Reid My Mind

“Good Evening!”
Music begins: A funky break beat loop.

TR:
Tribe and trust!

Tribe and trust.

These were the two themes in the last episode with film maker Andres Jay Molina.
Well, for me at least, it was apparent that they play a big roll in the adjustment process. Not just for Jay, but in some way for us all.

When I refer to tribe, I’m talking about a community of people you identify with. Typically this includes support, encouragement and collaboration. It’s not about the number of people but rather the quality of the relationships.

Then there’s trust. First in yourself. As in having the courage and strength to live, speak and move through life in your truth. Whatever that is!

Then, trusting in others.

Even if their not a part of the tribe, which can test a person’s ability to trust.

For this final self portrait, I decided to sit with these things. Ask myself, “how do these things fit into my life today?”

Going into this episode reminds me of how I used to feel when my girls were younger and they’d sit with me in the kitchen as I prepare a dinner every now and then.

“Baby girls”, I’d say to them, ” I don’t know how this is going to turn out, but I guess we’ll see!”

And then one of my girls would say, “Daddy, you’re Blind, you can’t see! And then we’d laugh.

— TR & daughters in conversation laughing.

Take a listen to the episode featuring my girls earlier this season and you’ll definitely get an understanding of our humor and communication style.

I’m Thomas Reid and you are now rocking with Reid My Mind Radio!
— Reid My Mind Radio Intro
Andres “Jay” Molina:
When I first got to the nursing home I didn’t know anybody of course, So I was just hanging out by myself. And then one of the nurses told me, go outside, there’s people just like you, young like you, and you can talk to them.

But when I saw these guys actually, one of them looked Dominican, I’m Dominican.
And that attracted me more.
And as soon as I approached them, they just looked at me and saidcome on man you with us.
and I started hanging out with them.
And that’s when we became friends.

TR:
I wasn’t in any way alone during my early days of blindness. I had my family and some close friends. I even found another brother who I could speak with about this new experience we shared.

Yet, when I heard Jay talk about meeting the other brothers outside the nursing home, it reminded me how I wanted more of that in my early days of blindness.

Today, I believe what I wanted was acceptance and brotherhood. People in my life who really understood what I was now experiencing.
My family and others were sympathetic but sometimes you just want to be around those who you know just get it.

Details matter in relationships.

When I asked Jay for example, what was it about the group of guys hanging outside of the nursing home, that made him feel their words,

Andre Jay Molina:
Come on you’re with us.

TR:
… were true?

He was quick to say, they looked like him. They weren’t dopple gangers.
They just shared a culture and background. A Style of dress, haircuts or the way you wear your hat. It’s recognizable.

— Can’t Stop Won’t Stop, PCB Convention!

TR:
I used to serve as the Conference Coordinator for the Pennsylvania Council of the Blind.
During this one conference in Johnstown PA, a hotel employee, asks me, “Where you from? You’re not from out here.”, he says. “Are you from New York?”

That’s all she wrote. He and I started talking and as he noted, living out there in Johnstown, he was really home sick and didn’t really ever get the chance to kick it with someone in that way. It’s in the vibe. The way you say something as in more than the words. It’s understood. No explanations necessary.

For the rest of that weekend and even the next time we were in that hotel, if he saw me, he was going to stop and try to resume our conversation. I felt bad because I was busy and often couldn’t chat as much as I would have liked to. I too was missing that familiarity. I just wasn’t in the position to kick it. But I appreciated him.

There’s something funny about being away from home and finding someone else from your town that makes you immediately bond with them. I’m sure this applies to others, but I can tell you there’s definitely a New York thing that happens when we’re out of town.

I’ve been all sorts of places, thousands of miles away from home and all of a sudden, you make eye contact with someone and one of you immediately knows.. “You from New York bro?” I’ve met people who I believe if something broke out where ever we were at the time, they’d have my back just on some we’re both from NYC type of thing. But if we were in NYC, chances are we wouldn’t speak to one another.

That’s so funny! And yet awful and real.

Wehn you’re new to disability, you can feel as if you’re in a foreign land right in your own neighborhood.

The idea of recognizing home in someone is probably relateable to us all.

In that space with the Pennsylvania Council of the Blind, it took some time to feel like a part of the group. But if I’m being honest, something was missing for me that could have made that feel more like my tribe.

From the moment I attended my first conference, there were those in the group who weren’t welcoming.
That’s to be expected. I don’t think they liked me, my style or my ideas.
The fact that I was rolling with a crew of people who were either new to blindness or new to the organized blind environment.

We were also interested in having a good time and hyping ourselves up. Ok, I probably did a lot of the hyping up.
Most of the people seemed to enjoy and appreciate that but there were definitely those who turned their noses up to that sort of thing.

Even years later, after all of the work put into the organization it just wasn’t feeling like home. i chalked it up to not being from PA.

Truth is, even though I lived here for over twenty years now, I just can’t seem to claim it like that. I’m not PA.
I’m always NYC.

Don’t get me wrong, I truly love and deeply appreciate the people in PCB and what I was able to learn both from them directly and through all of the interactions and experiences.

Today, I’m older and still sort of feel a desire to find my tribe, but I now believe that there’s not one for me. Rather, there are multiple communities that fulfill me in different ways and at different times.

A disability centered space is something I find myself wanting to be around.
Not all the time, but that free flowing accesible environment like we used to create with the PCB in person conference is a great space to explore and feel what the world can be with a bit of access.

Access is just part of the story.
If you’re a person with multiple identities, inclusion means you’re able to comfortably express your full self.
You shouldn’t have to deny some aspect of who you are in order to be accepted.

For so long, there weren’t many places outside of my home and among my family, where I felt I can be my full self.

That’s not on anyone but me.

There are people I’m around today where I feel much more comfortable being myself.
Some of that is because they are accepting, but a bigger part is me.
I just care less today about what other people think.

Maybe I’m just more comfortable with who I am as a person?

This is definitely about blindness.

By the time I became Blind, I was quite secure with myself as a Black man. But sometimes I still feel as though I’m in search of my tribe. The place I can bring my full self. My Black,which includes my Puerto Rican, my Blind, Bronx, my very silly and nerdy self.

I’ve been promising my family that this is the year I grow up since forever! Forget that, I’m staying five for as long as I’m alive!

Is there a place that would welcome all of me?

Unfortunately, organizations may think they’re welcoming of everyone, but individuals that make up the organization don’t necessarily subscribe to that same idea. Even if they think they do, their actions aren’t always inline with that philosophy.

Everything is fine when it’s obvious you’re all headed to the same destination.
You’re on cruise control. Things seem to change though, when you hit an intersection. And when that is at the corner of let’s say Blind and Black for example, well the degree of openness and brother and sisterhood get’s tested. Welcoming, inclusion, diversity, all that stuff you said you are actually get’s tested.

If you’re a part of such an organization, look around and if those who you met at the intersection are gone, well, you probably failed.
Perhaps it’s time to stop saying you’re welcoming and actually become that.

As disabled people, so much of our lives are impacted by access.

The spaces we visit, the content and information we consume, the types of services we use. It all boils down to physical, digital or some other form of accessibility.

If I’m interested in participating in an event or getting involved with a non blindness organization, I have to think about and plan around accessibility. I need to be prepared to spend time working through a website or app.
Ready to take a picture of a hand out circulated during an event in order to have my phone read it.
Ask for some sort of direction in a new physical space.

Truth is most organizations like people, never consider accessibility. They never had to think about it.

Similarly,organizations with very low or no participation from Black people and others of color, may not recognize the exclusion. Or should I say non-inclusion? (Laughs)

The problem is when any of these organizations say they are inclusive but don’t take any meaningful steps to actually change.
Therefore, my Black and or my Blind are not really welcomed.

Is it really a community if my access needs aren’t being met but culturally I’m included? Can I consider myself a part of a community when all of my access needs are met, but I have to leave my culture at the door.

So it shouldn’t be a surprise that this affects my participation.

Or is that what they wanted all along?

Then they were never about community.

— DJ Scratch transition

TR:
I could imagine that some people found it strange when Jay mentioned that he and the other fellas didn’t immediately trust Jennilee Brewster.

If you recall, the group of brothers would gather outside the nursing home. Smoke a little weed. You know, just chillin’. And yes, at the time, weed wasn’t legal in New York.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
And then we had this white woman coming around asking questions. She was being really persistent.

TR:
I won’t beat around the bush here, these brothers most likely were concerned that Ms. Brewster could be a Karen.

A white lady asserting her privilege and budding into the lives and business of others, especially people of color.

You can find lots of examples of Karen’s at work on YouTube today thanks to smart phones and the ease of recording.

I’m in no way suggesting you go down that rabbit hole. It leads to all sorts of racists encounters that has an under current of possible violence. Plus watching mentally unstable people shouldn’t be entertainment.

For those who are actually named Karen, I feel for you.
But you have nothing to worry about if you’re not the type of person to racially profile people. There’s no need to be offended if you’re not the type of person to call the police on little Black children selling lemonade outside their own homes.

For Black people and others of color, these experiences aren’t knew at all. They’re just documented now.

Whether in corporate environments, schools, social settings, just about everywhere we exist, we learn to bob and weave avoiding micro agressions like a boxer dodging jabs, upper cuts and knockout blows.

No, actually, every where we exist!

— Clip of MTG attacking Rep. Jasmine Crokett in Congress.

TR:
So when jay explained that he and the rest of the brothers who would become the reality poets were leery about letting Miss Brewster into their circle, well some of us can relate.

Yet, we need each other. Jay’s story reminds us of that.

It’s an example of how opportunity often doesn’t present itself like we imagine it in our minds. It’s not as defined. It’s not flashy. The messenger rarely looks like the person we imagine or hope for.

Trust is essential.

Jay and the rest of the brothers eventually did put their trst in Ms. Brewster. It paid off. They became the Reality Poets. That not only made an impact on them personally but they’re art is doing the same for others.

What if they didn’t trust? What if they waited for an opportunity to present itself in a way that made them more comfortable?

Did Jay’s past make you uncomfortable?

I’m talking about his former occupation; drug dealer. He spent time in prison. I never asked about that part of his life. It’s in his past.

I do think about how many Black and brown people today are behind bars for selling weed. Meanwhile, now legal in many states, the Cannabis industry, overwhelmingly run by white men, has taken off. And like every other industry that forms, will be run by a few large corporations.

I think about these Black and brown men and women who when released from prison struggle to support themselves. This world doesn’t really seem to hand out second chances very equitably.

I don’t want all of these micro aggressions, systemic problems, the attacks on humanity, to change me for the worse. I want to believe in people, while still being aware. I want to be conscious and still able to trust in others.

That takes serious work!

— Break beat Transition

TR:
When should we trust ourselves?

We all have ideas that at some given time, we believe are correct and defend.

When something forces us to re-examine our perspective, we either realize our ignorance and change or become even more convinced we’re right.

When Jay talked about his reaction to seeing a wheel chair user at the bus stop knowing it was going to make him late for work, I’m sure he felt justified and would defend his position at that time. It’s a common reaction in a busy town where everyone is rushing somewhere. We want to hold someone responsible.

You ever notice how no one gets mad at the bus designers? Why the heck didn’t the bus manufacturers make it easier for those using wheelchairs to get on the bus like everyone else?

We don’t get madat ourselves for not leaving earlier and building in time for unexpected delays.

I give Jay a lot of credit for sharing that story. Any time someone shares an ableist thought or action from their past, I want to highlight it and recognize them for their honesty. I know it’s not easy.
I also think it’s something we should uplift for the sake of making space for us all to grow. I want that space for me too.
I’ve said and done things back in the day I wouldn’t do today.

I recognize and appreciate that Jay had to have a certain level of trust for me to share that story. In fact, I’ll say that about all of those who share their stories with me on the podcast.

I actually take that pretty seriously. Trust in general, is a core value of mine. I don’t do well with those who break it.

Trust needs to be earned.

Yet, we really do trust in things that can’t actually earn our trust. Wheelchairs, computers, access technology, a white cane.
All of these things can’t earn our trust. We’re believing in those who make the equipment, those who teach us how to use them and mainly ourselves and our ability.

When I once trained those new to blindness on technology, it was pretty obvious after a while who was going to adapt to the new way of getting things done.
Some would focus on how they used to do it.

“I used to just click the mouse and drag this file over to the other window”, they’d say. Yes, I know, I’d say.
I did that too, but now let me show you how you can do this today.

I hated my screen reader in the early days. I tried to convince myself that I couldn’t understand what it was saying. But it was clear that the more I complained to myself, the less I was actually getting done.

I didn’t have an alternative. My eyes were gone but my ears and ability to learn were all in tact. So either I was going to quit and do nothing or figure it out. In my mind, the pain of quitting and doing nothing feels worse than trying and not getting it. At least you can keep trying.

Then again, thinking about this now, of course I’d adapt to the technology. I’ve always been comfortable with tech.
I’m confident in my abilities, I trust myself.

In other areas of my life, I don’t feel as confident and may not be as quick to adapt.

Dang! I have to keep it real. There are times when it feels like I can’t trust or believe in others, but perhaps I’m really not trusting in myself.

My ego is telling me to strike this from the episode, wwe’ll see who wins.

— DJ Scratch Transition

TR:
There was a lot of trust involved in this Art of Adjustment season. I had no idea how I would produce the self-portrait episodes. I relied on inspiration and faith that something would come out of the conversations. That part is a given, it’s more about the trust in being able to make it work.

