Reid My Mind

TR:
Hey Y’all.

I try to produce this podcast several weeks in advance of the release. I don’t always have as much lead time as I’d like.
In this particular case, I did.

With the latest police murder of George Floyd and the world wide protest that followed, I don’t feel comfortable releasing an episode without acknowledging this senseless and shameful killing.

I love producing this podcast and I truly think what you’re about to hear is a great episode,
but as a Black man I can’t help but feel like my focus should be on fighting for change. Truth is though, it’s not just Black people who should be fighting.
It’s all of our responsibility and if I’m being honest, I think the burden should be less on the Black community.
If you have the urge to inform me that there are white people fighting, please don’t. I know that. I’d ask you to consider your own role as I’m trying to figure out mine.

Not acknowledging the pain just felt like it would add even more.

Rest in Peace & Power to Mr. George Floyd and the rest of those murdered by the Police.

Thank you Reid My Mind Radio Family and I hope you understand why that was necessary.

Now, let’s shift gears and get into what I think is a goodie!

Audio: Sounds of airport fades into the inside of a plane.

From the planes PA System…
Flight Attendant:

Good day passengers.
Welcome aboard flight 99 to a better place!

Inflight service will be coming around soon with snacks!
In the meantime, please sit back, relax and enjoy your trip.
We now have a message from the captain.

From the planes PA System:

Music begins…

TR:

What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Welcome aboard the podcast bringing you compelling people impacted by all degrees of vision loss from low vision to total blindness.

Every now and then, when inspired, I bring you stories from my own experience as a man adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult.

My name is Thomas Reid and I’m not only your pilot, but I’m traveling on this journey with you.

Now if you are new to blindness and have some reservations about this flight I can tell you the ground control has approved us for takeoff. the forecasts a mix of clear skies with some possible thunderstorms. We are expected to hit a bit of turbulence along the way, but don’t worry, I got you!

Wheels up baby, let’s go!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:

In 2017 & 18 , this podcast featured profiles of each of the Holman Prize winners. If you haven’t checked out those episodes I definitely want to encourage you to go back and give them a listen.

While I decided not to produce Holman prize episodes in 2019, early this year, I came across one of the 2019 winners, Dr. Mona Minkara. She’s a Bio Engineering professor at North Eastern University and the host and producer of Planes, Trains and Canes.

MM:

Which is a documentary series on YouTube showing me traveling to five different cities around the world and using only public transportation on my own.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

So the first show that I started to watch, that was your first one when you were headed out of Boston to and going to South Africa. I’m trying to figure out, what is this feeling that I have. I said wow, I think this is a little anxiety. I’m like wow, this is good though, this is really good.

My podcast, I really like to reach out to those who are adjusting to being Blind. That’s my target audience. And so I’m thinking they’re going to feel what I feel but for different reasons. I travel independently, not necessarily like you’re doing. I’m watching because I thought about doing some of the things you’re doing where you’re walking through an airport and not getting the guide and I’m like wow this is exactly how I thought I would do it but I wasn’t sure if there was a different way. People who are new to blindness need to see it because I think some of the stuff like the constant questioning that you’re doing, the constant asking and figuring it out, people need to know that that is ok. And I love that!
So that’s why I contacted you.

MM:

That so awesome to hear you say that, so awesome because I’m going to be honest with you, I feel like this project actually even pushed me even more than I normally push myself. I would have never risked on my own a two hour layover in Atlanta going by myself to the gate. I would have never risked that on my own. But I did for the sake of this project. Like uh, we’ll see what happens.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Oh my god, I’m so glad you said that because people need to know that. people definitely need to know that

MM:

I completely agree. And then what’s the worst thing that could happen. I think what’s really important to discuss with something like this is being flexible. I was willing and ok and at peace with getting lost. I told myself Mona it’s ok if I get lost, it’s ok if it takes me like three hours … it’s ok!

[TR in conversation with MM:]

The other thing that I like about what you’re doing and we’re going to get in to the questions in just a second but…

TR:

Ok, fine, I was excited! I don’t usually include me geeking out over my guests but it definitely happens.
I knew this would be a comfortable conversation from the start.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

How are you doing Mona?

MM:

Good, how are you Thomas?

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Good, I’m good. Do you prefer Dr. Minkara? My bad.

MM:

No, no not at all. I’ve been told I probably should but no!

TR:

I’m not really into formalities, but I realize she earned that PHD and. When she’s on that campus, at those conferences put some respect on her name! Especially considering the early advice given to her mother when learning Mona would be Blind.

MM:

I had a doctor tell my mom that it wasn’t going to be worth spending a penny on my education. The bright future that I had was over with that sentence. But it wasn’t. (laughs) My life is great! (Laughs)

TR:

From an early age, Mona was interested in pursuing science and knew she wanted to be a professor.

Audio: Magic School Bus/Bill Nye

MM:

even though a lot of times I got people discouraging me because it wasn’t very practical for a Blind person to be a scientist.
I’m probably a scientist because of Magic School Bus and Bill Nye the Science Guy.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Shout out to Bill Nye!

MM:

Yes! I am a PBS Kid!

Audio: PBS Kid

I think a part of who I am is I truly just follow my passion and I really value freedom and independence. That kind of carried over to Planes Trains & Canes because it was the ultimate test of my independence to allow me to have my freedom.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

What came first, was it the Holman prize or was this a dream to kind of do this?

MM:

That’s as good question a very good question. I was a judge for the first year of Holman Prize. I remember going out there and helping to judge the applicant pool and being taken by this concept. Even the story of James Holman and why these people were applying.

TR:

James Holman AKA, the Blind traveler, completed a series of solo journeys taking him to all inhabited continents.
The competition is sponsored by the San Francisco Lighthouse. $25,000
is given to each of the winners who are all legally blind and in their own way exhibit the adventurous spirit and attitude of James Holman

Following that first year, Mona had a thought.

MM:

I’d like to apply one day. What is it that I like to do? I realized, I really love public transportation.

Public transportation is a tool that is under appreciated by a lot of people but it’s a tool for me that really gives me freedom.

TR:

Currently living in Boston, the third city where she’s lived on her own as an adult. Each of these cities having a completely different public transportation system.

MM:

And then it just clicked, the concept for Planes Trains and Canes. Traveling on my own using public transportation.

TR:

In addition, she sought out cities on different continents which meant diverse cultures.

MM:

I didn’t have a deeply scientific method other than I also wanted to go to cities that I didn’t speak the language. It’s another barrier right. You feel like you might be more lost in an non English speaking place.
It was fascinating, you can see in my upcoming episode for Istanbul, you don’t really need the language. It was mind blowing for me to realize how easy it was to still navigate in a city like Istanbul or Tokyo.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Laughs… It’s funny to hear the Scientist say that there was no scientific method about… (Laughing)

MM:

Laughs… I mean I knew London
[TR in conversation with MM:]

From the videos, it doesn’t seem like you spend that much time there. How much time do you spend in each place?

MM:

It was like four days.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

To go all the way to South Africa for 4 days is like damn!

MM:

I know, I had to squeeze them with my new job it was insane. I just started being a professor.

TR:

In addition to Istanbul & Tokyo that’s four days in Johannesburg, South Africa, London and Singapore.
While Planes Trains & Canes is all about independent travel, making the videos requires a team.

MM:

I remember thinking like 3 years ago that whoever I did this with I have to have a Videographer that was somebody I could easily travel with , a solid person. And somebody who’s really not going to break character.

NG:
Hello

[TR in conversation with NG:]

Hello Natalie?

NG:

Hi, Thomas, how are you?

[TR in conversation with NG:]

Good, how are you doing?

NG:

Good!

TR:

During my initial conversation with Mona, she suggested I speak to her entire team. And I did. First up Natalie Guzi.

NG:

I’m a Camera Woman for Planes Trains & Canes. I’m 23 and this was my first time doing anything camera work related.

[TR in conversation with NG:]

That was one of my first questions. (Laughs)

NG:

(Laughs)
Cool, ok!

[TR in conversation with NG:]

From my understanding you were a friend or a co-worker of Mona’s?

NG:

Co-worker turned really good friend

So, I went to school to be a technical writing major and I saw an open position. One of those pull tabs job posts with a number and email. Mona had put up signs for that. the interview went well I guess. Laughs…

TR:
In a way, working as an Access Assistant for Mona, helped Natalie develop one of the most important skills for the videographer role in Planes Trains & Canes.

[TR in conversation with NG:]

You ask any Blind person and they’re pretty much going to have a similar experience about being with someone who is sighted going somewhere and then having the person who is sighted being talked to as if the Blind person wasn’t there. When did you first experience that ?

NG:

The first time I experienced that was at a Chemistry conference, like an international conference where I was Mona’s access assistant. it must have been like just checking into a hotel. it’s under Mona’s name, Mona’s the PhD Scientist, I’m the 23 year old, but the person checking her in was looking at me.

TR:
This experience isn’t exclusive to those who are Blind. I hear the same from others with different disabilities too. There’s two components; first, directing the conversation away from the person with a disability and then there’s the gaze. Focusing the eye contact towards the non-disabled person.
Now, check the technique!

Audio: Musical intro…

NG:

How we work together with that kind of an issue is that I would just make eye contact with Mona so if you’re trying to look at me my gaze, then that’s going to get redirected to her. So they know where I’m looking and they should be looking. Sometimes people would pick up that and make that adjustment. Sometimes not. Or if we were talking and there was no counter between us then I would almost step over to their side so I was also facing Mona.

TR:

As the videographer, Natalie has to make sure it remains about Mona.

NG:

I tried to be as fly on the wall as possible. (Laughs) Which is a little bit hard. It wasn’t like an undercover operation. (Laughs) It was like someone following a blind woman with a camera. There were a lot of like stares and or questions about why the camera. people addressing me that I shouldn’t film even though Mona was the subject.

[TR in conversation with NG:]

They didn’t know that she was a part of it they thought you were just following her or something?

NG:

Yeh. They would like wave their hand in front of the camera.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

And then you would have to explain things?

NG:

It depended on the situation. That’s a great question too. I’m remembering a time when at a train station in Johannesburg. I was trying to capture footage of Mona buying her train ticket. One of the staff there came up and told me I couldn’t be filming although all I really wanted to do was film the interaction of Mona buying a ticket. No, no, like here’s the business card we’re filming a documentary. We’re not mapping out your train system for any weird purpose.

