Posts Tagged ‘Adjusting’
Wednesday, March 10th, 2021
There is power in conversation. A real friend can not only make you feel better by listening, but every now and then, they say something that affects you. Some times it lifts you up. other times it may not feel so good, but it’s meant to empower. Occasionally, it can even spark an idea.
Pramit Bhargava, is the founder of an Android app called Louie. Today, we explore his personal adjustment to blindness story. He shares an honest look into his experience with vision loss and how his view of blindness and disability has dramatically changed over the years.
And of course, there’s Louie!
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Transcript
[show_more more=”Show the transcript” less=”Hide the transcript”]
“Friends” Whodini
“Friends! How many of us have them? Friends! Before we go any further…”
— Instrumental continues
TR:
Allow me to welcome you back to the podcast.
My name is Thomas Reid. I’ll be your host on this journey. even better, I hope I can be your friend.
See on this podcast, this podcast right here, we’re all about featuring compelling people impacted by all degrees of Blindness and disability.
And one of my core beliefs as a person adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult is that the people we meet along our journey who have been traveling that path before us can be really important to helping us find our own way.
“Friends.”
Friends come in all shapes sizes and colors. Today, we even have virtual friends… You think you know what I’m talking about but let’s find out!
“Friends!”
Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music
— Audio of Louie sample from YouTube…
TR:
You’re listening to a sample of an app called Louie. It’s a virtual friend who can assist you in completing tasks within apps like YouTube, What’s APP, Uber and more.
We’ll get more into that later.
Right now, I want to share the story of how it came to be, which like the app, is really all about being of assistance to those adjusting to vision loss.
pramit:
I’m Pramit Bhargava, I’m the Founder of an app called Louie Voice Control for Visually Impaired people like us!
my life has been half with vision half visually impaired. I am by education a computer engineer. And then I went in for MBA. I had normal vision. So I was just like a regular guy.
TR:
A regular guy who attended both the India Institute of Technology and the India Institute of Management where he received his MBA.
Think M.I.T!
After graduating, well, he entered that race.
Pramit:
Running running to go up the corporate ladder. I was working like crazy. And with these global companies, you had to keep all kinds of hours giving the time difference.
I was in marketing, and then I moved on to managing businesses. For example, for quest diagnostics, I set up a couple of businesses in India. And life was all about, you know, moving up the corporate ladder and running and running.
TR:
He was about 30, living a very active lifestyle which included playing Squash. He began experiencing rheumatic joint pain.
Pramit:
it just came out of the blue, no family history, and they couldn’t diagnose it. So they put me on what we know as hydrochloriquine.
— Audio clips of Hydro chloroquine & Covid19
Pramit:
The good thing was that I could still get some correction. So I could still continue to work with these companies.
But then all along my vision was dropping and I kept sort of readjusting. I was also moving into a senior level position. So a lot of my work therefore involved strategy, thinking through problems, leading teams.
Emails, PowerPoints, and excel sheets are all there. The capabilities that I was leveraging, were really the strategy thinking, and execution, team leadership, so not so much, looking at the screen all the time.
TR:
There’s often discussion around when and how to disclose a disability to a prospective employer. Pramit opted for transparency.
Pramit:
I think the reason was very simple, because my vision was so bad they would have seen it
So I had a very clear plan of action. I would be upfront.
TR:
Not only did he disclose his disability, but pramit even suggested that hiring managers take some additional time to be sure of their decision to hire him.
Occasionally there were empathetic people in power, but the response he received let him know decisions were being made based on his skill set.
Pramit:
Look, it doesn’t matter. Because we want a certain skill set. We want your mind to work your brain to work, it doesn’t matter. Yes, they had expectations of some very basic,
I should be able to manage my emails, I should be able to read some stuff. they did have those expectations.
I think the fact that I was very upfront, and I didn’t want to sign on the dotted line, so to say, and I wanted them to think about it, , before we took the next step.
A couple of them in fact, asked me to go for eye test, , and of course, the eye test results. Were not great or anything, but at least , the whole thing was very transparent. It just knocked off the pressure.
TR:
Well at least external pressure.
We want to believe in the idea that we’re judged based on our skills. A meritocracy, but the statistics tell me that’s probably not a common experience for most people.
Remember, Pramit graduated from the top technical and business schools in India.
— Audio transition changing tone …
Pramit:
there came a time. Suddenly, I couldn’t read anything at all. I couldn’t make out any Excel sheets, PowerPoints.
And, , because I had that little vision, I wasn’t really using any of the technologies, I wasn’t using a screen reader,.
So the mind said oh, I don’t need it, I can manage it.
TR:
Over a 12 year period as his vision changed, his adaptations did not.
Pramit:
I hit that point where suddenly my confidence was gone.
In my mind the devil saying, I can’t do this, I can’t do that. If I can’t do this, how will I be able to do a job like this?
TR:
It wasn’t anything external, in fact, Pramit continued to get job offers.
Pramit:
I was sort of just sitting at home two and a half, three years doing nothing.
Every time I would get offers, , for similar positions, and something inside me will tell me no, no, no, , let me not make a mess of it, I won’t be able to do it.
I was getting very, very dependent for simple things.
I mean, even to answer the phone, , I had to ask somebody, okay, Who’s calling? Or if I had to dial somebody on a touchscreen.
TR:
Pramit was living with decreasing Low Vision for about 12 years. Not passing as sighted, but also not working as Blind
At first glance, it might appear as if he were in a really good situation. He had a high level career, management was supportive, he had resources including assistants. So I had to ask in order to make it clear.
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 13:49
What made you lose your confidence?
Pramit
(Long pause… followed by a slight laugh)
I think See, I think combination of two things if honestly, if you asked me, I think a I was in that phase of life where I was trying to run, run and like I said, go up the corporate ladder. So let’s say if there was a goal, if at that time somebody had asked me, what is that one thing you want to achieve in life? I would have said, Okay, go up the corporate ladder, become a CEO, become a CEO of a bigger company. So that was one. Sometimes the way I almost think of it was that the higher you are flying, the bigger is the fall. (Laughs)
It’s A – about my aspirations and just not knowing what I should be doing next with life.
TR:
pramit wasn’t receiving negative feedback from his peers or management.
Pramit:
You know, that you are hitting that point where performing to that level is going to be difficult, just struggling for everything struggling to present struggling to analyze.
For example, let’s say you look at a trend on an Excel sheet. Now if you can see it, the numbers start speaking a story. When you try and do it with a screen reader cell buy cell buy cell, sometimes that story may get lost. And because I was not even using a screen reader. (Chuckles) So imagine, now, I’m not seeing anything, and suddenly those numbers are coming. I think a combination of, I was trying to fly high. My aspirations, the fact that I was not preparing myself for that, gradually I could have, but I didn’t.
That loss of confidence was not because of anybody telling me, it was all inside me all in my mind.
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 17:32
I definitely understand, and I just wanted to kind of pull that out, because I think it’s an important piece. So it’s like, you have your own standards. And if you’re not meeting your standards, well, that starts to impact you. It’s not always external. And so that’s why I wanted to drag that out a little bit from you.
Pramit:
Yeah, yeah! Absolutely!
In fact, If I can Thomas add to that, sometimes what happens We process somebody as low vision, or no vision as saying, oh, he cannot see. But I think important thing is what is going on in that person’s mind. Right, and how do we process it? How do we deal with that condition? I think that’s the bottom line. And that’s where, you know, I think my biggest whatever bottleneck was,
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 18:32
My teacher that I always go back to he used to say, everything starts with the thought.
Pramit:
Yes!
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
How is blindness perceived from your perspective in India? Because in a sense you were very privileged, would you classify yourself as that?
Pramit:
absolutely no doubt. I mean, the fact that I had vision, the fact that I had that kind of education and the kind of experience Yeah, certainly.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
What are the opportunities for others who may not have been or may not be as privileged?
Pramit:
I’ll give you a personal angle to this and I think it’s really important Right. Rather than saying how others would perceive, I can talk about how I used to look at blind when I had normal vision, I think it’s very important.
Honestly, I never interacted with somebody who’s blind. It’s not that I didn’t see them on the road. Because typically I’ll see them with a stick, and, you know, somehow managing or whatever, you know, people helping them, I just had zero empathy for blind people, you know, I’m just being very, very truthful on this.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
I appreciate it.
TR:
He admits, he had tunnel vision – focusing only on his goal of making his way up that corporate ladder.
Pramit:
Now, if I were to, let’s say, Now, extrapolated to a broader world in India, I would say that there are people of all kinds, I think, fortunately, I think there’ll be fewer people like me, who will have no empathy.
I think in India, also on top of it, I think the facilities, you know, for example, facilities for the visually impaired are fairly limited. Now, now that consciousness is going up. Like for example, now, all metro stations in India are designed for visually impaired, they have a lot of help available, right. There are tracks specially for them, you know, which they can follow. So, now, things are changing, but, there is definitely a perception issue.
TR:
And one of the best ways to change those perceptions?
Pramit:
I started interacting only when I started developing the app, Louis voice until such time, would you believe it, I have not had a real interaction. When I say real interaction, I may have seen somebody, I may have exchanged a word or two. But you know, that heart to heart one on one conversation, I, you know, till about, I would say two years back, I had not met a single visually impaired person in that sense. I was just trying to solve my own problems. I was just doing things on my own.
— Audio “Gladiator”
Pramit:
I started realizing that look, you know, just living for personal gain and living selfishly the way I had been all along. You know, it’s not something that’s great. Because I was very transactional, everything was about what is the benefit for me. You know, there’s nothing called you know, selflessly doing something. Now I’ve been consciously trying to change it.
TR:
Pramit’s self discovery didn’t begin with the app.
Pramit:
I think it’s a broader change which happened 15 years back now.
I was doing well in my career.
All of a sudden, these thoughts started coming into my mind, where am I running? What am I doing? Why, why am I here on earth? What is my purpose in life? I mean, it just came out of nowhere.
TR:
That inner voice may have always existed. Maybe the volume is low at first, but at some point it becomes noticeable.
Pramit:
Of course, I ignored it. You know, I kept ignoring it. I think it was only about maybe six, seven years back that I landed up, you know, at a meditation center.
TR:
I know, he doesn’t seem like a meditation center kind of guy.
Pramit:
There is so much of what happens when you’re an engineer, and an MBA from a top Institute. I was so left brain that I thought I knew everything in the world. That’s also part of that ego.
so I had gone to meet a friend who is like me, you know, similar career. So you know, again, you know, and he himself same materialistic, same same kind of thing. just happened over dinner, I just asked his wife tell me some good books.
I had just got introduced to audiobooks, by the way. So for years, I had not read anything.
Initially, of course, I started with some business books and so on.
so and then she just said, okay, read this book and nothing else.
The title sounded interesting, because I would have read a lot of autobiographies of business leaders, but not a yogi. I had zero interest in anything about Yogi’s or spirituality or religion.
TR:
That’s Autobiography of a Yogi
(available on Audible & BARD from the National Library Service for the Blind and print Disabled in the US.
Pramit:
I read the book, then there was this a certain meditation technique in that, you know, so I have just feared having read the book that my life will go to waste. If I don’t do that, you know, don’t learn that. And then accidentally, I had gone to a place to buy a book.
TR:
A book on that form of meditation.
While in the bookstore, he noticed a large hall . He asked about it.
Pramit:
They said, We teach this meditation.
I just landed up there by accident. So this is like all coincidences.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
No, that’s not coincidence.
Pramit:
Yeah, but I mean, it just looks like that now,
Ever since I came onto the path , I can well appreciate a lot of these things. I’m not doing it. It’s really a lot of you know, higher forces.
TR:
No matter what you believe in, the outcome and resulting actions should speak for themselves.
Pramit:
today, if I’m self-critical, it’s only because I am able to now assess myself because I can pull out and I can assess how big a jerk I was. And let’s say up to this time, and even now, sometimes, so I think which is good, that kind of self-assessment, and which happened only because I got onto this path.
TR:
Before he arrived on his current path, he admits trying other routes with alternative destinations.
Pramit:
I wanted to go back to the same life, the same kind of jobs.
TR:
But his confidence for that life was gone.
