Reid My Mind

TR:
Hey everyone!
Before we begin the podcast, I have a quick request.

2024 makes 10 years of producing Reid My Mind Radio. I’d love to hear from listeners, long time or new, that have a particular relationship to a specific episode, topic raised or the podcast itself.

I’ve received some really cool emails over the years from listeners who shared how this podcast has affected their lives.

It would be really cool to hear the voices from the family and share them here on the podcast in some way.

If you have a memory or comment to share, or maybe you just want to wish the podcast happy anniversary, please, send me an audio memo from your phone or computer.

Email it to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.
Or, call the ReidMyMindRadio Hotline at (570) 798-7343 that’s (570)79T Reid. (A silly obnoxious giggle) and leave a message.

It would really mean a lot to me. And I think it could make for a cool episode to capture the moment.

I appreciate you family!
Aight! Let’s get into it!

— Swoosh transition
— Clock ticking…

TR:
The clock no longer symbolizes the expiration of time.
As in,

— “Times Up!” (modulated yelling voice)

TR:
Rather, it represents the new day!

— Birds chirping

We kicked off the new with SoundScribe,
a promising young global majority led organization from the UK making creative, innovative.

Today, we’re headed to Massachusetts.

England to Massachusetts, a path traveled before that sort of began something new.

(Giggles)
Don’t worry, this time, it’s not about conquering, genocide, human bondage or any of that colonialism.
We’re moving forward with the idea of a world free of the ism’s and phobias.
If you’re joining for the first time, I strongly encourage you to go back and listen to the entire season,
but specifically, Times Up, which provides some more context for this episode.

I’m Thomas Reid, host and producer of this podcast.

It’s time to think differently about access.
It’s time for an Access Revolution!

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

— Helicopter flying over and outdoor protest. Sounds of people chanting, whistling and commotion.

TR:
(A voice speaking to the crowd via PA system)
The Access Revolution will not only be captioned and described,
it will include ASL interpretation,
It will be free from physical barriers and
in general a welcoming space for all.
—

TR:
Thinking and acting differently about accessibility, requires all of us working together.

Sam:
I’m Sam Gould. I’m an Ashkenazi, Jewish woman with salt and pepper hair, five feet tall.

TR:
Among other things, Sam’s the president of Open Door Theater.

Sam:
Open Door Theater has a 40 year mission of being an accessible theater and a training theater. We train actors, and we train backstage folks, and front of the house folks and now ASL interpreters, audio describers, captioners. It’s a training ground for people.

TR:
Sam’s also co founder of Think Outside the Vox.

Sam:
Along with Christopher Robinson

(Sam & Christopher overlap saying “Christopher Robinson”)

Christopher:
Christopher Robinson, African American male. He him pronouns, and like to say that I’m an aspiring Morgan Freeman salt and pepper beard and curly licorice locks on the top.

TR:
An ASL Interpreter who found his way into performing arts.

Christopher:
In the mid 90s, I was working as a staff American Sign Language interpreter for a very influential deaf Executive Director, and because I was in proximity to that director, who was a theater performing arts lover and concert lover, I was in proximity to these art spaces. And then I became it. I was the beacon. Because where else you’re going to find a black male sign language interpreter in the profession, it’s really scarce. The last numbers we heard as of 2024 was that 11% of the entire profession of American Sign Language interpreters in the registry. Only 11% is African American, and that’s 2024 Never mind 1995 when nobody’s even counting.

TR:
Even as a Black ASL interpreter, Christopher isn’t of the culture.

Christopher:
I was placed in those spaces by well intentioned white deaf practitioners, white sign language interpreters to be the interpreter for these black shows that have black content. We approached how to tackle the text of blackness, but I wasn’t born and raised by Black Deaf people, and neither were the white interpreters I was working with, or the white sign language coaches that I was working with, so they had nothing to offer other than just putting me on a soap box in front of a stage and watching my Black hand sign.

TR:
We’re talking about the importance of representation, authenticity, cultural competency.

That of course applies to all forms of access.

Sam:
The accessibility landscape, and especially the AD landscape, was very checking the box.

It was very much either non existent or performed by the old guard of people who had been doing it for years.
So we came to the 80 party a little late. Our audio description was competent, but it certainly wasn’t culturally competent.

We started to hear from patrons in the open door space, but also in the community, blind patrons that wanted more.

TR:
Then there’s the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
The one thing that seems minor, but it’s really the compounding affect
the culmination of many things that just makes you say, times up!

We’re talking about access from all perspectives.

Christopher:
Well, what it came down to was, there was a theater company that wanted to do, and listen to the side of my Downton Abbey voice.
They wanted to do the right thing and the noble thing real intention, and get some sign language interpreters on the stage for this show. They wanted them to Shadow Mirror the hearing actors, so that any deaf person could go and see the show.
So they started doing their development research, and they started pricing out, well, how much is it going to be to get sign language interpreters on the stage? And the pricing points that they saw were for the context of legal Sign Language Interpreting work, medical sign language interpreter work in academic spaces, and that does not translate over into the art space.

TR:
Based on their estimates, the theater did some serious fundraising to pay sign language interpreters.

Christopher:
Fast forward through a conversation with me and a couple of deaf stakeholders that were involved. The development department of this theater company realized that if they do the anti ableist thing, which is, instead of hiring sign language interpreters, hire deaf actors. Now what you think about that? So they in the in the effort to be accessible, they were being ableist by not doing what their theater company was designed to do, which is to employ artists, and in this case, Deaf artists, to shadow non deaf artists on the stage. And where they needed the sign language interpreters was in the production room, in the rehearsal room.

TR:
That’s access for content creators as well as consumers.

Sam:
We were hearing from our blind patrons in the theater that
they were just grateful to have ad so they never actually asked for quality AD.
They weren’t feeling like they were getting the full picture of audio description in the theater when there were such great, diverse and cultural pieces going on

They were getting perfunctory dance steps, step together, step together, kick, kick.

They weren’t getting what the description was of, what the richness of and the vibrancy of the costuming, actors, characters, all of that. And they weren’t getting the sexually explicit content. Frankly, they were getting things sanitized to them, and that was making them feel infantilized.

TR:
Then there’s the perspective of Access providers.

Sam:
With respect to the AD space, we were hearing from a lot of recent trainees, and frankly, a lot of long term veterans that their training and their practices that there’s no place for race in audio description.

TR:
We’re talking about the “old guard” or the established “AD experts”
telling those who want to be inclusive and equitable that there’s no place in AD for that.

They are still out there.
They continue to practice their exclusion, but even worse,
they’re still training others.

Be advised, if your AD training isn’t including cultural competency, you may want to go elsewhere.

Sam:
from the few audio describers of color that we knew that were entering the field or in the field, they were actually being a little bit held back and corrected when they tried to put race. Into the space that was that was not welcoming race in the space. So that was, to us, an aha moment that was like, Okay, well, we know how to, from a theater open doors, but really kick them in and do something about this.

Christopher:
And Sam, I would add the ironic tragedy about that is that these colleagues of color were being put in these spaces for shows that have people of color and then stifled, not to mention that there’s color on the stage, yeah.

Why are you casting me to be in this space, only to not mention why you put me in the space, because there are some very specific choices and intentions on the stage in that space.

Sam:
Yeh, and also being left at home for the classic shows, which what?

Christopher:
Ohhh!

Sam:
There’s a deficit of audio describers in our region, and the audio describers of color were only being used for the shows that had color in them.

— Clock ticking

Christopher:
Then all the stories that Sam and I were experiencing just started bleeding together. And as they came together, Sam and I were able to see more egregious kind of violations of just out and out racism to colleagues who were doing this access work, ableism, doing this access work. So we needed to respond to the demand, but we also needed to take care of our people.

— Music Begins: A repetitive synth that feels like it’s foreshadowing something in the near future.

TR:
They began thinking more about the issues.
Thinking about ways to create a more inclusive space in live theater for their people.

Deaf and disabled performers, interpreters,
Blind AD consultants, disabled consumers…

They began thinking outside the vox!

— Music: The foreshadowing, revealed … a bass drum drop into a driving hip hop beat.

Christopher:
I love poetry. I love the abstractions. I live in that space.

So this idea is twofold. One is language based, and the other one is almost tactile, sensory, visual, the language or the notion of Vox or the voice. And we kind of think about the Latin and how V, O X, as a term is used in voice, Voice of the People, or the Vox.

Well, we want to think outside,

thinking about the voices that are not represented, the voices that are on the margin. So outside of the majority voice.

TR:
Ok, it’s tactile time with T.Reid.

Take your finger… c’mon, go ahead,
take your finger and trace the letter V in the air.

Christopher: :
When we think about the letter V, that depression into the valley and then upward movement out of the valley, that architecture of the V, we think a heart monitor, up down, up down. The humanity comes first. You can talk compliance all you want, but that’s not about the humanity.
Where is the human in this work that we’re doing?

TR:
The letter O.

Christopher: :
Our letter O is not spherical, is not a circle, it is box shaped.

We think about, what’s the frame? What is the frame of the work that the venue or the theater company, the arts company or the person? What’s their frame of reference, in terms of accessibility, we start where the person is at, what’s their world view. And then we have a conversation with you, beginning there.

TR:
And the x?

Christopher: :
We think of the word intersection. We think of a literal intersection, where all identities, experiences, lived experiences, professional experiences, where they intersect.

So we were at that frame box that’s the individual. Now we’re talking about the intersection of identities, assets, in terms of the business that’s an arts organization and the people within it. How can we create some value that circles back to that letter V to make a better human experience, we know that disability is a part of the spectrum of humanity, all in the art space. So that’s the poetry of think outside the vox and what it means to us and how we deploy it.

TR:
Think Outside the Vox is serving;
– the individual as in the audience members
– the professionals or artists and access providers or ASL interpreters and audio describers
– the business as in the arts organizations, theater companies or actual theatrical spaces.

Doing this effectively often requires additional advocacy.
What some might call Accessibility 101 or sensitivity training.

Christopher:
Things that our colleagues are exhausted, explaining to every venue again and again.

So we wanted to be available when called upon by our deaf, disabled and blind colleagues, to be able to go in and do some of that triage work.

TR in conversation with Think Outside the Vox: 23:03
So exactly what does that triage look like?

Christopher:
For ASL spaces and deaf spaces, often there’s a lot of email interchange and there’s a lot of jargon that theater companies email to sign language interpreters that are contractual and transactional, but when it’s working with our Deaf artists, they did not orient our Deaf Artists and our Deaf interpreters to working with the theater venues. So our hearing sign language interpreters were more oriented into the business transactions of the space than our deaf peers were. So when our deaf peers did not respond, or did not respond to the company or the venue the way the venue expected, then there was a lot of ableism and language and reply by email that was going toward the Deaf people such as

well. Are you sure you’re qualified to do this work?
How do I know that the translation is going to be accurate?

These people have lived experience, and their professionals look them up on LinkedIn, and you’ll see that they have more credentials than you. What they have not done is worked with you, and you provided no onboarding scenario for these colleagues who have expertise in accessibility, but you’re providing this orientation and onboarding suite of information and time to all your non disabled artists. HOST, administrators, technicians coming in, but you just want to plug and play the accessibility people as if you order in a pizza.

TR:
Christopher was clear to note that the Deaf artists and interpreters are perfectly capable of advocating for themselves,
but he recognizes the additional labor that they shouldn’t be responsible for taking on.

I find it quite similar to Blind professionals forced to take on extra work to resolve access issues around completing forms or working with inaccessible software.

Sam:
And also in the AD space, it looks like actually mindset change and cultural shift, because it was sort of revolutionary to include a blind expert on the AD team.

It’s rudimentary in the ASL space, there’s usually a director of artistic sign language when it’s being done, right? But our colleagues in the theater spaces were not even considering that they needed a blind expert consultant on the team.

TR:
I imagine perhaps, for some of those unfamiliar with disability,
it may be more persuasive to hear from other non disabled people championing the benefits of
hiring disabled professionals as opposed to hearing directly from disabled professionals themselves.

This additional work, is all extra uncompensated labor and time that can take a toll on your physical and emotional health.

Sam:
then also in the theater spaces, it’s very common to have what they call a primary and a secondary describer. So the primary describer is the action boots on the ground in the moment description, and then the secondary describer is doing the pre show.

The disparity in the pay scale, in those was significant. It was like a 1/3 2/3 pay scale versus the workload was not shared more evenly as well. So we’re trying to make a more equitable model, and, frankly, a better quality model for the AD.