Whether or not it works is subjective. That’s up to you the listeneror transcript reader.

My hope is that some concept or idea discussed in one of these AOA episodes got you thinking. Perhaps encouraging you to consider how art or some form of expression can be a vehicle to assist you in your own adjustment.

The focus here on R double M Radio is adjustment to disability, but it applies to life in general.

Ah, y’all know that.
You all make connections and don’t experience things in a vacuum. That’s why I enjoy hanging with y’all!

Hey! This is my tribe! The R double M Radio family.

This podcast has helped me meet and establish relationships with people I’d otherwise never really get the chance to interact with. We share similar perspectives on a variety of topics. At least, we share the idea of being open. For me that means, open to other points of view, but not when they come at the expense of others or threaten a group’s existence. I’ll remain closed to hate, lies and deception. That’s some corny sucker stuff!

Even though this is a podcast and the communication seems like it only flows in one direction, you know it doesn’t have to always be like that.You can hit me up, ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com. Give it a try.
REIDMYMINDRADIO@GMAIL.
COM (spelled out).

How is art or some other form of expression a part of your adjustment?
Have you been delaying the pursuit of that interest?
Did any particular story resonate with you in a special way?

Let a brother know.

— DJ Scratch Transition

If you didn’t really dig these series of episodes, like it wasn’t your thing, you can blame that on me. Well, you’re probably not listening right now so I’ll move on.

If you enjoyed these episodes well give the credit to the artists themselves: Krystle, Andrew, Kiana and Jay.

It’s all their fault!

They not only shared their stories and perspectives but they inspired the thoughts and ideas that came to be the self portrait episodes. That inspiration is a result of our actual conversations, they’re work, interests and experiences.

I hope it proved to do the same for you.

The process of producing it alone in my mind is the win for me. Like I said earlier… ” I don’t know how this is going to turn out, but I guess we’ll see!”

I’m off to continue working on the next season. That means you won’t hear from me until July. Or August, there’s a lot going on.

We do have a Blind Centered Audio Description Chat episode dropping in June. So stay tuned for that.

Also, if you’re interested in some free audio described content head on over to ReidMyMind.com. I’ll link you to a YouTube playlist of the
2024 Easterseals Disability Film Challenge Finalists. Audio description provided by Social Audio Description Collective!

— Airhorn

The best way to stay informed,is to follow or subscribe to Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.

There’s lots of ways to get there:
Maybe you open your favorite browser and type, some of y’all like to dictate…
however you do it, you got to spell it right

Say it with me; that’s R to the E, I D.
— Sample: “D… and that’s me in the place to be! Slick Rick

Like my last name.

–Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR
When it comes to adjusting to disability, do the specifics of a person’s disability really matter?
I’m talking about when it comes to living your life? Finding meaning and your purpose?
Personally, I think these are things we all desire.
Not based on our so called race, economic status or abilities but rather our humanity.

My final guest In this second to last episode of The Art of Adjustment, where we continue to highlight the role art plays in that process, is film maker, Andres Molina.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
But everybody calls me Jay .

Forty six year old Spanish man, light skin wearing a Vegas Raiders hoodie and hat. My pronouns are He/Him.

TR
Welcome to Reid My Mind Radio! I’m Thomas Reid your host and producer.
This may be your first time here, so let me explain the rules.
We don’t officially begin until the drum drops! I’m talking about…

— “Theme music. Every good hero should have some!”, Keenan Ivory Wayans, “I’m Gonna Git You Sucka”

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro
Andres “Jay” Molina:
I was living in the hood. In New York, in the lower east side of Manhattan. I used to be a truck driver. At some point there, I decided that I didn’t want to work as a driver anymore.

I started selling drugs. A few years after that, I got arrested, and I did some time in jail.

TR
After prison, Jay had to do some time in a drug program where he contracted a rare form of Pneumonia.
It put him in the hospital for a couple of years.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Being so long in bed, I lost a lot of muscle mass. I lost my motor functions. I don’t walk today, I became disabled. All this happen in 2014.
— Sounds of busy city streets….

I used to be the type that didn’t really care much about disabled people. When I used to take the bus to go to work, usually there would be a couple of disabled guys, people around the route that I take. And as soon as the bus used to stop to pick them up, I used to be the first one in the bus, “Fuck, these fucking disabled guys. It’s gonna make me late now.”

TR
Hard to hear?
I’m in no way condoning this way of thinking.
Yet, as someone who grew up in New York and traveled to and from school and work on buses and trains, this is not an uncommon attitude.

I remember being on the train headed to class and someone got sick or passed out.
The conductor in these situations isn’t allowed to move the train.
The person even if they are conscious has to remain on the train until the EMT’s arrive.

Even the little old lady clutching her rosary beads is like, “Get them off the bleep bleep bleep train!”

— “Stand clear of the closing doors please!”, Vintage recording of NY transit Subway Announcement
— “New York, New York! (Voice pitched to an ominous deep voice)

Andres “Jay” Molina:
And then it hit me like a smack in the face because now I am one of those people.

Music begins A menacing synth loops and launches into a gritty, slow dark, Hip Hop beat.

TR
Following those years in the hospital, Jay needed physical rehab. He was sent to the Coler Nursing Home on Roosevelt Island. Just off the eastern coast of Midtown Manhattan.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
When I first got to the nursing home I didn’t know anybody of course, So I was just hanging out by myself. And then one of the nurses told me, go outside, there’s people just like you, young like you, and you can talk to them.

TR
Different groups of people congregated Outside the home. It’s a nursing home so the majority are seniors.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
But when I saw these guys actually, one of them looked Dominican, I’m Dominican. And that attracted me more. And as soon as I approached them, they just looked at me and said, “Come on man you with us”. and I started hanging out with them. And that’s when we became friends.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I identified with them. They all looked like they came from the same background that I did. The way they talk. The way they joked around with each other.
It looked more like disabled people from the hood. That’s why I went to them right away.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
How important was that for you to have this group of other Black and Brown Brothers Who were in a similar situation?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I felt really comfortable. They started taking care of me.

TR
they did more than congregate outside the nursing home. They broke bread together.
At the time, Jay was fresh out of the hospital. he didn’t have any money. So they all chipped in to cover Jay.

They helped each other.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Even though I don’t walk I am what is consider independent, I can move my hands. I could move around. Most of my friends are gun violence survivors.
They are paraplegic’s and quadplegic’s, they don’t really have movement in their hands and bodies. So I started helping them.

So for example, I used to roll the blunts for them.

TR
It goes beyond rolling’ the weed, putting the blunt in their mouths and lighting it. Jay would feed his brothers as well.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
So we became close because of that. We got like a family like, I take care of you, you take care of me.

— Nino Brown A toast! (Clinking Champagne glasses)
Am I my brother’s keeper?
CMB Yes I am.

Nino Brown Am I my brother’s keeper?
CMB Yes I am.”, “New Jack City”

TR
While Jay and the other brothers continued to grow their friendship outside the nursing home, they didn’t realize they were being watched.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
A white lady called Jennilie Brewster was doing volunteer work here in the nursing home. She noticed that they didn’t have programs or projects for younger people. Usually, it was about the older crowd. She wanted to do something for us. And she started a writing workshop.

She used to come around to ask us to go to these writing workshops.
But at first we were leery, we were like white people probably police, because we were out there smoking weed.

— Whoop Whoop, Sound of the Police! KRS One

Weed wasn’t legal in New York yet.

Now we’re doing something that we’re not supposed to be doing. And then we had this white woman coming around asking questions.

She was being really persistent. She kept coming. And then one day, we decided to go to one of the workshops just to see what she was talking about.

And she started encouraging us to write about our lived experiences. To write about things that we wanted to write about.

TR
J’s first poem tapped into his memory of living on the lower east side of Manhattan in 2001.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
About how I felt about being part of 9 11

— News clip featuring Brian Gumble after the first tower was hit and before any information was known.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Every piece of poetry that we do is about reality. It’s about what we went through.

TR
The group worked with poetry coaches during the workshops. The next thing you know, the crew was hype, excited about poetry.

Music ends!

Andres “Jay” Molina:
And that’s when we formed the Reality Poets.

TR
The Reality Poets which includes the crew of brothers Jay was invited to join and some others, are a part of what became known as Open Doors NYC.

According to OpenDoorsNYC.org, the group produces artistic collaborations, programs and mobilizing campaigns focused on community building, disability justice and gun violence prevention.

“Hit in the neck I ain’t even feel the burn.
Paralyzed instantly.
Praying to God, please don’t take me now
I got a little girl to look after and
I’m not trying to look after her from the sky”, Reality poet

OPEN DOORS is a project of the Center for Transformative Action-a 501 (c) 3 affiliated with Cornell University.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
What was your experience with poetry prior to disability?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
no experience at all. I never wrote a poem in my life ever. Didn’t even know how to write a poem.

Music begins, “Hooray for Hollywood”
— Explainer video about the film making process.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I started thinking about how are movies made? What are the steps that go about making them? And that always intrigued me.
And that was always what I was after, making a film, documentary, feature film, a fiction film. Just something I think that would be fire.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
So was that an interest before disability?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
After.

I actually taught myself how to work with Premiere Pro. And I also taught myself how to work with After Effects. Taught myself Photoshop too. So I basically became a motion graphics artist.

TR
I can’t help but think about the importance of access.
To people, information, technology all based on our personal abilities.
But still, it begins with That desire to pursue our interest. Which comes down to trust in ourselves.

— Fire Through Dry Grass Trailer

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I wanted to make a documentary about the reality Poets. About everything that we went through and all our accomplishments.

And then in the middle of that, COVID hits.

a hospital called Elmhurst Hospital . in Queens, New York, was the epicenter of the pandemic. And they brought a patient from this hospital, into my room, put him in the bed right next to me. This patient had COVID. He was coughing the whole time he was there, gasping for air.

I have a lot of underlying conditions.

I felt betrayed. All these freaking people don’t care about me. They don’t care if I die or not.

TR
Feeling powerless, Jay reached out to someone he could trust.
Someone he believed cared about him.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I call the director of open doors, Jennilie Brewster. I told her about the situation.

And she said, Jay, you are an aspiring filmmaker. why don’t we just make a film about this?

— ” A nursing home is ground zero. But it just takes one person with a virus and then it is fire through dry grass”, NY Gov. Anrew Cuomo

TR
Prior to the pandemic, Jay was working with an experienced filmmaker after receiving a grant from the New York City Mayor’s Office.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Alexis Neophytides was my mentor. We were working together for a few years before COVID.
I call Alexis right away. And I told her about what I wanted to do. And she said, let’s make this documentary together.

TR
The film, Fire Through Dry Grass, captures the early days of the Covid 19 Pandemic from the perspective of Jay and some of the other Reality Poets. Literally, it’s from their perspective.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
We got like about four GoPro’s and I started clamping them myself to the chairs.

the GoPro shot is like a camera. They have a really big memory card like 60 gigabytes.

TR
Jay and the crew traveled throughout the nursing home documenting what was actually taking place.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
going to different offices within the facility and just recording everything.

TR
We’re talking about two Terabytes of video.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
We also have a lot of footage from outside of the facility. My collaborator, Alexis’ husband, were the ones coming and recording everything from the outside.

Every two or three days, I will just collect the GoPro, download myself into my computer And then upload into our Google Drive.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
As we started talking more and more about the film. We pitched the idea to ITVS public television, PBS channel. They liked it and they actually gave us the funding for it. So we started hiring people to work with us. The job was to watch the footage, and highlight and put aside anything that seemed important.

TR
In addition to zoom footage from the members of Open Doors in conversation as they continued to meet, there’s also arial shots taken from a drone.

Fire Through Dry Grass not only helped tell the story of the dangerous conditions being faced by both
residents and staff during the pandemic, but
it also raises the issue of disabled access to community housing.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
All of us have different agendas.
Most of the guys do want to move out. They always in the hunt for apartments.
Some of them are just here because they haven’t found one yet.

TR
Jay himself was offered multiple apartments. But they were often located in housing projects throughout the city. He didn’t feel safe and they were located far from his family in downtown Manhattan.
That was years ago, before chronic kidney disease.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Which means I am on dialysis.
Even though I could live in the community and just go to the dialysis center, it’s much easier for me to live here.
All I got to do is get on my chair and go to the third floor and do the dialysis session.

TR
Community housing for disabled people is not just about access to shelter.
It’s about having the agency to control your own life and make your own choices.

— “Leave me alone, I want to be free from being told how to live my life
By rules, regulations, laws, bylaws, loop holes, pot holes and assholes
Let me be free to make the decisions that best serve me”, Peter Yearwood, Reality Poet

TR
Ultimately, the message that Fire Through Dry Grass makes clear is Nursing Home Lives Matter.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
During COVID Our now director of open borders, Vincent Pierce , wrote up a petition to get the CEO at that point of Coler, Robert Hughes, removed from his post.

We felt , he wasn’t advocating for us.

He was letting the Department of Health and CMS run all over us, take our freedom away. We felt that we were basically having our human rights violated.
And he wrote that petition to get the CEO removed from his posts, and other organizations saw this, and started supporting us.

That was around the time of Black Lives Matter. they formed Nursing Home Lives Matter.

TR
Robert Hughes, the CEO of Kohl at the time wasn’t fired, but I can imagine, the pressure got to him.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
The CEO retired in 2022.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
What can people do if they want to be of help? How can people support?