Then, he had a beer. But before you get excited, this is not an excuse for you to do the same. See, it’s not about what he was drinking. It’s about the friends he was drinking with.
Pramit:
One of them asked me a very, very pointed question.
He said, look, you are still living in the past, you’re still chasing what you used to do earlier. He said, Look inside and tell me, what is it that you really want to do now?
That suddenly changed my position, you know, and that and then I opened up? I said, No, yeah, you’re right, you know, all that I’m not interested, you know, I really want to do this. And I actually had something, you know, I could actually tell them, but I was trying to keep it down.
TR:
Identifying the problem is one thing, but understanding why can really be helpful.
Pramit:
We are leading our lives based on what others around us think. Therefor you want to just do the acceptable thing.
Slowly I think I started accepting the fact that look, I don’t need to care whether somebody likes it or doesn’t like it. This is what I want to do.
TR:
Others like family, friends or colleagues in many instances.
But remember that beer with friends earlier?
— “Friends” Whodini!
Pramit:
Then we had another round, In fact, with a bigger set of friends, they called up more people. By that time, I had greater granularity, I said, Okay, this is what I really want to do. And then ideas started flowing. Nobody was being judgmental, nobody was trying to say, Oh, this is bad, this is good. They said, Okay, if this is what you want to do, let’s see how we can help.
TR:
Pramit began consulting, but on his terms.
Pramit:
Some of these guys then got me contacts. And then basically what I did was that rather than doing regular jobs, I said, I’ll go into consulting, but a very different way.
I will do it one day, two day, three day, whatever I feel comfortable with, I will go work inside a company, work with their team drive their team, and I will not give them a consultant’s report, but I will actually deliver for them, whatever results or whatever targets that they had in mind.
I was lucky because some of these guys were connected, they put me in touch with people
I started my first consulting work within 10 days. My confidence was back.
I knew that I am 95% as effective as I was earlier. And doesn’t matter because I was using screen reader effectively. And I mean, there were people around so once in a while, I couldn’t see an image so I can ask them. Okay, what is this image? Just tell me, right? I mean, you have to take help whenever you need to. Yeah, but then I was independent.
TR in Conversation with Pramit: 39:18
Wow, wow. How good did that feel?
Pramit:
See, it’s like a bird released out of a cage. And that cage was created by me by my mind around me, nobody else. I mean, I cannot blame anybody else. for it. It’s only you know, how my mind was processing it.
TR:
The impact of all that, went beyond work. He began traveling on the metro subway – which even further enhanced his confidence.
Enjoying his new found freedom and career, , pramit approached a potential client, the managing director of a large Venture Capital firm.
Pramit:
he knew that I am visually impaired. So he was very keen. He asked me, in fact, a lot of questions about what apps you’re using, how are they? Do they do the task for you? Where is the gap? And you know, it was almost like, you know, trying to assess a market? Yeah. And at the end of it, he said, Look, forget consulting, you are just wasting away your life.
Let’s build apps for visually impaired.
He said, I can see because I’ve been tracking this market for a while, and I have some personal interests. He was cited.
TR:
But Pramit was comfortably consulting and even booked some long term projects. Why leave that?
Pramit:
I had gone to meet an uncle who’s like, you know, very wise and old. He said something, he said, Look, if I look at it from a material perspective, I will tell you do not do the startup because it’s very risky right now, you are doing well in consulting stick to that. But he said at the same time, I will say one thing, there are very, very few people in the world who would leverage their disability, to do something that can help others with similar disability. He said, If you can do that, you know, and he said, I wouldn’t advise you, if you can do that. I mean, that’s something.
TR:
That really resonated with him.
Pramit:
Way back in 2009, early 2009, when suddenly, I joined quest diagnostics, and my blood sugar levels turned out to be very high, and had a family history of diabetics, I lost my father because of diabetes complications. And I knew that, you know, going on to insulin doesn’t really help because I’d seen him taking insulin injections, two times a day, from childhood. Something clicked and I just changed my lifestyle. And let me tell you, because I was on this whole corporate ladder trip,
I was leading a really bad lifestyle, lot of stress, very little sleeping a lot of junk food, because junk food gives you that instant energy, it makes you feel, you know, you got energy back and you’re you know, in control. Yeah. And I was overweight, obese, you know, not overweight. So I lost something like 20 kg.
TR:
About 44 pounds.
He shared his progress on YouTube ad free, by the way and he says he’s still contacted by people around the world in regards to his journey with Diabetes and weight loss.
Reframing the idea of developing apps from this perspective made a difference.
Pramit:
When I look at all my senior positions back then it doesn’t give me joy, honestly, you know, so that was when I said, Okay, I’m ready to do this startup.
It’s very easy to criticize the tools that are available around us, you may say, Oh, this is not good. This is not bad. This app doesn’t work. You know, it doesn’t work here. This gentleman who was in the venture capital company he said, Look, I’ve heard enough about this not being good, that not being good. Tell me what is good. define it for me. So next week, I want to see what is good.
TR:
Then one evening after hanging out with a friend, Pramit began to arrange for an Uber when his friend said something.
Pramit:
He said give me your smartphone. And let me book it for you.
There were all these options. I gave him a destination. I would say take this ride, take this, there’s so much fare this fine. I’ll pay by this method, and confirm and calling. So you know, that whole experience was so beautiful. What if I could create a virtual friend right there on the phone screen, which will do exactly similar kind of continuous conversation with me. It will do everything within an app, because my friend could have done anything, you know, including cancellation, including messaging. And that is how the thought for Louie was born
TR:
Concept in mind, it was time to test the effectiveness of both Siri and Google Assistant. What he realized is that what would become known as Louie, came out of a very specific idea.
Pramit
I can build something which can be just tailor made for a visually impaired, tailor made for a blind. Louie is keeping a blind person in mind. I think that’s the difference.
TR:
Exactly how to do that required answering a few questions.
Pramit:
Can I give just voice commands to Louie , can I control my favorite apps or key features on the phone?
Just by my voice commands and with the thought that I should be able to do each and everything and being in control all the time?
I think that was very important.
TR:
That constant control is crucial. You want to be assured that whenever you need to access the app whether for information or to provide detail it’s available.
Whether ordering an Uber while out on the town, contacting a friend via What’s APp or just chillin’ on your couch surfing YouTube.
Pramit:
You can manage your contact, edit, delete block so on, everything with just voice commands. You can call, text messaging and there’s a whole series of apps and pain points of visually impaired that we are working on.
Messenger on Facebook, Google search, basically being able to navigate around in a browser, being able to read articles, being able to read documents. Even simple things like these, like, for example, some of the visually impaired even have a problem receiving their calls, picking up their calls, disconnecting their call.
What I realized the aspirations of a visually impaired are no different from that of a sighted.
These two gentlemen said, Oh, food ordering, why don’t you do food ordering? E-commerce for example and with that two way continuous interaction which the voice assistant’s don’t provide.
TR:
Pramit believes Louie can do it.
— “You can do it Louie” —
In fact, others do too. Which is why they formed the company Visio Apps.
Pramit:
Currently, we have investors, both in India, as well as USA. And I think very importantly, I think one of our investors, which I think was really important for us, he was the Google India and Southeast Asia head. And he was in Google, at that time, when he invested in the company. He just felt that look, this is something great, I really want to be a part of. So I think that has really helped.
We have 14 people in the team. Apart from me, there are three more visually impaired, there are five people in technology who are cited. People in marketing. Visually impaired people are contributing significantly, both in testing as well as user experience.
It’s a small team, we have employee stock option plans, we’re all passionate about this cause.
TR:
Since the pandemic the team has been working remotely and it looks like that will continue.
Which means there are opportunities for developers worldwide. In fact, Pramit is interested in hearing from Blind developers especially those working in IOS and Java.
You’re probably already recognizing ways that this sort of an app can go beyond the Blind community which is great. But it’s Pramit’s response to that which really sums up the power of Louie to me.
Pramit:
I’m very clear that the focus will always be the use case of a blind person. And with the assumption that look, if it works for somebody who cannot see the screen, it should work, theoretically for anybody else.
TR:
I’ll have all the links to Louie and how to reach Pramit on this episodes blog post over on ReidMyMind.com.
Again, Louie is for Android users only right now, therefore understand I have not used this myself.
But I’m all about friends helping friends get through a challenging situation. Especially when we’re centering that Blind experience.
Pramit:
I’m everyday interacting with users, I like to speak to them. So my phone number, my WhatsApp number, you know, my email is like, freely available. to anybody, and I do get calls or you know, just out of the blue from a whole lot of visually impaired because that really helps.
Just talking to people one on one, understanding the challenges with the app. I’m just trying to make it better and better.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
So you’re telling me the CEO is the customer service?
Pramit:
Laughs… yes!
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
I officially welcome you into the Reid My Mind Radio family, Sir.
Your story is one that I think would be helpful for people adjusting to vision loss. I salute you in terms of where you’ve been, and
Pramit 1:13:59
no, no, not really. No, I’ve been a jerk I’ve been, as you can see,
If my experience can help I look at it that way.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
But I say that because I don’t think anybody can throw stones because we all have done something. But we all don’t admit it. So I’m not saluting your jerkiness, right? I’m saluting your openness and you sharing that that’s what I’m saluting and the fact that you recognize it. When I became blind and I became aware of inaccessible websites and whatnot. And I said to myself, Oh, my goodness, I built an inaccessible website before, because I didn’t know I didn’t know. So now I know. So it’s really like when you know, it really matters what you do, then. You know what I mean?
Pramit:
absolutely.
TR in Conversation with Pramit:
That’s what I salute, sir.
TR:
Our latest addition to the Reid My Mind Radio family just provided an incredible amount of insight and value to this conversation of adjusting to blindness and disability.
It’s worth reviewing and truly sitting with and thinking about the experiences he shared.
If you know of someone right now who is in the midst of such an adjustment, reach out and tell them about this episode, tell them about Louie.
Of course let them know they can subscribe to Reid My Mind Radio wherever they get podcasts!
Transcripts & more are over at ReidMyMind.com.
Now be a friend and say that with me…
R, to the E I D!
(Audio: “D and that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick)
Like my last name.
Audio: Reid My Mind Outro
Peace!
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Tags: Adaptations, Adjusting, Autobiography of A Yogi, Blind, Disability, Empathy, Engineer, India, Louie, Low Vision Posted in Access Technology, Accessibility, Audio, Blind Tech, Blindness, Productivity | Comments Off on The Power of Friends Talking: Pramit Bhargava, Louie and More
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Wednesday, October 21st, 2020
 Photo by Liz Moughon
Visual Artist, Writer and Poet Charles Curtis Blackwell, the subject of this year’s #Superfest2020 feature film God Given Talent shares stories of his life. We hear pivotal moments of influence including Jazz and school busing. Loss, Forgiveness, Purpose and of course Art!
His experience and approach to adjusting to vision loss is a must hear for anyone new to blindness. As evident in the episode, I too was inspired and hope this production, may I dare say, is a bit more artistic.
This episode is dedicated to the memory of one of my teachers; Sijo Abu Bakr. May We Remain!
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Resources
Transcript
Show the transcript
TR:
Audio: City soundscape merges into a nightclub atmosphere.
TR as on stage Host:
Greetings & Salutations brothers and sisters!
My name is Thomas Reid.
— Applause
Thank you, thank you very much!
Allow me to welcome you all to the Reid My Mind Lounge.!
— Jazz Music Begins
That’s right; today’s episode deserves an appropriate atmosphere.
I want you to sit back and really feel this one.
This was inspired. And y’all know I don’t use that word lightly.
Mr. Charles Curtis Blackwell is an artist. A visual artist, a writer, poet and definitely a story teller.
Where I come from, what he has to share, we call science or gems. Either way, he’s dropping it!
My hope is that you pick it up!
It all drops after the intro!
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Theme
TR:
Influence!
Music – Rahsan Roland Kirk, Volunteer Slavery
CC:
Have you ever heard of Rahsaan Roland Kirk?
Jazz horn player. He was more than that. Originally from Columbus but he wound up in Newark. He was totally Blind. He played three saxophones at the same time. He had them hooked together. He influenced a lot of Jazz musicians with this thing called circular breathing. In one nostril and out of the other. Their still blowing. You think they’re holding the note.
