis while it was quite a bit of a shocker. I wasn’t sitting here going, Oh my gosh, I’m gonna have to change my whole life around I mean, I already got the cane. I already got the large print, I already have sort of things that I would need to access the things I need. So the transition isn’t going to be as hard. But I will say it is a different beast. So I will acknowledge that going from low to No, is definitely a big step. And I just maybe I’m just not ready yet. Maybe I haven’t accepted it yet. And that’s where I’m at.
— Music begins and rises to a smooth beat. —
TR:
That’s where she is now.
We learn from our past, so let’s go back.
[TR in conversation with Lachi:]
Where did you grow up?
Lachi:
I tell people I grew up in the widest parts of upstate New York, the black is parts of Philly, and I Southern belt it down in North Carolina. So I’ve been all over the place. And I got all types of attitudes inside me depending on which me you get at what time and so people say, Well, you don’t have a New York accent or southern accent. I’m like, I have them all balled into one.
As much as I wish I had like childhood friends from kindergarten and this and that. I do appreciate the fact that I moved around a lot. But I have spent the last nine or so years here in New York, okay.
I’m New York to the heart but I got love for all!
TR:
Growing up with Low Vision, Lachi was the sixth of seven children.
Lachi:
The four older ones were girls. And the three younger ones were me and my two brothers. So I was really one of the boys.
We’d run around and play, we get hurt, we do whatever.
I was put into public school, I was not necessarily treated as a child with a visual impairment. Yes, we did have social workers and things like that. But I didn’t actually have the opportunity to get to know too many other people in my situation, whether it be blindness, whether it be other forms of disability.
TR:
Lachi received accommodations like extended test taking and adaptive technology such as magnifiers, CCTV’s and a monocular to see the board.
Lachi:
Because I held things really close, instead of thinking that I couldn’t see, they thought that I had maybe some other sort of other social issues or psychological issues.
It gave me sort of a complex of always trying to prove that I knew what I was doing. I was trying to prove that I was intellectually sound.
I was always sort of a creative kid. But there was never too many outlets for me to hang out with other kids and create with other kids and collaborate with other kids just because I was super shy and this and that. But I did spend a lot of time on my own just kind of drawing, writing and cultivating my musical skills really.
TR:
Being one of the youngest children in the family, Lachi benefited when her older sister lost interest in music. With access to a keyboard, Lachi found a passion.
Lachi:
I’d have all these little dolls and stuffed animals and I’d line them up, and I would make them sing all the songs I wrote. And I’d be like come on Alto section, now y’all know y’all messing up.
But they were very good listeners.
I’ve been writing and playing the piano ever since I was just, I can’t remember.
TR in Conversation with Lachi: 22:03
black families don’t necessarily always promote creativity in the arts. When I meet people who started off and seem to get that support from their family, I’m always interested in that, because back in the day, it was really like, Nah, you know, you got to go get a job And this is not going to pay…
Lachi:
You know, I mean, I did kind of glaze over a lot of that. You are, I’ll tell you right now, you are not being old school. That is definitely a real thing. Not only a black family, but most certainly in immigrant families, I identify as an immigrant family, because my parents both came over from Nigeria, in sort of the 70s 80s. And all of my older brothers and sisters are all nurses, doctors (says with over exaggeration and laughs) so I did get that as well. Part of the being blind, part of the being visually impaired, and being the only one with this visual impairment in my family did give me a little bit of leeway as the black sheep like, oh, okay, maybe she can be a little piano virtuoso, but at the same time, I was also very good at math. So I know that while my mother was very encouraging, of me just kind of doing whatever. My father was very much like, we need to cultivate this math thing you got going on, you better be you an accountant, you better be you some kind of financial, whatever.
TR:
She tried majoring in business in college for a bit.
Lachi:
I even dabbled in biology until I realized I was not going to dissect nothing. Sorry. Not with these nails.
TR:
Those nails and the artist they’re attached to had other plans – which became clear while at the University of North Carolina.
Lachi:
Every Saturday I would go down and play the piano in the dorm. And it was funny, because that began to blow up into people just always coming through Saturday evenings waiting for the piano girl to come and play the piano. It started turning into frat boys coming back from parties, or people going on dates kind of just hanging in lounging in the common area listening to me play the piano, and it really blew up in a major way.
It really did start out with me just playing. And then a friend or two would be like, hey, do you know that one song? Or do you know this and that, and then just got to a point where people are just yelling out Freebird.
TR in Conversation with Lachi:
Now now you just said which dorm you were in by the way. (
— Lachi and TR share a hearty laugh!
TR:
These Saturday night dorm performances helped increased more than Lachi’s popularity.
I started becoming more confident. Because I was sharing my talent with other people and people were going, Wow, you’re good at something. And I was like, Oh, look, I am and other people are telling me I am. I started getting that outside validation. I went to a counselor, and I was like I really want to pursue music. What do I do? And he was just like, moved to New York. You supposed to tell me to take like music theory classes or something. So I did!
TR:
Move to New York that is!
Arriving on bus in the big city, you know, sky scrapers and everythang! Her first stop.
Lachi:
I went to NYU and that’s where I started to meet some great guys out in things like Scoring for film, and things like that.
So I did get to meet a bunch of really great people. But when I say I really got into collaborating, was when I decided, look, I want to put a band together, I want to put some songwriters together. And so I really did just go out there and just start meeting people. Like it was amazing how much I just opened up as soon as I moved to the city, and would just be able to go up to people and go, hey, let’s you and me work together. And, and things began to kind of blossom.
TR in Conversation with Lachi: 17:05
You started off earlier, though, by saying you were shy. What’s the relationship between being shy? And then that creative spirit? Like, was that just that strong? Or was there a process? Because I think that, people adjusting to blindness, that could make somebody shy.
Lachi:
Yeah!
Whether you are born visually impaired, or whether you lose it later in life. And you don’t know other people in your space, you don’t know other people in your situation, you feel different, you feel misunderstood, you kind of feel alone
, you feel like you can’t really relate to others,
no matter how good people are trying to be to you, no matter how inclusive and everything, if they’re not really similar to your story,
the first place you go is well, you don’t really get it. And so you kind of coop up. And so that’s kind of where I was, like I did have friends, I did have a lot of support at home. And people you know, I was bullied, like everybody’s bullied. And I have some pretty crazy bully stories. But I can’t just sit here and complain too much. I did have some love. And regardless I was still putting myself in a shell. And that shell just could not stick when it came to me creating music. No matter how hard I tried to box it in, it brought me out
I was playing the piano in college for myself.
TR:
It’s so important to have something we enjoy doing. We’ll do it more and therefore, we get better. The result, confidence!
Now add the power that comes from meeting other people with disabilities.
I’m especially talking about those you can relate to. Those who share your interests.
For Lachi, it started with Visions.
Visions Center on Blindness that is…
Lachi:
It’s a camp. So you do all sorts of different activities, not just learning technology. I got to meet a bunch of people. Myself, being a musician, it was great to meet other musicians with blindness. And a lot came out of that.
TR:
Like the chance to create.
Lachi:
He played guitar. We were collaborating so much together. We decided we were just going to go to South by Southwest.
TR:
That’s the annual music , film and cultural festival that serves as a way of really introducing new artists to both fans and executives.
Lachi:
Right before we left, I ended up writing to a bunch of labels to be like, Hey, we’re going to South by Southwest, you should check out our show. Don’t ask how I got your email just come through. (Laughing…) And of course, I got no responses. But we went to South by Southwest, we played a few bars, it was a lot of fun. And funnily enough, at one of the shows we did, some guy came up to me and was like, I really loved what you guys just did, even though it was just vocals and guitar. Here’s my card. Call me when you get back to New York.
It turns out he was an A & R for a label under EMI. And it was just amazing. We had our meetings, we had another meeting, we had a third meeting, and then we eventually got signed.
TR:
In addition to being an artist, Lachi’s a producer with her own studio.
