Reid My Mind

TR:
Freeze, flight or fight.

Psychologically, we’re all wired differently. I’m pretty sure our DNA and perhaps our experiences play a part in how we respond to not just traumatic situations but life in general. It’s hard for me to understand freezing. I can understand pausing momentarily in order to assess the situation before responding. Like…

Before I move on to the other two categories of responses, I’m Thomas Reid, this is Reid My mind Radio.

— Reid My Mind Radio Theme Music

TR:
In the context of all the social and political attacks on our lives, freezing, looks like deciding not to engage at all. You hear things like;
“I don’t do politics.”
“I stay away from the news, it’s just so depressing.”
“None of that effects my life, I just mind my business.”

I can understand flight. It makes absolute sense for different people based on their unique situation.

If we turn back the clock to November 2024, when the election was called for Diaper Don.

Lolly:
Well, I think the week before I had some hope that it was going to go differently than it did, but I could see early on election eve that it wasn’t. I would say that my reaction was one of fear.
I think a foreboding of things to come that a lot of us knew might happen, and we have seen a lot of those things happen and more.

I recall texting my niece who lives in Toronto early morning hours, and I think both of us were in tears.

TR in conversation with Lolly:
Were you texting like, “Hey, you got a bed, or was it just commiserating?

(Laughs)

Lolly:
That was part of our conversation. Yes. So now what?

TR:
Say hello to Lolly!

Lolly:
My name is Lali Lijewski. I’m from Minneapolis, Minnesota. I use she/her pronouns.
I’m a 70-ish woman with brown and some silver hair, brown eyes. I’ve been legally blind, all my life. Lost my vision throughout my life progressively.

I also have acquired hearing loss as I’ve gotten older, and so use hearing aids in both ears. And then just recently have a diagnosis that’s more of a physical one, which you know the older you get, the more you get.

TR:
We all need to consider our safety. But there are definitely some who are more at risk and take that into consideration when participating in any sort of advocacy or activism.

Lolly:
I think that for me, advocacy just is such a strong strain in my personal identity that, of course, there was thoughts about what does this mean for me personally, what does it mean for people with disabilities in the United States? And knowing that there were likely to be some serious and severe cuts to services for people with disabilities across the country,
so that the things that are your supports daily aren’t there anymore. For people, for example, with physical disabilities, having personal care attendants come into their homes to be able to get them out of bed or to prepare food and just daily cares, those things are dependent on federal programs and state programs and so how those things would be affected was obviously on my mind.

TR:
We all have to consider not only our physical safety but our financial security as well.

Lolly:
By that time, I was already retired. I had worked for the state of Minnesota for over 18 years, and was starting down the road of learning to do audio description, so I had plans for my retirement, which I also knew might change because of the election, with Social Security potentially being affected, with Medicare potentially being affected as a senior, all of those things were on the table.

TR:
Soon after the election, what many of us who were paying attention anticipated, began.

No one had a crystal ball, the Heritage foundation Afterall published their plan – Project 2025.

— News coverage about aspects of Project 2025 that have been implemented.

Lolly:
I think a lot of us are still coming out of the trauma, and it’s not by any means over. Across the country are 2000 people being taken a day.

This surge here actually started with Homeland Security and ICE and Border Patrol here in December, but the actual influx of the 3,000 agents, and then they added more after that, didn’t really happen until early January. They focused on Minneapolis and St. Paul first, but then they also moved beyond the cities to areas in the state.

We saw people who were being taken literally off the streets. I mean, they would stop cars for no apparent reason other than the color of the individual skin, and they would just grab people, take them out of their cars. Cars got left in the middle of the streets.

TR:
The ICE surge put a real strain on Minneapolis city services. But neighbors moved into action.

Lolly told me about one man for example, who decided to help with all the abandoned cars.

Lolly:
He had a lot that he used, and he would put them in this place so that if people were released, they would know where their vehicle was.

Hyper local organizing started to happen here, and. Because we had networks that had been built up five years before during the George Floyd uprising, we had in place a lot of things that other cities didn’t have.

TR:
We’re talking about people tracking license plates of vehicles used by ICE. Folks capturing the harassment, intimidation and all sorts of incidents on video. Not just for social media. No.
We’re talking about video that can be used as evidence to bring about justice. Make a statement for the future.

“We’re not gonna take this!”

Lolly:
It was a very well run kind of network of folks who came together in a very short period of time to create a response to something that I don’t think any of us had ever seen before nor experienced before.

TR:
Freeze, flight… This is about fighting back, but perhaps not in the way you’re most familiar with.

Lolly:
It was really pretty amazing. It was all done by neighbors, and that’s what I mean by hyper local. We think of a lot of organizing as being statewide or regional or national, and that’s all important. But this became incredibly important so that people could actually respond nearly immediately to the situation at hand. That went on for a very long time. And then, of course, the second killing happened two weeks later.

TR:
I’m sure many of you remember the first ICE killing in Minneapolis; Renee Goode.

Lolly:
That morning I saw the coverage of Alex Preddy being killed.

I had joined a group called Singing Resistance, which grew out of the surge here, but has roots in singing and music, bringing music to situations like this, and how it can be a powerful mobilizer, but also it can be a powerful agent for change.

It was a very difficult day for everyone, so they took us through some breathing exercises, but then also just some songs that are civil rights kinds of songs, human rights kinds of songs, and we were together for probably 90 minutes to two hours that day, and it was, I think, the most therapeutic thing I could have done on that day.

TR:
There’s a real difference between experiencing something alone and having a chance to process it with a group of people.

Lolly:
The songs that they chose are not songs that a lot of us knew. So they did a lot of teaching of the music.

they do this call and response, and teach the song, and then have people sing it.

To have people learn music together and then end up in harmony at the end was just a very powerful experience.

TR:
It’s a beautiful metaphor of what is possible when people with good intentions come together.

Lolly’s introduction to the organization came from a Facebook post.

Lolly:
Some folks who belonged to the Quaker meeting I attend had been a part of the first singing resistance action. They were out in the neighborhoods that had been targeted, and they had some songs that they had chosen.

People in their houses were peeking out of their curtained windows, to see the singers outside. They got a lot of positive responses from folks in their houses who were in those neighborhoods that had been targeted, and I thought this is something I really want to be a part of. It’s something that fits for me. I love music. I love coming together in community in music.
The roots of this goes way back. there’s a lot of sort of spirituality to it, They’re not necessarily religious per se. This is really about being a human and helping other humans.

TR:
Enslaved Africans shared songs that weren’t just about grief or hope for a better day.
Many of them were coded messages to one another with instructions for escape.

Singing together during the Civil Rights Movement was also a way to
both strengthen bonds and keep people focused under severe pressure.

TR in conversation with Lolly:
I know that at some point in my life, my response to that would probably be like, whatever! It just doesn’t seem like it’s being all that helpful. But when you were describing it, and when you were talking about it, I was actually getting choked up, because I can see the value of that.
don’t tell anybody I said I was getting choked up. It’s gonna mess up my reputation.

TR:
You can’t broadcast everything to the world, right?
It makes sense to keep the organizing as secure as possible while making use of the technology available today.
This can however, make it hard for disabled people to learn about and participate in the organizing.

Lolly:
Yes. So the best way to learn about them was to join Signal and to get connected to some of the groups.

They form different groups depending on what you wanted to do, what roles you wanted to play. There was everything from people who were observers, rapid response folks. They would make sure that people in a given neighborhood knew that something was happening in their neighborhood.

TR:
That’s the Signal app you can download and join from your smart phone.

Lolly:
I had the challenge of trying to figure it out.
I knew a friend who was on it, and she helped me get on and create my own account, and we tested it and all of that, and then I kind of went from there.

And once the groups were being formed, you could contact them and ask for a link to be sent to you, and they would send you the link, and then you could join the group. But you kind of had to know somebody in the group, and that was challenging also because you had to start making those connections, which meant you had to do some outreach because there were security and trust issues too.

It was challenging because it’s created to be a secure app, and there’s often a clash between security and accessibility.)

TR:
We’re familiar with;
trying to navigate inaccessible or unusable apps, documents and websites.
encountering in accessible spaces
dealing with unresponsive developers, organizers and other people who can actually help make a difference

I was asked a question at one time by one of the facilitators, they asked what’s been successful what’s been good and what’s been hard and I said right straight out accessibility has been almost impossible.
I think she reacted a little defensively initially, but when her part was over. She came down from the front and she came and sat next to me and she said, “What can we do to make this different? And from then on, I had people who stepped forward in several different roles, and who would ask for input, and who tried their best to make things work, and sometimes succeeded, sometimes didn’t. But there were efforts put forth to do that, because she carried the message forward for me.

— Pulsating Emergency Horn, Incoming, Incoming! Sobering Reality Alert!

TR:
not everyone will be onboard working with disabled folks.
Like when Lolly volunteered to help a woman looking for assistance preparing flyers.

Lolly:
And she said, well, but you have to be able to cut these things apart. And I said, well, I have helpers, and they’re probably interested in this kind of thing. I can gather folks, we can do it together.

She just wasn’t open to it. She couldn’t hear that there were possible ways for me to be able to do this, and she just said,

— Combined with a monstrous voice
“No, I’m sorry. Thank you for being interested. So the door closed.
— Large metal door slamming shut.

TR:
That’s the thing about the isms. Specifically here, ableism.
Someone denies another person from participating. Meanwhile, they’re also depriving themselves from actually getting something done or reaching a goal.

It reminds me of the millions of disenfranchised people, poor people who support this administration.

“I love the poorly educated.”, President Chump!

Lolly:
I will say that was a hard thing, it wasn’t the biggest thing by any means, but it was one of those pivot points where you kind of have to make a decision about what you’re going to do and how you can do it and that sort of thing.

TR:
Even though we become familiar with these experiences, they are still difficult and in my opinion should never be thought of as standard or acceptable.

TR in conversation with Lolly:
So you had to be really intentional, not only about finding these outlets, but then of course making it accessible for you.

Lolly:
Yes, absolutely.

TR:
Lolly was resilient in her pursuit of getting involved. Even outside of the Singing Resistance, she found opportunities that fit her.

Lolly:
There were a lot of people, who were afraid to go out, and also afraid to drive their own vehicles because they were concerned that their license plates had been tracked.

So we had people who were trying to find rides. In this situation, it was a couple, both had jobs in different places, and they were working on their status. But things had not come through yet, and so they were very concerned. And so I was part of a group that was trying to find rides, basically exchanging text messages, trying to find rides for folks who were in need of transportation. And eventually, that did come together. It was a network, a very small network of folks who came together, that were able to provide rides.
Someone would pick them up in the morning, take them to work and someone would pick them up at night and take them home.

There were several people who volunteered to do this so it didn’t fall on one person.

TR:
Neighbors helping neighbors.
The result?
People were able to stay employed in order to feed and shelter themselves and their families.

Lolly shares some more examples of ways people can contribute to the effort.

Lolly:
There was so much. There were different ways that food was provided, you could deliver groceries to folks. if you were a person with a disability but had a car, you could still do something like that. I looked into it, and it would have been possible where they were packing boxes of food for people, and so that someone would take those and deliver them. But you didn’t have to be part of the actual delivery. You could just put the stuff in the boxes.

TR in conversation with Lolly:
(Sarcastically) But Lolly, you’re blind. You can’t put stuff in boxes.

Lolly:
Exactly! (Laughs)

TR:
Communication today requires a new set of skills. Therefore, the same is true for getting activated.

Lolly:
I’d done organizing where of course, we set up back in my day phone trees or fax trees or you know email lists or that kind of thing. This was different.
It had its ups and downs in terms of accessibility. It was a challenge, definitely.

It wasn’t insurmountable that there were things that weren’t possible, and it was really only because I was able to connect with some of the folks through some of the networks I got in touch with that I was able to do what I was able to do.

TR:
Some advice from Lolly on getting connected.

Lolly:
I think with those experiences now, I have a different outlook about how to make connections than I did as an advocate previously. I think this hyperlocal emphasis is really more important than we can ever emphasize.

Start to get to know the people in your building, in your block. Talk to people in your neighborhood, because that’s where you’re going to make connections.

TR in conversation with Lolly:
Let’s say you are new to a neighborhood. You don’t know many people. You’re a disabled person, and let’s say you’re not a natural extrovert.

Lolly:
You know that’s tough. I think you almost have to put yourself out and that’s always a risk because you don’t know what you’re going to get back and you don’t know how someone’s going to
receive your inquiry and your efforts to help.

even just a hello, starts the conversation.

TR:
Lolly recommends restaurants and coffee shops where customers and especially employees tend to be a bit more social and in the know about the community.

TR in conversation with Lolly:
So you’ve done it. It’s a risk.
you made a contribution in your way. Do you think it was worth the risk?

Lolly:
Yes, I do. I think that people who are either newly blind or new to vision loss don’t necessarily maybe have the confidence, and they might have had the skills before, but maybe that confidence has been dampened a bit.

I think I go into this with the attitude that I know every time I do this, I am going to probably have some bad experiences, probably have some feelings that get hurt, probably not really like a lot of what happens, but if I can keep my eyes on the prize and remember why I’m doing it, and what is important to me, which is that part of being in community and trying to make a difference. Then I can find ways to mitigate those things that don’t happen that I wish would have happened, and to find ways to try and make things happen.

TR:
Some additional advice from Lolly. First, tap into your own support system.

Lolly:
Sometimes it’s just expressing to somebody else, it was really a screwed up day. Nothing went well. I tried these things; they didn’t work. I don’t know where to go next. And someone might have an answer, and they might not. But if you keep putting it out there, somebody might come forward with something that works for you.