[TR in conversation with NG:]

That seems stressful to me. Can you talk about that.

NG:

Sure. By nature I lean towards wanting to make people happy and feel comfortable and welcomed. And when you’re walking around with a camera and people don’t know why that’s not really a possibility.
It’s difficult having those eyes and feeling those emotions from other people coming your way and having to remind yourself of the situation and the mission in that moment.

[TR in conversation with NG:]

Did that get easier?

NG:

We had the opportunity to go to lots of different countries and experience different cultures so it shifted every place that we went. Like people would in Istanbul, being like welcome and we love it and come to our store as we were walking by trying to get video.
In comparison, the experience in the London tube wasn’t as welcoming.

TR:

These are the things making Natalie the right person for the job.

NG:

A thick skin. You got to have that self-confidence and confidence in the mission and in the team too.
I think Mona and I’s relationship we just always have each other’s back. So I think that trust and that collaboration really was like the heart of the whole project that kept us going.

TR:

That trust could even mean stepping in and putting yourself at risk.

NG:

In Johannesburg, Mona was crossing the street and this car was taking a corner really fast. I had to jump into the street and like put my arms out. I just thought that car was going way too fast. I wanted them to see two people in the street at least like saying stop.

TR:

Mona and Natalie have the foundation making up a real team.

NG:

We kind of work together. She gave me the feedback on what worked in different situations. It was nice to have a collaborator with that too and just follow Mona’s lead.

TR:

After watching Planes Trains & Canes and then having the chance to speak with Mona, it’s apparent, what you see is what you get.

MM:

I’m pretty assertive I would say as a person, but I understand not everybody has that personality. When I’m tired and exhausted and getting off a 16 hour flight I’m not the sharpest. I’m just like excuse me (said lethargically) my energy’s low. I could be ignored more easily in that situation verses when I’m bright eyed and bushy tailed , I’m like hello!

[TR in conversation with MM:]

You’re quick not to give off any pity vibe or anything like that.

MM:

Yeh, cause I don’t want your pity. I want you to treat me like any other human being. I just happened to be Blind. Sighted people ask for directions all the time. All the time! Just adjust yourself , just a little bit by verbalizing your directions. I appreciate it, thank you!

Audio Bumper for editors

TR:

In order to win the prize enabling Mona to start her adventure she would have to first accumulate enough likes on her Holman prize entry video.

Contestant’s seeking the 25 G’s must first posts their videos to YouTube. The videos need to explain their ambition and cannot exceed 90 seconds. Mona and Natalie paired up to shoot the video with Natalie taking her first shot at editing. The video foreshadowed some of the reactions they’d eventually receive while traveling.
Audio: Clip Planes Trains & Canes Ambition Video

TR:

Winning the prize enabled them to purchase a camera and wireless
microphone.

Natalie and Mona learned more than expected from editing that first 90 second ambition video;

MM:

How much work editing would be.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Chuckles…

TR:

Mona recruited Anxhela (Angela) Becolli
, her current Access Assistant at Northeastern.

MM:

She actually was the one who edited Johannesburg. She’s actually with me right now and…. Ok, I’m bringing her in…

AB:

I wasn’t expecting to be on the call…

[TR in conversation with AB:]

So that was your first shot at editing?

AB:

I had done editing a little bit before. In college I studied Photography in China and there I had done a few projects in videography but mainly photography. This was my first full paid project.

TR:

The thing about creating a documentary series such as Planes Trains & Canes is that you don’t know what your story is until it happens.

MM:

We recorded with no story line in mind. Recording as life unfolds in front of you and then extracting the story. So there’s an element of being able to story tell what you lived as opposed to the other way around – you are building the story and then you record the story.

You don’t know what life is going to give you.

As I was living it I remember taking mental notes like oh my God this would be really interesting to share with the audience.

TR:

Construction takes place in the editing room.

AB:

The main part is the story part. When Mona and Natalie give me the videos they also gave me this list of what they wanted the story to look like. What there idea was and what they wanted to portray to the viewers. What the most important parts were. What parts were light hearted. What parts were very specific to being Blind, to traveling and what needed to be kept in no matter what quality the video or audio was.

TR:

Mona is clearly directing all aspects of this project.

MM:

This part needs to be sped up and it’s kind of boring. I think we should add more of this part. I would say ok, let’s find music that represents the fact that I was feeling fearful or excited. I only used music connected to whatever city I was in. So all the music in the Johannesburg episode in part two, is from musicians from Johannesburg.

I personally have a certain vision for the vive and what was happening and Angela would work with me and hear what I have to say and implement it.

TR:

Creating content like this means investing real time.

AB:

If you have 40 hours of video you’re taking about 60 hours to watch the videos because you’re going to make notes, you’re going to cut things and you’ll re-watch those.

TR:

Angela was already committed to other projects so Mona had to find another editor.

Ted:

I’m Ted Jimenez, I’m the second editor put on the team to work on the new episodes; London, Istanbul, Singapore and Tokyo.

I am a self-taught editor. I worked with small independent studios before back in my home the Philippines I worked for States Sessions. It was a company that put on productions for Indy musicians in the Philippines. I did music videos for them. Promotional videos for them. Now I’m in Boston.

TR:

Where he too works at Northeastern making psychological self-help videos.

Mona decided early on that Planes Trains & Canes would not be a narrated style documentary.

Ted:

This is where Mona and I have conflicting views. I was going in with like my script saying oh Mona could you narrate this portion for us. And she is more of a fan of in the moment. I’m not going to pre-record a script that tells a story I’d rather the audience live through the story because it tells the Blind experience more naturally than if it was just said by her.

TR:

Show, not tell!

Mona’s voice over narrations that you hear in the series are sort of a means of accentuating specific moments.

Ted:

And it’s also to make it lighthearted.

MM:

I wanted comedy to be a main element. I want people to laugh while watching this because I want my message to really be heard and it’s going to be heard more through a comedic tone than through a lecturing serious tone.

TR:

Lighthearted may be the goal, but come on traveling Blind just like living Blind, you will have some encounters.

Audio: London…

[TR in conversation with MM:]

So you know where I’m going now. We’re going to London! You know the episode. (Laugh fades out) you were told that you had to register.

MM:

Yeh, yeh, yeh! I had no choice.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

So my anxiety woo, went through the roof! Mona, I’m going to tell you, I’m not that good at that situation. I’m from the Bronx Mona, I get a little aggressive. Ok! (Laugh fades out)

MM:

Laughing…

Dude, I’m going to tell you honestly, I held myself together because I didn’t even know if Natalie was videotaping me or not. But just in case she was I was like I need to make this point clear.

TR:

That point is at the core of this project; independence and freedom.

Ted:

I really like London as an example about how we kind of tell that story.

First, Mona getting off the plane into the subway. We foreshadow that Mona likes the choice of being able to ask for assistance or not ask for assistance.

In the second section of London where she’s coming from the airport to the Metro, that’s when we see that whole belief that she has of accepting or not accepting assistance.

TR:

You’re going to have to head on over to YouTube and check out the series to find out more.

Audio: Next time on Planes Trains & Canes…

TR:

Planes Trains & Canes is all about perspective.

It’s filmed from the perspective of a woman who is Blind and enjoys traveling independently and values her choice.

Along the way she interacts with people who may view the world differently.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Wait up. You said he was nice?

MM:

I’m saying he was nice yes. (Laughing)

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Did you feel that way in the beginning? From the video, I took this guy like he was being condescending.

MM:

Oh, he was totally being condescending. I think it’s just the norm there to kind of treat people with disabilities like we are a bunch of 5 year olds. An underlying patronizing vibe!

TR:

As we each bring our individual perspective to the series, chances are there will be opposing points of view.

MM:

Did you see some of the comments that were on YouTube. Let me tell you. There was this one person who goes by SocietySister she wrote that I was selfish for not accepting help.

TR:

probably the same type of person to find the inclusion of Audio Description as a default in the series videos to be selfish.

MM:

I really wanted to make every video we create accessible to both Blind and Deaf individuals.

TR:

That’s a pretty inclusive approach giving a variety of viewers a chance to benefit from Mona’s experiences.

What did the production team take away from this experience? First, Natalie.

NG:

People are people wherever you go. They’re curious, they’ll probably want to know what’s going on if you walk into a new situation. maybe concerned if they see something new if they see something different. No matter where you go people do want to understand and to and connect. Also, trust and partnership with Mona . Just a profound sense of gratitude for working together for collaborating for trusting me to capture her experience and to be an observer.

TR:

Angela, who edited the first two episodes from Johannesburg, had hours of video to review. This gave her the chance to really see what Mona experiences.

AB:

I had a lot of moments where I went what I can’t, what why I can’t believe someone would do that. I can’t believe someone would say that. Why would someone treat you like that. Mona mentioned that Natalie was able to keep her calm, I’m the kind of person that would be like no what are you doing, you can’t do that. You can’t treat someone like that. Yeh, I’m not someone that would be able to keep her cool. (Laughs)

[TR in conversation with AB:]

Laughs.

TR:

I could see Angela and I teaming up in some bar fights together.

Ted, the editor of the remaining episodes, it should be noted is not only editing, but he’s doing all the Audio description and captioning. As someone making a career as an editor I had to ask him if he’d become a proponent for Audio Description.

[TR in conversation with Ted:]

You’re working with, I don’t know Steven Spielberg. You’re like Steven we got to put some Audio Description on this man… (Laughs)

Ted:

Laughing… Hey Steven! (Said in a serious tone)

Oh yes of course. Right now it’s normalized for me to kind of like say well what are the options for everybody if I’m viewing piece of media. Mona has made it specifically clear that the deadlines are the deadlines for everything. The captioning, the Audio Description. The video, It needs to be accessible to everyone.

TR:

Planes Trains & Canes was Mona’s way to not only highlight the benefits that public transportation affords her, but also show the ingenuity and abilities of those who are Blind.

Mona’s travels reveal lots of valuable lessons for those adjusting to blindness.

MM:

Even though I am 32 years old, I feel like I am more at peace with it then I have ever been. I don’t know if I want to share this with the world but yeh (laughing…)

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Well, let me just say something to you right now Again, it’s totally, totally fine if you don’t want to share.

MM:

Yeh!

[TR in conversation with MM:]

But that right there, again, think about it from the person who’s adjusting.

MM:

Yeh! No, I think it’s good I’ll explain why I say this.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

yeh!