Lachi:
I am a Pro Tools girl. I use sort of a bunch of Antares plugins. I am a girl that has my computer, right at the edge of that desk, and I am two inches away from my screen. And it’s so funny because people will come in of all sorts. I mean, people have high celebrity to just independent artists will come into my studio, and the first thing they think is, uh, okay, let’s see how this goes.
— “Go”, Lachi
Lachi:
Couple years ago, when I first started really opening up my studio to other people, they would come in and then they would be a little alarmed.
I did get to a point where I did preface it with people. As soon as they came to my studio, I’d be like look I’m just going to tell you right now, I’m visually impaired and legally blind. But you came here because you heard my samples.
I will be all up in the screen, but I do use all shortcuts. Everything is shortcuts shortcut shortcut shortcut.
TR:
She makes it work for her. It’s not about the process, rather, it’s all about the art she’s making.
Lachi:
Ever since 2016, you’re going to get EDM, you’re going to get dance, you’re going to get trance, you’re going to get pop dance, you’re going to get things of that nature. But if you start listening to some of my older music, you’re going to get sort of more general pop, or pop rock.
As I got more confident, my music gets more confident, my messages get more confident. I don’t know, I really started to enjoy the whole, like, badass female sort of perspective. And I started to identify that way. And so my music kind of takes that journey.
TR:
I was curious if Lachi had ideas on how she would adapt to non visually making music. Yet, I was hesitant to ask because when she first brought up her diagnosis, she admitted that she wasn’t giving it too much thought. She later added that the gradual nature of the loss may also be a factor.
Lachi:
I don’t even notice it until I, you know, go into my doctor every six months, and he’s like, dang, girl, you really can’t see the big E.
TR:
The actual sight loss is gradual. Some other things become apparent when it’s gone.
Lachi:
it’s not really something that has hit my, my inner realm. I can’t necessarily tell you why. But I am sitting here trying to, you know, trying to psychologically figure that out myself, I actually think that that’s a very interesting thing about myself that I’m not freaking out about it. But I’m looking at it from a business perspective, instead of from a personal perspective.
TR in Conversation with Lachi:
And you know, you can do both.
All I guess I really want to tell you is that you know, you do your thing. But I want you to know that you have lots of options.
Right? That’s what I want you to know. You have lots of options.
You gone be fine!
TR:
Honestly, I think Lachi already knows that. Meeting a variety of people with all different degrees of blindness and disability ever since attending the camp in upstate New York.
But some things are relatively new.
Lachi:
I decided to incorporate my vision loss and my need for accessibility into my career path.
TR:
That includes her work with the Recording Academy advocacy committee.
Lachi:
I am putting together a number of inclusion and accessibility talks with the Grammys.
Anytime I’m in front of anybody from the board membership or anybody from any of these committees, I am talking about inclusion, I am talking about accessibility, and my voice is getting heard.
We’re talking a lot about Hollywood inclusion, we’re not really talking enough about music inclusion. And so I’m getting in front of these boards and talking. And they are coming to me and going, you know what, let’s go ahead and have you do some panels Lachi, you’re the expert on this.
TR:
Be on the lookout for some panel discussions around accessibility and inclusion in the music industry.
Lachi:
another thing that I wanted to mention, my manager Ben price of harbor side management, got an amazing grant from the UK Arts Council to do a huge sort of study slash article on music and its future when it comes to disabilities.
He’s out there having some great conversations with people when it comes to not just showcasing artists with disabilities, but also, with the accessibility of venues.
When we start opening up the city, when we start opening up the nation in the world. This is something we need if we’re starting from ground zero. If you’re just reopening, why don’t you add that ramp, add that handle, add that bar, do what you got to do to make your space accessible, because guess what? 2021 and 2022 is going to be Lachi out here calling you out!
TR:
She’s currently building a platform that could provide the space to amplify these issues and more. It’s on YouTube and it’s called The Off Beat.
— The Off Beat promo
Lachi:
I am a quirky little offbeat musician and I’m also just an offbeat person.
it’s going to be a series that Chronicles me, a black girl going blind, just trying to keep up with the sort of fabulous lifestyle.
Everything from, makeup, skincare and wardrobe, to Little things like learning how to fold a shirt to just getting my taxes right to even trying to figure out how to make a YouTube series like let’s be real meta and learn that together.
TR:
She’s partnering up with brands who want to support her message.
Lachi:
I’m also really interested in speaking with influencers and top folks in not only the blind space, but in the disability space in general. And even other margins like transgender, LGBTQ non binary. Just kind of calling on names in that space, to ask them how they handle different transitions as well.
I’m excited to share it with you, and anyone who will listen, that we are going on this journey, and that we are doing it from my perspective of I think it’s important for me to mention that is from the perspective of a black woman losing her vision and not just have a woman losing her vision.
— “We’re Not Done… Check this Out” From “You Must Learn” Boogie Down productions
— “Bigger Plans”, Lachi
TR:
And just when you thought it was over, you learn about her “Bigger Plans” …
Lachi:
That is actually the song where we are putting out our AD version of the music video that we put together. And so we’re very excited about that.
TR:
In the meantime…
Lachi:
We put this music video together with that song. We ended up getting backed by a company that does diversity styling, and
we shot the video and the company’s called diversity styling. We ended up shooting it in a space called positive exposure, which is a gallery that only showcases art from underrepresented groups. In the video, they had a bunch of pictures hanging from students with different disabilities. And the song as you can see, was written by a woman with a disability and the video was produced and directed by myself. And the diversity stylings woman, and then the star of the video is Zazell, gosh, she’s good!
She ended up sort of dancing in the video, and she starts out with a cane. And she’s unsure then she throws the cane away, and she starts dancing, and it’s so empowering. But by the end of the video, she actually picks the cane back up and continues to dance with it. Because that’s that’s her whole her.
The whole video from top to bottom is just made by folks with disabilities. And we’ve been entering it into all sorts of contests and all sorts of things.
We just literally won Best Music Video at the International Film forum New York. New York, Neil gallery.
TR:
We all need some wins every now and then, don’t we?
Lachi:
I’m always doing these little radio interviews, whatever, this little thing here, this little thing there. This is probably one of my favorites. Look we’re sitting here talking man. I’m not being rushed. We’re not trying to hurry up and plug something. I don’t have like, you know, my show notes. Like, let me make sure I hit this. I can tell that we are having an A and B conversation. It’s not just you reading a quick question and then just kind of scrolling through something while I’m trying to insert it.
TR in Conversation with Lachi:
Yeah. Definitely.
Lachi:
I really appreciate your perspective. I really love this show. When Ben sent me the link. I was like, Oh, God, I gotta get on this show. As I really love it, and everything that you come through and say up in the club is always just so insightful. So I just did want to throw that out to you as well.
TR:
Nah, it’s still Covid out here. Lachi and I haven’t popped bottles in the club just yet! She’s talking about Club House.
The audio only social gathering space.
I’m an Admin with the 15 percent Club, which is all about disability – as in 15 percent of the world’s population has a disability.
Lachi moderates a room on Thursday’s called The Blind Side. It’s poppin! All sorts of conversations around blindness. My personal favorite so far was the room highlighting Blind women. There were plenty of proud Blind women who know they are all that! That’s something I support!
TR in Conversation with Lachi:
I appreciate that. But this is about you. This is all about you. So you need to understand that once you come on Reid My Mind Radio. I need to tell you Lachi you are now an official member of the Reid My Mind Radio family.
— Official
— Airhorns!
Lachi:
Oh my god
I love it!
TR:
You can find Lachi on all social media at LachiMusic. If you’re on Club House don’t forget to check her out on Thursday’s. I might be working the door, but if I’m not let her know you’re part of the Reid My Mind
radio Family and I’m sure you’ll get the VIP treatment!
(Visually Impaired Player!)
Of course, go on over and follow Lachi’s YouTube series, The Off Beat and show your love!
If you like what you hear, please follow this podcast where ever you like to listen. We outchere!