I caught him live before I lost my eyesight.
Kind of influenced me years later. I says ok well just do whatever.
Somebody said hey man how you do that? I’ve done some crazy stuff with the poetry. I just said hey man; I’m kind of like Rahsaan Roland Kirk you just got to get crazy on stage. Just go ahead you know get wild, you know (laughs)!
Music Begins… Jazz Track 9 from Charles Curtis Blackwell In Color
I liked Jazz at an early age. They crammed classical down our throats going from 6th grade to 7th grade. It was Mozart, Bach, Beethoven you know, so I got turned off. I tried to flunk the test. Wound up in music anyway. (Laughs) next semester I transferred back to art.
I was doing art before 5th grade. I remember the instructor she pointed out this drawing that I did. It had the whole class’s attention.
maybe because art it just came easy. I didn’t know I was taking it for granted.
Audio: Historic Radio News Broadcast
“the Supreme Court ruled in 1954, that pupils cannot be segregated by law on the basis of race.”
CC:
I was in a busing program. They bused us to this high school from this neighborhood in Sacramento. I was in 9th grade; I think I was around 13 or 14. They didn’t want us there.
The first day we got there, there were white folks with pickets. The end of the school year it turned into a racial riot; 14 people arrested one in the hospital and another one that was supposed to be in the hospital, he was Black, they arrested him instead, they didn’t send him to the hospital. One of the most scary days of my life. I was small man and I was scared man, these cats could fight.
My folks continued to make me go to the school. I didn’t really want to go. And it seemed like it wasn’t a day past some racial remark, I don’t know if you want me to mention those names on here you know. It really messed with me.
There was one incident. They had a policy; you could put the gloves on and have a boxing thing. Oh cool!
This guy kept messing with me. Shoving me into lockers, kicking me, but he always had his buddies with him. His name was Souza. He was a distance runner, He was up for championship.
This went from year to the next year. So I’m from the neighborhood, right. This year we had the same PE class. I told the coach I want to put the gloves on. The first coach his name was McFadden, he was ok. He spoke to me and said ok, we’ll call him in. I trusted McFadden. The other coach, he was a new coach. I didn’t know about him because he wasn’t there the day of the riot. The day of the riot the teachers, they weren’t breaking up the fights, they were yelling you damn Niggers! (Pause) These were teachers. You couldn’t trust nobody.
Coach called him.
Man I’m busy tucking my shirt in, tightening up my tennis shoes, I’m getting ready you know.
They say yegh Charles says that you’ve been harassing him, you did this and you did that.
No, no, no I didn’t!
The new coach he was sitting there, he jumped up and said you a such and such liar I saw you do it. Man, I was knocked off my feet.
They turned to Souza and said what is you ready? He says no, no I don’t want to…
I’m getting teed off. He don’t want to box with me. They say well do you want to apologize to Blackwell (laughs…). I ain’t want no apology. (Laughs…)
The dude apologized, the coach says ok Charles can you accept his apology. I did but I didn’t really want to. (Laughs….)
Audio: Sound of white school busing protests.
All this racism stuff and busing program stuff, I had poor self-esteem.
I was like a D student. My idea was like finish high school, get a job as a janitor and you know bang, that was it. I didn’t have no big aspirations.
I got into reading.
Audio: School bell ringing
We had to write like a newspaper article. And the way I learned how to write was from reading the San Francisco Chronicle. They had real good writers at that time. And so that’s how I kind of picked up on expository writing from reading the newspaper. I wrote an article for this class and you didn’t write this. Someone else wrote it. You know, this is not your style of writing, you didn’t write this. I got a low grade. I said eh whatever. Sometimes they give you a low grade realizing oh wow, what they’re really telling you is you got raw brute talent.
Music transition…
I used to sell the paper it was called the Sacramento Observer, it was a Black newspaper. William Lee, he was over the paper. So I called the paper and spoke to him and I said what if I write a story about these Black students graduating from this busing program. It wasn’t me it was the class ahead of me. They were graduating. He said yeh, write it and get it to us we’ll run it. I said ok. Paper comes out I open up the paper looked inside, looked on the back of the paper I said wow that’s funny they said they were going to run the article. So I called the newspaper, Secretary answered. I said yeh, this is Charles Blackwell, she says yes! I wrote this article they said they were going to run the article in the newspaper, she says yes. I said well I looked inside the paper and I didn’t see then I looked on the back of the paper and I didn’t see it. She said well did you look on the front page? (Laughing) I was knocked off my feet man! I never would have thought they would put the article on the front page. That was poor self-esteem. man I was just flabbergasted, I sold extra copies. I would go door to door selling the paper man, you know. (Laughs…)
Music Transition
I got to college my whole world started changing.
I was an art major. I was trained to do sketches. Funny, I was talking to you earlier about Rahsaan Roland Kirk. So I had a copy of Down Beat Magazine. We had to turn in a final drawing. Kind of like a shadow of the person you know it’s like super imposed, almost like shading. I did it with my 20/20 eyesight just looking at it and doing it. And the instructor said you used the Opaque projector that’s not right. I said no I didn’t use no Opaque projector; I just did it from a magazine. He downgraded me but he was telling me that’s how good my eyesight was.
TR:
Loss!
Audio: Sound of ocean waves continues with van driving…
CC:
I was staying in Santa Cruz for a little while. I was with some friends so we get in the van and go to the ocean. Stop at one place and we’d go further up. The waves were coming in. So they get out and they go down.
I’m in the van, I’m reading this book. A little while later I get out. I go down but I’m going the wrong way. I’m thinking this is the path. I made the mistake of allowing the terrain to half way carry me. There was this big rock, I was going fast and I said well I’ll just go jump and go over the rock. I was assuming it would be a slant. There was a cliff. I didn’t know.
— brief silence
Temporarily paralyzed on one side, concussion, internal bleeding. Broke one small bone. It was my finger. I don’t know how that happened.
Ah man, I just knew I was going to die.
By the grace of God here I am.
I was in the hospital for like a week, seven eight days, something like that. I don’t know man, next thing I know I’m up and going and I returned to my place in Santa Cruz. A few days later I headed back to Sacramento trying to regroup.
I got back in college a few months later.
Finished that semester. Christmas time man, we partied like crazy. I went to every party there was and the next thing you know I met this girl; I was in love man I wanted to get married.
Music – Cymbal crescendo followed by a cymbal crash and flute begins…
Track 6 from Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color
The unspeakable artist
Yearning, in and out of the room
If we sit in a dark room too long
We will meet the who
In the form of a tormented scream
Examining who we really are
Cymbal crash
CC:
I’m driving, I left college and I’m headed home and I remember I’m at this intersection and the horns are honking behind me and I had to turn. I barely made it.
Audio continues from Track 6 from Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color
Cymbal crash
And has fearless as we may be to ourselves
Those ghostly cries are all of us laid out in the dark
CC:
They’re doing all these tests, morning to night.
They call it an Edema – it’s where I hit and the fluid went to a state of rest and when it returned back into motion it left my macular pale. Macular Degeneration.
Audio continues from Track 6 from Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color
But if we stay in a dark room for so long we could see all the colors of the rainbow
Which reside on the other side where tombstones, grave sights pilferage and sorrows dwell.
CC:
They told me there’s nothing we can do. it all comes down to God. That was the end man, I just gave up.
I just dropped out of college. I didn’t go sign out or nothing.
Audio from Track 6 from Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color.
Magenta unwrapped, indigo unveiled and cobalt for all those chance given up when the soul gave chase to something of an eastern religion.
For residing in a dark room for so long can cause one to worship the form instead of the creator.
CC:
It was like what do we do to carry us through and it’s kind of bad but I was out drinking hook up with some friends get a beer. Somebody else would have some hard liquor. I was doing that too drinking wine.
Audio from Track 6 from Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color.
Many hales for the blood we fear running through our veins
Flowing upward like the Nile to our heads
In the dark room so sacred yet so cold the skin can’t breathe it
This tranquil rite of passage
Oh woman can you hear me in absence of gender
Nothing but flesh crawling in the dark
Solitary confinement
CC:
The worse thing I think I did, I didn’t know how to be… (Phone connection failing…)
Can you hear me any better? 1, 2, 3… that’s better?
Ok, I’ll turn around then …
I was raised southern family, my folks from Mississippi.
The idea, if you’re going to be with this person you going to be married, you gotta be able to provide. You got to be this man. The male role.
It ain’t about the male role, the macho, the strong…
So that was a big mistake I made trying to push her away, put her at a distance. I was 20. We get taught certain things but we realize that’s not going to help you in terms of dealing with life.
All I remember man was being in the bedroom and crying day in and day out. I would never tell her that’s what I was doing, which was really bad
When life hits in such a manner what do you got to hold onto. Faith and trying to trust God and trying to believe.
Audio Cymbal crash
Might be somebody there that could help you build (hope) and (encourage you to live).
(Each emphasized with echo audio effect…)
Audio: Subway train on tracks
CC:
Wound up at some friends. They were having a pool party at some apartment complex.
Audio: Train comes to screeching stop.
Audio from Track1 Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color
Pre De Term Mind! Mind! Pre Det term Mind!
CC:
I wound up sleeping at one person’s house, another house.
Had a fight with my Dad, he snatched the phone. I was a psychological mess.
This friend, his name was Ken, we had met on a bus. And we were talking, we discovered we were both born on the same day. He came and visited me while I lost my eye sight. He was from the Santa Cruz area.
It was getting to the point where I really got depressed. I mean real, real serious depressed. And then I just kind of disappeared. Nobody knew where I was. I wound up at the bus station. I went on to Santa Cruz and caught up with ken. I started a fight with the landlord. I was going crazy! I didn’t want to pay no rent. (Laughs) Really wasn’t going to make no sense.
I wound up sleeping on the beach. I got a cheap room at a hotel. Something like six dollars a night. I think I only had a hundred.
I would hang out at this book store and listen to people talking.
I was standing on the corner, people came by and said hey brother, do you know anything about Jesus. I says yeh, God and Jesus I know, what I need right now is food, shelter and clothing. And they said brother we got food, shelter and clothing. I said what? It was a Christian Commune. So I went and stayed with them.
They had me on the laundry detail. They had a second hand store. I was with this other guy, the only other brother and we would go and pickup refrigerators and stoves and other stuff. When I look back on it things moved kind of fast. January I’m losing my sight and going bizerk in the head, the crying and everything. Around August I had disappeared . The early part of September I wound up with this commune. From September til about January I had returned back to my folks in Sacramento.
It got me back into the swing of things not feeling like I’m going to be an invalid for the rest of my life.
Audio from Track1 Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color
Y’all gonna hear from me… someday!
An older Smokey voice off mic repeats
Y’all gonna hear from me… someday!
But the Blue line escapes all the mental anguish, mental breakdown of knots tied up inside.
(fades out)
Music – Curtis Mayfield Back to the World
CC:
Curtis Mayfield had this song called Back to the World.
I leave the commune and now I’m back in the world. The world is not the same as the commune. People there are kind of helpful and everything. Now I’m back in the world and I didn’t know what to do.
Even though I got back into the swing of things I hadn’t really adjusted all the way.
Signed up with Voc Rehab. They ask if you need a cane. I use a cane now but at first I didn’t. There main thing was trying to make a person productive in terms of society, getting a job, being trained for some kind of work situation. Then they had another part of going to college.
It was the social worker. She was with the welfare department at that time. She was this white lady and her isms started coming out. I made the mistake of when I left town, disappeared, I was 21, I got a beer. I called her of all people, I said I’m not going to be here, I’m gone. Where you going? Well I’m busy drinking a beer. I was dismantled anyway. Some people they don’t understand that because there all emphasis is like get you ready to be productive in society. Well how you going to be productive when inside, you’re a wreck. They don’t comprehend it. She’s saying uh, last time I spoke to Charles he was busy getting drunk on the phone and he was going to do this, this and this. And I was just sitting there , I know it was God. I just sat there and let her run off at the mouth. Huh!
“Words that have meaning” – CC with Ambient effect
Then the guy from Voc Rehab, well you really don’t seem like you know what you want to do in life. And I said oh, ok. I was just agreeing because I was in a different place spiritually. A little time past and I called him and said hey I think I want to go to college.
