Reid My Mind

TR:

Welcome to another episode of Reid My Mind Radio.
This podcast brings you compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability.

I’m Thomas Reid, your host and producer. Occasionally, I feature stories from my own experience as a man adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult. Today, we’re continuing with our ongoing look at Audio Description.

Reid My Mind Radio has several episodes exploring the topic. They range from consumer perspective discussions and opinions to profiles of those in the field. In fact, you can go back to when ReidMyMind was solely a blog; I’ve been writing & thinking about the topic for a minute y’all.

Today we’re bringing you a conversation with some Audio Description professionals, through the lends of consumers as advocates. What can we learn from their process and experience about AD that can help improve our advocacy efforts?

The answers and more are up next.

Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music

Eric:

My name is Eric Wickstrom. I am the Director of Audio Description for International Digital Center otherwise known as IDC, based out of New York City.

I run everything from the initial order through the delivery of AD projects.

TR:

Eric got his start in AD about 10 years ago while working at the USA Network. this was shortly after President Obama signed the 21st Century Telecommunications Accessibility Act now known as the CVAA. This mandates that major broadcast companies including some cable stations like USA, are required to provide a minimum number of hours of described programming each quarter. Over time, this number increases with a goal of 100 percent.

Eric:

I stepped up at that point and kind of offered to help spearhead the charge. Working with the heads of my department we were able to figure it out pretty quickly and get started building a library, got in compliance with the FCC. I did that for about 4 to 5 years. By the time I left we had the biggest library on broadcast television in North America.

TR:

About four years ago, Eric left USA and began working for IDC.

Eric:

We do everything from editorial stuff, color correction, quality control, media processing conversions audio mixing sub titling and all sorts of localizations. We have a full service dubbing department now that will do English to foreign language dubbing or the reverse. Pretty much A to Z anything you need we do

TR:

I wanted to speak with Eric to learn a bit more about their process specifically as it relates to us as consumers who are advocates.

We start with identifying some barriers to Audio Description which fall into two categories; quantity & quality.

First, budgets.

Audio: Music…

Eric:
It’s a very, very small part. Depending on the size of the production I mean there are cable networks that spend 12 to 15 million dollars an episode on productions and I can tell you in those cases your AD budget would be a percentage of one percent. The cost of producing a good , I’m talking about a good AD track; hiring the right people and getting it done the right way, your average AD track’s going to cost you less than like the Kraft’s service table does for a production of a T.V show.

Audio: Sound of a Adding Machine

TR:

We’re talking about a few thousand dollars.

Definitely not an amount to consider as a burden on the production of a television or film project.

So let’s not even call budget a challenge to AD.

Eric:

I just generally believe a lot of people don’t know what it is. My father and step mother were asking me three weeks ago about what AD is and I’ve been doing this for 10 years. If they don’t know by now…

[TR in conversation with Eric:]

Well, that’s just parents! Laughs…

Eric:

You know!

TR:

Truth is its much more than parents. I’m sure we’ve all encounter someone who has no idea about Audio Description. And like the good advocates we are, we explain it and probably encourage them to give it a try. The more awareness the better. But really, we need those in positions of power to be aware.

[TR in conversation with Eric:]

How is it that, production companies aren’t that aware of Audio Description at this time in 2020?

Eric:

A lot of production companies are aware of it now, the bigger production companies. They work with the bigger networks, the ones that would be mandated based on rating. Smaller production companies that traditionally work for like an HGTV or History Channel it wouldn’t surprise me that a year and a half ago when they were finally mandated to provide it, people looked at each other and said what is this. It wouldn’t shock me. If you haven’t been exposed to it you wouldn’t know about it.

TR:

It’s true, most major films are released with Audio Description. However, what about the older content that seems to remain undescribed?

Eric:

Well that’s changing. I know that like Paramount I believe did a big push two years back for AD to get it included on all the DVD releases. That back filled a lot of content that hadn’t been previously described.

Audio: Music ends in reverse.

TR:

Who watches on DVD anymore? We’re streaming.

Eric:

The problem with the streaming services is not all of them require AD. At least not for everything they air.

TR:

The issue is licensing. Streaming companies pay movie studios and television networks fees for the right to run these films and shows.

Eric:

They only have the rights for a year or two and then it goes away.

TR:

So if streaming network X pays to add AD, when it moves to streaming network Y…

Eric:

That service would have to commission their own AD track.

I think the answer there would be if every streaming service required AD, across the board then these companies that are selling the rights for these things would have to commission a track and then the track would follow that piece of material from service to service.

TR:

There’s different reasons for content not beings described. As advocates, an understanding of these can help direct our energy. In general when we find content has no description at all.

Eric:

You’d want to reach out directly to the studio itself. As far as television programming goes that would be a conversation for the network. If it became an issue about quality, it might be a conversation with the network, but then that conversation would have to happen with the production company that provided the show in the first place.

TR:

The push for quantity doesn’t automatically lead to improve quality.

Eric:

A lot of AD is mandated by the Federal government and a lot of networks look upon it as they have to do as opposed to something they want to do. That’s unfortunate because I think that’s where you lose a lot of opportunity for quality or conversations about the best way to do it.

TR:

As consumers, we want both; quality and quantity.

Eric:

It’s like anything. If I give you a gig bowl of frost bitten ice cream, yeah, it’s a bowl of ice cream but… a giant bowl of Ben & Jerry’s or Haggen Daaz that’s the difference. As more and more networks are pressured into providing the service, I’m hoping that they take a moment and say hey let’s give them ben & Jerry’s.

TR:

Shout out to Ben & Jerry’s!

Doing it right consists of three components;
The script (Audio: “Word”)
Narration (Audio: “Aw Yeh”)
And the mix (Audio: “In the Mix”) or making sure you can comfortably hear both the film’s dialog and AD narration.

Eric:

It’s all about the writing in my opinion. Without a great script you’re never going to create a great track of Audio Description. I don’t care if you get a James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman to come in and read the thing.