Christopher:
frankly, that was going on in the ASL space. You know, American Sign Language has so much visibility, and I use that word very specifically, whereas the ad work is literally hidden in the back of the room in the dark. Nobody knows it’s happening unless you’re wearing a headset, right? Whereas the ASL space is literally front and center. But that gives us illusion that there’s progressive decision making in that space, but behind the scenes, the paperwork was just as inequitable where our Deaf colleagues were getting a fraction, a third or a fourth of the compensation for showing up doing the same work to assist American Sign Language interpreters like myself, who are not deaf to be able to sign accurately.
Now how much sense does that make if I’m a sign language interpreter with all the credentials of A to Z, I should be proficient in the language. Well, the reality is, most sign language interpreters do not come from a native first language, primary language competency in American Sign Language. That’s why we’re bringing in this deaf what might be the equivalent of a dialect coach or an ASL coach, to make sure that our language in the translation is aligned with what’s on stage.

And these folks are getting paid less, and the sign language interpreters who are not deaf, we’re getting, you know, courtroom level, medical level compensation in terms of rates, and our Deaf colleagues weren’t.

Sam:
We were just in the Kennedy Center Leadership Exchange in arts and disabilities, which is a great space to talk about best practices in Arts Access. And one of the things that we kept hearing that was really upsetting from some practitioners, from some access coordinators at large institutions, was one of the ways they save money is by giving their experts free tickets instead of paying them for their expertise.

Christopher:
Starbucks cards, coffee cards.

Sam:
that makes my blood boil.

TR:
That’s the recipe for making real change.
Step one, bring your blood to a boil.

Then add the rest of the ingredients.

Christopher:
I think Sam, you jumped on that domain name too. It’s not real, unless you have a domain.

TR:
In addition to that domain, ThinkOutsideTheVox.org,
became a 501c3 company in order to raise funds to do this work.

Sam:
So we said, we know how to train, and we need to reach out and find the best trainers in the area that we can.

Sam:
we figured if we wanted gig workers, we had to make it easy for them to learn this skill and to fund it for them and get the grant funding for it.

Sam:
And we’re very lucky in Massachusetts to have the Massachusetts Cultural Council be a partner and a funder and a supporter in a lot of Arts Access. areas.
And so we got an innovation grant from the Massachusetts Cultural Council.

TR:
The training, which weaves in the importance of Blind centered, equitable and
culturally responsive access
throughout the syllabus is just the first step in a very intentional process.

You have to find the participants. Which is often considered difficult, until you think about where to look.

And you can’t understate the importance of the training being free.

Sam:
We reached into areas where we figured we would find great describers. So the Boston black Writers Association, the Asian American playwrights Association, actors of color in our region, BIPOC, AAPI, et cetera, blind consumers of audio description and blind artists, and also the local interpreter pool, because we figured that would dovetail nicely into the audio description work. And we put together our first cohort of trainees and started there.

TR:
The virtual training over multiple weeks, was just the first part.
A key component is what happens after the training.

Members of the cohort were immediately given paid opportunities to write and narrate AD in actual productions with other seasoned professionals.

Welcoming professionals.

Sam:
And then when we were able to run the class a second time, we used the first cohort to train the second group, because there were already 14 describers up and running and working and picking up a lot of the slack of audio description in Massachusetts, because we had a deficit of audio describers to begin with, never mind audio describers who are culturally competent.

TR in conversation with Think Outside the Vox: 35:43
What type of impact did this crew of 14 have on that deficit?

Sam:
with respect to the hard numbers of audio describers of color. Prior to our project, there was one and a half audio describers who were non white, and I say half because one of the audio describers of color went to do more voice over and radio work, and frankly, one blind expert in the field,

Sam:
Modestly speaking, we doubled the number of audio describers that were actively working in live theater.

We definitely increased the capacity of theaters to be able to offer audio description, because there just weren’t enough providers to go around.

TR:
It actually extends beyond audio description in live theater and naturally includes image description in museums as well.

That increase in work opportunities include ASL.

Christopher: :
We were working with a handful of interpreters of color for at least 20 different theater performing arts venues and their seasons.

TR:
A season equates to an average of 3 to 4 productions in the year.
That’s somewhere between 60 and 80 individual productions.

And then there’s the touring productions traveling an hour to an hour and a half away within the state.

Christopher: :
or they’ll cross the line into Rhode Island or Connecticut. The same pool of people are being dispatched there.

So the visibility, especially for the ASL interpreter and the ASL coach space with this handful, has made those venues who cross attend other ASL interpreter shows where there are these interpreters of color. Then they want to poach and grab those ASL interpreters and bring them to other spaces.

Christopher:
Literally, there were a handful of interpreters of color that were actively working in theater performing arts spaces. Now they’re closer to 11 that are working in those spaces. That includes individuals who are deaf.

Christopher: :
Now, generally, people might say, well, that’s not staggering.

there’s less about how many individuals we increased.
I think the numbers are in the demand.

TR:
The more TOV on boards new theaters, the greater the visibility which further increases the demand.

Meaning, the more people are aware and are able to understand and see the benefits of increasing equitable access, the more it is adopted.

The benefits include everyone involved.
* Benefits of AD Cohort

Sam:
From our first cohort of culturally competent audio describers, it increased the workload of the local blind expert, quadrupled her work once we started to teach the industry good practices, to make sure that they were including a blind professional in the audio description work that was like life changing and door opening for this one individual, but also for all the theaters.

One of our actors that was trained, he’s a great orator and writer, but he’s got a toddler at home, so he’s been struggling to keep the acting work and keep food on the table, and by doing the audio description, it’s more finite in time, and he’s able to make bills paid with his child at home. And so it really has been instrumental for the gig economy workers in our region.

TR:
Many of these gig workers fall into one or more marginalized groups.

Christopher: :
There are other colleagues that I’m working with in the sign language space that are able to turn down jobs not out of arrogance, but because the venue hasn’t done their due diligence.

TR:
The venues that weren’t doing the appropriate on boarding or paying equitably.

Today, with workers having more welcoming opportunities , they can now say;
Times UP!

“We’re not working with you until you fix this and show us the respect we deserve.

Christopher: :
it’s been a wake up call.
People come back and say, Hey, Chris Sam, can you help us find this person or that person? Because these other ones actually flat out, turned us down, and we’re able to ask, Well, why?

It’s a different kind of conversation than what it used to be, which was just a lot of our peers calling us and saying they’re causing us damage. They’re causing us trauma.

I think the scales have tipped in the other direction, which is a wonderful problem to have.
TR:
For those who don’t necessarily appreciate the anecdotal, TOV is collecting quantitative metrics as well.

Sam:
Certainly with Open Door Theater, we can take in exactly the metrics of who’s coming to the performances for what access service. But we’re starting to get and collect that information from other theaters, and we’re getting and collecting that information from the patrons who are attending the performances.

What worked, what didn’t work. And we’re also getting the information from our cohorts of audio describers as to what jobs they’re taking, what jobs they’re doing, and the feedback that they’re getting directly from the patrons in the space.

TR:
Keeping focus on the humanity in access continues to guide Sam and Christopher into their future plans for TOV.
Christopher:
When you’re an access provider who is plugged in, brought into content that’s very specific to the lived experience of the provider, whether it’s a August Wilson piece or Baldwin piece, or some of the more contemporary pieces that are black centric or BIPOC centric?

Well, you’re getting saturated in that journey, and a lot of it is trauma written in some of these stories.

So some of the future things that Vox is considering is,

how do we create a respite space and an information resource repository for sustaining our access providers that are exponentially more exposed to trauma because of the content that they’re working on and The frequency they’re working on than some of the artists who are producing the shows themselves.
So we got to sustain our people, not just refer them and plug them in into these spaces.

So some kind of sustainability, resilience, mental health, support and resource for our gig workers is in our future?

Sam:
We’re trying really hard to not be global, national too fast because of capacity and burnout.

We’re trying to make sure that we are sustainable in what we’re doing and creating a model and a blueprint, and then we can work on helping other people distribute that elsewhere.

TR:
In addition to more culturally equitable AD Trainings,
TOV has plans to assist artists to engage with legislators
to assure their needs are properly being met in government.

Sam:
We’re working on an exciting project with the local arts Boston calendar, and they are putting out a calendar that is accessible and sortable by access point, which we’ve needed in the sector so badly, so that want to go see a show that’s interpreted in sign language or audio describe. You can sort by that access point and then the audio description pre show is loaded right into that website, and the ASL blog is loaded right into that website. And you can see who the providers are, because you might be a fan of a certain audio describer or director of artistic sign language.

Every city should have one.

TR:
Every city should have a Sam Gould and Christopher Robinson and Think Outside the VOX!

— Music begins: A bouncy up tempo groove.

TR in conversation with Think Outside the Vox:
You know Sam, Christopher invite folks in, and they share their information with the family.

And so it means that you, Sam, Christopher, are now. You’ve always been, but you are now official Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Sam:
I’ve been waiting for you to make it official for years.

TR:
I know there are some listening who either are in position or in proximity to those who want to make their local theater space much more accessible and do so equitably.

Listen back to this episode or read the transcript… then reach out to TOV!
You can find contact information and more about them as TOV and individually at ThinkOutsideTheVox.org.

We can all head on over to OpenDoorTheaterr.org. Learn more about their work and accessible productions.

Sam:
The next production that the theater is going to do is The Prom, it’s a fun show. It’s got a mission of inclusion, but it’s also got a mission of self advocacy, and don’t foist your agenda or your accommodations on me. So that’s the one we’re looking forward to

TR:
Some times it feels like everything is a fight.

Right now, we’re in the midst of fighting for so called democracy hear in the US. I just want to once again encourage everyone in the states to please exercise your right to vote.

I can’t tell you who to vote for but if you’re listening to this podcast, I hope that means you have both a high level of empathy and intelligence. You care about your fellow human. That combination can only really go one way.

You may not think your specific issues are addressed by either candidate, but I can tell you that one candidate
will ultimately mean your issues will never even be heard.
the other candidate will at the very least assure you have the right to protest her.

Your choice!

Unfortunately, I have to choose to conclude this season of Flipping the Script on Audio Description.

I had a good time producing it and I hope you enjoyed listening and or reading it!
(Shout out to those who read the transcripts)

I may have one or two episodes later this year. So stay tuned and subscribed!
I’d love to put together a celebration of ten years so please
if you feel any sort of way about the podcast or just want to give a shout out,
please as requested in the beginning of this episode, send it in.

I appreciate you all rocking with Reid My Mind Radio, which is available wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcripts and more are available at ReidMyMind.com.

It’s been determined by a landslide that the only way to get there is to make sure you spell it right!

That’s R to the E, I, D!

— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick

Like my last name!

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

— Clock Ticking

— Wake up scene from Ground Hog’s Day

TR:
This is the wake up scene from the movie, Ground Hog’s Day.
nIt repeats over and over again.

Have you ever had something in your life that resembles Ground Hog’s Day?
That is, a situation in which events that have happened before happen again, in what seems to be exactly the same way.

I have….

— Dream Harp
— From Don’t Touch Our Hair, 2023
TR:

I would love to see those who say they understand and support the need for Audio description to be more culturally aware and competent, put it into practice.

but, it’s like…
Audio sample: “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.” From The Godfather.

”

TR:
That was the opening of the 2022 episode titled Black Art White Voices.
I feel like the title says it all, but apparently not enough.

This issue didn’t start in 2022, it’s way before Black Panther in 2018.
In fact, it begins before audio description.
— End Clip —

— Reverse dream harp

— Clock ticking
##TR
In that clip, from the 2023 episode titled, Don’t Touch Our Hair,
I went on to discuss the age old tradition of stealing Black art.
From sculptures and artifacts to music, dance and other inventions.

I focused on art.
I didn’t even mention human trafficking, the theft of land and natural resources,
colonization, imperialism.

— Clock ticking

This is the context in which I continue to speak out against the white washing of Black art
with white voices as the audio description narrator.

It’s not just about preference.

By now we should all understand, Audio Description is Much More than Entertainment!

It’s about equity.

— Clock ticking

And equity is long past due.
That’s why we’re Flipping the Script on Audio Description,
which only happens here on Reid My Mind Radio!

I’m your host and producer Thomas Reid.

— Clock ticking….

— “What time is it?” Amira Baraka

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro Music

— Clock ticking

TR:
Relentless!

When you hear that word, does it have a positive or negative connotation?

According to the Google, specifically, vocabulary.com, It describes something that’s harsh, unforgiving, and persistent.

That could be the desert heat. A virus that forces you to stay in bed for days.
Or, even the blatantly disrespectful, inequitable approach some have to producing audio description.

— Clock ticking

Relentless – the way some people just don’t care to respect and honor culture.
Even when they’re aware of what they’re doing.

— Dream Harp
— From Don’t touch Our Hair, 2023 —
TR:
Who should voice the audio description for the Hair Tales documentary?
Who should be the filter through which Blind Black women experience their stories?

— Audio Description Narrator: “A title appears, The Hair Tales” Tracey Ellis Ross sits across a table from Oprah. Flowers decorate the room. Photos of Oprah and her family.