If you can get me two C’s we’ll fund you to go to college. So I did summer school and got two B’s but I was trying to get two A’s.
They always shifted me, changed, got a different guy for Voc. Rehab. This guy was totally Blind, ok? Man, I go in to meet with the dude and we’re talking. I’m saying oh, this is going to be ok because he’s totally Blind, he can relate to my situation, being partly Blind you know. We’re sitting there talking for over an hour. He’s interviewing me and at the very end of the interview he says ok, boy!
Man he did it in such a manner, I was just shocked.
“Words can help you be empowered!” – CC with Ambient effect
My Dad wasn’t the best communicator. I got back home, I was angry. My Dad was waxing the car. My Dad had a Cadillac (laughs). Picked up a rag, what the heck wax the car, maybe that will help me. I told him what had happened and my Dad, like I said, he wasn’t a real good communicator but this was one time he said something.
He said, he’s testing you.
He’s testing me?
Yeh, he’s testing you.
And that’s all my Dad said.
I milked that counselor like crazy. every time they had something to offer I grabbed it. So we had to bring our grades in, well it looks like you got some A’s here and you got a B and an A and another A . He says well, what kind of help do you need? Well, we got cassette recorders and do you need more reader service, I says oh yeh, oh yeh!
I get out of college and I could have changed counselors but I’m like no I’m gonna stay with this dude because I know what’ he’s like. He was testing me and I’m reading him.
I get out, well congratulations Charles. You can’t go to graduate school, we don’t have no money. We got a training program here.
You could have a cafeteria in a federal building.
I went to Montana, I went to Seattle, Los Angeles trying to get a job. Couldn’t get a job. The reality hit me, being partly Blind, ain’t no opportunities. I signed up!
When almost two weeks or a month we’re sitting at this table. This white dude is sitting next to me. He’s much older than me. He was losing his eyesight. This other guy’s across from me, he was Mexican, fresh out of Soledad prison, but he was in the program too. The guy in charge of the program it was his cafeteria, the guy comes up and says Charlie my boy, you talk back to my employees you can’t remain here you understand that. And I said yes! Just automatically. The white dude sitting next to me said that was F’d up. He was in his 40’s. You know something was wrong. The Mexican fresh out of Soledad said Charles are you ok?
I come back to the world, I’m being all well love one another be real open, be kind to people. This is the racism of America. Even though I may change the world hadn’t changed. I had to deal with it some kind of way. That’s the horror of this country. This is it, this is what’s on the table.
The next day man, I scared the slop out of that man. I threatened that man like crazy man. (laugh) They called a meeting with another state official. The man had me, the guy I had threatened.
Alright Charles, he says he’s scared to be around you. Well just what the F do you want.
“Words that can help you be inspired” – CC with Ambient effect
I came up during the 60’s man. I was involved in the Black student Union, we got 9 out of 10 demands for Black Studies and here this joker gonna do something racist like this.
You know how we learn from people. My mind went back to this brother, his name was Amyl Palmer, he was head of the Black Student Union. The brother could deal, he was way older than me. I leaned back and said what you got to offer?
You want to go to graduate school? I said that sounds workable. (Laughs) So I went to grad school. (Laughs)
CC:
A buddy of mine wrote a poem. I like real conversations.
Real conversations can really help you in life. What is it that helped me, you know, having real conversations like words that have meaning. Words can help you be empowered. Words that can help you be inspired.
Music Begins…
CC:
You gotta deal with the race and then you got to deal with people’s ignorance toward disability even with Black folks.
You think they’re going to relate to your blindness.
You might know, Berkley is where the center for independent living started. They were filing law suits way back in the 70’s. You could be in Berkley it could be a totally different story as opposed to being in Oakland. You get to Oakland, you get people like; Hey, is you blind? (Laughs…) I’ll be waiting for a bus. Hey I’m trying to catch the bus … it’s right there don’t you see the sign? And I’m carrying a cane now. You try to say ok, let it teach me something, try to just grin and bear it, but if you’re trying to hurry up and get somewhere. Let’s say there’s two people at the bus stop. I ask somebody and they say something ridiculous like it’s right there just look at it. I just turn to the next person and say, excuse me can you tell me which bus… and they tell me. And then the other person goes, oh hey I didn’t know you blind. I just walk off and leave them alone. I do them cold but it’s like what can I say to the person?
Every once in a while a person says oh excuse me I’m very sorry. Ok, cool.
I walked in a business before, with a cane, I’m trying to figure out why are they paying so much attention to me but it’s not a friendly attention it’s almost like do they think I’m going to steal something.
One of the worse things I got … I got off a bus one day and the dude said yeh, man, you got that game down, carrying that cane pretending to be Blind. I had some cuss words, I didn’t say them out loud cause it was night time and I ain’t ready for no fight. It’s kind of what they call the Pre Antebellum South the days before Helen Keller. A lot of this society is still like that.
I’m a church going brother. I remember I was at this church a little over a year ago, this friend named Joyce and Leo, hey Charles we’re going to this other church, come on and go, I said ok. I’m sitting there participating in the worship and then the minister calls someone here need to accept Jesus. And this lady is sitting behind me, she ain’t said nothing to me, she hasn’t given me a friendly greeting or nothing. She poked me on my shoulder , you can go up now and accept Jesus. (Laughs) I’ve been sitting there participating in the service and it’s like, no communication she just automatically assumed oh you Blind you need Jesus.
Sometimes there are store front churches and then there’s a good ol’ store front church That kind of backward condemning. maybe the reason you lost your eyesight is because you did something bad. You sinned. God is punishing you. If a person is just losing their eyesight and a person comes along and tells him something like that, oh God man, they’re condemned to hell. It could take them years to get out of that.
I remember this lady, it was Kay Stewart she setup a program for the Blind students at the college. And she was very hip. White lady from Texas. A very, very nice lady. A matter of fact she knew the racist counselor at Voc. Rehab. She wasn’t too fond of him. She was always whatever I can do to help you here at the college, knowing you weren’t going to get all the help you needed from Voc. Rehab. So she would do these cultural programs. When I finished college she got in touch with me and she asked me to go on this outing. She wanted me to talk to this guy, a white guy, he was just losing his eyesight. He was condemning himself, you know, God this and God that. I said hey man that’s not it God is not a condemning God. You got to find out about the love of God.
I had a real good family doctor and he would talk to you. Not like today, they’re running you through like a number. He said you lost your eyesight, take your defect and use it as your asset. Man, that was a strong piece of wisdom. And I passed that on to this other guy.
You find Blind people man, they know the Bible, backwards forward, sideways and down. But do they know how to get out of that condemning. Do they know how to get to that place of being and inspiration to someone else and being inspired and being (forgiving.)
(Emphasized with a slight echo effect)
CC:
I used to listen to Martin Luther King and James Farmer, Fannie Lou Hamer you know.
I’m in college, when I could see good, I’m sitting in front of the library one day reading an article and a dude came up and sat down. It was Souza. And he apologized to me. And I’m looking at him like what. I don’t know whether to listen to him or grab him. He said that he was dating this girl that was Asian and she confronted him. He realized it was his father that instilled all this racism in him. And I was listening and I said wow man!
It was like a Martin Luther King story man.
This time it was real.
Audio Bridge
One of the greatest lessons I learned man, the minister told me, he said, “Never be ashamed to apologize. Be it 8 to 80.”
The lady that I pushed away, it was fourteen years later.
I called her I said, I just want to apologize. She said no you don’t owe me no apology. I says well hey everything in my life is falling apart, I was in a writing project and it collapsed, nothing’s going right and I’m trying to get my life right with God. So I just want to tell you that I’m very sorry I did what I did to you.
I heard her crying on the other end of the phone and I realized I did the right thing.
I realized that I hurt her and I didn’t know I did.
When we apologize it’s like something spiritual takes place on the inside. When we forgive something happens on the inside in a good way.
TR:
Purpose!
CC:
I went to the college with my cousin Anita and I just went over to hang out. So I ran into the friend she used to be a neighbor, her name was Pat. She was much older than me. “Hey Charles, I heard you lost your eyesight.” I says yeh. She was you know very courteous, she knew me. “Come go to class with me.” So I went to a class with her and it was African American Literature. Eugene Redmond was the instructor. He was saying some stuff that caught my attention. I still remember he was presenting this book called “Black Suicides”. I was listening because I was at that point a year before because I had lost my eyesight. By the grace of God it didn’t happen. Black people they say we don’t do this, but here’s a book called “Black Suicides.”. We don’t do it when in fact we do. I says oh wow, this cat is saying something.
“Graduate school!” – CC with Ambient effect
One of the best things I did is sign up , it was an independent study with Eugene Redmond. He was also the editor of the Henry Dumas collection. I don’t know if you heard of Henry Dumas, but Henry Dumas did this poem I still remember;
America!
If an eagle be imprisoned on the back of a coin and that coin is tossed into the sky
That coin may dwindle, that coin may spindle, but that eagle will never fly.
Henry Dumas was shot and killed by a New York subway cop.
Redmond became the editor of the collection. Redmond did a book called Drum Voices. It’s the history and development of African American poets going all the way back to slavery and coming on up to Hakim Muributu, Sonia Sanchez, Amir Baraka. He was always an encouragement and I got an A.
Years later I was having dinner with this brother he was a political person in Sacramento, Grandin Johnson, trying to push for affirmative action years ago. So he had brought Eugene Redmond to the college for a part of Black Studies. I told him yeh, Redmond, I took a class with him and he gave me an A. He looked at me and he said; (pause) Redmond, didn’t give out A’s. If you got an A man you must have been producing some serious work. I kind of hung my head and said well he liked my work. He said I’m telling you he didn’t give out A’s. You had to work to get an A. He really dropped a bomb on me.
I kept in touch with Eugene Redmond, he’s published me about six different times in Drum Voices Review and some other publications too.
Music begins… Slow piano riff moves into a cool Hip Hop groove.
I realized ok, God gave me this talent and with this talent he’s kind of helped raise me up from that bed of poor self-esteem. Lift me up and encouraged me and inspired me. And I have to take care of this talent. I have to nourish it, be kind to it, treat it right and try to use it.
I’m at this place now it’s called Youth Spirit Artworks in Berkley, working with homeless young adults in high school. I try to use stuff like ok, let’s write about the last time someone said to you I love you. The last time you were angry and you felt like you wanted to kill somebody. How you see the situation where the guy is beaten to death on the street and the cop put his knee on his neck. Let’s write about that. Let’s write about mercy. What does it mean for you to be merciful to someone else . And I’m trying to use writing to confront.
I really embrace the Black Live Matter because we fought for the demands for Black Studies apparently somebody was listening.
Audio: Prison door slams and continues with ambient sound of a prison.
I used to do writer’s workshops in prisons and I’d go in and try to be an inspiration and encouragement to those people locked up behind bars with this talent that God gave me.
I did a presentation at Folsom prison and this inmate he wasn’t sitting with his back to the wall. You had to pay attention to that. Other people sitting at the table. It might have been ten people. This one guy when it was over turned out he was a point man in Vietnam and he wiped out a whole family drunk. If it hadn’t been for Vietnam he wouldn’t have did what he did.
He says hey can I ask you a question? I said yeh, go right ahead. He says when you lost your eyesight did you lose your will to live?
Man, I was shocked by that question. I really didn’t want to answer his question, but you deal with inmates they’ll be real with you so it’s best to be real with them. It’ll protect you. I said yeh, I lost my will to live. He says hey brother, he took my hand and said I’m glad you made that decision to live because you’ve really been an inspiration here today. Man, that dude gave me a PhD.(Laughs) He stamped it on my forehead
I got to be like I said, an inspiration, encouragement. Be it if I’m at a prison, at a school, wherever it is try to take this talent, try to inspire, encourage someone to live.
Music ends
TR:
Art!
I started off being trained to do a sketch of you in a minute and a half. Hand and eye.
I can’t do that anymore. I can’t set something in front of me draw it make it look like realism. That’s out!
I had to take a different approach. When I got back into art I was a Sacramento County CETA Artist. CETA program that’s the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act, Jimmy Carter was president.