Music begins Bright, upbeat, ambient music that sounds like lights bubbling to the surface.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Go to OpenDoorsNYC.org, that’s our home page. There’s a Nursing Home Lives Matter link. When you hit it you go to the Nursing Home Live Matter page. You can join in, leave your comments, leave your ideas on how you think is the best way to change nursing homes. In the country Not just here in New York.

TR
Today, despite the convenience and ease of access to dialysis treatments, Jays opened to living in the community.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
If I find myself in a situation in which I get an apartment, close to my family, my friends, my mother, my sister. I probably think about it again to move

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
Do you think that would impact the reality poet’s if y’all are all, not in the nursing home together?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
No, because we also have two members that don’t live here.
Even though we do get together in person, we usually do everything virtually. Most of our meetings and events are usually through zoom calls. But every once in a while we do have in person meeting or event or project. And we just take an Uber, Access Ride to the location and get together.

TR
Since the making of this film, two of the Reality Poets have moved back into the community.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
Are there any things you learned about disability from making this film?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Disabled people been living in what we call a system of oppression for over 100 years, in which we are treated differently, we are treated like second hand citizens
we are not being respected, we are not given the tools or help that we need to advance ourselves in life. And that’s what we are trying to break with this nursing home lives matter movement, that we matter , we are human beings too.

You still have a mind, you have a purpose, you have a say in your life, and the way you want to live your life, and that should be respected . And that should be enhanced, embellish by the people in power.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
Do you think there’s a power in film to do any of that as a filmmaker yourself?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Of course!

We have advocated a lot for disabled people through the years of us being together.

We have done this movement Nursing Home Lives Matter. We are putting disabled people on the map.

Even though it has gotten better in Hollywood, a lot of disabled artist have been hired now, we think there’s room for more.
Not just actors and directors and screen writers, artists, poets, graphic designers all different type of arts.

I was talking to the group about making the documentary that I wanted to make originally before COVID about the Reality Poets, to show people if you try you could do it you can make it.

Music comes to an end.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
One of the things that you said is that when you became disabled, it sort of helped you discover yourself. And I’m curious to know, how do you feel about that man today?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Well, I feel like I’m a better person now. Somebody that looks out for his people, people in pain, disabled people, People who need help.
Even though I’m in a wheelchair, whenever I see somebody, you know, like they can’t do it, I tie the shoes, I fix the pants, or fix the shirts, I fix the hats.
if they need me to feed them I will feed them. I’m more in touch with humanity now, which I wasn’t really before.

I didn’t really have a purpose. I found my calling.
, I became a poet. I became a filmmaker, motion graphics artist, Photoshop.

I tell people that I don’t regret me being disabled. And people are like “what you crazy” and I’m like I don’t regret it.

I found myself after I became disabled.

Music begins A very bright, inspirational piano loop that opens to a lively bright up tempo beat.

TR
Salutes to Film Maker, Poet and the newest addition to the Reid My Mind Radio Family, Andre Jay Molina. (Name extended like sports announcer)

— Airhorn

Shout out to all of the Reality Poets and everyone involved in the making of this film.

Fire Through Dry Grass goes beyond the experience of disabled people in nursing homes.
It’s about brotherhood, community, trusting in others and finding your purpose.

You can watch Fire Through Dry Grass on PBS online or the app.

I’m looking forward to more films from Jay on the big screen or other streaming platforms.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I have ideas.
We wrote a play a few years ago called Fade about disabled men, that co own a barbershop.

— Scene from the play

So the play we had it in a theater for like a weekend, and it was received really, really good. So I’m thinking about making that into an animation stop film.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
I like it. And if you need some extra voice talent, let a brother know.

TR
Look don’t shame me. My clock is ticking, if I’m gonna put some points on the board, I have to take the shot!

— Basketball shot clock expiring and swoosh of the ball through the hoop.

TR
Listening to Jay talk about meeting the brothers outside of the nursing home, their camaraderie and their opportunity to collaborate really makes me think I’m still in search of my tribe.
I’ll talk about some of that in my final self-portrait in the next and final episode of this season. The Art of Adjustment.

As I said in the opening of the episode, the details don’t matter as much as we think when it comes to the experience of adjusting

Can you relate to Jay’s story?

Some people focus on differences. I don’t necessarily think that’s bad. Unless you’re judging or viewing through a narrow lens closed to any sort of empathy.

When I hear Jay’s story, I think about the importance of access to explore and pursue our interests.
I’m reminded that , unfortunately, these opportunities aren’t afforded to everyone equally.
Some neighborhoods and schools have programs that encourage young people to explore their creativity.
Some families have the ability and knowledge to make opportunities for their children.

Adjusting to disability can feel like time has stopped.
It’s like being in the middle of a game and the coach pulls you out.
You were just warming up and now you’re riding the bench to no where.

However, time, is access.

For Jay, disability gave him the time to learn a craft. This put him in the position to tell the story of what was taking place in the nursing home during the pandemic. He was prepared and equipped for what became an opportunity.

The older I get, the more I realize how time is limited and therefore quite valuable.

If you’re someone new to disability and feel stagnant, consider this your chance to prepare for an opportunity waiting to present itself to you in the not so distant future.
Hopefully it won’t be during a life threatening pandemic.
But whatever it is, I hope you recognize it and like Jay, light it up!

— Sound of a lighter and an increasing burning fire.

TR:
By the way, you know what else is hot?
Reid My Mind Radio baby.

— “Fire!”

Let’s continue to spread it!

Tell your friends, enemies and perfect strangers that they can get it wherever they listen to podcasts.

There’s transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.

The only way to get there I promise you, is by spelling it right…
that’s R to the E, I D!
— Sample “D…, and that’s me in the place to be!”, Slick Rick

Like my last name!

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

— Sounds of Thunder storm transitions into a birdsong filled spring day!
TR:
I’m fortunate to live in a place where I’m greeted each morning, during three seasons, by happy bird songs.

There’s this one bird, I think he’s responsible for making the daily announcements to all of the birds in the neighborhood. I’m dead serious.

Growing up in the Bronx, we had pigeons and those little brown birds that bounce. Some of y’all know what I’m talking about.
What are those birds? Are they babies? I don’t think they’re baby pigeons.
Are they orphans? I never saw them with their parents.

Obviously, I admit, I don’t know much about birds, but since moving out to the Poconos, I’ve become a fan.

there’s this one bird, I’ll call him the bird caster.
I first hear him in the morning around 5 AM in the back of my house. He’s calling out to the others. It’s not a song. It sounds more like a message.

— A fluttering high pitch voice
“Good morning everyone! Today’s announcements: First, to all the youngsters, class will begin at 8 AM sharp! The weather today, partly sunny, but be prepared it feels as though a front is moving in from the west.”

This is not a direct translation, but I’m telling you, bird caster is making announcements.

Next thing you know, he’s off, repeating the process on the east side of the house.
Flying around the neighborhood, spreading the daily word, that appears to be bird casters role; delivering messages.

— Sounds of birdcaster in the back repeating his message.

My wife doesn’t like birdcaster.
She’s not a morning person.
That’s more my thing!

I respect birdcaster. He has a function and seems to take it pretty seriously. Based on my unscientific research, outside of rainy mornings, birdcaster is out there doing his thing.

It’s spring y’all, I’m waiting on birdcaster and the rest of his crew to return.

Since we’re in this Art of Adjustment season, I’ll take a queue from nature and deliver a bit of a message.

I know there are lots of our brothers and sisters out there who because of disability, feel as though they’re currently in a season of wait.
But, you’re actually in a season of prepare.

This down time that you’re feeling, is perfect for rehab, retraining, for formal or informal education.
Maybe it’s trying something new, something that’s always been of interest.
As much as possible, consider focusing your energy on you and really dive in and use the season.

Remember, a little movement in some direction is the beginning of momentum.

— Pause

I just made that shit up! (Laughing) I’m Thomas Reid host and producer of Reid My Mind Radio. baby! Let’s go!

— : Reid My Mind Theme Music

— Caribbean soundscape (beach, calypso music maybe outside bar)

TR:
In this episode we move forward with my continuous self-portrait, where I explore my adjustment experience based on aspects of conversations with my guests.

While it didn’t make it into the final edit, my actual conversation with Kiana Glanton featured in the last episode, began with her love of Carnival.

I’m not talking about the traveling amusement parks with rickety roller coasters, stuffed animal prizes and funnel cake.
— In a filtered voice; mm…. funnel cake!

I’m talking about Caribbean Carnival.

— Sounds of ocean waves and a steel drum lead calypso music.

The origin of Carnival dates back to Egypt. That’s in Africa y’all!
It was then adopted by Greeks, Romans and Europeans. But what we know as Carnival today has it’s roots in the Caribbean islands where former enslaved Africans celebrated their freedom and more.
It takes place around the world in various forms.

My only experience of Carnival is the West Indian Labor Day Parade on Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn.

— Sounds from the West Indian Parade in Brooklyn!

Kiana:
My favorite carnival hands down is Barbados Crop Over, where it’s the end of the summer season would really literally the crops are over in the whole island celebrates with the parade and parties and festivals and competitions for Soca and Calypso.

For me that down home, very connected, very communal experience came from Barbados.

TR:
It just so happens, when Kiana and I were discussing Carnival, I recently confirmed that my paternal grand father was Jamaican.
I’ve always thought this was the case, but never confirmed.

My mother was from Puerto Rico and I’ve always felt a certain attraction to the Caribbean.
Like I want to move their at least part time the way folks winter in Florida.
No disrespect to my brothers and sisters in Florida, but y’all got to get rid of that governor and the incredible anti blackness.
Yes, it’s everywhere but woof!

Kiana:
The moment I stepped foot in Barbados, I felt like I was home there was this very Africanist.
This very kindred kind of connection that happened the moment that I got there, that I felt like I had been there before, or that I was home.

I was just like yo, , I could live here.
I feel so welcomed.
And I think it is the inherent African spirit, honestly, that like, makes you feel at home.

— Music begins: A up beat percussion heavy African Soca inspired rhythm beat.

TR:
My genealogy isn’t the focus of these episodes.
This is about the art of adjusting, which like these self-portrait episodes is a continuous process

Kiana:
I have not figured out how to participate as a visually impaired person simply yet, because there are safety issues, you have 1000s of people drinking, you have trucks that are moving.
This could be an incredibly day and then your own streets that are not like the streets in the US these are Caribbean streets that have had hurricanes, and everything.
The infrastructure is really different. So it’s not the safest thing to cane, I would say safely behind drunk people and behind the truck. So I have not figured out how to reengage in carnival just yet, but I’m determined that I will return at some point.

TR:
It goes beyond just navigating.
So much of the Carnival environment is visual, but it’s also about community, food and drink.

My first thought is why not experience the Carnival from within as part of a float.
I’m often more interested in being a part of the production. Creation over consumption. Unless we’re in the kitchen, consumption is my preference.

I know there are some out there who hear my approach and may feel it’s limiting.
Thomas, come on man, you can use your white cane and get around if you try.
They’re not wrong. But, if you ever been in such a crowd of people all enthralled by what’s going on around them,
plus add in the rum and other libations, I just don’t know if that’s a battle I personally want to take on. You can, if that’s your desire! You better have some back up canes.

My agenda is more about enjoying the Soca and Calypso music. Sipping on my refreshing rum punch or some Ray & Nephew,
and ultimately reveling in the festivities. But if you want to use that time to gain an O&M Grand Master badge, I support your right to go for it!

I also support disabled people, using our voices to challenge society in different ways. Rather than us conforming to what so called able bodied people deem as…

–Music Ends.

“normal”, why not purposefully enter these spaces with the intention of making them accessible, comfortable environments for us too?

# Working within Blindness

TR in Conversation with Kiana:
I’m curious.
There’s a conversation in the community about whether or not people should be involved in the blindness field.
There’s this idea that oh, some people go in there because it’s easy.
Some people think that that’s a cop out, Oh, you shouldn’t go into the blindness field, you should go out into the workplace and do other things that have nothing to do with your blindness.
.
Have you heard that conversation? What do you think about it?

Kiana:
My thought is this.
You do not get to tell me how to live my life and how to be successful how to be great at being a blind or low vision person.
How do you know that this is the most effective? How do you know that this makes the most sense?

TR:
So much of the philosophy around blindness is based on the idea of being independent. I truly believe in being independent. However, conforming to society for the sake of appearing independent and not in need of any “special” help, well that just let’s society go unchallenged.

Think about it, the NFB from my understanding, advocated against Accessible Pedestrian Signals. This technology was considered an insult to Blind people and our ability to safely cross streets.
Similarly, folks felt the same about audio description and our ability to consume visual content.

“We don’t need no special help”

Meanwhile, the only thing that’s so called special is the way we access the information that’s already there being used or consumed by those who are not Blind. You know, the normals!

I’m getting some real internal ableism vibes from this.

Plus, it feels selfish AF!

Kiana:
Just because you and I are on this side of being able to talk about it without breaking down or punching a wall or being in distress and deep depression doesn’t mean that somebody else isn’t coming straight off of that.

I know what it felt like learning how to cross the street in tears, holding my baby’s hand and she was three and I was blindfolded.
Learning how to use this cane.
I know what it felt like thinking, how am I going to braid her hair? What if she swallows a penny? How am I going to get help? How am I going even know she’s in distress, all this fear And worry.