MM:

I thought I was at peace. I used to take comments of you look sighted as compliments. I realize the detriment of that, only until like last year. Why should that be a compliment, you know? And I realized that I had built up all these techniques to almost compensate for blindness as opposed to work with it.

I had internalized this concept of blindness as weakness. I think it’s really important for Blind people to realize, we are inherently better problem solvers because we have to work around a lot of things. Blindness is not weakness. And to truly believe that I don’t know if I’m a hundred percent there.

TR:

I so respect and appreciate that honesty. It’s what I personally believe, adjusting to blindness is a continuous process. And if that’s ok for this Bio Engineer professor, well, I’m just saying, she’s doing something right.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

What have you taken away from this whole experience?

MM:

I think I pushed myself more than I would have for the sake of the videos. I learned that there’s a lot of good out there and there’s a lot of like negatives that we need to fix and that’s ok.

I don’t know how to explain this feeling. it’s almost an internal shift where I want to go to Mongolia, I can go to Mongolia. Where maybe before I’d be like well I really don’t know how I would go to Mongolia. I need to find somebody to go with me or whatever. And now it’s like this state of mind. If I want to go I can go!

[TR in conversation with MM:]

It sounds like, like you’re free.

MM:

Exactly! Exactly I obtained more freedom than I ever thought I could. And I think I have more freedom than the average person gets to mentally experience and what a privilege.

[TR in conversation with MM:]

And it’s attainable. You did it one specific way but that’s not the only way to attain that level of freedom and access.

MM:

Yeh. It’s like I learned it from my travels but I feel like it’s not about the travels, right. You can learn it in your own backyard. it’s about the mindset… you want it, go for it!

[TR in conversation with MM:]

Mona, this was better than I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be great, but this was even better. (Laughs…)

MM:

Laughs…

[TR in conversation with MM:]

One hundred percent!

Congratulations! I’m going to keep watching. I want to make sure other people watch. So you got a fan over here ok, I just want you to know that.
MM:

Thank you very much, I’m a fan of yours too!

TR:

Please welcome the latest members of the Reid My Mind Radio Family. Planes Trains & Canes, that’s Natalie Guzi, Angela Becolli , Benjamin Ted Jimenez and leading the way with her white cane in hand;

Audio: Put some respect on my name!

Dr. Mona Minkara!

[TR in conversation with MM:]

where can people check out Planes Trains & Canes and also where can they learn more about you Mona?

MM:

They can go to PlanesTrainsAndCanes.com or go to YouTube and type Planes Trains & Canes or you can go to MonaMinkara.com to learn more about me. If you want to learn about my research check out MinkaraCombineLab.com.

If you’re on Twitter follow @PlaneTrainCane (singular) and @Mona_Minkara

You can subscribe to Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts.
Transcripts, resources and more are over at ReidMyMind.com. And yes, that’s R to the E I D (Audio: “D, and that’s me in the place to be!” Slick Rick)

Like my last name

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

Audio: Sounds of microphones being touched…

Marlett:

I am not touching the microphone or the stand.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Do you see me touching the microphone?

(Long Pause)

And I’m a professional! (Laughs…)

Marlett:

You heard my feet.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

What?

Marlett:

you heard my feet, I did this…

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Oh, don’t do that.

Marlett:

Ok!

TR:

What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family! My name is Thomas Reid. I’m the producer and host of this podcast, bringing you compelling people impacted by all degrees of vision loss from low vision to total blindness.

Every now and then, when inspired, I bring you stories from my own experience as a man adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult.

If you are newly impacted by blindness and you found the podcast, first of all welcome. Secondly, I think you’re going to like it here.

Today’s episode does include my wife Marlett. Ever since the last episode titled Celebrating 15 years of being Blind, I received some feedback from people who enjoyed hearing from her. I made the mistake of letting her know that. As you’ll see here today, it may have went to her head.
Despite that, I asked her on because, well, I’m a great husband.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:

Let me start this off with a warm virtual hug for you all. It feels like every day the idea of normal is pushed further and further. What we would have expected and accepted seems to be a continuous slide in the wrong direction. Specifically,
putting kids in cages, the death of 80 thousand people in two months or racists shooting an innocent young Black man.

Our responsibility, is not to accept it. not to simply act like it is normal.

On this podcast, I don’t often go into politics or current affairs except when I feel it relates to the process of adjusting to blindness. These connections are from my perspective. It’s called Reid My Mind Radio after all.

So when is a good time to accept a new normal?

Right now, just about everyone on this planet is dealing with a new normal. Although we’re all experiencing this pandemic differently, we’re doing it together.

There’s a similar feeling around acquiring a Disability. Now, I’m referring to all of those impacted; parent, child or spouse for example.

Similar feelings but there are some real differences between what is being felt during the pandemic and the experience of disability. For one, the entire world isn’t analyzing it on every news channel. There aren’t easy ways to gain multiple perspectives. It’s more likely something the family goes through alone. Hopefully it’s a real opportunity for that family to become a unit a real team.

I’m on this journey with you so I get it. And so does my wife, Marlett. I invited her on the show to get that team perspective from someone impacted by blindness.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

What I noticed from the last time is that if I ask you to introduce yourself you have a big production necessary for the intro and I don’t think I’m going to do that this time. Laughing…

Marlett:

Ok!

Audio: Intro from Celebrating …

Audio: “The Baddest Chick”, Trina

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Can you please just state your name for the record?

Marlett:
Marlett Reid

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

And who are you?

Marlett:
I’m the baddest chick!

Audio: As the music gets louder …

Marlett:
I’m your wife!

The music continues.

Now back in the present.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughing… You want to introduce yourself anyway?

Marlett:

My name is Marlett Reid, currently writing a book so it’s going to be M.E. Reid.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing… you’re here to promote your book? Laughing…

Marlett:

Laughing…

TR:

Ok, when my wife does publish her book, I’m not only buying a bunch for the RMM Radio family, but she’s definitely coming on the podcast. And that I tell you right now, will be the best episode I ever produce!

It’s not always the case, but Marlett and I shared some perspective around this idea of finding the new normal.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

When your life is uprooted because that’s what everybody kind of is really saying…

Marlett:

Right, right.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

And then now you have to start to see what is going to be the new normal. And I’m saying that we’ve …

Marlett:

Yeh, we’ve been there.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

The difference to me is that while we were doing that everyone was still living their normal. It felt like we were the only ones doing that because it was just impacting us and our family. Do you see any parallels between what we’ve been through and what’s going on right now?

Marlett:

Nothing new to us. Trying to figure out what to do coming up with new ideas of entertaining the family. Picnics in the living room or family night movies.

Social distancing, that’s funny to me because no one really came around We understood about social distancing people were doing that to us for quite some time. Distancing themselves from us.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Damn!

Marlett:

Well it’s true.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Mm Hmm… (In agreement)

Marlett:

They were distancing themselves. If we went to a party they did social distancing there too.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughs…

Marlett:

We would be in a corner or we’d be in one side and they’d be on another side. They just didn’t have a mask.

TR:

At least not one that was visible.

Audio: Plane taking off…

At the time of this conversation, I was in the process of producing what will be the next episode of the podcast featuring Mona Minkara and her Planes Trains and Canes production team.

The documentary series which can be found on YouTube follows Mona who is Blind, on a journey to 5 different cities around the world where she travels alone using public transportation.

I’m encouraging you to check out the series which I’ll link to on ReidMyMind.com.

I was curious to see what if any parallels Marlett would draw after an explanation of the documentary’s concept.

That is the resulting encounters a Blind woman receives as she’s recorded on video while traveling through an airport or subway.

Marlett’s perspective wasn’t what I expected, but it’s definitely understandable how she got there.
Marlett:

It made me think of African Americans, really. When they try to navigate or go through life, how people treat them.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Them? Are you Black?

Marlett:

How people treat us!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughs…

Marlett:

Walking into a bank or walking into a store or walking in a neighborhood.

Audio: YouTube…

“No Justice No Peace!” (Repeats while clips from a news reporter plays…)

“Arrests in the shooting death of a jogger in a Brunswick neighborhood for killing Amaud Aubry. The charges; murder and aggravated assault”

TR:

Perspective matters!

This conversation was on the heels of this latest senseless racist murder of Amaud Aubrey.

(Pause)

When it comes to adjusting to blindness, Marlett and my family are O.G’s in this game!

Marlett:

We have our thing down. We already know what’s going on like I know people talk to me instead of you and I know how I handle that.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Alright so give me an example of that.

Marlett:

If we go, anywhere you have to do something, they’ll talk to me.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

If somebody asked you for an example of that, is there any specific one that you would give. I’m curious to see if it’s the same one.

Marlett:

We went to go vote.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Oh my gosh!

Marlett:

The woman said you can bring him over here or something, you can correct me if I’m wrong but something to that affect. You spoke up. You said whatever it is that you wanted to say.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I don’t know if I said something or whatever? I probably said something…

Like oh you could talk to me. That’s probably what I said. So it wasn’t until after I got out …

Marlett:

And she said, I shouldn’t have done that. I liked her apology and it was to you. I don’t think she ever did that again.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

You’re right so we’re good. Like we’re real good. Like I say hello she says hello and it’s cool. It’s all good. That was a nice interaction because it came out where she got it like immediately.
Do you remember the first time. You might have not noticed it even happened the first time.

Marlett:

Maybe like the first time it happened I didn’t really think about it. Maybe about the third or fourth time I probably thought about it more. I think you and I spoke about it. You knew it was taking place and so you would just speak up real quick but then I think after we talked about it and I was like well I’m not going to say anything , you can just take your time in answering not just jump in there.

TR:

Y’all hear my wife’s way of trying to tell me to chill. That’s cute right! I know it’s because she doesn’t want me to be upset, but ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.

I know I shouldn’t take things personally, but having someone talk around me while I’m standing right there? Remember, I said there are things we should never accept as normal, this is one of them. My recommendation?

Marlett:

You would speak on it or be vocal about how it made you feel, but not like it caused tension between us.

I never answer for you. I won’t answer for you. I will walk away or I’ll turn and look at you for you to respond or I will look at my phone.

TR:

Marlett is so great with these situations now that Every time this happens , I almost feel sorry for the perpetrator. I can feel their confusion. If I am feeling let’s just say a bit feisty, I’ll let them hold onto their confusion and embarrassment for a little while. You brought it out, you hold it! It works, they get it.

It’s a cool play that Marlett and I execute well together.