You can’t do it alone, is what I found. You really do have to share some of that sort of disappointment and frustration with other people because that’s what helps keep you going.

I think the best advice is to stay open, to think about what skills and abilities do you have? And every one of us has things they can offer. What can you share? Where is it best to try and plug in. And even if you’re having trouble, finding places that you can continue to try.

TR:
That’s a key element right there. Persistence.

Lolly:
It’s been my experience, that disability often becomes the last on the laundry list, so to speak, or gets forgotten altogether.

And when I was struggling with some of this, what I kept hearing was openness to immigrants, openness to people from the LGBTQ community, but I didn’t hear disability mentioned much until I had the conversation with the person who really kind of helped turn things around, and then I found many people who were willing to do that, but I had to be willing to be honest about it and say this isn’t working for me, and this is why, and this is what I need.

If you’re not at the table, your needs will likely not be met or heard.

TR in conversation with Lolly:
Yeah, that sounds like some great advice. In the end, what did you gain from participating? How did it make you feel?

Lolly:
Much more a part of the community of people who were going through these experiences, and while so many people had different roles, the one thing that all of us shared was we were in a situation we did not ask for, and we were forced into having to create these options and these avenues for connection, and some just amazing things came out of that, and it shows how when you think you know the worst is happening. Sometimes it is, but also at the same time, because two things can be true at the same time, at least two things, then there also are good things that are happening in other places or in places where you’ve been trying to make a difference.

You can make a difference.

TR:
For whatever reason, making a difference, can feel really important to many of us. If we’re not working towards that goal, then we’re going to feel unfulfilled.

It’s not even about the level of difference being made. Most often you won’t know what that actually is. But that’s not the point. It’s about the effort we put out. The energy we share with the world. Lolly said it earlier;

Lolly:
This is really about being a human and helping other humans.

TR:
I hope producing this series of episodes is one way for me to make my small contribution to the collective energy.

Big, big, big shout out to Lolly Lijewski.

I’ve gotten to know Lolly a bit over the past year or so and one thing I can say, her ability to be persistent is real.
It’s admirable and quite honestly can serve as a real guide for us all. It has for me.

That’s why, Lolly, you are an official member of the Reid My Mind Radio family!

We will continue exploring the different ways we can fight back.
So, stay tapped in by following or subscribing to Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com

The good thing about this podcasts is we’re not covert, we’re not underground., there’s no secret signal or code to gain access.
You just have to spell it right…
That’s R to the E I D!

Like my last name!

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

AD: A True Crime Story

TR:
What’s up Family? It’s your brother, Thomas… Thomas Reid!
Host and producer of this here podcast. Sheesh!
If you’ve been here for a while, you know sometimes something about audio description gets on my last nerve and I choose to speak on it. Well, that hasn’t necessarily changed.
There’s a lot to be annoyed at.
Sub par AD is running wild out here.
Culturally competent audio description is still extremely lacking.
Streaming networks like Apple choose to use like 3 or four narrators for everything.
Ok, admittingly, I don’t watch that much on Apple, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a narrator of color on any content.
And to all you Apple stans, please don’t send me one example in their defense.
AD providers still haven’t committed to working with Blind Narrators and QC specialists in a sustainable way.
If any network were going to show support to Blind narrators and QC Specialists, I would have put my money on Apple. This is why I don’t gamble y’all!
Last year, I decided that I’m not going to rant. Well I’m going to try not to rant. That doesn’t mean I’m going to be quiet. I want to find ways to say something but be creative.
So today, I present to you, my take on the true crime genre…
Take it away bro!
Narrator:
The following is a dramatization.
The purpose of this is not to blame, implicate or judge individuals. It is however an artistic expression of the frustration with the current state and foreseeable future of audio description.
While this story is fiction, it does include real people from real publicly held events.
In most cases their names have been withheld, but not the companies they represent.
— Reid My Mind Radio theme Music
— Suspenseful cinematic music
Lies, deceit, murder?
This is the case of AD, A True Crime Story!
— Audio: President Obama signing the CVAA
President Obama:
The Twenty First Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act will make it easier for people who are Deaf, blind or live with a visual impairment to do what many of us take for granted from navigating a TV or DVD menu, to sending an email on a smart phone.
… I’ll sign it now… (Applause)
— An uplifting pop tune.
AD:
I can’t tell you how excited I was when President Obama signed this legislation.
Even watching this now, gives me chills!
Narrator in conversation with AD:
Why was this so special to you?
Oh my goodness!
This was the chance I was waiting for since starting my career!
It might sound corny, but I always knew, this was my calling.
I was certain, this, was the opportunity I’d been waiting for.
Would you mind introducing yourself?
Sure, all my friends call me AD. My pronouns are They Them.
In two thousand ten, AD was only in their 20’s. Relatively early in their career, and they were bouncing back from some setbacks in the early two thousands.
My career really began in theater.
Then, in the 90’s, I got a chance to work with PBS.
I have to say, It really hurts me today as this administration is so set on destroying PBS and NPR.
I not only feel a kinship with these vital organizations because I worked with PBS, but I know what it feels like to have a target on your back.
I’ve been in that position for the past few years.
Not by this administration though. Well, at least, not yet!
AD continued at PBS and while they enjoyed that work, like others, they had dreams of reaching more people.
In two thousand ten, with the signing of the Twenty First Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act, or CVAA, AD’s future appeared to be bright. Advocates worked tirelessly to help pass legislation that would help AD and others not only secure the right to work, but broaden their career opportunities.
No longer would they be confined to limited hours on children’s television, they were going prime time!
I went from begging film makers to include me, to Hollywood specifically calling me! They were now seeing me, as a valuable asset able to enhance their stories!
And then, the streaming services came online. Oh my gosh! Just when I thought life couldn’t get any better.
This was around 2015.
Streaming companies were invested in AD and their talent.
Netflix Representative:
I think we first heard the calls for audio description
around 2014 when we were just launching into our own original content.
We spent most of 2014 doing a lot of the sort of back end work trying to prep ourselves to be able to provide audio description consistently. A lot of different research and creating different technical specifications to make sure that audio description would play back on all the many different devices through which people access Netflix.
We also created audio description style guides. We wanted to make sure that when we were ordering audio description that there was a consistent experience across that was high quality, that used good voice talent, good script writing, and that also met, like I said, the technical specifications so that we could ingest those files and then make sure that they could play back on all the different devices.
We also set up a lot of partnerships with different companies that create audio description to make sure we had a really healthy supply chain. Uh, knowing that we were launching full force into a huge volume of content, we knew that as we made a commitment to create audio description on all of our original content, that that was not going to be a trivial amount. We set up that supply chain and made sure we had good script authors and talent and recording studios, and also made sure that we had a really healthy pool of people who could QC audio description to make sure that we had had a set of ears on the files before they went live, to get ahead of any issues that might come out. So we worked on that for most of 2014 and then in 2015 we launched Daredevil without audio description. So that was definitely a miss, and we heard it from the community loud. Luckily, we had already done all that legwork, like I said, in 2014 so we recovered quickly and put that up, as well as about 100 other titles by the end of the summer of 2015 and from there, we dug in hard on that investment, and I’m happy to say that today, we have over 13,000 hours of audio described content on Netflix.
We’ve committed to creating audio description on all of our original content, and we also do our very best to make sure that we get the licensed content, we’ve actually added the need for audio description to our contractual obligations with our content partners.
It was so promising!
Even better, listening, reading and watching the feedback from the community through podcasts, blogs and YouTube was so gratifying.
You can’t under estimate the value AD brought to the community.
Fan 1:
AD changed my life.
Because I now had access, I find myself in conversations with more people because I can talk about the latest film or streaming series. I’m bonding with more people and I never realized this was possible.
Fan 2:
Watching AD, helped give me the courage to believe I could do more. I wanted to follow in their footsteps and today I’m working in a field that I never believed was possible.
Fan 3:
Today, I don’t watch anything unless it has AD.
With it’s new found popularity and all the opportunity that came from the CVAA, AD moved from one gig to the next.
Live television events like the Olympics and even award shows wanted AD.
More streaming services were coming online and sought out AD.
I was working constantly.
I was even invited on a cruise [laughs] only to find out it was a working trip.
In between projects, I had time to self reflect.
I listened to the community. That was eye opening.
No pun intended.
Ok, huh, AD has a sense of humor.
When I finally understood that my work wasn’t serving everyone equitably, I knew I needed to do a better job.
I realized, I had to better represent all cultures.
I even tapped into my ability to speak multiple languages and started bringing that to my work.
I was excited about not only my future, but what it could mean for my supporters.
Wow! At a time when I didn’t think the work could get better, it became even more of a passion!
— suspenseful music…
So where did things go wrong? What exactly happened to AD?
More after this message.
POD Access trailer
— a bouncy bass drum opens to bright synth trumpets announcing a fun, celebratory up-tempo Hip Hop beat
THOMAS:
If you’re currently thinking about launching a podcast, but have no idea how to start?
CHERYL: The types of podcasts, finances.
THOMAS: Recording, editing, marketing.
CHERYL: Social media, branding.
THOMAS: Theme music, a logo.
CHERYL: Maybe you’ve started one but feel as though you need a bit of coaching to really get it going? Where should we begin?
THOMAS: PodAccess.net.
CHERYL: In this series of 11 episodes, we’ll cover the basics of things to consider when starting a podcast.
THOMAS: Unlike most of the information you’ll find out there on the subject, we recognize the importance of accessibility.
CHERYL: Accessible content creation! The three ways you can potentially consume podcasts.
THOMAS: Listening, reading, watching.
CHERYL: We’ll share resources and practical tips from other Deaf and disabled podcasters in all stages of production. Tell a friend and an enemy to follow or subscribe to POD Access wherever you get your podcasts and on Instagram @PodAccess.
CHERYL: Connecting d/Deaf and disabled podcasters to audiences and each other!
— music fades out
Ten years after the CVAA, AD, was having even more of an impact on it’s supporters.
— Covid 19 Pandemic Announcement of Lock down.
In two thousand twenty the Covid 19 pandemic hit and forced corporations around the world to re-examine what work will look like in the near future.
In fact, for many it forced them to consider what workers look like.
Fortunately, some corporations had open minded people in charge and saw talent in the Blind community. Rather than just seeing fans of AD, or consumers,
— An uplifting synth opens to a pop beat.
they saw people who can help contribute and work with AD.
Wait, what?
You’re going to tell me I get to work directly with those who have been supporting me for years?
They say if you love your work, you’ll never work a day in your life.
— Music ends.
Well, I went on a permanent vacation when I got the chance to work with more of my supporters. It made me better!
— Dramatic bass heavy suspenseful drone.
And then things fell apart.
— Downton Abby Scene with TTS
Online Streaming companies turned to Artificial Intelligence (AI) and text To Speech (TTS).
For more on exactly why, we turn to a representative of Amazon
who further explained the company’s position during a panel discussion held in two thousand twenty two at the ACB convention.
Amazon guy:
We looked at the velocity of of how fast audio descriptions were being created. We looked at the very large back catalog of content. And we thought, you know, if we were going to really achieve the vision of what our audio description program is within Prime Video, that every single title is described, and, you know, audio descriptions are generally as available as closed captions are, then we would need to, you know, disrupt how audio descriptions are created. And so we’ve been working on text to speech audio descriptions for about a year and a half to date.
We have over 4000 text to speech tracks live on the service.
We have one person who kind of does everything the writing and the descriptions and the time coding, and then directs the text to speech engine. But we have every single track before it’s published on the service also goes through a human quality control review. So we are making sure that there is a second person involved in the process that reviews and detects those things that you know the writer may miss.
The more iterations you do on anything, the better quality product there will be.
Did anyone consider that yes, quality gets better over time, but in what other field do they release a sub par product to the consumer?
Who does that?
We spoke with AD supporters who shared their frustration.
Consumer 1:
I feel forced to make a decision every time I open a streaming service and launch a series or movie only to hear what I know is TTS.
I know they say they’re working to improve the quality of these voices, but it feels like they’re working harder to try and trick me.
Some of these companies using TTS narrators are crediting and naming the narrator.
Even if that TTS voice is based on a human, that doesn’t feel genuine to me. It feels like you’re just playing in my face.
Using AI in the production process goes beyond TTS.
The mixing is automated as well. And so it’s a separate process that is fully automated. You write the script and you get live feedback on the audio as you’re writing it, but then eventually, when it goes into mixing, that is automated as well.
We definitely realize there as well that is not as good as a human going through and mixing the track, but we think over time, we can build improvements into the track to get it as close or as to human quality mixing in the future.
The benefit of keeping everything automated, and that’s one of the reasons why we’re going fast, and we feel a little bit more comfortable about going quickly, is all of our tracks are never finished. I think that’s an important thing that we can do. We can very easily fix the script, and then, you know, automatically re voice and remix the track. If, if the improvements in text to speech come, we can, you know, use new text to speech engines to, you know, improve, improve the quality of the voicing. And as we’re, you know, making improvements in the automated mixing quality process as well. It’s very easy to for me to take all 4000 of those tracks and rerun them through the new, enhanced improvement in the mixing technology to improve the mix as well.
What?
So a consumer who watches a film that has poor quality description or doesn’t like the TTS voice, should just come back in a year or two to try again?
Who consumes content in that way? How could they say this is a working solution with a serious face?
As we hear from representatives from other streaming companies, it’s obvious, AI and TTS was always in play and part of the plan.
Peacock:
Certainly we are committed to innovation and would look to in the future, find ways of making audio description as efficient. Right and widely available as possible. And you know, text to speech could be one solution that that’s pursued.
I think you know there are ways that industry has to look to be able to deliver more content faster. And certainly, you know, technology solutions like text to speech may help.
Paramount:
Right now we don’t, and you know, we don’t have any immediate plans to do so, but I would say that, you know, my answer to that is, is similar to what Tom said, which is that
it is something that we’re looking at, and in part because, not as so much as a replacement for the live voice version of description, but as a way to possibly expand the amount of description that we have available on something like paramount.
The quality is improving there. It’s,
it’s certainly quicker than doing the traditional way. And it’s less expensive.
so I think it is something that we’re just looking at down the road as something that you know potentially could offer more content with description available.
Hulu:
In regard to Hulu originals, we currently only accept audio description that are read by human voice actors. So we don’t take auto generated or speech to text at this time, and we do try to make sure that we have consistency in our voice talent across episodes and seasons of a series
That was representatives from Peacock, Paramount and Hulu respectively.
Next, hear from HBO Max, Apple and Disney.
HBO Max:
We actually strive to really have our content voice acted. First and foremost, we’re a company. We’re an entertainment company. And you know, our value is really to create great entertainment. So it makes sense.
Apple:
We’re focusing on, you know, live human being, audio description. It’s kind of where we are at the moment. You know, I think, as some people have said, I think no one really knows where the future is going to go, but it’s not where we are currently putting our focus. We like the way things are at the moment.
Disney:
It is definitely something lucrative to look at. However. We have not ventured out that way just yet.