I was doing stuff that I knew from college because I had been out of art for about seven or eight years.
I did these large carrots, seven foot carrots (laughs). These were paintings. The middle of the carrot had another piece of canvas sewed on it was blue, called “This Carrot Got the Blues.”
I did these large pieces, I took styro foam balls and I stuffed them with Latex paint and then I painted a jet seal over that. It was Braille dots on canvas, it said “Do Not Touch”. And then another one said (laughing) “Read this with left hand only”
I was doing stuff that was workable for my blindness.
Music – Jazz drummer sol – off beat groove Track 9, Charles Curtis Blackwell, In Color
Allen Gordon he was the head of the Art department at one time at Cal State Sacramento. He introduced me to the NCA a group of Black artists from around the country. National Conference of Artists, Margaret Burrows out of Chicago, but even before that time he says oh you’re doing some African art. I says I ain’t took no classes. He said, it’s in you; line, shape, color, rhythm movement. I says oh wow! I’ve been doing more and more of that.
I cover the paper with oil pastels and then I come over it with water down acrylics doing line drawings of African masks on paper. or maybe drummers or jazz musicians on paper. Then I started doing African sculptures playing saxophones or playing a flute, playing a bass. African dancers. Using my blindness and doing abstracts. It might look like a Jazz drummer, a horn player, a dancer with all this abstract stuff you know,
line shape, rhythm color, movement. (Delayed effect on the groove of the beat.)
I’m using my blindness to create the art piece and get to my own originality.
Music ends!
I use my blindness in terms of writing. It’s not what you say, it’s what you don’t say.
Sometime I’m producing art, well I’ll stop and I’ll do some writing. So in a sense the art is influencing the writing.
I produce some writing, well let me set this down and I’ll produce some art. So the writing is influencing the art. Inspiring on the inside- give me some encouragement and inspiration.
I get tired of that well, I’ll go out here and catch a performance, theater play some jazz. I’ll go to an art gallery and see what they’re doing or go catch some poets. I might even sit there and don’t say nothing . I don’t even want to read I just want to you know listen to other people. Right now it ain’t happening. Truthfully I I’ve gotten depressed. Five months I’ve only finished one piece. I started about nine others and finished one. That ain’t saying nothing. I’m usually producing anywhere from one to three pieces a week. So that tells you this thing has hit me in such a manner and all I could do is relate to other people when they’re saying the same thing, feeling uninspired. It’s hard it’s really hard to deal with and I wish I knew some answers. Even I try to get to the spiritual place man I’m blocked on that too. I don’t know maybe you , hey you got some ideas tell me. (Laughs)
The sad part about it is I don’t have a computer and I use visual tech that enlarges print. And I spend a lot of time on that writing. In some ways I wish I had the hook up with the computer but I think I’d be lost.
I don’t take pride in it but I’m computer ignorant and I know I’m ignorant when you get one of these little five or six year olds in here and they know how to hit all the buttons and get everything just right. (Laughs) I know I’m out of the loop.
“Whatever you can do to drum up hope, do it!” – CC with Ambient effect
Music begins.
I never would have dreamed I’d be doing what I’m doing.
I’ve been published, locally nationally and internationally. I’ve had my artwork shown. Some people have my artwork in foreign countries. I’ve had theater plays produced.
Like my Grandmother used to say she said the Lord works in mysterious ways and has wonders to be performed. Maybe that would be my story. I look back on it I’m baffled.
I remember a lady was gonna date me, oh he ain’t got no job, he’s not doing this, he can’t do this. Somebody else said,
Music pauses
apparently you don’t know the brother. ..
My name is Charles Curtis Blackwell!
TR:
Well, it’s a privilege and honor to say Mr. Charles Curtis Blackwell,
It’s official! you Sir are a part of the Reid My Mind Radio family.
Music begins.
While Mr. Blackwell does not have a computer, he does have a Facebook page at Charles Curtis Blackwell. I’ll link to it on this episodes blog post.
I don’t know about you but I’ve been inspired. He said, his art influences his writing and his writing influences his art. That resonates with me. Inspiration from within.
If you’ve been inspired I hope you will let that influence you…
Subscribe wherever you get podcasts!
Transcripts & more are over at ReidMyMind.com. And yes, that’s R to the E I D
(Audio: “D and that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick)
Like my last name.
Audio: Reid My Mind Outro
CC:
“Laughs, I was knocked off my feet man!”
TR:
Peace!
Hide the transcript
Tags: Adjusting, African American, Art, Black, Blind, Busing, Encouragement, Forgiveness, Inspiration, Jazz, Low Vision, Macular Degeneration, Poetry, Racism, Vocational Rehabilitation, Writer Posted in African American, Audio, Black History, Blindness, PWD, Visually Impaired | Comments Off on Charles Curtis Blackwell – Words of Meaning Empowerment & Inspiration
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Wednesday, May 20th, 2020
Today, everyone is talking about a new normal. Those adjusting to blindness or disability in general, have a lot of experience in this way of thinking.
As disability impacts the entire family unit or team, I invited my wife Marlett on the podcast to discuss the topic. The result? Advice on managing those inevitable uncomfortable public encounters, accepting change and even how Tick Tock can help during this pandemic. Well, sort of…
Our discussion is actually a sneak peak into an upcoming episode with Dr. Mona Minkara and her production team from Planes Trains & Canes.
Take a listen to this episode and then check out the documentary series before you meet them all here on the podcast.
Listen
Transcript
Show the transcript
Audio: Sounds of microphones being touched…
Marlett:
I am not touching the microphone or the stand.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Do you see me touching the microphone?
(Long Pause)
And I’m a professional! (Laughs…)
Marlett:
You heard my feet.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
What?
Marlett:
you heard my feet, I did this…
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Oh, don’t do that.
Marlett:
Ok!
TR:
What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family! My name is Thomas Reid. I’m the producer and host of this podcast, bringing you compelling people impacted by all degrees of vision loss from low vision to total blindness.
Every now and then, when inspired, I bring you stories from my own experience as a man adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult.
If you are newly impacted by blindness and you found the podcast, first of all welcome. Secondly, I think you’re going to like it here.
Today’s episode does include my wife Marlett. Ever since the last episode titled Celebrating 15 years of being Blind, I received some feedback from people who enjoyed hearing from her. I made the mistake of letting her know that. As you’ll see here today, it may have went to her head.
Despite that, I asked her on because, well, I’m a great husband.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Intro
TR:
Let me start this off with a warm virtual hug for you all. It feels like every day the idea of normal is pushed further and further. What we would have expected and accepted seems to be a continuous slide in the wrong direction. Specifically,
putting kids in cages, the death of 80 thousand people in two months or racists shooting an innocent young Black man.
Our responsibility, is not to accept it. not to simply act like it is normal.
On this podcast, I don’t often go into politics or current affairs except when I feel it relates to the process of adjusting to blindness. These connections are from my perspective. It’s called Reid My Mind Radio after all.
So when is a good time to accept a new normal?
Right now, just about everyone on this planet is dealing with a new normal. Although we’re all experiencing this pandemic differently, we’re doing it together.
There’s a similar feeling around acquiring a Disability. Now, I’m referring to all of those impacted; parent, child or spouse for example.
Similar feelings but there are some real differences between what is being felt during the pandemic and the experience of disability. For one, the entire world isn’t analyzing it on every news channel. There aren’t easy ways to gain multiple perspectives. It’s more likely something the family goes through alone. Hopefully it’s a real opportunity for that family to become a unit a real team.
I’m on this journey with you so I get it. And so does my wife, Marlett. I invited her on the show to get that team perspective from someone impacted by blindness.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
What I noticed from the last time is that if I ask you to introduce yourself you have a big production necessary for the intro and I don’t think I’m going to do that this time. Laughing…
Marlett:
Ok!
Audio: Intro from Celebrating …
Audio: “The Baddest Chick”, Trina
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Can you please just state your name for the record?
Marlett:
Marlett Reid
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
And who are you?
Marlett:
I’m the baddest chick!
Audio: As the music gets louder …
Marlett:
I’m your wife!
The music continues.
Now back in the present.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing… You want to introduce yourself anyway?
Marlett:
My name is Marlett Reid, currently writing a book so it’s going to be M.E. Reid.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing… you’re here to promote your book? Laughing…
Marlett:
Laughing…
TR:
Ok, when my wife does publish her book, I’m not only buying a bunch for the RMM Radio family, but she’s definitely coming on the podcast. And that I tell you right now, will be the best episode I ever produce!
It’s not always the case, but Marlett and I shared some perspective around this idea of finding the new normal.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
When your life is uprooted because that’s what everybody kind of is really saying…
Marlett:
Right, right.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
And then now you have to start to see what is going to be the new normal. And I’m saying that we’ve …
Marlett:
Yeh, we’ve been there.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
The difference to me is that while we were doing that everyone was still living their normal. It felt like we were the only ones doing that because it was just impacting us and our family. Do you see any parallels between what we’ve been through and what’s going on right now?
Marlett:
Nothing new to us. Trying to figure out what to do coming up with new ideas of entertaining the family. Picnics in the living room or family night movies.
Social distancing, that’s funny to me because no one really came around We understood about social distancing people were doing that to us for quite some time. Distancing themselves from us.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Damn!
Marlett:
Well it’s true.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Mm Hmm… (In agreement)
Marlett:
They were distancing themselves. If we went to a party they did social distancing there too.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughs…
Marlett:
We would be in a corner or we’d be in one side and they’d be on another side. They just didn’t have a mask.
TR:
At least not one that was visible.
Audio: Plane taking off…
At the time of this conversation, I was in the process of producing what will be the next episode of the podcast featuring Mona Minkara and her Planes Trains and Canes production team.
The documentary series which can be found on YouTube follows Mona who is Blind, on a journey to 5 different cities around the world where she travels alone using public transportation.
I’m encouraging you to check out the series which I’ll link to on ReidMyMind.com.
I was curious to see what if any parallels Marlett would draw after an explanation of the documentary’s concept.
That is the resulting encounters a Blind woman receives as she’s recorded on video while traveling through an airport or subway.
Marlett’s perspective wasn’t what I expected, but it’s definitely understandable how she got there.
Marlett:
It made me think of African Americans, really. When they try to navigate or go through life, how people treat them.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Them? Are you Black?
Marlett:
How people treat us!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughs…
Marlett:
Walking into a bank or walking into a store or walking in a neighborhood.
Audio: YouTube…
“No Justice No Peace!” (Repeats while clips from a news reporter plays…)
“Arrests in the shooting death of a jogger in a Brunswick neighborhood for killing Amaud Aubry. The charges; murder and aggravated assault”
TR:
Perspective matters!
This conversation was on the heels of this latest senseless racist murder of Amaud Aubrey.
(Pause)
When it comes to adjusting to blindness, Marlett and my family are O.G’s in this game!
Marlett:
We have our thing down. We already know what’s going on like I know people talk to me instead of you and I know how I handle that.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Alright so give me an example of that.
Marlett:
If we go, anywhere you have to do something, they’ll talk to me.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
If somebody asked you for an example of that, is there any specific one that you would give. I’m curious to see if it’s the same one.
Marlett:
We went to go vote.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Oh my gosh!
Marlett:
The woman said you can bring him over here or something, you can correct me if I’m wrong but something to that affect. You spoke up. You said whatever it is that you wanted to say.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I don’t know if I said something or whatever? I probably said something…
Like oh you could talk to me. That’s probably what I said. So it wasn’t until after I got out …
Marlett:
And she said, I shouldn’t have done that. I liked her apology and it was to you. I don’t think she ever did that again.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
You’re right so we’re good. Like we’re real good. Like I say hello she says hello and it’s cool. It’s all good. That was a nice interaction because it came out where she got it like immediately.
Do you remember the first time. You might have not noticed it even happened the first time.
Marlett:
Maybe like the first time it happened I didn’t really think about it. Maybe about the third or fourth time I probably thought about it more. I think you and I spoke about it. You knew it was taking place and so you would just speak up real quick but then I think after we talked about it and I was like well I’m not going to say anything , you can just take your time in answering not just jump in there.
