Reid My Mind

TR:
In today’s episode, we continue in our ongoing advocacy for the inclusion of Blind people in audio description. Since this is Flipping the Script, where we go beyond the mainstream AD conversation, we’re going to show you how AD contributes to our creativity.

Welcome! I’m Thomas Reid and this is Reid My Mind Radio!

— Reid My Mind Radio theme music.

Kemal:
My name is Kemal Gorey. Some of my friends call me KG. I’m a Media Composer. He him, I identify as blind or legally blind. I have kind of brown gray hairs, medium length, and I have glasses, not sunglasses, but I have some fancy Mont Blanc glasses that I always like to mention because they are fancy.

Sample: “And I’m Super Bad” James Brown

I’m currently serving at ramped as a secretary. Recording Artists & Music Professionals with Disabilities. Also, I have a guide dog, who name is Blute means cloud in English.
She’s a yellowish golden retriever. But when she was a baby, the donors told me that she look like a cloud. So that’s why they gave the name Blute. If I do not mention her, she will make it a big deal.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Yeah. My daughter just got a dog it’s a baby, and he just got neutered, or, as I like to say, destroyed.

— Sound of a dog whimpering.

TR:
Now that I mentioned two dogs, I bet this will be one of the highest ranking podcast episodes. (Chuckles) You can’t compete with children or animals!

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So let’s talk about your relationship to disability, so folks have an understanding of where we’re coming from in this conversation.

Kemal:
My journey as a visually impaired individual starts in my really early months on the face of the earth.

My usual habit was blending in and finding some workarounds. That’s the main, central part of my relationship with my disability.

There’s a two face of this medallion this picture. First part is, yes, being innovative, being an inventor, and trying to blend in into the community.

Yes, I’m a natural problem solver, just like all other individuals with disabilities. But on the other hand, most of the energy that I’ve been spending in my childhood, to find ways to blend in, blend into the community, blend into the kindergarten , in the school, and Everywhere. It’s a matter of fact that how to hide yourself and how to hide your identity. It’s a dark part, because people, at least in 90s in my country, Turkey, it’s always a thing. People try to identify you with something.

you don’t look like you’re blind at all. That’s a thing.

TR:
A thing that we know is not exclusive at all to Turkey. In fact, this isn’t exclusive to blindness.

Over the years of producing this podcast, I’ve had the opportunity to speak with so many people about their own experience with disability. There’s no difference between, “You don’t look Blind” and “Girl, you look too good to be in a wheel chair.”

Another common experience we share, not giving in to the idea of hiding yourself.

Kemal:
And this was the center of my relationship with my disabled identity for a long time of my life, until the adulthood. Then I learned how to accept my identity, welcome it, and make it part of my life.

Yes, I’m blind, and it’s not only the part of my identity, but as a professional, it’s the part of my brand also.
When I decided to accept my identity as a trained musician, as a human being, as a composer , then the color of things started to change in a good way.
because then I know who I am, I accept who I am, I celebrate who I am

Then I found my community, although not in my country, but in the States. In spite of the fact that I still based in Istanbul, my body lives in Istanbul, but my career and my community stays and grows in the States, and I can’t be glad and grateful enough for that.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So I’m wondering, when you say blending in, does that have something to do with you and how you took to music? Is there a relationship?

Kemal:
You’re on a really great track here. That’s where my journey with music begins, and that’s the main motivation.

I remember my very first on stage experience, and it was when I was four. My uncle is a well known rock star in my country. Is one of the legends, one of the local and even kind of an international rock legend in Turkey, and my first, very first on stage experience was a duet with him. I think he was thinking it would be adorable to make a duet with a four year old kid.

TR:
Remember what I said about children and animals.

Kemal:
I remember clearly when I’ve seen all the crowd, and I was on stage, I thought, oh my god, the crowd area it’s really messy. It’s overcrowded and there’s a lot of noise in there and dark.
But on the contrary, stage was bright. There was only five or six people on the stage, and I have the microphone, so it looked safer to me.

TR:
And then it went beyond safety.

Kemal:
People shouting your name, clapping, celebrating you, good stuff comes with the live performance.

I can say that my father is an amateur guitar player. Music always was the great part of. My life. Yes, my the stereo was my beloved toy in my childhood when I was a kid. But this is the moment that I decided to start that journey. Maybe I didn’t know that entirely, but it led me to this professional path. That moment on the stage with the lights, and I was the one who has the microphone, who had the microphone.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
I love that.

What’s your uncle’s name?

Kemal:
My uncle has a really long Turkish name. Nejat Yavasogullari. The band’s name is Bulutsuzluk Ozlemi. He and his band has a really unique and important place, because my uncle himself mentored many other younger rock groups and opened the path for them, that’s why their legend. And also their song is still at the top of the rock genre in Turkey.

TR:
While that was Kemal’s first and last time performing with his uncle , (I’m telling you there’s no competing with children and animals)that set Kemal on his path. It helped him find his instrument.

Kemal:
I instantly fell in love with that big instrument and all the possibilities.

— Music begins: A bright piano melody.

I studied violin and cello in fine arts high school. I took some violin lessons, even drum set lessons. I still in love with bass guitar by myself, but the piano was the weapon I choose back in days, because
in my humble opinion, I think it’s the most complex instrument and the core of the music.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What were you listening to as a child that really sort of kind of connected with you?

Kemal:
Even though I’m a Turkish kid born and raised in Turkey because of my father and mother, jazz, blues and rock has (been )the major part in my life.

My dad is a really big Miles Davis fan. My mom herself is a really big fan of Buddy Guy. She still is. We have a little Buddy Guy statue in our house taken from the buddy guys home bar in Chicago.

I’m a really big fan of jazz and blues, even though never managed to become a full time jazz musician.
But somehow, even though it’s not a part my mom’s or dad’s musical life, somehow I decided to go start listening classical music.
Opera, in particular.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So tell me a little bit about your experience with audio description,

Kemal:
what if I tell you I’ve never experienced an audio description till I became a media professional.

— Swoosh that builds up and leads into a crash.

TR:
What?

— Music begins: “Dance Noir” By Kemal Gorey, a bright melodic tune consisting of a mix of various string instruments.

Kemal:
My career in the states starts in 2020 with the competition that I won, ran by Abel artist Foundation, founded by Steven letnes. I applied for his content for the contest that able artist foundation runs.

Somehow I recognize as a grand prize winner. There were some prizes linked with some publishers a couple of years past and I found myself in a project, working with Steve, a project called possibilities. You were also part of it, right?

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
I was interviewed for it.

TR:
It’s a documentary produced by the American Foundation for the Blind. They speak with a variety of different Blind people in all sorts of fields. Several are part of the RMM Radio family including Satauna Howery who narrates the open audio description.

Kemal:
That was the first time I’ve experienced the audio description because I’ve been working in the project as an additional music writer and Steve’s assistant, the composer assistant.

TR:
Composing music for a film with open audio description means you’re going to have to compose music that takes the AD into consideration.

Kemal:
I watched that documentary like, 1000 time.

Being visually impaired, legally blind, can put you in weird situations where, because the doctors keep telling you, you should using your site, but at the same time you same doctors keep telling you need accessibility, equipment and tools, all right, but where is the balance?

You are the one who should find the balance in your life and it can be tricky. Also, we really don’t have audio description. Let’s say the audio description was not that popular in Turkey or not existed at all at all, mostly back in the days.

Thanks to my private school education, I have a fairly acceptable English so I can watch movies in English, but I never tried an audio description. I saw audio description as an option, but with the possibilities, I experienced that for a long time, and then I utterly understand how comforting It is then, how crucial it is, because you never thought something’s important, until you experience it all by yourself.

TR:
Today?

Kemal:
Audio description should be the part of the core production budget. It shouldn’t be optional. It should be a requirement, a core budget item, like, we need music in the movie. We need dialog mix in the movie. . We need audio description in a movie or any kind of motion picture, that should be the rule, because the blind community have every right to access all media content in an accessible way.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Absolutely, I will not fight you on that. (Laughs)

Kemal:
(Laughing) You should not!

(The two laugh.)

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Now that you are aware of it after possibilities, do you access more content with audio description today?

Kemal:
I can’t say that because, I still have some sight.

My usual habit is still consuming the visual content with my eyes, but I’m also getting older, so I don’t know what future holds, but it’s really comforting and heartwarming that at least there is an option.

TR:
Options are great! Kemal, actually did take the opportunity to listen to audio description, not as a consumer, but as a creator.

Kemal:
actually, it was a really interesting, strange, challenging, definitely, maybe the most inspiring project that I have ever been. It’s called, how great is your darkness? A silent movie about disability culture and how medical institutions treats the disabled persons and why the ableism is really strong in that field.

It’s like a art house short movie established by seven short stories. Each one of them reflects different problems in the medical industry.

TR:
The film is currently making the film festival rounds and will hopefully arrive on a streaming platform at some point for us all to see.

Kemal:
A Finnish director, Jenny Iulia, please forgive me that I cannot pronounce her really long last name. She warned me not to try that.
She decided to create an audio description for that movie.

A Finnish person who is the father of the Finnish audio description scripted the audio description. They recorded it. She decided she wants music in that movie, but the music will be sync with the other description.

TR:
Yulia decided, she didn’t want the composer of the music for her film to actually see the film. Rather, she wanted to music to be composed based on the audio description.

Kemal:
It’s a comedy movie.
There’s a lot of sync points, like cartoonish sync points. Well,

TR:
A comedy? Not the first genre that comes to mind when thinking about ableism in medicine, but ok.

I haven’t seen the film, but if you’re not clear about sync points, think slap stick. You need the music to be timed with the pie in the face or the fall after slipping on the banana peel.
— Slapstick music

Kemal:
it’s a real comedy.

TR:
The challenges go beyond hitting the comedic sync points.

Kemal:
One, because it’s a silent movie, there’s no dialog. Everything is told by gestures and that’s why all the description never stops, talking, talking, talking. (Fades away)

So for a Media Composer, it’s a nightmare, because since the voiceover never stops, how I score something has its own taste, has its own part, but will not fight with the voiceover, which never stops.
But the bigger challenge is the director told me that she will combine the score, the audio description and the picture after I deliver everything to her. And I was like, okay, then give me the picture so I can catch all sing points, and it will be done. She told me , nah, I won’t give you anything, score the music, and we will see whether or not it will fit with the picture.

TR in conversation with Kemal:
She’s definitely a comedian.

(The two laugh.)

Kemal:
She’s a multidisciplinary artist. And I still can’t believe how inspiring she is. She took all the time talk about all the allegories that she used, all the reflections, all the sub context, and she was always accessible for questions and more debates in terms of how the music should be. And she didn’t give any hint what kind of music that she wants.

TR:
Fortunately, she hinted that she wanted the music to sound fancy. By that she meant classical.

Kemal:
I scored a Hollywood style comedy score, all the bells and whistles, all the wind, strings, brasses, percussion, everything.

TR:
The director’s plan was to move a few things around if necessary to sync the score to the film.

Kemal:
She called me eventually And she was like, Kemal, guess what? I said what? I decided to not change anything. I will place all cues as they are. I was like, Okay, why did you decided to do that? She was like, you will see. I will send you the picture.

TR:
He watched it. And of course, like any artist, he found some technicalities he could change, but all in all…

Kemal:
The score nailed it. It was like a magical moment for me, because I never tried to do that in my entire life. I used to work with picture. I’m proud of myself. It just worked with just audio description. And it’s a silent movie Thomas.

TR:
Audio description is more than entertainment. It’s empowering.

Kemal:
it was my proudest moment on my professional career, I nailed a ridiculous challenge, and it opens a whole new door in my creativity and in the world of creativity, I assume because now we have a proof of concept that a Blind Media Composer can score a motion picture thing. It can be a short movie, it can be a feature film, it can be a cartoon. It can be anything, if there’s audio description that will be enough. And if you want to make it perfect, then provide some time codes, it will be perfect.

TR:
Octavia Butler wrote; “there’s nothing new under the sun.”

In 1979 Stevie Wonder released the album Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. This was the score to the documentary titled Secret Life of Plants.

— Audio from the documentary…

Stevie, or some of y’all know I like to refer to him as my uncle Stevie, (a filtered voice remarks, “He’s not your uncle.) scored the film based on the description he was given of the films visuals; ahem, audio description.