If I were going to make a pie chart, the scripting would be about 80 to 85 percent. That’s how important the script is.

Audio: Music

TR:

Breaking it down further, here are the ingredients for a good Audio Description script.

Audio: Sounds of typing. ” What are you doing? “I’m writing.” – From Finding Forrester

Eric:

It has to identify the right things, it has to keep the character names right, not over explain things. You don’t need to write he shoots the guy, you hear a gunshot you know what happened. That’s a big failure with Audio Description is the overwriting of scripts and the over explaining of things.

TR:

Developing a staff of writers for Eric comes down to deciding whether to recruit or train?

Eric:

I have found over the years and this is just my experience, this goes back to my years coaching youth basketball 20 years ago, I coached young kids, 4th and 5th graders who never picked up a basketball in their lives and I so much prefer coaching those kids because it’s so much easier to teach somebody from the ground up than to break them out of bad habits they already developed.

TR:

Eric has seen a lot of bad habits from writers with years of experience.

Eric:

There’s too much good enough is good enough. For us and our standards at IDC, no we’re not striving for good we’re striving for great!

TR:

I agree the script is that important. So I spoke with head Audio Description Writer at IDC, Liz Gutman.

She first heard about Audio Description from a podcast. No, it wasn’t this one that would have made for a fantastic segue. The podcast is called 20,000 Hertz.

Audio: Music ends in reverse.

Liz:

It’s a great podcast. There was an interview with a woman named Colleen Connor who runs a training retreat in North Carolina. She is blind. She has theater training; she’s a performer and a creative person herself. She and this other woman Jan Vulgaropulos, who’s been a describer for a number of years, run this training retreat. I had never heard of Audio Description before, I didn’t know what it was and hearing Colleen talk about it, explain what it was and the purpose it served and what’s good Audio Description and what’s not good Audio Description. My mind was completely blown.

TR:

It wasn’t just Audio Description that blew her mind open.

Liz:

I’m a non-disabled sighted white lady and I have never really had to examine my own biases, my own assumptions, the way I move through the world. The way I perceive others to move through the world. I’d never really had to challenge that from a nondisabled point of view before that weekend. It was a profound experience.

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

That really does fall right in line with what we do at Reid My Mind Radio. I mean it’s all about adjusting and examining our misperceptions. Can you tell me what that was like?

Liz:

Yeh, absolutely. At the risk of sounding like a total jerk I was terrified. I didn’t know what to expect. I didn’t know what was okay to say or ask… Should I offer to help or not. Is it okay to say Blind? All this stuff that now seems very 101 to me, I was lucky to be amongst a group of very kind open people who encouraged me to ask questions and were very open about answering them

TR:

Ready for more, Liz completed the AD Retreat and attended ACB’s Audio description project training. There she was paired with a Blind Mentor.

Liz:

Her name is Myra. She’s great! I’ve gotten to go on described museum tours with her. She took me to see a described performance of Waiting for Gadot. That was excellent. She’s also taught me a lot about experiencing culture in different ways and that helps me become a better describer. Understanding what goes in to theater description and what goes into museums and art description. All of those things inform each other, I think in real important ways.

TR:

Soon after attending her trainings, Liz began freelancing with an Audio Description provider.

Liz:

Not too long after that I really lucked out and was referred by a guy who’s now a friend who I met at ACB who worked at this company IDC who was hiring a full time writer. I went in and chatted with them and as they say the rest was history. I’ve been at IDC since August of 2018.

Audio: Music

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

So you’ve only been doing Audio Description for two years?

Liz:

Yeh… (Laughs)

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

Laughs… Oh boy! Wow! Aw man.

Liz:

I know, it’s wild. I have a lot of impostor syndrome to get over.

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

Laughs…, Yeh, Well, you’re definitely not an impostor, c’mon!

Liz:

Laughing… Oh, thank you!

At the risk of sounding big headed I do think I’m good at my job. I would not consider myself an expert by any means, but I am very curious and I do love, I love, love love this work. I sort of intensively been reading and talking to people, watching stuff with Audio Description and kind of immersing myself as much as possible. Which has just been so rewarding. Not just because I love the work, but this community is just unbelievable. Describers and consumers of Audio Description alike. I’m just like floored and grateful always to be doing this.

TR:

It’s said it takes about 10,000 hours of practice to become an expert in any given field. But what about the related skills that comes from prior experience? That has to account for something, right?

Liz:

My first job out of college was watching T.v. and writing trivia questions about it that would then be linked to product placement. So basically gathering marketing information to sell to advertisers.

(Laughs…) I’ll just put it this way; I couldn’t watch any T.V. or movies without noticing products. (Laughs along with TR)

That brands of cars, that brand of soda (laughs) Oh he’s wearing that brand of that t-shirt. I couldn’t unsee it.

TR:

That attention to detail serves a purpose today. Add a minor in creative writing in college, publishing a cook book, writing for a well-known food blog and running her own business for 10 years, Liz has a wealth of experience and knowledge to draw from. She wrote about chocolate for goodness sake!

I’m not sure how many ways you can describe mm delicious!

Audio: Music ends

That’s quality AD – language that succinctly evokes an image.

At IDC, writers are selected for a project based on their specialties or specific interest.

Liz:

One guy just sort of tends to usually do a lot of the fantasy actiony stuff. Someone else does a lot of reality stuff.

Our department head will kind of weigh all of those things between scheduling and who might be best suited to write it and assign it to the writer.

TR:

Just because there are specializations, doesn’t mean you’re working alone.

Liz:

What I love about working at IDC is that it’s really collaborative and we all ask each other questions. We get the best of everybody. If you get stuck on a phrase or can’t decide how to deal with a certain thing and you want to describe all of the stuff but you only have time for one thing or help prioritize.
A lot of what we’ll do is take a poll. Do you guys know what this word means? If more than half of us do then we’ll use it!