TR:
Over the years of producing this podcast, that’s been the struggle for me. Admitting the challenge of blindness,
while espousing our abilities, independence and sending a positive message. Making people aware that blindness by itself isn’t limiting, rather it’s the restrictions and limitations established by society .
It’s the barriers society puts in our way that requires overcoming, not our blindness.

Kiana:
Imagine how powerful that is, when we help our community.

Somebody sat with me and told me it was gonna be okay, that it wasn’t gonna be easy, but it is possible. And once you start to organize your world in your mind, and restructure how you think about what success is, then anything is possible in having a functional, happy existence. One of independence and a purpose is possible.

TR:
Let’s be real, hearing that from someone who has been through it is so much more powerful than getting that same message from a non disabled person.

Kiana:
So to the people who encourage you to go out into the world, go for it if you want to.
That’s your thing.
But I feel purposeful in this field.

TR:
As someone producing content specifically for and about disability, some have tried to encourage me to move beyond disability and seek out opportunities to create audio for and about mainstream topics.
I could. But those who make these suggestions never asked me what I wanted. They assumed I was only doing this disability related stuff as a means to something larger, something better, something not disabled. But I don’t see non disabled or bigger as better. Especially when we think about impact.

We have power, even in small numbers

I’m reminded of Kiana and her friends starting what they call the Rescue Experience. They understand that meaningful impact doesn’t necessarily require grand gestures or large amounts of money.

Kiana:
Donating money to a woman who needs to buy coats for her children, or getting her hair done.
Or sending someone we know who’s overworked and tired to a hotel for the night with dinner, and a spa the next day.
People who just needed a little bit of help, who was doing the work, but just use a little bit of support.

TR:
Isn’t that all of us at some point in our life?

I know some want you to believe they did it all by themselves. Holding tight to the idea that their own success was fully based on their individual work. The same folks who won’t acknowledge that perhaps they had advantages that others do not. Access to well funded schools, technology and people.

When we realize we all need a bit of support, maybe we’ll be more inclined to extend that to others as wel.

— Music begins: A traditional sounding slow, smooth Reggae Riddim!

# Audio Described Carnival
TR:
Back to that idea of claiming our own space within existing environments.

When I think about Kiana’s desire to once again enjoy the Caribbean Carnival experience, I have to ask, why not create our own space?
Yes, we advocate for our inclusion in various spaces and places and that’s fine.
But right now, I’m thinking more like the bum rush and less like asking. When I say the bum rush, I’m not referring to the original term where
a crowd of people just rush the door and get into an otherwise restricted area.

— Pause

Well, maybe I am, just not in a violent way.

What happens when we as disabled people worked together to assertively take over sections of these spaces and make them work for us? Obviously, you can’t just go into an existing theater and start building ramps and taring down walls , but we could collectively find a space along the route of a Carnival and create an accessible environment for us. Sort of on that “yeh, we’re here, what up?”

Are there disabled brothers and sisters in the Caribbean who are already doing this? I’m not trying to be the Christopher Columbus and think I discovered something already there. If it doesn’t exist, is this of interest to those living in the Caribbean? I’m pretty sure others like Kiana would be interested in traveling to the islands and accessibly immersing themselves in the Carnival experience.

So let me ask you. Who would be up for an Accessible, audio described Carnival experience? I’m talking about a space within the space designed and made for us!

Picture it.

A designated accessible area along the Carnival route, packed with food and drink (refreshing rum punch) and water, you got to have your water….

— In a filtered voice: Bruh! you’re a man of a certain age now, don’t forget a nearby bathroom

True!
All with live audio description.

— In a filtered voice: Not the bathroom!

Are there any Caribbean describers in the Reid My Mind Radio Family? Seriously, who in the family would be down to experience Carnival with AD?

— Music ends.

Hit me up, ReidMyMindRadio at Gmail.com.

# Close

— Music begins: A bright, mid tempo groove.

TR:
When I thought about this Art of Adjustment season, specifically , giving more thought to aspects of the conversations I have with my guests, I didn’t realize where it could go.
There’s something about it that feels natural. Taking the time to sit with the thoughts and ideas feels really important and necessary.

In the episode featuring Kiana, she spoke about her praying for opportunity. She acknowledged that now she finds herself really busy because her prayers are being answered.
These self portrait episodes for me are a way to slow down. I’m appreciating the time, sitting with these conversations, letting them breathe a bit. It’s an opportunity to spark or reignite ideas and explore them and see where they lead.

Sharing these conversations makes me feel a little like my friend birdcaster.

— In the high pitch fluttering voice: “What up baby!”

There are multiple messages for whoever wants or needs it at a given time. If you too choose to share, that extends the reach of one conversation originally between to people.

Before I fly away, let me remind you to make sure you rock with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
And no matter what season, winter spring summer or fall or if you’re like Babyface who only believes in two seasons;
you can find me by spelling the name the right way.
;
that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample: (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick
” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What is your politics around disability?

Raven:
I think most people who have disabilities should be put on an island.

Riana:
Silly Laughter

Raven:
Away from us normal people! (Laughs)

Riana:
Girl! I agree. (Laughter continues….)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Ok, this is the way I’m going to open the show.

Raven:
)Loud laughter)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Nobody’s gonna know you’re playing.

Riana:
My sister’s opinions do not …

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Loud Laughter)

Raven:
Hey! I thought we were in this together.

(Group laughing fades out!)

TR:
Maybe not an island.
But let’s say Andrew Leland’s country of the Blind were indeed a real place, what would be the requirements for citizenship?
Is it based solely on acuity or must you have additional qualifications?
What would be some of those qualifications?
What actually makes you Blind?

Visual Accuity?
Orientation and mobility skills?
What if you have multiple disabilities?

These questions, well sort of, have been on my mind ever since my conversation with Andrew, featured in the last episode. the actual questions I’ve been thinking about are more related to topics like ableism, and what categorizes something as disability art or a part of disability culture.

Today, continuing with my self portrait, I’ll see where these topics take me. That is, with the help of those two you heard at the top of this episode.

Riana:
My name is Riana Reid. I’m a 26 year old woman. I’m brown skin. I wear rectangular glasses. I currently have my hair and a pineapple meaning My curls are on the top of my head and like a ponytail. I have a bright smile. And high cheekbones, kinda. (giggles)
People tell me I look like my mommy. (Giggles)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
You look like your father.

Riana:
(Giggles) Okay!

Raven:
Riana’s pronouns are she her hers.

Hi, everyone. My name is Raven. I’m a 20 year old woman. I have dark skin and big curly fluffy hair with almond shaped eyes and big smile and my pronouns are she her hers.

TR:
I’m Thomas Reid. If this by chance is your first time listening, I’m the host and producer of this here podcast. And more importantly, I’m the father of these two young ladies.
That’s right, Daddy Daughter Day in full effect! Let’s go!

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
During my conversation with Andrew, we got into a discussion about what categorizes something disability culture. What makes someone a disabled artist.

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 56:24
If they’re in the mainstream, I don’t consider that disability culture. That’s just me.
Are they making the art from a disability perspective? I think that’s the way I draw that line.

Andrew: 56:57
My book is a mainstream book, it’s with a commercial publisher.

I don’t want to put you on the spot. But like, does that mean that what I’m doing is not from a disability perspective?

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 57:08
No.

When you mentioned the blind music artists, like, everybody knows Stevie.

to me, it’s a little different.

Andrew: 57:28
It’s interesting, he has like an album called Talking Book.

He’s not singing about blindness in every song.

It’s kind of a bigger question about identity.
Does your work fall under the category of the identity just by virtue of your having the identity?
Or does the work have to be about the identity for it to be included?
I think it’s kind of a spectrum.

TR:
Before we get to the question of what categorizes something as disability art specifically, let’s talk about identity.

A few years ago, I submitted Reid My Mind Radio to a Black podcast collective. They were looking for Black podcasts to amplify. Based on the fact that I never received a response, I assumed my podcast wasn’t Black enough for them.

But I’m Black!

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
How do you define black?

Raven:
From African descent?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Okay.

Riana:
There are some people who have some African descent and are not Black. Clarence Thomas, I guess he black technically? Well, he probably (Said in a deep mimicking voice ) “I’m not black I’m dark complexion. I’m the same race as my wife.”

Raven:
We had a speaker in this club that I was in. And I just remember her saying that she doesn’t use the term black anymore because someone found it offensive and she’s African American. And I don’t know if I lost my mind in the moment. But every time I think about it, I lose my mind. Black people are all around the world. And I think whoever said she was offended by the term Black has her own personal issue.

Riana:
At the friggin schools, they’re always like Black or African American. I’m like this school district is blessed with such a beautiful black diaspora. Half these kids do not identify as African American, but they definitely black.

Raven:
I’ve had friends before be like, Oh, I’m not black then because I’m not African American. I’m like girl.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Cause they’re from the Caribbean…

Raven:
That’s what they’re taught.

TR:
Could I have been rejected from that Black podcast network because I’m Blind?
Stevie’s Blind, Ray was Blind and they’re Black!

— Do the Right Thing on He’s Black but he’s not Black!
Mookie (Spike Lee):
Can I talk to you for a second?

Pino: ():
What?

Mookie:
Pino, who’s your favorite basketball player?

Pino:
Magic Johnson.

Who’s your favorite movie star?

Pino:
Eddie Murphy.

… Magic, Eddie Murphy, Prince, there not Black. I mean….
Let me explain myself. They’re not really Black, I mean they’re Black but they’re not really Black. They’re more than Black. It’s different.

Mookie:
It’s different?

Pino:
Yeh, to me it’s different.
End of Clip

TR:
When I listen back to this podcast, I think it sounds Black. Not just because I’m on it, not because of the music beds or the references throughout that I know those who know, know. It’s a vibe that is in everything I do.

Police see me as Black.
My teachers and authority figures saw me as Black.
But then again, if your perception of Black is based in stereotypes then ok, maybe my podcast and I don’t fit.

But, I’m Blac!

— Song “I’m Black” from the Parody film CB4

Andrew: 58:30
So there’s a writer named Jim Knipfel who wrote the first book about blindness I ever read, which is a RP memoir called slack jaw that came out in the 90s. He and I have become friends. He’s sort of like a blind writing mentor for me. One day, he paid me a really big compliment, he was like, Andrew, be a writer, don’t be a blind writer, you’re too good of a writer to be a blind writer.
And it was a compliment, but it was also like I’m kind of psyched to be a blind writer.

TR:
Without knowing the exact intent behind that message, it reminds me of someone telling me I don’t look or act Blind. Which is actually less about me and more about someone’s perception of Blind.

Andrew:
John Lee Clark, the deaf blind poet, he had an interview in Word Gathering, the disability arts journal, where he kind of said the opposite. He was like, don’t hide it. That’s a perspective that is going to set your work apart. It’s a perspective to really draw from, I want to write everything from a deafblind perspective.

I kind of feel the tug of both of those approaches to being an artist.

TR:
Could it be more about who is doing the defining?

Andrew:
I was getting a ride from a friend of mine, honestly at the end of the ride, I was like, why are you a friend of mine?

He said to me, in no uncertain terms, so now that you’ve written this book, you got to know your audience, people really respond to hearing the story of you losing your vision, that’s what you need to write now. Just stay in your lane basically.

Write another book that’s about losing more vision. I was like you knew about my career that I had before I wrote this book now all you can see is blindness and like this kind of emotional aspect of vision loss that you see as the moneymaker.

I think that’s what Jim meant by being a blind writer, as opposed to just being a writer. People could only understand you through this experience. And so to me, that’s the pitfall. That’s, that’s where I agree with Jim. But then the next book, I want to write, it doesn’t even have to be about vision loss, but it can be sort of, from a blind perspective. And using blindness in that way that I find really positive.

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 1:00:45
Yeah, I totally get it. It’s how you’re being perceived as one way, and how you present yourself.
Sometimes it doesn’t seem to even matter, you’re being pigeon holed, which is not your goal.
When I started podcasts, I had this whole thing, I don’t have to do everything about blindness.
That wasn’t my intention. But along the way, I was like, wow, there’s nothing wrong with me doing things about blindness and then it broadened out to disability in general, I like this. And I can talk about everything and anything within the disability community or from a disability perspective.
I’m making that decision, it’s not someone putting that on me. But at the same time, when someone wants to limit me and say, This is the only thing you can do, that’s what I have a problem with. Because I can do whatever the hell I want to do!

Andrew: 1:02:37
That’s the question that I’ve been wrestling with really through the whole process of writing the book and figuring out my own identity as a blind person.

Is it supposed to be central? Or is it supposed to be incidental? When is it Central? When is it incidental?

Raven:
You know what blows my mind.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What?

Raven:
When I don’t mention that you’re blind? And it’s like, (Mimicking voice)”Oh my God, how did I not know? Why didn’t you tell me, oh my we’ve been friends for so long, you didn’t tell me.”
(Laughter)

What’s it gonna come up for?
“Yeah, my Dad didn’t see today!”
(Laughter)
What the hell do you want me to talk about?
(Laughter)
I don’t know!

Riana:
it’s the same thing with me. They’re always like, shocked that I didn’t share and I said why would I

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I mean you can understand why people would find that….

Raven:
Not really.

Riana:
No! They think it’s like me sharing like a like a trauma

Raven:
exactly! That’s what it feels like.

Riana:
(Mimicking) “Why didn’t you tell me?”
And that’s weird.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
If you go back everything that you learn about disability in the in the world and how it’s perceived and all of that stuff, it makes sense that people will respond like that.