This doesn’t take anything away from Kemal’s accomplishment . I share this to be factual and model the idea that we’ve been here y’all!
An awareness of our history, especially going beyond what we’re spoon fed, is inspiring and let’s us know it’s all possible.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What made Jenny Yulia choose you?

Kemal:
She wanted to work with a blind composer and the creator team found me because I published an article in blind new world in beginning of 2024.

TR:
I’ll link you to that article in this episode’s blog post at ReidMyMind.com.

Kemal
Then we connected on Zoom. And something clicked between Yulia and I, and I knew that it will be hell of a journey with her. And it really was

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
You have a great energy, bro. So I can see why people would click with you.

Kemal:
it’s very kind of you, thank you so much for that.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
You mentioned that this accomplishment open the door for creativity. Yes, we can score animation. We can score movies. Does it go beyond that for you?

Kemal:
Actually, yeah. I want to focus on Western art music Impressionism, and expressionism. These are the two genres in the Western art music area and there are fathers of that, two genres, one with you, interpretate what you see. It can be a painting, it can be a sculpture, it can be anything. It can be even a kind of a story or poem.

— “Mona Lisa” Nat King Cole

TR:
I’ve been interested in sound designing image descriptions for various pieces of art including paintings and sculptures.
Rather than your straight vanilla reading of an image description, imagine how engaging an experience could be when
we combine a performed reading of a poetic image description with musical composition and sound design?

As Blind people, we aren’t going to have the same experience with visual art so why not strive for new experiences.

Kemal:
The music should serve the story, it’s like a sidekick to the story, and audio description, even though tells what’s going on
it will definitely fail to express all the allegories in it. And the music comes to help, because music tells whether or not it’s creepy, lousy, fictitious, Mystic, empowering, engaging, heroic, the music, the one which expresses the emotions, like anger, love, being desperate, outrage, or the expressions like, hilarious, annoying, embarrassing.

from a blind audience perspective, they will not be able to see the clouding, they will not be able to see the color grading because audio description has a limited time to tell what’s going on.

TR:
We’re talking about all of the small details in a scene whether static or moving. Could it be written? Yes. But is it always the most engaging?

Kemal:
The score can do those kind of things.
What if score tells the weather is cloudy and the woman, even though look pretty, she has something in her mind that makes her sad. An audio description will maybe express some of those, but will not be able to tell all of it. But music can express those things with the sounds that opens the whole new world of creativity to me.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What does the ad viewer need to know? Are we literate enough to be able to translate what you’re communicating musically?

I think what I really probably should say is that we need to pay more attention.

I’ll admit that I listen to the music and I listen to sound design and I get the vibe, but I don’t know if I always put it into context of what the story is saying.
I feel like I need to be paying more attention to that music, that sound design, and the AD. It’s a lot of work.

Kemal:
It’s not entirely your fault.

Maybe audio description might mask the score in some certain places. Maybe the director wants to go another route. Maybe they don’t want to use music at all. We should look at the masterpieces here. I think the most famous score, Star Wars.

TR:
Next time on Flipping the Script on Audio Description, we’ll explore sound design and music in movies.
What are some of the things we should know, how can we become more active listeners and maybe take a listen to some examples.

Not just for the sake of doing so but with the intention of making use of the other ways information is communicated in visual media. Creative ways that we as non visual consumers can explore and benefit from.

In addition to composing for film, Kemal has some top secret projects I look forward to learning more about in the future.

Kemal:
We’ve been working on a project with Lachi, my friend and colleague. I can’t tell more about it just yet, NDA’s.

There’s also something coming up. I just saw the papers in my email just before I connected here. It will be kind of a different project, that much I can tell. It won’t be a motion picture thing, it will be a theatrical. Takes place in New York.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
If you’re gonna be in New York City, definitely let me know. I’m right there man.

Kemal:
I will definitely do that.

TR:
For Kemal, music helped him, in his own words, blend in. For some that may sound like hiding and perhaps at one point it was. But today, Kemal is clear about what that means to him.

Kemal:
In the past? It means, if people doesn’t get the clue that I have a site condition, then I will consider myself blended.

I think it kind of ruined my social life when I was young, and it kind of ruined my love life.
Now, blending is celebrating who you are.

Everybody, including myself accepts my identity. Everybody including myself celebrates it, because that’s who I am.

Thanks to my dear friend Steven Letnes, and thanks to ramped recording artists and music professionals with disabilities, thanks to all those, I’ve found a community. Now blending is celebrating who you are, celebrating your identity, celebrating that out loud. Hey, my name is Kemal and I identify as blind. And what’s up with that?

(The two proudly laugh.)

TR:
That’s right, what’s up with that. (Ouie!)

I respect that commitment to shouting out those who support you along the way, especially mentors and those in your community.

Check out this episodes blog post for links to both The Able foundation and RAMPD.
And of course I’ll link you to KemalGorey.com where you can check out more about Kemal and his music.

Kemal:
kilo, Echo, Mike, Alpha, Lima, golf, Oscar, Romeo. Echo, yankee.com.

TR:
As the kids used to say, Google him baby!

Find him on all social media platforms.

Kemal:
Everything KemalGorey, blue sky, Instagram, LinkedIn, IMDb and ramped also. All professional members have their profiles at RAMPD.

TR
This is right about the time when I let the guest know how much I appreciate the fact that they shared their expertise and time with the family.

I was inspired to do that a little differently now, check this out.

— Music begins: A piano synth loop that leads to a strong kick and driving beat.
TR:
In 2014 I introduced you to this podcast | It’s a passion project, that means all love, no cash
Over 10 years bringing you nothing but facts | my goal for this has always been impact!
I invite a guest, take a topic tailor it just for you | a disability perspective always shining through
Thanks to my guest for sharing your time with me, You’re official | Reid My Mind Radio Family… Raa!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official? | Official, uh uh official
Kemal: Kemal Gorey
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

For all y’all thinking, hmmm, what can I do| I wrote a checklist so you can become official too
Sample: “One” Chuck D!
You just can’t be down if you don’t follow or subscribe | That’s the number 1 way to join this tribe!
Sample: “Two” Chuck D!
Shout it out! Tell all your friends and your foes | That’s the way we help each other when the podcast grows
Sample: “Three” Chuck D!
Buy merch, shirt or hoodie for yourself or your boo | Now look at that, you’re official too! Woo!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official? | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
I said who’s official? | Official, uh uh official
(Applause)
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

There it is!

Follow or subscribe wherever you get podcasts!
You know how we do, right?
Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com
And so there’s never, ever, ever, ever any confusion
That’s R to the E I
Sample: D! And that’s me in the place to be! Slick Rick
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace

Hide the transcript

— Sounds of Thunder storm transitions into a birdsong filled spring day!
TR:
I’m fortunate to live in a place where I’m greeted each morning, during three seasons, by happy bird songs.

There’s this one bird, I think he’s responsible for making the daily announcements to all of the birds in the neighborhood. I’m dead serious.

Growing up in the Bronx, we had pigeons and those little brown birds that bounce. Some of y’all know what I’m talking about.
What are those birds? Are they babies? I don’t think they’re baby pigeons.
Are they orphans? I never saw them with their parents.

Obviously, I admit, I don’t know much about birds, but since moving out to the Poconos, I’ve become a fan.

there’s this one bird, I’ll call him the bird caster.
I first hear him in the morning around 5 AM in the back of my house. He’s calling out to the others. It’s not a song. It sounds more like a message.

— A fluttering high pitch voice
“Good morning everyone! Today’s announcements: First, to all the youngsters, class will begin at 8 AM sharp! The weather today, partly sunny, but be prepared it feels as though a front is moving in from the west.”

This is not a direct translation, but I’m telling you, bird caster is making announcements.

Next thing you know, he’s off, repeating the process on the east side of the house.
Flying around the neighborhood, spreading the daily word, that appears to be bird casters role; delivering messages.

— Sounds of birdcaster in the back repeating his message.

My wife doesn’t like birdcaster.
She’s not a morning person.
That’s more my thing!

I respect birdcaster. He has a function and seems to take it pretty seriously. Based on my unscientific research, outside of rainy mornings, birdcaster is out there doing his thing.

It’s spring y’all, I’m waiting on birdcaster and the rest of his crew to return.

Since we’re in this Art of Adjustment season, I’ll take a queue from nature and deliver a bit of a message.

I know there are lots of our brothers and sisters out there who because of disability, feel as though they’re currently in a season of wait.
But, you’re actually in a season of prepare.

This down time that you’re feeling, is perfect for rehab, retraining, for formal or informal education.
Maybe it’s trying something new, something that’s always been of interest.
As much as possible, consider focusing your energy on you and really dive in and use the season.

Remember, a little movement in some direction is the beginning of momentum.

— Pause

I just made that shit up! (Laughing) I’m Thomas Reid host and producer of Reid My Mind Radio. baby! Let’s go!

— : Reid My Mind Theme Music

— Caribbean soundscape (beach, calypso music maybe outside bar)

TR:
In this episode we move forward with my continuous self-portrait, where I explore my adjustment experience based on aspects of conversations with my guests.

While it didn’t make it into the final edit, my actual conversation with Kiana Glanton featured in the last episode, began with her love of Carnival.

I’m not talking about the traveling amusement parks with rickety roller coasters, stuffed animal prizes and funnel cake.
— In a filtered voice; mm…. funnel cake!

I’m talking about Caribbean Carnival.

— Sounds of ocean waves and a steel drum lead calypso music.

The origin of Carnival dates back to Egypt. That’s in Africa y’all!
It was then adopted by Greeks, Romans and Europeans. But what we know as Carnival today has it’s roots in the Caribbean islands where former enslaved Africans celebrated their freedom and more.
It takes place around the world in various forms.

My only experience of Carnival is the West Indian Labor Day Parade on Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn.

— Sounds from the West Indian Parade in Brooklyn!

Kiana:
My favorite carnival hands down is Barbados Crop Over, where it’s the end of the summer season would really literally the crops are over in the whole island celebrates with the parade and parties and festivals and competitions for Soca and Calypso.

For me that down home, very connected, very communal experience came from Barbados.

TR:
It just so happens, when Kiana and I were discussing Carnival, I recently confirmed that my paternal grand father was Jamaican.
I’ve always thought this was the case, but never confirmed.

My mother was from Puerto Rico and I’ve always felt a certain attraction to the Caribbean.
Like I want to move their at least part time the way folks winter in Florida.
No disrespect to my brothers and sisters in Florida, but y’all got to get rid of that governor and the incredible anti blackness.
Yes, it’s everywhere but woof!

Kiana:
The moment I stepped foot in Barbados, I felt like I was home there was this very Africanist.
This very kindred kind of connection that happened the moment that I got there, that I felt like I had been there before, or that I was home.

I was just like yo, , I could live here.
I feel so welcomed.
And I think it is the inherent African spirit, honestly, that like, makes you feel at home.

— Music begins: A up beat percussion heavy African Soca inspired rhythm beat.

TR:
My genealogy isn’t the focus of these episodes.
This is about the art of adjusting, which like these self-portrait episodes is a continuous process

Kiana:
I have not figured out how to participate as a visually impaired person simply yet, because there are safety issues, you have 1000s of people drinking, you have trucks that are moving.
This could be an incredibly day and then your own streets that are not like the streets in the US these are Caribbean streets that have had hurricanes, and everything.
The infrastructure is really different. So it’s not the safest thing to cane, I would say safely behind drunk people and behind the truck. So I have not figured out how to reengage in carnival just yet, but I’m determined that I will return at some point.

TR:
It goes beyond just navigating.
So much of the Carnival environment is visual, but it’s also about community, food and drink.

My first thought is why not experience the Carnival from within as part of a float.
I’m often more interested in being a part of the production. Creation over consumption. Unless we’re in the kitchen, consumption is my preference.

I know there are some out there who hear my approach and may feel it’s limiting.
Thomas, come on man, you can use your white cane and get around if you try.
They’re not wrong. But, if you ever been in such a crowd of people all enthralled by what’s going on around them,
plus add in the rum and other libations, I just don’t know if that’s a battle I personally want to take on. You can, if that’s your desire! You better have some back up canes.

My agenda is more about enjoying the Soca and Calypso music. Sipping on my refreshing rum punch or some Ray & Nephew,
and ultimately reveling in the festivities. But if you want to use that time to gain an O&M Grand Master badge, I support your right to go for it!

I also support disabled people, using our voices to challenge society in different ways. Rather than us conforming to what so called able bodied people deem as…

–Music Ends.

“normal”, why not purposefully enter these spaces with the intention of making them accessible, comfortable environments for us too?