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

I’m wondering when instances of cultural competence come into play, how that works through in the writer’s room. So what does your writer’s room look like and how does that play? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Liz:

Yeh, absolutely. And that’s a really important question and one that we’re constantly considering and making sure we take into account. We’ve had conversations about the finer points of a person in a wheel chair, person using a wheel chair, and why the phrase wheel chair bound is not okay. All the finer points of describing someone who is different from you in any way.

TR:

Differences like race or skin tone. Yet, the AD guidelines specifically call for excluding race or color.

Liz:

Unless it’s crucial to understanding the plot. And if so, everyone’s race, ethnicity needs to be called out and mentioned specifically.

I do think representation is super important and I do think it’s important to mention it just so that a Blind Asian kid or a Blind Black kid so they can know oh cool, just in all the ways that representation matters right?

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

Yeh, 100 percent. I think it’s important for a Blind white kid to know that too. To say hey these people are in this movie.

Liz:

Right, and to not make the assumption.

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

Absolutely.

Liz:

If you say like oh, a tall woman and a short woman and a Black woman then you’re making the assumption that everyone else is white and white becomes the default.

TR:

As advocates believing in inclusion for one group, I’d hope that means inclusion for all.

If so, we should absolutely promote diverse writer’s rooms. That diversity should include the widest range of identities; race, ethnicity, gender, disability and LGBTQ plus representation.

Audio Description is all about providing access to information that isn’t conveyed audibly. Sighted people have this access and process it individually. Some may choose to question the casting choices and others may find them empowering. No matter how one chooses to use that information, Blind people deserve that same level of access.

Liz:

We also struggle with as describers, having enough time to include any of this stuff. Sometimes you don’t get to add any description to somebody before they’re named or even after they’re named if it’s something really dialogue heavy.

TR:

This lack of time is extremely important. This has to be a part of our awareness conversation. It’s not enough that networks and studios have to provide AD. We need them to understand the value and make it an equitable experience. Creating the space for AD in their projects makes that possible.

I’ve been ranting for years about making use of pre-show AD.

Liz, who in addition to writing also narrates and directs AD sessions at IDC, agrees, it just makes sense. Especially in the fantasy genre where the imagery is unlike anything people would be familiar with.

Liz:

When a creator builds this entire world from scratch for the audience and I only have the spaces between the dialogue to describe it, I do my best, but there’s no way I can do justice to the scope of that. So I’d love to have an extra 15 to 20 minutes to just talk about the world; each village, each type of character and all of that stuff because it’s so integral to really enjoying the series.

Eric:

That’s the writing and from there you talk about voicing.

TR:

Eric’s referring to narration – the second of three components required in Audio Description.

Eric:

When I say the writing is 85 percent of it, that’s not to imply that the voicing is not important. The voicing is extremely important. You can certainly ruin a great AD track with a bad voice. We’ve seen it happen.

Audio: “Do you hear the words coming out of my mouth?” Chris Tucker in Rush hour

Eric:

Finding the right voice for the track itself to try to match the story to the VO (Voice Over) as much as possible. But also just you want to make sure you get the right tone. Some places use a one size fits all approach to voicing where the same voice person will do a wide array of projects. Nothing wrong with that it’s a creative decision, a creative approach. We try to really fine tune every choice of voice with the script. That’s usually a conversation between me and the writers as they get into a project, maybe half way through I’ll have a conversation with that writer and say hey who do you think. That’s a benefit of having a team that’s been together for years. They sometimes have an idea before I even do about who’s going to voice something.

The last part of the process which again, very important and generally overlooked is the mix.

Audio: “As you hear it, pump up the volume!” Eric B & Rakim, I Know You Got Soul.

Eric:

A lot of times you hear AD tracks and you hear a really jarring shift in volume? That’s because the company’s feeding through an automated program. It’s a cost cutting move. It doesn’t save that much money. It really hurts the quality. I don’t like it. We won’t use it. Period!

Eric:

The last part of our process is a full QC pass.

TR:

QC or Quality Control. Checking the final production for all sorts of inaccuracies.

Eric:

If we’re misidentifying a character and this happens often. You’re writing thousands of words, it’s easy to type Bob instead of Mark. Bob enters the room. Bob leaves. Well maybe that was Mark.

TR:

Additionally there’s checking the levels of the mix, listening for mouth clicks and pronunciations.

Eric:

When that track leaves our facility it’s gone through quite a production line of work.
[TR in conversation with Eric:]

Would you employ Blind folks for the quality control part of it?

Eric:

You know that’s something we definitely discussed. We would. As far as the quality of the mix, the overall experience of the AD, yes!

TR:

IDC already holds regular focus groups bringing their writers together with AD consumers.

Eric:

That’s a very important part of what we do. We’re not making unilateral decisions about what the Blind community likes. All of our decisions are informed by the Blind community.

TR:

Audio Description advocacy needs to include creating opportunities for Blind people in as many possible paid positions throughout the production process.

By possible, I don’t mean based on the current process. There are many ways to get something done.

Eric:

Covid especially added another level of stress because everybody was scattered. We were used to writing as a team in a room together. Like a regular writer’s room in any television show we’d sit there and bounce ideas off each other. That’s taken on the form of daily Zoom.

As far as the Voice Over people goes, a lot of our VO people work in New York City. We use a very diverse roster of people. I had to figure out how dozens of people were going to be able to record VO. Some of them are already actors and Voice actors that have their own setup, but many of them didn’t

TR:

The pandemic demanded job accommodations and a new workflow which can be beneficial to the disabled community.

Eric:

One of the things we said this year at IDC we wanted to do, we wanted to get some Blind people involved directly with the narration of Audio Description tracks. The challenge of that was that we didn’t do a lot of remote recording. We weren’t setup for it.

TR:

. Since this interview IDC has made some progress on that goal. I reached out to Eric for an update on his progress.

Eric:

I can tell you it’s going very well. You could speak from personal experience. You were nice enough to be the first person to jump in with us and help develop some workflows. I was very happy with how the quality of the track turned out. The feedback we received through social media and through the clients at Netflix., they were very happy as well. We’ve already launched our second project on Netflix with a Blind Narrator. The third one’s in the works. We’ve onboarded two other Blind Narrators and I have three more on deck.