Consumer 2:
All of the effort these companies put into TTS, it’s like their trying to convince me that I want something I don’t want.
Today, it’s hard to find any platform that doesn’t employ TTS.
I think that’s a business decision that each studio needs to make.
We don’t want the trade off to be between text to speech and human that’s not the trade off we’re trying to address that. Really the trade off we’re trying to address is between no audio descriptions and text to speech.
— In order and panned from left to right:
A man confusedly says “Huh”, followed by a woman and dog with similar responses.
Consumer 3:
Why do, they, get to decide my options?
As a Blind consumer, I’m left with two choices, watch, or not.
Not much of a choice in my book!
The lack of choices can make some feel helpless. Not exactly what the CVAA was striving for.
Equal access, equal opportunity and equal respect for every American.
Equal access, equal opportunity, the freedom to make of our lives what we will; living up to these principles is an obligation we have as Americans.
What hurt me the most was, I expected someone to say something in my defense.
It was, after all, an organization of the Blind. I expected more pushback.
Not everyone was silent.
The community WAS speaking out against TTS and AI early on.
Online conversations like Blind Centered Chats, that often featured people from the community were vocal.
Clip from BCAD Chats 001
We didn’t talk about the fact that, well, how do we get the industry to really center blind people and blind and low vision people? Because right now I’m not sure if that is the case when it comes to audio description. I don’t always feel as though we are at the center of this. And there’s many reasons that I feel like that. Number one, I think this conversation about quantity and quality really does come down to who is being centered. Because when we talk about the quantity and really going for that, I think quantity, that whole, that kinda relates back to the whole compliance, let’s just get it done because the government is telling us we need to get it done. And that, to me-
NEFERTITI: Mmhmm. Checking that box.
THOMAS: Yeah. That, to me, brings about the Amazons, the AI, and all of that.
SCOTT N: [growls]
THOMAS: That’s what that’s about. And I think we all, the majority of us probably agree that that’s not really quality, you know, and we’re not centered in that conversation. That wasn’t about us. That wasn’t about bringing a good product to the people. That was more about, again, checking that box, like Nef said, and just making sure our numbers, and we do it efficiently, right? We do it on the cheap. That’s what that’s about. So, we’re not centered.
NEFERTITI: Do it on the cheap, do it at scale.
Other podcasts and content creators were vocal, perhaps not as loud as they could have been, but those in power either didn’t hear or care to hear the feedback.
This clip from an episode of Reid My Mind Radio’s Flipping the Script on Audio Description, reminds us that even audio description providers were sounding the alarm.
Clip from FTSAD: No One Will Save Us Part 2
When I invited Eric and Rhys to join me on the podcast,
I asked them each to bring three to five issues that most threaten the future of AD and some thoughts as to what we can do about them.
Eric:
I mean, there’s a few things that stand out.
Obviously, TTS synthetic speech, however you want to phrase it, I think that’s a problem.
It impacts our voiceover folks. But it also affects every area downstream for audio description.
A lot of companies that have no business being in this space are in this space. And they’re in it in major ways.
Rhys:
And it goes beyond just the sound of the voice, right?
Great narration track is often done by somebody who’s connecting to the material. Well, you know, who doesn’t connect to material? TTS doesn’t connect to the material, there’s no lived experience of being LGBTQ for a TTS voice. Whereas you get the human narrator, skilled, who’s doing content of that type, in the connection that they come through, it’s not performative, but it’s subtle, but it’s there, and it’s present. If you’re an adept listener of audio description, you can hear it, that person gives a crap about what they’re doing. And
we stand to lose all of that.
Does TTS serve a function in audio description? 100%. Like.
How to videos on YouTube, go for it.
That’s an entirely reasonable application for TTS. But if you’re taking premium content, what is it you’re trying to achieve by doing that?
The answer all your questions in life is money. That’s the old cliche.
It’s a pathetic thing that I have to say, but that’s really the answer. It’s always comes down to money.
— Sesame Street Word of the Day!
Can you say capitalism?
Ahh!The truth is, everywhere you look, there’s someone
trying to make a fast dollar by cutting costs and sacrificing quality.
Remember Economics class? Caveat Emptor or Let the buyer beware.
Consumers of all types should be educated enough to know the value of what they’re buying.
In this case, we’re talking about large companies, networks and streaming services that frankly have no experience with audio description.
So, how can they even begin to define quality AD?
Yet still they’re procuring millions of dollars in AD for old and new content.
They’re being misguided, misled because they’re talking to the clowns. They’re talking to people who are trying to sell them on something. They’re not necessarily talking to the audience.
I always encourage them, Are you sure, have you spoken to anybody about this? Has anybody told you by the way the audience doesn’t like this.
But the other part of this is an AD providers. If you’re confronted with that conversation, what do you do? Do you just go? Yes, sir, we can do it? Or do you go and take that opportunity to talk to them about what they’re asking for, to take that opportunity to go? Are you sure that the experience you want your audience to have of your content? That is your precious, precious item is a subpar experience? Because it doesn’t need to be.
Some how, some where, someone found a way to
either justify or convince streaming platforms and broadcasters that AD users want TTS.
TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
Wow, so you telling me that companies come to you? And they say we want TTS?
Yep. They do.
AI and TTS definitely can help a single passion project based podcast to produce an idea in order to express himself and hopefully make a point. But even I agree, there are limits.

— Suspenseful cinematic music

AD is still working today, but they say their future just doesn’t shine as bright as it did in the early years following the CVAA.
I can only imagine the pain of living day after day, being turned down for gigs, while watching as AI and TTS slowly replaces you.
I’m sure that can really take a toll on someone.
it feels like the classic Hollywood story.
Rising up from the bottom after working so hard, and then reaching the top.
It’s one thing to lose after so much success, but I can’t even describe the pain of watching the community move on.
In fact, they even continue to celebrate as if their unaware of the losses.
Sources tell me, AD, is considering going underground.
The less value placed on them the less likely supporters will be inclined to pay for their services.
That’s not really an optimal solution for anyone, but I also understand it is a response.
If AD can only make their way into the hearts and minds of creators, chances are they can have even more of a future. Not only providing the equitable access but perhaps even more of a chance to flex their creative muscles.

AD:
For years, I based my value on my productivity and how I could impact the organization’s bottom line.
I no longer see it that way.
I’m aware of what I bring to the community.
Not only am I helping more people access content, but I’m impacting culture, education, creativity. I’m making relationships and connections that go beyond access.
Today, I’m working more with independent producers who know the value of human centered art.
We’re having conversations that go beyond sticking to the script. I’m being asked for my creative input. This gives me hope and is actually exciting!
A true crime story that ends with the presumed victim feeling optimistic?
This is far from the norm.
Strangely, in this story, the true victims, don’t seem to realize they’ve been lied to.
They don’t know they were deceived.
In fact, some are celebrating as if none of this ever happened.
If that isn’t a crime, tell me , what is it?

— Music continues and fades out.

TR:
Reid My Mind Radio Family!
A few episodes ago I told you all about Portraits and Portals.
A powerful art showcase uplifting disabled artists and disaster survivors of color .
The art takes on multiple formats including audio, poetry, song and visual art.
As this is Flipping the Script, I know we have listeners and readers who are quite skilled in writing description.
Well it just so happens that Portraits and Portals are asking the community to share some of their creative and poetic descriptions for the artwork posted on the site.
They’ll include it among the access resources available for visitors with vision loss.
Just go to PortraitsAndPortals.com and visit the artist pages.
You’ll be able to provide your description for visual art pieces.
Who better than those who rock with Flipping the Script.
I’ll link you there directly on this episodes blog post at ReidMyMind.com.

This concludes the Flipping the Script on Audio Description season.
I’ll be back and hope you stay tuned.

— Abbreviated “Your Official”

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

For all y’all thinking, hmmm, what can I do| I wrote a checklist so you can become official too
Sample: “One” Chuck D!
You just can’t be down if you don’t follow or subscribe | That’s the number 1 way to join this tribe!
Sample: “Two” Chuck D!
Shout it out! Tell all your friends and your foes | That’s the way we help each other and the podcast grows
Sample: “Three” Chuck D!
Buy merch, shirt or hoodie for yourself or your boo | Now look at that, you’re official too! Woo!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official? | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
I said who’s official? | Official, uh uh official
(Applause)
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

— Music continues
Transcripts and more are available at ReidMyMind.com.
That’s my address on these internets.
And be careful, there’s a lot of artificial out here. It’s not all intelligent.
Sometimes it’s hard to know what’s real and what’s not.
There’s only one way to make sure you’re traveling safely out here, and you reach your intended destination.?
You gotta spell it right…
that’s R to the E I D!
“D” And that’s me in the place be!, Slick Rick

Like my last name.
— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace

Hide the transcript

TR:
In today’s episode, we continue in our ongoing advocacy for the inclusion of Blind people in audio description. Since this is Flipping the Script, where we go beyond the mainstream AD conversation, we’re going to show you how AD contributes to our creativity.

Welcome! I’m Thomas Reid and this is Reid My Mind Radio!

— Reid My Mind Radio theme music.

Kemal:
My name is Kemal Gorey. Some of my friends call me KG. I’m a Media Composer. He him, I identify as blind or legally blind. I have kind of brown gray hairs, medium length, and I have glasses, not sunglasses, but I have some fancy Mont Blanc glasses that I always like to mention because they are fancy.

Sample: “And I’m Super Bad” James Brown

I’m currently serving at ramped as a secretary. Recording Artists & Music Professionals with Disabilities. Also, I have a guide dog, who name is Blute means cloud in English.
She’s a yellowish golden retriever. But when she was a baby, the donors told me that she look like a cloud. So that’s why they gave the name Blute. If I do not mention her, she will make it a big deal.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Yeah. My daughter just got a dog it’s a baby, and he just got neutered, or, as I like to say, destroyed.

— Sound of a dog whimpering.

TR:
Now that I mentioned two dogs, I bet this will be one of the highest ranking podcast episodes. (Chuckles) You can’t compete with children or animals!

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So let’s talk about your relationship to disability, so folks have an understanding of where we’re coming from in this conversation.

Kemal:
My journey as a visually impaired individual starts in my really early months on the face of the earth.

My usual habit was blending in and finding some workarounds. That’s the main, central part of my relationship with my disability.

There’s a two face of this medallion this picture. First part is, yes, being innovative, being an inventor, and trying to blend in into the community.

Yes, I’m a natural problem solver, just like all other individuals with disabilities. But on the other hand, most of the energy that I’ve been spending in my childhood, to find ways to blend in, blend into the community, blend into the kindergarten , in the school, and Everywhere. It’s a matter of fact that how to hide yourself and how to hide your identity. It’s a dark part, because people, at least in 90s in my country, Turkey, it’s always a thing. People try to identify you with something.

you don’t look like you’re blind at all. That’s a thing.

TR:
A thing that we know is not exclusive at all to Turkey. In fact, this isn’t exclusive to blindness.

Over the years of producing this podcast, I’ve had the opportunity to speak with so many people about their own experience with disability. There’s no difference between, “You don’t look Blind” and “Girl, you look too good to be in a wheel chair.”

Another common experience we share, not giving in to the idea of hiding yourself.

Kemal:
And this was the center of my relationship with my disabled identity for a long time of my life, until the adulthood. Then I learned how to accept my identity, welcome it, and make it part of my life.

Yes, I’m blind, and it’s not only the part of my identity, but as a professional, it’s the part of my brand also.
When I decided to accept my identity as a trained musician, as a human being, as a composer , then the color of things started to change in a good way.
because then I know who I am, I accept who I am, I celebrate who I am

Then I found my community, although not in my country, but in the States. In spite of the fact that I still based in Istanbul, my body lives in Istanbul, but my career and my community stays and grows in the States, and I can’t be glad and grateful enough for that.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So I’m wondering, when you say blending in, does that have something to do with you and how you took to music? Is there a relationship?

Kemal:
You’re on a really great track here. That’s where my journey with music begins, and that’s the main motivation.

I remember my very first on stage experience, and it was when I was four. My uncle is a well known rock star in my country. Is one of the legends, one of the local and even kind of an international rock legend in Turkey, and my first, very first on stage experience was a duet with him. I think he was thinking it would be adorable to make a duet with a four year old kid.

TR:
Remember what I said about children and animals.