Don’t forget we have transcripts and links over at ReidMyMind.com. If you’ve been rocking with me, you know how this goes, but some don’t… I’m gonna do it real slow!
that’s R to the E I D…
(“D, and that’s me in the place to be!” Slick Rick)
Like my last name.
— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!
Hide the transcript
Tags: Blind, College, Confidence, Low Vision, Music, Nigeria, Piano, pro Tools, Production, SxSW, YouTube Posted in Access Technology, Accessibility, Advocacy, African American, Audio, Blind Tech, Blindness, Family, Media, PWD, Visually Impaired | Comments Off on Lachi: Building Bigger Plans for Going Blind
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Wednesday, March 10th, 2021
There is power in conversation. A real friend can not only make you feel better by listening, but every now and then, they say something that affects you. Some times it lifts you up. other times it may not feel so good, but it’s meant to empower. Occasionally, it can even spark an idea.
Pramit Bhargava, is the founder of an Android app called Louie. Today, we explore his personal adjustment to blindness story. He shares an honest look into his experience with vision loss and how his view of blindness and disability has dramatically changed over the years.
And of course, there’s Louie!
Listen
Resources
Transcript
[show_more more=”Show the transcript” less=”Hide the transcript”]
“Friends” Whodini
“Friends! How many of us have them? Friends! Before we go any further…”
— Instrumental continues
TR:
Allow me to welcome you back to the podcast.
My name is Thomas Reid. I’ll be your host on this journey. even better, I hope I can be your friend.
See on this podcast, this podcast right here, we’re all about featuring compelling people impacted by all degrees of Blindness and disability.
And one of my core beliefs as a person adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult is that the people we meet along our journey who have been traveling that path before us can be really important to helping us find our own way.
“Friends.”
Friends come in all shapes sizes and colors. Today, we even have virtual friends… You think you know what I’m talking about but let’s find out!
“Friends!”
Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music
— Audio of Louie sample from YouTube…
TR:
You’re listening to a sample of an app called Louie. It’s a virtual friend who can assist you in completing tasks within apps like YouTube, What’s APP, Uber and more.
We’ll get more into that later.
Right now, I want to share the story of how it came to be, which like the app, is really all about being of assistance to those adjusting to vision loss.
pramit:
I’m Pramit Bhargava, I’m the Founder of an app called Louie Voice Control for Visually Impaired people like us!
my life has been half with vision half visually impaired. I am by education a computer engineer. And then I went in for MBA. I had normal vision. So I was just like a regular guy.
TR:
A regular guy who attended both the India Institute of Technology and the India Institute of Management where he received his MBA.
Think M.I.T!
After graduating, well, he entered that race.
Pramit:
Running running to go up the corporate ladder. I was working like crazy. And with these global companies, you had to keep all kinds of hours giving the time difference.
I was in marketing, and then I moved on to managing businesses. For example, for quest diagnostics, I set up a couple of businesses in India. And life was all about, you know, moving up the corporate ladder and running and running.
TR:
He was about 30, living a very active lifestyle which included playing Squash. He began experiencing rheumatic joint pain.
Pramit:
it just came out of the blue, no family history, and they couldn’t diagnose it. So they put me on what we know as hydrochloriquine.
— Audio clips of Hydro chloroquine & Covid19
Pramit:
The good thing was that I could still get some correction. So I could still continue to work with these companies.
But then all along my vision was dropping and I kept sort of readjusting. I was also moving into a senior level position. So a lot of my work therefore involved strategy, thinking through problems, leading teams.
Emails, PowerPoints, and excel sheets are all there. The capabilities that I was leveraging, were really the strategy thinking, and execution, team leadership, so not so much, looking at the screen all the time.
TR:
There’s often discussion around when and how to disclose a disability to a prospective employer. Pramit opted for transparency.
Pramit:
I think the reason was very simple, because my vision was so bad they would have seen it
So I had a very clear plan of action. I would be upfront.
TR:
Not only did he disclose his disability, but pramit even suggested that hiring managers take some additional time to be sure of their decision to hire him.
Occasionally there were empathetic people in power, but the response he received let him know decisions were being made based on his skill set.
Pramit:
Look, it doesn’t matter. Because we want a certain skill set. We want your mind to work your brain to work, it doesn’t matter. Yes, they had expectations of some very basic,
I should be able to manage my emails, I should be able to read some stuff. they did have those expectations.
I think the fact that I was very upfront, and I didn’t want to sign on the dotted line, so to say, and I wanted them to think about it, , before we took the next step.
A couple of them in fact, asked me to go for eye test, , and of course, the eye test results. Were not great or anything, but at least , the whole thing was very transparent. It just knocked off the pressure.
TR:
Well at least external pressure.
We want to believe in the idea that we’re judged based on our skills. A meritocracy, but the statistics tell me that’s probably not a common experience for most people.
Remember, Pramit graduated from the top technical and business schools in India.
— Audio transition changing tone …
Pramit:
there came a time. Suddenly, I couldn’t read anything at all. I couldn’t make out any Excel sheets, PowerPoints.
And, , because I had that little vision, I wasn’t really using any of the technologies, I wasn’t using a screen reader,.
So the mind said oh, I don’t need it, I can manage it.
TR:
Over a 12 year period as his vision changed, his adaptations did not.
Pramit:
I hit that point where suddenly my confidence was gone.
In my mind the devil saying, I can’t do this, I can’t do that. If I can’t do this, how will I be able to do a job like this?
TR:
It wasn’t anything external, in fact, Pramit continued to get job offers.
Pramit:
I was sort of just sitting at home two and a half, three years doing nothing.
Every time I would get offers, , for similar positions, and something inside me will tell me no, no, no, , let me not make a mess of it, I won’t be able to do it.
I was getting very, very dependent for simple things.
I mean, even to answer the phone, , I had to ask somebody, okay, Who’s calling? Or if I had to dial somebody on a touchscreen.
TR:
Pramit was living with decreasing Low Vision for about 12 years. Not passing as sighted, but also not working as Blind
At first glance, it might appear as if he were in a really good situation. He had a high level career, management was supportive, he had resources including assistants. So I had to ask in order to make it clear.
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 13:49
What made you lose your confidence?
Pramit
(Long pause… followed by a slight laugh)
I think See, I think combination of two things if honestly, if you asked me, I think a I was in that phase of life where I was trying to run, run and like I said, go up the corporate ladder. So let’s say if there was a goal, if at that time somebody had asked me, what is that one thing you want to achieve in life? I would have said, Okay, go up the corporate ladder, become a CEO, become a CEO of a bigger company. So that was one. Sometimes the way I almost think of it was that the higher you are flying, the bigger is the fall. (Laughs)
It’s A – about my aspirations and just not knowing what I should be doing next with life.
TR:
pramit wasn’t receiving negative feedback from his peers or management.
Pramit:
You know, that you are hitting that point where performing to that level is going to be difficult, just struggling for everything struggling to present struggling to analyze.
For example, let’s say you look at a trend on an Excel sheet. Now if you can see it, the numbers start speaking a story. When you try and do it with a screen reader cell buy cell buy cell, sometimes that story may get lost. And because I was not even using a screen reader. (Chuckles) So imagine, now, I’m not seeing anything, and suddenly those numbers are coming. I think a combination of, I was trying to fly high. My aspirations, the fact that I was not preparing myself for that, gradually I could have, but I didn’t.
That loss of confidence was not because of anybody telling me, it was all inside me all in my mind.
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 17:32
I definitely understand, and I just wanted to kind of pull that out, because I think it’s an important piece. So it’s like, you have your own standards. And if you’re not meeting your standards, well, that starts to impact you. It’s not always external. And so that’s why I wanted to drag that out a little bit from you.
Pramit:
Yeah, yeah! Absolutely!
In fact, If I can Thomas add to that, sometimes what happens We process somebody as low vision, or no vision as saying, oh, he cannot see. But I think important thing is what is going on in that person’s mind. Right, and how do we process it? How do we deal with that condition? I think that’s the bottom line. And that’s where, you know, I think my biggest whatever bottleneck was,
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 18:32
My teacher that I always go back to he used to say, everything starts with the thought.