TR:

I’m excited for the opportunities this presents for all Blind and disabled people intrested in AD Narration.

Eric:

Kelly McDonald who we used on the second project that just launched, Sam Jay’s Three in the Morning on Netflix. He’s a radio host up in Canada. In fact, his co-host Romnea was onboarded as well. They have a unique ability because they’ve done radio for so long and I think Thomas you said you have this ability as well from podcasting all these years to be able to actually hear a track in their ear and repeat it in real time. At the same pace, same inflection. Originally we thought using Blind Narrators is going to be something that’s gonna be easy to do with reality shows like the one you worked on SkinDecision. Stand up specials like the one Kelly worked on.

TR:

It’s a matter of being vocal about our abilities.

Eric:

We’re not the first studio using Blind Narrators. That’s not accurate if people are thinking that. There’s plenty of narrators out there that have been working for years doing narration and podcasting, radio broadcasting. So the talent is out there.

TR:

With that said, if you’re interested and have the ability to record professional sounding audio, stay tuned and I’ll let you know how to contact Eric.

Eric:

We’re putting our best foot forward as a company in trying to be inclusive and accessible using as many talented people as we can.

There’s no excuse based on what we’ve discovered over the last few months, every studio creating Audio Description should be using Blind Narrators to voice the material they’re putting out. And in addition to that we’ve onboarded some Blind people from the community to work in our QC process as well.

TR:

These conversations with Eric & Liz helped shed light on the challenges to AD right now and the future.

Company’s cutting costs by automating the mix and employing synthetic speech are underbidding for jobs. Multiple people in the business have said how this has directly impacted the fees other AD production companies are able to charge. How soon before other companies are forced to cut corners in order to stay afloat?

It’s imperative that as consumers and advocates we demand quality – not that cheap sort of accessibility that gets slapped on at the end in order to comply with a federal mandate.

Eric:

That has to be the push of the community to develop universal standards. There’s no approved vendor list per se like universally, everybody’s kind of left on their own. It doesn’t take much more effort to do it right.

TR:

AD unfortunately, is viewed as an expense and not one that generates revenue.

Eric:

And that’s wrong. There’s 6 to 8 million visually impaired people in America at the last estimate. Every year as people live longer that number goes up. Those 6 to 8 million people are part of families. Families are using Audio Description so everybody in the household can enjoy watching television together. Especially now in this time.

That track is made for 6 to 8 million people but its impacting tens of millions of more people.

TR:

Remember, the AD budget is a few thousand dollars. Your annual streaming network subscription will set a family back over $150.

Eric:

. If that encourages a family of four to subscribe to your streaming service or pay extra for cable it’s more than paying for itself. You really don’t have to draw that many families to break even and then to turn a profit it’s just a few more.
just left on their own. It doesn’t take much more effort to do it right.

TR:

Making sure AD is done right inevitably comes down to the Blind community.

Eric:

If you hear a track either on a streaming service and you like what we did or you didn’t like what we did, reach out and let us know. I’m always open to feedback.

Audio: Music

TR:

Feedback should be a gift, so make it constructive.

Eric:

Don’t just say hey you suck!

Well, thanks, that doesn’t really help!

We’re trying to provide a service. We love this we want to make sure we’re doing it right. I always say if I want positive I would just ask my mother what she thinks.

TR:

Do you have a project that would be a lot better with Audio Description?

Are you interested in getting involved with AD as a narrator and have the ability to produce a high quality recording?
Do you have some comments on a specific project with IDC produced AD?

Reach out…

Eric:

I’m always happy to talk about AD. It’s a passion for us. It doesn’t have to just be business inquiries. Anything you have to say feedback otherwise … you can find us at IDCDigital.com. You can search for Audio Description, fill out the form and it will get to me.

TR:

You can also get to both Eric and Liz on Twitter:
@IDC_Eric
@ Liz_IDC

TR:

I hope this episode contributes to moving the conversation around Audio Description advocacy to be more about good & bad Audio Description, the ways it could be improved and the inclusion of more Blind people at every point in the workflow.

We know why AD is important to us as consumers. It goes beyond watching movies, television and theater. It’s relationships that come from these shared experiences. It’s opportunities for conversation, education, entertainment, imagination building and more.

What about the perspective of those producing AD?

[TR in conversation with Liz:]

When you speak about it you’re very passionate about Audio Description. Why?

Liz:

That’s a really good question. (Long Pause) Selfishly, it plays to my skill sets really well. It requires a large vocabulary, I’ve been a bookworm my entire life, but it also has really strict parameters. Audio Description provides that framework I find challenging in a really stimulating way. And on top of that it provides a service. That creates meaning for me.I go to work every day and I get to write, think hard about the best way, the most vivid and concise way to convey something that’s on screen. So that someone’s who’s listening to it will get the same feeling that I have watching it. And to help bring us all in to the same level. Especially since I have become more familiar with the Disabled and Blind and Low vision community. I have friends in that community now. I care about their experience.

Audio: Stay Golden

TR:

Eric expressed a very similar sentiment and noted that he really appreciates the feedback from the community. He shares his wish about AD in the future.

Eric:

I look forward to the day where I don’t get as much appreciation. Because it just becomes the norm. I look forward to the day where Blind consumers become pretty complacent about it. Oh yeh it’s got AD, great! It shouldn’t be something special and quality shouldn’t be something that’s special.

TR:

A big Shout out to Eric Wickstrom, Liz Gutman and the entire Audio Description team over at IDC. It’s official; you all are now part of the Reid My Mind Radio family!

Eric was a really kind coach. After submitting my first draft he shared his comments which were incredibly helpful and I think go beyond AD narration.

Eric:

You suck!

TR:

That really isn’t helpful!

You know this isn’t the last you will hear on this topic. In fact, I have some more coming up soon so stay tuned. In order to do that may I suggest you subscribe wherever you get podcasts!
Remember transcripts & more are over at ReidMyMind.com. And yes, tell them that’s R to the E ID
(Audio: “D and that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick)

Like my last name.