TR:
Y’all hear my wife’s way of trying to tell me to chill. That’s cute right! I know it’s because she doesn’t want me to be upset, but ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.
I know I shouldn’t take things personally, but having someone talk around me while I’m standing right there? Remember, I said there are things we should never accept as normal, this is one of them. My recommendation?
Marlett:
You would speak on it or be vocal about how it made you feel, but not like it caused tension between us.
I never answer for you. I won’t answer for you. I will walk away or I’ll turn and look at you for you to respond or I will look at my phone.
TR:
Marlett is so great with these situations now that Every time this happens , I almost feel sorry for the perpetrator. I can feel their confusion. If I am feeling let’s just say a bit feisty, I’ll let them hold onto their confusion and embarrassment for a little while. You brought it out, you hold it! It works, they get it.
It’s a cool play that Marlett and I execute well together.
Marlett:
We still have hiccups.
In the beginning it was a lot of hiccups there because you were used to taking the bags and just going. Boom!
What works best for us when we travel is if we discuss it beforehand. When we freestyle we generally tend to have some hiccups.
TR:
Now first of all did you notice how Marlett made it sound like I was the cause – as in, you were used to taking the bags and going.
Marlett:
Boom!
TR:
She’s right! But truthfully we were both used to that.
She’s also right in the need for us to all be on the same page. Communicate the plan before trying to execute.
On this team, we each have to play our role at any given time.
Our roster includes two more players – our girls.
Marlett:
When they were little that was a little harder. Usually they walked in front of us Riana would hold her sister’s hand and they would walk in front of us. Sometimes behind us and I would glance back occasionally just to make sure they were still with us.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I remember that was a thing because I would always ask you where the girls? (_Laughs…)
Marlett:
Yeh!
TR:
They’re 16 & 22 now. Amazingly, Marlett is still hovering around 32.
Traveling with them today?
Marlett:
The girls leave us!
They’ll make sure that we don’t have anything to hold us up. All we have to do is to get where we have to go. They’re more intoned to what works to get us to where we need to go. Like when we went on the cruise, they took the bags.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I had a bag.
Marlett:
You wouldn’t give up your bag.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I know, yeh, I’m not giving up my bag.
Marlett:
You’re not going to give up your bag that easily. You still got that machismo.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Oh, wait we’re gonna go there? You think that’s machismo? That’s alright, I don’t have to go into that because you’re wrong and I don’t want them to be all like oh my goodness Marlett we don’t like her anymore.
Marlett:
Some weird laugh that basically translates to whatever! Ok!
TR:
Ok, despite my lovely wife’s incorrect assessment that I have even an ounce of machismo, her lessons here can be helpful no matter who makes up your team.
For example, producing Planes Trains and Canes requires a real team effort. You can hear all about that in the next episode of this podcast.
Before that episode drops on June 2, go check out Planes Trains & Canes. It’s not necessarily a pre-requisite but we do dance around some specific scenes from the documentary series.
I’m also curious to see if we see similar parallels between the show and adjusting to blindness.
Marlett:
I feel like if you’re traveling with someone who is Blind , you two should have a conversation. What makes each one comfortable?
In the beginning when this all happened I was I think in my feelings. I don’t think I really thought about you or me but more so how everybody else was looking at us. Once I got over that part, which I’m not fully over it, but for the most part I am; we work better!
TR:
Adjusting to blindness is not really a place you arrive but rather an ongoing journey. You either decide to take it or find yourself well not really going anywhere.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
What would you say goes into being able to accept a new normal?
Marlett:
Understanding you can’t change anything so you got to make it work for you. You know the pandemic came around, there’s nothing we can do about it, there’s no cure. The only thing at this point is you got to stay away from people so that is going to be our new normal. Handle it! Things always change that’s life. Nothing ever stays the same, you got to change with the times.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
… That’s real talk!
It doesn’t sound like you’re very compassionate about it . Like I thought you might be a little more compassionate.
Marlett:
I am being compassionate. I’m telling you the truth. I’m trying to get you to get over it quickly. Pull off the Band-Aid. It is what it is. I could hold your hand and we can go through it but…
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
See I don’t understand why you can do that but when I do that you’re like (mockingly) Tommy! (Laughs) ]
I’m just going to put this out there because I try to tell everyone I’m the compassionate one in the family.
Marlett:
Exhales… Uh Lord!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
And I think I just got proof of that. It’s definitely evidence.
Marlett:
I realized one thing about this pandemic, this whole thing with the Tick Tock.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Oh God! Laughing…
Marlett:
But wait a minute. This whole thing with the Tick Tock!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Hold up, hold up, hold up! I don’t know if everybody knows Tick Tock.
Marlett:
Well Tick Tock is this app where the older generations are dominating this app. I think a lot of people know about Tick Tock. But the great thing about Tick Tock is that…
Audio: Marlett continues with volume lowered….
TR:
Reid My Mind Radio Family, I need your help. I think my wife has an addiction to Tick Tock. If you don’t know, it’s a pretty popular app now that was pre-pandemic considered for the kids. It enables quick short videos often consisting of lip singing or short dance routines.
I’m going to spare you as she tries to rationalize her obsession with claims of this app building bridges.
I’m not saying it’s not true, because honestly, I don’t really use the app. the majority of the content that I’ve come across is predominantly visual and audio description is not an option.
Even the killer content I made with my youngest Raven, a highly sophisticated and intricate dance routine, had no way of including description.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Yo whose the Tick Tock Killa?
Marlett:
That would be you Thomas. (Said very sarcastically!)
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
That’s me, the Tick Tock Killa!
I think you only like Tick Tock because you like to say Tick Tock. I think that’s why this app is actually doing so well because people like to say Tick Tock.
Marlett:
Tick, Tock!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I should have named my podcast Tick Tock and I probably have a whole lot more people listening and subscribing, you know what I’m saying?
Marlett:
I don’t know maybe you’re right. I do like Tick Tock. Yeah!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I ask people to subscribe…
Marlett:
It’s the way you ask people… (she fades her own voice out)
It’s the way you do it! You have to ask…
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Wait up, first of all how do I do it? That it’s the way I do it.
Marlett:
I don’t know how you do it, but it’s not the right way. I’m just saying it’s probably not the right way.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
How can you say it’s the wrong way. Oh my God! (Laughing hysterically)
Marlett:
So I’m going to ask everybody to subscribe. And leave me a little heart emoji or a smile or say hi Marlett. (Spelled out)
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Where are they going to do that?
Marlett:
At ReidMyMind.
my content
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Dot com you’re talking about? You want them to subscribe and leave a comment on the episode page?
Marlett:
Yeh!… Yeh!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Now I’m gonna tell you right now…
Marlett:
Yeh! I would like everybody to say hi. I would love it. I feel that energy it would just make me so happy. Just, just tell me hi!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Long pause…
Do you know how many times I ask people to subscribe, to reach out?
Marlett:
And Subscribe…
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I give the phone number. I get some people, but you think you’re going to get…. (Laughs…)
Marlett:
What’s so funny?
My energy and their energy. They’re feeling my energy and they’re going to go and subscribe and they’re going to say hi Marlett.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
So what’s the matter with my energy?
Marlett:
Hi Marlett. (Name spelled out)
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
What’s the matter with my energy?
Marlett:
And I’m going to say hi right back. And I’m going to send emoji’s and everything. Yeh!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Ok!
Marlett:
Cause I have an awesome energy.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Ok, I hope you’re right
Marlett:
I’m right!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Exhale….
Marlett:
I’m right!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
On the real, I’d be jealous. I’m not going to lie. I’d be a little jealous. I’m not going to hate though. I don’t think they’re going to do it anyway.
Marlett:
Laughing… Alright!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Cause I know you’re only doing this because you lost the Tick Tock battle, because you never did it because I won the Tick Tock battle.
Marlett:
Exhales….
I didn’t do the Tick Tock because I didn’t want to hurt your feelings.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
I killed that joint! If I have an audio described Tick Tock, Bee, I’m killing the game! Put some audio description on my Tick Tock, and then everybody be like Yo! Tick Tock Killa, T.Reid… Tick tock Killa!
Marlett:
You know, speaking of audio description…
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Alright, thank you babe!
you’re trying to take over the podcast now I can tell.
Marlett:
I’m not done.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Excuse me!
Marlett:
I’m not done.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing… what? Laughing…
Marlett:
Why are you trying to kick me off . You know what it is right?
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
What?
Marlett:
He’s jealous. (Long pause)
Because the shows I’m on do so well. Mm hmm. Because I’m on it.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughs…
Marlett:
It’s that energy.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing…
The energy that’s going to get people to do what?
Marlett:
They’re going to go and they’re going to subscribe
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Umm hmm And how are you going to know they did that?
Marlett:
Because they’re going to leave me a little note and it’s going to say Hi Marlett! (Named spelled out again)
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
You know you got that spelling thing from me right?
Marlett:
I think you got it from me. Yep!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing…
Marlett:
So make sure you go, Reid My Mind Radio!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Where can they go to subscribe?
Marlett:
Anywhere that has podcasts.
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
And then what’s the website?
Marlett:
ReidMyMind.com
R to the E I D
(Audio: “D and that’s me in the place to be!” Slick Rick)
Marlett:
Like MY last name!
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing… That was good!
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Marlett:
Peace
[TR in conversation with Marlett:]
Laughing… There it is. alright, Nice!
You’re trying to get your own podcast. Whatever Bee. I didn’t press record.
Marlett:
That’s not even funny!
Hide the transcript
Tags: Adjusting, Advice, Blind, Children, Disability, New Normal, Perspective, Tick Tock, Travel Posted in Advocacy, African American, Blindness, Family, Fatherhood | 2 Comments »
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Wednesday, March 18th, 2020
Podcasting as a passion project takes some real perseverance. There’s always some excuse lurking around the corner just waiting for you to take
hold.
In this episode I’m working through one which has been nagging me for a while. Giving it some real consideration led me to recall a story from my own adjustment experience. A time when I got duped into being a part of a live performance of inspiration porn. Well, sort of. Let’s just say I wasn’t there for the same reasons as those running the event.
Like most episodes, I believe this one can give those new to blindness and disability some things to consider. In fact, like all episodes I don’t think it’s restricted but that’s not really up to me. I’ll leave it right here for whoever wants to partake.
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TR:
What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family?
Yo soy Tomaso, Thomas Reid, host and producer of this podcast – Reid My Mind Radio.
Welcome to those of you who are new here.
This podcast introduces you to compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability.
every now and then, like today’s episode, I share some of my own thoughts and experiences as a man adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult. And yes, I say adjusting, I don’t think I’ll ever really use the ed suffix on adjust. That’s not to mean there’s no progress. It’s just a continuous journey. Once you get to the understanding that it’s not one to be feared or even think negatively about, it gets better. But It’s like life, there’s always going to be change, and vision loss or any disability is now a part of that.
If that’s part of your reality, a family member or friend or maybe people you work with, well you’re definitely in the right place. If you yourself are going through some other sort of life change or you just like podcasts. There’s something here for you too, if you are opened to that.
Everyone is truly welcomed here with the exception of those with real hate in your heart. Energy works in mysterious ways and I don’t want that negativity being passed along to me or any of the family.
So let’s get this poppin!
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio theme
# Intro
Today I’m sharing some thoughts about this podcast. These are not stream of consciousness. No way I wouldn’t do that to you. My mind can be a scary place when I’m trying to figure things out.
Audio: Sound of chaos!
Chances are as I navigate these thoughts they will prove to be applicable to more than this podcast and hopefully useful to others. That’s exactly how I feel about every episode. I focus on those adjusting to blindness , but lots of others can relate and enjoy.
Audio: Typing sounds….
Since I began this podcast and maybe even prior, I have been very specific about saying I don’t see myself as a journalist. I’m an advocate, straight up! If you listen to the podcast, you know there’s a certain message about blindness and disability. My opinion or feelings in most cases are evident. The overall message is one of empowerment. I’m not impartial.
Audio: Possibly use old episodes here
As if journalism is really impartial.
There are times though when I need to make all sorts of journalistic decisions. It could be the way I edit or the specific questions I ask, even the overall feel of the show, the sound design. It’s intentional. My approach is different from your standard so called impartial reporter.