Raven:
Yeah but it’s stupid!

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
It is stupid. (Laughs)

Riana:
And I also don’t like it sometimes because especially older generations if I tell someone that my father is blind, probably because it contributed to a conversation. They’re like, Oh, I’m so sorry.

Raven:
You knock his eyes out?

TR:
When it comes to being Black or Blind, I never had a choice.
I’m totally Blind. No eyes Blind! Like, I can win a Blind contest

— Timpani Drum roll “And the winner is”

TR:
Years ago my intention was to bridge this gap between the Blind community and others. It feels like a natural thing to consider especially as someone becoming Blind as an adult.

Today, considering all of my identities, I’m just not interested in trying to convince others to se my humanity.
I want to live a life with others who choose to recognize and appreciate people as they are in full.
I want to be seen with all of my identities not just those we happen to share. I want to do the same for others.

On the question of what makes something a part of disability culture, I think it’s about intention.
Who is the art made for?

I think disabled artist create for disabled people. Of course, others can appreciate, find inspiration in and interpret based on their own lived experiences, it’s art. But, in my mind and my interpretation, it was made for us.

— “Hold Up!” (Nate Dogg Sample)
Music begins: A crescendo leads into a bouncy up tempo beat!

TR:
Hey y’all! Quick update.
Shout out to all of the R double M Radio family out there who continue to put in that work.

Justice Shorter, who joined us during our Young Gifted Black and Disabled2022 season, along with SeededGround, recently launched the Disaster Justice Guide Book

“This guidebook is a collection of disaster-oriented lessons, lived experiences and learned expertise concerning people of color with disabilities. Based on six interviews conducted during the summer of 2023, each section is curated using the contributions of profoundly insightful individuals of color who are all well-versed in their respective areas of focus.”

You can find the downloadable guidebook along with accompanying interviews at JusticeShorter.com.

Big shout out to Ajani AJ Murray who launched his podcast Acting Up with AJ & Crew.

The podcast focuses on disability and pop culture. From movie analysis and reviews to some of the latest media happenings in the disability community, AJ’s got you covered.

I’ll link to both of these in this episode’s blog post over at ReidMyMind.com.

And now, back to the episode!

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What is ableism?

Raven:
Ableism

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Laughs)

Raven:
(Spelling out the word) A B L… (Laughs)

Riana:
ableism to me is pretty much society today where it’s just it’s set up for able bodied people with the lack of acknowledgement for people with disabilities,
I guess that’s discrimination.

Raven:
I feel like a lot of the isms and all of that come from just the belief that there’s a normal like boy and girl that and if you stripped from that in any way you need to be fixed. In terms of disabilities to I think that’s what the feeling bad comes from because they’re not living the normal life that we deemed as a society as good and easy. Even though you can live happily with whatever cards you’re dealt.

Riana:
Yeah, we just need to adjust society

Raven:
Yeah!

Riana:
… to be more inclusive.

TR:
I can’t recall hearing the word ableism prior to becoming Blind.
In fact, it wasn’t until I eventually began reading about disability in general that I came across this word and concept.
That is, the discrimination of and social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that
typical abilities are superior.
It defines people by their disability and is applicable both to an individual and system.

Like my girls said, society views disability as something requiring fixing.
It’s evident throughout our culture. Art, politics, religion.

Andrew: 52:10
The refrain that the poem says over and over again, is fall to your knees. And thank God for your eyesight.

TR:
This poem Andrew refers to in his book, was read during a service in a synagogue.

Andrew:
You just sort of have to sit there with your family, as a whole room of people just sort of appreciates that they aren’t blind.
It was kind of wild to me that Lily was offended or found it annoying and it wasn’t just me.

— Theme from Love boat!

TR:
My family and I were on a cruise taking in one of the family friendly comedy shows held in one of the ship’s smaller theaters. It’s still amazing how incredibly large these ships are. But they still get tossed around during stormy weather.

When attending any sort of comedy show, I specifically do not sit in the front row. I don’t want to be visible to the comedian. I’m there to be entertained, not part of the entertainment.

— Music begins: A dark, menacing violin repeats over a mid tempo beat.

We weren’t in the front row but it wasn’t a large theater and I was sitting in the aisle seat.

There was this one “comedian”, I say that in quotes because there wasn’t much about his comedy at all that was funny.
I could tell he was pacing from one side of the stage to the other.
He then stopped in front of the aisle that I was sitting in. He took a few moments and then walked back off to the right side of the stage.
I could just feel it, a Blind joke was coming.

It did. And it sucked!

He was struggling to make something up on the fly. It was some corny, basic joke that involved Stevie, probably the most famous Blind person on the planet. In fact, I didn’t even tell you which Stevie and you know who I’m talking about.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Anyway, do y’all remember that? Do you have any recollection of that?

Raven:
I have about 10% recollection. And I am afraid that 9% of it is because you’ve told me the story three times this week.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
(Laughs)

Riana:
Literally the only thing I remember is daddy’s story. I don’t remember that happening at all.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Really, y’all don’t remember that?

Raven:
Kind of?

Riana:
You’re saying that he saw you in the audience. And then he made a joke because he made the assumption you were blind.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
I’m telling you. It was like there was an energy thing something was going on. But it was like, it was as though we were making eye contact.

Raven:
Maybe you had a dream.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Oh my god! )Said incredulously)

Raven:
(Laughs)
TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
It’s like, you know when you just go somewhere and you just want to be. You know what I’m saying? You just kind of want to just do your thing. You don’t necessarily need to interact. You just want to be there.

Riana:
definitely every day. I can see what Daddy is saying. When we go out, he has his cane or if you’re holding on to somebody’s arm people are going to look especially when Daddy had his eyepatch. Everybody was staring there was no just being like blending in the crowd. We stood out for sure.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Sometimes as a family we don’t necessarily always get that and that was one of those times for me that we don’t get to just be

Raven:
(Sympathetically) Augh!

Riana:
Does mommy remember that?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
She did. She remembers it like I remember it she just says it was a different cruise which I don’t care that’s fine. And it was just it was a weird thing

Raven:
I remember a comedian saying a Blind joke and it not being funny on a cruise.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
This was that guy! (Mumbling incredulously)
Laughter

Raven:
But I don’t know what you want me to tell you.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Did it make you feel any sort of way?

Raven:
I was probably very upset, annoyed.
But you have similar experiences that are all the same thing.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Again, we talked about it goes into that just being, okay, we’re just hear we just want to have a good time like everybody and then all of a sudden, boop! Spotlight! You see what I’m saying. And not the good spotlight where you know I’m rocking the crowd “hey what’s going on” (finger snaps… “Uh, Uh!” as if dancing)

(Silence….)
Hello?

Riana:
Laughs….

Raven:
That makes me sad.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Why does it make you sad?

Raven:
Because I don’t want you to think that it’s like, hard to go out and be a family, with your family?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
No, no, no, I’m not I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s nothing that we do wrong, it’s not our fault. My thing is that I want to know how it impacts you or do you all recognize that and I know you do now, Riana has come a long way in terms of it doesn’t you know, she knows what it is, it doesn’t bother her. So I really feel like she’s gonna be better for that. She’s a better person…

Raven:
What? (Giggles) I thought you meant better than me.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
No, no, no! (Laughs)
I’m just saying like, she’s gonna be better for that. And I think the same is true for you. At the end of the day, we’re just goin’ do are thing!

Raven:.
That’s always been my thing.

TR:
And that’s exactly what we were doing during that trip and in that theater.

The rest of the audience around me, I could sense was aware of my presence, they seem to be looking for my reaction.

— Music stops.

In this case, there was none. Because I didn’t find it funny.
I don’t think they did either.
Although I’ll never know if that’s because they are aware of me being there or if as in this case, the joke just isn’t funny.

But, that uncomfort felt by the non Blind folks, a reluctance to laugh as they await my reaction as though if I find it funny absolves them of the “sin” of laughing at a blind joke…

— (An evil, menacing laugh….) “That actually is, (coughing) pretty funny!”, The Joker.

TR:
I was extremely aware of racial discrimination at a very young age.
But, I knew nothing about ableism.
I know I didn’t harbor any sort of hatred toward disabled people. I didn’t have an ableist bone in my body! (Sarcastic giggle)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Do you ever notice any of your own internal ableism?

Raven:
Yeah,

Riana:
For sure.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I know, Raven should be really good.
(They all laugh)

Raven’s like, “And, what’s the problem!” (Laughs)

Raven:
I think I noticed more of internal ableism with more intellectual disabilities because I’ve been exposed to it less.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
that affects you in a certain way? Is that what you’re saying?

Raven:
Yeah.(Pause)
Riana didn’t give any…

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I’m going back. This was all about an intervention for you. (Laughs)

Raven:
That’s what it feels like. (Laughing)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I remember growing up, it felt like when you saw someone with a disability, you were supposed to feel bad. And sorry, and sad. Right.
The tel-a -thons. Y’all don’t know about the tel-a-thons.

Riana:
I don’t feel bad at all.

Raven:
We do know about the tel-a-thons.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Oh, ok! That was a thing.

Raven:
Did you hear Riana?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What she say.

Raven:
(Overly sarcastic and in vocal fry) “I don’t feel bad at all”

(They all laugh)

Riana:
I don’t. The only time I do is if like, if they’re not being accommodated.

Raven:
Yeh, yeh!

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Riana, , what about you anything around the internal ableism?

Raven:
Yeh, anything for you? (Laughs)

Riana:
Right now I see like ableism in the way that like I approach, neurodevelopmental disabilities or disorders. Sometimes I need to remind myself that we don’t need to, like, fix it. But especially with like a kid with like ADHD, because you get into this mindset, especially at the school, and I’m definitely not going to name drop that school, but they’re very ableist, in the sense of every behavior needs to be addressed. And they have to display the behavior in a certain way. And that’s where I see myself, making sure that I step back and be like, we don’t need to change this child. The curriculum needs to be adapted towards it. And school psych is pushing towards that message anyway. But I see myself being like, (Mocking voice that sounds a lot like Elvis Presley impression, LOL)
oh, yeah, we gotta do this and check in check out, behavioral modification…

(TR and Raven laugh hysterically)
Riana:
For real, I see it. Or like a kid with autism, we were just doing like, trying to figure out an intervention for them. And I just had to sit back and be like, Okay, we’re not trying to fix this child. We’re not going to try to change this child.

TR:
Another message around disability was, inspiration. As in, “Damn, if they can do it what’s my problem?”

— “We interrupt this broadcast to bring you this special news bulletin.”

That’s not inspiration. That’s just looking at someone as less than yourself.

No one ever gave me reason to question that way of thinking.

In my episode with Andrew, we talked about an early experience he had at a NFB chapter meeting.
That really brought back some memories for me, both as someone new to that environment and as someone who used to chair meetings of a local blindness organization.

In the latter, I had many opportunities to observe the uncomfort of those attending a meeting for the first time. These folks assumed we were a support group even though everything advertised about us was clear that we were a community advocacy organization working to increase access and opportunities for people with vision loss. That was literally what I’d say to not mention the word Blind because it scared folks away.

But when those unfamiliar with disability read “people with vision loss or blind”, I think their interpretation is, “Of course it’s a support group? What else do those people need?”

During these meetings, we’re talking about the business of advocacy. Meanwhile, those new to blindness are there in search of resources, maybe comfort, encouragement?

I don’t care if you’re personally impacted or a family member or friend, there’s something quite shocking when first encountering white canes, telescopic lenses and anything else associated with blindness.
Of course, there’s nothing shocking about these things, but when you are in this position where you’re facing a new normal; it’s a lot to take in.

Over time, I could recognize those who would return and those who were outta there.

Occasionally I think about them. the ones who ran away. I hope they found what they were looking for.

I’m not necessarily saying it was internal ableism that stopped them from connecting with our group. I just know that my internal ableism could have stopped me from connecting with people who truly made a difference in my life.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Have you ever witnessed ableism, in the real world …

Raven:
Are you kidding me?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
… that’s outside of anything to do with your father?

Raven:
Oh my god. Yeah.

Riana:
Girl, yes! (Laughs) What?

Raven:
Are you joking? (Laughs)

Riana:
Yeh, everyday.

Raven:
Number one, Villanova. That place man…

Riana:
Yeh, Villanova.

Raven:
Not the place but

Riana:
No the actual place is not accessible.

Raven:
(Ugh!) Ok, hold on. So the first thing I’m going to say is that a lot of the places on the campus, obviously they make accommodations but a lot of the places on the campus have like the disability stalls but there’s only stairs to get in it.

Another thing that drives me nuts is the people who think that they are so woke .
I was telling a story once something about going into the big stall somewhere and they were like, (In a British accent for some reason. LOL)”Oh I don’t use those stalls cause I realize those stalls are not for me”

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Laughing)

Raven:
And I’m like… (laughs) it pisses me off because I’m like, (yelling) “How are they gonna get inside of the place if that’s what you’re talking about.” It pisses me off because it’s this one dimensional viewpoint here it’s like don’t say a slur to someone but it’s so much more than that.

Riana:
I’ve been around people with disabilities for a while so I see it, institutional heavily like Raven was mentioning. Daily conversations. I’m thinking of things in like recreational therapy too.