Audio: Reid My Mind Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:

What’s up Reid My Mind Radio Family.

I had to take a little break from the podcast. I’ll explain more about that in a future episode as its directly related both to this podcast and adjustment to blindness.

This episode is actually being posted on an off week. So that means expect to get another next week. In fact the two sort of support one another.

We’ll be moving forward with episodes every two weeks after that taking us through the end of the year, with a break beginning some time in December.
For now, let’s get it!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio IntroMusic

TR:

One question that I suppose is asked by just about anyone adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult, especially working age, is what sort of work can a Blind person do?

If this is your first time listening to this podcast, I’d encourage you to take a listen to the archives. We indirectly answer that question in many episodes where we profile different individuals most often impacted by some degree of blindness or low vision.

Today we’re going to continue with our look at Audio Description or what some around the globe call descriptive video. Specifically, the opportunities available for Blind and low vision people in the creation process.

To do this, I reached out to Colleen Connor. Colleen is a podcaster, web accessibility tester, Audio Description Consultant and Co-founder of Audio Description Training Retreats.

Diagnosed with Cone Rod Dystrophy as a child, Colleen lost most of her usable vision by her Junior year in high school.

CC:

I’m grateful to my parents because they didn’t treat me any differently. I’m a black belt in Tai Kwon Do, participated in school fully and never was held back from doing anything. And so you know I decided to super, super logically major in musical theater (Laughs…).

[TR in conversation with CC:]
Laughs…

CC:

because that’s so practical.
[TR in conversation with CC:]
What did your parents say about that, about that choice?

CC:

I think they just wanted me to be able to do what I wanted and what I was good at. They weren’t thrilled but they didn’t actively stop me. They knew how passionate I was about theater and acting and studying dialects and singing.

TR:

Colleen’s introduction to audio description isn’t what you might have suspected.

CC:
I ended up working in the Spy Museum in Washington DC. They had a described tour there but it was very out of date.

TR:

Guess what Colleen offered

CC:

Hey I’m visually impaired, can I update this for you. And I was too Naive to ask for money. Much like a lot of my work I did it for free.

I was in theater and musical theater almost my entire life and I had no idea that Audio Description existed. No one had ever told me about it. I didn’t know it was something I could ask for. Once I discovered the audio tours in museums someone mentioned to me about Audio Description of plays and musicals and live theater and I was blown away. And then of course I discovered that they were also doing Audio Description for film and television.

TR:

That project at the Spy Museum?

CC:

I rewrote this tour. I added some tactile elements. People were really impressed by it. I got hired by Cortina Productions after that to work on the audio tour of the George W. Bush Heritage Library and Museum in Texas.

TR:

Doing the work and having it well received is great, but AD meant more to Colleen.

CC:

This could be kind of my way back into theater. I started looking into it realizing that there isn’t a lot of training.

TR:

Maybe you’re familiar with the saying, get in where you fit in. That’s what Colleen did.

CC:

As those of us who can’t see we are the users of Audio Description. Therefore it’s my belief that we are your best source of quality control. We are your best source of feedback. One of the things that I started doing was critiquing people. So I would contact people whether it was from a live show or a TV show or film and I would say here are some notes about your description. I thought you did this well, I think this could be an improvement, I don’t think you should have used this voice artist. I started from a place of editing and critiquing.

[TR in conversation with CC:]

How was that received?

CC:

Sometimes it just straight up wasn’t. (Laughs…)
So my messages are somewhere in the ether, I’m sure. Other times people were amazed and then especially as far as live they were very hungry for feedback and critique because they do these shows and half the time nobody’s even listening to their description and so to get legitimate feedback. Some people have an ego about it they think they’re infallible but most of the time people are like thank you so much , what else.

So I realized in a sense it would be ideal if you have people teaching audio description or if someone was an audio describer to have a consultant who is visually impaired or blind who is a user of the experience.

TR:

While in the role of Quality Control Consultant during a conference, Colleen came across another opportunity.

CC:

I met my business partner Jan Vulgaropulos and she is a professional Audio Describer.

TR:

Jan, who specialized in live theater description had a question for Colleen.

CC:

Listen, I’m thinking of starting my own training. Would you do it with me and start a company?

I said yes, let’s do it lets create something new! We both decided that rather than a classroom kind of conference where you’re there for two days 8 to 5 with fluorescent lighting in a hotel trying to get the basics of Audio Description that we would create Audio Description Training Retreats, which is our company, and we would have people in sort of a natural environment . We would do courses in Audio Description . That has become part of my passion and my focus.

TR:

Back to the earlier question; what sort of work can Blind people do? In this case as it pertains to Audio Description.

CC:

I’m not only there to give the student’s feedback, I co-teach Audio Description. I help teach them about Disability awareness and the history of Audio Description, where it comes from. The update as to what’s going on now. We go over kind of our guidelines for helping people establish Audio Description.

And then my colleague does the actual description teaching. The main goal is to give people as much feedback and performance opportunity as possible. So we have our students do a lot of description.

TR:

The hands on approach enables these future describers to figure out what aspect of Audio Description they like.

CC:

Hey you know I like writing, but I don’t want to do the voice artist thing or I don’t think I could do live theater and just say what I’m seeing in real time that’s too hard. Or they might enjoy that challenge.

TR:

I don’t want to be one to say that something can’t be done based on the current process. It may appear that way until someone comes along and changes how it’s done.

Yes, right now, live description and writing the description for a film or television show requires sight. But wordsmithing doesn’t.

What are the other challenges for a Blind person to participate in this work?

How about narration?

CC:

When you are recording in a studio, what normally happens is the script is on one screen and then on the screen next to it the film or TV show is playing and it has the time stamps on it and the Sound Engineer will say ok you have three seconds to record this line will do it three times ready? And they will play the clip and you’re watching the clip and trying to say what’s on the script at the same time.