Marlett:
We still have hiccups.

In the beginning it was a lot of hiccups there because you were used to taking the bags and just going. Boom!

What works best for us when we travel is if we discuss it beforehand. When we freestyle we generally tend to have some hiccups.

TR:

Now first of all did you notice how Marlett made it sound like I was the cause – as in, you were used to taking the bags and going.

Marlett:

Boom!

TR:

She’s right! But truthfully we were both used to that.

She’s also right in the need for us to all be on the same page. Communicate the plan before trying to execute.

On this team, we each have to play our role at any given time.

Our roster includes two more players – our girls.

Marlett:

When they were little that was a little harder. Usually they walked in front of us Riana would hold her sister’s hand and they would walk in front of us. Sometimes behind us and I would glance back occasionally just to make sure they were still with us.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I remember that was a thing because I would always ask you where the girls? (_Laughs…)

Marlett:

Yeh!

TR:

They’re 16 & 22 now. Amazingly, Marlett is still hovering around 32.

Traveling with them today?

Marlett:

The girls leave us!

They’ll make sure that we don’t have anything to hold us up. All we have to do is to get where we have to go. They’re more intoned to what works to get us to where we need to go. Like when we went on the cruise, they took the bags.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I had a bag.

Marlett:

You wouldn’t give up your bag.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I know, yeh, I’m not giving up my bag.

Marlett:

You’re not going to give up your bag that easily. You still got that machismo.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Oh, wait we’re gonna go there? You think that’s machismo? That’s alright, I don’t have to go into that because you’re wrong and I don’t want them to be all like oh my goodness Marlett we don’t like her anymore.

Marlett:

Some weird laugh that basically translates to whatever! Ok!

TR:

Ok, despite my lovely wife’s incorrect assessment that I have even an ounce of machismo, her lessons here can be helpful no matter who makes up your team.

For example, producing Planes Trains and Canes requires a real team effort. You can hear all about that in the next episode of this podcast.

Before that episode drops on June 2, go check out Planes Trains & Canes. It’s not necessarily a pre-requisite but we do dance around some specific scenes from the documentary series.

I’m also curious to see if we see similar parallels between the show and adjusting to blindness.

Marlett:

I feel like if you’re traveling with someone who is Blind , you two should have a conversation. What makes each one comfortable?

In the beginning when this all happened I was I think in my feelings. I don’t think I really thought about you or me but more so how everybody else was looking at us. Once I got over that part, which I’m not fully over it, but for the most part I am; we work better!

TR:

Adjusting to blindness is not really a place you arrive but rather an ongoing journey. You either decide to take it or find yourself well not really going anywhere.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

What would you say goes into being able to accept a new normal?

Marlett:

Understanding you can’t change anything so you got to make it work for you. You know the pandemic came around, there’s nothing we can do about it, there’s no cure. The only thing at this point is you got to stay away from people so that is going to be our new normal. Handle it! Things always change that’s life. Nothing ever stays the same, you got to change with the times.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

… That’s real talk!

It doesn’t sound like you’re very compassionate about it . Like I thought you might be a little more compassionate.

Marlett:

I am being compassionate. I’m telling you the truth. I’m trying to get you to get over it quickly. Pull off the Band-Aid. It is what it is. I could hold your hand and we can go through it but…

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

See I don’t understand why you can do that but when I do that you’re like (mockingly) Tommy! (Laughs) ]

I’m just going to put this out there because I try to tell everyone I’m the compassionate one in the family.

Marlett:

Exhales… Uh Lord!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

And I think I just got proof of that. It’s definitely evidence.

Marlett:

I realized one thing about this pandemic, this whole thing with the Tick Tock.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Oh God! Laughing…

Marlett:

But wait a minute. This whole thing with the Tick Tock!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Hold up, hold up, hold up! I don’t know if everybody knows Tick Tock.

Marlett:

Well Tick Tock is this app where the older generations are dominating this app. I think a lot of people know about Tick Tock. But the great thing about Tick Tock is that…

Audio: Marlett continues with volume lowered….

TR:

Reid My Mind Radio Family, I need your help. I think my wife has an addiction to Tick Tock. If you don’t know, it’s a pretty popular app now that was pre-pandemic considered for the kids. It enables quick short videos often consisting of lip singing or short dance routines.

I’m going to spare you as she tries to rationalize her obsession with claims of this app building bridges.

I’m not saying it’s not true, because honestly, I don’t really use the app. the majority of the content that I’ve come across is predominantly visual and audio description is not an option.

Even the killer content I made with my youngest Raven, a highly sophisticated and intricate dance routine, had no way of including description.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Yo whose the Tick Tock Killa?

Marlett:

That would be you Thomas. (Said very sarcastically!)

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

That’s me, the Tick Tock Killa!

I think you only like Tick Tock because you like to say Tick Tock. I think that’s why this app is actually doing so well because people like to say Tick Tock.

Marlett:

Tick, Tock!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I should have named my podcast Tick Tock and I probably have a whole lot more people listening and subscribing, you know what I’m saying?

Marlett:

I don’t know maybe you’re right. I do like Tick Tock. Yeah!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I ask people to subscribe…

Marlett:

It’s the way you ask people… (she fades her own voice out)

It’s the way you do it! You have to ask…

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Wait up, first of all how do I do it? That it’s the way I do it.

Marlett:

I don’t know how you do it, but it’s not the right way. I’m just saying it’s probably not the right way.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

How can you say it’s the wrong way. Oh my God! (Laughing hysterically)

Marlett:

So I’m going to ask everybody to subscribe. And leave me a little heart emoji or a smile or say hi Marlett. (Spelled out)

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Where are they going to do that?

Marlett:

At ReidMyMind.
my content

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Dot com you’re talking about? You want them to subscribe and leave a comment on the episode page?

Marlett:

Yeh!… Yeh!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Now I’m gonna tell you right now…

Marlett:

Yeh! I would like everybody to say hi. I would love it. I feel that energy it would just make me so happy. Just, just tell me hi!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Long pause…

Do you know how many times I ask people to subscribe, to reach out?

Marlett:

And Subscribe…

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I give the phone number. I get some people, but you think you’re going to get…. (Laughs…)

Marlett:

What’s so funny?

My energy and their energy. They’re feeling my energy and they’re going to go and subscribe and they’re going to say hi Marlett.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

So what’s the matter with my energy?

Marlett:

Hi Marlett. (Name spelled out)

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

What’s the matter with my energy?

Marlett:

And I’m going to say hi right back. And I’m going to send emoji’s and everything. Yeh!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Ok!

Marlett:

Cause I have an awesome energy.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Ok, I hope you’re right

Marlett:

I’m right!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Exhale….

Marlett:

I’m right!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

On the real, I’d be jealous. I’m not going to lie. I’d be a little jealous. I’m not going to hate though. I don’t think they’re going to do it anyway.

Marlett:

Laughing… Alright!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Cause I know you’re only doing this because you lost the Tick Tock battle, because you never did it because I won the Tick Tock battle.

Marlett:

Exhales….

I didn’t do the Tick Tock because I didn’t want to hurt your feelings.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

I killed that joint! If I have an audio described Tick Tock, Bee, I’m killing the game! Put some audio description on my Tick Tock, and then everybody be like Yo! Tick Tock Killa, T.Reid… Tick tock Killa!

Marlett:

You know, speaking of audio description…

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Alright, thank you babe!

you’re trying to take over the podcast now I can tell.

Marlett:

I’m not done.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Excuse me!

Marlett:

I’m not done.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughing… what? Laughing…

Marlett:

Why are you trying to kick me off . You know what it is right?

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

What?

Marlett:

He’s jealous. (Long pause)

Because the shows I’m on do so well. Mm hmm. Because I’m on it.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughs…

Marlett:

It’s that energy.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughing…
The energy that’s going to get people to do what?

Marlett:

They’re going to go and they’re going to subscribe

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Umm hmm And how are you going to know they did that?

Marlett:

Because they’re going to leave me a little note and it’s going to say Hi Marlett! (Named spelled out again)

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

You know you got that spelling thing from me right?

Marlett:

I think you got it from me. Yep!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughing…

Marlett:

So make sure you go, Reid My Mind Radio!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Where can they go to subscribe?

Marlett:

Anywhere that has podcasts.

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

And then what’s the website?

Marlett:

ReidMyMind.com

R to the E I D

(Audio: “D and that’s me in the place to be!” Slick Rick)

Marlett:

Like MY last name!

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughing… That was good!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Marlett:

Peace

[TR in conversation with Marlett:]

Laughing… There it is. alright, Nice!

You’re trying to get your own podcast. Whatever Bee. I didn’t press record.

Marlett:

That’s not even funny!

Hide the transcript

Audio: Guess Who’s Back-Once Again… A T.Reid Re-Mix!

TR:
Incredible indeed!
I’m referring both to our last three episodes featuring the 2018 Holman Prize winners. And today, we go back…
Audio: Chuck D says Back!

back to catch up with the 2017 Holman Prize trio.

I’m T.Reid. Allow me to welcome you to the podcast.

Reid My Mind Radio is simply my space to share stories that you may not get anywhere else. Well, at least from my perspective and told in the way I like to tell them. Occasionally I share stories around my own experience of blindness.

Maybe you wonder why? Well, why not! Everyone has a story to tell. It’s up to you to find the relevance, the meaning. It’s up to me to find the focus, keep it moving and hopefully make it sound cool.

There’s a few ingredients to doing that, the first is my theme music!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Theme Music

TR:

Listening to podcasts can be an intimate experience. Just think about it, if you’re wearing earbuds or headphones especially, the person speaking is right there. As a listener I know I have come to feel as though I know the person on the other side of the recording.

As a producer, not only do I get to interact with the guest during our conversation and email exchanges, I’m editing their words. By the time you hear the end result I listened to what they had to say for hours.

Add in the fact that my guests are often impacted by disability so we have a shared experience.

Well I’m not ashamed to say that I often become very fond of guests. Not in a creepy way, rather I become a fan, a cheerleader on the sideline routing for their success.

The three 2017 Holman Prize winners are a great example of this. Each having a specific aspect of their life in common with mine. So watching them from a far fulfill their Holman Ambition was exciting and in some way I felt emotionally invested.

In the next three episodes I’m bringing you an update directly from Ojok Simon, Ahmet Ustenel and we begin with Penny Melville Brown.

PMB:
Is that you?