— Reverse dream harp
— Clip Ends —

TR:
The white washing of Black content and that
from and for those of the global majority didn’t start with audio description.

It didn’t start with this documentary or.

— Clip from Insecure —

Identifies the same audio description narrator.

— End Clip —

TR:
Or Esa Rae’s Insecure
So, I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised when earlier this year, 2024, in case you’re losing track of time,
I turned on the documentary titled Freaknic.
It’s about an event that was started in the early 1980’s by some students from HBCU’s (Historically Black College and University) taking place in Atlanta. A very Black city.

— From Freaknic Documentary on Hulu —

Once again, the same audio description narrator.

— End Clip —

— Clock ticking

— Ground Hog Day opening scene
TR:
Ground Hog’s Day y’all!

Did you know a ground hog is a woodchuck?
As in how much wood, would a wood chuck chuck,
if a wood chuck could chuck wood?

I figured it out.
Apparently, woodchucks can’t turn down any wood.

— Rim Shot!

— Music begins: A crescendo swoosh culminates to … “Stop” Q-Tip “Breathe & Stop” followed by a fun, upbeat, high energy Hip Hop groove.

TR:
Hey! Many of you have been asking how you can support the podcast!

Here’s two ways to do that …

Reid My Mind Radio Merch!

T-Shirts, hoodies, Coffee Mugs and more….

All With Reid My Mind Radio inspired themes:

— Sample: “Check this Out”
— Sample: “One”

For those of us who are serious about our AD, say it with your chest!

An Audio Description icon with the letters AD, is accompanied by the phrase “Snob Squad” in capital letters.
Beneath in quotes is the text: Quality First.

— Sample: “Two”

If you want humans creating all aspects of your AD.
Say it with your chest!

In a black-and-white nutrition label, the text reads:
100% ORGANIC
Text below reads: Audio Description is for Humans
Underneath, in all caps, it says, “GET THE AI OUT OF HERE!!

no artificial intelligence added.
On the bottom center is a QR Code.

— Sci Fi data transmission
— Keyboard typing
— R E I D M Y M I N D dot C O M

Guess where the QR Code leads you!

— Sample: “Three”

. Of course, there’s the classic.

Audio Description is More than entertainment

— Sample: “Four”

. And just to represent for the podcast…
Official!!!
Reid My Mind Radio Family!

— Sounds of a digital camera taking pictures

Consider posting a picture in your shirt.
Don’t forget the image description.

— Sounds of a digital camera taking pictures

Get as creative as you like with it!
Tag @ReidMyMindRadio on FB or IG.
@tsreid on Twitter.

And!

If you want to buy me a coffee or a tea, , you can do that too.

To support!

Visit ReidMyMind.com/Support

And with all sincerity, your support is greatly appreciated.

Now let’s
— Sample: “Stop” Q-Tip
here and get back to the episode!
Music Ends
—
TR:

As I said in the Don’t Touch Our Hair episode in 2023….

— Dream Harp
— From Don’t Touch Our Hair 2023 —

TR:
Black art and culture isn’t made to be filtered through whiteness.

Non-Blind consumers are free to experience the art in the way it was intended. And so should Blind people.
— End Clip —

— Clock ticking

TR:
Relentless!

That can also apply to those who say we know the difference between right and wrong.
We’re determined to counter selfish with selfless.
We will respect, appreciate and uplift by assuring authentic representation.

We see you and will continue to call out your nonsense.

But understand, like those who came before us,
we’re not sitting around waiting for you to create the change
we know is representative of the real world.

— Clock ticking

— Hazardous Alarm
(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice)
Times up!

I’m talking to all of you who continue to think the white voice is the standard.
Those of you who perpetuate in equitable access to visual content by excluding
voices from the global majority.

Your slip is showing!

I don’t have to call you out, you do it yourself.

Whether we’re talking about the providers:

— Tansey Alexander saying “Audio Description by Point 360”
—
Or individual narrators:
— “Voiced by Tansey Alexander”

–(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice)
Times up!

— Music begins: A menacing synth intro that’s leading to something…
That’s for all of the AD producers and narrator’s who either hire inequitably or
choose to hide behind the fact that they were hired for the role, knowing the community would be better served by someone culturally affiliated with the content.

Notice, I said the community would be better served.
I didn’t say Black people. Indigenous or brown….
I said community!

— Music: … the beat drops

We all miss out on authentic experiences.

Yet so many are silent when it comes to authentic representation in audio description.
Augh shucks, I’m a white person, I can’t really speak about it!

Meanwhile, some of these same people and national organizations
are quick to protest for disabled characters in film to be played by disabled actors.

Are you just concerned with white disabled representation? White authenticity.

–(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice)
Times up!

I said community!

That includes American organizations who claim to be dedicated to creating opportunities for Blind people.

Yet, as they celebrate audio description and honor some of the companies producing the work,
they turn a blind eye to the fact that some of these same companies do very little to create opportunities for Blind AD professionals.

Yeh, I said Blind!
(That’s ableist)

Yeh, isn’t it!

I’m talking about companies that cling to inaccessibility as an excuse.

Why are these organizations silent?

Why would they participate in putting even more obstacles in the way of Blind people trying to enter the industry.
And call it certification.
What’s to gain?

–(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice)
Times up!

I said community!

AD isn’t about those who create it!

I’m especially talking to those who present themselves as altruistic do gooders.
Yet, your actions clearly indicate your main objective is to get as much work as possible.

“How much wood would a wood chuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

For the record, I have no problems with those trying to secure the bag, get that check, make that money…. go get it.

Just stop trying to sell something else to the community.

(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice)
Times up!

We see you!

Blind narrators!

I’m not yelling at you, but it would be nice to hear more of us speak on this.
Go beyond the generic representation conversation and be specific.

If we’re fighting together for an equitable AD industry, then we should really back each other on all the issues.

I recognize that it can seem like a risk to speak out,
but think about it, the companies who aren’t hiring you right now, are probably the greatest offenders.

What do you really have to lose?
— Bomb drops!

What does the community have to gain?

— Increasing swoosh

Relentless is finding a way forward.
Teaming up with those who share your values.

Whether we’re talking about audio description, captions, ASL or any other access, culture and equity matter.
On the screens in theaters at home or in our hands, everywhere and anywhere you find content.

(combine with the overdrive “Times Up”)
Times up on that age old tradition. We’re way over due for a new way of thinking.

I know some people are just going to do what they’re going to do, but I don’t have to accept it.

I don’t have to go along to get along.

— Clock ticking

Relentless is committing to calling y’all out on this nonsense.

Relentless is yelling louder than you.
Turning up the volume in order to drown out your noise with
an inclusive message. One that’s for the full community.
One that highlights and amplifies the work of those who believe in equitable quality access

I might not be able to change this, but I can do something!
— “Do Something” from Michelle Obama’s 2024 DNC speech

TR:
In these next two episodes in the Flipping the Script series, I want to introduce or reintroduce you to
some of those doing the work to make audio description and accessibility represent the real world.
The world that has always consisted of gorgeous colors, rich cultures that go beyond what
quite frankly has been a systemic attempt to prop up so called whiteness as the standard.

(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice)
Times up!

I much prefer producing episodes that highlight cool things happening in AD, like Omnium, like young Eleanor narrating live theater content.
But I’m committed to doing what I can. I’m gonna be relentless.

Or should I say, Relentless!

(Laughing) Come on you had to know I was going to do that right!

I appreciate you listening and encourage you to keep rocking with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts.

We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
There’s no time limit on when you can visit.
We’re up all day and night.
The only restriction is you have to spell it right!
That’s R to the E I D!

— (“D!… And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)

Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:
Hey, what’s up Y’all. Just a quick note that this episode contains real brief mentioning of depression and suicide. But it’s brief! Now onto the episode.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Is there anything that you would want to tell a young Krystle, now, if you could go when you first got diagnosed, ?

Krystle:
I would say to myself that it’s okay. It’s gonna be okay. It’s okay to feel what I’m feeling.

TR:
That’sKrystle Allen. You heard her episode last week, at least you should have. If not, please go check it out. This season in The Art of Adjustment, I’m following each episode featuring a guest with what I’m calling a continuous self-portrait. I’ll take parts of our conversation that connect with my own personal experience and discuss it here with you. It’s a way to move a bit beyond host and producer. I do it occasionally. But we’re family after all, and families share with one another. If you or your family member is adjusting to blindness or any disability for that matter. I know things feel confused, lots of uncertainty and a wide range of emotions going on at the same time. But that uncertainty starts to fade. And yes…

Krystle:
It’s okay. It’s gonna be okay.

TR:
Things start to become Krystle clear. I’m Thomas Reid. Welcome back to Reid My Mind Radio.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
I often ask guests to time travel back to their early days of adjustment and give their younger self some advice on adjusting to disability. It’s not a clever question, but it does allow for reflection. It’s specific to the individual but the advice often applies to others. For Krystle, who went inward and spent a lot of time and quiet thought. I’m sure she had the burning question. Will I be okay?

Here’s the setting from my personal experience with blindness. I just moved into a new home in a new state with a new baby, my six-year-old and my wife. My brother recently passed away and that left my mother alone in the house. Nothing felt “normal”. I realized today, I wasn’t grounded. No wonder it felt like I was having an out of body experience.

Krystle says she was quiet for a year. My blindness came as an adult. A year of silence I don’t think was ever an option for me.

Allow me to reflect.

TR talking to himself:
I’m waiting for my interviewee to arrive. We had an appointment.
Sound of Voice Over on iPhone
pm

— Sound of telephone ringing.

“Hello”
TR:
My guest was actually supposed to join me live in person. It’s all good though. She lives pretty close to the studio.

— Door creaking

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
How are you?

Marlett:
Good.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You wanna state your name for the people

Marlett:
Marlett Reid

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
you want to give an image description?

Marlett:
Oh, wow, I didn’t come prepared to describe myself. Dark skin, oval face full lips.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You know, I do a lot in the area of description and talking about this stuff. seems kind of odd that my wife would not have an image description. If somebody asked me, Hey, Thomas, what’s taxes. I could tell them

Marlett:
Not really.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I can talk about taxes.

— Noise

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Hey! What was that? (Laughing)

Marlett:
The chair. The chair’s going down. That’s not me! (Defensively)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
(Long loud boisterous laugh)

Marlett:
Oh God! (Annoyed)
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Did it fall by itself? Because it sinks. It’s annoying, right?

Marlett:
Yeah.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So I invited you here today to chat a little bit. And I really just mean a little bit. (Laughing)

Marlett:
That’s fine.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So we’re gonna go back. I want to know if you remember after I returned home from the hospital, and I was laid up in the bed like that time. And to be honest with you, I don’t have a lot of memories. I want to know, what do you remember about those first? Let’s say the first month, which was February, it was right around this time. What do you recall about that?

Marlett:
I just remember being sad. I do remember saying to myself okay, I must find a way to fix this.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Fix what?

Marlett:
Find a way where we can get your site back.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:

How did that work out? (Laughing)

Marlett:
It didn’t workout.

Tr
I can joke about this kind of thing today. Marlette well, not so much. I won’t joke about blindness or any aspect of disability with just anyone though. My daughters and I can really find some of these things quite entertaining. But I know they aren’t ableist and I know they don’t see me as less than.

I know my wife doesn’t see me as less than it’s just not what tickles her Funny Bone. Any movie featuring a grown man screaming? Well, she finds that hysterical.

— Scene from “Blank Man” where he gets slapped and screams like a “Girl”.

Marlett:
I was worried about the future. It seemed like you were depressed, you weren’t motivated?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Was that based on anything that I was doing? Because I just got home and I was just like, I was just here , to cut my head open. (Laughs)

Marlett:
Yes, I know they cut your head open. (Reluctant giggle)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Give a brother some time!

Marlett:
I did give you time. but I knew that you can’t stay in that space.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Was there a timeframe? Like, did they tell you okay, “he shouldn’t stay in bed for more than whatever or he needs to get out and start head spinning by three days?” (A mocking voice)
What was your expectation in terms of the time?

Marlett:
Raven was young.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
She was a baby.
Marlett:
right, she was a baby.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Months, like two or three months?

Marlett:
Right! So I wanted to make sure that she kind of got the same experience that Riana got, you know, with daddy daughter day, spending time with daddy. And so far. I felt like, if you stay there, that’s not going to happen. Like, I want you to get up.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I remember her hanging out with me. But go ahead.

Marlett:
yeah, of course. You always been a great dad, you’ve always been great. I cannot take that from you know, even when you weren’t. I always say when you weren’t like fully there. I needed my husband to get up.

TR
Here’s the thing, y’all. I don’t think I was so called down for that long. And it wasn’t necessarily my choice.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So from my recollection, I swear Marlett…

Marlett:
Your what?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Huh!