# Working within Blindness

TR in Conversation with Kiana:
I’m curious.
There’s a conversation in the community about whether or not people should be involved in the blindness field.
There’s this idea that oh, some people go in there because it’s easy.
Some people think that that’s a cop out, Oh, you shouldn’t go into the blindness field, you should go out into the workplace and do other things that have nothing to do with your blindness.
.
Have you heard that conversation? What do you think about it?

Kiana:
My thought is this.
You do not get to tell me how to live my life and how to be successful how to be great at being a blind or low vision person.
How do you know that this is the most effective? How do you know that this makes the most sense?

TR:
So much of the philosophy around blindness is based on the idea of being independent. I truly believe in being independent. However, conforming to society for the sake of appearing independent and not in need of any “special” help, well that just let’s society go unchallenged.

Think about it, the NFB from my understanding, advocated against Accessible Pedestrian Signals. This technology was considered an insult to Blind people and our ability to safely cross streets.
Similarly, folks felt the same about audio description and our ability to consume visual content.

“We don’t need no special help”

Meanwhile, the only thing that’s so called special is the way we access the information that’s already there being used or consumed by those who are not Blind. You know, the normals!

I’m getting some real internal ableism vibes from this.

Plus, it feels selfish AF!

Kiana:
Just because you and I are on this side of being able to talk about it without breaking down or punching a wall or being in distress and deep depression doesn’t mean that somebody else isn’t coming straight off of that.

I know what it felt like learning how to cross the street in tears, holding my baby’s hand and she was three and I was blindfolded.
Learning how to use this cane.
I know what it felt like thinking, how am I going to braid her hair? What if she swallows a penny? How am I going to get help? How am I going even know she’s in distress, all this fear And worry.

TR:
Over the years of producing this podcast, that’s been the struggle for me. Admitting the challenge of blindness,
while espousing our abilities, independence and sending a positive message. Making people aware that blindness by itself isn’t limiting, rather it’s the restrictions and limitations established by society .
It’s the barriers society puts in our way that requires overcoming, not our blindness.

Kiana:
Imagine how powerful that is, when we help our community.

Somebody sat with me and told me it was gonna be okay, that it wasn’t gonna be easy, but it is possible. And once you start to organize your world in your mind, and restructure how you think about what success is, then anything is possible in having a functional, happy existence. One of independence and a purpose is possible.

TR:
Let’s be real, hearing that from someone who has been through it is so much more powerful than getting that same message from a non disabled person.

Kiana:
So to the people who encourage you to go out into the world, go for it if you want to.
That’s your thing.
But I feel purposeful in this field.

TR:
As someone producing content specifically for and about disability, some have tried to encourage me to move beyond disability and seek out opportunities to create audio for and about mainstream topics.
I could. But those who make these suggestions never asked me what I wanted. They assumed I was only doing this disability related stuff as a means to something larger, something better, something not disabled. But I don’t see non disabled or bigger as better. Especially when we think about impact.

We have power, even in small numbers

I’m reminded of Kiana and her friends starting what they call the Rescue Experience. They understand that meaningful impact doesn’t necessarily require grand gestures or large amounts of money.

Kiana:
Donating money to a woman who needs to buy coats for her children, or getting her hair done.
Or sending someone we know who’s overworked and tired to a hotel for the night with dinner, and a spa the next day.
People who just needed a little bit of help, who was doing the work, but just use a little bit of support.

TR:
Isn’t that all of us at some point in our life?

I know some want you to believe they did it all by themselves. Holding tight to the idea that their own success was fully based on their individual work. The same folks who won’t acknowledge that perhaps they had advantages that others do not. Access to well funded schools, technology and people.

When we realize we all need a bit of support, maybe we’ll be more inclined to extend that to others as wel.

— Music begins: A traditional sounding slow, smooth Reggae Riddim!

# Audio Described Carnival
TR:
Back to that idea of claiming our own space within existing environments.

When I think about Kiana’s desire to once again enjoy the Caribbean Carnival experience, I have to ask, why not create our own space?
Yes, we advocate for our inclusion in various spaces and places and that’s fine.
But right now, I’m thinking more like the bum rush and less like asking. When I say the bum rush, I’m not referring to the original term where
a crowd of people just rush the door and get into an otherwise restricted area.

— Pause

Well, maybe I am, just not in a violent way.

What happens when we as disabled people worked together to assertively take over sections of these spaces and make them work for us? Obviously, you can’t just go into an existing theater and start building ramps and taring down walls , but we could collectively find a space along the route of a Carnival and create an accessible environment for us. Sort of on that “yeh, we’re here, what up?”

Are there disabled brothers and sisters in the Caribbean who are already doing this? I’m not trying to be the Christopher Columbus and think I discovered something already there. If it doesn’t exist, is this of interest to those living in the Caribbean? I’m pretty sure others like Kiana would be interested in traveling to the islands and accessibly immersing themselves in the Carnival experience.

So let me ask you. Who would be up for an Accessible, audio described Carnival experience? I’m talking about a space within the space designed and made for us!

Picture it.

A designated accessible area along the Carnival route, packed with food and drink (refreshing rum punch) and water, you got to have your water….

— In a filtered voice: Bruh! you’re a man of a certain age now, don’t forget a nearby bathroom

True!
All with live audio description.

— In a filtered voice: Not the bathroom!

Are there any Caribbean describers in the Reid My Mind Radio Family? Seriously, who in the family would be down to experience Carnival with AD?

— Music ends.

Hit me up, ReidMyMindRadio at Gmail.com.

# Close

— Music begins: A bright, mid tempo groove.

TR:
When I thought about this Art of Adjustment season, specifically , giving more thought to aspects of the conversations I have with my guests, I didn’t realize where it could go.
There’s something about it that feels natural. Taking the time to sit with the thoughts and ideas feels really important and necessary.

In the episode featuring Kiana, she spoke about her praying for opportunity. She acknowledged that now she finds herself really busy because her prayers are being answered.
These self portrait episodes for me are a way to slow down. I’m appreciating the time, sitting with these conversations, letting them breathe a bit. It’s an opportunity to spark or reignite ideas and explore them and see where they lead.

Sharing these conversations makes me feel a little like my friend birdcaster.

— In the high pitch fluttering voice: “What up baby!”

There are multiple messages for whoever wants or needs it at a given time. If you too choose to share, that extends the reach of one conversation originally between to people.

Before I fly away, let me remind you to make sure you rock with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
And no matter what season, winter spring summer or fall or if you’re like Babyface who only believes in two seasons;
you can find me by spelling the name the right way.
;
that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample: (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick
” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What is your politics around disability?

Raven:
I think most people who have disabilities should be put on an island.

Riana:
Silly Laughter

Raven:
Away from us normal people! (Laughs)

Riana:
Girl! I agree. (Laughter continues….)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Ok, this is the way I’m going to open the show.

Raven:
)Loud laughter)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Nobody’s gonna know you’re playing.

Riana:
My sister’s opinions do not …

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Loud Laughter)

Raven:
Hey! I thought we were in this together.

(Group laughing fades out!)

TR:
Maybe not an island.
But let’s say Andrew Leland’s country of the Blind were indeed a real place, what would be the requirements for citizenship?
Is it based solely on acuity or must you have additional qualifications?
What would be some of those qualifications?
What actually makes you Blind?

Visual Accuity?
Orientation and mobility skills?
What if you have multiple disabilities?

These questions, well sort of, have been on my mind ever since my conversation with Andrew, featured in the last episode. the actual questions I’ve been thinking about are more related to topics like ableism, and what categorizes something as disability art or a part of disability culture.

Today, continuing with my self portrait, I’ll see where these topics take me. That is, with the help of those two you heard at the top of this episode.

Riana:
My name is Riana Reid. I’m a 26 year old woman. I’m brown skin. I wear rectangular glasses. I currently have my hair and a pineapple meaning My curls are on the top of my head and like a ponytail. I have a bright smile. And high cheekbones, kinda. (giggles)
People tell me I look like my mommy. (Giggles)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
You look like your father.

Riana:
(Giggles) Okay!

Raven:
Riana’s pronouns are she her hers.

Hi, everyone. My name is Raven. I’m a 20 year old woman. I have dark skin and big curly fluffy hair with almond shaped eyes and big smile and my pronouns are she her hers.

TR:
I’m Thomas Reid. If this by chance is your first time listening, I’m the host and producer of this here podcast. And more importantly, I’m the father of these two young ladies.
That’s right, Daddy Daughter Day in full effect! Let’s go!

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
During my conversation with Andrew, we got into a discussion about what categorizes something disability culture. What makes someone a disabled artist.

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 56:24
If they’re in the mainstream, I don’t consider that disability culture. That’s just me.
Are they making the art from a disability perspective? I think that’s the way I draw that line.

Andrew: 56:57
My book is a mainstream book, it’s with a commercial publisher.

I don’t want to put you on the spot. But like, does that mean that what I’m doing is not from a disability perspective?

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 57:08
No.

When you mentioned the blind music artists, like, everybody knows Stevie.

to me, it’s a little different.

Andrew: 57:28
It’s interesting, he has like an album called Talking Book.

He’s not singing about blindness in every song.

It’s kind of a bigger question about identity.
Does your work fall under the category of the identity just by virtue of your having the identity?
Or does the work have to be about the identity for it to be included?
I think it’s kind of a spectrum.

TR:
Before we get to the question of what categorizes something as disability art specifically, let’s talk about identity.

A few years ago, I submitted Reid My Mind Radio to a Black podcast collective. They were looking for Black podcasts to amplify. Based on the fact that I never received a response, I assumed my podcast wasn’t Black enough for them.

But I’m Black!

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
How do you define black?

Raven:
From African descent?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Okay.

Riana:
There are some people who have some African descent and are not Black. Clarence Thomas, I guess he black technically? Well, he probably (Said in a deep mimicking voice ) “I’m not black I’m dark complexion. I’m the same race as my wife.”

Raven:
We had a speaker in this club that I was in. And I just remember her saying that she doesn’t use the term black anymore because someone found it offensive and she’s African American. And I don’t know if I lost my mind in the moment. But every time I think about it, I lose my mind. Black people are all around the world. And I think whoever said she was offended by the term Black has her own personal issue.

Riana:
At the friggin schools, they’re always like Black or African American. I’m like this school district is blessed with such a beautiful black diaspora. Half these kids do not identify as African American, but they definitely black.

Raven:
I’ve had friends before be like, Oh, I’m not black then because I’m not African American. I’m like girl.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Cause they’re from the Caribbean…

Raven:
That’s what they’re taught.

TR:
Could I have been rejected from that Black podcast network because I’m Blind?
Stevie’s Blind, Ray was Blind and they’re Black!

— Do the Right Thing on He’s Black but he’s not Black!
Mookie (Spike Lee):
Can I talk to you for a second?

Pino: ():
What?

Mookie:
Pino, who’s your favorite basketball player?

Pino:
Magic Johnson.

Who’s your favorite movie star?

Pino:
Eddie Murphy.

… Magic, Eddie Murphy, Prince, there not Black. I mean….
Let me explain myself. They’re not really Black, I mean they’re Black but they’re not really Black. They’re more than Black. It’s different.

Mookie:
It’s different?

Pino:
Yeh, to me it’s different.
End of Clip

TR:
When I listen back to this podcast, I think it sounds Black. Not just because I’m on it, not because of the music beds or the references throughout that I know those who know, know. It’s a vibe that is in everything I do.

Police see me as Black.
My teachers and authority figures saw me as Black.
But then again, if your perception of Black is based in stereotypes then ok, maybe my podcast and I don’t fit.

But, I’m Blac!

— Song “I’m Black” from the Parody film CB4

Andrew: 58:30
So there’s a writer named Jim Knipfel who wrote the first book about blindness I ever read, which is a RP memoir called slack jaw that came out in the 90s. He and I have become friends. He’s sort of like a blind writing mentor for me. One day, he paid me a really big compliment, he was like, Andrew, be a writer, don’t be a blind writer, you’re too good of a writer to be a blind writer.
And it was a compliment, but it was also like I’m kind of psyched to be a blind writer.

TR:
Without knowing the exact intent behind that message, it reminds me of someone telling me I don’t look or act Blind. Which is actually less about me and more about someone’s perception of Blind.