I’m connected to most people who are guests on the podcast. Usually, the connection isn’t personal. Rather it’s through blindness and disability Sometimes it could be race or we have something else in common.
I feel a responsibility to both my guests and listeners.
I want my guests to feel what I hear when they tell me their story. I want them to know I respect them and their experience.
I want listeners to find the multiple ways they relate to my guests. Yes, there’s the disability experience, but maybe they share a similar motivation, desire or goal.
That’s what I want, it doesn’t mean I can always make it happen.
every listener brings their own past, prejudices, preconceptions and experiences to the podcast.
That makes sense, it’s like anything else. Two people hear the same song , see the same film or read the same book and have drastically different interpretations.
Some people see a reflection of their own lives and goals while others never see themselves in a podcast where blindness and disability is so prevalent.
It’s probably not one or the other. I think there are some who have a bit of both. Either way, I can’t control that.
Which leads me to this statement…
“You should always remember, there are people worse off than you.”
Audio:
“No matter how you’re sad and blue, there’s always someone who has it worse than you”, Shaggy
YouTube Videos
* ” If you’re having a bad day, just consider the day ….”
* “Bare in mind, there’s always someone worse off than you”
Song sung by Little Richard at a MS Telathon.
“… As I look around, so many people who cannot walk, not talk nor see, I thank God for the health and strength that I have, for there’s someone worse off than I am.”
TR:
First things first…
I’m pretty sure I said this same thing at some point in my life. it’s a common statement and an accepted way of thinking.
But, what does it really mean?
How can you compare someone’s life and happiness without all the information??
Is this really pity?
As a content producer, I cringe when I hear it now especially in relation to my podcast.
There’s never been a guest on Reid My Mind Radio that’s in need of someone’s pity.
I then question the choices made for that episode
Did I present this person in a way that says they should be pitied?
I don’t think I focus on the illness side of things. I do include or mention mainly because;
Others with the same diagnosis can relate.
It can also serve as a way to normalize illness and disability. They are a part of life and not a mysterious thing that happened to one person.
AudioFx: Ambiance head in skull
Am I creating inspiration porn?
Most of you are probably familiar with that term. It’s the
idea of presenting people with disabilities as inspirational solely or in part on the basis of their disability.
This idea that this person’s story which often you don’t even get, well it should inspire you or just give you that warm fuzzy feeling reminding you that most of the world is so considerate.
Watch how the rest of the high school students cheered on as the coach let the intellectually disabled kid in the game for the last 20 seconds.
News Report Audio:
Crowd cheering.Coach: He comes to ppractice everyday, he shoots with them, he cheers them on…”
TR:
Or…
News Reports:
Reporter 1: A very special student indeed…
Reporter 2: All thanks to the compassion of one of his classmates….
Reporter 3: But the emotion of this night involved a student who cannot take the field, but is universally admired for his determination…
Reporter 4: A special needs student with Williams Syndrome. He’s a fixture on the sidelineduring football games always rooting on the team. But hi fives are one thing senior prom is something different.
Student: She could have picked anybody to go to prom with.. her.
TR:
I just don’t want to put that sort of thing out in the world.
Does it sound like I’m making a big deal out of this? Maybe because I’ve seen inspiration porn live and in full effect. In fact, I unknowingly was recruited to be a part of the performance.
Audio: Dream Harp
Many years ago when I was still very new to blindness, I was asked by a local organization serving those with vision loss, to give a access technology demo during an event.
I took to the technology pretty quickly and they thought I could be helpful sharing that information.
There was no money involved of course, but they’d provide my transportation and I think there was going to be a lunch. Whatever, I was down to help the cause for sure.
I was setup y’all!
Arriving at the center, I was shown to the main room where the event was taking place.
There were three or four individuals with vision loss seated up in the front of the room. The rest of the group was seated around a large conference table.
I was shown to a table in the front of the room off to the side where I setup my laptop.
Shortly after, the host of the event, the director of the center, welcomed the guests and kicked off the agenda.
Each of the men and women seated in the front of the room were asked to share the story of their vision loss.
Here’s how I recall that event;
Audio: Trap Beat!
each individual told their story while the event host accentuated the misery.
Storyteller:
” Before I went blind, I used to take long walks in the park
Now, I can’t see anything, my whole world is dark!”
Host: “Pitch black, the world is dark, too dangerous for you in the park.
TR:
Laughs! I said, that’s how I recall it today, but that’s not exactly what happened. But I do recall the questions and comments from the host were obviously selected to highlight the negative.
She was playing to the fear of the guests seated around the conference table.
these were potential donors.
All who probably already had beliefs about blindness;
“it’s probably the worst thing that could happen to you and if we don’t help these poor people they won’t be able to do anything. They can’t do for themselves.”
I was setup to be a part of a dog and pony show to help fundraise for the organization.
the fact that it was a fundraiser isn’t the problem for me. I would have still agreed to attend.
However, I would not have participated if I was aware of the approach being used to raise that money.
My so called presentation was probably less than 5 minutes. The host asked some specific questions and then made it seem like it was my technology background that enabled me to grasp the tools and less about the technology as a tool for independence.
Then they pulled out the glasses.
Audio: Glasses clinking and sliding down a bar!
No, not drinks. I don’t even think that would have helped. . No, it was the blindness simulation glasses. These are created to help sighted people understand what it supposedly looks like when you have certain diseases like, macular degeneration, RP, glaucoma and others.
At first thought, you may think ok, that’s probably helpful. It helps people understand and therefore empathize? Sympathize?
Well, in this particular case, while the dog and ponies sat up in front and this one off to the side a bit, the sighted donors were led into their temporary world of vision loss.
Reluctantly at first, one after the other each slowly began trying on the glasses.
“Oh my”…. “wow”
“where did you go Jeanie?”
And then the real fun began as they exchanged glasses with one another. Laughing as they realized how little they could actually see. Unable to find things they placed on the conference table. The host joking as she moved their cups of coffee.
Meanwhile, the dogs and ponies sat up front. While the jackasses continued with their disability experiment.
Empathy, I didn’t see that. But a check was written.
I don’t remember how the event finally ended, but I do know that was it for me. I checked out. There may have been some additional conversation but I doubt I had much to say to anyone after bearing witness to that display of ableism. I vowed to never be a part of anything even remotely like that.
I could easily imagine each of the donors around the table going home fulfilled and thinking “I should really count my blessings, because there’s always someone worse off in the world.”
As far as I could tell, I was alone in my review of the event. I believe some of the others continued to participate. I pretty much severed ties and ended up having a sort of reputation, so I was never asked again. perfect!
All of this leads to my final question.
How are we telling our own stories?
I highly doubt any of the people sharing their story were given instructions on how to tell it. Chances are, the director simply knew these individuals would supply what she wanted for the audience.
Some may say the ends justify the means. The center received the money and therefore can do good things for the clientele. I don’t agree. I believe several of those in the room were employers in positions to someday hire a blind person. I doubt they would. But that’s a subject for another day.
What thought do you put into telling your own story?
In most instances, we’re doing the telling of our own story. We don’t have a videographer, podcaster, journalist.
We’re probably not standing in front of an audience equipped with a PowerPoint presentation. We’re simply talking to people. Most often one on one.
Crazy thing, I tell other people’s stories but not my own. I can do it in a presentation, no doubt, but one on one not so much. I feel strange.
Audio: Cameo Strange! moves into “Children’s Story” Instrumental Slick Rick
I should tell my story as if I’m giving a presentation. it’s mine, it’s a good one. It’s worth telling. It can be helpful.
And it’s the only one I have.
And in the event someone hears it and their thought is
“Wow, I’m so grateful because I’m not like Thomas!”
My response, Bruh, you should be so lucky!
I’m not flexing’ or being conceited or anything like that. But this is my life why shouldn’t I be proud of what I do, when I do it and how I do it.
the same decisions I make for my guests and you all the listener, shouldn’t I put that much time and thought into my own story?
If you say yes, then maybe you too should do the same.
I told you this wouldn’t just be related to podcasting. In fact, it’s not just related to disability.
Or is it?
“Here we go!” Slick Rick, Childrens Story
You can find Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. And if for some reason that isn’t the case, like teddy said, come on over to my place… ReidMyMind.com. That’s R to the E I D
Slick Rick “D, and that’s me in the place to be”
Like my last name.
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace
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Tags: Adaptation, Adjusting, Advocacy, Blindness, Disability, Empowerment, Inspiration Porn, Journalist, Podcasting, Storytelling Posted in Access Technology, Advocacy, Audio, Blindness | Comments Off on Live Inspiration Porn – I Got Duped
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Wednesday, February 19th, 2020
Living a creative life for Victoria Clare is more than a way to express herself. It serves as a way to help her own adjustment to vision loss
Hear her story from denial and rebellion to acceptance and putting her in a position to support others.
Victoria Clare is a Sculptor, Musician, Entrepreneur… and she’s working on becoming a Scratch DJ! For real though!
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Resources
Transcript
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TR:
What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family? I missed you all for real!
Happy 2020 to you all!
A bit of a slow start, but you know, you can’t hold a brother back!
So much of what’s going on in the world today makes it more challenging to find that hope and optimism.
Audio: There’s no need to fear…”
Reid My Mind Radio is here!
Let’s get this poppin
Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music
VC:
“Creativity is one of the most powerful, healing, it’s one of the most connective things that you could ever do to get to know who you really are.”
TR:
Getting to know who you really are is a big part of our early lives especially from our teenage years and on through college. For Victoria Clare, an artist specializing in sculpture, vision loss added to the process.
VC:
I just passed my driving test. I never had a lesson at night ever. Not any reason to that its was just my lessons were never booked for that time. When I passed my driving test I jumped in my car very elated wanted to go tell my boyfriend at the time that I passed my test.
Pulled out of my mom and Dad’s driveway and all of a sudden it became very very apparent to me that I really shouldn’t be driving. I just could not see enough to be driving.
TR:
On that ride to her boyfriend’s house, she clipped another vehicle and lost her driver’s side mirror. Fortunately, no one was hurt. It was enough to prompt her to see an Ophthalmologist
VC:
That’s when I found out I was going to go Blind.
TR:
The diagnosis was Retinitis Pigmentosa.
VC:
My particular Retinitis Pigmentosa is one of the recessive types so therefore we have no people in the family that have had it. So I’m literally the start of the chain if you will.
So finding that out as well kind of made me feel like wow what a responsibility. For me to get married and have children later in life would be a big choice for meat some point in my life which I was very aware of. However, I went back to college.
TR:
College in the UK refers to where many students go for two years after completing compulsory schooling at 16 in order to prepare for
exams to get into university. You can also take
vocational courses
at college.
While studying graphic design with plans to move on to University to continue in this field, Victoria just happened to come across a book about sculpture.
VC:
I knew when it was time for me to go to University that graphic design wasn’t for me. Sculpture was going to be my future
It was an amazing course. It only had 28 places in the whole of Europe. I was lucky enough to get one of those places.
I didn’t really consider that perhaps, hold on a second I may not be able to do this, I just carried on.
TR:
For some that may sound like optimism, positive thinking. But others who have been down this road would probably advise differently.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
Did you have contact with anyone else who was experiencing Vision Loss, anyone whose Blind?
VC:
No. No I had no contact with anyone like that.
TR:
Blind mentors can often help provide guidance, resources, and lend an understanding ear when dealing with all the additional loss that more than often accompanies the vision loss.
VC:
I had a lot of people kind of walk out of my life or just feel very awkward around me and didn’t know how to handle it.
My boyfriend I was with at the time, we got engaged, and he kind of was really struggling with the sight loss diagnosis and he actually saw it as too much for him so the relationship broke down.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
His loss! Hmm. We don’t like him.
VC:
Yeh!
TR:
Victoria soon learned that carrying on would require skills that she didn’t have. Living independently in a new town, navigating both in and outdoors.
VC:
I didn’t realize how simple everyday things would become so difficult for me. I had a hard time at Uny for a very short time, I mean literally I wasn’t there for very long before I decided that I can’t do this. It’s too hard. I left.
My lecturers said to me that I was welcome to come back at any time. Which was really really gracious of them considering it was such a prestigious course.