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
That is me! (Laughs…)

PMB:
Helloooo!

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
Hello Penny, how are you?

TR:

Yes, she was expecting my call, but who wouldn’t like such a kind greeting. Plus, I love the British sayings….

PMB:
I actually had it in my hand so I wasn’t going to make a big breakfast of it.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
Laughs!

TR:

Remember Penny Melville Brown? She’s the 2017 Holman Prize winner and host of Baking Blind where she cooks up new recipes each episode giving viewers an empowering taste of blindness and disability.

Here she is from our original 2017 episode

PMB:

My first career was in the Royal Navy.

[TR in conversation with PMB]
Why did you want to enlist in the Royal Navy in the first place?

PMB:
I needed a complete change of life.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
What were you doing prior to that?

PMB:

Well I was at university so I completed my degree. I done a postgraduate qualification. I was due to get married the following year and my fiancé was killed in a car accident so I decided that I needed a complete change.

[TR in conversation with PMB]
Oh, I’m so sorry!

TR:

When I spoke with Penny and the other Holman Prize winners, it was shortly before they actually received their prize at the San Francisco Lighthouse.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]

So what I thought we could do was kind of go back and revisit when you were in San Francisco. Just tell me a little about what that was like getting your award and meeting your other Holman prize recipients.

PMB:
San Francisco was really exciting and I was introduced to this delightful facility called Lighthouse. They have lots of functions and facilities on three floors to support visually impaired and blind people. And lots of very positive people who understand the sort of challenges we face and have got lots of answers for it. That was really positive.

TR:
The Lighthouse had a week of activities scheduled for the inaugural prize winners.

PMB:
I did some cooking in their training kitchen. I did cooking in a really super restaurant called One Market. Lots of good experiences even going on the beach to be near the Pacific Ocean which I hadn’t done before. And that was great!

TR:

After the week long Holman festivities Penny was slated to kick-off her Baking Blind global adventure.

Among the many destinations that would take her to six continents, China Live , in San Francisco’s Chinatown was her first stop.

PMB:

Where I was cooking with this absolutely exceptional top chef called Louis.

TR:

San Francisco has lots of flavor!

PMB:

A place called Brown Sugar. Cajun Creole cooking and they were showing me how to make southern fried chicken and waffles and shrimp and grits.

The Cheeseball Collective – they make lots of Sourdough breads and they’re famous for their pizza.

Audio: Airplane taking off!
TR:

In Virginia Beach, alongside another Naval Commander, Penny cooked lunch for about 20 people.

PMB:

And that’s where we celebrated The 100 years Centenary Celebration of the Women’s Royal Naval Service.

Then I came back to the UK for a week to catch my breath.

Audio: Airplane taking off!
Then I was in Chongqing in China. That is the biggest city in the whole world!
It is amazing, vibrant, inspirational, colorful, friendly, buzzing…

There I cooked with professional chefs in the hotel, but also with home cooks.

We also supported a couple of local blind women who really get no training on cooking at all. When the professional Chinese chefs took them onboard it was quite heart stopping.
The empathy between them, the care with which they were showing these young women how to cook probably for the first time in their lives. I just stepped back and let them get on with it.
One of the most important touching events of being there.

Audio: Airplane taking off!

TR:

Then we head down under to Australia. I’ll let Penny

PMB:

A place called Kiama! I think that’s how you say it.

We cooked with some local home cooks, but also with an Aboriginal chef. And that was really amazing.

TR:
During the trip, Toby, Penny’s nephew and camera man along with a friend were swimming in the sea and got caught in a undercurrent.

PMB:
So we had 4 police cars, 2 paramedic units 2 helicopters doing an air sea rescue for them.

Another 5 ten minutes at least one of them would have been gone.

## TR:

Fortunately, everyone turned out ok.

After cooking with some other blind cooks in Sydney and doing more in Perth, Penny was off to Malawi.

PMB:
In Africa. We flew into the capital LiLongwe. and we stayed at a really unusual hotel called the Latitude Hotel.

They use a lot of recycled items in their decor.

TR:

Getting out and cooking in the community was always one of Penny’s top priorities. In Malawi, she had the chance to observe a celebration for a village leader and meet with members of the Albino community.

PMB:

They face huge problems in various parts of Africa.

Because they don’t have pigmentation in their skin, they are very prone to skin cancer.

They have significant problems getting employment , being socially integrated. The propensity for Albinism out there is quite high.

In the past a lot of them have been attacked because their bones are considered to have ritual magic properties. So Albinos will be killed. Their bones will be dug up and exported for ritual magic.

They’re an incredibly vulnerable group.

TR:

Being with the people further expanded her concept of how cooking is done around the world.

PMB:
A couple of bricks on the ground. Some fire between the bricks and a pot stuck on top of it.

The chicken arrived live and had to be taken away and head cut off, plucked. It produced eggs during this process which were dually cooked. It was breath taking stuff.

It was a real privilege to spend some time with them.

Audio: Air Plane

And then I came home. And I was over in France just before Christmas looking out for some new cooking opportunities when I had this big accident.

Audio: Sad music & ambience

I don’t really remember the accident

TR:
That’s the car accident in France that left Penny in a coma for 6 weeks. Intensive care for 2 months followed by a lot of physical therapy in a rehabilitation hospital.

PMB:

Because I’d broken my C2 Vertebrae. To be honest, I very nearly died.

I broke all the ribs down my left side, my sternum, another vertebrae lower in my organs got a bit bashed up too. I was in this sort of corset for gosh, nearly three months I think where they had to support my head and stop me moving because everything was so vulnerable because it was all this broken bone waffling around my spinal cord. Being Blind I didn’t understand what was going on all over my face so they had to tie me up so I couldn’t pull the tubes out. because if I had they wouldn’t been able to put them back and I would have died. All that time in bed meant that I had huge muscle wastage. Regrettably I didn’t lose any other weight, but I lost a lot of muscle. Then it took me about three months to learn to walk again and to build the strength just to sit up, just to stand up to walk.

So now I’m going through ongoing physio therapy, a bit of speech therapy because it affect my voice just a bit, I got a bit of PTSD… o gosh it’s all stuff and I’m getting through it.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]

Wow!

First of all I’m so happy that you are on the phone and you sound well. It sounds like you’re getting well?

PMB:
I am. I’m full of beans.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
Laughs…

The reference to beans and being full of them would have a whole different connotation in the states. Laughs…

PMB:
Laughs…

Perhaps if you think of jumping beans. How’s that?

[TR in conversation with PMB:]

Ok, ok, yeah, I know… it sounds, it sounds lovely!

TR:

But really, I’m just glad she’s recovering.

In addition to focusing on her rehab, Penny’s publishing the videos, recipes and blog posts documenting her journey.

PMB:

Oh I didn’t tell you about Costa Rica where we got caught in storm Nate.

TR:

For that full story, videos and more you’re going to have to go over to Baking Blind.com or visit her YouTube channel by the same name.

PMB:

Which I hope all your listeners will go “Like” and comment and particularly subscribe to.

TR:

Observing the Holman Prize winners from a far, you may not stop to consider the amount of planning and project management that goes into fulfilling these ambitions. Think of the details.

So of course I wanted to know what lessons were learned along this journey.

PMB:

I learned some French in hospital! Laughs…

TR:

Talk about making the best of a bad situation.
But she has more.

PMB:

I learned to try and pace myself which I don’t.

Life should be an adventure. You should go out and meet the challenges and not be frightened.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
Based on the experience that you had, I’m sure that there are people who would say you see that’s why I don’t go anywhere, that’s why I don’t do anything because this could happen. You’re not saying that. You’re saying don’t be frightened. How can you say that after all that you’ve been through?

PMB:
Well, I think being organized is really important. You know what you’re going to do where you going to do it. You have it all accessible to you. In audio or whatever you want to do. You have it all mapped out but then you play a bit of it freestyle. Otherwise life would be very dull.

TR:
Dull is not how I would describe Penny or her Baking Blind global experience.

Her final lesson sounds pretty consistent with this podcast.

PMB:

Enjoy people

It was always the people that were most important. Recipes were ancillary the cooking was ancillary. Always it was the people.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
What are you going to do after this year is over?

PMB:

I would just like to show there’s a different way of living if you’re willing to go and take the chance.

I would love somebody to say come and do Baking Blind with us.

I am perhaps going to manage a book out of it, but I could do with a publisher. Anybody knows of a publisher get in touch. But otherwise suppose I’ll just putter back to my kitchen and do humble cooking again. No, I don’t think that’s me at all do you?

[TR in conversation with PMB:]
No! Laughs…

PMB:
Laughs…

I’ll be looking for new adventures.

[TR in conversation with PMB:]

Good!

TR:

Like the end of a good movie, this is The Adventures of Penny & Baking Blind part one.

Whatever the next adventure is I hope she will share it here with the Reid My Mind Radio family.

Make sure you all go and subscribe to her YouTube channel and check out Baking Blind.com for more on her adventures.

Next time, we’re going to hear from the Captain, Ahmet Ustenel who was kayaking the Bosporus Strait from Europe to Asia, solo!

Don’t miss that episode or any other. Subscribe to the podcast.
We’re available from Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, Tune In Radio, Sound Cloud and your favorite podcast app. You can always slide on over to Reid My Mind.com. Say it with me…
R E to the I D! Spelled like my last name.

And now, I’m off to cook up a 5 course meal…

PMB:
Hearty Laugh.

TR:

Hey, I really am!

PMB:
Hearty Laugh.

TR:

Yeah, you’re right!

Peace!

Hide the transcript

Music…

Stacy Cervenka (SC):

I actually did get kissed by Bono. It’s really exciting. He was in our office to talk about Third World debt relief and Aids in Africa and he had just gotten out of a meeting with my boss and all the staff members came in to say hello

I reached out my hand to shake his hand and he just said “Ahhh, come here and give me a kiss” and gave me a giant smooch on my ear

Somebody thankfully caught it on camera so it’s a moment that I’ll be able to show my kids. (Laughs)

TR:

Greetings to you, the fabulous listener. Allow me to welcome you back.

Music continues…

That’s Stacey Cervenka, our latest Holman prize winner. In a few moments you’ll learn more about her and her ambition.
And yes, she was talking about that Bono, the activist rock star from the group U2.

If this is your first time here, welcome!