Andrew:
John Lee Clark, the deaf blind poet, he had an interview in Word Gathering, the disability arts journal, where he kind of said the opposite. He was like, don’t hide it. That’s a perspective that is going to set your work apart. It’s a perspective to really draw from, I want to write everything from a deafblind perspective.

I kind of feel the tug of both of those approaches to being an artist.

TR:
Could it be more about who is doing the defining?

Andrew:
I was getting a ride from a friend of mine, honestly at the end of the ride, I was like, why are you a friend of mine?

He said to me, in no uncertain terms, so now that you’ve written this book, you got to know your audience, people really respond to hearing the story of you losing your vision, that’s what you need to write now. Just stay in your lane basically.

Write another book that’s about losing more vision. I was like you knew about my career that I had before I wrote this book now all you can see is blindness and like this kind of emotional aspect of vision loss that you see as the moneymaker.

I think that’s what Jim meant by being a blind writer, as opposed to just being a writer. People could only understand you through this experience. And so to me, that’s the pitfall. That’s, that’s where I agree with Jim. But then the next book, I want to write, it doesn’t even have to be about vision loss, but it can be sort of, from a blind perspective. And using blindness in that way that I find really positive.

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 1:00:45
Yeah, I totally get it. It’s how you’re being perceived as one way, and how you present yourself.
Sometimes it doesn’t seem to even matter, you’re being pigeon holed, which is not your goal.
When I started podcasts, I had this whole thing, I don’t have to do everything about blindness.
That wasn’t my intention. But along the way, I was like, wow, there’s nothing wrong with me doing things about blindness and then it broadened out to disability in general, I like this. And I can talk about everything and anything within the disability community or from a disability perspective.
I’m making that decision, it’s not someone putting that on me. But at the same time, when someone wants to limit me and say, This is the only thing you can do, that’s what I have a problem with. Because I can do whatever the hell I want to do!

Andrew: 1:02:37
That’s the question that I’ve been wrestling with really through the whole process of writing the book and figuring out my own identity as a blind person.

Is it supposed to be central? Or is it supposed to be incidental? When is it Central? When is it incidental?

Raven:
You know what blows my mind.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What?

Raven:
When I don’t mention that you’re blind? And it’s like, (Mimicking voice)”Oh my God, how did I not know? Why didn’t you tell me, oh my we’ve been friends for so long, you didn’t tell me.”
(Laughter)

What’s it gonna come up for?
“Yeah, my Dad didn’t see today!”
(Laughter)
What the hell do you want me to talk about?
(Laughter)
I don’t know!

Riana:
it’s the same thing with me. They’re always like, shocked that I didn’t share and I said why would I

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I mean you can understand why people would find that….

Raven:
Not really.

Riana:
No! They think it’s like me sharing like a like a trauma

Raven:
exactly! That’s what it feels like.

Riana:
(Mimicking) “Why didn’t you tell me?”
And that’s weird.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
If you go back everything that you learn about disability in the in the world and how it’s perceived and all of that stuff, it makes sense that people will respond like that.

Raven:
Yeah but it’s stupid!

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
It is stupid. (Laughs)

Riana:
And I also don’t like it sometimes because especially older generations if I tell someone that my father is blind, probably because it contributed to a conversation. They’re like, Oh, I’m so sorry.

Raven:
You knock his eyes out?

TR:
When it comes to being Black or Blind, I never had a choice.
I’m totally Blind. No eyes Blind! Like, I can win a Blind contest

— Timpani Drum roll “And the winner is”

TR:
Years ago my intention was to bridge this gap between the Blind community and others. It feels like a natural thing to consider especially as someone becoming Blind as an adult.

Today, considering all of my identities, I’m just not interested in trying to convince others to se my humanity.
I want to live a life with others who choose to recognize and appreciate people as they are in full.
I want to be seen with all of my identities not just those we happen to share. I want to do the same for others.

On the question of what makes something a part of disability culture, I think it’s about intention.
Who is the art made for?

I think disabled artist create for disabled people. Of course, others can appreciate, find inspiration in and interpret based on their own lived experiences, it’s art. But, in my mind and my interpretation, it was made for us.

— “Hold Up!” (Nate Dogg Sample)
Music begins: A crescendo leads into a bouncy up tempo beat!

TR:
Hey y’all! Quick update.
Shout out to all of the R double M Radio family out there who continue to put in that work.

Justice Shorter, who joined us during our Young Gifted Black and Disabled2022 season, along with SeededGround, recently launched the Disaster Justice Guide Book

“This guidebook is a collection of disaster-oriented lessons, lived experiences and learned expertise concerning people of color with disabilities. Based on six interviews conducted during the summer of 2023, each section is curated using the contributions of profoundly insightful individuals of color who are all well-versed in their respective areas of focus.”

You can find the downloadable guidebook along with accompanying interviews at JusticeShorter.com.

Big shout out to Ajani AJ Murray who launched his podcast Acting Up with AJ & Crew.

The podcast focuses on disability and pop culture. From movie analysis and reviews to some of the latest media happenings in the disability community, AJ’s got you covered.

I’ll link to both of these in this episode’s blog post over at ReidMyMind.com.

And now, back to the episode!

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What is ableism?

Raven:
Ableism

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Laughs)

Raven:
(Spelling out the word) A B L… (Laughs)

Riana:
ableism to me is pretty much society today where it’s just it’s set up for able bodied people with the lack of acknowledgement for people with disabilities,
I guess that’s discrimination.

Raven:
I feel like a lot of the isms and all of that come from just the belief that there’s a normal like boy and girl that and if you stripped from that in any way you need to be fixed. In terms of disabilities to I think that’s what the feeling bad comes from because they’re not living the normal life that we deemed as a society as good and easy. Even though you can live happily with whatever cards you’re dealt.

Riana:
Yeah, we just need to adjust society

Raven:
Yeah!

Riana:
… to be more inclusive.

TR:
I can’t recall hearing the word ableism prior to becoming Blind.
In fact, it wasn’t until I eventually began reading about disability in general that I came across this word and concept.
That is, the discrimination of and social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that
typical abilities are superior.
It defines people by their disability and is applicable both to an individual and system.

Like my girls said, society views disability as something requiring fixing.
It’s evident throughout our culture. Art, politics, religion.

Andrew: 52:10
The refrain that the poem says over and over again, is fall to your knees. And thank God for your eyesight.

TR:
This poem Andrew refers to in his book, was read during a service in a synagogue.

Andrew:
You just sort of have to sit there with your family, as a whole room of people just sort of appreciates that they aren’t blind.
It was kind of wild to me that Lily was offended or found it annoying and it wasn’t just me.

— Theme from Love boat!

TR:
My family and I were on a cruise taking in one of the family friendly comedy shows held in one of the ship’s smaller theaters. It’s still amazing how incredibly large these ships are. But they still get tossed around during stormy weather.

When attending any sort of comedy show, I specifically do not sit in the front row. I don’t want to be visible to the comedian. I’m there to be entertained, not part of the entertainment.

— Music begins: A dark, menacing violin repeats over a mid tempo beat.

We weren’t in the front row but it wasn’t a large theater and I was sitting in the aisle seat.

There was this one “comedian”, I say that in quotes because there wasn’t much about his comedy at all that was funny.
I could tell he was pacing from one side of the stage to the other.
He then stopped in front of the aisle that I was sitting in. He took a few moments and then walked back off to the right side of the stage.
I could just feel it, a Blind joke was coming.

It did. And it sucked!

He was struggling to make something up on the fly. It was some corny, basic joke that involved Stevie, probably the most famous Blind person on the planet. In fact, I didn’t even tell you which Stevie and you know who I’m talking about.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Anyway, do y’all remember that? Do you have any recollection of that?

Raven:
I have about 10% recollection. And I am afraid that 9% of it is because you’ve told me the story three times this week.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
(Laughs)

Riana:
Literally the only thing I remember is daddy’s story. I don’t remember that happening at all.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Really, y’all don’t remember that?

Raven:
Kind of?

Riana:
You’re saying that he saw you in the audience. And then he made a joke because he made the assumption you were blind.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
I’m telling you. It was like there was an energy thing something was going on. But it was like, it was as though we were making eye contact.

Raven:
Maybe you had a dream.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Oh my god! )Said incredulously)

Raven:
(Laughs)
TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
It’s like, you know when you just go somewhere and you just want to be. You know what I’m saying? You just kind of want to just do your thing. You don’t necessarily need to interact. You just want to be there.

Riana:
definitely every day. I can see what Daddy is saying. When we go out, he has his cane or if you’re holding on to somebody’s arm people are going to look especially when Daddy had his eyepatch. Everybody was staring there was no just being like blending in the crowd. We stood out for sure.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Sometimes as a family we don’t necessarily always get that and that was one of those times for me that we don’t get to just be

Raven:
(Sympathetically) Augh!

Riana:
Does mommy remember that?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
She did. She remembers it like I remember it she just says it was a different cruise which I don’t care that’s fine. And it was just it was a weird thing

Raven:
I remember a comedian saying a Blind joke and it not being funny on a cruise.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
This was that guy! (Mumbling incredulously)
Laughter

Raven:
But I don’t know what you want me to tell you.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Did it make you feel any sort of way?

Raven:
I was probably very upset, annoyed.
But you have similar experiences that are all the same thing.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Again, we talked about it goes into that just being, okay, we’re just hear we just want to have a good time like everybody and then all of a sudden, boop! Spotlight! You see what I’m saying. And not the good spotlight where you know I’m rocking the crowd “hey what’s going on” (finger snaps… “Uh, Uh!” as if dancing)

(Silence….)
Hello?

Riana:
Laughs….

Raven:
That makes me sad.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Why does it make you sad?

Raven:
Because I don’t want you to think that it’s like, hard to go out and be a family, with your family?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
No, no, no, I’m not I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s nothing that we do wrong, it’s not our fault. My thing is that I want to know how it impacts you or do you all recognize that and I know you do now, Riana has come a long way in terms of it doesn’t you know, she knows what it is, it doesn’t bother her. So I really feel like she’s gonna be better for that. She’s a better person…

Raven:
What? (Giggles) I thought you meant better than me.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
No, no, no! (Laughs)
I’m just saying like, she’s gonna be better for that. And I think the same is true for you. At the end of the day, we’re just goin’ do are thing!

Raven:.
That’s always been my thing.

TR:
And that’s exactly what we were doing during that trip and in that theater.

The rest of the audience around me, I could sense was aware of my presence, they seem to be looking for my reaction.

— Music stops.

In this case, there was none. Because I didn’t find it funny.
I don’t think they did either.
Although I’ll never know if that’s because they are aware of me being there or if as in this case, the joke just isn’t funny.

But, that uncomfort felt by the non Blind folks, a reluctance to laugh as they await my reaction as though if I find it funny absolves them of the “sin” of laughing at a blind joke…

— (An evil, menacing laugh….) “That actually is, (coughing) pretty funny!”, The Joker.

TR:
I was extremely aware of racial discrimination at a very young age.
But, I knew nothing about ableism.
I know I didn’t harbor any sort of hatred toward disabled people. I didn’t have an ableist bone in my body! (Sarcastic giggle)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Do you ever notice any of your own internal ableism?

Raven:
Yeah,

Riana:
For sure.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I know, Raven should be really good.
(They all laugh)

Raven’s like, “And, what’s the problem!” (Laughs)

Raven:
I think I noticed more of internal ableism with more intellectual disabilities because I’ve been exposed to it less.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
that affects you in a certain way? Is that what you’re saying?

Raven:
Yeah.(Pause)
Riana didn’t give any…

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I’m going back. This was all about an intervention for you. (Laughs)

Raven:
That’s what it feels like. (Laughing)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I remember growing up, it felt like when you saw someone with a disability, you were supposed to feel bad. And sorry, and sad. Right.
The tel-a -thons. Y’all don’t know about the tel-a-thons.

Riana:
I don’t feel bad at all.

Raven:
We do know about the tel-a-thons.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Oh, ok! That was a thing.

Raven:
Did you hear Riana?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What she say.

Raven:
(Overly sarcastic and in vocal fry) “I don’t feel bad at all”

(They all laugh)

Riana:
I don’t. The only time I do is if like, if they’re not being accommodated.

Raven:
Yeh, yeh!

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Riana, , what about you anything around the internal ableism?