Pramit:
Yes!
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
How is blindness perceived from your perspective in India? Because in a sense you were very privileged, would you classify yourself as that?
Pramit:
absolutely no doubt. I mean, the fact that I had vision, the fact that I had that kind of education and the kind of experience Yeah, certainly.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
What are the opportunities for others who may not have been or may not be as privileged?
Pramit:
I’ll give you a personal angle to this and I think it’s really important Right. Rather than saying how others would perceive, I can talk about how I used to look at blind when I had normal vision, I think it’s very important.
Honestly, I never interacted with somebody who’s blind. It’s not that I didn’t see them on the road. Because typically I’ll see them with a stick, and, you know, somehow managing or whatever, you know, people helping them, I just had zero empathy for blind people, you know, I’m just being very, very truthful on this.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
I appreciate it.
TR:
He admits, he had tunnel vision – focusing only on his goal of making his way up that corporate ladder.
Pramit:
Now, if I were to, let’s say, Now, extrapolated to a broader world in India, I would say that there are people of all kinds, I think, fortunately, I think there’ll be fewer people like me, who will have no empathy.
I think in India, also on top of it, I think the facilities, you know, for example, facilities for the visually impaired are fairly limited. Now, now that consciousness is going up. Like for example, now, all metro stations in India are designed for visually impaired, they have a lot of help available, right. There are tracks specially for them, you know, which they can follow. So, now, things are changing, but, there is definitely a perception issue.
TR:
And one of the best ways to change those perceptions?
Pramit:
I started interacting only when I started developing the app, Louis voice until such time, would you believe it, I have not had a real interaction. When I say real interaction, I may have seen somebody, I may have exchanged a word or two. But you know, that heart to heart one on one conversation, I, you know, till about, I would say two years back, I had not met a single visually impaired person in that sense. I was just trying to solve my own problems. I was just doing things on my own.
— Audio “Gladiator”
Pramit:
I started realizing that look, you know, just living for personal gain and living selfishly the way I had been all along. You know, it’s not something that’s great. Because I was very transactional, everything was about what is the benefit for me. You know, there’s nothing called you know, selflessly doing something. Now I’ve been consciously trying to change it.
TR:
Pramit’s self discovery didn’t begin with the app.
Pramit:
I think it’s a broader change which happened 15 years back now.
I was doing well in my career.
All of a sudden, these thoughts started coming into my mind, where am I running? What am I doing? Why, why am I here on earth? What is my purpose in life? I mean, it just came out of nowhere.
TR:
That inner voice may have always existed. Maybe the volume is low at first, but at some point it becomes noticeable.
Pramit:
Of course, I ignored it. You know, I kept ignoring it. I think it was only about maybe six, seven years back that I landed up, you know, at a meditation center.
TR:
I know, he doesn’t seem like a meditation center kind of guy.
Pramit:
There is so much of what happens when you’re an engineer, and an MBA from a top Institute. I was so left brain that I thought I knew everything in the world. That’s also part of that ego.
so I had gone to meet a friend who is like me, you know, similar career. So you know, again, you know, and he himself same materialistic, same same kind of thing. just happened over dinner, I just asked his wife tell me some good books.
I had just got introduced to audiobooks, by the way. So for years, I had not read anything.
Initially, of course, I started with some business books and so on.
so and then she just said, okay, read this book and nothing else.
The title sounded interesting, because I would have read a lot of autobiographies of business leaders, but not a yogi. I had zero interest in anything about Yogi’s or spirituality or religion.
TR:
That’s Autobiography of a Yogi
(available on Audible & BARD from the National Library Service for the Blind and print Disabled in the US.
Pramit:
I read the book, then there was this a certain meditation technique in that, you know, so I have just feared having read the book that my life will go to waste. If I don’t do that, you know, don’t learn that. And then accidentally, I had gone to a place to buy a book.
TR:
A book on that form of meditation.
While in the bookstore, he noticed a large hall . He asked about it.
Pramit:
They said, We teach this meditation.
I just landed up there by accident. So this is like all coincidences.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
No, that’s not coincidence.
Pramit:
Yeah, but I mean, it just looks like that now,
Ever since I came onto the path , I can well appreciate a lot of these things. I’m not doing it. It’s really a lot of you know, higher forces.
TR:
No matter what you believe in, the outcome and resulting actions should speak for themselves.
Pramit:
today, if I’m self-critical, it’s only because I am able to now assess myself because I can pull out and I can assess how big a jerk I was. And let’s say up to this time, and even now, sometimes, so I think which is good, that kind of self-assessment, and which happened only because I got onto this path.
TR:
Before he arrived on his current path, he admits trying other routes with alternative destinations.
Pramit:
I wanted to go back to the same life, the same kind of jobs.
TR:
But his confidence for that life was gone.
Then, he had a beer. But before you get excited, this is not an excuse for you to do the same. See, it’s not about what he was drinking. It’s about the friends he was drinking with.
Pramit:
One of them asked me a very, very pointed question.
He said, look, you are still living in the past, you’re still chasing what you used to do earlier. He said, Look inside and tell me, what is it that you really want to do now?
That suddenly changed my position, you know, and that and then I opened up? I said, No, yeah, you’re right, you know, all that I’m not interested, you know, I really want to do this. And I actually had something, you know, I could actually tell them, but I was trying to keep it down.
TR:
Identifying the problem is one thing, but understanding why can really be helpful.
Pramit:
We are leading our lives based on what others around us think. Therefor you want to just do the acceptable thing.
Slowly I think I started accepting the fact that look, I don’t need to care whether somebody likes it or doesn’t like it. This is what I want to do.
TR:
Others like family, friends or colleagues in many instances.
But remember that beer with friends earlier?
— “Friends” Whodini!
Pramit:
Then we had another round, In fact, with a bigger set of friends, they called up more people. By that time, I had greater granularity, I said, Okay, this is what I really want to do. And then ideas started flowing. Nobody was being judgmental, nobody was trying to say, Oh, this is bad, this is good. They said, Okay, if this is what you want to do, let’s see how we can help.
TR:
Pramit began consulting, but on his terms.
Pramit:
Some of these guys then got me contacts. And then basically what I did was that rather than doing regular jobs, I said, I’ll go into consulting, but a very different way.
I will do it one day, two day, three day, whatever I feel comfortable with, I will go work inside a company, work with their team drive their team, and I will not give them a consultant’s report, but I will actually deliver for them, whatever results or whatever targets that they had in mind.
I was lucky because some of these guys were connected, they put me in touch with people
I started my first consulting work within 10 days. My confidence was back.
I knew that I am 95% as effective as I was earlier. And doesn’t matter because I was using screen reader effectively. And I mean, there were people around so once in a while, I couldn’t see an image so I can ask them. Okay, what is this image? Just tell me, right? I mean, you have to take help whenever you need to. Yeah, but then I was independent.
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 39:18
Wow, wow. How good did that feel?
Pramit:
See, it’s like a bird released out of a cage. And that cage was created by me by my mind around me, nobody else. I mean, I cannot blame anybody else. for it. It’s only you know, how my mind was processing it.
TR:
The impact of all that, went beyond work. He began traveling on the metro subway – which even further enhanced his confidence.
Enjoying his new found freedom and career, , pramit approached a potential client, the managing director of a large Venture Capital firm.
Pramit:
he knew that I am visually impaired. So he was very keen. He asked me, in fact, a lot of questions about what apps you’re using, how are they? Do they do the task for you? Where is the gap? And you know, it was almost like, you know, trying to assess a market? Yeah. And at the end of it, he said, Look, forget consulting, you are just wasting away your life.
Let’s build apps for visually impaired.
He said, I can see because I’ve been tracking this market for a while, and I have some personal interests. He was cited.
TR:
But Pramit was comfortably consulting and even booked some long term projects. Why leave that?