You joined us midway through this Reid My Mind Radio presentation of the 2018 Holman prize winners. I know we’re not supposed to make assumptions but I’m going on a limb. When you finish listening to this episode not only are you going to want to go back and hear the first in this 2018 series featuring the three Holman winners, but you’re also going to want to go back and listen to the 2017 prize winners.

Really, you should just stop right now and subscribe to the podcast. I’m pretty certain you’re going to like it.

I mean, you’ve been searching through the podcast directories looking for that podcast to fill a special void and you still haven’t found what you’ve been looking for!

Audio: “Still Haven’t FoundWhat I’ve Been Looking For”, U2

While I drop this intro music, you go and hit the subscribe button

Audio: Reid My Mind Intro

TR:

Born in 1786 James Holman a veteran of the British Royal Navy became blind at 25 years old after an illness.

Soon after he studied medicine and literature and then became an adventurer, author and social observer who circumnavigated the globe. Undertaking a series of solo journeys that were unprecedented visiting all inhabited continents.

In this second in a series of three 2018 Holman Prize winners, Stacy Cervenka has the ambition of creating the Blind Travel Network – hoping to make travel more accessible to blind people, by blind people.

SC:

What I would really like to develop is an online website similar to yelp or trip Advisor or Cruise Critic where people are blind or have low vision can go to post reviews of places they’ve been. Ask and answer questions of other blind people and then also have feature blogs and video blogs and advice columns from seasoned blind travels maybe blind travel agents some travel agents who have worked with many blind people. Blind cane travel instructors. So basically it could just be a website where people can learn about not only various places they can travel but also techniques they can use to navigate in airports or monitor their kids safely at a water park or navigate Disney World as a blind person.

TR:
There’s the comparison to other crowd source travel sites, but Stacy is in no way in competition with them.

SC:

I don’t want to take the place of any of those message boards and I certainly encourage people who are blind or have low vision to be active in the typical message boards because they offer so much great information.

In order to decide what cruise or what resort or what Disney hotel is right for you, you have to do a lot of research. this will only be one piece of that, that can give you information that some other places can’t about what places are most blind friendly sort of speak.

TR:
Stacy has a significant amount of travel experience, both personal and work related.

She became intrigued by politics during college after attending a NFB Seminar in Washington DC where she met with legislators to discuss blindness related issues. She went on to intern with Senator Brownback from Kansas.

SC:

When I graduated they had a job opening and I applied and ended up working there full time for 5 years.

The electricity and the atmosphere in DC is unlike any other place I lived and it’s full of people who come there to work for public officials or for the headquarters of national nonprofits or for think tanks or government agencies. So it’s filled with people who are passionate about what they do and almost everyone who comes to DC is really, you know there very knowledgeable about what they do. They’re very passionate about what they do. They really care about what they do. So it’s just a mix of people who are excited about making the world better, whatever that means to them. So it’s just a really fun place to be in your 20’s.

TR:

As part of her job with the Senator, Stacy traveled to some interesting destinations. Like North Korea.

SC:
When I was there for a Congressional staff delegation we went to the demilitarized zone which is the border of North and South Korea. Most of the border of North and South Korea is about 4 kilometers of land mines except for at the demilitarized zone where the South Korean and North Korean soldiers actually face staring at each other all day and it’s really just like a blue line on the concrete and that is the border.

There are blue UN security sheds that straddle the border. We went into the UN Security shed s so we’re technically in North Korea when we’re on that side of the building and the soldiers were right there. I actually had to give up my cane, they wouldn’t let me take my cane because the North Korean soldiers could have thought that it was a weapon and shot. They wouldn’t have asked me questions. they wouldn’t have been like excuse me Miss what is that? We weren’t allowed to point we weren’t allowed to laugh , we weren’t allowed to smile . We had all of these things because we had to make sure that the North Korean soldiers didn’t see us as any sort of threat.

It was probably the most intense experience I’d ever had. You were very aware. I mean they would tell you right there, you see that building, there’s a sniper , there’s a North Korean sniper right on it. We can’t see him but we know he’s got his gun focused on us.

TR:
See, we all just gained some insight into traveling to north Korea as a blind person.
I’m betting that the majority of her travel experience is more relatable.

After working in DC Stacy went on to become the Executive Officer of the California State Rehabilitation Council.

SC:

Currently I’m mostly staying home with my two kids, but I’m also working part time as the Grant Administrator for the Nebraska Commission for the Blind. I also am the Chair of the National Federation of the Blind’s Blind parent Group

TR:

As a blind parent, Stacy’s accumulated lots of techniques that she wants to share with others.

SC:

Traveling can be something you do for a day with your kids in some ways. You go to a local amusement park or you go to a local hiking trail or a local state park. A lot of the techniques that you would use to monitor your kids at a park or at an amusement park in your home town are the same ones that you would use at Disney World.

TR:
The tips and techniques go beyond managing children.

SC:
If you were to say I like going to Broadway shows here is how I enjoy doing it as a blind person. In a way it doesn’t even matter if I’m going to a show in New York or Chicago or San Francisco or Denver or whatever. I can still probably use some of the techniques that you used or look at some of the resources that you looked at.

TR:

Stacy is planning to produce some of these techniques in the form of both written and video blogs. However, she’s looking for input from other sources as well.

SC:

Right now when people write a review it is kind of like writing a review for Yelp. You’re submitting it just as a user to the site.
I do plan on having featured bloggers, featured video bloggers. Probably going to choose about 5 or 6. Two or three blind people who travel a lot who have Different preferences, different ideas of what they like.

TR:

That’s a recognition of the diversity among blind people when it comes to preferred types of travel.

Traveling to an all-inclusive resort to lay on a beach where some prefer visiting amusement parks, camp grounds versus those who prefer actively participating in the culture of a city or foreign destination.

SC:

There might be another blind person who says you know my family is on a budget , we don’t have a lot of income, how can I arrange a vacation for my family that is as cost effective as possible and maybe that’s their number one concern

. I want to have several bloggers to have a variety of different perspectives . Maybe some people who travel with long white canes. Others who travel with guide dogs.

I would also like to have a blog from a blind orientation and mobility instructor who can feature not so much destinations they visit but techniques they use. Such as here’s some techniques for traveling through an airport. Here’s some techniques for monitoring your kid when you’re at an amusement park or when you’re at any park at all.

TR:

One stipulation that comes with the $25,000 Holman Prize is that winners cannot pay themselves. While she believes in paying for content, she’ll be seeking volunteer contributors in the early phases of the site until funds can be generated.

Here’s Stacy with more about her project plan and budget.

SC:

We get the funding in October and that’s when we’ll begin working with the website developer and business analyst to actually develop the site.

SC:

The actual development of a high quality website that you can find on Google and allows people to create user names and passwords and has many message boards and has a lot of functionality costs about $16,000 to create.

SC:

Right now we’re kind of doing some focus groups talking to different blindness organizations. Finding out what the blind community wants and needs out of the website. Functionality and features they want it to have.

We’re hoping to have the site completed by the end of December and then starting at the beginning of next year we’ll really be doing outreach and trying to get the blind public interested in using this site because if people don’t post on the website then it won’t be anything. Like I tell people Napster wasn’t one guy’s CD collection. Yelp isn’t one person’s blog. It’s only a good resource if a lot of people post on it.

TR:

It’s important to remember that local travel, such as visiting a restaurant, museum or venue in your home town is just as important to the site as visiting a resort in the Caribbean.

SC:

If you go somewhere in New York City a concert, a restaurant, see a show or skydiving bowling whatever and you write a review then hey when I go to New York City I can say ok let me log onto the New York City board and see what blind people have done in New York City.

What did they find accessible? What did they find welcoming? How can I go enjoy the Statue of Liberty as a blind person? How can I go enjoy a Broadway show best has a blind person?

I think it will only be a good resource if everyone contributes to it.

TR:

So much of the project’s sustainability and success is relying on community adoption. It’s therefore vital to assure the site’s user interface is easily accessible. Not only for accessing the information but for contributions from the community in the form of reviews and ratings.

SC:

That’s kind of the biggest challenge. We only have $25,000.

More people will find a website but people will use an app more often. I think an app is easier to use.

I went to eat at a restaurant now I’m in the cab or the Uber on the ride home let me quickly get out my phone and open the app and leave a quick review and just let people know. There’s Braille menus but they hassled me about my guide dog or whatever. I think it’s easier for people to do that on an app. The problem is if you have a smart phone you can still use a website on Safari or another browser, but if you only have a computer you can’t necessarily use an app. And so we want it to be accessible to the greatest number of people.

If I could have my way I would love to develop an app, but they are more expensive and I don’t know that we have the funds to do that, but that is something I’d love to look into for the future..)

[TR in conversation with SC]
Well that could be phase 2 but the first part is yes a website because they would need to talk to each other and that’s the basic infrastructure for that, but let’s put that out there because you know there’s no reason someone might want to fund your app.

SC:
Exactly, if anybody wants a great idea for an app or wants to help on some app development definitely contact me I would love that. But definitely want to make the website so that it works very well with Voice Over and Safari and Android so. We’ll make the website with the understanding that a lot of people will be accessing it on their phones.

TR:

Lots of blind or low vision people can appreciate the need for such an app. It comes out of shared experiences.

When living in DC, Greg, Stacy’s husband planned a date for them.

SC:

When we were dating, so this was about 10 years ago, my husband had setup a private horseback riding lesson for us at a stable in Washington DC. We were so excited. It was a surprise it was going to be a fun romantic date and it was like all lovey dovey. Then we got there and they weren’t going to let us ride because we were blind. They didn’t let us on the horses and then they told us to come back the next day and they led our horses around like we were in pre-school.

TR:
Greg grew up horseback riding. Stacy too was more than familiar with stables and horses. Not only taking a class in college she had other experiences.

SC:

While I was growing up I also attended a horsemanship camp that focused on sort of more technique and learning to actually ride and how to saddle and bride a horse, basic dress size. Saddling and bridling a horse is easy to do non visually probably as it is visually. It’s just like getting dressed or dressing someone else or simply putting on equipment on an animal. Blind guide dog users do it all the time with a harness. It’s a bigger animal and it’s different equipment but if you can put a harness on your guide dog you can put a saddle and bridal on a horse.

I grew up riding horses for fun with family on trips and stuff that were usually just trail rides where you sat on the horse and you hold on and the horse just instinctively follows the horse in front of it and the person on the horse in front of me would just call out if there’s a tree branch or there was a need to duck. So that’s not too challenging.