Raven:
Yeh, anything for you? (Laughs)

Riana:
Right now I see like ableism in the way that like I approach, neurodevelopmental disabilities or disorders. Sometimes I need to remind myself that we don’t need to, like, fix it. But especially with like a kid with like ADHD, because you get into this mindset, especially at the school, and I’m definitely not going to name drop that school, but they’re very ableist, in the sense of every behavior needs to be addressed. And they have to display the behavior in a certain way. And that’s where I see myself, making sure that I step back and be like, we don’t need to change this child. The curriculum needs to be adapted towards it. And school psych is pushing towards that message anyway. But I see myself being like, (Mocking voice that sounds a lot like Elvis Presley impression, LOL)
oh, yeah, we gotta do this and check in check out, behavioral modification…

(TR and Raven laugh hysterically)
Riana:
For real, I see it. Or like a kid with autism, we were just doing like, trying to figure out an intervention for them. And I just had to sit back and be like, Okay, we’re not trying to fix this child. We’re not going to try to change this child.

TR:
Another message around disability was, inspiration. As in, “Damn, if they can do it what’s my problem?”

— “We interrupt this broadcast to bring you this special news bulletin.”

That’s not inspiration. That’s just looking at someone as less than yourself.

No one ever gave me reason to question that way of thinking.

In my episode with Andrew, we talked about an early experience he had at a NFB chapter meeting.
That really brought back some memories for me, both as someone new to that environment and as someone who used to chair meetings of a local blindness organization.

In the latter, I had many opportunities to observe the uncomfort of those attending a meeting for the first time. These folks assumed we were a support group even though everything advertised about us was clear that we were a community advocacy organization working to increase access and opportunities for people with vision loss. That was literally what I’d say to not mention the word Blind because it scared folks away.

But when those unfamiliar with disability read “people with vision loss or blind”, I think their interpretation is, “Of course it’s a support group? What else do those people need?”

During these meetings, we’re talking about the business of advocacy. Meanwhile, those new to blindness are there in search of resources, maybe comfort, encouragement?

I don’t care if you’re personally impacted or a family member or friend, there’s something quite shocking when first encountering white canes, telescopic lenses and anything else associated with blindness.
Of course, there’s nothing shocking about these things, but when you are in this position where you’re facing a new normal; it’s a lot to take in.

Over time, I could recognize those who would return and those who were outta there.

Occasionally I think about them. the ones who ran away. I hope they found what they were looking for.

I’m not necessarily saying it was internal ableism that stopped them from connecting with our group. I just know that my internal ableism could have stopped me from connecting with people who truly made a difference in my life.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Have you ever witnessed ableism, in the real world …

Raven:
Are you kidding me?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
… that’s outside of anything to do with your father?

Raven:
Oh my god. Yeah.

Riana:
Girl, yes! (Laughs) What?

Raven:
Are you joking? (Laughs)

Riana:
Yeh, everyday.

Raven:
Number one, Villanova. That place man…

Riana:
Yeh, Villanova.

Raven:
Not the place but

Riana:
No the actual place is not accessible.

Raven:
(Ugh!) Ok, hold on. So the first thing I’m going to say is that a lot of the places on the campus, obviously they make accommodations but a lot of the places on the campus have like the disability stalls but there’s only stairs to get in it.

Another thing that drives me nuts is the people who think that they are so woke .
I was telling a story once something about going into the big stall somewhere and they were like, (In a British accent for some reason. LOL)”Oh I don’t use those stalls cause I realize those stalls are not for me”

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Laughing)

Raven:
And I’m like… (laughs) it pisses me off because I’m like, (yelling) “How are they gonna get inside of the place if that’s what you’re talking about.” It pisses me off because it’s this one dimensional viewpoint here it’s like don’t say a slur to someone but it’s so much more than that.

Riana:
I’ve been around people with disabilities for a while so I see it, institutional heavily like Raven was mentioning. Daily conversations. I’m thinking of things in like recreational therapy too.

The Rec therapist is coming in and trying to make something accessible. So you’re seeing how it’s not accessible for everybody. Just a lot of times you go into a space, and they’re like, Oh, this is what you can use. And it’s like, well, we’re going to need contractors because the people are not going to even be able to come in. If you take two seconds and put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. Even like a YMCA we went to and it wasn’t accessible. Every day living, we just had to create things, at least in my experience. And maybe that was just because we were students. So they weren’t really taking us seriously, but you had to be very creative. It puts you in a mindset of like, wow, people who are just not included. You have to be so creative, just to make sure that you’re able to do what you need to do.

In school psych. It’s always like, wow, my child looks normal, they seem normal.
And I’m like, you know who’s not normal? You

Raven:
I think also in a casual way, I notice it more. I think as a society we’re starting to work on our language

Riana:
Yeh!

Raven:
But I notice that it’s a little less with ability language.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Hmm! Riana let me ask you this. What’s the language that’s used when it comes to disability in your line of work?

Riana:
In School Psychology?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Yeh! Do they used differently abled, special needs, do they use disability?

Riana:
No, we say disability. That’s my huge argument over semantics. Everybody’s like don’t get caught up with semantics but that’s extremely important. If you describe a disability in a certain way it can put a picture in a parent’s brain and sometimes you just have to let that parent or teacher or whoever is uncomfortable, be uncomfortable because it is what that child is period.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
It sounds like you’re in the camp of no we’re gonna use the word disability, we’re not gonna change the language we’re gonna use those words.

Riana:
No!
Riana:
I’m not making you comfortable with anything, especially when I’m making you comfortable within ignorance. I’m not doing that. I’m gonna tell you your child has Autism cause there’s nothing wrong with Autism.
The DSM 5 says what it is and it is what it is.

Raven:
I just noticed this thing because I’m taking Psycho Pathology and I’ve noticed a lot of the names of things have changed.

Riana:
Yeh, like Sociopath is anti social personality.

Raven:
There’s like a lot that I realized have changed.
Riana:
Yeh! And that’s because of culture though. The way that semantics comes into play and the way they become derogatory and then we have to be sensitive. And that makes perfect sense, you know what I mean.

Raven:
Yeh!

Riana:
The “R” word. It makes perfect sense, I’m not going to use it.There’s some things though like obviously school psych’s aren’t going to test if a child has “gender dysphoria”, but I wouldn’t approach a situation where a child says they’re non conforming . I’m not going to say you have gender dysphoria. Like, that’s so stupid. That’s something that’s becoming a little derogatory too. That’s when I might change my wording, but that’s because of a cultural aspect.

— From George Carlin Stand Up Comedy:
“Sometime toilet paper became bathroom tissue. Sneakers became running shoes. Information became directory assistance. Car crashes became automobile accidents. Used cars became previously owned transportation.” (Audience laughter.) “Room service became guest room dining. And constipation became occasional irregularity.” (Audience laughter fades out)

— Music begins: A very bright, fun mid tempo beat.

TR:
Now, thinking about the requirements for citizenship in the country of the Blind, the truth is I don’t know that we have an immigration issue at all.
I don’t know anyone lining up trying to get in.

The country of the blind, just like this podcast, has fully open borders.

That being said, it is an opportunity to examine and challenge the way we move through the world to really figure out what blindness is and isn’t. What disability is and isn’t.

Even more of an opportunity if you have people in your life who you love and love you back to share in the experience.
Yes, these conversations can produce a range of emotions, but if you’re lucky, it can just lead to strengthening those bonds as opposed to breaking them.

(Sounds of laughter and conversation between Raven, Riana and Daddy!)

Blindness, disability is all a normal part of the human experience. Which I think works better when we’re all in it together!
Raven, Riana and Daddy:
(The conversation continues and leads into a hysterical laugh from the three!)

Big shout out to Andrew Leland, author of The Country of the Blind, remember, available on the NLS BARD for digital download and Book share as well as all the other places you can purchase books.

Riana and Raven, AKA, Daddy’s babies!
Hanging out with them, is one of the biggest blessings of my life.
Daddy loves you!

Reid My Mind Radio, daddy loves you too! (Silly laughter)

Reid My Mind Radio is available wherever you get podcasts.
Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.
The only way to get there is by spelling it right!
Riana and Raven:
R to the E I D!
— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick

TR, Riana and Raven:
Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!

Riana:
Can we do shout outs!

Raven:
Can we say bye?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
You just said bye!

Raven:
Not really.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Go ahead, say bye!

Raven:
Bye, guys! Thank you for having us on Reid My Mind Radioooooo! Peace!

Riana:
Peace! (In a deep voice)

(In her television announcer voice)
Thank you everybody for listening to Reid My Mind Radio. I’m Riana Reid with my co-host Raven Reid, taking over for this episode. Please follow us on Instagram. Mine is @RianaGeorgette. Raven what’s yours?

Raven:
I’m @Raven22 .

Riana:
We love you, thanks for listening, see you next week.

Raven:
I liked it, that was awesome!

Raven (at about 5 years old)
Woh! Heavy breathing. That was awesome, that was awesome!d

Hide the transcript

TR in Conversation with Andrew
sort of a silly question. But I guess you know, you could go somewhere with this. If blindness were really a country, who are you voting for President.

Andrew
You’ve got my vote Thomas.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Oh, no, I don’t want that.

TR
That’s the last time I ask a silly question. My guest today is Andrew Leland.

Andrew
Writer, Editor, Producer, Teacher, my pronouns are he him, I am a white guy with glasses, short brown hair, wearing a sweatshirt.

There’s certainly people who I think would nominate themselves. You want me to name like a particular human being?

TR in Conversation with Andrew
You don’t have to if you don’t want to. What are the qualifications that you would think would make a good president of The Country of the Blind.

Andrew
the people that I’m drawn to, generally speaking, these are people who probably don’t want to be politicians, and wouldn’t take the job. But, you know, I really love blind people who are creative and who aren’t rejecting their blindness, but they’re also not really defined by it. And they’re sort of using it as this sort of creative aspect of themselves. So it’s sort of like, not for it, not against it. But like with it.

I can pick out a number of people who I write about in the book too.

TR
Well, you’re going to have to read the book, The Country of the Blind, to find out who else can get Andrew’s vote.
I’m Thomas Reid, this is Reid My Mind Radio, and I approve this message.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR
Whether you’re blind or disabled, or in any way, identify as someone in a marginalized group, chances are you thought about what life would be like in a place where you are accepted, and your needs are centered. Maybe even just considered?

Andrew Leland’s first book, The Country of the Blind isn’t a fictional place, but rather, it’s about something much more real.

Andrew
I have a degenerative retinal condition called RP, retinitis pigmentosa. I knew that I was going blind since I was a teenager. But for a really long time, it felt abstract, distant and not worth thinking about. Another way to say not worth thinking about might be like I was sort of in denial, as I think a lot of people are with our P is very easy to be in denial about it, because it’s like, well, sure, I might be going blind. But I’m like driving a car and scoring the winning goal over here. There’s no blindness anywhere near here. And then it caught up with me.

TR
Over the years of doing this podcast, and even prior, I’ve spoken to a lot of people experiencing blindness, low vision, vision loss, no matter what you call it.
or , the reason for the loss, denial is commonplace. And so too, is the fact that it will catch up.

Andrew
I’m about to turn 43 And I would say was about 8, 10 years ago that I really started noticing blindness, intruding into my life, into my day to day in a way that I couldn’t ignore. It was around that time that I started using a white cane full time in public. As soon as I started using the white cane in front of my partner, in front of colleagues, walking down the street in front of strangers, It made me blind in the eyes of other people. It forced me to think of myself as blind. And that was really the beginning of the writing process for me.

TR
He began first exploring blindness as a journalist

— Audio clips of Andrew hosting or reporting from The Organist” and “Radio Lab” respectively.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Can you talk about the art of writing in general, and maybe how important it is and has been in your life?
Andrew
It’s one of the most important things in my life. There’s this phrase that I think about sometimes, which we usually think about in terms of like technology, which is a word processor. Microsoft word is a word processor, the computer is helping you process words, there’s something in that idea that you’re processing and kind of a lot of different ways when you’re writing emotional processing. I use the word metabolizing a lot too. There’s something that happens like an experience and the experience is a little bit just like this meal that you just swallow down but like, you’ve got to digest it. For me like writing is such a crucial part of that process of metabolizing what it is that I’m feeling and experiencing in the world.

TR:
This probably sounds familiar to those who journal and not only gives you an opportunity to purge all of the things running through your mind But literally, it enables you to process those thoughts and emotions.

Andrew
I had some ideas about what blindness meant to me. But now that I’ve written the book, I’ve kind of given myself a little bit of a map to my own feelings and my own thoughts about it that I would never have arrived at without the work of writing.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
To be a good writer, you have to be a reader. And I’m assuming you’re a big reader.