TR:

Ok, maybe it’s me but this doesn’t seem to be a real obstacle. It’s a process that’s currently in place but there’s no reason it couldn’t be done differently.
For example, a Sound Engineer could cue the Narrator.

A Narrator/Editor with time stamp info alone could easily run through and record and be sure that the narration falls as indicated.

CC:

I think if you were doing it independently you could be successful at it. I think some of the larger studios everything has to happen so fast in post-production that they’re like you have one day to do this. You have one day to record the Audio Description and they just don’t think Blind people can do it.

[TR in conversation with CC:]
Huh!

TR:

That sounds like the biggest obstacle to me, attitude.

CC:

As far as quality control, as far as the people who should be editing, I think that should be Blind people. We’re more attuned to consuming Audio Description as our means of delving into a story and we have more of a legitimate leg up to say something like this voice over artist is super annoying and takes you of the story. The script writer repeated this line twice. At one point in the scene you named this person this and now you’re calling him this. Those kind of things are what we would be more efficient at editing.

TR:

For example, tell me if you think there’s something off with this narration.

[Audio: Shooters Season 2]

This is from season 2 of a Netflix series called “Shooters”. No offense to the Narrator but why in the world is he practically singing every line. I had to abandon the series. I just couldn’t do it. This guy!

CC:

There is room for more employment for visually impaired and Blind people. It’s just a matter of the same that it every was which is unfortunately we have to break down the barriers. We have to be the ones to say , no like we can edit, we can be involved in this, we can be voice artist, like it can happen.

TR:

Colleen is currently a member of an ACB Committee tasked to create an AD Accreditation. They’re developing guidelines that define audio description and requirements for live theater, plays, movies and television.

CC:

It’s not just for the describers, we’re also going to be creating a certification for quality control or consumers of Audio Description. My goal is to make sure that Blind and visually impaired people have a chance to also be certified as quality control and as description consultants.

TR:

When it comes to standards and guidelines for creating Audio Description, there’s a lot of room for growth. How to handle diversity is just one question.

CC:

How much do you say about a person? How do you very quickly categorize somebody if you need a really short term for this one burly guy?What do you say? What’s appropriate to say? What terms are you going to use that may in five in a year, may be no longer appropriate?

A lot of times you may want to reference something, but the main default as far as guidelines will most likely be only if it’s relevant to the story do you need to reference something and then you need to keep in mind you have to reference for everybody because that’s why it would be significant.

TR:

To learn more about Audio Description Training Retreats you can reach them on Facebook or Twitter @ADRetreats or visit ADTrainingRetreats.com.

They have some trainings taking place this fall so go on over to the site and get all the information.

[TR in conversation with CC:]

And your podcast? The name and where can folks take a listen?

CC:

My personal kind of podcast and any of my videos and information can be found at BlindInspirationCast.com

TR:

I’ll have all of these links at ReidMyMind.com on the episodes post.

Shout out to Colleen Connor for taking the time to speak with me for this episode.

I think we may hear from her again in the future regarding AD and more. She and I have some things in common. For example, like when I asked her to try using headphones during our interview and I noticed she too like me enjoys making up songs about nothing.

CC:

Humming a tune…

“Getting my headset!”

[TR in conversation with CC:]

Laughs!

# Closing

TR:

Hey, I’m not sure if you all know this but right now, there’s an incredible sale taking place just about wherever podcasts are distributed.

It costs nothing, absolutely nada, free 99 to subscribe to a podcast including this one. So do yourself a favor and…

Subscribe!
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We have the comments section on the blog, ReidMyMind.com.
The email; ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com
The Reid My Mind Radio Feedback Line where you can leave a voice mail: 1 570-798-7343

I would really love voice messages that I can share on the podcast. If you don’t want to call, you can grab your smart phone and record a voice memo and email the finished recording to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I’d love to hear and share the voices of those who are listening. If you want to send a message but don’t want it shared just say so and it’s all good.

I appreciate you listening and if you liked what you heard please rate and even review the show via Apple Podcast. And please, tell a friend to listen. Spread the love, man!

You can always visit www.ReidMyMind.com, that’s R to the E I D like my last name!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

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RS:
My name is Roy Samuelson, I’m a Voice Over Artist.

Audio: Multiple demos of Roy’s voice over work.

TR:
That’s up next, right here with me T. Reid
your host and producer of this podcast, Reid My Mind Radio!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio theme Music

TR:

In 2018 I published some thoughts on Audio Description. That was followed up with an additional conversation on the subject. Today we’re continuing this exploration of Audio Description or AD. This time from the perspective of Voice Over artist and AD Narrator Roy Samuelson.

First, Roy answers the question, what exactly is a voice over

RS:

Voice over is anything you hear with a voice. That could be in a video game a character that’s talking. A commercial where someone’s introducing a product. A promo where there’s a T.V. show being advertised, someone’s introducing when it’s going to be on and what channel.

TR:
As a kid, Roy and his class was assigned the task of interviewing anyone they wanted.

RS:

I wanted to interview someone att eh radio station. When I went there one of the first things the announcer showed me was how to angle the mic so the p’s won’t pop and I thought that was the most amazing thing I had ever seen in my life. Laughs!
This little adjustment could make such a difference. So my curiosity was definitely started then.

TR:

That curiosity along with some additional experience helped lead Roy to voice over.

In his early 20’s he landed a job with then Disney’s MGM Studios theme park in Orlando Florida.

DisneyJob

RS:

I would take over as a gangster and take the audience through all of the scary scenes in movies. I’d have a microphone and in between shooting things I’d be narrating what was going on around the place.
Every 6 to 8 minutes I’d get blown up and start the thing again. So it kind of became like an exercise in just building the skill of talking to people who are paying attention to the story that they’re seeing. That kind of introduced me to voice over.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
What makes a good voice over artist?

There’s a bunch of different opinions. I like to see voice over as a form of acting. It’s a character whether it’s a narrator, a character in a cartoon or even just a commercial. It’s a character telling a story and being part of a story and sharing that with people.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

Do you have a background in acting as well?