Pramit:
I had gone to meet an uncle who’s like, you know, very wise and old. He said something, he said, Look, if I look at it from a material perspective, I will tell you do not do the startup because it’s very risky right now, you are doing well in consulting stick to that. But he said at the same time, I will say one thing, there are very, very few people in the world who would leverage their disability, to do something that can help others with similar disability. He said, If you can do that, you know, and he said, I wouldn’t advise you, if you can do that. I mean, that’s something.
TR:
That really resonated with him.
Pramit:
Way back in 2009, early 2009, when suddenly, I joined quest diagnostics, and my blood sugar levels turned out to be very high, and had a family history of diabetics, I lost my father because of diabetes complications. And I knew that, you know, going on to insulin doesn’t really help because I’d seen him taking insulin injections, two times a day, from childhood. Something clicked and I just changed my lifestyle. And let me tell you, because I was on this whole corporate ladder trip,
I was leading a really bad lifestyle, lot of stress, very little sleeping a lot of junk food, because junk food gives you that instant energy, it makes you feel, you know, you got energy back and you’re you know, in control. Yeah. And I was overweight, obese, you know, not overweight. So I lost something like 20 kg.
TR:
About 44 pounds.
He shared his progress on YouTube ad free, by the way and he says he’s still contacted by people around the world in regards to his journey with Diabetes and weight loss.
Reframing the idea of developing apps from this perspective made a difference.
Pramit:
When I look at all my senior positions back then it doesn’t give me joy, honestly, you know, so that was when I said, Okay, I’m ready to do this startup.
It’s very easy to criticize the tools that are available around us, you may say, Oh, this is not good. This is not bad. This app doesn’t work. You know, it doesn’t work here. This gentleman who was in the venture capital company he said, Look, I’ve heard enough about this not being good, that not being good. Tell me what is good. define it for me. So next week, I want to see what is good.
TR:
Then one evening after hanging out with a friend, Pramit began to arrange for an Uber when his friend said something.
Pramit:
He said give me your smartphone. And let me book it for you.
There were all these options. I gave him a destination. I would say take this ride, take this, there’s so much fare this fine. I’ll pay by this method, and confirm and calling. So you know, that whole experience was so beautiful. What if I could create a virtual friend right there on the phone screen, which will do exactly similar kind of continuous conversation with me. It will do everything within an app, because my friend could have done anything, you know, including cancellation, including messaging. And that is how the thought for Louie was born
TR:
Concept in mind, it was time to test the effectiveness of both Siri and Google Assistant. What he realized is that what would become known as Louie, came out of a very specific idea.
Pramit
I can build something which can be just tailor made for a visually impaired, tailor made for a blind. Louie is keeping a blind person in mind. I think that’s the difference.
TR:
Exactly how to do that required answering a few questions.
Pramit:
Can I give just voice commands to Louie , can I control my favorite apps or key features on the phone?
Just by my voice commands and with the thought that I should be able to do each and everything and being in control all the time?
I think that was very important.
TR:
That constant control is crucial. You want to be assured that whenever you need to access the app whether for information or to provide detail it’s available.
Whether ordering an Uber while out on the town, contacting a friend via What’s APp or just chillin’ on your couch surfing YouTube.
Pramit:
You can manage your contact, edit, delete block so on, everything with just voice commands. You can call, text messaging and there’s a whole series of apps and pain points of visually impaired that we are working on.
Messenger on Facebook, Google search, basically being able to navigate around in a browser, being able to read articles, being able to read documents. Even simple things like these, like, for example, some of the visually impaired even have a problem receiving their calls, picking up their calls, disconnecting their call.
What I realized the aspirations of a visually impaired are no different from that of a sighted.
These two gentlemen said, Oh, food ordering, why don’t you do food ordering? E-commerce for example and with that two way continuous interaction which the voice assistant’s don’t provide.
TR:
Pramit believes Louie can do it.
— “You can do it Louie” —
In fact, others do too. Which is why they formed the company Visio Apps.
Pramit:
Currently, we have investors, both in India, as well as USA. And I think very importantly, I think one of our investors, which I think was really important for us, he was the Google India and Southeast Asia head. And he was in Google, at that time, when he invested in the company. He just felt that look, this is something great, I really want to be a part of. So I think that has really helped.
We have 14 people in the team. Apart from me, there are three more visually impaired, there are five people in technology who are cited. People in marketing. Visually impaired people are contributing significantly, both in testing as well as user experience.
It’s a small team, we have employee stock option plans, we’re all passionate about this cause.
TR:
Since the pandemic the team has been working remotely and it looks like that will continue.
Which means there are opportunities for developers worldwide. In fact, Pramit is interested in hearing from Blind developers especially those working in IOS and Java.
You’re probably already recognizing ways that this sort of an app can go beyond the Blind community which is great. But it’s Pramit’s response to that which really sums up the power of Louie to me.
Pramit:
I’m very clear that the focus will always be the use case of a blind person. And with the assumption that look, if it works for somebody who cannot see the screen, it should work, theoretically for anybody else.
TR:
I’ll have all the links to Louie and how to reach Pramit on this episodes blog post over on ReidMyMind.com.
Again, Louie is for Android users only right now, therefore understand I have not used this myself.
But I’m all about friends helping friends get through a challenging situation. Especially when we’re centering that Blind experience.
Pramit:
I’m everyday interacting with users, I like to speak to them. So my phone number, my WhatsApp number, you know, my email is like, freely available. to anybody, and I do get calls or you know, just out of the blue from a whole lot of visually impaired because that really helps.
Just talking to people one on one, understanding the challenges with the app. I’m just trying to make it better and better.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
So you’re telling me the CEO is the customer service?
Pramit:
Laughs… yes!
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
I officially welcome you into the Reid My Mind Radio family, Sir.
Your story is one that I think would be helpful for people adjusting to vision loss. I salute you in terms of where you’ve been, and
Pramit 1:13:59
no, no, not really. No, I’ve been a jerk I’ve been, as you can see,
If my experience can help I look at it that way.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
But I say that because I don’t think anybody can throw stones because we all have done something. But we all don’t admit it. So I’m not saluting your jerkiness, right? I’m saluting your openness and you sharing that that’s what I’m saluting and the fact that you recognize it. When I became blind and I became aware of inaccessible websites and whatnot. And I said to myself, Oh, my goodness, I built an inaccessible website before, because I didn’t know I didn’t know. So now I know. So it’s really like when you know, it really matters what you do, then. You know what I mean?
Pramit:
absolutely.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
That’s what I salute, sir.
TR:
Our latest addition to the Reid My Mind Radio family just provided an incredible amount of insight and value to this conversation of adjusting to blindness and disability.
It’s worth reviewing and truly sitting with and thinking about the experiences he shared.
If you know of someone right now who is in the midst of such an adjustment, reach out and tell them about this episode, tell them about Louie.
Of course let them know they can subscribe to Reid My Mind Radio wherever they get podcasts!
Transcripts & more are over at ReidMyMind.com.
Now be a friend and say that with me…
R, to the E I D!
(Audio: “D and that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick)
Like my last name.
Audio: Reid My Mind Outro
Peace!
[/show_more]
Tags: Adaptations, Adjusting, Autobiography of A Yogi, Blind, Disability, Empathy, Engineer, India, Louie, Low Vision Posted in Access Technology, Accessibility, Audio, Blind Tech, Blindness, Productivity | Comments Off on The Power of Friends Talking: Pramit Bhargava, Louie and More
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Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020

2019 Holman Prize winner, Dr. Mona Minkara along with her production team from Planes Trains & Canes. join me to talk about the documentary series. The show which is available on YouTube follows Mona as she travels alone to five different cities around the world using only public transportation.
The series highlights many of the challenges those with vision loss experience on a daily basis. If you pay close attention you even learn some useful skills for managing these experiences. For Mona the trip was about independence, freedom and more.
The captain has turned on the fasten seatbelts sign so hit play and get ready for take off!
Listen
Resources
Transcript
Show the transcript
TR:
Hey Y’all.
I try to produce this podcast several weeks in advance of the release. I don’t always have as much lead time as I’d like.
In this particular case, I did.