Kemal:
I remember clearly when I’ve seen all the crowd, and I was on stage, I thought, oh my god, the crowd area it’s really messy. It’s overcrowded and there’s a lot of noise in there and dark.
But on the contrary, stage was bright. There was only five or six people on the stage, and I have the microphone, so it looked safer to me.

TR:
And then it went beyond safety.

Kemal:
People shouting your name, clapping, celebrating you, good stuff comes with the live performance.

I can say that my father is an amateur guitar player. Music always was the great part of. My life. Yes, my the stereo was my beloved toy in my childhood when I was a kid. But this is the moment that I decided to start that journey. Maybe I didn’t know that entirely, but it led me to this professional path. That moment on the stage with the lights, and I was the one who has the microphone, who had the microphone.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
I love that.

What’s your uncle’s name?

Kemal:
My uncle has a really long Turkish name. Nejat Yavasogullari. The band’s name is Bulutsuzluk Ozlemi. He and his band has a really unique and important place, because my uncle himself mentored many other younger rock groups and opened the path for them, that’s why their legend. And also their song is still at the top of the rock genre in Turkey.

TR:
While that was Kemal’s first and last time performing with his uncle , (I’m telling you there’s no competing with children and animals)that set Kemal on his path. It helped him find his instrument.

Kemal:
I instantly fell in love with that big instrument and all the possibilities.

— Music begins: A bright piano melody.

I studied violin and cello in fine arts high school. I took some violin lessons, even drum set lessons. I still in love with bass guitar by myself, but the piano was the weapon I choose back in days, because
in my humble opinion, I think it’s the most complex instrument and the core of the music.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What were you listening to as a child that really sort of kind of connected with you?

Kemal:
Even though I’m a Turkish kid born and raised in Turkey because of my father and mother, jazz, blues and rock has (been )the major part in my life.

My dad is a really big Miles Davis fan. My mom herself is a really big fan of Buddy Guy. She still is. We have a little Buddy Guy statue in our house taken from the buddy guys home bar in Chicago.

I’m a really big fan of jazz and blues, even though never managed to become a full time jazz musician.
But somehow, even though it’s not a part my mom’s or dad’s musical life, somehow I decided to go start listening classical music.
Opera, in particular.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So tell me a little bit about your experience with audio description,

Kemal:
what if I tell you I’ve never experienced an audio description till I became a media professional.

— Swoosh that builds up and leads into a crash.

TR:
What?

— Music begins: “Dance Noir” By Kemal Gorey, a bright melodic tune consisting of a mix of various string instruments.

Kemal:
My career in the states starts in 2020 with the competition that I won, ran by Abel artist Foundation, founded by Steven letnes. I applied for his content for the contest that able artist foundation runs.

Somehow I recognize as a grand prize winner. There were some prizes linked with some publishers a couple of years past and I found myself in a project, working with Steve, a project called possibilities. You were also part of it, right?

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
I was interviewed for it.

TR:
It’s a documentary produced by the American Foundation for the Blind. They speak with a variety of different Blind people in all sorts of fields. Several are part of the RMM Radio family including Satauna Howery who narrates the open audio description.

Kemal:
That was the first time I’ve experienced the audio description because I’ve been working in the project as an additional music writer and Steve’s assistant, the composer assistant.

TR:
Composing music for a film with open audio description means you’re going to have to compose music that takes the AD into consideration.

Kemal:
I watched that documentary like, 1000 time.

Being visually impaired, legally blind, can put you in weird situations where, because the doctors keep telling you, you should using your site, but at the same time you same doctors keep telling you need accessibility, equipment and tools, all right, but where is the balance?

You are the one who should find the balance in your life and it can be tricky. Also, we really don’t have audio description. Let’s say the audio description was not that popular in Turkey or not existed at all at all, mostly back in the days.

Thanks to my private school education, I have a fairly acceptable English so I can watch movies in English, but I never tried an audio description. I saw audio description as an option, but with the possibilities, I experienced that for a long time, and then I utterly understand how comforting It is then, how crucial it is, because you never thought something’s important, until you experience it all by yourself.

TR:
Today?

Kemal:
Audio description should be the part of the core production budget. It shouldn’t be optional. It should be a requirement, a core budget item, like, we need music in the movie. We need dialog mix in the movie. . We need audio description in a movie or any kind of motion picture, that should be the rule, because the blind community have every right to access all media content in an accessible way.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Absolutely, I will not fight you on that. (Laughs)

Kemal:
(Laughing) You should not!

(The two laugh.)

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Now that you are aware of it after possibilities, do you access more content with audio description today?

Kemal:
I can’t say that because, I still have some sight.

My usual habit is still consuming the visual content with my eyes, but I’m also getting older, so I don’t know what future holds, but it’s really comforting and heartwarming that at least there is an option.

TR:
Options are great! Kemal, actually did take the opportunity to listen to audio description, not as a consumer, but as a creator.

Kemal:
actually, it was a really interesting, strange, challenging, definitely, maybe the most inspiring project that I have ever been. It’s called, how great is your darkness? A silent movie about disability culture and how medical institutions treats the disabled persons and why the ableism is really strong in that field.

It’s like a art house short movie established by seven short stories. Each one of them reflects different problems in the medical industry.

TR:
The film is currently making the film festival rounds and will hopefully arrive on a streaming platform at some point for us all to see.

Kemal:
A Finnish director, Jenny Iulia, please forgive me that I cannot pronounce her really long last name. She warned me not to try that.
She decided to create an audio description for that movie.

A Finnish person who is the father of the Finnish audio description scripted the audio description. They recorded it. She decided she wants music in that movie, but the music will be sync with the other description.

TR:
Yulia decided, she didn’t want the composer of the music for her film to actually see the film. Rather, she wanted to music to be composed based on the audio description.

Kemal:
It’s a comedy movie.
There’s a lot of sync points, like cartoonish sync points. Well,

TR:
A comedy? Not the first genre that comes to mind when thinking about ableism in medicine, but ok.

I haven’t seen the film, but if you’re not clear about sync points, think slap stick. You need the music to be timed with the pie in the face or the fall after slipping on the banana peel.
— Slapstick music

Kemal:
it’s a real comedy.

TR:
The challenges go beyond hitting the comedic sync points.

Kemal:
One, because it’s a silent movie, there’s no dialog. Everything is told by gestures and that’s why all the description never stops, talking, talking, talking. (Fades away)

So for a Media Composer, it’s a nightmare, because since the voiceover never stops, how I score something has its own taste, has its own part, but will not fight with the voiceover, which never stops.
But the bigger challenge is the director told me that she will combine the score, the audio description and the picture after I deliver everything to her. And I was like, okay, then give me the picture so I can catch all sing points, and it will be done. She told me , nah, I won’t give you anything, score the music, and we will see whether or not it will fit with the picture.

TR in conversation with Kemal:
She’s definitely a comedian.

(The two laugh.)

Kemal:
She’s a multidisciplinary artist. And I still can’t believe how inspiring she is. She took all the time talk about all the allegories that she used, all the reflections, all the sub context, and she was always accessible for questions and more debates in terms of how the music should be. And she didn’t give any hint what kind of music that she wants.

TR:
Fortunately, she hinted that she wanted the music to sound fancy. By that she meant classical.

Kemal:
I scored a Hollywood style comedy score, all the bells and whistles, all the wind, strings, brasses, percussion, everything.

TR:
The director’s plan was to move a few things around if necessary to sync the score to the film.

Kemal:
She called me eventually And she was like, Kemal, guess what? I said what? I decided to not change anything. I will place all cues as they are. I was like, Okay, why did you decided to do that? She was like, you will see. I will send you the picture.

TR:
He watched it. And of course, like any artist, he found some technicalities he could change, but all in all…

Kemal:
The score nailed it. It was like a magical moment for me, because I never tried to do that in my entire life. I used to work with picture. I’m proud of myself. It just worked with just audio description. And it’s a silent movie Thomas.

TR:
Audio description is more than entertainment. It’s empowering.

Kemal:
it was my proudest moment on my professional career, I nailed a ridiculous challenge, and it opens a whole new door in my creativity and in the world of creativity, I assume because now we have a proof of concept that a Blind Media Composer can score a motion picture thing. It can be a short movie, it can be a feature film, it can be a cartoon. It can be anything, if there’s audio description that will be enough. And if you want to make it perfect, then provide some time codes, it will be perfect.

TR:
Octavia Butler wrote; “there’s nothing new under the sun.”

In 1979 Stevie Wonder released the album Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. This was the score to the documentary titled Secret Life of Plants.

— Audio from the documentary…

Stevie, or some of y’all know I like to refer to him as my uncle Stevie, (a filtered voice remarks, “He’s not your uncle.) scored the film based on the description he was given of the films visuals; ahem, audio description.

This doesn’t take anything away from Kemal’s accomplishment . I share this to be factual and model the idea that we’ve been here y’all!
An awareness of our history, especially going beyond what we’re spoon fed, is inspiring and let’s us know it’s all possible.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What made Jenny Yulia choose you?

Kemal:
She wanted to work with a blind composer and the creator team found me because I published an article in blind new world in beginning of 2024.

TR:
I’ll link you to that article in this episode’s blog post at ReidMyMind.com.

Kemal
Then we connected on Zoom. And something clicked between Yulia and I, and I knew that it will be hell of a journey with her. And it really was

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
You have a great energy, bro. So I can see why people would click with you.

Kemal:
it’s very kind of you, thank you so much for that.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
You mentioned that this accomplishment open the door for creativity. Yes, we can score animation. We can score movies. Does it go beyond that for you?

Kemal:
Actually, yeah. I want to focus on Western art music Impressionism, and expressionism. These are the two genres in the Western art music area and there are fathers of that, two genres, one with you, interpretate what you see. It can be a painting, it can be a sculpture, it can be anything. It can be even a kind of a story or poem.

— “Mona Lisa” Nat King Cole

TR:
I’ve been interested in sound designing image descriptions for various pieces of art including paintings and sculptures.
Rather than your straight vanilla reading of an image description, imagine how engaging an experience could be when
we combine a performed reading of a poetic image description with musical composition and sound design?

As Blind people, we aren’t going to have the same experience with visual art so why not strive for new experiences.

Kemal:
The music should serve the story, it’s like a sidekick to the story, and audio description, even though tells what’s going on
it will definitely fail to express all the allegories in it. And the music comes to help, because music tells whether or not it’s creepy, lousy, fictitious, Mystic, empowering, engaging, heroic, the music, the one which expresses the emotions, like anger, love, being desperate, outrage, or the expressions like, hilarious, annoying, embarrassing.

from a blind audience perspective, they will not be able to see the clouding, they will not be able to see the color grading because audio description has a limited time to tell what’s going on.

TR:
We’re talking about all of the small details in a scene whether static or moving. Could it be written? Yes. But is it always the most engaging?

Kemal:
The score can do those kind of things.
What if score tells the weather is cloudy and the woman, even though look pretty, she has something in her mind that makes her sad. An audio description will maybe express some of those, but will not be able to tell all of it. But music can express those things with the sounds that opens the whole new world of creativity to me.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What does the ad viewer need to know? Are we literate enough to be able to translate what you’re communicating musically?

I think what I really probably should say is that we need to pay more attention.

I’ll admit that I listen to the music and I listen to sound design and I get the vibe, but I don’t know if I always put it into context of what the story is saying.
I feel like I need to be paying more attention to that music, that sound design, and the AD. It’s a lot of work.

Kemal:
It’s not entirely your fault.

Maybe audio description might mask the score in some certain places. Maybe the director wants to go another route. Maybe they don’t want to use music at all. We should look at the masterpieces here. I think the most famous score, Star Wars.

TR:
Next time on Flipping the Script on Audio Description, we’ll explore sound design and music in movies.
What are some of the things we should know, how can we become more active listeners and maybe take a listen to some examples.

Not just for the sake of doing so but with the intention of making use of the other ways information is communicated in visual media. Creative ways that we as non visual consumers can explore and benefit from.

In addition to composing for film, Kemal has some top secret projects I look forward to learning more about in the future.

Kemal:
We’ve been working on a project with Lachi, my friend and colleague. I can’t tell more about it just yet, NDA’s.

There’s also something coming up. I just saw the papers in my email just before I connected here. It will be kind of a different project, that much I can tell. It won’t be a motion picture thing, it will be a theatrical. Takes place in New York.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
If you’re gonna be in New York City, definitely let me know. I’m right there man.

Kemal:
I will definitely do that.

TR:
For Kemal, music helped him, in his own words, blend in. For some that may sound like hiding and perhaps at one point it was. But today, Kemal is clear about what that means to him.

Kemal:
In the past? It means, if people doesn’t get the clue that I have a site condition, then I will consider myself blended.

I think it kind of ruined my social life when I was young, and it kind of ruined my love life.
Now, blending is celebrating who you are.

Everybody, including myself accepts my identity. Everybody including myself celebrates it, because that’s who I am.

Thanks to my dear friend Steven Letnes, and thanks to ramped recording artists and music professionals with disabilities, thanks to all those, I’ve found a community. Now blending is celebrating who you are, celebrating your identity, celebrating that out loud. Hey, my name is Kemal and I identify as blind. And what’s up with that?

(The two proudly laugh.)

TR:
That’s right, what’s up with that. (Ouie!)

I respect that commitment to shouting out those who support you along the way, especially mentors and those in your community.

Check out this episodes blog post for links to both The Able foundation and RAMPD.
And of course I’ll link you to KemalGorey.com where you can check out more about Kemal and his music.

Kemal:
kilo, Echo, Mike, Alpha, Lima, golf, Oscar, Romeo. Echo, yankee.com.

TR:
As the kids used to say, Google him baby!

Find him on all social media platforms.

Kemal:
Everything KemalGorey, blue sky, Instagram, LinkedIn, IMDb and ramped also. All professional members have their profiles at RAMPD.