Actually riding in a ring often I would use environmental queues. Like if there was a radio playing somewhere to orient myself, if the instructor was standing in a part of the ring….using the sun as a queue in outdoor arenas – the sun is on my left side right now… so I can orient myself to the ring.
In college I did it similar .

I certainly never competed or did anything like that but I have probably more experience than your average sighted person.

TR:
Following a negative experience like Stacy’s, for a person with a disability turning to mainstream sites like Yelp risks bringing out ;
trolls or antagonizers,
defenders or explainers of the offenders actions.

SC:

I probably would have gotten a bunch of people saying “Aww well, you know they were just trying to be safe and they didn’t know better.” I’m not going to bother posting this just to get all of these invalidating responses.

we wish that we could have had a place that we could have looked in advance to find a stable that was welcoming that other blind people perhaps rode at or had experiences at.

I didn’t want to be afraid every time Greg and I decided to go somewhere.

TR:
mainstream sites with little to no experience with disability can leave you open to lots of generalizations and advice.

Like the time Stacy was searching for information about accessibility of ports of call on a planned cruise.

SC:

When I would ask questions about disability stuff I would get well we went on a cruise last year with my 92 year old mother and she uses a scooter and here’s what worked for her.

My needs are totally different. Our physical abilities and disabilities are one hundred percent different than an elderly person who uses a scooter.

They might really enjoy a bus tour. That might be a great shore excursion for them. They can take a bus tour, see a lot of sights in the city and not need to walk far. Where for a blind person unless you have additional disabilities walking isn’t a challenge, but you don’t want to sit on a bus and look at stuff out the window because you’re not interacting with it. You’re not experiencing it. You’re not hearing the sounds of the city. You’re not tasting street food. Our needs were just totally different.

I wanted to find a place where blind people could go and get advice from people who understood what our access needs were.

TR:

Whether it’s a guide dog handler getting turned away at a restaurant or taxi or a cane traveler being grabbed under the guise of assistance, negative experiences while traveling are bound to happen.

Maybe if something like the Blind Travel Network were available, Stacy and Greg’s experience at the horse stable would have been different.

Stacy brought in a local chapter of the NFB to work with the horse riding stable to help them improve their policy.

SC:

we didn’t come there to educate people. It was humiliating and frustrating and just awful. That wasn’t what we wanted.

TR:
Simply put.

SC:
It sucked!

[TR in conversation with SC]
I almost see your site as becoming a real vehicle for advocacy.

SC:
Absolutely. What I would hope is that resort companies and cruise lines and tour operators such as Disney will see that ok look there is this site with hundreds or perhaps thousands of blind people on it who want to travel. Who have the money and time to travel. Who have the interest to travel. We need to market to them. We need to be accessible to them. They are a target audience. It’s not charitable to be accessible, it’s just good business sense. Here are people who would like to go somewhere on vacation and we want their money so we need to be accessible and we need to be welcoming and we need to be nondiscriminatory. I think hopefully just by having all of us in one place will hopefully help the travel industry see that we are a market.

TR:

The Blind Travel Network is not only a means to improve access but it’s also a resource for training and a potential source of motivation or encouragement for those new to vision loss.

SC:

A lot of it is just getting rid of the idea that like you can never get lost. That everyone else knows exactly where they’re going. A lot of it is just comfort, travel in public too.

TR:

To find out more or stay in touch with Stacy’s progress

SC:

You can find me on Twitter @Stacy.Cervenka. You can email me at Stacy.Ceervenka@gmail.com…

TR:

For some, aspiring towards an ambition similar to those of the Holman Prize contest can be daunting. It’s an exclusive prize awarded to those who can first dream up an idea or concept that challenges their own personal boundaries. Which I believe is one of the goals of the contest.

The ambitions are the exclusive property of the entrants and winners. Everyone else is invited to observe from afar and be inspired to channel their own inner explorer.

Stacy’, through the Blind Travel Network, is offering blind and low vision people a chance to be a part of her ambition. A chance to create a global network that is for us and by us. In fact, it’s early success is dependent on that.

Congratulations to Stacy Cervenka for winning the Holman prize. I’d say an honorable mention goes to blind and low vision people around the world for the win as well.

Stacy is prepared to do her part in developing the site and creating the content. Hopefully many in the community are prepared to roll up their sleeves and participate in the form of reviews, ratings, the sharing of tips and techniques and of course the site itself within their own network of people who are blind or low vision. After all, the community reaps the benefits. The improved access to spaces like, athletic and performance venues, restaurants and museums increases the visibility of blind and low vision people in the public. These more frequent interactions with the general public can help to eliminate the odd reactions and discrimination like that which Stacy and Greg experienced at the horse riding stable.

So I guess the question I pose to you is will the success of the Blind Travel Network happen, with or without you?

Audio: “With or Without You” U2

Next time I’ll bring you the second of three 2018 Holman prize winners. Then we’re going to reach back out to our 2017 winners and Reid My Mind Radio alumni…

Penny Melville Brown of Baking Blind

Ahmet Ustenel AKA The Blind Captain

Ojok Simon, The Bee Keeper & Honey Farmer!

We’ll hear about what worked with their plans and what sort of adjustments were required. And of course lessons learned.

If there’s one lesson I want Reid My Mind Radio listeners to learn; that would be , how to subscribe to this podcast.

Apple Podcast, Google Play, Sound Cloud, Stitcher or Tune In Radio. Of course, whatever podcast app you use, you can find it there by search for Reid My Mind Radio. Just remember, that’s R to the E I D!

Each episode lives on the blog, ReidMyMind.com where I include links to any resources and a transcript.

We’re just about done meeting all of the 2018 Holman Prize winners. Only one more left to go. I’m sure you’re looking forward to the next one but that being the last, I know how that makes you feel.

SC:
“It Sucked”

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio outro Music
Peace.

Hide the transcript

TR:
What’s up everyone, I hope you’re doing well.
I thank you for being here. Salutes to you if you are a subscribing listener.

If you’re a first timer, welcome!
Maybe you could do me a quick favor?
How did you find your way here to the podcast?

Twitter? Facebook? Did someone send you the link or tell you about the show?

Let me know. Contact me via the social media platform where you learned about the podcast or email me at reidmy mindradio@gmail.com.

I think these stories deserve to be heard so I’m trying to figure what works to get the podcast in more ears.

I’d really love the feedback.

However you found your way here, I appreciate you and hope you stay.

Now let me guide you on over to today’s episode…
right after the theme music!

Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music

TR:
Indoor Navigation uses combinations of smart phones, floor plans , Wi-Fi and electronic beacons to help provide navigational information about a venue such as a mall, hotel, convention center and more.

Smart phones equipped with a screen reader such as voice over on the Apple iPhone, allows people who are blind or low vision to take advantage of this information and independently find their way from point a to b within a facility.

Ever since first experiencing indoor navigation I’ve been waiting for the chance to take advantage of this technology in the wild. By that I mean, make use of the system outside of a promoter blindness related event.

For the most part, applications have been installed at conventions of both ACB and NFB. While I heard there are installations in a few major airports I have not yet travelled through there in order to make use on my own.

Earlier this year I learned of a company named Boni. They’re the creators of the Loud Steps indoor navigation application permanently installed in the Doubletree by Hilton Hotel Chicago, North Shore Conference Center in Skokie, Ill..

Excited to learn more about the app and how this installation came to be I spoke with Paul Colgan.
PC:
I am the Director of Business Development and Corporate Strategy for Boni Loud Steps. We’re based here in Chicago, Illinois. We’re a Turkish-American company. There’s a development team in Turkey and then there’s myself and an engineer here in Chicago.

[TR in conversation with PC]
Why don’t you start off by telling us a little bit about Loud Steps.

PC:
Well Boni Loud Steps is an Indoor Navigation a;; for an iPhone with special features for the Blind and Visually Impaired. It also can assist Hearing Impaired people as well. It uses the sensors in the phone along with the Wi-Fi signals in a property to locate you in the property.

TR:

The app assures blind and low vision users can access the step by step on screen instructions navigating a person to their chosen destination.

PC:
The accuracy can be as good as a meter in a hotel where there’s a lot of Wi-Fi. It’s a little bit more than that in a mall or airport where the bigger spaces it’s harder to get the good accuracy.

TR:

Audio: Stepping Out, Joe Jackson

In order to explain how the application works, picture the following.
Let’s suppose I’ve been invited to speak at a conference in Chicago. It’s taking place at the Doubletree. Aware that the hotel is equipped with Loud Steps I download the app in advance. However, if I weren’t, when checking into the hotel, a receptionist would inform me of the app and even assist in downloading.

By using a QR code – which is sort of like the codes scanned in the supermarket – but when your smart phone recognizes this code it loads the address to download the application.

PC:
The app itself has a little tutorial in it for first time users. So that first time user gets a quick introduction to the app and then they can begin using it immediately.

TR:

Now that I’m checked in and have my room number, located on the third floor, I key that information into the app.

PC:

The app can then walk you to the elevator, the stairs, the escalator whatever it may be, and instruct you how to go that elevator. And then you can choose the third floor and when you get off the elevator it can tell you to turn right or left, down the hallway and direct you to your destination.

[TR in conversation with PC]
I’m familiar with other Indoor Navigation applications, so does this work similar. So you guys have to install the beacons?

PC:
No, we do not use beacons.

TR:

Beacons are small electronic devices that send a signal using blue tooth. The transmitted signal contains information about the location which can be received by the smart phone in this case.

But beacons cost to install and maintain. While not as expensive, it also introduces a point of potential failure.

PC:
We’re using the radio signal from the Wi-Fi access points to act as our beacon.

When we go into a building we survey all those Wi-Fi signals and we overlay that information – we call it finger printing the Wi-Fi signals every meter.

We put the points of interest on the maps . We label the offices, the rest rooms, the ATM. Then that information we can utilize very quickly to move you around, locate you, draw you a route then to walk you through that route just by using Wi-Fi signals.

TR:

If you’ve never used such an app, you can imagine how
This could reduce or remove the stress involved in spontaneously finding a point of interest in a facility like a hotel.

The technology isn’t new, it just hasn’t been permanently available in many facilities. But Loud Steps, is permanently installed at the Doubletree…

PC:
We went through a world leading innovation hub in Chicago called Elm Spring. One of the investors in Elm Spring was a company that owns the Doubletree. They allowed us access to the Doubletree to test our app and then of course make a permanent installation there.