With the latest police murder of George Floyd and the world wide protest that followed, I don’t feel comfortable releasing an episode without acknowledging this senseless and shameful killing.
I love producing this podcast and I truly think what you’re about to hear is a great episode,
but as a Black man I can’t help but feel like my focus should be on fighting for change. Truth is though, it’s not just Black people who should be fighting.
It’s all of our responsibility and if I’m being honest, I think the burden should be less on the Black community.
If you have the urge to inform me that there are white people fighting, please don’t. I know that. I’d ask you to consider your own role as I’m trying to figure out mine.
Not acknowledging the pain just felt like it would add even more.
Rest in Peace & Power to Mr. George Floyd and the rest of those murdered by the Police.
Thank you Reid My Mind Radio Family and I hope you understand why that was necessary.
Now, let’s shift gears and get into what I think is a goodie!
Audio: Sounds of airport fades into the inside of a plane.
From the planes PA System…
Flight Attendant:
Good day passengers.
Welcome aboard flight 99 to a better place!
Inflight service will be coming around soon with snacks!
In the meantime, please sit back, relax and enjoy your trip.
We now have a message from the captain.
From the planes PA System:
Music begins…
TR:
What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family!
Welcome aboard the podcast bringing you compelling people impacted by all degrees of vision loss from low vision to total blindness.
Every now and then, when inspired, I bring you stories from my own experience as a man adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult.
My name is Thomas Reid and I’m not only your pilot, but I’m traveling on this journey with you.
Now if you are new to blindness and have some reservations about this flight I can tell you the ground control has approved us for takeoff. the forecasts a mix of clear skies with some possible thunderstorms. We are expected to hit a bit of turbulence along the way, but don’t worry, I got you!
Wheels up baby, let’s go!
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Intro
TR:
In 2017 & 18 , this podcast featured profiles of each of the Holman Prize winners. If you haven’t checked out those episodes I definitely want to encourage you to go back and give them a listen.
While I decided not to produce Holman prize episodes in 2019, early this year, I came across one of the 2019 winners, Dr. Mona Minkara. She’s a Bio Engineering professor at North Eastern University and the host and producer of Planes, Trains and Canes.
MM:
Which is a documentary series on YouTube showing me traveling to five different cities around the world and using only public transportation on my own.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
So the first show that I started to watch, that was your first one when you were headed out of Boston to and going to South Africa. I’m trying to figure out, what is this feeling that I have. I said wow, I think this is a little anxiety. I’m like wow, this is good though, this is really good.
My podcast, I really like to reach out to those who are adjusting to being Blind. That’s my target audience. And so I’m thinking they’re going to feel what I feel but for different reasons. I travel independently, not necessarily like you’re doing. I’m watching because I thought about doing some of the things you’re doing where you’re walking through an airport and not getting the guide and I’m like wow this is exactly how I thought I would do it but I wasn’t sure if there was a different way. People who are new to blindness need to see it because I think some of the stuff like the constant questioning that you’re doing, the constant asking and figuring it out, people need to know that that is ok. And I love that!
So that’s why I contacted you.
MM:
That so awesome to hear you say that, so awesome because I’m going to be honest with you, I feel like this project actually even pushed me even more than I normally push myself. I would have never risked on my own a two hour layover in Atlanta going by myself to the gate. I would have never risked that on my own. But I did for the sake of this project. Like uh, we’ll see what happens.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Oh my god, I’m so glad you said that because people need to know that. people definitely need to know that
MM:
I completely agree. And then what’s the worst thing that could happen. I think what’s really important to discuss with something like this is being flexible. I was willing and ok and at peace with getting lost. I told myself Mona it’s ok if I get lost, it’s ok if it takes me like three hours … it’s ok!
[TR in conversation with MM:]
The other thing that I like about what you’re doing and we’re going to get in to the questions in just a second but…
TR:
Ok, fine, I was excited! I don’t usually include me geeking out over my guests but it definitely happens.
I knew this would be a comfortable conversation from the start.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
How are you doing Mona?
MM:
Good, how are you Thomas?
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Good, I’m good. Do you prefer Dr. Minkara? My bad.
MM:
No, no not at all. I’ve been told I probably should but no!
TR:
I’m not really into formalities, but I realize she earned that PHD and. When she’s on that campus, at those conferences put some respect on her name! Especially considering the early advice given to her mother when learning Mona would be Blind.
MM:
I had a doctor tell my mom that it wasn’t going to be worth spending a penny on my education. The bright future that I had was over with that sentence. But it wasn’t. (laughs) My life is great! (Laughs)
TR:
From an early age, Mona was interested in pursuing science and knew she wanted to be a professor.
Audio: Magic School Bus/Bill Nye
MM:
even though a lot of times I got people discouraging me because it wasn’t very practical for a Blind person to be a scientist.
I’m probably a scientist because of Magic School Bus and Bill Nye the Science Guy.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Shout out to Bill Nye!
MM:
Yes! I am a PBS Kid!
Audio: PBS Kid
I think a part of who I am is I truly just follow my passion and I really value freedom and independence. That kind of carried over to Planes Trains & Canes because it was the ultimate test of my independence to allow me to have my freedom.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
What came first, was it the Holman prize or was this a dream to kind of do this?
MM:
That’s as good question a very good question. I was a judge for the first year of Holman Prize. I remember going out there and helping to judge the applicant pool and being taken by this concept. Even the story of James Holman and why these people were applying.
TR:
James Holman AKA, the Blind traveler, completed a series of solo journeys taking him to all inhabited continents.
The competition is sponsored by the San Francisco Lighthouse. $25,000
is given to each of the winners who are all legally blind and in their own way exhibit the adventurous spirit and attitude of James Holman
Following that first year, Mona had a thought.
MM:
I’d like to apply one day. What is it that I like to do? I realized, I really love public transportation.
Public transportation is a tool that is under appreciated by a lot of people but it’s a tool for me that really gives me freedom.
TR:
Currently living in Boston, the third city where she’s lived on her own as an adult. Each of these cities having a completely different public transportation system.
MM:
And then it just clicked, the concept for Planes Trains and Canes. Traveling on my own using public transportation.
TR:
In addition, she sought out cities on different continents which meant diverse cultures.
MM:
I didn’t have a deeply scientific method other than I also wanted to go to cities that I didn’t speak the language. It’s another barrier right. You feel like you might be more lost in an non English speaking place.
It was fascinating, you can see in my upcoming episode for Istanbul, you don’t really need the language. It was mind blowing for me to realize how easy it was to still navigate in a city like Istanbul or Tokyo.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Laughs… It’s funny to hear the Scientist say that there was no scientific method about… (Laughing)
MM:
Laughs… I mean I knew London
[TR in conversation with MM:]
From the videos, it doesn’t seem like you spend that much time there. How much time do you spend in each place?
MM:
It was like four days.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
To go all the way to South Africa for 4 days is like damn!
MM:
I know, I had to squeeze them with my new job it was insane. I just started being a professor.
TR:
In addition to Istanbul & Tokyo that’s four days in Johannesburg, South Africa, London and Singapore.
While Planes Trains & Canes is all about independent travel, making the videos requires a team.
MM:
I remember thinking like 3 years ago that whoever I did this with I have to have a Videographer that was somebody I could easily travel with , a solid person. And somebody who’s really not going to break character.
NG:
Hello
[TR in conversation with NG:]
Hello Natalie?
NG:
Hi, Thomas, how are you?
[TR in conversation with NG:]
Good, how are you doing?
NG:
Good!
TR:
During my initial conversation with Mona, she suggested I speak to her entire team. And I did. First up Natalie Guzi.
NG:
I’m a Camera Woman for Planes Trains & Canes. I’m 23 and this was my first time doing anything camera work related.
[TR in conversation with NG:]
That was one of my first questions. (Laughs)
NG:
(Laughs)
Cool, ok!
[TR in conversation with NG:]
From my understanding you were a friend or a co-worker of Mona’s?