TR
This is right about the time when I let the guest know how much I appreciate the fact that they shared their expertise and time with the family.

I was inspired to do that a little differently now, check this out.

— Music begins: A piano synth loop that leads to a strong kick and driving beat.
TR:
In 2014 I introduced you to this podcast | It’s a passion project, that means all love, no cash
Over 10 years bringing you nothing but facts | my goal for this has always been impact!
I invite a guest, take a topic tailor it just for you | a disability perspective always shining through
Thanks to my guest for sharing your time with me, You’re official | Reid My Mind Radio Family… Raa!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official? | Official, uh uh official
Kemal: Kemal Gorey
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

For all y’all thinking, hmmm, what can I do| I wrote a checklist so you can become official too
Sample: “One” Chuck D!
You just can’t be down if you don’t follow or subscribe | That’s the number 1 way to join this tribe!
Sample: “Two” Chuck D!
Shout it out! Tell all your friends and your foes | That’s the way we help each other when the podcast grows
Sample: “Three” Chuck D!
Buy merch, shirt or hoodie for yourself or your boo | Now look at that, you’re official too! Woo!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official? | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
I said who’s official? | Official, uh uh official
(Applause)
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

There it is!

Follow or subscribe wherever you get podcasts!
You know how we do, right?
Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com
And so there’s never, ever, ever, ever any confusion
That’s R to the E I
Sample: D! And that’s me in the place to be! Slick Rick
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace

Hide the transcript

— Clock Ticking
TR:
–(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice) Times up!

TR:
Well, that was then.

If you’re just tuning in and you don’t know what I’m referring to, please go back and listen to the episode last month titled, Time’s UP!

It’s the latest version of what I’ll call a protest by podcast. My own rage against the machine! That is, the systemic exclusion of narrators of color from audio description.

The episode helps me cope with the feelings; frustration, unfairness, pissed offativity.

— Filtered voice: (Well actually, that’s not a word!)

They know exactly what I’m talking about!

Sometimes you just got to get it out of your system.

today, I’m sticking to the place where I landed. That’s focusing on those who appreciate, respect and promote access that reflects the art of the global majority. Those who believe in tearing down the practice of exclusion in order to create audio description that truly centers the Blind Community… the full, rich, diverse community.

Y’all hear that….
— Birds chirping. begins to raise in volume.

It sounds like a new day is dawning.

I’m Thomas Reid the host and producer of this here podcast…
I told you before; (mischievous hmm) time’s up! There’s a real change underway.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
Allow me to introduce you to the team, out of the UK called Sound Scribe.
First up, Reid My Mind Radio family and alumni, Elaine Lillian Joseph.

Elaine:
I’m a black West Indian woman. Pronouns. She her from Birmingham (Woo!) in the UK. I am in my 30s. Today. I have my hair in a bun, and I wear glasses.
and I’m currently in London, and it’s actually sunny here, which is rare.

TR:
Rare, but fitting.
I told you, it’s the dawning of a new day.

Elaine:
My role in SoundScribe is as a co-founder and principally as an audio describer, also across the kind of project management as well.

So yeah, that’s me. Woo!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
And Elaine brought her own Woo. I like that.

Elaine:
I wasn’t going to wait for the Woo’s.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
I hear you! I bring my woos wherever I go.

TR:
Let’s keep those Woo’s going for Lesta. L E S T A.

Lesta:
I’m an East Asian woman. I’m Chinese, and I’m visually impaired as well. I’m quite pale with freckles. I have long black, sort of waist length hair in a ponytail. I’m always a little bit glamorous. I’m quite petite, athletic, and my pronouns are, she her.
For sound scribe. I’m basically a consultant. So, I comment on the audio description that is provided, or like I come in quite early to help the derivation of the audio description. And I basically complain a lot. I feel that’s my job, but I also comment on the actual performances as well, and the space that they do it in, as well as how they execute it.

TR:
Complaining can also be called quality control.
We’re talking about a member of the target audience who can provide helpful feedback on the script, narration and mix.
Improving the final product before release.

Next, meet Shivaangee.

Shivaangee:
Or you can call me Shiv. My pronouns are they and she and I am a person in my 30s with heritage from India.

I’m kind of light brown skinned, with black hair, dark eyes. I have two nose piercings in my left nostril. I’m wearing a necklace and more earrings, so some jewelry, and a green netted top for the heat today, and freshly, freshly shaved sides to my hair, which feel great.

I co-founded soundscribe with Elaine, though, I’d say Elaine kind of does a little bit more leadership of in a direction we’re going, and I sort of support with that And some of the project management as well.

I’m actually trained and work as a dance artist, and that’s a really fun collaboration to do with Elaine, because I guess I can bring a little bit of the embodied experience of moving and dancing, and Elaine brings a lot of experience in all thing’s audio description.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
shiv, tell me a little bit about how you got into AD.

Shivaangee:
A friend and choreographer called Mira Patel does a lot of work with blind, visually impaired, deaf and hearing-impaired communities in order to understand how Indian classical dance, which is what I’m trained in, and what she’s trained in, can be more accessible for these communities.

So, it was through coming on board to her work that I was trained as an audio describer.

Through that work, I felt like access and accessibility was something I could really relate to on other levels, in other ways that I have experience of marginalization and othering.

I just really deeply connected to the importance of accessibility and how everybody can benefit from disability justice, and it felt like a really foundational area that can inform;
How Indian classical dance can be made more accessible to people who don’t know what Indian classical dance is.
How dance can become more accessible.
How we can start to think about dance without prioritizing the visual sense.
How we can decenter sighted and non-disabled perspectives and dance.

TR:
Shiv isn’t the only dancer in SoundScribe.

Lesta:
I have a background in the arts, so I’m an architect and I’m also a dancer as well at the same time.

I understand space really well, and I understand movement really well.

TR:
Of course Lesta also brings her personal experience with audio description.

Lesta:
When I first became visually impaired as an adult, I started using audio description, and I was just really grumpy about it.

I use audio description with like films and TV and sometimes theater, but it’s just really bad.

I’m just grumpy about the fact that I have to watch so many things that are just really badly described, and therefore I don’t quite understand what’s going on

Because I’m in the UK, it’s called SI, sight impaired, or if your blind, it’s severely sight impaired. I’m Si, so I do have some sight.

It is a choice for me to use my eyes or not.

TR:
Lesta went on to say that the quality really does vary. Sometimes it’s better. But when it’s bad, it’s really bad!

Lesta:
I would prefer to go through the physical pain and also not understanding what’s going on than using audio descriptions.

TR:
Ouch!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
Okay, are you still grumpy today? (laughs) I mean about AD. Have you seen any improvement in the state of audio description and what you’re getting in a movie theater?

Lesta:
The difficulty is that quite a lot of film theaters don’t even provide it. So even if it was well done on a film, it’s not provided so you can’t even access it. I would say that is pretty problematic in the UK.

I use Netflix, and sometimes I go for the audio description. It is getting slightly better, so at least they are doing the work to actually describe it well, I just find it quite robotic, because I feel like audio description is effectively a performance. It’s reflection of the art form that you’re kind of viewing, whether it’s dance or theater, film, TV, it’s all part of the performance trip, because you’re kind of describing what you’re viewing.

It has to marry.

TR:
That’s a union between the content and the audio description.

— Sound of a door locking with a wooden latch.

— Music begins, a “house’ inspired, upbeat bouncy bass drum, with crescendo reverse cymbals and finger snaps as snares.

TR:
Now that we’ve met the individuals, let’s find out how they became SoundScribe.

Elaine:
so me and Shiv actually go back to Uni, and then a mutual friend of ours basically put us in touch, and was like, you’re an audio describer and you’re an audio describer.

Me and Shiv went to a dance event that was about audio description and then we went to a pub, and then we just bitched and complained.

Oh, we really have a lot in common, as audio describers, basically, but specifically as audio describers who aren’t white. So I really took a lot of solidarity from that, and I just felt like I had so many ideas, and it was really great to be able to have someone else who shared those ideas.

We joined forces, and we’ve kind of been growing since then.

TR:
Joining forces based on philosophies, yeh, I can get with that!

Elaine:
I really felt like we were just so aligned in terms of the philosophy we already had individually for our practices as audio description wanting to find like minded people. For me, it was really important to bridge that gap at that time, on a personal level, between the work that I was doing but also the audience that I was doing that work for.

At the time, I was working in TV, and I just really felt like to grow as an audio describer, I needed to be in contact with more blind folk, but also to grow as a art form, as a practice.

I just felt like that was the kind of missing key for me.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
What was it that made you feel as though it was important to be in contact with the community. So being in community, why was that important?

Elaine:
I guess I felt like the guidelines that I was given and that I kind of trained under, which are perfectly fine, but I just really felt like they had been shaped by sighted people, and that at some point it felt like maybe, maybe those voices had been lost and that voice just hadn’t Been really updated.

So I found that I was having conversations like when I was first on your podcast, we were just talking about describing race, for example, and just this idea that, like for blind users, that there’d be, like a default conception of who we’re describing, and that default is white. And I really felt like if we just had some voices who were Blind and people of color, then we would just cut through this need to have these endless conversations. I just really felt like, if these people were just in the room, then things would move so much faster.

With any craft, it just makes sense to include the end users as part of the production of the art.
I just think it utterly enriches it.
I think it cuts through any kind of biases that I will definitely have as like a sighted person. It broadens the kind of perspective of the audio description as well, like working. With you. Leicester is such a joy, because, literally, every single project I learned something new.

Leicester’s just pulled a really, a really sweet pose just highlight how angelic they are.

Lesta:
As a person that is both POC and disabled, I felt quite heard to be involved in the company as well, because existing as an intersectional person you’re effectively like an other of an other, and usually you’re sort of forgotten in many different kind of groups, because you’re kind of categorized as not quite that person in multiple ways. So usually your voice is forgotten.

So this was quite interesting, because my role and a bunch of other blind people was to just complain about stuff, and because I complained about stuff in a very ethnic way as well then I think they probably just picked up on it as well. So they’re kind of bitching in the cafe. Is the sort of the same mentality I have. So, yeah, it was just really wonderful to be heard. So thank you.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
I want to keep my facts straight. That wasn’t a cafe, that was a pub!

Lesta:
pub, yes,

Elaine:
exactly.

TR:
Y’all picking up on this idea of bitching or complaining?

It’s identifying the problems. As Lesta noted, it’s centering your full experience as a consumer.
Two different consumers with varying backgrounds will more than likely have two separate experiences, that’s cool! What’s not cool is deciding that one is the standard.

So my urging to the community… complain away!

First we complain, then we make change.

— Sound of two glasses clinking in a bar as in a toast!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
Okay, so let’s move into your philosophy, your approach to audio description.

Elaine:
I was just thinking about some of the words that might really motivate us.
One of them is
generative.

So the idea that audio description can actually generate art.

For example, audio description led movement workshops. Sometimes they’re like, warm ups or warm downs, and often in those workshops, choreography is created with the cast, with the choreographer, with the rehearsal director, and then sometimes that choreography even makes it into the show itself, which is the most exciting outcome of those kinds of workshops.

So really seeing audio description as a catalyst for performance making.

TR:
Elaine, Lesta and Shiv make up the core of SoundScribe, but part of their philosophy is to work with all sorts of folks from the Blind community.

Elaine:
Providing consultancy, training, providing sustainable jobs as well.
for example, sound engineers.

We work with a full range of different people, but wanting that to be focused as like blind led a big thing for us is anti objectivity, and by that, like we don’t ever want to kind of patronize anybody. We’re not making audio description that tells people how to think, but we do want to be proud and open about our subjectivity in our work.

That’s what feels really exciting about this.
Collaboration and creating something that is global majority led, and anti ableist as well.

Elaine:
So as Shiv mentioned, de centering sight as the primary way of accessing art.

Just trying to think about different ways of accessing art.

TR:
That can mean getting the artists, the content makers to think about the Blind audience, before the content is made.

Elaine:
When we come in from the beginning as audio describers, from the beginning of whatever the project is, it might be like a film that hasn’t been filmed yet. It might be a painting that hasn’t been painted, or a dance show.

We can help to shape a piece of art that is from the beginning thinking about blind and visually impaired people.

The exciting element for me working now within SoundScribe, is getting to work on shows that I actually want to go and see not working at the end, where we have a fixed product and we have to mold or do description to fit in, because then basically 10 times out of 10 that project has not been created with blind people in mind.

coming in from the beginning, I think is a really big part of our ethos, and sort of really privileged actually, to have found enough artists that also want to work in that way.

Shivaangee:
In contrast to a lot of audio describers currently out there, I think we also want to kind of treat audio description as a practice rather than just a service. So by practice we mean that it’s like a live and evolving thing where Elaine I and Lesta are well, and especially Elaine and I are kind of constantly re evaluating, like, well, what are the goals of this? What are the principles underpinning this? What are we trying to get to? What’s our ideal vision? So there’s a sense of it being a dynamic thing that is not just a fixed service, but we evolve as audio describers, and we evolve the way we do things, but also in terms of practice. It’s like a holistic thing. It informs our principles of;
how we work.
how we are with each other
how we work with the artist
what kind of things we’re advocating for beyond just having audio description,

And that feels maybe quite important to our philosophy as a collective.

TR:
Think of SoundScribe as providing tailored, custom AD. They measure each individual project separately and design the AD experience based on the objectives of the content.

It feels like it really serves the art. Enabling the SoundScribe team to grow as artists themselves.

Shivaangee:
We have so many conversations with new clients, where by just speaking to a potential new client about their work and what they’re creating that we get excited about. Oh my gosh, we could actually offer a completely different kind of audio description for this work.