Andrew
Yes, I love reading. So when I started writing the book in 2019, I still was kind of hanging tough with print, I couldn’t even imagine a life after print is such a deep part of my life. And I was very, very unwilling to let go of it. The tricky thing about RP is it’s not like you just wake up one day, you can’t read print anymore. It’s the kind of thing where literally, it will happen over the course of a decade. And at a certain point, you have to just sort of decide like, Okay, this is actually more trouble than it’s worth

TR:
a decision, each individual has to make for themselves. Yet, there are some real world things to consider as a guideline,

Andrew
I had a Kindle, and I just like kept on cranking size up and up and up, had started to meet enough blind people and talk to enough blind people, the writing was on the wall. They were like, text-to-speech, man, it’s where it’s at. You’ve just got to listen. I just sort of went all in and kind of made it like a project for myself. Like I’m going to learn how to read text to speech. It took me a while until I found Voice Dream Reader. That app was a game changer for me. And Bookshare, which is a online library for blind and print disabled folks, which has millions of titles, those two tools in unison. That’s the power combo for me. Over the course of the last three years, while I was writing the book, I was also kind of training myself to be a blind reader.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What about Braille? You mentioned that in the book you were headed that direction?

Andrew
Yep. Yeah, I’m holding tough with Braille. I mean, it’s incredibly frustrating to be so slow, after so many years, I think I started in 2020, maybe, or 2019. Even. It’s been a journey.

TR:
In the book, Andrew discusses first learning Braille with a sighted instructor, then a season Braille reader gave him some strong advice,

Andrew
that guy’s teaching you bad habits, like get rid of him. And I was like, Oh, right. Blind people know how to read Braille, like that guy was sighted. And I don’t think he knew what he was doing. And then I found the Hadley Institute, amazing service. It’s a free mail order correspondence course, for Braille. If you hang with it, do everything they tell you to do, you’ll come out the other side with Braille. I’m still super slow. I tried to touch Braille at least once a day just to like, keep it in circulation. Last night, I tried to read a book to my kid, my father’s Dragon is a great kids book that we’ve read before. I’ve read that book a bunch of times with him already. So I sort of know the sentences, but still, I just sound like, (reading very slowly)then… he… said, hey… guys…, how long can I expect my son who’s 11 Now to like, roll with me on that. And he’s sort of like patient because he knows I’m like trying to get better. But it’s a struggle.

TR:
Every aspect of our lives are affected by disability. Jobs or our careers. Our real concern, is the way we make money, feel a sense of purpose. For many, it’s how we identify, it’s often the first thing we ask when meeting someone new, “So what do you do? ”

Prior to reading The Country of the Blind, I assumed a writer experiencing blindness would have an easier time moving forward in their career, magnification of screen reading software, along with word processes and access to the internet, chances are they can perform the work. But actually being able to perform the work is only part of the struggle

Andrew
for the kind of writing that I like to do most, which is going out into the world hanging out with people that I want to write about taking notes, and then doing research, reading articles, and so on. The heart of it is that reporting process where you’re out on the scene, long form narrative nonfiction, you gather facts, but you also gather sensory data, like any creative writer has to have sensory impressions. If you think about literature, or the novel, it’s all about these visual descriptions of people. And those are sort of these windows into their character. And so I think about that a lot, both on the level of like, just being an artist and having artful sensory descriptions that convey this kind of mood that I want, but also as a journalist, am I going to be reporting somewhere and miss the story because I can’t see it.

TR:
That’s understandable, especially if you’re new to disability and unfamiliar with an adaptive way of thinking or creating accommodations, but this is 2024. And there are lessons to be learned from those who blazed trails before we ever set foot on a new path. Andrew tells us about one such example.

Andrew
Ved Mehta, who moved to the United States from India when he was a kid. He ended up becoming a staff writer at The New Yorker, which is one of the premier places to publish that kind of narrative nonfiction. He was there during the celebrated William Sean era, writing nonfiction was one of the greatest nonfiction editors of all time.

TR:
Mehta, who was totally blind and on staff still had to deal with questioning around aspects of his Writing,

Andrew
he would write these dispatches from different places where he would talk about his subjects twinkling wintry eyes set against the mahogany Brown of his study and so on. He would have an assistant often with him, met who was doing the interview and, and he was doing the writing, but he might say to the assistant, describe his eyes for me, and use that.

TR:
precede just about any occupation with the word blind. And I’m pretty sure a version of this conversation exists, questioning the blind person’s accommodation, blind accountant, blind programmer, blind orientation and mobility instructor, blind, audio description Narrator or writer. Hmm,

Andrew
maybe if I’m using the Be My Eyes, virtual volunteer five years from now, if I’m reporting and I use that to gather some details about somebody’s pronounced cheekbones or their tousled hair, I think that that’s a totally legitimate way to report, you can look at that as an accommodation. Ved Mehta needs an assistant in some context to fully do the reporting he needs where I might need Be My Eyes to finish the job. People look at that as like almost a disqualification. You didn’t run the race unassisted, you had this help.

TR:
The unfairness, the hypocrisy, makes my blood boil.

Andrew
But, I think if you take a step back and you look at technology, or even just like tools, in general, we’re all getting assistance all the time, from each other from other people and from technology. disability might mean you need different kinds of tool, different kinds of technology, different kinds of personal assistance, but it’s not categorically different. If you think about any journalist, any writer, if they’re sighted, don’t need assistance in gathering visual details. But they certainly are reporting things that they haven’t seen with their own eyes, almost any piece of nonfiction writing will have a reconstruction. If I’m writing a story, and I want to talk about when you first became a podcaster, I might interview you and say, okay, describe the scene for me, where were you? What was the day like, what were you wearing? Tell me all of it. And then I write that scene as though I were there even though it was 20 years ago, and I was 100 miles away.

TR:
The same people questioning accommodations, go gaga for AI.
Ableism is real.
Ableism isn’t just an external thing done to those who are disabled. In The Country of the Blind. Andrew bravely shares an experience where he attends a local chapter meeting of the NFB in Missouri. Here’s an excerpt from the book with Andrew narrating.

— Andrew as Narrator
I had noticed the blind woman in a wheelchair using a strange device that looked like it somehow converted the text on a laptop screen into metallic Braille. I had noticed the other people with multiple disabilities and the modest scale at which the group was operating, arguing over how to spend their tiny publicity budget. If I had gone to the meeting to find other blind people whom I might commiserate with, or learn from or befriend, the first impression was more off putting than I had expected. Part of it was surely just geographical culture shock, but a greater part was a different kind of culture shock, or discomfort with disability.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What do you think your experience would be like? Now knowing what you know and feeling how you feel? If you went to that meeting for the first time? How do you think it would be different?

Andrew
Just to preface, it’s me being super open about the, I guess you could call it internalized ableism that I felt where I’m just looking at this group of blind people, like, what do I have in common with any of these people, like, get me out of here,

TR
Andrew receive some real criticism from blind people about this part of the book.

Andrew:
Today, in retrospect, going to that meeting now, like I know, Gary wonder was there. He’s the editor of the Braille monitor, somebody who is more engaged with blind intellectual life, which is something I’m deeply interested in, then like, most people in the in the world, that guy alone is somebody I should have, like, grabbed and had a long conversation with, but at the time, all I could see was a group of disabled people who felt very different from my image of myself. So having the patience to spend longer than I did spend at that meetup, having the courage to actually like, talk to people as people rather than just look at them through this sort of other engaged the way I do

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I get it. For folks to get mad at that, I don’t think they realize what’s really going on like you being honest about that, is that process of checking your own ableism. You can’t get to a point without doing that work.

Andrew
Totally

TR in Conversation with Andrew
putting that in the book is inviting other people to do that, too.

Andrew
Thank you for pointing that out. Plenty of blind people said to me, just what you’ve said, where they’re like, that was me. And these are people, some folks who have been blind their whole lives. It’s not like it’s only somebody who’s like, has this site privilege or somebody coming at it from the outside. I think any blind person can have that perspective, and many of them do. And I’m with you that it felt important to take that risk of making myself seem like a real jerk in order to expose some of that ableism that a lot of us carry around.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
That’s the other thing too, that you, you included your wife? Did you talk to her before you include? Because I was like, oh, yeah, I don’t know if I could do that.

Andrew
I think she’s within earshot listening to me talk to you right now. So you know, you might hear the door burst open. And you know, she might

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Come on in.

Andrew:
She might jump on the mic. But, uh, yeah, I mean, like, there were definitely moments where I was like, I want to write an interesting book. But I also want to be married for the rest of my life. And I don’t want to jeopardize that. So there were a lot of tough conversations that we had. A journalist should never give their source a copy of the text to change. You can fact check it by saying like, is this true or not. But with Lily, it was a very different situation. Like, we just sat down with the book in front of us multiple times, like and did sort of a find, for her name. And then just like, read every sentence of what do you remember about this, and a lot changed in those conversations.

TR
You can’t overstate the importance of good communication. having these conversations, no matter how uncomfortable is so important to a relationship.

Andrew
It was like a way for us to talk through some of those issues. Even though a lot of that stuff was difficult. And like, I’m sure she would have been happy to see all of her name just like completely scrubbed from the book. I think to her credit, like she recognized the importance of including for the same reason you just said about the picnic scene. I don’t think I had read a book that was really honest in that way about how difficult the partners journey can be to and the trickiness around the way that your partner is entering blindness at the same time you are, it was worth the difficulty and the risk in order to start that conversation, not just in my own family, but maybe in others as well. Then

TR:
there’s the ableism we experienced through our society. In The Country of the Blind. Andrew writes about a poem read during a service at a synagogue.

Andrew
The refrain that the poem says over and over again, is fall to your knees and thank God for your eyesight. You just sort of have to sit there with your family, as like a whole room of people just sort of appreciates that they aren’t blind. I certainly still encounter it. I think one thing that’s changed is that that moment marked the kind of beginning I think for not just me, but for my family to sort of have a politics around it. It was kind of wild to me that Lily found it annoying. And then it wasn’t just me.

TR:
Everyone in the family is adjusting to disability. The question is, will that be done alone, or together?

Andrew
My son, I feel like I’ve sort of trained him to be a critical thinker about it. I will be watching something and he’ll sort of perk up when there’s like a disability reference that seems off. He’s in fifth grade. And at the beginning of the year, they were doing this exercise about guidelines for how to be a good community for each other. And one of them was like, be respectful. Even if the person has a disability. The line that caught his ear was even if they have a disability. He raised his hand and was kind of like I don’t know about like, even and the teacher was like, oh, yeah, that’s good. Like something was bothering me about that. But I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. To me that shows that he is really internalizing some of these critical disability thinking that I’ve sort of come to that makes me feel really proud and excited.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What’s your son’s name?

Andrew
Oscar.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Is that like a head nod to your grandfather?

Andrew
It is. It is.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Oh, very cool. (Laughing)

Andrew
He was a playwright. His name was Neil Simon, one of his best known plays that got turned into a TV show and a movie was “The Odd Couple”.

— Music begins Theme song from The Odd Couple
— Narration from the opening of the Odd Couple
On November 13, Felix Unger was asked to remove himself from his place of residence. That request came from his wife.

Andrew
my wife, Lily, when we were trying to think of baby names. She said, Well, what about Felix? My first thought was the odd couple because Felix is the sort of more fastidious neurotic member of the odd couple. I was like, No, it can’t be Felix. Oscar, that’s who you want to name a baby after.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
A hearty laugh!

Andrew
. She wasn’t even thinking of “The Odd Couple”.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I hope he’s not like Oscar though. He’s not pulling out sandwiches from the bed?

Andrew
He’s got a little bit of both, I would say.

— The Odd Couple theme music comes to an end.

— Music begins A funky baseline opens to a smooth mid tempo R&B groove.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What was your experience, if any, with disability arts prior to 10 years ago, when you opened up your cane?

Andrew
Hmm. That’s a good question. I think I’d encountered it in the art world. When I first learned about the work of Christine Sun Kim. She’s a Deaf artist who does really interesting work around like sound or like representations of sound, interesting stuff with captions. That would have been on that level, or certainly, like mainstream blind musicians, that would have hit me on that mainstream level. That movie, like I think Sound of Metal, but really, it was not on my radar.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
If they’re in the mainstream, I don’t consider that disability culture. That’s just me. Are they making the art from a disability perspective? I think that’s the way I draw that line.

Andrew
My book is a mainstream book, you know, like it’s with a commercial publisher? Does that mean that like what I’m doing is not from a disability perspective, it’s kind of a bigger question about identity. Does your work fall under the category of the identity just by virtue of your having the identity? Or does the work have to like, be about the identity for it to be included? I think it’s kind of a spectrum.

TR
What qualifies something as disability art? disability culture? What makes someone a disability artist. Questions really worth exploring. I’ll do some of that in the ongoing self portrait episode.

Andrew
That’s the question that I’ve been wrestling with really like through the whole process of writing the book and figuring out my own identity as a blind person is like, is it supposed to be central? Or is it supposed to be incidental? When is it Central? When is it incidental? I read an interview with this bio ethicist who was blind named Adrian ash who died a couple years ago, she was very adamant that blindness was totally incidental. Her friends joke that she was 20, before she realized she was blind, because she just was like, it doesn’t really affect my life. But then when she applied for a job, and it was pretty obvious that she didn’t get the job because she was blind, because the person was basically explicitly like, I don’t know how we would hire a blind person, that’s when she became blind. That’s when it became a central part of her identity, that kind of politicizes it in a way that I don’t totally track with. If we’re talking about disability arts, I do want to center blindness as a writer, in some ways. There’s other times when, when I want it to be totally off to the side.

— Music comes to a close.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What has the response been like today? And I’m wondering if there’s any difference between blind and non blind readers?

Andrew
Yeah, it’s been great. I’ve gotten some criticism. But over my overwhelming experience has been one of people really responding positively to the book, it seemed safe to assume that like people whose experience was close to mine, would be like, oh, yeah, I recognize that like the first time I used a cane, stopping driving. But one of the things I learned in writing the book is that blindness is such a diverse experience, not only in the ways that people experience blindness, but also all kinds of other life experiences intersectionality’s that can inform one’s relationship with disability. The cool thing for me, after the book has come out has been just seeing folks whose experience is very different from mine, also resonated with a book that makes me feel like I captured something about blind culture Blind politics in 2023. The experience that extends beyond my narrow experience of it,

TR:
the response Andrew hears the most from those who are not blind?

Andrew
“I learned a lot.”

It’s shocking sometimes how little people really stopped to consider the experience of blindness. And so I think one thing that book has done is really just like cracked that world open a lot more for a lot more people

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What was some of the criticism you mentioned that you receive.

Andrew
One of the things I really tried to do in the book is like not just have it be a memoir. I think the parts that people respond to the most are like me writing about my relationship with my son or with my wife are very emotional, personal moments. And I understand that, I think it’s important to include those, but I also get pretty nerdy. And talking about history of audio description, or the history of Braille history of the organized blind movement and NFB versus ACB versus AFB. Plenty of readers who didn’t know anything about blindness pointed out that it’s wild that there’s like these ancient beefs between blind people. Why are blind people fighting? Are they supposed to be in solidarity with each other fighting the fight to raise Blind people up. there are certain readers who are like, dude, enough of the alphabet soup? I don’t care, let’s move on.
That’s one criticism.

TR
You should judge for yourself. Get the book.

Andrew
The book is on Bookshare. It’s on barred I read the audio book myself. Every blind person who hears the audiobook is like how the hell did you do that? The short answer is Rp. 5% of my visual field still hanging in there.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
You did a great job reading that book. Part of that I’m sure was from your podcast experience and narration and stuff.

Andrew
Totally. Yeah.

TR
You can learn more about Andrew, his work and find him on social media by visiting his website AndrewLeland.org.

There really is something for everyone in this book. But here on Reid My Mind Radio, we’re especially interested in those adjusting to disability. while Andrews experience is specifically about blindness. I want to strongly encourage those new to disability to read The Country of the Blind, you’ll see yourself, your family, you’ll hopefully confront your own feelings about what it means to be disabled. And don’t worry, the final say is always up to you.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
So what’s your current citizenship status for the country of the Blind? Are you a citizen? Are you just visiting? What are we doing?

Andrew
I’ve applied for a green card. It’s been approved and now I’m just like waiting in the mail for it. So I’m like technically a citizen but I don’t have like the full papers yet.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I can’t give you those papers, but I can tell you that you are an official member of the Reid My Mind Radio family sir.

Andrew
That’s much better news. That makes, that makes my day. And I have to say, you know, I didn’t want to I didn’t want to like mess things up by flattering you too much, but, you know, if we’re really talking about blind President? It’, you got my vote, it’s all you Thomas.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
(Laughing) Well, I appreciate that, but I am not running.

Andrew
Alright, well, I’m still gonna write you in. Gonna get my slate and stylus and braille you right on to the ballot.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
There you go. All right. Well, if I get enough, I’ll think about it.

TR
You know, I really do appreciate Andrew’s vote. But even more than that, I appreciate all the effort put into the book, sharing his experiences and time with the Reid My Mind Radio family. Sharing the art of adjustment.

I’m very hopeful that Andrew will come back and share some of his experiences around audio description. We of course, had a little conversation about that, but I think a future episode on what we were specifically talking about would be nice. That’s all I’ll say for now. Well on that topic at least.

— Music begins Hail to the Chief.

— Tap on microphone

TR
— Over exaggerated clearing of throat.

(In a presidential style speech )
. My fellow citizens, as we move forward together united as one, no matter where we land on the spectrum called blindness. We should ask, not what the blindness has done to us. But rather, what is it that we will do with our blindness?

We should also remind ourselves… to rock with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.
Just remember, that’s R to the E, I, D!
— Sample (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro

Peace!

TR in presidential mode
And may God Bless Humanity!

Hide the transcript

TR:
Hey, what’s up Y’all. Just a quick note that this episode contains real brief mentioning of depression and suicide. But it’s brief! Now onto the episode.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Is there anything that you would want to tell a young Krystle, now, if you could go when you first got diagnosed, ?

Krystle:
I would say to myself that it’s okay. It’s gonna be okay. It’s okay to feel what I’m feeling.

TR:
That’sKrystle Allen. You heard her episode last week, at least you should have. If not, please go check it out. This season in The Art of Adjustment, I’m following each episode featuring a guest with what I’m calling a continuous self-portrait. I’ll take parts of our conversation that connect with my own personal experience and discuss it here with you. It’s a way to move a bit beyond host and producer. I do it occasionally. But we’re family after all, and families share with one another. If you or your family member is adjusting to blindness or any disability for that matter. I know things feel confused, lots of uncertainty and a wide range of emotions going on at the same time. But that uncertainty starts to fade. And yes…

Krystle:
It’s okay. It’s gonna be okay.

TR:
Things start to become Krystle clear. I’m Thomas Reid. Welcome back to Reid My Mind Radio.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
I often ask guests to time travel back to their early days of adjustment and give their younger self some advice on adjusting to disability. It’s not a clever question, but it does allow for reflection. It’s specific to the individual but the advice often applies to others. For Krystle, who went inward and spent a lot of time and quiet thought. I’m sure she had the burning question. Will I be okay?

Here’s the setting from my personal experience with blindness. I just moved into a new home in a new state with a new baby, my six-year-old and my wife. My brother recently passed away and that left my mother alone in the house. Nothing felt “normal”. I realized today, I wasn’t grounded. No wonder it felt like I was having an out of body experience.

Krystle says she was quiet for a year. My blindness came as an adult. A year of silence I don’t think was ever an option for me.

Allow me to reflect.

TR talking to himself:
I’m waiting for my interviewee to arrive. We had an appointment.
Sound of Voice Over on iPhone
pm

— Sound of telephone ringing.

“Hello”
TR:
My guest was actually supposed to join me live in person. It’s all good though. She lives pretty close to the studio.

— Door creaking

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
How are you?

Marlett:
Good.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You wanna state your name for the people

Marlett:
Marlett Reid

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
you want to give an image description?

Marlett:
Oh, wow, I didn’t come prepared to describe myself. Dark skin, oval face full lips.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You know, I do a lot in the area of description and talking about this stuff. seems kind of odd that my wife would not have an image description. If somebody asked me, Hey, Thomas, what’s taxes. I could tell them

Marlett:
Not really.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I can talk about taxes.

— Noise

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Hey! What was that? (Laughing)

Marlett:
The chair. The chair’s going down. That’s not me! (Defensively)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
(Long loud boisterous laugh)

Marlett:
Oh God! (Annoyed)
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Did it fall by itself? Because it sinks. It’s annoying, right?

Marlett:
Yeah.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So I invited you here today to chat a little bit. And I really just mean a little bit. (Laughing)

Marlett:
That’s fine.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So we’re gonna go back. I want to know if you remember after I returned home from the hospital, and I was laid up in the bed like that time. And to be honest with you, I don’t have a lot of memories. I want to know, what do you remember about those first? Let’s say the first month, which was February, it was right around this time. What do you recall about that?

Marlett:
I just remember being sad. I do remember saying to myself okay, I must find a way to fix this.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Fix what?

Marlett:
Find a way where we can get your site back.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:

How did that work out? (Laughing)

Marlett:
It didn’t workout.

Tr
I can joke about this kind of thing today. Marlette well, not so much. I won’t joke about blindness or any aspect of disability with just anyone though. My daughters and I can really find some of these things quite entertaining. But I know they aren’t ableist and I know they don’t see me as less than.

I know my wife doesn’t see me as less than it’s just not what tickles her Funny Bone. Any movie featuring a grown man screaming? Well, she finds that hysterical.

— Scene from “Blank Man” where he gets slapped and screams like a “Girl”.

Marlett:
I was worried about the future. It seemed like you were depressed, you weren’t motivated?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Was that based on anything that I was doing? Because I just got home and I was just like, I was just here , to cut my head open. (Laughs)

Marlett:
Yes, I know they cut your head open. (Reluctant giggle)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Give a brother some time!

Marlett:
I did give you time. but I knew that you can’t stay in that space.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Was there a timeframe? Like, did they tell you okay, “he shouldn’t stay in bed for more than whatever or he needs to get out and start head spinning by three days?” (A mocking voice)
What was your expectation in terms of the time?

Marlett:
Raven was young.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
She was a baby.
Marlett:
right, she was a baby.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Months, like two or three months?

Marlett:
Right! So I wanted to make sure that she kind of got the same experience that Riana got, you know, with daddy daughter day, spending time with daddy. And so far. I felt like, if you stay there, that’s not going to happen. Like, I want you to get up.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I remember her hanging out with me. But go ahead.

Marlett:
yeah, of course. You always been a great dad, you’ve always been great. I cannot take that from you know, even when you weren’t. I always say when you weren’t like fully there. I needed my husband to get up.

TR
Here’s the thing, y’all. I don’t think I was so called down for that long. And it wasn’t necessarily my choice.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So from my recollection, I swear Marlett…

Marlett:
Your what?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Huh!

Marlett:
Your what?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Did I say that wrong?

–The couple laughs

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I’m gonna have to replay that. I’m not even gonna take it out.

recollection. Did I not say that?

But from my that, I swear, it probably wasn’t two weeks, it was probably more than that. But I swear it felt like it

Marlett:
It definitely wasn’t a month. I didn’t give you a month. I remember in my head saying he’s gonna get out of this bed one way or the other.

TR
I wasn’t in the bed. I just wasn’t going out. I mean, I was going out to doctor’s appointments. But that’s it. Where was I supposed to go? In February, after eight days in the hospital as a newly blind person with no blindness skills. But I do understand Marlett’s point and concern. She was looking to get back to normal.

marlett:
If I was going somewhere and everybody would be like where’s your husband? Are you by yourself? Because if I asked you, and even that took a while. So you were just like, Nah, I don’t want to go. I don’t want to do that. This is important. Because prior to that surgery and you coming home on February 4, we didn’t do a lot of stuff.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No, of course not.

Marlett:
And I understand. But that’s an important part of this journey.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You think so?

Marlett:
For me, as to why you want to know why I didn’t give you that much time. Because we were going through it.
(TR Laughing)

Why is that funny?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because!

You’re not saying like we were supposed to be doing something?

Marlett:
weren’t. We weren’t.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because, I had the cancer going on. And everything and we were doing doctor’s visits.

Marlett:
Yeah, that’s about it. Yes.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And we had a new baby.

Marlett:
We had a new baby. And we were just, we were just here in the house.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Okay! And so that so you saying that played a factor in you? Okay. I never even thought that that would but Okay, that’s interesting. You did? Okay. I don’t.

Marlett:
Because remember, we used to do things you would always come up with things to do, because it really was you. And we would do a lot of things.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Ok, All right. Good context. Good context. That’s cool. I’ll accept that. I’ll accept that. So you’re saying that plus the fact that you were like, Yo, you just thought he gonna be depressed, which is probably natural. Yeah. For you to think that and for somebody to feel that.

Marlett:
Yeh, that was fine.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
But you’re saying he ain’t gonna stay there. I’m not gonna give him to the end of February.
Marlett:
I don’t remember the timeframe, as well as you seem to, but I know in my head I was like I’m going to give him two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Okay. All right. So that’s probably why I have that timeframe. So this is probably right. I don’t think we went out but I think you started asking me stuff, bugging me about no disrespect, about going out. What’s the time that you remember going out?

Unknown
)With some delay) I don’t remember.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Well, let me go back. Think about that. Put that in the back burner. And I want to know, what were you hoping to accomplish by telling me that I need to get up and get out?

Unknown
We’re a couple. So if somebody asked me, Oh, can you come over and let’s do this or do that, and they had their spouse, I wanted mine there.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So what were you hoping to accomplish?

Unknown
I wanted you to get out of where you were, I didn’t know where that would lead.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You’re talking about mentally…

Marlett:
I would ask you, are you okay? How do you feel? And you would say that you were fine. You never really told me? You never really talked about it?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
What?

Marlett:
I’m afraid Well, you know, is he thinking suicide. And you would say, I’m fine. In my mind, I’m thinking, Okay, fine. We have to figure all of this out. If he’s upstairs, we can’t figure this out.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Hmm! So this was before the Karen and Shelly.

TR
shout out to both my rehab counselor, and my orientation and mobility instructor. I know across the country in different states, including Pennsylvania, there are all sorts of reasons that delay newly blind people from getting the training they need, yet we expect them to get back out into society without the necessary skills. It took a couple of months for me, and that was mainly due to Marlett’s advocacy. These skills were a crucial part in helping me build back my confidence.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
What do you remember about the first time going out?

Marlett:
? The stairs.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
The stairs?

Marlett:
Yeah, everybody would stair.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh, stairs.

TR
(Chuckles)What a great example of the communication challenges couples face after blindness. Chances are when marlett said stairs, she opened her eyes wide or gestured in some way. If I could see her, I would immediately know that she meant stairs as in watching our every move, not the stairs leading to a new level. Communication is key y’all!

Abbot & Costello
Well, then who’s playing first?
Yeah.
I mean the fellas name on first base.
Who?
The fella playing first base for St. Louis.
Who.
The guy on first base.
Who was on first?
What are you asking me for?

TR in Conversation with Marlett

Where did we go?

Marlettt:
I don’t remember, Sorry.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Nah, ok, okay. I think I do.

Marlett:
Where?

TR
I’m Pretty sure it was Easter. So that means it was actually either the end of March or April, we went to my sister in law’s house. The only thing I recall about that day was the husband of a new neighbor couple that they befriended. We just moved out here. So I didn’t know this guy. He was acting like he knew me. He kept going on about how I need to get out the house saying stuff like we hear Your friends are here.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And I didn’t even think about it until I’m thinking about this now. Was that like the purpose of that? For me to get out the house?

Marlett:
I don’t even think that. I think that came out of his own like…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
so he just assumed this?

Marlett:
I’m guessing so!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I should have punched him in his face.

Marlett:
I don’t know why!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Cause I didn’t know him? And he was talking mad junk. like, Yo, you know, we’re friends, this is what we got to do and it’s like, yo Bee, you don’t know meSon. I just met you. Who are you?

TR
Okay, that was a little much. That’s a lesson in getting caught up in your own conspiracy theory. I mean, who does that? Knowing what I know today, I think this kind gentleman probably meant well, he was trying to be positive. I’m sure he wasn’t comfortable around someone newly blind. That was probably hard for him. I’m sure he didn’t know what to talk about. He was probably just trying to let me know he was on my side.

(Brief pause)

Ahhhh!

Two things can be true at the same time.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I don’t even know you, son.

TR
We weren’t friends. But then again, if we’re gonna keep it real, Crystal reminded me that some friends turn out to not really be friends when disability enters the picture.

Krystle
And I lost a lot of friends at 16 because my friends thought that I was strange. Now that I was losing my eyesight. Because I had a cane. They felt like Krystle you can see you don’t need that cane with you. And I’m like, I do need the cane because I can’t see everything anymore. We were going into a club one time y’all need to take that why you got to take that with you. I’m like because you not gonna hold on to me all night, are you? You know, so some friends. They kind of grew out of our friend season.

TR
Fax.
By the way, I have some thoughts about an episode about the impact of disability on relationships. If you’re interested in sharing some of your stories, hit me up at ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

Marlett:

Thomas in Conversation with Marlett
I’m not interrogating you!

Marlett:
I answered it by saying that this was important because we used to do things together. Go out and this was the plan when we came up here. And we had a hiccup in that plan.

TR
hiccups are annoying, but they pass. Hiccups can be distracting. That’s both to the person experiencing them. And those in earshot.

I watched several newly blind people over the years fall victim to distractions, I worry about those new to blindness today, we have a lot more access in comparison to 20 years ago. Of course, that’s great. But it can also be a real distraction for some.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I think about this. If I had access to the stuff that I have access to now, movies with AD, the books, the…

Marlett:
The books, You were going through …
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I wasn’t going through that many books because it was just those CDs…

Marlett:
Right, and they were just coming in the mail…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, there wasn’t. I had like two, but I didn’t have the NLS yet.

Marlett:
Okay,

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I didn’t have that yet. What I’m saying is that if I had Netflix and stuff like that,

Marlett:
yeah, two weeks!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I would be still in that bed Bee. (Laughing)

Marlett:
We would argue, but I would have said, two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You would have had to take my phone. (Laughs)

TR
I’m not saying that access to these things isn’t valuable. Heck, no. I think it’s more about how we use that access. Temporary healthy escapes are fine, but please, don’t stay there. During my conversation with crystal, I was reminded that what can appear as a distraction may actually contribute to a person moving forward.

Krystle
I think I was silent for almost a year. All I would do is go to sleep. Listen to music. Oh my god tweets southern hummingbird album. That was it. For me. That was my medicine. I used to listen to that all the time in the house. Crystal’s

TR
We know disability requires an adjustment from the individual and their families. It got me wondering, did Marlett have any music that helped her during our early days,

Marlett:
it was a song that I listened to when I was younger. When I would watch you I remember you know, Marlett you did that. When I was going through something, I would just lay on the, like it was a futon or couch or couch or whatever it was called. And I played this one song all the time. The lyrics were written by Charlie Chaplin, Geoffrey Parson, and John Turner. And the person who sang the song was Diana Ross.
— Music starts softly in the background
And the songs name is smile.
(As Marlett recites the lyrics the song’s lyrics are sung in the back ground.)
There’s a section and she says,
Light up your face with gladness
Hide every trace of sadness
Although a tear may be ever so near
That’s the time you must keep on trying
Smile
What’s see use of crying
You’ll find that life is still worthwhile
If you just Smile

And I replay that over and over and over. I know that the song was about strength that we had an ourselves it was also for me to go into that time. So when I would come upstairs, and I was like, he has to smile again.
He has to get up.

TR
I would have never guessed Diana Ross. If anything, I thought it was gonna be Mary J Blige. Marlett, she’s more of a movie person than a music person. Sci-Fi all day.

All forms of art can be encouraging. What’s your thing?
For me, it’s definitely music. Both lyrics and instrumentation. I found myself repeating Chuck D’s line from “Welcome to the Terror dome”. I got so much trouble on my mind. Refuse to lose.
That song just gets me hype for anything. But there were two albums and specific songs that really resonated with me. Kanye West “Jesus Walks that was that old Kanye!
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And I’m not a religious person, you know? But the devil is trying to bring me down. Jesus Walks. Like something’s trying to bring you down. The devil’s trying to bring you … you know that was my mother’s thing, anything that’s negative is the devil.

Marlett:
When things are going good, the devil comes in and he tries to pull you down.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
the other one was when you got me because you thought I would like it, the John Legend CD. You were like, you’re gonna like this. This is your style. And I was like you don’t know my style. (Laughing) And I’m like ah damn, she knows my style.

The couple laughs.

When it’s cold outside there’s no need to worry because I’m so warm inside. You give me peace when the storm’s outside… yeh, that joint. That joint right there! Woo!

— Swoosh effect
TR:
Hey Y’all, not sure if you noticed, but in these last two episodes, there’s been a bunch of references to music or dancing which sort of inherently implies music.
I created a public playlist on Spotify with songs that were inspired by or actually mentioned in these two episodes.
I’ll link you there on this episodes blog post. If you’re on Spotify, search for Dancing with Reid My Mind Radio.
Back to the episode
— Reverse swoosh effect

TR
Art really does play a significant role in our adjustment. multiple roles in fact. Distraction, escape, healing, encouraging, motivating, both as a consumer and a creator.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Thinking about it now, you know a lot more now then you did then about well this experience but in general, I would say mental health. Right? How do you think you would handle that today? What do you think your reaction would be? Would you still have a two week timeframe?

Marlett:
Oh yeah!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You would? (Laughing)

Marlett :
Yeh, hmm hmm, yeh!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So I’m correct in saying I never had a chance to get more than…

Marlett:
No you didn’t. I definitely would have had two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You think two weeks is enough?
Marlett:
I definitely would have two weeks. And not not to get over it. But to get up. So if you think …

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I was up! I wasn’t laying in the bed.

Marlett:
I needed you present. You were not present.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Ok, I may have not been present.

Marlett:
I needed you present. I needed to. I’m not saying that. Two weeks because you would sit a lot in that chair. You had a chair that you were sitting in that chair and I…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I sat on the couch.
on the couch.
Marlett:
It was a chair over here and maybe the couch downstairs, but you sat.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No the chair wasn’t up here that you talked about in the room. That wasn’t up here at that time.

Marlett:
I had a chair on my side and you had a chair…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh wait, wait, wait, way you write you write you write? I didn’t sit in that chair.

Marlett:
You sat in the chair. You sat in that chair, sometimes it would be all the way back. And I was like Oh, he’s got to get up outta there.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh, maybe I did. Damn, now I don’t remember.
I remember being downstairs.

Marlett:
You weren’t really downstairs too much.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I was watching Comedy Central.

Marlett:
Okay!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
That wasn’t up here oh, maybe I had it up here too. Oh, you might be right.
I don’t know if I’m going to use any of this. (Giggles)

Marlett:
Huh!

TR
The small details that we think are so important at a given time, apparently fade away. I guess they don’t really matter. What I get now is that my wife just wanted her husband. How can I be upset with that?
Two weeks. That’s it y’all!

— Music begins A mellow romantic groove.?
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Yeah. I was a little angry about the two weeks. But I feel like because I was thinking that two weeks was to go and get out. And I feel like you’re right. It was just to get up. And then to get moving. Damn, this might make me look bad.
look bad. But it is what it is. It’s the real truth.

Marlett:
Did you think you were perfect?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No.

Marlett:
Is that your ego?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No.

Marlett:
So what is it then? For you to think that you deserved more time than what you got? Why? Why would you think that?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because it was hard.

TR
It was hard because I wasn’t ready? Like Krystle said in the beginning.

Krystle
It’s okay to feel what I’m feeling.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I guess you get props for this then.
Well, thank you. (Kiss)

Marlett:
I think that was my job to do as your wife.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
That’s cool. I could still say thank you.
TR
Shout out to eyes like mine, Krystle Allen for inspiring this episode.

Shout out to the Queen of the Reid Compound, My wife of just about 30 years y’all Marlett. I appreciate you sharing your time. It’s tax season. So she extra busy right now. But also sharing your truth.

Since we’re talking about sharing, why not share this podcast with your friends and family? There’s lots of folks out there adjusting to disability individuals and their families. And yes, of course, there’s some real challenges. I just think it’s easier when you don’t go it alone.

That’s why we’re here.

Now here’s what you can say to your friends and family.

Hey, fill in the blank. I need to tell you about this dope podcast I just know you’re going to dig. It’s called Reid My Mind Radio. You can find it wherever you get podcasts. They have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
Check this. You have to know how to spell it the right way. I mean, it’s really the only way.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You want to do the sign off?

Marlett:
Sure.

R to the E I D!

D, D,D! (Giggles)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You don’t do that part!

The couple laughs!

Marlett:
Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Marlett:
peace

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