NG:
Co-worker turned really good friend
So, I went to school to be a technical writing major and I saw an open position. One of those pull tabs job posts with a number and email. Mona had put up signs for that. the interview went well I guess. Laughs…
TR:
In a way, working as an Access Assistant for Mona, helped Natalie develop one of the most important skills for the videographer role in Planes Trains & Canes.
[TR in conversation with NG:]
You ask any Blind person and they’re pretty much going to have a similar experience about being with someone who is sighted going somewhere and then having the person who is sighted being talked to as if the Blind person wasn’t there. When did you first experience that ?
NG:
The first time I experienced that was at a Chemistry conference, like an international conference where I was Mona’s access assistant. it must have been like just checking into a hotel. it’s under Mona’s name, Mona’s the PhD Scientist, I’m the 23 year old, but the person checking her in was looking at me.
TR:
This experience isn’t exclusive to those who are Blind. I hear the same from others with different disabilities too. There’s two components; first, directing the conversation away from the person with a disability and then there’s the gaze. Focusing the eye contact towards the non-disabled person.
Now, check the technique!
Audio: Musical intro…
NG:
How we work together with that kind of an issue is that I would just make eye contact with Mona so if you’re trying to look at me my gaze, then that’s going to get redirected to her. So they know where I’m looking and they should be looking. Sometimes people would pick up that and make that adjustment. Sometimes not. Or if we were talking and there was no counter between us then I would almost step over to their side so I was also facing Mona.
TR:
As the videographer, Natalie has to make sure it remains about Mona.
NG:
I tried to be as fly on the wall as possible. (Laughs) Which is a little bit hard. It wasn’t like an undercover operation. (Laughs) It was like someone following a blind woman with a camera. There were a lot of like stares and or questions about why the camera. people addressing me that I shouldn’t film even though Mona was the subject.
[TR in conversation with NG:]
They didn’t know that she was a part of it they thought you were just following her or something?
NG:
Yeh. They would like wave their hand in front of the camera.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
And then you would have to explain things?
NG:
It depended on the situation. That’s a great question too. I’m remembering a time when at a train station in Johannesburg. I was trying to capture footage of Mona buying her train ticket. One of the staff there came up and told me I couldn’t be filming although all I really wanted to do was film the interaction of Mona buying a ticket. No, no, like here’s the business card we’re filming a documentary. We’re not mapping out your train system for any weird purpose.
[TR in conversation with NG:]
That seems stressful to me. Can you talk about that.
NG:
Sure. By nature I lean towards wanting to make people happy and feel comfortable and welcomed. And when you’re walking around with a camera and people don’t know why that’s not really a possibility.
It’s difficult having those eyes and feeling those emotions from other people coming your way and having to remind yourself of the situation and the mission in that moment.
[TR in conversation with NG:]
Did that get easier?
NG:
We had the opportunity to go to lots of different countries and experience different cultures so it shifted every place that we went. Like people would in Istanbul, being like welcome and we love it and come to our store as we were walking by trying to get video.
In comparison, the experience in the London tube wasn’t as welcoming.
TR:
These are the things making Natalie the right person for the job.
NG:
A thick skin. You got to have that self-confidence and confidence in the mission and in the team too.
I think Mona and I’s relationship we just always have each other’s back. So I think that trust and that collaboration really was like the heart of the whole project that kept us going.
TR:
That trust could even mean stepping in and putting yourself at risk.
NG:
In Johannesburg, Mona was crossing the street and this car was taking a corner really fast. I had to jump into the street and like put my arms out. I just thought that car was going way too fast. I wanted them to see two people in the street at least like saying stop.
TR:
Mona and Natalie have the foundation making up a real team.
NG:
We kind of work together. She gave me the feedback on what worked in different situations. It was nice to have a collaborator with that too and just follow Mona’s lead.
TR:
After watching Planes Trains & Canes and then having the chance to speak with Mona, it’s apparent, what you see is what you get.
MM:
I’m pretty assertive I would say as a person, but I understand not everybody has that personality. When I’m tired and exhausted and getting off a 16 hour flight I’m not the sharpest. I’m just like excuse me (said lethargically) my energy’s low. I could be ignored more easily in that situation verses when I’m bright eyed and bushy tailed , I’m like hello!
[TR in conversation with MM:]
You’re quick not to give off any pity vibe or anything like that.
MM:
Yeh, cause I don’t want your pity. I want you to treat me like any other human being. I just happened to be Blind. Sighted people ask for directions all the time. All the time! Just adjust yourself , just a little bit by verbalizing your directions. I appreciate it, thank you!
Audio Bumper for editors
TR:
In order to win the prize enabling Mona to start her adventure she would have to first accumulate enough likes on her Holman prize entry video.
Contestant’s seeking the 25 G’s must first posts their videos to YouTube. The videos need to explain their ambition and cannot exceed 90 seconds. Mona and Natalie paired up to shoot the video with Natalie taking her first shot at editing. The video foreshadowed some of the reactions they’d eventually receive while traveling.
Audio: Clip Planes Trains & Canes Ambition Video
TR:
Winning the prize enabled them to purchase a camera and wireless
microphone.
Natalie and Mona learned more than expected from editing that first 90 second ambition video;
MM:
How much work editing would be.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Chuckles…
TR:
Mona recruited Anxhela (Angela) Becolli
, her current Access Assistant at Northeastern.
MM:
She actually was the one who edited Johannesburg. She’s actually with me right now and…. Ok, I’m bringing her in…
AB:
I wasn’t expecting to be on the call…
[TR in conversation with AB:]
So that was your first shot at editing?
AB:
I had done editing a little bit before. In college I studied Photography in China and there I had done a few projects in videography but mainly photography. This was my first full paid project.
TR:
The thing about creating a documentary series such as Planes Trains & Canes is that you don’t know what your story is until it happens.
MM:
We recorded with no story line in mind. Recording as life unfolds in front of you and then extracting the story. So there’s an element of being able to story tell what you lived as opposed to the other way around – you are building the story and then you record the story.
You don’t know what life is going to give you.
As I was living it I remember taking mental notes like oh my God this would be really interesting to share with the audience.
TR:
Construction takes place in the editing room.
AB:
The main part is the story part. When Mona and Natalie give me the videos they also gave me this list of what they wanted the story to look like. What there idea was and what they wanted to portray to the viewers. What the most important parts were. What parts were light hearted. What parts were very specific to being Blind, to traveling and what needed to be kept in no matter what quality the video or audio was.
TR:
Mona is clearly directing all aspects of this project.
MM:
This part needs to be sped up and it’s kind of boring. I think we should add more of this part. I would say ok, let’s find music that represents the fact that I was feeling fearful or excited. I only used music connected to whatever city I was in. So all the music in the Johannesburg episode in part two, is from musicians from Johannesburg.
I personally have a certain vision for the vive and what was happening and Angela would work with me and hear what I have to say and implement it.
TR:
Creating content like this means investing real time.
AB:
If you have 40 hours of video you’re taking about 60 hours to watch the videos because you’re going to make notes, you’re going to cut things and you’ll re-watch those.
TR:
Angela was already committed to other projects so Mona had to find another editor.
Ted:
I’m Ted Jimenez, I’m the second editor put on the team to work on the new episodes; London, Istanbul, Singapore and Tokyo.
I am a self-taught editor. I worked with small independent studios before back in my home the Philippines I worked for States Sessions. It was a company that put on productions for Indy musicians in the Philippines. I did music videos for them. Promotional videos for them. Now I’m in Boston.
TR:
Where he too works at Northeastern making psychological self-help videos.
Mona decided early on that Planes Trains & Canes would not be a narrated style documentary.
Ted:
This is where Mona and I have conflicting views. I was going in with like my script saying oh Mona could you narrate this portion for us. And she is more of a fan of in the moment. I’m not going to pre-record a script that tells a story I’d rather the audience live through the story because it tells the Blind experience more naturally than if it was just said by her.
TR:
Show, not tell!
Mona’s voice over narrations that you hear in the series are sort of a means of accentuating specific moments.
Ted:
And it’s also to make it lighthearted.