Marlett:
Your what?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Did I say that wrong?

–The couple laughs

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I’m gonna have to replay that. I’m not even gonna take it out.

recollection. Did I not say that?

But from my that, I swear, it probably wasn’t two weeks, it was probably more than that. But I swear it felt like it

Marlett:
It definitely wasn’t a month. I didn’t give you a month. I remember in my head saying he’s gonna get out of this bed one way or the other.

TR
I wasn’t in the bed. I just wasn’t going out. I mean, I was going out to doctor’s appointments. But that’s it. Where was I supposed to go? In February, after eight days in the hospital as a newly blind person with no blindness skills. But I do understand Marlett’s point and concern. She was looking to get back to normal.

marlett:
If I was going somewhere and everybody would be like where’s your husband? Are you by yourself? Because if I asked you, and even that took a while. So you were just like, Nah, I don’t want to go. I don’t want to do that. This is important. Because prior to that surgery and you coming home on February 4, we didn’t do a lot of stuff.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No, of course not.

Marlett:
And I understand. But that’s an important part of this journey.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You think so?

Marlett:
For me, as to why you want to know why I didn’t give you that much time. Because we were going through it.
(TR Laughing)

Why is that funny?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because!

You’re not saying like we were supposed to be doing something?

Marlett:
weren’t. We weren’t.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because, I had the cancer going on. And everything and we were doing doctor’s visits.

Marlett:
Yeah, that’s about it. Yes.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And we had a new baby.

Marlett:
We had a new baby. And we were just, we were just here in the house.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Okay! And so that so you saying that played a factor in you? Okay. I never even thought that that would but Okay, that’s interesting. You did? Okay. I don’t.

Marlett:
Because remember, we used to do things you would always come up with things to do, because it really was you. And we would do a lot of things.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Ok, All right. Good context. Good context. That’s cool. I’ll accept that. I’ll accept that. So you’re saying that plus the fact that you were like, Yo, you just thought he gonna be depressed, which is probably natural. Yeah. For you to think that and for somebody to feel that.

Marlett:
Yeh, that was fine.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
But you’re saying he ain’t gonna stay there. I’m not gonna give him to the end of February.
Marlett:
I don’t remember the timeframe, as well as you seem to, but I know in my head I was like I’m going to give him two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Okay. All right. So that’s probably why I have that timeframe. So this is probably right. I don’t think we went out but I think you started asking me stuff, bugging me about no disrespect, about going out. What’s the time that you remember going out?

Unknown
)With some delay) I don’t remember.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Well, let me go back. Think about that. Put that in the back burner. And I want to know, what were you hoping to accomplish by telling me that I need to get up and get out?

Unknown
We’re a couple. So if somebody asked me, Oh, can you come over and let’s do this or do that, and they had their spouse, I wanted mine there.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So what were you hoping to accomplish?

Unknown
I wanted you to get out of where you were, I didn’t know where that would lead.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You’re talking about mentally…

Marlett:
I would ask you, are you okay? How do you feel? And you would say that you were fine. You never really told me? You never really talked about it?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
What?

Marlett:
I’m afraid Well, you know, is he thinking suicide. And you would say, I’m fine. In my mind, I’m thinking, Okay, fine. We have to figure all of this out. If he’s upstairs, we can’t figure this out.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Hmm! So this was before the Karen and Shelly.

TR
shout out to both my rehab counselor, and my orientation and mobility instructor. I know across the country in different states, including Pennsylvania, there are all sorts of reasons that delay newly blind people from getting the training they need, yet we expect them to get back out into society without the necessary skills. It took a couple of months for me, and that was mainly due to Marlett’s advocacy. These skills were a crucial part in helping me build back my confidence.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
What do you remember about the first time going out?

Marlett:
? The stairs.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
The stairs?

Marlett:
Yeah, everybody would stair.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh, stairs.

TR
(Chuckles)What a great example of the communication challenges couples face after blindness. Chances are when marlett said stairs, she opened her eyes wide or gestured in some way. If I could see her, I would immediately know that she meant stairs as in watching our every move, not the stairs leading to a new level. Communication is key y’all!

Abbot & Costello
Well, then who’s playing first?
Yeah.
I mean the fellas name on first base.
Who?
The fella playing first base for St. Louis.
Who.
The guy on first base.
Who was on first?
What are you asking me for?

TR in Conversation with Marlett

Where did we go?

Marlettt:
I don’t remember, Sorry.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Nah, ok, okay. I think I do.

Marlett:
Where?

TR
I’m Pretty sure it was Easter. So that means it was actually either the end of March or April, we went to my sister in law’s house. The only thing I recall about that day was the husband of a new neighbor couple that they befriended. We just moved out here. So I didn’t know this guy. He was acting like he knew me. He kept going on about how I need to get out the house saying stuff like we hear Your friends are here.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And I didn’t even think about it until I’m thinking about this now. Was that like the purpose of that? For me to get out the house?

Marlett:
I don’t even think that. I think that came out of his own like…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
so he just assumed this?

Marlett:
I’m guessing so!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I should have punched him in his face.

Marlett:
I don’t know why!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Cause I didn’t know him? And he was talking mad junk. like, Yo, you know, we’re friends, this is what we got to do and it’s like, yo Bee, you don’t know meSon. I just met you. Who are you?

TR
Okay, that was a little much. That’s a lesson in getting caught up in your own conspiracy theory. I mean, who does that? Knowing what I know today, I think this kind gentleman probably meant well, he was trying to be positive. I’m sure he wasn’t comfortable around someone newly blind. That was probably hard for him. I’m sure he didn’t know what to talk about. He was probably just trying to let me know he was on my side.

(Brief pause)

Ahhhh!

Two things can be true at the same time.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I don’t even know you, son.

TR
We weren’t friends. But then again, if we’re gonna keep it real, Crystal reminded me that some friends turn out to not really be friends when disability enters the picture.

Krystle
And I lost a lot of friends at 16 because my friends thought that I was strange. Now that I was losing my eyesight. Because I had a cane. They felt like Krystle you can see you don’t need that cane with you. And I’m like, I do need the cane because I can’t see everything anymore. We were going into a club one time y’all need to take that why you got to take that with you. I’m like because you not gonna hold on to me all night, are you? You know, so some friends. They kind of grew out of our friend season.

TR
Fax.
By the way, I have some thoughts about an episode about the impact of disability on relationships. If you’re interested in sharing some of your stories, hit me up at ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

Marlett:

Thomas in Conversation with Marlett
I’m not interrogating you!

Marlett:
I answered it by saying that this was important because we used to do things together. Go out and this was the plan when we came up here. And we had a hiccup in that plan.

TR
hiccups are annoying, but they pass. Hiccups can be distracting. That’s both to the person experiencing them. And those in earshot.

I watched several newly blind people over the years fall victim to distractions, I worry about those new to blindness today, we have a lot more access in comparison to 20 years ago. Of course, that’s great. But it can also be a real distraction for some.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I think about this. If I had access to the stuff that I have access to now, movies with AD, the books, the…

Marlett:
The books, You were going through …
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I wasn’t going through that many books because it was just those CDs…

Marlett:
Right, and they were just coming in the mail…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, there wasn’t. I had like two, but I didn’t have the NLS yet.

Marlett:
Okay,

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I didn’t have that yet. What I’m saying is that if I had Netflix and stuff like that,

Marlett:
yeah, two weeks!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I would be still in that bed Bee. (Laughing)

Marlett:
We would argue, but I would have said, two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You would have had to take my phone. (Laughs)

TR
I’m not saying that access to these things isn’t valuable. Heck, no. I think it’s more about how we use that access. Temporary healthy escapes are fine, but please, don’t stay there. During my conversation with crystal, I was reminded that what can appear as a distraction may actually contribute to a person moving forward.

Krystle
I think I was silent for almost a year. All I would do is go to sleep. Listen to music. Oh my god tweets southern hummingbird album. That was it. For me. That was my medicine. I used to listen to that all the time in the house. Crystal’s

TR
We know disability requires an adjustment from the individual and their families. It got me wondering, did Marlett have any music that helped her during our early days,

Marlett:
it was a song that I listened to when I was younger. When I would watch you I remember you know, Marlett you did that. When I was going through something, I would just lay on the, like it was a futon or couch or couch or whatever it was called. And I played this one song all the time. The lyrics were written by Charlie Chaplin, Geoffrey Parson, and John Turner. And the person who sang the song was Diana Ross.
— Music starts softly in the background
And the songs name is smile.
(As Marlett recites the lyrics the song’s lyrics are sung in the back ground.)
There’s a section and she says,
Light up your face with gladness
Hide every trace of sadness
Although a tear may be ever so near
That’s the time you must keep on trying
Smile
What’s see use of crying
You’ll find that life is still worthwhile
If you just Smile

And I replay that over and over and over. I know that the song was about strength that we had an ourselves it was also for me to go into that time. So when I would come upstairs, and I was like, he has to smile again.
He has to get up.

TR
I would have never guessed Diana Ross. If anything, I thought it was gonna be Mary J Blige. Marlett, she’s more of a movie person than a music person. Sci-Fi all day.

All forms of art can be encouraging. What’s your thing?
For me, it’s definitely music. Both lyrics and instrumentation. I found myself repeating Chuck D’s line from “Welcome to the Terror dome”. I got so much trouble on my mind. Refuse to lose.
That song just gets me hype for anything. But there were two albums and specific songs that really resonated with me. Kanye West “Jesus Walks that was that old Kanye!
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And I’m not a religious person, you know? But the devil is trying to bring me down. Jesus Walks. Like something’s trying to bring you down. The devil’s trying to bring you … you know that was my mother’s thing, anything that’s negative is the devil.

Marlett:
When things are going good, the devil comes in and he tries to pull you down.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
the other one was when you got me because you thought I would like it, the John Legend CD. You were like, you’re gonna like this. This is your style. And I was like you don’t know my style. (Laughing) And I’m like ah damn, she knows my style.

The couple laughs.

When it’s cold outside there’s no need to worry because I’m so warm inside. You give me peace when the storm’s outside… yeh, that joint. That joint right there! Woo!

— Swoosh effect
TR:
Hey Y’all, not sure if you noticed, but in these last two episodes, there’s been a bunch of references to music or dancing which sort of inherently implies music.
I created a public playlist on Spotify with songs that were inspired by or actually mentioned in these two episodes.
I’ll link you there on this episodes blog post. If you’re on Spotify, search for Dancing with Reid My Mind Radio.
Back to the episode
— Reverse swoosh effect

TR
Art really does play a significant role in our adjustment. multiple roles in fact. Distraction, escape, healing, encouraging, motivating, both as a consumer and a creator.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Thinking about it now, you know a lot more now then you did then about well this experience but in general, I would say mental health. Right? How do you think you would handle that today? What do you think your reaction would be? Would you still have a two week timeframe?

Marlett:
Oh yeah!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You would? (Laughing)

Marlett :
Yeh, hmm hmm, yeh!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So I’m correct in saying I never had a chance to get more than…

Marlett:
No you didn’t. I definitely would have had two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You think two weeks is enough?
Marlett:
I definitely would have two weeks. And not not to get over it. But to get up. So if you think …

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I was up! I wasn’t laying in the bed.

Marlett:
I needed you present. You were not present.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Ok, I may have not been present.

Marlett:
I needed you present. I needed to. I’m not saying that. Two weeks because you would sit a lot in that chair. You had a chair that you were sitting in that chair and I…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I sat on the couch.
on the couch.
Marlett:
It was a chair over here and maybe the couch downstairs, but you sat.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No the chair wasn’t up here that you talked about in the room. That wasn’t up here at that time.

Marlett:
I had a chair on my side and you had a chair…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh wait, wait, wait, way you write you write you write? I didn’t sit in that chair.

Marlett:
You sat in the chair. You sat in that chair, sometimes it would be all the way back. And I was like Oh, he’s got to get up outta there.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh, maybe I did. Damn, now I don’t remember.
I remember being downstairs.

Marlett:
You weren’t really downstairs too much.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I was watching Comedy Central.

Marlett:
Okay!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
That wasn’t up here oh, maybe I had it up here too. Oh, you might be right.
I don’t know if I’m going to use any of this. (Giggles)

Marlett:
Huh!

TR
The small details that we think are so important at a given time, apparently fade away. I guess they don’t really matter. What I get now is that my wife just wanted her husband. How can I be upset with that?
Two weeks. That’s it y’all!

— Music begins A mellow romantic groove.?
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Yeah. I was a little angry about the two weeks. But I feel like because I was thinking that two weeks was to go and get out. And I feel like you’re right. It was just to get up. And then to get moving. Damn, this might make me look bad.
look bad. But it is what it is. It’s the real truth.

Marlett:
Did you think you were perfect?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No.