I had a conversation with my parents, they were incredibly supportive. They came and collected me.
TR:
Back at home Victoria says she isolated herself from the world.
VC:
And I started drinking. Initially it was about trying to numb the pain. I just felt like my whole world had shattered into a thousand pieces. I didn’t know how I was going to go forward. I didn’t see a future for myself .
And then something happened.
TR:
To put it simply, Victoria was introduced to possibility. It came in the form of a rehabilitation specialist.
A really lovely lady. She had a work cut out, to be really fair, with me. I was really super rebellious so I didn’t want help from anybody. You know, don’t treat me like a Blind person bla, bla, bla you know a typical kid.
TR:
Soon after meeting, the rehab specialist realized Victoria wasn’t going to use a white cane.
VC:
I just was not going to use one. I wanted to learn every trick in the trade so I could get away without using one.
She started to teach me other things like echo location, which is still really useful to me. trailing, just small things like that, that was getting me by.
TR:
Sometimes it’s the smallest suggestions that have the greatest results.
She was the one that suggested that maybe I should try some sculpture just for therapeutic reasons.
I went out in my Dad’s shed, I got a big old’ block of wood, stole some of his chisels, used his mallet and started creating. It was amazing. I turned my world around because it made me realize alright, I’ve been diagnosed with this sight loss but nobody’s taken away the skills that I’ve always had. They’re still there.
TR
Remember the skills that she began sharpening in University?
VC:
The background and the love was the figurative work so I created a kind of table top size maybe like two feet tall female figure. I called it “Her Spirit”. that was put into a local gallery and sold. I then kind of returned and created another figurative female figure which was also sold. My work has changed a lot over the years but most certainly it was more figurative work back then.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
Did it represent something in your life at that time or what was that all about?
VC:
I would say for me it was more to do with the fact that the course that I had to leave in Uny was a figurative sculpture course. So of course I was kind of making that connection of wanting to keep the figurative sculpture part of me going even though if I had to walk away from the University
[TR in conversation with VC:]
How much of an influence is blindness. The subject of blindness not necessarily your adaptations if there are some but how much does that play into sculpting specifically.
VC:
Now a huge part because I get inspired by it. For example only two years ago that I put on the first sculpture exhibition that was completely in a pitch black gallery. everybody had to use their other senses to discover what the pieces actually were.
TR:
This particular exhibition enabled Victoria to express herself in three different ways.
VC:
It was to share my personal acceptance of my journey with sight loss. It was to also kind of share sight loss with the general public so that they would have an experience and an understanding of what it feels like. And three it was a very strong message to visual arts because they really , really need to up their game when it comes to accessible art in galleries. Most certainly for visually impaired people . When you walk into a gallery how do we navigate and involve ourselves in our environment? By feeling. To be told that you can’t touch a piece of sculpture a piece of art you’re immediately excluded from enjoying it.
TR:
The exhibit, a first of its kind received national media coverage and all of the pieces were sold.
the result opened new opportunities for Victoria including serving as a retina UK Ambassador
VC:
Raising money to create research and pioneer research for Retinal Dystrophies. public speaking started to grow from there really. I get to speak at conferences and various events. I’m speaking at the World 2020 Vision, that’s in Dublin and also chairing a panel.
TR:
The latter is a chance to meet others impacted by vision loss.
VC:
There’s a connection there. It’s something very special.
TR:
A big part of her personal journey is creative expression. Something Victoria believes can be of help to others adjusting to their own vision loss.
VC:
I would recommend anything that will lift somebody’s mood that will connect them to who they are and make them feel that they are enough and give them self-confidence and self-worth. From sculpture to painting, from dance to music and anything in between. I would just say creativity is one of the most powerful, healing, it’s one of the most connective things that you could ever do to get to know who you really are.
TR:
Her own creative expression goes beyond sculpture.
There’s music which began around the same time as vision loss. Specifically, she began learning guitar from a friend.
VC:
Probably one of the things that helped me as I rewind going back to those dark days because I would sit when I was alone and if I was feeling down would just play my guitar. Just compose. I did find that a little comfort at the time.
TR:
About 13 years ago now, she discovered piano.
VC:
I used to be working in a school and this piano was sitting in the hall never being used and I’d be the only person working up a tinkle you know. Slowly but surely I started thinking you know what this is great, I love it and I ended up buying that piano off of the school and it’s sitting in my spare room now. (Laughs)
TR:
And you’re recording your music?
VC:
I Literally just come out of the studio.
Audio:
“Know you Matter”, Victoria Clare
TR:
Singing and performing in bands since she was 23 years old, “Know You Matter” is Victoria’s most recent production. It’s a message to all those that have self-doubt and serves as a personal affirmation to remind her that she matters. She hopes it will resonate with others.
Know You Matter is available on ITunes, Apple Music, Spotify and just about wherever you listen to music.
Next up creatively…
[TR in conversation with VC:]
And you’re rapping too?
Laughs!
VC:
Laughs! Working on it. I want to get into a bit of scratching, you know Tom. Laughs…
TR:
She’s serious! She’s a Hip Hop fan.
Dela 1
VC:
I like a lot of Hip Hop, Dance music, but then I like a lot of singer song writer stuff.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
Since you said Hip Hop, who did you like?
VC:
I absolutely love Dela Soul. Yeah they were definitely my favorite.
TR:
The more I think about her art, it makes sense. She takes an existing piece of wood and crafts that into a whole new thing. That’s Hip Hop.
This past Christmas Santa brought her a DJ controller or the modern day DJ turntables so who knows what she’ll create.
I know what you’re thinking, does this woman ever get bored? Well, she has the answer for boredom.
VC:
Board sports! (Laughs…)
[TR in conversation with VC:]
Yeh, I guess which is really another form of expression I would say.
VC:
When I was 23 a big life change happened for me because I decided to go backpacking with my best friends around the world. Probably the best thing I ever did. I was being faced with beautiful beaches and all the surf community and I was sitting there watching all these guys and girls just riding those waves and I just longed to do it but in my head the voice was saying you’ll never get to do that you’re going Blind you can’t do that.
TR:
If this were a movie, we’d queue up the dramatic music, the camera would pan out to the others easily riding the waves, maybe one falling off the board. The scene would move to Victoria slowly looking at a surf board next her and then back out toward the ocean. Seated on the san, she’d confidently straighten her back, stand, grab that board and sprint toward the water. Her friends would cheer her on as she paddled out to catch a wave…
But this ain’t no movie!
She privately held on to that desire like so many of us do.
VC:
It wasn’t until 2014 that I was actually doing my first solo exhibition. it was a really big14 piece collection exhibition. It was quite stressful at that time trying to do everything for it.
TR:
That’s when her husband had an idea.
VC:
Let me teach you how to surf . And that was it, I was hooked.
TR:
Once upon a time, she was adamant about not using the white cane. Today, Victoria puts that long white cane to good use.
VC:
Skateboarding!
TR:
that’s her way to expel that board energy when she can’t hit the waves.
And of course, where does Victoria go from here.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
You have a line of skateboards?
VC:
Yep, I’ve got the…
[TR in conversation with VC:]
Geez, you make me tired. (Laughs)
I got to up my life! I’m not doing enough.
(Laughs)
VC:
they’re called Blinded Soul and they’re bespoke solid deck skateboard.
When we started surfing we also taught my nephew to surf and then I took that one step further, I made him a surf board. I did the same for skateboards. I was just so amazed how smooth a ride they are. They’re built like in a retro style. They’re not built for tricks, but they’re definitely built for long distance really, cruising.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
The other day when I was reading your blog I was like man I think I want to do this. (Laughs…). Like, I want to try skateboarding Now it’s been years. I skateboarded as a kid.
Audio: from “It’s A thin Line between Love & Hate”
“Here I am laying in the hospital, bandaged from feet to head
TR:
Ok, all jokes aside, I’m going to give that a try.
My personal creativity and expression for a few years now has been less about sports and physical activity today compared to my past.
For anyone experiencing vision loss, finding a creative outlet is worth exploring. It’s hard because the reality is for most these endeavors just don’t help pay the rent.
But that’s not a reason to not pursue a passion or interest. there’s levels to this stuff. find your level and enjoy. The benefits are real.
Victoria’s pursuit of her own interest in music proved fruitful in ways she probably never expected.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
You mentioned your husband. Did your husband know about your vision loss initially?
VC:
Yes, yes. We met through a band that I was in. I was the singer he was the drummer. he had the same kind of silly sense of humor I guess that I’ve got. We’d just have good fun. He would drive me home after rehearsals and stuff. probably only took a couple of months for me to realize that a. how much I liked him and b, I had to tell him.
I sat in the car with him one night, we were just outside the flat where I was living at the time. And I had to take a very very deep breath and I told him. He just hugged me. And I said to him if this changes things you know it’s ok. And he was like no way. I just couldn’t imagine it changing anything between us.
He’s a very, very positive person. Very optimistic. He supports me in everything I do.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
And what’s this fine gentlemen’s name?
VC:
Ah, this fine gentlemen’s name is Adam.
TR:
you just never know where the pursuit of your interests may lead.
Victoria talks about all of her endeavors over at her blog Beyond Vision.
VC:
I want to reach as many people as I can. I want to support as many people as I can but along the way I want to share my vulnerability as much as my successes. I think it’s all very well to sit an talking about all the wonderful things that you get to do with your life but I think it’s more important to share also the vulnerable side of you too because it makes you more relatable. I really do get quite honest with my blogs. They really do tell a story within themselves. They’re raw, they’re authentic.
TR:
T
Encouraged to write her own story in the form of a book, first reluctant, Victoria eventually had an idea to help make the task more attainable.
VC:
What if I started thinking like the book is an extended blog?
So I got in touch with an editor, Molly Somerfield Smith, lovely lady she’s actually a ghost writer. When I first wrote to her I was kind of talking in a way that I wanted her to write it but she was the person that said to me you’ve got to write this yourself. This is your story this can’t come from me, this has got to come from you.
here I am a year later and she’s now got the version that I put together and she’s editing.
[TR in conversation with VC:]
First of all, I see that you’re doing audio blogs. So it’s not enough that you’re doing all the other stuff now you gotta come on into audio? Come on Victoria let some other people keep the audio… (laughs…)
VC:
You know what tom, it’s purely for selfish reasons.
TR:
For the record, I actually welcome and promote more of our voices in the space.
By now you probably can tell Victoria is all about productivity. She’s voice recording what she would have once written for the blog.
To check out her work and more…
VC:
I’ve got my professional website which is for the sculpture and that is www. VictoriaClareSculpture.com And then I got my advocacy website, VictoriaClare-BeyondVision.com. Where there’s all sorts of crazy stuff going on and it’s also got a lot of resources , support and that kind of stuff. And that’s where the blogs are as well.
TR:
Victoria’s working on moving her sculpture website to a more accessible platform.
You can also find her on Insta Gram at VictoriaClareSculpture. That’s Victoria Clare (spelled out)
Don’t forget to go on over to ITunes or wherever you get your music and get her latest single Know You Matter.
Audio: Break of Dawn, DeLa Soul
Shout out to Victoria Clare for sharing her journey. And shout out to Steph McCoy for making the connect!
I’m always hopeful that somehow this podcast finds those who are in the place where many of us once were.
That’s losing their sight, receiving a diagnosis they never expected, maybe fighting against the idea of using a white cane.
It’s easy to focus on what is being lost but as we heard today, the pursuit of those things that bring joy can really help you find what you’re seeking. It’s just right around the corner.
Audio: Lyrics… “Break of Dawn”
If you like what you heard today, subscribe wherever you get podcasts. Why not tell one or two people about what’s taking place here.
Let’s get this information into the ear holes of those who need it the most. In fact, you know we’re about that access here so it’s available for finger tips and eyes too in the form of transcripts available on ReidMyMind.com
That’s R to the E I D like my last name!
Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!
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Tags: Adjusting, Art, Creative, Guitar, Music, Piano, Sculpture, Singing, Skateboarding, Surfing Posted in Advocacy, Audio, Blindness, General | Comments Off on Adjusting to Vision Loss – A Creative Approach with Victoria Clare
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