The Rec therapist is coming in and trying to make something accessible. So you’re seeing how it’s not accessible for everybody. Just a lot of times you go into a space, and they’re like, Oh, this is what you can use. And it’s like, well, we’re going to need contractors because the people are not going to even be able to come in. If you take two seconds and put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. Even like a YMCA we went to and it wasn’t accessible. Every day living, we just had to create things, at least in my experience. And maybe that was just because we were students. So they weren’t really taking us seriously, but you had to be very creative. It puts you in a mindset of like, wow, people who are just not included. You have to be so creative, just to make sure that you’re able to do what you need to do.

In school psych. It’s always like, wow, my child looks normal, they seem normal.
And I’m like, you know who’s not normal? You

Raven:
I think also in a casual way, I notice it more. I think as a society we’re starting to work on our language

Riana:
Yeh!

Raven:
But I notice that it’s a little less with ability language.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Hmm! Riana let me ask you this. What’s the language that’s used when it comes to disability in your line of work?

Riana:
In School Psychology?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Yeh! Do they used differently abled, special needs, do they use disability?

Riana:
No, we say disability. That’s my huge argument over semantics. Everybody’s like don’t get caught up with semantics but that’s extremely important. If you describe a disability in a certain way it can put a picture in a parent’s brain and sometimes you just have to let that parent or teacher or whoever is uncomfortable, be uncomfortable because it is what that child is period.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
It sounds like you’re in the camp of no we’re gonna use the word disability, we’re not gonna change the language we’re gonna use those words.

Riana:
No!
Riana:
I’m not making you comfortable with anything, especially when I’m making you comfortable within ignorance. I’m not doing that. I’m gonna tell you your child has Autism cause there’s nothing wrong with Autism.
The DSM 5 says what it is and it is what it is.

Raven:
I just noticed this thing because I’m taking Psycho Pathology and I’ve noticed a lot of the names of things have changed.

Riana:
Yeh, like Sociopath is anti social personality.

Raven:
There’s like a lot that I realized have changed.
Riana:
Yeh! And that’s because of culture though. The way that semantics comes into play and the way they become derogatory and then we have to be sensitive. And that makes perfect sense, you know what I mean.

Raven:
Yeh!

Riana:
The “R” word. It makes perfect sense, I’m not going to use it.There’s some things though like obviously school psych’s aren’t going to test if a child has “gender dysphoria”, but I wouldn’t approach a situation where a child says they’re non conforming . I’m not going to say you have gender dysphoria. Like, that’s so stupid. That’s something that’s becoming a little derogatory too. That’s when I might change my wording, but that’s because of a cultural aspect.

— From George Carlin Stand Up Comedy:
“Sometime toilet paper became bathroom tissue. Sneakers became running shoes. Information became directory assistance. Car crashes became automobile accidents. Used cars became previously owned transportation.” (Audience laughter.) “Room service became guest room dining. And constipation became occasional irregularity.” (Audience laughter fades out)

— Music begins: A very bright, fun mid tempo beat.

TR:
Now, thinking about the requirements for citizenship in the country of the Blind, the truth is I don’t know that we have an immigration issue at all.
I don’t know anyone lining up trying to get in.

The country of the blind, just like this podcast, has fully open borders.

That being said, it is an opportunity to examine and challenge the way we move through the world to really figure out what blindness is and isn’t. What disability is and isn’t.

Even more of an opportunity if you have people in your life who you love and love you back to share in the experience.
Yes, these conversations can produce a range of emotions, but if you’re lucky, it can just lead to strengthening those bonds as opposed to breaking them.

(Sounds of laughter and conversation between Raven, Riana and Daddy!)

Blindness, disability is all a normal part of the human experience. Which I think works better when we’re all in it together!
Raven, Riana and Daddy:
(The conversation continues and leads into a hysterical laugh from the three!)

Big shout out to Andrew Leland, author of The Country of the Blind, remember, available on the NLS BARD for digital download and Book share as well as all the other places you can purchase books.

Riana and Raven, AKA, Daddy’s babies!
Hanging out with them, is one of the biggest blessings of my life.
Daddy loves you!

Reid My Mind Radio, daddy loves you too! (Silly laughter)

Reid My Mind Radio is available wherever you get podcasts.
Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.
The only way to get there is by spelling it right!
Riana and Raven:
R to the E I D!
— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick

TR, Riana and Raven:
Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!

Riana:
Can we do shout outs!

Raven:
Can we say bye?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
You just said bye!

Raven:
Not really.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Go ahead, say bye!

Raven:
Bye, guys! Thank you for having us on Reid My Mind Radioooooo! Peace!

Riana:
Peace! (In a deep voice)

(In her television announcer voice)
Thank you everybody for listening to Reid My Mind Radio. I’m Riana Reid with my co-host Raven Reid, taking over for this episode. Please follow us on Instagram. Mine is @RianaGeorgette. Raven what’s yours?

Raven:
I’m @Raven22 .

Riana:
We love you, thanks for listening, see you next week.

Raven:
I liked it, that was awesome!

Raven (at about 5 years old)
Woh! Heavy breathing. That was awesome, that was awesome!d

Hide the transcript

Music begins
THOMAS: Welcome to the Blind-Centered Audio Description Chats. These are the edited recordings of the Blind-Centered Audio Description Live Chats!
CHERYL: The live is the most fun part! We get together, we start with a question, and then we invite up anybody from the audience who wants to come and chat with us, agree, disagree, shed light on something that we hadn’t thought about before, which is Nefertiti’s favorite. [electric whoosh]
NEFERTITI: I’m Nefertiti Matos Olivares, and I’m a bilingual professional voiceover artist who specializes in audio description narration! I’m also a fervent cultural access advocate and a community organizer.
CHERYL: I’m Cheryl Green, an access artist, audio describer and captioner.
THOMAS: And I’m Thomas Reid, host and producer Reid My Mind Radio, voice artist, audio description narrator, consultant, and advocate.
[smartphone selection beeps]
CHERYL: Recording now!

NEFERTITI: As ever, our approach is that of centering the blind perspective. In this discussion, we will be yielding the mic to blind people first. How about we talk about blind centered, what that means, and what that means to us as the hosts of these chats, but also what that means for the blindness community at large? All right, Thomas, lobbing the ball to you. What is blind centered? What does it mean? What’s that about?
THOMAS: Ooh, I think I caught it.
NEFERTITI: Good catch.
THOMAS: Thank you. Cool. Good afternoon, everybody. Blind centered, yeah, let’s talk about that. So, you know, we’ve been doing these chats since the, I think toward the end of ‘22, when I looked back. It might’ve been the summer of ‘22 when we actually started, but they started posting toward the end of ‘22. And the idea behind it has always remained the same, is that our perspective is that we believe that when everything about audio description, the creation of audio description, like any good product, should center its targeted audience. And while we all know that audio description can serve many different populations, that centered population has been, and should always continue to be, blind folks. And I will say, I will try my best to say “blind and low vision.” But I want y’all to know that for me personally, I always, included in when I say blind, I’m including that spectrum, okay, that full spectrum of blindness, which includes low vision, from low vision to total blindness. So that’s what I mean when I say blind. That’s our guiding principle, the fact that the target audience for audio description is blind folks. WE use this centering to look at everything about audio description. I think everything, everything about it, everything that goes into the creation.
So, for example, the technology that’s used to create audio description. If we looked at that, we probably wouldn’t have inaccessible software that, companies using inaccessible software to create AD, whatever part of that software, whatever part of that business is. If targeting, again, centering blindness, that would mean that it would automatically be accessible. So, that’s an example of how that works, right? The creation, the delivery, the process of educating and training those who are producing audio description. Again, blind centered, employing and procuring, right? AD centering blindness. That’d be fantastic.
So, I think what we wanted to do today is to take a look at, again, this certification by first framing it with this perspective of blind-centered. I think it would be good if we first take maybe five, let’s say five issues that are of the greatest concern to blind people when it comes to audio description. What are five things that are the most pressing? I’m specifically talking to blind consumers of audio description that I wanna hear from y’all. But what are some of the most pressing issues when it comes down to audio description? What are some of the most pressing issues that you feel we face today?
JOLIE: There should be as much audio description as there is captioning.
THOMAS: Okay, okay.
KATIE: One of the things I thought of just now is not interpreting emotions or facial expressions, like just saying what somebody’s face is doing or what’s physically happening, not, you know, having someone say, “he looks worried” or “he’s angry.”
NEFERTITI: Gotcha, okay.
KATIE: You know, it’s like, what do they, you know, what’s their face doing?

NEFERTITI: Anybody else who identifies as a blind consumer?
GRETCHEN: Hey. Yeah, this is Gretchen Maune. And I just wanna say, quality control.
THOMAS: Quality control.
NEFERTITI: Excellent.
MITCHELL: Oh, that’s what I was about to say.

CARRIE: I think it’s this debate that we’re all having, which is fine, about text to speech versus real audio description with narrators, human narrators. And it’s the whole thing, like, some people think, “Well, it’s better than nothing, and it’s fine with me.” And other people it’s not.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
CARRIE: And I think how companies, I don’t wanna, say, pick on anyone in particular, but specific companies think it’s cheaper and it’s so convenient and will give more if we can just do TTS, and it’s fine.