TR:
Working directly with consumer groups generated feedback to help improve the app.

Implementing Loud Steps at the Doubletree was more like a partnership than an average B to B transaction.

PC:
Their staff and their people have provided us with a lot of feedback in terms of what is necessary to achieve the best service level – quality we need to do because it’s very important to them as a brand to make sure that they had the best possible service.

So they actually pushed us to do a high level job. And it really improved the app overall.

[TR in conversation with PC]
TR:
So when can we get something, you know, in other places, I’m dying for this type of thing.

Let me tell you I experienced this in a couple of places, but the one last year was actually in Pittsburg and I believe that’s a Doubletree property. Just the experience of being able to navigate from one place just seamlessly, just really seamlessly. Once you experience it’s like huh!
(PC laughs!)

And I go to a new hotel and it’s like oh it’s not here I wish I had there here. I want it everywhere! (Laughs…)

PC:
Well, I need that message repeated over and over. So the more you can repeat that message the better because it is a challenge when you go into a facility and they say well why should we do this, shouldn’t we wait until it’s mandated? We try to make the case to them that this is an opportunity to get ahead of the curve. This is an opportunity to provide a benefit to their guests. If they know there are potential customers out there they may not otherwise have then we start to get their attention. And that’s very important

TR:
If we’re only looking at people who are blind or visually impaired, well we know in comparison to the overall population we’re talking about 3 percent.

However, that could be significant.

PC:
When you go to an airport and you say, you have a million passengers coming through. That means there’s 30,000 potential passengers that may or may not becoming through your airport because they don’t know how to discover it. Or, if they come in they request or need an escort. In many of our users don’t want that. They want to have the independence, they want to have the confidence to do it themselves independently.

[TR in conversation with PC]
Is the intent at some point to market this outside of the Blind and Visually Impaired community? I’m assuming there’s other benefits for the general population.

PC:
Oh, there is, exactly. You hit on a key point and this is something that’s been emphasized to us by Mike May who’s with Sendero. Mike makes a very strong point. He says, “I don’t want a single purpose app. Even though they’re beneficial, I want an app that’s available for everyone that has special features so I can use it.”

That’s the way our app is designed and frankly we designed it that way from the ground up. But it was only later that we got confirmation of that from people like Mike May that we were headed in the right direction.

TR:
People with disabilities aren’t the only group who need to find their way around in unfamiliar environments. In addition to navigation, Paul offers a few possibilities that go beyond serving those with disabilities.

PC:
We have the ability to direct you to where the nearest exit is. If there’s an emergency whether it be an incident or fire or you have to vacate the building, we can direct you to the nearest exit. Let’s say there’s a medical emergency. If you suffer a medical event and you need to have a first responder get to you quickly we can communicate it directly to the first responders exactly where you are located in the building so that they can go right to you. If we know that there’s a problem in the east wing we direct you out the west wing.

[TR in conversation with PC]
What about the business side? For example, in malls to be able to serve people ads like when they’re near a Starbuck’s and they’re going to offer you ten percent off a Latte or something like that. Is that part of the plan?

PC:

Yes, So we are doing that now in the malls in Turkey. So we have the capability of providing push notification that’s called. Where yeh, you come by the Starbucks, you come by Kohl’s or whatever the store is that’s in the mall and using your proximity it gets you some information. It could be a coupon it could be well if you come in for the next hour we’ll give you ten percent off. Something like that is really what the retailers want to offer. We now have some capability on our staff to do more precise mapping. What we’re experiencing in Turkey has found that the better maps, the more precise maps, the more up to date maps we have allow the mall operators and the stores in the mall to do a better job of marketing and therefore they get a better response from the users . And so it’s turned into a win-win situation.

[TR in conversation with PC]
I’ve been saying this for years…
if it’s all about marketing to the general public that’s great because that’s the way we’ll get a wider adoption. It’s a bigger audience, it makes sense.

PC:
People want to do the right thing, but they still have budgets to meet. If you can come back to them and say, here’s what I can do for you. Here’s how it can benefit your facility and it now gets their attention. They want the investment because they can see the benefit of it. So that’s part of our sales pitch. Sounds like I should be talking to you about what are you doing on the side business.

PC & TR Laugh…

You’re a good salesmen. You anticipate my needs and my questions already.

[TR in conversation with PC]

The applications for it, to me seem endless. You just have to really be creative with the way you use the system and as long as there’s functionality there. I’ll give you this one or maybe you have it already. There’s was the whole, what was the game?

PC:
Pokémon?

[TR in conversation with PC]
Pokémon, exactly!

A mall, for kids? Come on that’s a no brainer. Building these types of things in there. The kids can have fun using that type of thing.The adults, I mean you can gamify shopping and people will probably buy more, but then at the same time a person with a visual impairment can get to the mall and independently navigate, that’s, that’s huge.

PC:
Yes, That is the goal I mean you’ve outlined the goal very well. That is where we want to be. We want to be an app that can serve a very broad audience, but again have those special features for the visually impaired, the hearing impaired, other people who need a little bit of assistance and do it in such a way its mainstream.

TR:

Boni, based in Turkey, has multiple installations throughout that country.

PC:
There are several locations in Turkey where we have the application installed. Now understand, we used to be a beacon company as well so most of the installations in Turkey are beacon installations but here in the United States I’m trying to do the rollout with just Wi-Fi. In Turkey we do have an airport; Antalya Airport, that’s where we tested it for the airport users. There in conversations with other airports there in Turkey and Europe.

##TR:
In addition to securing other Doubletree locations, Loud Steps looks to go beyond just hotels.

PC:
We’re beginning a test out at O’Hare. We’re not yet at a public level yet but we’re doing some testing there. I’m also talking to some other hotels and other lighthouses around the country. And other facilities that serve the needs of the blind and low vision community about installing some applications at their facilities so they can become training grounds for people to learn how to use the app. And then of course we hope to get it into the community.

TR:
For those in the New York City area , Boni is currently working with the city’s transportation department on a pilot program that will expand the reach of Loud Steps.

PC:
An outdoors application that can inform users at a traffic intersection of when the lights change. It will tell you what direction the traffic is It can tell you where the bus stops are, subways from you location. But more importantly, there’s a bike path there. It’s a very busy intersection in New York City and although it has the APS, Audible Pedestrian Signals system there, they’re looking for a way we can use the app to communicate to the user this information. So again a blind or low vision person can get the kind of information they need when they come upon an intersection. So if they learn quickly what obstacles they’re going to have to deal with in order to cross the street.

TR:
So using this app, a blind or low vision pedestrian would gain real time information including, traffic flow, orientation and surrounding points of interest, traffic light changes, plus…

PC:
We can tell you when you’re deviating from the crosswalk. We may even put in a countdown in there to help you know how long you have to cross the street.

TR:
This attention to detail goes back to Boni’s approach to design.

PC:
We have a design philosophy of solve for accessibility first. Meaning that we have looked at solving the accessibility problems as our primary job and then we built the application from there. As a result we have a I think a better application, a simpler application call it more elegant. It works very well. Easy to learn. By solving for the accessibility issues first, not just an add on, we’ve done a much better job building a great app for people.

TR:
To contact Loud Steps…

PC:
www.loudsteps.com

If you want more information and want to suggest a facility. If you have a hotel, a mall an airport or anything near you you’d like us to talk to the owners, I’ll be happy to do it. My email is paul@boni.meI’ll follow up with you. I’ll send you information about the app and I’ll be happy to follow up with any facility you recommend that I need to talk to.

[TR in conversation with PC]
In terms of the community advocating for this type of installation, outside of contacting you and saying hey, you should put this in my mall (laughs) what else should folks be doing?

PC:
I think that whenever and wherever that they can support the idea of Indoor Navigation for the visually impaired, they should voice it.

Although we are in business to promote our app, but the reality is we work with a lot of other people. We are collaborating on many different levels to try and bring the whole concept of the industry to the wider audience out there and one of the things we’re doing through Sendero for example, is trying to build a database of facilities that have the indoor navigation applications available to them. And in most cases right now it’s beacon based.

So we’re building a database of all the beacons and where they’re located. So whether you’re using my app or somebody else’s app that you have the beacon information and you can go into that facility and use an app. So the idea here is that we want to make it easier for the blind community, the low vision community to find access to this. So anything the community can do to advocate and support the idea of indoor navigation. To tell they’re local government official, we’re talking to universities different places, airports wherever malls… this is a benefit and the number of people out there who may not be visiting your mall because they don’t know how to discover their way through your mall that mall owner is missing an opportunity for a sale. I think the more the community can articulate that, the better it is not only for us but other providers.

Audio: “Ain’t No Half Stepping'”, Big Daddy Kane

TR:

I was very glad to hear Paul say this. I think I told him during the conversation that I tried multiple applications and I am not tied to anyone. I’m a fan of the broad technology and what it provides.

My only issue really with multiple solutions is the extra responsibility to learn and become comfortable with each app.

Personally, I don’t really see this as too much of a problem. As long as the interface is accessible the main components are where am I right now, where do I want to go and how is this app going to help navigate me there.

But that’s me, I like and understand the technology. I would hope to see some standards built in to help those who may find it more challenging to learn the app.

On that same note, I know there are many people who might say, hey I have the skills to independently explore a new location. I go to a mall without the aid of an application and I do just fine. So can you.

Let me speak directly to you… come here, lean in nice and close.

Congratulations, that’s your business.

Lots of times I think people should be able to grasp something because, well I get it therefore I think anyone should.

But that’s really not how the world works.

We all have different strengths and weaknesses. What may be simple for me could really challenge another person.

Technology is about increasing options.

This technology isn’t replacing the need to learn real orientation and mobility skills. It’s just another option to gain access to information that is otherwise inaccessible.

Options are good!

Like you the listener has the option to subscribe to this podcast. You could choose to use Apple Podcast, Google Play, Sound Cloud, Stitcher, Tune In or straight at Reid My Mind.com

Hopefully you make the right choice to subscribe! And either way, if you like the show maybe you would consider giving the podcast a 5 star rating.

I know what you’re thinking …

‘PC:
Why should we do this? Shouldn’t we wait until its mandated?

## TR
Well, first of all, while that would be really helpful I haven’t convinced any of my representatives to introduce this bill, just yet!

But really, all of this helps others discover the show.

And..

PC
This is an opportunity to get ahead of the curve.

TR:
He knows what he’s talking about!

Peace!

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