RS:

I do yeah. I took a lot of improv classes. In school I had a lot of opportunities on stage and that’s really helped a lot.

TR:

That acting experience eventually landed Roy in a script writers group.
These meetings brought together professional script writers seeking feedback from actors who would cold read their scripts. Meaning, there was no preparation on the part of the actors.

RS:

We would read the characters and read the description and afterward the feedback was all about the writing. So the spotlight was definitely on the script and not the actors and I felt that was so enjoyable. I could play and I could have fun do these ice cold readings without a lot of preparation. The more times I practiced, the more experienced I got with cold reading. When I found out about audio description it seemed like a real segue way from what I had been doing at the script writes and even as far back as that Disney job along with all the other voice over work that I’ve been doing. It felt like a right fit.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

So how did you actually find out about Audio Description?

RS:

A friend of mine referred me and I didn’t literally knock on the door, but I knocked on the door for about two or three years just letting them know I was available and strongly interested and the response was well we’re kind of booked up right now we got everyone we need but thank you for checking in. It wasn’t a brush off it’s just that’s where it was. Every now and again there would be an opportunity where I could fill in for someone and I did. It was so exciting and so much fun and I said thank you so much any other time please let me know, oh sure we’ll let you know. Another year passed . It took a little while.

TR:

In order to get better insight on how Audio Description is made, I asked Roy to walk us through the process
from his perspective.

RS

Audio: Upbeat music…

The scripts are pre-written by, they’re called Describers.

I call myself a Narrator, Audio Description Narrator.

The scripts come to me pre-written and in it are obviously the words that I say. There’s a bunch of queues that tell me when I say what I say. For example, a queue could be time code, where I’m watching the screen and reading the script at the same time and on the screen there’s a time code (like a stop watch). When it gets to a certain point in time that’s my queue to start talking.

there’s visual cues or audio queues. Sometimes it’s the last few words of dialog that the character is saying. It could be even a pause between a long section that I’m speaking. First two sentences then there’s a 2 or 3 second pause before I start speaking again. There’s all sorts of different queues that they use.

TR:

Process makes production efficient. But
they can also unintentionally exclude people from
participating.
Visual cues for example could limit a blind Audio
Description Narrator’s ability to independently function in
such a position.
When I asked if laying down all of the voice over work and
editing at the appropriate time positions was an option,
Roy explained further.

RS:

That could be a way. I’m on a few one hour shows, when we’re all in sync and the script is ready, we’re able to finish in about an hour. They give me four hours total, just in case something can come up . For the most part, it’s not real time but it’s pretty close to real time.

TR:

Watching over the entire recording process is the AD Director. Familiar with the script, they’re listening for any mistakes including mispronunciations and time overlaps.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
So you’re sitting there watching the time code and reading the script, what happens if you go a little longer? Is it just okay, take two?

RS:

If there’s one line that I did not speak quickly enough and the last few words and maybe the last few syllables are spilling over to dialog , as you know that’s not fun for an audience member. They do their best to adjust it either by having me go a little faster or they try to change the words or they even slip the audio that I recorded and make it slide in to fit just perfectly.

TR:

Fully aware that Roy’s responsibility in the process is voicing the narration, I still had to ask;

[TR in conversation with RS:]

How do they determine which narrator is right for a movie or project?

RS:

That’s a great question. I’m learning, I’m definitely on the action adventure horror side of things. (Laughs…) You know with Criminal Minds, the upcoming Girl in the Spider’s Web, the Inspector, Jurassic World. This is the genre that is pretty narration heavy and I do my best to go as quickly as possible without sounding fast. I’ve done some other projects that are more wonderful in the sense of awe inspiring, kind of take it all in sort of thing. Those are the sorts of things that I been cast. That’s something they know I can do and I would think the people that make the decision it makes it easier for them. Oh yeh, this is something Roy’s already done before.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

One that I talked about and this was my personal opinion was Black Panther. So Black Panther ended up being voiced by what sounds like a British White Man.

RS:

Oh!

[TR in conversation with RS:]
For me as the consumer, I thought it was a little disruptive…

RS:

Sure!
[TR in conversation with RS:]

… to the whole feel and aura of the movie.

RS:

Yeh! Absolutely.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

I ended up hearing from some other people who said that same British person voiced Captain America. They were like, I didn’t like the fact that it was a British guy voicing Captain America. People felt a little upset by that. What is taken into consideration when these choices are made?

RS:
Oh it’s so exciting I have so many things I want to talk to you about with
this.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

Okay!

RS:

I remember there’s a quote by Shonda Rhymes where she talked about normalizing instead of diversifying. I’m seeing so many femal voices, people of color voices all sorts of opportunities. I hate to say it, the stereotypical white male voice that has been so common is now not as common which is great. I think there’s many more opportunities different voices to be in this. I think it can only help the story. I think you named two really great examples. When you’re in a story you don’t want to be interrupted. So when the audio description comes in it shouldn’t be out of left field.

I do think these companies are more aware of the content of the story being told and they’re taking a lot of consideration into that.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
That’s good to hear.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
One of my complaints in terms of the script and how things are determined, what are you going to describe? So if I go back to Black Panther, there was a very interesting thing that I found out because it was being discussed. It was not included in the description at all it came up like months after on a radio program I was listening to. They went into more description about the spaceship. I guess in one of the angles when the ship came down, they said how it resembled an African mask.

RS:

Hmmm! (In understanding.)

[TR in conversation with RS:]

They all look different but I get a real sense of that. Plus the fact that the spaceship was created like that , that blew my mind! But I never got access to that information.

RS:

Oh!! (In further understanding.)

[TR in conversation with RS:]

So there was a decision made. Someone didn’t think that was important. So this is why I’m always wondering well at some point it seems to me that the writers of the description should be the writers of the movie.