NEFERTITI: So far, we have TTS versus human voiced narration, we have quality control, interpretation, and that we should have as much audio description as there is captioning. Anything else?
ROBERT: And censorship of explicit material as well as the audio description infrastructure not traveling from one studio to the other.
THOMAS: Okay. Censorship and passthrough. So, I’m gonna go ahead and do this list ‘cause I was pretty much working on this, and I think we all captured the majority of them. And this is not necessarily in any order, but I think many of us would feel that TTS is a high priority, right? So, the forcing of TTS on us. And I’m gonna, yeah, I’m gonna say it like that. I’m gonna collapse some of these into one because I think when we talk about, when Robert mentioned the censorship and all of that, I feel like this is about quality. And some of this stuff falls into quality.
NEFERTITI: Yes, and I would also loop in interpretation in there as well.
THOMAS: Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Censorship, interpretation, all of that goes into quality.
THOMAS: And there’s a bunch of other things that go into quality that I think we can, that we talk about and we think about: well written, culturally appropriate, well casted, all of that.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely.
THOMAS: All of that kind of goes into the quality. So we’ll say quality is one, but it equals all of those things. I’m gonna go and add significant and meaningful inclusion of blind professionals throughout the process.
NEFERTITI: Aha! Yes.
THOMAS: Oh, y’all okay with that one? Y’all okay with that one being in there?
NEFERTITI: Oh yeah!
THOMAS: All right. Cool.
NEFERTITI: Very okay.
KATIE: That’s a good one. Yeah, exactly.
THOMAS: Thank you. We’ll also say, I’m gonna add this one because I know that this is a thing. We still experience this. But I’m just gonna go ahead and say the overall experience of theater, in theaters and in broadcast and all of that, right? So, we’re talking about the experience. I think some of that is captured by passthrough. We mentioned the passthrough issue, right? That’s part of the experience because the AD just never made it there, but we know it exists already, right? Just never made it there. When you go to a theater and the theater gives you the equipment that doesn’t work, that’s part of the experience. All of that stuff. When you go to a theater and the treatment that you receive in that theater is beyond, eh, you know, it’s just not a comfortable experience when, you know, they say, yeah, they have AD on the Tuesday at 7:00 one time a month for this one show. And then when you get there, if you can get there, no one really kind of knows what to do. Like, that’s not a good experience. Yeah, they have AD, but it’s not a good experience. So I’m gonna add that in on our list because I think that’s a really important one.
NEFERTITI: And that’s for cinema and for live performance.
THOMAS: Absolutely. Anywhere that they say they have AD.
NEFERTITI: Right.
THOMAS: And then one that I didn’t hear, but I think y’all might agree, is increasing awareness among consumers, number one, because y’all know we’re here. We’re in the know. Even if we’re just looking at the States right now, but we’re talking about more than the States, there’s a lot of people who do not know or are not using audio description who are blind. So I think there’s a real effort that’s necessary to get this word out to them. But also, in terms of getting the word out, increasing awareness also amongst content creators. Because we know that if content creators were more involved in the process of creating audio description and looked at it as a creative process, a creative tool, I think we believe that that would increase both the quantity and the quality of audio description.
NEFERTITI: I certainly believe that. Yes.
THOMAS: Okay. Cool, cool.
NEFERTITI: I believe that any content that embraces audio description is enhanced by it.
THOMAS: Is enhanced by it, so the content creators need to know about it. So, that increase of awareness is really, really important. It goes beyond those two, but I’m really just kind of talking about those groups specifically: blind people and content creators in the long run. Because, you know, one of the things we talked about that would be great for audio description is—and any form of accessibility—is when we, accessibility from the beginning of the process, right? So that won’t happen, that will never happen until content creators are aware and accept it and view this as an art. We won’t get there until that happens.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely.
THOMAS: Cool. So, we have the five things, those five areas. That’s the framing that I’m talking about. That’s the blind-centered framing. So these are the things that are pressing to blind folks when it comes to audio description. Okay? So, that’s what we’re gonna work with today.
So now what I wanted to do was to say, okay, let’s use this as the context to sort of look at where the accreditation, the proposed, I’m not sure if it’s just proposed, but the document is serving blind-centered, serving these things. How does it help? How does it help reduce TTS? How does it help increase the number of blind professionals? How does it help increase the awareness of audio description? How does it help the quality of description? Including all of those issues, including cultural appropriateness, including making sure that it’s not censoring, including how does it help the passthrough issue?
NEFERTITI: Mmhmm.
THOMAS: How does it help all of that?
NEFERTITI: The impact.
THOMAS: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, that’s kind of how I wanna approach this. Because we can go through it and just be like oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That’s fine. We could do that. But I think to get to that sense of at least my question when it comes to this is, how’s this gonna help? How is this gonna help us as consumers?
NEFERTITI: Absolutely.
THOMAS: How’s this gonna help us as consumers?
NEFERTITI: How does it benefit?
THOMAS: How does it help us as blind professionals?
NEFERTITI: Yes, exactly.
THOMAS: Okay, so.
NEFERTITI: How does it impact? How does it benefit? How does it possibly take away from?
THOMAS: Yeah, yeah. If anyone has anything specific to point us to where it does address any of these issues, I’m willing to hear that. I would love to hear that, ‘cause that would probably make this a little faster process. But until that, we’ll go through it. Let’s just go through it. I’m gonna go through a couple of things that I noticed, and then we can invite a couple of folks to come up and talk about some of the things you noticed. Because maybe you did notice if it does or if it doesn’t address any of these five things. And in general, how would it help those who are looking at audio description from a blind-centered approach as opposed to something else?
So, I wanna go over this one part that I noticed, and we could use this as an example that I thought was kind of interesting. Okay. So it says, “In media and in live performance practice, a CAUDES tries to fit the description into the pauses between the spoken or sung dialogue and critical sound elements. A list of visual elements to describe includes, but not limited to, actions, facial expressions, physical characteristics, body language and gestures, visual comedy and sight gags, dance movements, costumes and clothing, multimedia effects and lighting, settings and scene changes, props, including signage, characters’ descriptions.” Oh! There we go. There goes something. I mean, that might be some identity stuff. Might be, that’s kind of low, but it’s there, I guess, if that’s what that means. “Text or on-screen graphics.” Okay, cool. Titles, credits, all of that. Okay. Oh, why is that kind of low though? The character, the characteristics, if that is, I guess that’s identity. Y’all see? Nef, you think that’s identity and character? Cheryl, that’s identity? Is that, would that be identity stuff? So, would that be?
CHERYL: It doesn’t have to be.
THOMAS: It doesn’t have to be. Right.
CHERYL: No, I don’t think, at least the item that you read out doesn’t rule in or rule out anything, for example, race or ethnicity, skin tone, hair, disability, like you started to say, mobility devices. Or is it just “this is the mom”? All I can say is that particular item you read out doesn’t clearly answer to that. There may be something later in the document.
THOMAS: Let’s go to Jolie! Let’s go to Jolie. So, Jolie, is there anything that you see that is addressing some of the five concerns?
JOLIE: Yes, yes, yes!
THOMAS: Yeah.
JOLIE: You know what I found really exciting is at the very beginning where it says what the definition of a CAUDES, a certified audio describer specialist, they say can be blind, low vision, or sighted. I love the fact that that starts out with blind, then goes to low vision, then goes sighted. Because normally it would be the other way. And they may say, “and in certain circumstances people who are blind could also blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” But instead, it starts right out with a certified audio describer specialist is a person who is blind, low vision, or sighted. I like that. I like that list.
THOMAS: Jolie? Jolie, who else? Who other than someone who’s blind, low vision, or sighted would it include?
JOLIE: Exactly, Thomas! Exactly. And so, I just, when you talk about blind centeredness, I think that that’s excellent. The stuff, by the way, that does cover the idea of ethnicity and how to describe different things like skin tone and hair and all the rest of that kind of stuff, that’s in a different part of the document. But I encourage everybody to read it with an open heart. There you go.
THOMAS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I wanna get back to that, though, because I think I’m thinking of that line a little differently because, well, I definitely wanna point out that it says that. I definitely. But I’m more curious to how does it do it? How does it do it? Because there’s lots of things that say things, right? Because what I was getting at is that a person who’s doing audio description, from my knowledge, can only be sighted, blind, or low vision. I’m not sure what the other option is when it comes to, I mean, you know—
JOLIE: You know, Thomas, I’ve been in discussions where just to try to get somebody who is sighted to understand that a person who is blind can absolutely do audio description, that it’s not you’re editing something that somebody else has said or the people who are sighted who are helping you are really doing it, and you’re just taking credit for it, blah, blah, blah.
THOMAS: Yeah, I know.
JOLIE: I have been in those discussions.
THOMAS: Same. Same.
JOLIE: Yeah, yeah.
THOMAS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JOLIE: I was in one this morning, so I’ll tell you I think there is an open heart here.
THOMAS: Okay.
JOLIE: But people should make comments and stuff like that ‘cause that’s what the group is, you know, is looking for and that kind of stuff.
THOMAS: 100%.
JOLIE: But, yeah, I liked that.
THOMAS: Cool!
JOLIE: Anyway, this makes me nervous. So, I’m gonna go back and hide out in mute land.
THOMAS: Aw, Jolie, I hope I’m not making you nervous. I hope it’s just the fact that you’re talking to other people that make you nervous. Not me. I hope it’s not me.
JOLIE: Oh, it would never be you because you have Charles Bonnet syndrome.
THOMAS:
JOLIE: And your show, that podcast. I have that. And I hated it my whole life, Thomas, until I heard your podcast on Charles Bonnet syndrome. And I know that’s not the subject at all, but now I can sleep because I don’t hold those pictures and images and light and stuff against them. And now it’s just, as you say, a reverie. It just changed my life. It was nice. It was nice.
THOMAS: Aw, that’s awesome. That’s awesome.
NEFERTITI: All right, thank you for sharing that.
JOLIE: All right, I’m gonna go hide. Bye-bye.
THOMAS: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Cool. So, that’s good. So Jolie looks at that as yeah, that’s blind centered because blind was mentioned first. Cool. I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that. So, I also wanna, I wanna see how ‘cause I think the how is important. The how is very important.
MITCHELL: I think this still is related, but one thing that stuck out to me was the on-screen text. And the reason that this sticks out to me is because there are certain shows, for example, Survivor, where they subtitle English, and sometimes it actually can become more difficult to understand what people are saying when two different people are reading or saying the exact same thing. And I wonder, I guess, what would be the best way or of how to go about understanding. Because obviously, you wanna have everything described, but also, there needs to be some sort of limit.
THOMAS: Are you talking in terms of who should be subtitling, who should be narrating that? Who should be voicing that?
MITCHELL: Well, it’s, I’m more referring to is when subtitles are narrated by audio description, when they’re being said relatively clearly by other people.
THOMAS: Mm!
MITCHELL: And I think that they’re subtitled to ensure that people understand what they’re saying.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
MITCHELL: But in some ways, that could lead to actually more misunderstanding.
THOMAS: And that’s the type of thing we talk about in other blind-centered chats that we have, blind-centered AD.
MITCHELL: Okay.
THOMAS: But here we wanna really focus on that. But I can definitely appreciate what you’re talking about. And just real quick, I think sometimes, you know, it’s a call that someone has to make on whether or not to actually go ahead and voice that. And to me, that’s an access issue, right?
MITCHELL: Yeah.
THOMAS: Like, sometimes our access issues can break someone else’s access or maybe annoy someone, but, you know, someone, a different person is being served by that. And so, I think we always have to kind of remember that.
MITCHELL: Exactly.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely. One size does not fit all when it comes to accessibility.
MITCHELL: Nope!
NEFERTITI: But thank you, Mitchell.
THOMAS: Yeah. Thank you, Mitchell.

CHERYL: I read through the draft criteria, and it is exquisitely detailed. So, kudos to the team for covering so many topics and so many angles. I will say, however, that the writing is often very dense and sometimes even academic, and there wasn’t, at least in my feeling, a real emphasis on plainer language. And sometimes I have trouble understanding reading, and I have to get somebody to read it to me. Or sometimes if writing is very dense, I have to take it and rewrite it in my own words and then cross check and make sure did I get the stuff right. And so, there may be some things that I don’t understand, so I can’t say they’re good or negative, because the writing of this document sometimes is too hard. And so, I wonder if, I’m not asking people to answer, but I do wonder if other people have experienced or may experience trouble knowing whether they can get certified or knowing what certification is about because the document is a little bit hard. I will pause and yield the floor to Scott Nixon.

SCOTT: I completely agree with Cheryl about the draft. The language in it was very, very dense. Very, very not necessarily hard to understand for myself because I’ve had experience with these sorts of documents in the past, but a plain-language version I thought would have been a great idea. Because in many cases in, you know, legislation or things like that in government and so forth, they have obligations to have a plain-language version that anyone can understand. So, creating a plain-language version of this would be good as well.
But the main points that I would like to bring up are this. Going back to the points that Thomas was mentioning at the start when I first came in, things like passthrough and cultural competency and cultural sensitivity and things like that, I don’t think that this is going to really help change much of that, simply because, yeah, okay, we want to create this overarching standard for audio description professionals. That is great, in theory, but which companies are gonna sign on to take this certificate or this training or whatever seriously enough to hire people who are going to go through it? And once these standards are adopted, are they only gonna be recognized in the United States, or are they going to be recognized in Canada or the United Kingdom or here in Australia?
At the end of the day, I in no way mean to harsh anyone’s vibe about this great idea that everyone’s having, but at the end of the day, at the moment, with no company willing to take it on as a standard, no company saying, “we expect you to have done this” or whatever, it’s just another piece of paper. It’s just gonna be another thing. Okay, great. Sure, great to have. And it will increase the amount of blind professionals who are out there in the industry, you know, like myself who is a audio description narrator. But it’s not gonna help with passthrough at all. It’s not going to help with TTS at all. It’s, you know, it may help with competency and cultural competency and things like that.
THOMAS: How?
SCOTT: But we….
THOMAS: Scott?
SCOTT: Yeah.
THOMAS: I just wanna back up because you said that it will increase the amount of blind professionals. How do you see that happening with this?
SCOTT: Because it’s going to be coming through from blind-centered theory, and the information is gonna be passed out to people who are blind or have low vision in the community, hopefully. And people who are blind or have low vision will be able to see it and go, “Okay, well, I’m blind, I have low vision. I think I’ve got a decent voice. I think I might be able to do this, so let’s”—
THOMAS: This is not about narrators. This is not about narrators. It’s only about writers and quality control.
SCOTT: Oh, right. My deepest apologies. I did come in a few minutes late. In that case, scratch that. Okay. We’re taking that off the table. Quality control. it may help with people who, getting more people who are blind or have low vision to come in for quality control. Scriptwriters, I don’t see it working at all. So yeah, like I said, at the end of the day, it’s going to just be another piece of paper. And I don’t see how without getting all the companies together, all the producers together and saying, “Okay, we’ve got this. We wanna get more blind people into the industry,” they’re just gonna turn around and say, “Why? We could do it faster with a sighted person. We could do it faster with a computer” or whatever. Because at the end of the day, it’s coming down to cost. It’s coming down to, you know, speed and accuracy and things like that. And I don’t think this proposal is going to improve standards. It really just comes down to the skills that someone is gonna be bringing to the table, and you can teach them all the skills in the world. There are still gonna be things that, things that slip through. And cultural competency, I don’t see it happening, you know, at all. So, yeah, that’s more than two minutes for me, I’ll shut up now.
NEFERTITI: Thank you for speaking up, Scott, for sharing with us.
THOMAS: Thank you. Thank you. I would want to get an understanding of how someone with no experience who’s interested in becoming, a blind person who’s interested in doing QC, let’s just say QC. Let’s not even touch on the writing. But I would really like to know how would a blind person interested in QC be able to kind of go through this process? Because it seemed like there was a significant, like the barrier of entry seemed relatively significant to get by. It’s really partially because even what Jolie was talking about in terms of getting folks to even be willing, I think there’s that barrier. But then the requirements in here, which I don’t have in front of me, but it was, you know, 100 hours of this or this and that and all of these various things that folks have to take and sign off on and whatnot seemed like an additional barrier. Plus, if we go into, which is not in here, whatever the cost of the trainings, there’s probably a dollar level that has to be reached, not only by the training, but then all of the other things that one has to have, submit to get this piece of paper.
CHERYL: So you said just for the purpose of discussion in this moment, let’s think about blind QC and not so much the writing, just for right now. The certification looked like you have to have X number of hours in, you know, film or TV, that kind of post-production, and X number of hours in live. If you were in the city where I live, I don’t know if blind QC is used in the scriptwriting process in the theatre. Now, you know that the stuff that I write and the stuff that I work on for film, we do employ blind QC. But if you lived where I live, where there’s no…. I don’t know, some of the live theatre describers who I know don’t work with blind QC.
THOMAS: Yeah.
CHERYL: So, for the blind QC specialist who lives in my town who wants to get certified, how on earth are they going to get their hours in the live space if it’s not being offered here? I guess remote is the only option.
THOMAS: I just wanted to point out something that I read in here that I find kind of related to what you just said because it says, it says here, “When possible, a CAUDES involves audio description patrons in the design and development of audio description language and encourages the collection and use of patron feedback.” When possible. I think this should be mandatory. I don’t think that “when possible” should exist, because that’s the problem. That’s the issue that you’re talking about right now, is that folks leave it. You know, it’s always possible. Blind people are all around the country. It’s not that hard.
NEFERTITI: And yet, it is always possible to leave us out, to not include us.
THOMAS: Absolutely. And I think, yeah, and giving this a, making this an option, to me, isn’t blind centered. That’s going back to what we started. That’s not blind centered for me. But we can go to Mitch. Let’s go to Mitch.
MITCHELL: Yeah, I agree with you on this because I’m personally, as someone who doesn’t really live close to any big cities or whatever, so I can’t exactly go places for QC stuff. But I think it’s, it does, I agree about the fact that it does…. You have the ability to leave people out, but also the ability to leave people in. And I agree. I think it is very important that this is mandatory. I just, I do think that that’s true. But I’m also kind of curious in just the, in the broader sense of like, you know, where would you go to get, who would you contact, and who would you contact for when these QC openings opened up?
NEFERTITI: Well, I think that speaks to a little bit about, so you go through this training, however much that will cost. You take the exam, if there’s a cost associated with that. And then will there be a job for you at the end of this? If we’ve established that companies are not necessarily jumping or chomping at the bit to accept this certification as a means to vouch for someone’s competency, then what guarantee is there that there will be a job, Mitchell?
MITCHELL: There isn’t. There isn’t if no one, if no one. Like, it’s just a piece of paper if no one can vouch for it.
NEFERTITI: If no one validates it necessarily.
MITCHELL: No one believes it.
NEFERTITI: That’s interesting. Something to think about for sure. Thanks, Mitchell.
MITCHELL: Glad to help.
THOMAS: So, we talked about the formatting, the accessibility of the document itself, industry adoption. We talked a little bit about, yeah, the fact that blind professionals are really barely being hired right now, let alone having to go and get some certification or even just having other things to do to try to get into the industry. That’s just, to me, it sounds like another barrier. It really feels like that. I should have said this off the top, that this is a critique of the document. This is not a critique of the intention behind the document. It’s not that. Because I think that chances are, most people affiliated with this process have good intentions. I believe that.
NEFERTITI: I agree.
THOMAS: We’re not talking about the intentions. We have to talk about where this is going to lead and how is this going to help? Again, how is this gonna help the quality of AD? How is this gonna help the experience? How is it gonna impact those five things? And so far, I’m not seeing how it’s going to do that.
NEFERTITI: So I wonder if in the last four years that this committee has been meeting, it’s a lot of people involved, which is fantastic, a lot of perspectives from all over the world, though I must note I did not—and Thomas and Cheryl, if you’ve picked up on this, let me know, or if someone in the audience has—I didn’t notice any involvement from Africa or much, if any at all, in South America, was it?
CHERYL: One from South America, none from Central America or Mexico.
NEFERTITI: Central America, ah. Okay.
THOMAS: I mean, I know there were blind folks involved in the process. I don’t know how many.
NEFERTITI: Oh, for sure. I’m not sure of how many, but I do recall going through the extensive list, loving the representation, the amount of people at all sorts of levels.
THOMAS: What part of that representation you talking about?
NEFERTITI: Blind specific.
THOMAS: Blind specific.
NEFERTITI: But also people from other countries.
THOMAS: Okay, okay.
NEFERTITI: People that I’m assuming are of color, some.
THOMAS: Hmm.
NEFERTITI: I don’t know anything about sexual orientation or gender identity, but I’d like to think that that was represented to some degree or another amongst those folks.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
NEFERTITI: It was a big swatch of, nice amount of people over the last four years, and I just wonder what if that time had been put towards these five umbrella type terms that we’ve put out here? The quality, the fight against TTS, the awareness of audio description as an option to enhance access.

THOMAS: We could put this in context because, well, I don’t know if it is in context, but it’s a part of it, I think. I think timing is an interesting part. Because four years, right? So that goes back to 2020. Mm. I think of the climate of 2020.
NEFERTITI: Oh, gosh. Do we have to?
THOMAS: Well, I mean, it’s a part, it’s a, I think that’s context.
NEFERTITI: No, it is, it absolutely is.
THOMAS: I think it’s context.
NEFERTITI: I jest, but the truth is, as much as we may not want to, it has been a tough time on us all.
THOMAS: Yeah, but even if we go back to that, and I’m thinking of what was taking place. Let’s just bring that down to this, right?
NEFERTITI: Yeah.
THOMAS: There’s the cultural stuff, right? There’s all of that. Absolutely. That is a part of this I believe, too, in terms of framing because nothing happens in a void, right?
NEFERTITI: Correct.
THOMAS: Audio description involves everything. Everything.
NEFERTITI: Yes.
THOMAS: But specifically 2020, there was a lot. That was the beginning, to a certain extent, of really sort of like this idea of blind professionals. That was 2020. That’s when that conversation was really up front and center. That’s when it started. And if it was going back before that, I’m not talking about two people somewhere having a conversation, I’m talking about a community conversation. The audio description community was talking about that. The audio description community was really talking about cultural competence, right? I think that’s important. But also, if we look at TTS. TTS was really starting to take place at that time. That was a little before. It was happening, but that was the time that I think we as a community failed to really get a hold on that. So Nef, when you talk about the amount of effort and where some of that effort could have gone, that could be, could really contribute to audio description, we gotta look at the time frame. We have to.
NEFERTITI: 100%. What else was going on? What else were people doing? What else was coming at us? And how did we respond?
THOMAS: I mean, you know, we, obviously, were in the pandemic and all of that, right? But this is, so this came out of during that time.
NEFERTITI: Well, that too. And blind participation too, right?
THOMAS: That’s what I’m saying.
NEFERTITI: That’s when we started being able to record from home.
THOMAS: Yes! Access was taking place.
NEFERTITI: And having more opportunities like that. Yeah.
THOMAS: Yeah!
NEFERTITI: Because everybody was cooped up.
THOMAS: Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Nobody could go out to studios and carry on, right? Like, we had to adjust.
THOMAS: We were having conversations about blind writers.
CHERYL: At the same time, this development of AI writing was exploding, so that is also kind of a threat to having human writers, blind and non-blind.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
CHERYL: I don’t see that addressed in the certification. It may be in the background in the committee who wrote these criteria. I kinda wish it was foregrounded, like really openly stated: “We don’t want AI writing audio description.”
THOMAS: I wanna point out this right here from the document. So it says, “A CAUDES should not allow personal bias to interfere with communicating the creative intent of the original work.” This doesn’t, I mean, it’s a good line, but there’s this thing called unconscious bias. When a person, when a person is not familiar with their bias, they can’t be expected, cultural competency can’t be this checkbox.
NEFERTITI: No.
THOMAS: It cannot be this idea that, “Okay, y’all gotta know what you’re doing. Recognize your bias.” Folks who have bias don’t believe they have bias. You don’t know it. And so, until they understand it, they can’t do anything about it. And if this document, if the training—
NEFERTITI: Some don’t know it. Some don’t care to know it.
THOMAS: Some don’t know. But who’s training? Okay, so what this document doesn’t say is who’s doing the training for these audio description folks, right?
NEFERTITI: Correct.
THOMAS: So if there’s gonna be a certified, if there’s gonna be a certification, that means certain trainers have to be certified. How are they getting trained to teach cultural bias? How are they how going to do that? It’s not in here.
NEFERTITI: How are they getting trained, who’s doing the training, and how do you check up on that?
THOMAS: How do you check up on that? Well, quality control.
NEFERTITI: How do you keep up? Yeah?
THOMAS: Quality control. But it has to be the full thing. So, it’s not addressed in here. So just the idea, I just wanna get this because I need more. And again, this is just my interpretation. But just because words are used in a document doesn’t mean that something’s being addressed.
NEFERTITI: That said, I would love to hear from people who were involved in making this, in putting this proposal together. I really wanna hear, and Thomas and Cheryl, you let me know if you agree, but I would love to hear from folks who were part of, like, where the kitchen was, right? I would love to hear from the cooks in the kitchen if we have any of them amongst us, and you’re comfortable speaking.
THOMAS: Before we do that, or when we do that, because I am open to that. However, I wanna frame that too because this is not, there’s no need for them to defend anything here, right?
NEFERTITI: Oh, not at all.
THOMAS: But if they could shed some clarity, that’s a different thing.
NEFERTITI: That’s what I want.
THOMAS: If they can give some clarity on something, right, that would be fine.
NEFERTITI: Thank you.
THOMAS: But there’s no, y’all don’t need to come up here and say, “Oh, we had great intentions.” I tried to establish that. I think you probably did. I think most of you probably did. I’m an adult. I don’t necessarily think everyone is, you know. But who do we have?
OLIVER: Yeah, I just had the thought that, I mean, it seems possible in theory that, you know, the creation of the institution of certification, this gatekeeping, this committee that has to decide on rules, requirements, and update them regularly, it just seems like a natural consequence of that would be more of a community, more communication and discussion among AD writers. And else equal, that actually could accelerate the adoption of progressive ideas. I mean, even if it’s not said in the draft document, isn’t, can we rule out that it wouldn’t generate more community? And I mean, do we know there would not be democratic or sensitive to movements that support the principles, the goals?
THOMAS: Walk me through a scenario, Oliver. Walk me through a scenario where the certification creates more community. Oliver, I’m not sure if you were here during the beginning framing that in our blind-centered approach.
OLIVER: Well, yeah, I’m saying specifically with respect to these goals like cultural competency, which you would like to see embraced by the AD industry overall, and you know, which are not percolating through, I think, one could argue that that’s because there isn’t really a community of AD writers. But if there were a community of AD writers and somebody heard and was persuaded that it was a good idea to be more culturally competent, then they would tell the other people in their community, and maybe that would become a popular idea. And maybe they would talk, they would talk to the member they know that’s on the committee, or they would host their own continuing education lecture because continuing education is a requirement in certification, as I’m familiar with it. So yeah, I am speaking with respect to the particular goals of, you know, the five ones. I’m sorry I can’t rattle them all off, but it seems worth considering that this is a way of helping.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely. Thank you, Oliver, I just wanna say really quick interjecting here. Remember, folks, your comments, though we will be sharing this audio and transcripts on the Reid My Mind Radio podcast, we do highly encourage you to do your own work in commenting directly to the organization. That’s comments@ACVREP.org, putting in the subject line CAUDES, very important. CAUDES, at comments@ACVREP.org. We still have time till March 31st to get your comments in, folks. March 31st, 2024, to get your comments in to the committee, or to the ACVREP, I should say, the organization.
I will not speak for Cheryl and Thomas, though I’d like to think that you join me in this. I would love to hear from folks who were part of putting this together. As Thomas so beautifully said, this is not confrontation. This is not come up here and defend your work. Not at all. We believe that your intentions are good, and that overall, this is to legitimize audio description as a field, as a practice, as an art form. Though I agree with Thomas, we are all adults here, right? Not all of our intentions are purely good necessarily. But beside all that, I would love to hear from folks, particularly blind folks, right? Blind-centered. Where are the blind folks who were part of putting this together? I just want to, again, encourage any blind folks who are here with us today who were part of putting this together, who had input, who had a seat at the table, let us know. Please speak to us.
How does this all work? How does it come together to improve the quality, the access to the experience?
Whether we got to it here or not today, whatever your thoughts are, and if you haven’t yet, or if you want to go over it again, that proposal is nice and front and center at the ACVREP.org website. But to comment, that would be comments@ACVREP.org with the subject line of or that includes the word, I should say, and if you just wanna make this the subject line, that’s fine too: CAUDES. Very important that that be in the subject line: CAUDES. Let them know.
THOMAS: You know, I feel like this just has a different vibe, this whole idea of the certification. It doesn’t really feel like it’s going to really help. It almost feels like it’s a reversal. It’s a reversal a little bit. Like we’re going cordless, and this is really putting a landline back in the house.
NEFERTITI:
THOMAS: I’m sorry. That’s my silly joke. But yeah, there you go. But I do encourage everybody to go ahead and whatever they feel, by all means, send it in and let’s hope for the best.
JOLIE: You know what? I’m looking forward to getting a certification. Because I feel that if I have a certification, I can say to people, “You know what? Yeah, I’m blind, and I have a certification. I’m a certified audio description specialist, or.” I’m dyslexic. I have trouble with all the letters and stuff. And I think it will make a difference. I absolutely encourage everybody to read this and comment because they need our comments.
THOMAS: Yeah!
JOLIE: If we’re gonna hold people to the fire to or say good things or whatever it is one way or another, it has to be based on, as you say, authenticity.
THOMAS: Jolie, I just wanna say thank you for that, and I wanna let you know that I hope it works out for you. I really do. And for whoever is impacted by that, if that so be. That is truly what I hope for, because I do want you to have an opportunity. However you get that opportunity, I would love for you to have that. So, thank you. Nef, Close us out.
NEFERTITI: Yeah. Just please remember that you do have till the 31st, the 31st of March, 2024 to get your comments in. Be that against, be that for, whatever it is. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your effort. And I agree with Thomas. Whatever comes of this, we hope it is for the best. After all, this is an art form: audio description for us, by us. It should always be about us, and I can only hope and trust that anything of this kind to legitimize it more, or whatever the intentions are, makes it better, improves it, and makes it more open to blind and low-vision folks, who this is all about period. All right, everybody. Talk to you at the next chat!

— Sci-fi sound rises and music begins…
THOMAS: Cool. Well, that concludes this week’s conversation. Why don’t y’all keep the conversation going on social media.
CHERYL: Use #ADFUBU, for us by us, #DescribeEverything, and #AudioDescription.
NEFERTITI: And hey, you know we’re out here, right? Mmhmm! Gathered and galvanized y’all. If you haven’t joined us yet, what are you waiting for?! You can find us in the LinkedIn Audio Description group and the AD Twitter community. We know that your participation will only make these spaces better.
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