Marlett:
Is that your ego?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No.

Marlett:
So what is it then? For you to think that you deserved more time than what you got? Why? Why would you think that?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because it was hard.

TR
It was hard because I wasn’t ready? Like Krystle said in the beginning.

Krystle
It’s okay to feel what I’m feeling.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I guess you get props for this then.
Well, thank you. (Kiss)

Marlett:
I think that was my job to do as your wife.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
That’s cool. I could still say thank you.
TR
Shout out to eyes like mine, Krystle Allen for inspiring this episode.

Shout out to the Queen of the Reid Compound, My wife of just about 30 years y’all Marlett. I appreciate you sharing your time. It’s tax season. So she extra busy right now. But also sharing your truth.

Since we’re talking about sharing, why not share this podcast with your friends and family? There’s lots of folks out there adjusting to disability individuals and their families. And yes, of course, there’s some real challenges. I just think it’s easier when you don’t go it alone.

That’s why we’re here.

Now here’s what you can say to your friends and family.

Hey, fill in the blank. I need to tell you about this dope podcast I just know you’re going to dig. It’s called Reid My Mind Radio. You can find it wherever you get podcasts. They have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
Check this. You have to know how to spell it the right way. I mean, it’s really the only way.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You want to do the sign off?

Marlett:
Sure.

R to the E I D!

D, D,D! (Giggles)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You don’t do that part!

The couple laughs!

Marlett:
Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Marlett:
peace

Hide the transcript

TR: 00:00
I had an art teacher when I was in elementary school who made such an impression on me that I’ll never forget her. I decided I’ll always mention her whenever I can. She seemed to take many opportunities to point out that I was not very good at art. Insisting that my cutouts were sloppy, my glue game was awful. And let’s not talk about coloring or painting. She never once asked or considered why. She never made an attempt to help me improve. I wasn’t blind at the time. But I did have real trouble seeing the lines. I literally couldn’t color within them.

It wasn’t until late college that I realized I not only couldn’t see myself as a creative, artful person, but I couldn’t believe anyone who said otherwise. Then I met Professor Wilson who also singled me out in class. This time using my essays as an example of thoughtful, creative writing. I remember thinking he must be confusing the papers. He said my name, but he’s probably referring to somebody else.

Teachers make a big difference.

That elementary teacher, she didn’t care about me. She just cared about staying within the lines. Professor Wilson recognized something in me that unfortunately took a long time for me to see and believe in myself. Did I mentioned teachers make a difference y’all.

My name is Thomas Reid. I’m the host and producer of this here Podcast. I’m bringing you a bit of a PSA. Be mindful of who you choose as your teacher. They may not be worthy of you.

Let’s go.

Reid My Mind Radio Theme Music

Maria Jose 02:07
I’m very excited to be here. My name is Maria Jose Garcia Vizcaino. I’m from Spain. I am professor at Montclair State University in the Department of the Spanish and Latino Studies. I teach audio visual translation and audio description in Spanish and in English. I am a middle aged woman brown curly hair with glasses.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 02:30
How did you get into audio description.

Maria Jose 02:32
My three siblings in Spain in Madrid, they work for the O.N.C.E which is the National blind organization. One of my siblings is legally blind. So I have many friends and acquaintances who are visually impaired. And I wasn’t aware of audio description but not so much until let’s say 10 years ago. And I became really interested in the field and how to incorporate that to my teaching, because I teach a language and that’s a perfect linguistic application right there, among other things, so I decided to get more information and more training on audio description.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 03:10
that began with the ACB audio description project training class. Then she started consuming her content with description when available, and even found ways of incorporating the practice. And of course, she taught on audio video Translation and Subtitling. All of this led to her first class dedicated to audio description in both Spanish and English held this spring semester 2022

Maria Jose 03:32
We are using the Visual Made Verbal by Joel Snyder and more than meets the eye what Linus can bring to art by Georgina Kleege . We want to have a combination of the more standard rules of restriction, and also the more creative subjective way. The class is divided in three groups of students who are working in three different fields. I have students who are working in audio description for the theater for live performances. I have another group of students who are working in art museums. And I have another group of students who are doing short films.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 04:07
Already this class distinguishes itself from other an AD trainings, which are often very specialized. teaching the course in a university setting over several months really allows for an immersive experience. Students choose their focus from the areas of concentration, theater, music, and film. They’re then grouped into teams and work on real world projects. Plus, Maria Jose is combining the creative with the compliance. So you know, she has my attention. For more on what those differences mean. Make sure you check out the episode earlier in the season titled Audio Description in the Making.

Maria Jose 04:43
The group that is working with the audio description in the theater, we just had our play in the repertory Espanol, which is an off Broadway theater in New York City. They show plays all in Spanish. And this is a partnership that we started In 2019, this is our third play with audio description in Spanish for them. It was on Saturday, April, that period, it was a group of eight students, they did everything. They prepare pre show tactile experience, which was wonderful. One of the students reach Maralis, he made a replica of the stage with all the furniture stick to the floor so that the blind people could touch them without moving them. So he replicated everything.

TR: 05:30
We’re talking about the full set design down to the roses in a vase which play a symbolic role in the play. Notice this tactile pre show component is considered part of the full audio description experience.

Maria Jose 05:41
The students also of course, prepare the script. And I supervise them they have multiple meetings, many hours of rehearsal with this great because of course, it’s like performance, we needed to prepare in advance. So we had a video of the play that could give us an idea of the spaces that we have in between dialogues to describe one of the students or the guy you’ll find, yeah, she was the voice over talent. And she was in the booth with another students Gabriela vinco, who helped her they did a fantastic job. This is a live performance. So they had to improvise some things and omit others and add some information that they didn’t prepare in advance because they didn’t know that from the video.

Sample AD in Spanish06:31

TR: 06:45
Following the performance, there was a Q & A which included the theaters Executive Director Raphael Sanchez, the plays director Lemma Lopez and the entire cast.

Maria Jose 07:00
So he’s saying that this is something that should happen in all the theaters doesn’t matter off Broadway on Broadway in New York in Spanish planning.

TR: 07:08
While the Q&A is important to gain real feedback in order to continuously improve. It can prove to do even more for relationship building,

Maria Jose 07:16
for example, people from the cast after the Q & A, they were interacting with us with the students asking questions. Then we went for drinks with them. Right next to the theater, there is a bar. So we come with a conversation there. And it was fantastic. The vibration, the energy, the energy that was between the students, sighted people, non-sighted people, the cast, the director, it was amazing. And one of the actresses was so impressed that she came to campus yesterday.

TR: 07:48
It’s worth noting that the full class is about 20 people. Again, they’re not all working on the same projects. Therefore, each group is responsible for presenting their projects to the full class.

Maria Jose 07:59
The challenges, the difficulties of the project and how they solve it. So this actress Sandra will meet you. She came to campus, she was one of the actresses in the play her feedback, her comments and her presence there yesterday was amazing. It was very nice to have her because it’s like the two ends of the process. The creative people doing the play, and then the creative people doing the audio description together.

TR: 08:23
The students working on describing the play dedicate a significant amount of time to the project. Travel to NYC alone can be an undertaking. Maria, Jose has options for those who perhaps have tighter schedules.

Maria Jose 08:35
It’s up to the students. So people who didn’t want to go to New York wanted to work at home. It’s very easy to work with short films. So I propose a collection of short films in Spanish and English and they can choose sacrifice fluency working one for children in Spanish. Another one is working with Banco Santander, one of the short films that they have done to promote a banking campaign, which is a science fiction film, actually. Another is doing a short film, which is a brand film for our brands Larios, which is a gene like a drink so it’s more like advertising. So there are different types of short films, all of them from 10 to 15 minutes.

TR: 09:16
The second area of focus students can choose is museums.

Maria Jose 09:20
It’s a recent partnership that we have done with the Montclair art museum. So we have three students working with the art gallery in the university. And we have two students working with the Montclair Museum in two different projects. The two students who are in the moped Art Museum are doing something that is pretty cool. Very, very, very difficult. It’s a 30 minute video only visuals.

TR: 09:45
The video consists of abstract images, family photos, sound design, and music, but absolutely no dialogue.

Maria Jose 09:52
So the audio description has to be made in a very particular way. Because you don’t want to interfere with the sound too much. This is not at all like The other group of people are doing Museum in the art gallery. They are describing representational paintings of people and landscapes. I encouraged the two students who are doing this. Michelle Robledo Moreno and so it Omitsu to be creative, to be led and be guided by the emotions they experience when they are watching and listening to the video. There are parts of the video which are very scary, and there is tension. And there are parts that are playful and whimsical and joyful. But some parts are like Hominem and it scares you sometimes to hear those sounds. So I encourage them to create and to mimic those visual effects with their voices.

Sample of student project 10:52

TR: 11:11
Another group of students worked with the university’s George Segal gallery to provide description for a series of paintings by artists Jamal coho, titled Black Wall Street, a Case for Reparations, the paintings out of the memory of the black men, women and children from the thriving Greenwood neighborhood in Tulsa, Oklahoma, murdered in 1921 by white terrorists during what’s considered one of this country’s largest racially motivated massacres.

TR in a filtered voice:
I mean, if you’re not including slavery, the Middle Passage, the genocide of Native Americans You get the picture, right?

TR:
The paintings were inspired by Olivia hooker a Greenwood survivor coho was able to interview before she died in 2018 and 103 years old. For the series of paintings, coho called on black professionals from his Brooklyn neighborhood to represent the people of Tulsa. He designed the sets and wardrobe paying homage to a reimagined pass where this Black independent community thrived.

Maria Jose 12:06
Three of my class students are doing nine paintings. And other paintings are going to be done by students in the Disability Studies program in the Department of Anthropology, under the supervision of Dr. Elaine Gerber, who is also a colleague of mine, and very involved in the audio description movements, and practice and of course, their historical context, which is the main objective of the exhibition to raise awareness and to let people know what happens. The title of the exhibition is Black Wall Street A Case for Reparations

TR: 12:41
students even had the opportunity to hear directly from the artist. e

Maria Jose 12:45
We met him two weeks ago in the closing ceremony, introduce him to my students. And he was so thrilled, and we were asking him questions about what would you prefer to say, because we are gonna be providing two or three minutes only. So you have to be very selective. There is so much that you can say about this painting. He said, You have to mention the historical context. And you have to mention what happened. And I remember some of the paintings have like a smoke underneath. And you have to mention the smoke because it makes an allusion to the bombs and the massacre. He introduced us to the models, who were there in the closing ceremony, the models of the paintings was amazing.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 13:27
This is all within a semester.

Maria Jose 13:29
Totally. I mean, I am so overwhelmed. And because of that, like so many things going on so many connections for the students is like mind blowing experience, because they are meeting so many people from different fields, music, arts, theater, and then it’s an opportunity for them for future career paths, and future job opportunities at the same time.

TR: 13:53
This is not the type of class that an instructor can just show up and repeat the same lecture year after year. A big part of the class not only encourages, but originates with relationships.

Maria Jose 14:06
Why the short films are not my connection. The short films are short films that I found interesting. Visual and liquid people probably ascription for example, the theater Yes, the theater was a partnership that we created in 2019, with a repertory Espanol and I sent an email to the director. He was the artistic director, profile sunset, and now he’s the executive director. You have all your plays in Spanish with no description, we want to make these closer to the Spanish speaking blind community in New York. We can collaborate.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 14:39
The opportunities for collaborating are often within reach, starting with the areas that are of interest to you. For Maria Jose, that’s her love of art.

Maria Jose 14:48
I started my training as a docent five, six months ago, from the very beginning, I said that my interest was to train other docents in audience picture for the museum. They weren’t totally on From the very beginning, they didn’t have any experience at all with audio description. In March, I had my first two as a docent with a group of blind people from the vision loss Alliance in New Jersey, they are very active with cultural events. So a group of 1215 Visually Impaired visitors came to the museum. And we had an exhibition with an explanation of this picture. More like in Georgina Kleege’s approach of interactive audio description, participatory audio description. not the typical like the Dawson’s gives the speech and all the visually impaired people are listening in silence. No, this was a conversation.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 15:41
Is that something that you plan to do periodically?

Maria Jose 15:44
I would love to. Maybe it’s not something that I can do, like every month or something like that. But at least once or twice per semester?

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 15:52
I need to know about this. You’re not that far from me. Read my mind radio, road trip. What do you think family? That could be an amazing episode. I mean, sharing is caring. Right?

Maria Jose 16:05
I try always to involve my students. For example, when the vision loss Alliance, they came for the tour, every single time I’m doing all these little things, I always share them with my class. Sometimes nobody can sometimes two, three people, I always invite them,

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 16:21
La Professora also sees the value in road trips.