That’s another reason why Elaine and I work so well, as we get really excited about the possibilities of things we have not actually tried yet and have not experienced in terms of audio description.

(Shivaangee:
We did a project where we trialed for the first time having audio descriptions that’s actually takes a format of a dialog between Elaine and myself, rather than a one person scripted thing. So the thing that people were listening to was a. Conversation between Elaine and I as we were in the audience watching the show.

We’re developing a methodology for improvised audio description, because actually, we’re finding that improvised audio description works a lot better for dance shows that are more improvised than set choreography.

So I guess it’s also being really curious and open and excited about pushing ourselves in terms of what we can offer, and not letting ourselves kind of fall short of the possibilities that might exist.

Lesta:
It’s performative, it’s an art form, and it’s responsive to the art form that you’re trying to describe. So if the dance performance was improvised, then the way you describe it has to be improvised, because you have no idea what they’re going to move like. So that’s a skill in itself.

Shivaangee”
And requires a different kind of preparation and a different kind of contact with the creative team.

TR:
You might be wondering if this customized approach, where SoundScribe is wearing their subjectivity on their sleeve affects their clientele.

Elaine:
Shiv is smiling!

Shivaangee:
I’m ready for this response. Elaine,

Elaine:
We are very intentional about who we work with and what kinds of projects we want to work with. And we’re very aware, alert to language, for example, if we’re going to work with this client, then they are anti ableist and they are anti racist, and they really, truly understand what those two words mean and why it matters to us in the world of accessibility.

I feel quite lucky that we’ve found so many artists that we do want to work with in this way, and that a lot of the work that we’re doing is quite experimental audio description.

We’re not really doing much traditional theater shows. A lot of it really is, like quite Avant Garde in terms of our clients. So that feels really great.

Shivaangee:
There’s so much to say about the intersection of race and disability. I’m just like, where do we begin?

Thomas, I was listening to some of your podcasts, and I think you speak really eloquently about being black and blind. It’s really refreshing to hear someone speaking about that intersection, because I guess we want to work with people who understand what anti racism is and how like intersectionality, like manifests in disability.

You can still bring whiteness with you if you’re disabled, you can be making an accessible piece of work that’s actually not that culturally accessible to people of color.

I guess I feel inspired by giving artists of color the opportunity to create really accessible work that is accessible for disabled people.

I guess I have qualms about disability justice also being led often by white people. So it’s really inspiring and satisfying when we can work to bring high quality, accessible work to artists of color.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
Have you ever been in a situation where you’re approached by someone and they don’t meet your requirements. Are you? Like, we can’t work with you.

Shivaangee:
that happens quite frequently, and quite unsurprisingly, we get a sense of that very quickly.

We’ll get a sense of, this is not going to work out. It’s thankfully, often quite obvious.

Sometimes we have a sense of like we could work with this client. Not everybody’s going to be in the same place when it comes to justice and understanding your practice of justice.
And often we have a conversation around we could work with this client, it will probably be a bit challenging for us in these ways, and we might have to do some reiterating of these principles and education. But then Elaine and I turn to each other and we’re like, do we have the capacity for that right now? Or, like, does the remuneration of this project allow for that kind of work to be done? And if not, then fuck it that’s they can choose someone else.

Lesta:
from my perspective, sometimes it’s quite a good thing to actually partake in these sorts of things. I’m quite hardened, so my viewpoint is like, one way to deal with this sort of thing is to explode it from the inside, you know, once you’re in, just start having a go, see what happens. You know, because then they’re not used to it.

They obviously want to listen or have the good intention to it’s just that they’re not at that right place quite yet.

— Clock ticking

TR:
I’m telling y’all… times up!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
So you raised two projects, and I want to talk about that.
I’m very interested in the dialog AD. Can we start there?

Elaine:
so that’s a show that we’re actually going to do again, and I’m really, really excited, because hopefully we can come back with, like, basically, bigger, better tech.

It’s a really good example of an artist and producer who just got the vision from the beginning. They were like, such, yes, people anything that we needed, and that was the first time that we’d worked with Lesta as well.

It’s called Impact Driver. The artist is called Eve Stanton. And that was a show that featured live welding with a huge, massive welding container. It’s really awesome. I think five to six performers very, very improvised. Lots of solo work, duet work, writhing with metal to live musicians on opposite ends of the venue, playing guitar. So it was quite a loud experience, and because of where the container was, it meant that me and Shiv basically needed to be on opposite ends, especially because the performers were roaming, and you’d never know actually which path they take.

TR:
Ah, the idea of improvised AD makes even more sense in these circumstances.

Elaine:
It was also a really good example of leading ad workshop. It meant that the entire cast, then totally got it. They were like, Oh, this is what audio description is. They also started to think about their own choreography from a linguistic sense as well.

How can we name the things that we’re doing, which is really helpful for us, because that’s its own kind of audio description.

I would describe what I could see say in the front half of the stage, including in the welding container. And then Shiv was behind that, also describing. If a performer roamed beyond my sight line, then basically, Shiv would take over.

Performing it live, was really exhilarating.

Terrifying before the show starts, and then this calm just kind of descend, and you just go for it.

It felt really, dare I say punk. because the whole show felt really punked as well. So it was a kind of like loud, messy audio description.

Leicester came in at a super, super messy, moment, because we hadn’t actually tested hours at that point. And, yeah, it was really great.

I think we had maybe four or five visually impaired people who came along to that trial run and gave us some really, really invaluable feedback before the actual show.

Shivaangee:
Most of it was in darkness as well and four different speakers around the room. So it was very intense environment, even as a sighted audience member.

TR:
Sounds like another one of those situations where the AD could serve a broader audience.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
How are you all thinking about possibly using the back and forth aspect of it?
Are you thinking about ways where you can bring that into something else?

Shivaangee:
So we’re in conversations with a new client that we’ve not worked with before, and the work that they’re creating is all about visibility and invisibility of queerness, and it uses kind of a mirror and like a gray board as two key props in the work, where they use illusion and disappearing as A metaphor for their exploration.

There’s like the middle of the audience where you’ll get the Perfect Illusion. And then if you’re sitting anywhere, that’s not the middle of the audience, you will not benefit from that Perfect Illusion. So now they’re thinking, as they’re getting into staging, well how do we navigate this fact that 80% of the audience is not going to get our Perfect Illusion?

So in our conversation with them about audio description, we all came up with the idea of Elaine and I roaming the sets and kind of audio describing to each other, what we can see and what we can’t see as a way of really leaning into this thing of you’re not going to get a perfect view of what’s happening, and each person is going to get a slightly different view of the illusion.

They got really excited about how it can actually support their work and support this whole illusion that they’re trying to problem solve.

Lesta:
I think it’s like, the more different projects that basically you’re involved in, essentially, you can test out different ways of doing stuff. And if the clients are open, then you can just try it. It’s very experimental and very trial based. It’s quite exciting in that respect, because it’s the development of audio description as a entity that can be informed into sort of the general consensus as well.

Shivaangee:
We’re talking about the really optimistic experiences we’ve had where people, as Elaine said, have been like, yes, producers and yes, artists who have been like, we love this. We love the experimental, creative potential, body description. Let’s go all out. But I feel like that’s definitely not status quo in the industry and a lot of people just simply don’t have the budget.
They don’t have the capacity, time wise, in their creation schedule to give us that much play time.

So I’d say just to balance out, we do bump into a lot of no’s as well that like that sounds great for the future, but for this time round, we have this many days and this much money and this to work with.

It feels important to also name that these are optimistic scenarios where we find these wonderful artists,

TR:
Reality checks are necessary.

But these artistic, experimental projects will inevitably make their way into the mainstream.
Not all at once or as radical, but rather small aspects of them will show up here and there.

Access doesn’t have to be solely functional.
It can go beyond the access and do more.

Lesta:
When me and Shiv did many lifetimes, she sat next to me, and we were testing her audio description, and I was sort of saying, Oh, but like, and it was improvised as well. So she did a really great job in general. But like, they were like, seven dancers, and they all had really different characters and the way they moved, because I can still use some of my site, and I can still understand the blobs in front of me, sort of So I was like, this person kind of looks like a martial artist. He’s, like, really dynamic. This guy’s like, all over the place, like roaming around outside of this, the room and everything. And this one is kind of like really intimate, because it was all about grief, the whole the whole piece. And I said, you know, maybe the way you describe it, in your language and in how you deliver it can be different, depending on the solo, because it’s describing their intention of demonstrating grief of death in a very, very personal way. That was an example of, you know, like how the how audio description can be an art form itself, like that.

Shivaangee:
I remember you saying you wouldn’t have necessarily have come to watch the show if we hadn’t brought you as a consultant.

That makes Leicester’s work even more impressive.
In that show there wasn’t any explicit sense that each person was a character. It was a very personal, autobiographical kind of context each of these solos. So there’s actually Lesta picking up, as we were kind of speaking to each of the artists, and Lesta was there. Lesta picked up. And actually, don’t you think they all have quite different personalities, and they have different ways of manifesting in the space. Maybe we can start to assign certain characteristics in the way that you’re even describing them and the tone of voice you’re using, which was really insightful given that this is not the kind of work necessarily that you would choose to see or like choose to enjoy.

Lesta:
Otherwise, no, no. I mean, you know, also there was some sort of difficulties in the space as well. So, I was able to suggest things like, just generally in the actual building itself, because of my architectural background, but also in the space itself.

I think it helped anybody that else would like to come see it actually. You know, in terms of watching Dance, I used to love watching dance performances all the time after my site is progressive, basically, but I watch, I don’t really like watching things now, just because it’s, it’s, it’s not that accessible. And dance specifically is not very accessible, but it is becoming more so because of different. Methodologies. And so it’s actually getting more joyful to be able to go see these things. I think a lot of vision impaired people feel like that, like, you know, dance is just not an art form they can enter into or have a look at. But because it’s being done in this sort of experimental way, I think that’s very appropriate and like quite useful.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
great to hear. That’s great, especially coming from you Lesta, because you keep saying you’re grumpy.

I’m saying you’re not grumpy.

Shivaangee:
Though, I love that we using grumpy as like a euphemism.

Lesta:
It’s a very British word.

— Transition

TR:
I’m excited for SoundScribe. They recognize what’s really important to them. Like , community!

Elaine:
I don’t think we’re looking to explode in numbers at all. I really like the kind of intimacy of our collaboration.
There are many people who we collaborate with that people won’t necessarily know about.
There are so many sound engineers that we work with, ESL interpreters, other consultants. It’s such a beautiful network.

TR:
The importance of going beyond the work and supporting one another.

Elaine:
Lesta’s taking us out jazz dancing, which I’m very excited about.

Shivaangee:
Lesta is an incredible jazz dancer, yeah, so we can’t wait to, like, experience Leicester in that capacity as well.

Lesta
Oh I hyped up too much.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
I have a feeling Lesta is going to show and prove.

TR:
The value in dreaming.

Elaine:
My dream would be to bring on another narrator, maybe, or scripter who is blind?

TR:
The importance of equity.

Elaine:
I think there needs To be an industry shift.
For example, with theaters, they tend to work with the same people.
The way that I personally moved into that sector was through recommendations from other people who were working in those theaters basically and couldn’t do a job, and then passed it on.

It is definitely quite cliquey in the UK. I don’t think that venues will really take a risk on a new person unless they come with a recommendation, and those recommendations are from mostly white, middle class women.
I think there’s a bit of gatekeeping in the industry, even when people are trained, even when you have a whole cohort, there could be like 20 of us that are all trained and ready to go, then the door is kind of already shut.

I feel like no one really wants to kind of admit that, because then you have to give up work. It’s a hard economy, people are scared.
They don’t want to do that.

TR:
It doesn’t have to be just a dream.

(Elaine:
I would love for us to just get a bunch of funding and train some people. And also join forces with a venue so that we are guaranteed we are the in house audio describers, and now we’re going to bring in seven different people who are all going to get to have a go at what you’re describing, that to me would be like, Yeah, that’ll be a future goal.

We’ve got many plans, Thomas, we’ve got plans!

Shivaangee:
I think the discourse is also important. I don’t know what it’s like in the US, but in the UK, there’s just so much tiptoeing around race. People will not talk about it unless you bring it up.
It’s really important just to keep naming that, just to keep bringing white people’s attention to race.

Are you employing anybody else in your creative team that’s not white?
Often we are the only people on the wide creative team that are global majority.
and sadly, it’s kind of important to keep naming it for people so that they are aware of the subjectivities they’re bringing into the work and who they’re giving opportunities too.

TR:
And finally, recognizing the importance of gratitude.

Elaine:
I feel really, really lucky to be in this space.

TR:
I couldn’t let the conversation end without asking Lesta, about her thoughts on some current AD topics.

I really liked her perspective on how TTS further reduces that human connection and how important that is especially after vision loss.

Lesta:
When you start to lose your sight, you start to lose not just your sight, but the sociability associated with it, the connection to other humans, looking at each other, knowing where everyone knows and everything, and not being able to maybe go out as much or do stuff as you wanted to you used to, especially those who weren’t born blind. So the connection to a human is really desirable. And you know, going to shows and having a sort of live audio description or like someone speaking, you start to get that kind of connection. Because when you actually go to a show as a sighted person, you go to a show live because you want to be connected to, say, the dancer or the art, the actor in front of you. Otherwise you just watch it on TV.

TR:
Even the technology of closed audio description can affect that connection for Lesta.

Lesta:
When I wear a headset, it just cuts out my ability to understand the background noise and the footsteps of the dances, the sound of wind as they move past. These are the things that you lose that are like humanistic so I tend to veer away from technology.
in terms of audio description, I prefer to be present in the space.