MM:
I wanted comedy to be a main element. I want people to laugh while watching this because I want my message to really be heard and it’s going to be heard more through a comedic tone than through a lecturing serious tone.
TR:
Lighthearted may be the goal, but come on traveling Blind just like living Blind, you will have some encounters.
Audio: London…
[TR in conversation with MM:]
So you know where I’m going now. We’re going to London! You know the episode. (Laugh fades out) you were told that you had to register.
MM:
Yeh, yeh, yeh! I had no choice.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
So my anxiety woo, went through the roof! Mona, I’m going to tell you, I’m not that good at that situation. I’m from the Bronx Mona, I get a little aggressive. Ok! (Laugh fades out)
MM:
Laughing…
Dude, I’m going to tell you honestly, I held myself together because I didn’t even know if Natalie was videotaping me or not. But just in case she was I was like I need to make this point clear.
TR:
That point is at the core of this project; independence and freedom.
Ted:
I really like London as an example about how we kind of tell that story.
First, Mona getting off the plane into the subway. We foreshadow that Mona likes the choice of being able to ask for assistance or not ask for assistance.
In the second section of London where she’s coming from the airport to the Metro, that’s when we see that whole belief that she has of accepting or not accepting assistance.
TR:
You’re going to have to head on over to YouTube and check out the series to find out more.
Audio: Next time on Planes Trains & Canes…
TR:
Planes Trains & Canes is all about perspective.
It’s filmed from the perspective of a woman who is Blind and enjoys traveling independently and values her choice.
Along the way she interacts with people who may view the world differently.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Wait up. You said he was nice?
MM:
I’m saying he was nice yes. (Laughing)
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Did you feel that way in the beginning? From the video, I took this guy like he was being condescending.
MM:
Oh, he was totally being condescending. I think it’s just the norm there to kind of treat people with disabilities like we are a bunch of 5 year olds. An underlying patronizing vibe!
TR:
As we each bring our individual perspective to the series, chances are there will be opposing points of view.
MM:
Did you see some of the comments that were on YouTube. Let me tell you. There was this one person who goes by SocietySister she wrote that I was selfish for not accepting help.
TR:
probably the same type of person to find the inclusion of Audio Description as a default in the series videos to be selfish.
MM:
I really wanted to make every video we create accessible to both Blind and Deaf individuals.
TR:
That’s a pretty inclusive approach giving a variety of viewers a chance to benefit from Mona’s experiences.
What did the production team take away from this experience? First, Natalie.
NG:
People are people wherever you go. They’re curious, they’ll probably want to know what’s going on if you walk into a new situation. maybe concerned if they see something new if they see something different. No matter where you go people do want to understand and to and connect. Also, trust and partnership with Mona . Just a profound sense of gratitude for working together for collaborating for trusting me to capture her experience and to be an observer.
TR:
Angela, who edited the first two episodes from Johannesburg, had hours of video to review. This gave her the chance to really see what Mona experiences.
AB:
I had a lot of moments where I went what I can’t, what why I can’t believe someone would do that. I can’t believe someone would say that. Why would someone treat you like that. Mona mentioned that Natalie was able to keep her calm, I’m the kind of person that would be like no what are you doing, you can’t do that. You can’t treat someone like that. Yeh, I’m not someone that would be able to keep her cool. (Laughs)
[TR in conversation with AB:]
Laughs.
TR:
I could see Angela and I teaming up in some bar fights together.
Ted, the editor of the remaining episodes, it should be noted is not only editing, but he’s doing all the Audio description and captioning. As someone making a career as an editor I had to ask him if he’d become a proponent for Audio Description.
[TR in conversation with Ted:]
You’re working with, I don’t know Steven Spielberg. You’re like Steven we got to put some Audio Description on this man… (Laughs)
Ted:
Laughing… Hey Steven! (Said in a serious tone)
Oh yes of course. Right now it’s normalized for me to kind of like say well what are the options for everybody if I’m viewing piece of media. Mona has made it specifically clear that the deadlines are the deadlines for everything. The captioning, the Audio Description. The video, It needs to be accessible to everyone.
TR:
Planes Trains & Canes was Mona’s way to not only highlight the benefits that public transportation affords her, but also show the ingenuity and abilities of those who are Blind.
Mona’s travels reveal lots of valuable lessons for those adjusting to blindness.
MM:
Even though I am 32 years old, I feel like I am more at peace with it then I have ever been. I don’t know if I want to share this with the world but yeh (laughing…)
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Well, let me just say something to you right now Again, it’s totally, totally fine if you don’t want to share.
MM:
Yeh!
[TR in conversation with MM:]
But that right there, again, think about it from the person who’s adjusting.
MM:
Yeh! No, I think it’s good I’ll explain why I say this.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
yeh!
MM:
I thought I was at peace. I used to take comments of you look sighted as compliments. I realize the detriment of that, only until like last year. Why should that be a compliment, you know? And I realized that I had built up all these techniques to almost compensate for blindness as opposed to work with it.
I had internalized this concept of blindness as weakness. I think it’s really important for Blind people to realize, we are inherently better problem solvers because we have to work around a lot of things. Blindness is not weakness. And to truly believe that I don’t know if I’m a hundred percent there.
TR:
I so respect and appreciate that honesty. It’s what I personally believe, adjusting to blindness is a continuous process. And if that’s ok for this Bio Engineer professor, well, I’m just saying, she’s doing something right.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
What have you taken away from this whole experience?
MM:
I think I pushed myself more than I would have for the sake of the videos. I learned that there’s a lot of good out there and there’s a lot of like negatives that we need to fix and that’s ok.
I don’t know how to explain this feeling. it’s almost an internal shift where I want to go to Mongolia, I can go to Mongolia. Where maybe before I’d be like well I really don’t know how I would go to Mongolia. I need to find somebody to go with me or whatever. And now it’s like this state of mind. If I want to go I can go!
[TR in conversation with MM:]
It sounds like, like you’re free.
MM:
Exactly! Exactly I obtained more freedom than I ever thought I could. And I think I have more freedom than the average person gets to mentally experience and what a privilege.
[TR in conversation with MM:]
And it’s attainable. You did it one specific way but that’s not the only way to attain that level of freedom and access.
MM:
Yeh. It’s like I learned it from my travels but I feel like it’s not about the travels, right. You can learn it in your own backyard. it’s about the mindset… you want it, go for it!
[TR in conversation with MM:]
Mona, this was better than I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be great, but this was even better. (Laughs…)
MM:
Laughs…
[TR in conversation with MM:]
One hundred percent!
Congratulations! I’m going to keep watching. I want to make sure other people watch. So you got a fan over here ok, I just want you to know that.
MM:
Thank you very much, I’m a fan of yours too!
TR:
Please welcome the latest members of the Reid My Mind Radio Family. Planes Trains & Canes, that’s Natalie Guzi, Angela Becolli , Benjamin Ted Jimenez and leading the way with her white cane in hand;
Audio: Put some respect on my name!
Dr. Mona Minkara!
[TR in conversation with MM:]
where can people check out Planes Trains & Canes and also where can they learn more about you Mona?
MM:
They can go to PlanesTrainsAndCanes.com or go to YouTube and type Planes Trains & Canes or you can go to MonaMinkara.com to learn more about me. If you want to learn about my research check out MinkaraCombineLab.com.
If you’re on Twitter follow @PlaneTrainCane (singular) and @Mona_Minkara
You can subscribe to Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts.
Transcripts, resources and more are over at ReidMyMind.com. And yes, that’s R to the E I D (Audio: “D, and that’s me in the place to be!” Slick Rick)
Like my last name
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!
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Tags: Adjustment, Audio Description, Blind, Captions, Editing, Freedom, Holman Prize, Independence, Istanbul, Johannesburg, London, Singapore, Storytelling, Team, Tokyo, Travel, Video Posted in Access Technology, Accessibility, Audio, Blind Tech, Blindness, Descriptive Television, Media, PWD, Visually Impaired | Comments Off on Taking A Ride with Planes Trains and Canes
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