RS:
Oh, I see.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

They have the vision right? the Director, they’re the ones making these decisions . So some of that information of what they want that consumer to feel , whoever that consumer is Blind or sighted, that should be passed along and so I always wonder, are there conversations between the audio description company and the actual producers and writers of the film. And it doesn’t seem like it. Maybe on like an independent.

RS:

I’m not sure which film it was, but I know it was a big budget film, they definitely cared about to make sure the audio description was heard and they brought in the team. I was brought back and recorded some lines that were very nuanced.

So I think there is a genuine care for the audience for audio description. I’m not going to make a generalized blanket statement on that but I think there are people who are involved outside of audio description but still want to care about the things that you’re talking about.

I’m not sure if Haunting on Hill house on Netflix is described. There’s an element of that series, after 10 episodes I was kind of familiar with the story line. There was an element that was shared on line and as soon as I heard it it was so obvious. It was one of those things like aw wow I didn’t even notice that.

But I think what you’re talking about, back to the Black Panther spaceship is that with audio description we are limited to … if a picture is worth a thousand words , there’s 24 frames per second you know it’s like… I’m not defending it but it definitely is selective. The audio description is by its very nature limited. I’d be curious if there is a way to have like I’m just brainstorming here but out takes or something else that goes deeper into the story to allow those visual elements. How exciting that would be.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

I think there is.

For the Audio Description experience part of it is so so frustrating. It has nothing to do with what you all are doing, it’s the technical side. When you go to a movie theater chances are they’re giving you either the wrong device or the device doesn’t work. So you have to run back over and find a manager. And in my case it’s always my wife. She moves a lot faster than I’m going to move so she’s doing it! Boom, boom, boom! And I feel terrible. I feel awful because she’s missing that part of the movie, but she doesn’t want me to experience it without it.
There’s all this time during the promos. Those aren’t described so I’m usually bored. It would also be a test of the technology because if the right track is coming through that’s telling you about the movie, then you know your stuff is working, you technology is working. This is exactly what they do in a show, like a Broadway show. They introduce you to the cast beforehand. They describe their costumes, they let you get acclimated to their voices, they’ll describe the set. All of that is done before the show. So I think like hey, why not put that out beforehand. Yes the movie is limited to that time, but the experience really does go past that time.

RS:

Wow!

TR:

Listening back to our conversation, I realize a few things.

First, I think I get a little enthusiastic about the subject.

Secondly, I referred to the issues encountered in theaters when using AD only as a technical problem. And while yes sometimes the problems arise from the technology, more than often I feel as though the problems stem from uninformed theater workers.

I’m still trying to figure out why when you let them know you’re Blind and want to use the Audio Description device they translate that to mean you want the device for the hearing impaired.

Come to find out, Roy is familiar with this faulty part of the process.

RS:

My mom wanted to watch a screening with audio description, same thing happened. It didn’t work. The exciting thing with that is the manager found out apologized profusely , they said it was a glitch . There’s other technology coming out. I want to say Acti View?

[TR in conversation with RS:]
Yes Sir!

TR:
Acti View is the app that allows audio description consumers as well as those using captions and enhanced audio, with the means of directly downloading their access solution. For more on this service and how it came to be, check out the episode where we speak to one of the founders.

RS:
That kind of stuff is starting to happen. I can’t help but think that this is an opportunity. The popularity of podcasts, audio books and how easily accessible those are for this audio description is kind of in the same world. Commuters who happened to be sighted can enjoy the experience of audio description and that can only help the audience get more opportunities that look forward to enjoying it.

Aw I’m so excited.

TR:

It was nice to hear that Roy and I share a mutual excitement for Audio Description. It made for a good conversation.

Not only did I appreciate hearing his enthusiasm for the subject, listening to him accentuates his ability to employ several styles in his narration work. Roy says he tailors his voice to the genre.

RS:

I gotta be part of the stories. I can’t sound happy and joyous all the time. Laughs…

TR:

Next time you’re enjoying a television show or movie with Audio Description and you find yourself thinking that voice sounds familiar. there’s only one way to be certain. Wait until the end of the credits and you hear;

Audio: Read by Roy Samuelson. (Audio Description from “Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom”)

TR:

You can connect with Roy on social media;
On Twitter @RoySamuelson and
on Facebook you can find him as Roy Samuelson Biz or
visit Roy Samuelson.com

Audio bumper

Audio Description isn’t new. The lack of AD in movies and television programming over the years since its creation amounts to exclusion.

The result, many in the Blind and Low Vision community feel as though movies are just not for them.

In 2019 however, there’s lots of reasons to give television and movies with audio description a try.

We have
the 21st Century Telecommunications Act on our side – leading to more content.
And we have multiple accessible ways of consuming that content.

. If you haven’t yet experienced AD either at home or in a theater , I urge you to give it a try.

It’s not just entertaining television and movies, more documentaries are including description. Something I’m personally happy to see.

The process of making video accessible shouldn’t itself be inaccessible to the community it seeks to serve. Blind and low vision people should have access to these opportunities.

Blind people come from all backgrounds. We’re Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native as well as white. We’re straight, gay, lesbian transgender. As we call for television and movies to be more reflective of our society so should the voices that describe these movies to us.

How do you feel about Audio description?
Holla back!
We have the comments section on the blog, ReidMyMind.com.
The email; ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com
The Reid My Mind Radio Feedback Line where you can leave a voice mail: 1 570-798-7343

I would really love voice messages that I can share on the podcast. If you don’t want to call, you can grab your smart phone and record a voice memo and email the finished recording to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I’d love to hear and share the voices of those who are listening. If you want to send a message but don’t want it shared just say so and it’s all good.

We’re going to continue to explore Audio Description as we move through 2019. So my best advice for you to make sure you don’t miss that and everything else in store…

Subscribe!
Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast Sound Cloud, Stitcher, Tune In Radio or wherever you get podcasts.
Visit www.ReidMyMind.com

So there’s no confusion, that’s R to the E I D like my last name!

Audio: Dramatic closing music from Jurassic World, Falling Kingdom RS: “Cut to Black”

Audio: RMMRadio Outro Theme

TR:

Peace

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