TR:
And, on the subject of authentic representation in AD narration?

Lesta:
Well, that is an interesting topic, isn’t it?

If you go back again to the fact that it’s a performance, I would say that it’s a reflection of the art form. So it has to be appropriate and relevant, it’s performative. It’s not just like a service at the end where you’re just saying a load of stuff that’s describing the whole art piece.

TR:
While she is all in for cultural appropriate casting, she identifies the related problem faced by narrators of color in audio description.

Lesta:
And actually, every profession under the sun, not just audio description.

A person of color, is quite often put in a box, pigeonholing in the UK, so you only do these types of jobs. I feel like that with race, but I also feel like that with my visual impairment. Like, it’s intersectional as well, right?

A person of color or a person who is disabled can work in these specific type of fields, where it’s culturally competent and appropriate, but also can work in other aspects of everything. So Elaine can go and do her Marvel show. That’s totally cool like if she wanted to, because the thing is, is that it’s about like ability as well. These two women are great audio describers. It’s not like there’s nothing to do with their ethnicity or the way they look, it’s just their skill level. So they should be appreciated for that.

TR:
Well, I can tell you I appreciate Elaine, Lesta and Shivaangee… SoundScribe!

If you’re in the UK and want to work with SoundScribe or just let them know you think they’re dope, head on over to there website

SoundScribe.co.Uk.

TR in Conversation with SoundScribe:
Well, Elaine, you already know Lesta Shiv after every episode, for those who come onto the podcast and they share their information, they share their time and share with the family, I gotta let y’all know that you’re now an official part of the Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Shivaangee:
Thank you so much for inviting us into this conversation. It was a privilege.

TR:
I really enjoyed that conversation.

I have a feeling we’ll be hearing more from SoundScribe in the future. They’re doing cool stuff and our philosophies are aligned.

Anti racist, anti ableist… anti hate!

You can’t say you want the world to be those things without being intentional. So what are you doing in your space?

Let me know!

Hit me up at ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I hope you all will continue rocking with Reid My Mind Radio and subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts.

You know, we have transcripts and more over at ReidMyMind.com.

Only one way to get there…
I’m mean, you can take a car and put your luggage in the boot, take the tube, or ride the lift to the top floor,
but you’ll still need to spell it right….

that’s R to the E I D!

— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be”, Slick Rick

Like my last name
— Reid My Mind Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:
Hosting and producing a podcast alone, requires taking on multiple roles.
Ring master, assuring everyone in the audience is aware and entertained. Knowing when to bring out the next act, do something silly to make an audience member giggle a bit or call in the clowns.

We juggle all sorts of responsibilities, walk a fine line when picking and choosing what to include or leave out of an episode.
Hopefully, we make it look easy so others can simply enjoy themselves and walk away feeling informed, uplifted, encouraged with a smile on their face.
With that said, there’s only one way to kick off this first episode of our Flipping the Script on Audio Description season.

Brian:
ladies and gentlemen children of all ages. I’m Brian Velazquez from Omnium circus. We would like to welcome you and your family to Reid My Mind Radio!

Now here’s your host Thomas Reid!

TR:
(Energetically)
See, now that’s how you do it baby! Let’s go!

Audio Reid My Mind Theme Music

TR:
It was summer, 2023 and I’m at an event at the Lighthouse in New York city. It was my first time there. I was in conversation with someone when soon after a young gentleman introduced himself to me.

Brian:
My name is Brian Velasquez. I am the Outreach Coordinator, with Omnium a bold new circus.

TR:
He went on to tell me a little about the circus when I quickly realized I not only heard of them but I wanted them on the podcast. They’re a perfect fit.

Omnium not only provides an accessible experience to the children of all ages, but many of the acts include disabled performers.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
Tell me a little bit about how you came to learn about and work with Omnium circus.

Brian:
. Growing up, I used to love going to the circus when I was little. But as with all things I grew out of it. Long and behold I start my first year of college.
I’ve always wanted to be a Braille teacher, that was my mind set since I was around so many Braille teachers growing up.

TR:
Soon after beginning his course work in education, Brian realized he really wasn’t interested in being a teacher. So he moved from the school of education and discovered therapeutic recreation.

Brian:
Continued with that work with geriatrics. Graduated with a degree in therapeutic rec in 2015.

TR:
Soon after, Brian began working at Coney Island Hospital.

— “Where Brooklyn at…” Notorious BIG

Brian:
I implemented a program with the residents where we learned about the loading and unloading of the Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey Circus train. So we watched a video on that we did some threading, we answered questions, we discussed it. And a little sparked started to form.

TR:
It wasn’t the first time Brian used the circus as a way to facilitate therapy in his work.
I don’t think he ever so called “grew out” of his love for the circus. And why should he?

Brian:
Little by little something begins to draw me back.
I come across Lisa Lewis because I look up tickets to go to the Big Apple Circus in New York City.
I saw they needed a volunteer for circus of the senses. I was like why not? It wasn’t gonna affect work. So I connected with Lisa B. Lewis.
And the rest is history.

Lisa:
My name is Lisa Lewis and I am the founder and executive director of Omnium circus. I am five foot tall, I have dark brown hair, relatively pale skin, red glasses. Generally I’m wearing red lipstick. My pronouns are she and her.

TR:
As it turns out, these two, Brian and Lisa actually have a history together.

Lisa:
Brian was eight years old and came to circus of the senses. He loved it. He came every year. I know Brian, I know his classmates, I knew his teachers. We’ve all stayed very good friends.
I just adore Brian. He’s so smart. His insights are so interesting. I’m a big, big, big, big, big Brian fan.

So fast forward a bunch of years. And Brian wanted to come and be a part of the circus.
At that time, I was still with Big Apple. So I said, Why don’t you come Be Our Guest ringmaster for circus of the senses.

TR:
The Big Apple Circus which began in 1977 is a one ring circus mostly residential to New York City. Community involvement and outreach has always been a part of their philosophy.

Circus of the senses was the Big Apple Circus outreach to children with disabilities.

Lisa:
So they would give away tickets to kids with disabilities. And we provided audio description, American Sign Language interpreters. And that really kind of clicked to listen to people to realize their enjoyment to know that these people wanted to love the circus just as much as everybody else wants to love the circus. And a simple access was all that’s needed to be able to include them in this popular entertainment. And they only got it once a season same now with Broadway shows. If you’re deaf and you want to see an interpreted show, you only get one shot at it. To me, that’s just not right. I always thought how, how could we make this so that anybody can come to any show?

TR:
That question would ultimately lead to the creation of Omnium Circus.

Lisa:
I eventually ran the program. I eventually split it off so that we had one show for people for whom the access of audio description and American Sign Language was beneficial and Another one for people with sensory needs, and autism. So we created two different programs.

And then finally, by the time the pandemic had hit, and everybody was kind of sitting around I thought,? could we create a show that not only was accessible to everybody, at any show?

TR:
Looking even further at the make up of the circus, Lisa noticed other disparities.

Lisa:
I live in New York City. This is not a monochromatic place. This is an incredibly diverse and vibrant community. And we thrive for our diversity, because we each have so much to offer.

Could we bring that to the ring? So that was part of what I was thinking, Could we do that?

TR:
Lisa wanted to bring all of that to the ring.

But this was during the pandemic, so Lisa had to use a different approach.

Lisa:
We made a virtual version.

we pull together a group of artists from all over the world from all different abilities to really showcase the beauty of the human spirit. And we collaborated with an organization in New York, called Disability unite. And we created a platform online that would provide for different channels of simultaneous access.

TR:
That included audio description, captions, Spanish language translation…

Lisa:
As a person who signs I got really tired of looking to the side to watch the interpreter and missing all the action. To me, that was annoying and a circus. So I wanted it integrated, I wanted the person who was signing a, to be deaf and b, to make sure that it was integrated and part of the action.

. So you’re still enjoying the same show at the same level. That’s equity. Then we put it out. Let’s just see what happens. And we ended up getting almost 30,000 people watching it in 16 states and five countries.
That gave us the energy to say, Okay, let’s see what we got to do to make this a reality.

TR:
this performance called “A Celebration of Diversity” is still available for purchase on Eventbrite. I’ll link you to it directly on this episode’s blog post at ReidMyMind.com.

TR in conversation with Lisa:
So how big is your organization?

Lisa:
Our whole organization is actually not that big.

Twenty five percent of our performers have disabilities. Forty percent of our overall organization have disabilities. The performers are obviously the largest part of our company.

Outside of performers There are maybe eight of us. Nine. Well, we’re small and mighty.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
What do you do as an outreach coordinator?

Brian:
I reach out to organizations, such as schools, community centers, NFB, ACB

It is a little scary at first, especially reaching out to schools, it’s a little daunting, but I’m starting to getting used to that more. Most people. They’re like, Oh, wow, send me information.

I work remotely.

we all work as a team when it comes to outreach. We have someone that does flyers for us, we have someone that may send a couple of emails for us to help out. So all the work is spread out evenly so we can all work together as a team and do the best we can to get people in seats.

— Music Begins Quarter note hi hat open to a slow bass heavy groove.

TR:
The best way to get people in the seats is to have great performers.

Lisa:
Some of the acts in the show, especially this year are just incredible.

We have a young woman who plays our lead, who is the world’s fastest juggler. Our choreographer and onsite director who also does a crossbow act just set the Guinness Book of World Records, because he shot a crossbow looking into a mirror over his right shoulder 25 feet to hit an apple off the top of his wife’s head.

TR in conversation with Lisa:
Oh my god. How long were they married?

Lisa:
They’re still married!

TR in conversation with Lisa:
I’m gonna ask my wife after this is done.

Lisa & TR Laugh!

Lisa:
We have a dancer who’s a seven time NCAA gymnastics champion, who also is a wheelchair user, who does a beautiful, beautiful acrobatic dance.

We have a gorgeous aerialist, who also came up through the world of gymnastics and does this beautiful aerial silks duet with her husband.

Brian:
It’s done by Miss Chandrika Bower and Dominic Bower. And the husband plays the trombone during part of the act and it is just such a beautiful act. You see the romance? You see the passion.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
He’s in the air playing trombone? Oh my gosh!

Lisa:
It’s just this gorgeous love story. She happened to have been born without legs.

Brian:
We have a female ringmaster. Danette Shepard Vaughan. African American. She is phenomenal.

Lisa:
She’s got this gorgeous, Jazzy singing voice and her partner. We call the character of the poet who is a full dancer. He is death and he performs the entire show in ASL.

Brian:
And we have another act that I like is the King Charles troupe?
I don’t know if you’re familiar with them?

TR in Conversation with Brian:
Wait, are they on the unicycles?

Brian:
Yes, they are.

TR
I remember seeing this talented group who perform these amazing basketball acrobatic stunts on unicycles. I first saw them when my oldest daughter was only about two or three. They performed with the UniverSoul Circus. We went at least twice. During one performance, I actually got picked from the audience to go into the ring and dance with ReRun from the show What’s Happening. You know, Roger, Dee, Dwayne? Shirley from the diner?

— Transition – Theme music from “What’s Happening”

TR in conversation with Lisa:
I’m really curious. How do you go about finding these acts?

Lisa:
We have the world’s most amazing artistic director. His name is Noe Espana. He has sixth generation fifth generation circus. His wife is sixth or seventh sixth generation circus. His kids are now Seventh Generation circus. And they know everybody, Noe finds our acts. He creates the shows. He writes the shows. He puts everything together. He is a creative genius. Wow. Okay. And we take applications, although, in all fairness, you gotta be good. (Laughs) Be really good. Noe’s picky.

TR in Conversation with Lisa:
Yeh, so you’re getting people walking in off the street like “Hey, I want to apply for the circus?”

TR:
Duh! I know that’s not the case.
Obviously circus performers require a lot of skill that come from years of practice and experience. Many begin perfecting their acts from childhood.

Lisa’s love for the circus also began as a child, but it wasn’t until she attended college where she came across the opportunity to get involved.

Lisa:
One of my roommates was trying to teach me how to juggle. I was a miserable failure. But I was in the theater department and Ringling Brothers had just posted an audition for clown College.

She goes, Why don’t you go try out this audition, at least maybe you’ll learn to juggle. So I went to the audition. And I fell in love.
I felt like yes, this is where I belong.
I was one of 50 students out of a pool of over 2000 [that were accepted that particular year.]
And in 1986, I went to Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey circus clown College, and my journey began.

TR:
In addition to clown college, Lisa did finish her degree and went on to get a Masters in Circus history.

Lisa:
Circus is an art form and always has been an art form. That can include so many people, because it’s not a language based art form. It’s not an intellect based art form. It’s a heart. It’s a feeling. It’s a visceral enjoyment. And so it can bring all kinds of communities together, and has been since the beginning of time.

TR:
That ability to bring people together made it an effective way to impact society.

(Lisa:
the electric light bulb was introduced in a circus, because everyone was afraid of it. So the circus was the first to light with electric light bulbs to show everyone that that was okay.

Barnum introduced the horseless carriage in a circus. Cars started becoming popular. So it’s a really wonderful way of reaching large groups of people.

I love it for its ability to include. I love it for its ability to entertain. I love it for its ability to showcase the best of the best. It’s like watching the Olympics. You see the best of the best people who’ve spent their lives for generations dedicated to learning a specific art form and you see what amazing things the human body can accomplish all bodies, any shapes, any sizes, anything. The amazing accomplishments of the human spirit.

TR in conversation with Lisa:
What’s the relationship between freak shows and circus?
Lisa 50
I’m actually really glad you asked that question.