Maria Jose 16:25
There is a movie theater in Montclair, that I am part of the disability committee. They have everything with a description. And they’re very good with the equipment we review a couple of times this semester after the class, we have gone to the movies as a group and I say to the manager, listen, Mark, we’re going to be tonight or we gonna next week. Do you have 20 equipment’s? Sometimes they don’t have 20. So he said, Yes, Maria Jose. So give me a couple of days, I can bring them from another movie theater or whatever. So they have the equipment’s prepared so that they know that we are coming, and we’ll listen to the movie with the audio description. And then we had dinner after the movie theater and we comment from the quality control point of view. Do you think this option was right was wrong? Why? So this course is very applied. We have fun.

TR: 17:18
In addition to the road trips, Maria Jose invites guest lecturers with real and diverse practical experience, adding even more value

Maria Jose 17:26
Nefertiti Matos Oliveras, you know her she came to the University gave a wonderful lecture followed by a workshop. I met her from the first place that we did, we did a Victoria spaniel in 2019. I met her when she was working for the New York Public Library. Thanks to Nefertiti we could have all the programs in Braille for the play. And she also made that possible in this one last Saturday,

TR: 17:53
not surprising when you know of Nefertiti’s commitment to access to the arts and Braille literacy in general. If you haven’t yet checked out her episode, earlier this season. Let me tell you right now, I highly recommend it.

Maria Jose 18:08
She talked about the process of writing a script and doing the voice over doing that by blind people. That is something that Dr. Romero fresco from University of Vigo in Spain, he advocates for people with disabilities, it doesn’t matter close captioning or audio description , they should be involved in the process, creating the audio description creating the captions Nefertiti talks about that.

TR: 18:30
And it just so happens that Maria Jose has a blind student in her class.

Maria Jose 18:34
And what a coincidence. Her last name is Matos. She’s from Dominican Republic as well, but they are not related. My students who relate to what Nefertiti’s talking about being blind, being immersed in the process from the very beginning, creating the accessibility. And she was talking about the challenges of doing this and how she solved them.

Then this lecture was followed by our workshop, where students in groups of four or five people Nefertiti suggested to have four people doing the four roles of audio description; the writing of the script, the voice over the quality control, and the editing and sound engineering.

So we group four people, and they have to do the first 30 seconds of trailer of the last movie of Star Wars. Some of them did in Spanish. Some of them did it in English, after half an hour Nefertiti was going around, giving feedback. And after that, we compare the versions and you have the Spanish from Spain, Spanish from Mexico, Spanish from Argentina, (laughs) to compare. In my class, I have students from all different Spanish speaking countries. That was very interesting. We had a great time with Nefertiti. We learned so much.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 19:50
This is a 400 level course available to junior seniors and graduate students in Montclair University in New Jersey. So far, we see several benefits of learning AD in this environment, not only can it be fun with the right Profesora, but there’s attention paid to all of the skills involved in assuring quality audio description,

Maria Jose 20:09
The set of skills are diverse. So you know that they are part of the writing the script, editing, quality control voice over in the case of the theater, tactile experience, reaching out to the community, publicizing the events, interacting with people in the theater explaining to them how the equipment works. Some of the students in the group, they are very good with people, they are good at greeting people when they come to the theater explaining to them the audio description equipment, some of them are very shy and don’t want to be involved. They’re very good at writing, quality control, I can place them in roles that they feel comfortable, and that they are going to excel in those roles. But not everybody can do the same thing.

TR: 20:52
What if everyone not only brought their own set of skills to the table, but they also brought that love?

Maria Jose 20:58
Someone says once that if you really love what you do, you will not work one single day of your life and I totally agree with that.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 21:06
What is it about audio description that you love?

Maria Jose 21:09
I think there’s many things, the observational skills part, It makes or forces me to pay attention to details, or be more observant. The second thing that I love is the selective thinking in lexical choices. What verb are you going to use what adjective or what adverb is going to give you in a very short time? That image that you exactly want to convey? Linguistic aspect it’s like crafting the language.

TR: 21:39
Maria Jose uses AED as a learning tool in her early level Spanish classes as well.

Maria Jose 21:45
I play movies in Spanish with a description in Spanish. And I pass surveys to them. And I asked them if they understood the movie better with audio description , and why and what aspects? And most of the answer are yes, I didn’t know that this verb could be used for this action. Or I understand it better because it made me aware of parts that would go unnoticed. So, a Spanish language is improved through the restriction. That’s a pedagogical application of audio description to improve a second language.

TR: 22:20
Recognizing the opportunities that real world interactions present, Maria Jose makes certain to survey audience members. Feedback received during the live theatre performance at the Theatre Company in NYC as to what many of us already know, AD has benefits that go beyond informing those who are blind or have low vision from enabling multitasking to helping some recognize the significance of gestures or facial expressions. Some of Maria Jose’s research is examining what we can learn about cultural differences.

Maria Jose 22:52
Why you see a character in the movie, smoking a cigarette in the Spanish description. They don’t say anything in English or your kitchen. They say he’s smoking a cigarette. So different characterizations, depending on different cultures, because maybe in Spain everybody smokes. So it’s not such a relevant trait in the moment.

TR: 23:09
This research for an article she wrote titled Getting the Full Picture in English and Spanish where she examined the audio described characters in Netflix’s elite.

Maria Jose 23:19
I was doing that comparison between the English and Spanish description. If different cultures are gonna emphasize or highlight aspects of a character certain physical traits that in another language they wouldn’t emphasize. it interested me for someone who is always paying attention to Spanish and English nuances of the language.

TR: 23:39
This made me curious about the differences in Spanish dialects spoken throughout Latin America, the Caribbean and Spain.

Maria Jose 23:45
For example, in the play, one of the main characters he’s wearing a jacket for this play is placed in the Caribbean, they will say Sacco and to Spanish people from Spain circle is another thing, but we want it to be in accordance with the character. So if the character says Sacco, we’re gonna say sacco. But of course, there is someone in the audience from Spain out of the context, you’re gonna infer that that’s a Jacquetta. That’s a jacket.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 24:10
It’s another example of cultural competence at that point.

Maria Jose:
Exactly.

TR:
Wow. Look where we ended up. I didn’t even plan that. It just proves what I will continue to shout.
TR filtered sounds as in stadium making an announcement to crowd:
“Audio Description is about much more than entertainment.”

TR:
When La profesora is not teaching the art of audio description, or any of her other classes for that matter. She’s making her own art.

Maria Jose 24:33
I discovered plain air painting five, six years ago. Wow, rich painting retreats, but outdoors, what they call Plein Air, which is what the Impressionist painters they painted outside to be able to capture the light in a fast way. So you have to pace very fast because the light that you have now you’re not going to happen in 15 minutes. I completely fell in love with the technique. You have to pay really fast to capture A moment you paint a landscape, you paint what you see. So, it has to do with description as well.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 25:05
Now, after you’re done painting, do you provide an image description for your painting?

Maria Jose 25:09
Maybe when I have my first exhibition, I will have everything with audio description in English and Spanish. Of course,

TR: 25:16
that’s right audio description on everything in every language, because blind people are everywhere. And we deserve access. If you want to learn more about this immersive and applied course, in audio description in Spanish and English, or maybe get in touch with Maria Jose, start with the Montclair State University website@montclair.edu.

Maria Jose 25:43
And within that, you can go to the Department of Spanish, Spanish and Latino studies have their own YouTube channel, YouTube and Spanish and Latino Studies,

TR: 25:52
I’ll have links on this episode’s blog post. Plus if you’re on Instagram,

Maria Jose 25:55
my name is GarciaVizCam. Garcia is GARCIA V as in Victor I Z as in Zebra. C as in Charlie, a. m like Maria.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 26:08
Well, let me tell you something professora. Oh, want to let you know that you are an official member of the Reid my Mind Radio family because you were so kind enough to come over here and talk about your amazing class. Personally, I think you should be teaching audio description to everybody.

TR:
On the day of our interview Maria Jose was feeling a bit under the weather. She was worried about coughing on the microphone. By the time we were done. I noticed she never once coughed.

Maria Jose 26:38
I was thinking about that. My cold literally disappears.

TR in Conversation with Maria Jose: 26:42
Reid My Mind Radio we take care of calls to okay, maybe that’s going a bit too far. Read my mind radio cannot heal people in any way. But let’s take a look at what we did cover this season. And flipping the script on audio description. We went into the lab specifically, the access in the making lab where we examine this idea of creative audio description versus compliance. Spoiler alert. It doesn’t have to be any sort of competition. They really can work together.

If there’s one thing you can count on from flipping the script, and quite honestly, Reid My Mind Radio in general we want 100% without no doubt, support and encourage the participation of blind people in all aspects of audio description. That’s why I knew I had to get our sister Nefertiti Matos Olivaras on the podcast. A must listen for any blind person truly interested in getting into AD in any capacity. She’s dropping game if you’re listening.

Always interested in expanding the AD conversation. We reached out to actor writer designer podcast Natalie Trevonne to discuss access to fashion via audio description and more.

And wrapping it up with a bright red bow. Now Professor Maria Jose Garcia Vizcaino, actually combining the creative and compliance approach plus making sure it’s done with love.

The season actually kicked off with an editorial from yours truly, once again sparked by the lack of culturally appropriate casting of AD narrate is still taking place in audio description. I mentioned I was drafting a pledge for all of those who see audio description as a microcosm of the world. We profess to have won a world that recognizes all of our beauty and strength without putting one group over the other. Perhaps this is the right time to take the pledge. I’m asking you listener, transcript reader, audio description consumer, professional, benefactor, all of us who really want to flip the script on audio description, head on over to https://bit.Ly/ADPledge where the ADP are capitalized, no spaces or drop in and ReidMyMind.com and I’ll link you to the pledge. add your name to the list and make sure you confirm your name being added by clicking on the link in the resulting email. If you don’t see the email, check your spam folder.

As I used to tell my daughter as I tried cooking something for the first time, baby girl. I don’t know how this is gonna turn out but we’re gonna try it anyway…

I want to send a special shout out to my man Tony Swartz for his help with editing this episode once again. I appreciate you sir, salutes!

This is the last episode of the season and I hope to be back in September but man a brother starting to feel like he needs a break. Maybe I’ll head out to a beach somewhere and sip a Mai Tai, but I lounge and my shorts and chancletas.

In the meantime, if you haven’t yet, subscribe to the podcast. I’d appreciate you going over to wherever you get your podcasts, including YouTube and subscribe or follow us you can get transcripts and more over at ReidMyMind.com. To get there, it’s mandatory that you spell it right. That’s R to the E I D!

Sample:
“D, and that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick

Like my last name.

Music fades out…
Cell phone buzzing and ringing.

iPhone Voice Over:
“Ann Cerfonne”…

TR in conversation…
“What…”
“Hello?”

TR:
I guess I’ll have to tell you about that one, next time”

Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace.

Hide the transcript

TR:

Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Before we get into this latest episode, I need your help.
I want to take Reid My Mind Radio to the next level,
that’s making it a sustainable venture.
But I need to know more about you, the listener.
I’d really appreciate if you could take a few moments to fill out
a quick survey. Just go to ReidMyMind.com and hit the link that says , hmm, what should I call it?… Survey!

— Pulsating Swoosh Transition sound

Welcome, to another installment of Reid My Mind Radio. i’m your host Thomas Reid and thank you for joining me.

In this second to last installment of the Flipping the Script on Audio Description series, we’re discussing topics related to sex.
— Music begins, a slow, sentuous R&B track…

I’m not saying it’s X rated, but I am saying its for the Blind, the grown and yes, (– An orgasmic “Yes” from “When Harry Met Sally”) the sexy!

You don’t actually have to be Blind or even consider yourself sexy, but I do want you to know that in this episode, we say some words, discuss and suggest some things.

— A woman’s orgasmic moan. From “When Harry Met Sally”

Let’s get it on!
— Reid My Mind Theme Music

— A scene from Fifty Shades of Gray where a man is undressing a woman… being described

TR in Conversation with Pratik:
I think it was December of 2020. Do you remember?

Pratik:

I kind of generally remember the, the gist of what I was tweeting out. I remember watching a Netflix show. And there were a couple of sex scenes in it. And the narrator of the audio described content, basically used the same phrase again and again. They kiss passionately, they kiss passionately, they kiss passionately

Even though from the context you can tell that there was some other things going on. And I found that to be a bit stale.

TR:

This is Pratik Patel.

Pratik:

I am a 43 year old Asian cisgender Male. I have someone medium length, dark hair, brown skin. I’m five, eight. And on the thin side these days.

I own a small business that deals with digital accessibility in different products, websites, applications, as well as working with companies and in different organizations on integrating people with disabilities in their employment contexts.

TR:

Access, employment, hell yes, that’s grown and sexy!

Sex scenes in film and television have become way more prevalent especially with providers like HBO, Netflix and others who
are pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable on screen.
So what does that mean for Audio Description consumers?

Pratik:
I found a significant gap in what should be conveyed while describing a sex scene, and what was conveyed while describing a sex scene perhaps because it was the narrator not being comfortable. Or rather, the idea that disabled people or Blind people don’t really need description, even though, that may not be stated outright, it’s an idea that can still persist in people’s minds.

TR:

Hey, come in close, I have a secret to share with you. Blind people, Disabled people are sexual.
But, let’s take our time here and explore that gap.

Pratik:

I was looking at a review of a movie that I had just watched basic instinct 2, it had come out in 2005 2006. It had descriptions in the UK, and that was how I first encountered it.

It has quite a bit of sexual content in it.

There’s this scene between the main female character Catherine, played by Sharon Stone. And the main male character was a psychiatrist providing her therapy.

In one of the scenes, she is speaking to her therapist, and she knows that the therapist is attracted to her.

TR:

A highly sexual being, Stone’s character that is, is dressed in a short skirt.

— Audio from scene in Basic Instinct 2:
AD Narrator:
“She glances over her shoulder with a smoldering predatory expression, then drags the chair into the middle of the room. She straddles the chair with the with the back in front of her and hoists her dress up revealing her thighs.”

Sharon Stone Character:

“When you think about fucking me and I know you do…”

TR in Conversation with Pratik: 10:12
So she’s sitting with her legs open.

Pratik:10:16
Yes.

She has this entire monologue with a therapist. And in the background, you hear a sound, a rhythmic sound.

— Sample from the scene plays in the background.

And at the end of the scene, the narrator says…

— From Basic Instinct 2 AD Narrator:
“Suddenly, she stops touching herself.”

Pratik:

In some ways, the US version is even worse, because it doesn’t even tell you that she was touching herself.

In some cases, when the scene is moving really fast, and there isn’t enough time between dialog, I can understand that you leave out some information.
But it’s not the case in this and other shows or movies that I’ve seen. There’s plenty of gap.

TR in Conversation with Pratik:
no pun intended with the gap. Sorry.

(TR & Pratik share a silly laugh)

TR:

Ok, I never said I was grown!

Maybe you have experienced watching a film with a sighted person who can easily point out these gaps.
That’s the difference between what’s taking place on screen and what’s being described.

Pratik:

It brings up multiple points not only not having that information, but the context the artistic expression of that scene, you know, sometimes sex is sex is sex, but other times especially in movies like that sex is used for effect right? And not describing that is a bit of a travesty. I think.

— Music begins, a slow, sentuous Hip Hop groove

TR:

Let’s flip this, and explore from another angle.

Bojana:

I feel so often, when I’m reading alt text there isn’t much joy or delight. When there could be.

I have started to use Alt Text as Poetry as a lens to look at everything else that I’m engaging in.

TR:

That’s artis , Bojana Coklyat.
One half of Alt Text as Poetry,
who focus on getting people to think creatively when it comes to descriptions and access in general.

Fellow artist Shannon Finnegan makes up the other half of this dynamic duo.

Shannon:

We talk a lot about this idea of attention to language and just being aware and intentional about what the tone of the writing is, or what words are you using, jargon or slang.
Thinking about how that tone relates to the tone of the material or the image?
Trying out different things and learning from each other and not defaulting to one way of writing.

Some people have an association with poetry as super flowery language or kind of inaccessible. We don’t mean poetry in that sense. Access is at the core.
It’s more about bringing an intentional and creative mindset to it rather than writing a sonnet.

TR:

Shout out to Reid My Mind Radio alumni and family member, Cathy Kudlick who pointed me to Alt Text as Poetry.

The two each bring valuable perspective to this subject.
Bojana herself is a person living with low vision.

Bojana:

I am also a project manager at the museum of Art and Culture Access Consortium.
I am a white woman with short brown hair cut into a bob. I’m wearing a black cardigan. A red shirt with white polka dots behind me is a boring tan wall.
I use she her pronouns.

TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon: 01:17
Shannon?

Shannon:

I am disabled, but my disability is physical. So it mostly affects my kind of walking and movement. I’m sighted which I think is important to clarify in the context of Alt Text as Poetry that I approach this material in terms of cross disability solidarity.
I am a white person with short hair. I’m in my studio. So I’m in the middle of a big art project. So I’m dressed for comfort.
I use they them pronouns.

TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon:
You two superheroes, Tell me about the origin story of Alt Text as Poetry?

Bojana:

I love it. So can we make some outfits? I want some outfits.

TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon:

Yeh, you should. And you have to describe them! (laughs)
Bojana:

Oh, yes, exactly. And they have to be tactile…

I was working on my master’s focusing on disability studies and art administration. Kevin Gotkin was trying to organize something around disability nightlife. So I went to that event. Me and Shannon, chit chatted a little bit. And we connected from there.

Shannon:

I was a resident at a place called IBEAM, that focuses on like, artists thinking about technology, and had just started formulating this idea of Alt Text as Poetry and felt like Bojana had a lot to add to the project.

We kind of came to this idea of Alt Text as Poetry, in contrast to the compliance oriented way of thinking about access generally, and certainly alt text that feels very dry and perfunctory and kind of like minimum effort and really doesn’t feel engaging or truly welcoming.
— Music ends

We started talking about this project as a way of creating time and space for conversation about text and image description. Not coming to it with like, Oh, we know all the answers about how to write the best image description, but much more like, wow, there’s a lot of questions and a lot of interesting things that come up in this process. And it would really be great to hear from other people.

Bojana:
I don’t have anything as exciting as like, you know, being exposed to gamma radiation and giving us Alt Text powers.

TR:

Well, we’ll see some of that power in description. Whether alt text or AD.

For now, Bojana shares some of her experience with what she describes as a sexy , romantic period drama, Bridgerton.

Bojana:

They never mentioned nudity. The love scenes they never really described very sexily.

I think it was like the final movie moment where the Duke and I can’t remember his love interest name, but they’re finally together in bed. And like, we’ve been waiting for this for how many episodes …
The audio describer is like , and the Duke is thrusting, repeatedly. Staying thrusting. And it was like the most detached, non sexy description of two people who have been so intensely attracted to each other. And I will never forget it.

Pratik:
I find that describers aren’t always conveying the context when it comes to describing sex scenes.

I’m sure you’ve heard of the 50 Shades of Grey trilogy. Terrible movie by the way, and terrible set of books. The only one I saw was the first one. I saw the UK version, I didn’t compare it to the US. But mostly the describer does a fantastic job of conveying the information of the movie, the context, and the sex scenes. But I found that the narrator was a bit shy. It felt like she was cringing when describing the scenes.

TR:

I could imagine the narrators comfort level could affect some Blind consumers.

Pratik, who was involved with early advocacy for the CVAA,
recognizes the difference between the quality of the movie and that of the audio description.

But what other aspects impact a viewer?

TR in Conversation with Pratik:

Let’s say it was really good description, would it make a difference for you to get that description from a man or a woman?
Pratik:

That’s a good question. I don’t think so. The accent does make a difference though.

For me, I find the UK accent to be highly sexy, especially female UK accents.

TR in Conversation with Pratik:

What about the texture of the voice? You know, tone?

Pratik:

The tone, ? Yeah.
TR in Conversation with Pratik:

So it does make a difference. So you wouldn’t want Roseanne Barr? (Laughs…)

Pratik:

No. Okay. Some people might find that sexy.
TR in Conversation with Pratik:

Woooo!!
Okay, no judgment!
Pratik:

When we talk about quality, I’m talking more about the content itself. Not the person delivering it. That’s highly subjective.

TR:

This is consistent with what we say, the most important piece of audio description is the writing.

Pratik:

What do you include in the kind of detail of two naked people that could get you the same context, that can give you the same information that’s being conveyed to the sighted people.

TR:
Shannon has some thoughts on this.

Shannon:

What’s wild to me is I have experienced very sexy descriptions in books. Right now I’ve been listening to the audio book, Red, White and Royal Blue, which is like a romance novel. And it’s extremely sexy.

Going back to the bridgerton example. It was a book that was adapted into a TV show and I haven’t read the books, but I was actually thinking recently it would be interesting to do that.

I’m sure there’s licensing and copyright issues around why maybe some of that language couldn’t be brought into the audio description, but how cool if that could be mixed in?

TR:

So we do have examples of language to fill the gap!

Shannon:

It’s just somehow that’s not when it comes to it as an access practice. There’s a different frame or something. I think for me, it also pushes up against this thing of like, a kind of infantilization of disabled people that always feels very dehumanizing to me.
Bojana:

Just remembering something in a book by Georgina Klieg, in “More Than Meets the Eye: What Blindness Brings to Art.” She was talking about a movie, I can’t remember what it was called.

TR:

The book is available on BARD and I’ll link to it on Bookshare on this episode’s blog post.
The movie is “The Sessions” and during a love scene, Helen Hunt’s character takes off her clothes.

Bojana:
I think it says she takes off her clothes, but does not describe her naked body at all, when other things have been described.

I think it’s the infantilization. And also the stigma attached that, oh, why would Blind people be interested in that. They’re not thinking about sex. That’s not something we should be talking about, maybe it could be offensive.

I think sighted people assume that human beings can only take in information through their eyes, and ears, and they forget about the other senses, and how important those are.

There’s real value in not only recognizing the ways we take in information but also all the ways we communicate.

Shannon:

Podcasts or books or literature or hearing from a friend about something they saw on vacation or things like that, like description is really all around us. And somehow all of that creative energy isn’t always getting there when it’s specifically around access.

— Music begins, a bass heavy, pulsating groove

Pratik:

When we talk about sexuality, there’s such variation in people’s preferences in terms of what they practice and in terms of what they’re attracted to, that it’s hard for us to say, this is what we should describe first. But I think the best way for us to look at and the best way for us to think about it is to look at different communities, sex positive communities, and to advocate for getting more description from individuals who posted and just different groups. For example, I know that a lot of kink communities tend to be pretty aware of disability issues. And when you point it out, they’ll start to think about how to make those spaces accessible.

Danielle:

Hi. I’m Danielle Montour. I am 24. I work primarily in accessibility and sex education. I’m getting into the kink education space as well.

TR:

Danielle and I share something in common.

Danielle:

I was born with bilateral retinoblastoma. I do not have any eyes anymore.

Let’s see, image description.

So right now I’m probably a little bit lighter than olive. So I have a warmer undertone type of skin. I am relatively petite. But I have a curvy build. I have hazel eyes, I have hair that goes almost to my waist, but it’s about to be cut by the end of the week. So it’s only going to be a little bit above my shoulders.

I am wearing a very, very bright smile. And my hazel eyes are kind of crinkled up the corners because my smiles are often big enough that my eyes do that.

TR:

Warm undertones, eyes that crinkle up on the sides,
she began exploring visual concepts through conversations with sighted friends who happened to be artist.
Learning the importance of detail.

Danielle:

What does my hair look like? What facial features are most noticeable? What do you see when you look at me first?

Does something I’m wearing bring out particular features.

I’ve tried to think of all the different pieces of information that sighted folks would get. And honestly, my image descriptions can be a paragraph long sometimes because I’m just trying to put all of the information that I would have possibly wanted to know about the picture. And if I want to know I’m sure somebody else might want to know, and if they don’t, they can just keep going.

TR:
Sharing these descriptions can be infectious.

Bojana:
So I make sure I have it in alt text and in the caption, so everybody can see the image description.

Sometimes I’ll see my friends start to right image descriptions.

Whoa, where’d you learn that?
I learned that from you.

At least people on my Instagram or my Facebook feed start to see examples of it and kind of reflect it back.

Shannon:

Some friends and colleagues, john Harmon and Molly Joyce did a dance and music performance and they had a director of audio description. It was Andy Slater, who’s a Blind artist and writer.

Putting someone who’s blind or low vision, in charge of that creative process makes a lot of sense in terms of setting the tone, and kind of making the plan and thinking about what the approach to it is going to be.

— Music ends – smakcs into…
— Audio from Radical Visibility Collective

TR:
Marginalized communities are producing progressive examples of audio description
weaved into performances. And even keeping it grown and sexy.

Shannon:
actually, I thought of a really good example. The performance by radical visibility collective. It’s put on by three people, it’s also related to queer and crip nightlife and, and the audio description is in music, and it is so fun. It really has that feeling of a dance party of the kind of ways that people are showing off on the dance floor. For me that was a kind of experience where I was like, Oh, right, okay, like this can be really fun, really sexy, very much in the same feeling of the performance in general.

TR:
Earlier in our conversation, Bojana mentioned an accessible Cabaret on a barge in Brooklyn.
I was intrigued and had to ask for more because parties and night life, that can be sexy!

— Audio from Radical Visibility Collective ends and smacks into…
— Music begins, a thumping club dance track…

Bojana:

I’m really glad you asked.

There was music, poetry being read, everything there was done with access. So everybody was wearing a mask.
There were non alcoholic beverages available. It was a very like relaxed environment.

It was just a way of being together in a space that would not just like, oh, it had a ramp or like a no barrier to entry. But there’s also the attitudes. So often you can go into a place that might be, quote unquote accessible as far as like the built environment, but you get there and you feel like, Oh, this person is acting a certain kind of way, because I’m disabled, and they’re not.

Shannon:

Our friend and colleague Kevin Gotkin has been doing a lot of research and planning around disability nightlife and also planning remote parties that happened over zoom, where there’s a DJ set, and there’s audio description available.

There’s sound description, so thinking about captioning, but also thinking about someone who’s describing the feel of the song that’s on.

TR:

So what are the implications of all this sexy access?

Danielle:

It kind of puts out a statement that our access matters. And it really kind of changed my perspective and thinking.

Now I’m kind of someone who is always going on and on about image descriptions and the art that can be involved in image descriptions.

I’m always asking blind people, why are you not describing your images at all, they will post images with no description.

It’s just a conversation that we have to continue having. And just recognizing that a lot of folks are where I was several years ago, in terms of audio description.

TR:

Danielle learned how she could benefit from accessing this visual information.

Danielle:

I started being able to kind of understand, like the facial expressions and kind of the silent things that were happening with the mood of the room

I just ended up finding that I had so much access to things. I didn’t realize that I could ask people about the colors of the decorations in the room, or how exactly somebody space looked, or how their face would pinch before they felt really ill. I didn’t know.

It kind of started setting me on equal footing with my sighted peers who had access to all these things for so long

TR:

Access to things like sexy advertisements that can let’s say arouse one’s interest.

Bojana:

As a person with low vision, who never has driven and never will,, I don’t think about how cars look, I don’t think about the design of cars.

I read this description of this one car, feline, like a panther about to strike. I was fascinated because the picture was right there. And they weren’t writing this description for access, they were writing this description to enhance the image or in order to draw people in.

— Sound of a Bugatti engine roaring like a feline…

I looked at the other descriptions of cars, and it wasn’t anywhere near as delicious.

I want to go to a car museum now. Like, let me touch your cars.

TR:

Imagine if online descriptions of clothes, shoes and other products were as sexy or captivating. Cha ching!

The need for access to sexual related content actually has implications that begin earlier in life.

TR in Conversation with Pratik:
What was your experience? If you care to talk about with sex education growing up? Was that something that you felt was accessible to you?

Pratik:
No. It wasn’t accessible.

I had a couple of good teachers in high school who were good enough to describe the content, but it still wasn’t enough.

And the book we were using for sex ed wasn’t brailled In fact, I think there are a bunch of copy pages. They played a couple of videos not accessible. You know, the typical banana video but I think the most difficult thing about that course was Male and female anatomy and what discussions that were around different anatomical parts.

I found that part to be missing in my education. It wasn’t until later in life when I started exploring that I figured things out. That’s a major problem in our current education system. blind students don’t have enough information.

Danielle:

I did not learn a lot in my sex education in school, I learned a lot from books. I got one when I was eight, and one when I was 10.
I was the one telling people what pelvic exams were when I was eight, because they were in a book that I read. It’s called, it’s perfectly normal and it was in Braille. I think the NBP,national Braille press, Brailed it.
Pratik:35:58
The male teacher was not comfortable having that conversation. I had a female teacher who did a health and wellness course, that was somewhat different than your normal health course with sex ed attached to it. She was a student teacher, young hip teacher, she was far more comfortable talking about sex. Not only generally to students, but she actually spent some time with me. Outside the course, with the itinerant teacher, working with me to talk about some sex ed issues.

And it only happened because I was persistent enough to ask questions. Not all students are comfortable enough to do that.

Danielle:

I didn’t get to learn a lot about 3d example of anatomy until I was out of my own house, even then, I only knew mine, until I started my phase of getting around and experiencing other bodies. And that’s when I learned a lot about what penises and vaginas look like.

I think it’s really healthy for people to have an idea of what different vaginas and penises look like, even as children because sighted kids get to see it.

I don’t think that we have to single out blind kids by giving them really super extended image descriptions or models that the sighted kids don’t get, I think we can actually give everybody access to those models and let everybody experience them.

And that sets the stage for really important access expectations for everything else later on, too, because kids are really good at learning that stuff. It’s the adults who are shitty at it.

Pratik:38:25

I don’t think we should be shy as a community using sex toys to demonstrate different things to blind students. There are some realistic models available.

TR in Conversation with Pratik: 38:57
Wow. If the male teacher was just nervous about having a conversation with you? (Laughing….)

Pratik:
(…Laughing) I can just imagine,.

Communities and parents have a role to play in this as well. And oftentimes, I think that’s where a lot of suppression comes in. Parents don’t see their children as having desires. Wanting sex. But I think the more we accept that disabled people are sexual beings, the better it is.

Danielle:
It’s called blind positive sex ed, the community group that I work in. They talk a lot about making realistic models.

Right now it’s more about genitalia. So different states of vaginas and penises, a flaccid penis, circumcised uncircumcised . Vaginally, we have some where it has been subjected to genital mutilation. All of these different things that we really have to think about.

That’s the beauty of models, just like the audio and image descriptions they can convey so many different points.

TR:

Points that go beyond the individual.

Danielle:
I work a lot in talking about consent, and consent in terms of sexuality and kink. All of these things I learned because I’ve had so many descriptions being thrown at me that I get to enjoy the art, but the person who described it does not belong to me and I have no ownership of them or their time.

I think conversations around sexuality and just sex and just all the raunchy things like everything, literally everything, talk about what a money shot is talk about what it looks like when somebody squirts talk about all these things because sighted people have access to that stuff, if they want it, blind folks don’t.

TR:

Of course, it’s more than access.
Danielle:

I think particularly in blind communities, access to this information is so new that there’s not a lot of examples of us conducting ourselves with respect in these ways. I might be the first rather sensual image description that a blind person has ever seen. Meanwhile, most sighted people I know, have seen 10s, hundreds 1000s of sensual pictures. And they’ve had a lot more practice having to try or not try to conduct themselves with some decorum whenever they see those pictures. So I think that’s all part of consent education, and what we talk about when we start opening up equal access to a lot of this information.

My intention is not to lambaste the blind community and be like, they’re all terrible for this and nobody else because like, we all know, sighted folks are just as bad with consent.

boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

Bojana:
People don’t understand boundaries, they think it’s out there and it’s there, right? Or their privilege to just comment on whatever they want to comment on.
People feel more anonymous online and they can do these things.

It’s hard to say where the boundary should be for people who are commenting.

If somebody wants to write a sexy and grown description, they should have that. Absolutely.
I think like anything with the internet you kind of curate it.

Try something out you see if that works and maybe you get a response you don’t want you kind of try to peel it back and edit yourself.

I’m thinking about how I describe myself
if there’s a picture of me and maybe it has some cleavage I’m probably won’t for that very reason. I don’t want to signal something.
I don’t know

TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon: 54:39
So you would leave it out of the description? You’re censoring blind people. (Laughing…)

Bojana:
Oh, no. Strike that Thomas!

I feel like I’m reinforcing the sexiness of it. Just by writing it by noting it by marking it.
Shannon:
This gets to such an important topic in image description, there is always this prioritization and filtering, that happens, because you’re never gonna describe every single thing.
So you’re choosing certain things. There can be a mismatch, where it’s the thing that’s most important to me about sharing the photo, there may be something that really stands out to someone else about it, but I might gloss over that.

This also comes up against some issues around consent and description.

You’re describing an image of yourself, you get to make a choice about what parts of your body and how you want to name them and what you feel comfortable doing and what you feel you don’t. Certainly if you’re describing someone else, thinking about consent and that situation. If you know them, checking in with them about how they want to be described, or researching online about language they used to describe themselves.

I think especially for marginalized people, there is a potential for harm there.
Going back to boundaries or crossing a boundary and that of course, is this like Delicate Balance with like, not withholding information or like hiding something or not naming it because of a describers discomfort or unease. But also, being aware that there can be like power imbalances like talking about someone’s cleavage may make them feel vulnerable in a way that they shouldn’t have to be. Right.

TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon: 1:00:27
Bojana when you said strike that Thomas we use, were you serious?

Bojana:
No. I’m just joking, joking around.

TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon:

I thought so. But I just want to make sure.

Bojana:
thanks for checking.
TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon:
Yeah, absolutely. Get your consent. Cool.
(“consent” echoes for emphasis and transition)

TR:
sex education, understanding how to fit in society,
I’m telling you, Alt text, , Audio Description is more than entertainment. That access goes deep.

Danielle:
I never , in my image descriptions describe myself as an indigenous white woman. I don’t know what that means.
Often my skin tone is not the same shade year round. At its widest point, it is an olive tone. At its darkest. It’s many, many, many shades darker.

Sometimes I’ll notice when my skin gets darker, how I’m treated. Sometimes it’s just like, who talks to me when I’m in public. White women in general really will approach me a lot. I noticed that they start avoiding me the darker my skin gets. When I’ve gone to other places like Florida I will have folks start speaking Spanish to me thinking I am Latina.

TR:

Body and facial features are tied to identity. The implications aren’t just how we’re viewed in society.

Danielle:
As a disabled person, my body was always public property for people to make remarks on. In the summer, it got so much worse, and people would make so many jokes about my skin, and what I looked like, and my body shape and everything. And I thought, for the longest time I thought it was because I was showing more skin, and that I was just genuinely ugly. I did not realize that my skin was getting darker and darker and darker, the longer I spent outside.

Because I was on my mom’s side, primarily white, my father’s side wasn’t really in the picture all that much. I am by far the darkest in my family. There were just a lot of jokes made about that, even in passing, whether it was by my family members, or just by people around me. They would always make remarks about how dark I was.

It’s a whole big thing that I’m still working through, honestly, in terms of my racial identity.

Shannon:
I went to this audio description workshop that was put on by a UK organization called Whiplash. And they were talking a little bit about how self description can fall a little bit heavier on marginalized people, marginalized in various ways.

I felt that a little bit around gender identity, I’ve had like a shifting understanding of my gender and it’s hard to put that into words or to kind of like process that or update that in real time. It also has been really helpful to think about what my gender presentation is versus how my gender feels.

— Music Begins, A sexy , smooth melodic Hip Hop track
TR:

Alt Text as poetry offers some great resources for those interested in stepping up their description game, including workshops.
Shannon:

We basically get together with small groups of people, talk to them about what alt text is and talk about this idea of Alt Text as Poetry and then practice together.

And then we’ve also created a workbook, a self guided version of the workshop. And we also now have a blog as part of the project called alt text study club, where we gather interesting examples of alt text, again, in that spirit of learning from other people and thinking about different approaches or ways of writing.

Bojana:

One of the things in the workshops that I love, is just when people have the chance to share.
Maybe we’re talking all about the same image. And people have so many different perspectives.
Just giving people a chance to share and learn from each other, I think is just one of the more beneficial parts of the workshop.

People sometimes get so caught up in writing text correctly and perfectly, instead of just doing the best they can and having some fun with it and adding a creative flair. I think that’s something that we also talk about and encourage.

TR:

So whether we’re talking about describing love scenes in film, subjective images that we deem sexy like
those featuring the curves of a woman’s body to those of a stylish sports car, having fun and being creative is a great place to start. Who knows where it will take you.

Bojana:
Thomas, if all of a sudden, all my decisions get a lot sexier. She’s talking about cleavage and… (Laughing)

TR in Conversation with Bojana/Shannon: 57:00
Just point them to this episode. (Laughing…)

Bojana:

That’s the Grown & Sexy episode.

TR:

Big shout out to my grown and sexy guests;
Alt Text as Poetry, that’s the dynamic duo of :
Bojana, who you can find on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram

Bojana:
at bojana Coklyat. That’s B as in boy, O J A N AC O K L Y A T as in Tom.

TR:
Shannon!
Shannon:
at Shan S H A N and then my last name, Finnegan F I N E G A N. So that’s for both Instagram and Twitter.

TR:

Danielle

Danielle:
I’m Danielle Montour on Facebook. I think i’s still Can’tC4Shit on Instagram
Can’t, letter C, number 4, shit…

TR:
You’re funny for that one Danielle!

And Pratik Patel is on Twitter @PPatel

Pratik:
Spelling it out… PPatel

TR:
I need you all to understand, you are each official members of the Reid My Mind Radio family!
— Air horn

Subscribe wherever you get podcasts and join the family.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
I’ll let you in on a family thing…
That’s R to the E I D…
— Sample “D! And that’s me in the place to be!” Slick Rick

TR:
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Outro
Peace!

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