So back in time, humanity was a lot less advanced. There were different water fountains, there were different bathrooms. We weren’t real nice to each other, to say the least,
And one of those not very nice things. Concerned persons with disabilities. They were thrown in institutions, they were drowned. They were killed. They were hidden away. They were not given respect as individuals.

TR
As awful as that sounds, Lisa points out a very real and practical side.

Lisa:
So the freak show, quote, unquote, at that time, provided viable employment when people couldn’t get jobs. No one would hire you if you had a disability. The Circus provided employment, you could buy a house you could raise your family, they had a life they had a community to become involved with.
the circus created a very positive space within a very negative paradigm.
So we’re reclaiming the paradigm, but not showing people because of what makes them different than 75% of the world. But what makes them unique and special and their incredible talent and artistry to lift them up. So that the world can see that we all are people and inside each one of us is a beautiful gift, regardless of the body to which you are born or the skin you are in.

TR:
Lisa went on to work for Ringling Brothers, freelanced as a clown and ended up working in the Clown Care Unit, an outreach program of the Big Apple Circus.
Clown Care Clown Doctors are specially selected professional performers who are trained to work in the sensitive hospital environment. Using minimal make-up, evocative costumes, juggling, comedy, magic and music these “clown doctors” help ease the stress of illness and aid in a patients’ healing.
In pairs they make “ Clown Rounds” visiting children throughout the hospital from bedside to all sorts of patient encounters.

Meet Lisa’s former clown doctor partner, Liz Bolick.

Liz:
I go by she her hers pronouns. I am six feet tall, with reddish brown hair to my shoulders a little bit curly. I have an oval face, I’m a Caucasian woman kind of shapely.

Liz:
I had worked with the Big Apple Circus for many, many years in New York City as a performer, and as a clown doctor in the clown care unit, working with their specialty programs with hospital clowning. And then I started doing pre show for the circus of the senses,.

Lisa Lewis approached me and asked me if I’d be interested in being an audio describer. I said, Sure. That sounds cool. How do you do that?

TR in conversation with Liz:
Oh my goodness.
I used to go to New York Hospital. On the east side?
I used to love the clowns. I used to have such a good time.

Liz

How old were you?

TR in Conversation with Liz:
I was a grown ass man.
The clowns and I would connect because I’m hysterical. And they’re like this is the only person who really seems to be enjoying this.

Liz:
I was at New York Hospital. for 20 years doing it at New York Hospital, Columbia Presbyterian. Then I went out to Einstein in the Bronx. Your doctor sneakers, that was me.

TR in conversation with Liz:
Wow. Okay.

Liz 24
you probably saw me play. Crazy high top sneakers on. That’s how kids remembered me buy my shoes
TR in conversation with Liz:
I would look forward to go just to see the clowns.

Liz:
Well, it makes me happy that we made a difference in that in those moments for you. Right.

TR in conversation with Liz:
Absolutely.
I think for other parents, it was just a little levity.
It was really nice.

Liz:
Great for the staff to sometimes a little joy. It just breaks people out of their sorrow or their stress for five seconds. Yeah. And it makes a difference. And so I’m blessed to have done it.

TR:
To continue providing access to joy, Lisa signed Liz up for a two week audio description course at the Theater Development Fund.

In addition to AD training, TDF offers Accessibility Programs that provide a membership service for theatregoers with disabilities that require some form of access including wheelchair seating, captions, ASL and audio description. You can check them out at TDF.org.

Liz:
I found it fascinating. And then one day, she said, Alright, jump in. I said You mean today.

TR:
Just like making clown doctor rounds, at Omnium, audio description is done in pairs.

Liz was paired with Carl Anthony Tramon.

(Liz:
I was absolutely nervous. But she had Carl there as the audio describer, who is brilliant and has done this for years and years and years. And she said, just jump in and work with Carl.

it was one of the best things I ever did.

I remember sitting next to Carl, and I was sweating. I was so scared. And I turned to Carl and I said, Do you have any advice for me, and he turned to me with this big smile on his face and said, just talk like it’s a conversation. So imagine we’re kids seeing the circus for the first time. And let’s describe what we see and have fun.

I had this great experience. And I got to work with a master. Of course. Generally, you don’t get to work as a team. But I think I was extremely lucky that not only did I get placed with a partner, my first experience, but Carl Tramon, was that partner.

TR:
Unfortunately, Carl was not available for this interview but brother, if you’re listening,
I’m extending an open invitation to you to come on the podcast
and share your experience with audio description.

Although Liz was new to AD, the skills she gained as a clown doctor were perfect for describing a live circus.
Liz:
It makes you very present. And you have to be in the moment. And there’s nothing more in the moment than audio description,

You really have to be aware of what’s happening right in that second.

TR:
Being prepared to respond quickly to something unexpected is crucial in live description. However, there’s still a lot of preparation that goes into the role.

Liz:
I’m somebody that likes a lot of rehearsal and likes to feel really prepared. So I’m usually over prepared.

I get to know the individual acts, I like to look up their websites know what skills they’re doing, what’s a history of their family? How do you pronounce their name? If they’re doing a Diablo act? What’s the history of that Diablo? That’s a Chinese yo, yo, what are the terms for it? I’ll watch YouTube videos of how to do Diablo and it’ll give me all these terms.

TR:
Those unfamiliar with the process of AD are surprised by the amount of research and preparation required to write effective description. Even when it appears to be spontaneous.

And of course, whenever possible, go to the source.

Liz:
I like to speak to the artists directly if I can.

I’m lucky because I’ve been part of circus for so many years that I understand a lot of the acts.

What is the seer real? What is the Hulu back? What are the aerialists? What’s a tight rope? What’s a high wire? I know a lot of what these acts are, but describing them to someone who’s never seen them was the trick. So I needed to increase my vocabulary, but also make it down to earth simplistic and really describe what the actual physical movements of the body and the person are not necessarily technical terms.

So it’s like preparing for a role in the theater and then you have to throw it away and be in the moment.

TR:
Liz, who is also a costume designer and producer, brings all of that plus her extensive knowledge and experience as a circus performer to AD. The combination of her and Carl who she says is great at describing the technical enables her to sprinkle interesting facts about other details.

Liz:
So I can talk about the sparkling outfits and what they’re made of, I can talk about the Top Hats and the colors of the lights changing from a design point of view, a costume point of view, and you don’t always have time for all of that. So I also do a big prep, I also have quite a bit of pre show available that I rewrite in advance, so that if kids come 15 minutes early, and if technically have time in the theater, I can give a lot of background on each and every act, or the biggest moments, including costumes and descriptions of the people in the show that you may not have time for in the moment. Because circus happens really fast.

TR:
This sounds like the approach heard in sports. Play by play commentator paired with another who provides interesting facts and adds color to the broadcast.

Liz:
For me, it’s the essence of what’s happening emotionally, for the audience, because it helps bring them into the moment of the danger of the excitement and the anticipation of the moment that maybe they’re going to miss or maybe they’re going to make it. Now those things I think innately are in the timing and the tenor of my voice. I think it makes a better show.

I’ll go like (Starts in a whisper and moves to louder more excited voice) “And now, walking up the thing, and the thing and they turn and they flip and they go!”

TR in conversation with Liz:
And that’s such a big difference from standard audio description for a film or a Broadway production. Have you ever done any of those?

Liz:
I’m starting to really

TR in conversation with Liz:
Okay, So what’s the difference like for you? Because it’s less emoting.

Liz:
First, that was shocking. I couldn’t even speak. Like, I’m sitting there, I say, and he moves on, and the lights come up, and then they talked for like, 30 minutes. It was so weird for me. I’m used to talking non stop because you can’t talk over the dialog, right.
So then you kind of have to follow a script. But if I’m following a script, I’m not in the moment as much.

TR:
Being in the moment never replaces the need for preparation.

Liz:
I would watch the videos over and over and over again, if I get my hands on them. I go to a dress rehearsal , and then I’ll go to a show. So there’s a ton of prep.

TR:
This is a public service announcement!

If we do the math and calculate the hourly rate based on the actual amount of time put into preparing and describing live theater, well, let’s just say this group is highly under paid.

Automation and artificial intelligence isn’t the way to resolve that rather it’s changing the way we think about access.

That concludes our public service announcement.

Liz:
I would try to talk to the producers in the playwrights and the actors, I still like to ask an actor how they want to be called.
How do they want to be described not necessarily how I would see them.

Different people from all races and cultures want to be described differently.

TR in conversation with Liz:
Is it easier within the circus to get access then in Broadway or Off Broadway plays?

Liz:
It’s easier for me in the circus because generally like Omnium I’ve been with them for so many years. I know a lot of people, these are my friends. I’m doing one show for a whole season.

TR:
Outside of Omnium, Liz doesn’t always have the opportunity or permission to directly speak with the performers. But, Liz is spunky, she was a clown after all!

Liz:
I’ll just show up grab people. While they’re offstage, I’ll just show up and work my way and being sweet and funny. That always works. Kindness goes a long way. I think most people feel happy that you’re asking.

TR in conversation with Liz:
It’s a combination of probably parents and children. Who are you describing for in your mind?

Liz:
More like family audiences. I think the good thing about the circus is that anyone in that room feels like they’re five years old. First of all, but you can’t talk down to people and especially children, like children are a lot smarter and hipper than anything. So even when I’m working with a two year old, I’m not treating them like a baby.
Fun and energetic but not too super technical.

TR in conversation with Liz:
do you have any favorite acts that stick out to you that you really like to describe?

Liz:
Well, I love to describe the clown acts, because I’m a clown myself. So I love to describe the comic timing.

I like to add narrative to a silent comedy routine. is really fun because I’m a silent comedian, physical comedian.

TR in conversation with Liz:
What type of things are you describing?

Liz:
Well, like their first facial expressions, like if you have a comedy team, like we have dick and Tiffany, Monday and Riley in the show, I’ve known them their whole lives. So like, take a look over at her she’ll kind of flip her head. And it’d be like, she’s not super happy. He better watch out. She’s gonna smack him on. Oops, she did. She smacked him on the butt.

Liz:
there’s like silly beats that happened.

TR:
With two describers, Liz and Carl can bounce off one another to really bring out the emotion of what’s taking place visually.

Liz:
He’ll be like, Oh, no, he didn’t. And I go, Oh, yes, he did. Like, well, we get into like a comedy routine about it. We’ll do it together.

We have a pretty good trading off back and forth repartee that goes on, and just happens naturally.
And we’re lucky because we can both improvise really? Well. He’s a great actor, singer, dancer, Director. So we’re both good at improvising. And I think we’re both aware of each other’s strengths, I would say. Plus, we would do the same show over and over, especially at the very beginning, we did the same show, like for an entire season. So then you have your rhythm and beats and we’re kind of rehearsed in a way we kind of go oh, we kind of know each other’s parts a little bit. That’s

TR in conversation with Liz:
That’s like a show within the show.

TR:
The circus is about two hours with a 15 minute intermission. I can imagine it really helps to have multiple describers working together.

Omnium also offers one hour special events for schools. Exposing even more children to the joys of the circus.

In fact, during some of the special events, some of these children may not realize it, but the ring master was once in their seat.

Brian:
. Ladies and gentleman now.
Um, woof. My neighbors are probably like, What the heck is he doing?

I’ve been really learning about circus.

The ring masters used to use these booming voices because back in the day, there was no microphones.
There was a term called Barker.

Hurry, hurry, hurry, step right up, step right up. Hurry, hurry. Not sure if it was the same concept as the ringmaster. But it was kind of similar, but then the ringmaster wouldn’t have a mic neither. So they would have to project their voice and otherwise, you wouldn’t hear anything.

So that’s why there’s been a tradition of keeping the voice, they had to use those big, loud heavy duty. Voice commands.

TR:
That’s right, Brian has served as ring master during some of these events, which sometimes offer open audio description.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
So while you ring mastering Do you listen to it as well.

Brian:
Oh, my goodness, good question.
I was able to follow through with the audio description cues. That helped me a lot immensely when it came to, you know, okay. It’s time for me to say this, or Okay, I’m gonna do this now.

TR:
It’s always important to remind folks that access is not just about consumption. Disabled folks are not only participants, but we are makers of art, content, technology, accessibility and more. Removing this perspective of the conversation continues to leave us out of all sorts of spaces.

So what other access is available at Omnium?

Brian:
we have open ASL in the show. You’re gonna see everything that’s said in the show. What the ringmaster is saying everything. What the Ringmasters singing all that you you’ll be able to see it because there is live open ASL interpretation at the show.

sensory friendly, very important. For those who are neurodiverse who may be sensitive to sound or light. The house lights are not completely off. And the sound decibels
at a decibel where it’s suitable for everyone.

We have a common area with little activities you can do like markers or drawing
you’re gonna have your few people that may be a little overwhelmed that need a break. And that’s okay.

TR:
Of course that includes wheel chair access and closed captions wherever possible.
Brian
we want it to be as inclusive as possible for all, that’s why we are America’s first comprehensively inclusive circus.

TR:
Big shout out to Brian Velasquez, Lisa Lewis and Liz Bolick, you’re each official members of the Reid My Mind Radio Family.

I don’t care who you are, if you’re hearing or reading this episode, Omnium is for you. Take your children, grand children, students, athletes … you can always take me, I’m a forever five year old.

Honestly, I wanted to get out to see them when they were in New York this year but unfortunately scheduling didn’t workout. But I will get there and hope you do the same.

For the current schedule and links to social media visit OmniumCircus.org.

Another Public service announcement If you’re not registered to vote, please do so.
We’re in some serious times and I hope and encourage you all to get out there and vote. In person or absentee mail in, I really don’t care, just make it happen.

I appreciate you rocking with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.

It’s come to my attention that some don’t think I spell it enough… seriously!
You got to spell it right, that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)

Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript