Reid My Mind

TR
When it comes to adjusting to disability, do the specifics of a person’s disability really matter?
I’m talking about when it comes to living your life? Finding meaning and your purpose?
Personally, I think these are things we all desire.
Not based on our so called race, economic status or abilities but rather our humanity.

My final guest In this second to last episode of The Art of Adjustment, where we continue to highlight the role art plays in that process, is film maker, Andres Molina.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
But everybody calls me Jay .

Forty six year old Spanish man, light skin wearing a Vegas Raiders hoodie and hat. My pronouns are He/Him.

TR
Welcome to Reid My Mind Radio! I’m Thomas Reid your host and producer.
This may be your first time here, so let me explain the rules.
We don’t officially begin until the drum drops! I’m talking about…

— “Theme music. Every good hero should have some!”, Keenan Ivory Wayans, “I’m Gonna Git You Sucka”

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro
Andres “Jay” Molina:
I was living in the hood. In New York, in the lower east side of Manhattan. I used to be a truck driver. At some point there, I decided that I didn’t want to work as a driver anymore.

I started selling drugs. A few years after that, I got arrested, and I did some time in jail.

TR
After prison, Jay had to do some time in a drug program where he contracted a rare form of Pneumonia.
It put him in the hospital for a couple of years.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Being so long in bed, I lost a lot of muscle mass. I lost my motor functions. I don’t walk today, I became disabled. All this happen in 2014.
— Sounds of busy city streets….

I used to be the type that didn’t really care much about disabled people. When I used to take the bus to go to work, usually there would be a couple of disabled guys, people around the route that I take. And as soon as the bus used to stop to pick them up, I used to be the first one in the bus, “Fuck, these fucking disabled guys. It’s gonna make me late now.”

TR
Hard to hear?
I’m in no way condoning this way of thinking.
Yet, as someone who grew up in New York and traveled to and from school and work on buses and trains, this is not an uncommon attitude.

I remember being on the train headed to class and someone got sick or passed out.
The conductor in these situations isn’t allowed to move the train.
The person even if they are conscious has to remain on the train until the EMT’s arrive.

Even the little old lady clutching her rosary beads is like, “Get them off the bleep bleep bleep train!”

— “Stand clear of the closing doors please!”, Vintage recording of NY transit Subway Announcement
— “New York, New York! (Voice pitched to an ominous deep voice)

Andres “Jay” Molina:
And then it hit me like a smack in the face because now I am one of those people.

Music begins A menacing synth loops and launches into a gritty, slow dark, Hip Hop beat.

TR
Following those years in the hospital, Jay needed physical rehab. He was sent to the Coler Nursing Home on Roosevelt Island. Just off the eastern coast of Midtown Manhattan.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
When I first got to the nursing home I didn’t know anybody of course, So I was just hanging out by myself. And then one of the nurses told me, go outside, there’s people just like you, young like you, and you can talk to them.

TR
Different groups of people congregated Outside the home. It’s a nursing home so the majority are seniors.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
But when I saw these guys actually, one of them looked Dominican, I’m Dominican. And that attracted me more. And as soon as I approached them, they just looked at me and said, “Come on man you with us”. and I started hanging out with them. And that’s when we became friends.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I identified with them. They all looked like they came from the same background that I did. The way they talk. The way they joked around with each other.
It looked more like disabled people from the hood. That’s why I went to them right away.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
How important was that for you to have this group of other Black and Brown Brothers Who were in a similar situation?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I felt really comfortable. They started taking care of me.

TR
they did more than congregate outside the nursing home. They broke bread together.
At the time, Jay was fresh out of the hospital. he didn’t have any money. So they all chipped in to cover Jay.

They helped each other.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Even though I don’t walk I am what is consider independent, I can move my hands. I could move around. Most of my friends are gun violence survivors.
They are paraplegic’s and quadplegic’s, they don’t really have movement in their hands and bodies. So I started helping them.

So for example, I used to roll the blunts for them.

TR
It goes beyond rolling’ the weed, putting the blunt in their mouths and lighting it. Jay would feed his brothers as well.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
So we became close because of that. We got like a family like, I take care of you, you take care of me.

— Nino Brown A toast! (Clinking Champagne glasses)
Am I my brother’s keeper?
CMB Yes I am.

Nino Brown Am I my brother’s keeper?
CMB Yes I am.”, “New Jack City”

TR
While Jay and the other brothers continued to grow their friendship outside the nursing home, they didn’t realize they were being watched.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
A white lady called Jennilie Brewster was doing volunteer work here in the nursing home. She noticed that they didn’t have programs or projects for younger people. Usually, it was about the older crowd. She wanted to do something for us. And she started a writing workshop.

She used to come around to ask us to go to these writing workshops.
But at first we were leery, we were like white people probably police, because we were out there smoking weed.

— Whoop Whoop, Sound of the Police! KRS One

Weed wasn’t legal in New York yet.

Now we’re doing something that we’re not supposed to be doing. And then we had this white woman coming around asking questions.

She was being really persistent. She kept coming. And then one day, we decided to go to one of the workshops just to see what she was talking about.

And she started encouraging us to write about our lived experiences. To write about things that we wanted to write about.

TR
J’s first poem tapped into his memory of living on the lower east side of Manhattan in 2001.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
About how I felt about being part of 9 11

— News clip featuring Brian Gumble after the first tower was hit and before any information was known.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Every piece of poetry that we do is about reality. It’s about what we went through.

TR
The group worked with poetry coaches during the workshops. The next thing you know, the crew was hype, excited about poetry.

Music ends!

Andres “Jay” Molina:
And that’s when we formed the Reality Poets.

TR
The Reality Poets which includes the crew of brothers Jay was invited to join and some others, are a part of what became known as Open Doors NYC.

According to OpenDoorsNYC.org, the group produces artistic collaborations, programs and mobilizing campaigns focused on community building, disability justice and gun violence prevention.

“Hit in the neck I ain’t even feel the burn.
Paralyzed instantly.
Praying to God, please don’t take me now
I got a little girl to look after and
I’m not trying to look after her from the sky”, Reality poet

OPEN DOORS is a project of the Center for Transformative Action-a 501 (c) 3 affiliated with Cornell University.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
What was your experience with poetry prior to disability?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
no experience at all. I never wrote a poem in my life ever. Didn’t even know how to write a poem.

Music begins, “Hooray for Hollywood”
— Explainer video about the film making process.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I started thinking about how are movies made? What are the steps that go about making them? And that always intrigued me.
And that was always what I was after, making a film, documentary, feature film, a fiction film. Just something I think that would be fire.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
So was that an interest before disability?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
After.

I actually taught myself how to work with Premiere Pro. And I also taught myself how to work with After Effects. Taught myself Photoshop too. So I basically became a motion graphics artist.

TR
I can’t help but think about the importance of access.
To people, information, technology all based on our personal abilities.
But still, it begins with That desire to pursue our interest. Which comes down to trust in ourselves.

— Fire Through Dry Grass Trailer

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I wanted to make a documentary about the reality Poets. About everything that we went through and all our accomplishments.

And then in the middle of that, COVID hits.

a hospital called Elmhurst Hospital . in Queens, New York, was the epicenter of the pandemic. And they brought a patient from this hospital, into my room, put him in the bed right next to me. This patient had COVID. He was coughing the whole time he was there, gasping for air.

I have a lot of underlying conditions.

I felt betrayed. All these freaking people don’t care about me. They don’t care if I die or not.

TR
Feeling powerless, Jay reached out to someone he could trust.
Someone he believed cared about him.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I call the director of open doors, Jennilie Brewster. I told her about the situation.

And she said, Jay, you are an aspiring filmmaker. why don’t we just make a film about this?

— ” A nursing home is ground zero. But it just takes one person with a virus and then it is fire through dry grass”, NY Gov. Anrew Cuomo

TR
Prior to the pandemic, Jay was working with an experienced filmmaker after receiving a grant from the New York City Mayor’s Office.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Alexis Neophytides was my mentor. We were working together for a few years before COVID.
I call Alexis right away. And I told her about what I wanted to do. And she said, let’s make this documentary together.

TR
The film, Fire Through Dry Grass, captures the early days of the Covid 19 Pandemic from the perspective of Jay and some of the other Reality Poets. Literally, it’s from their perspective.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
We got like about four GoPro’s and I started clamping them myself to the chairs.

the GoPro shot is like a camera. They have a really big memory card like 60 gigabytes.

TR
Jay and the crew traveled throughout the nursing home documenting what was actually taking place.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
going to different offices within the facility and just recording everything.

TR
We’re talking about two Terabytes of video.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
We also have a lot of footage from outside of the facility. My collaborator, Alexis’ husband, were the ones coming and recording everything from the outside.

Every two or three days, I will just collect the GoPro, download myself into my computer And then upload into our Google Drive.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
As we started talking more and more about the film. We pitched the idea to ITVS public television, PBS channel. They liked it and they actually gave us the funding for it. So we started hiring people to work with us. The job was to watch the footage, and highlight and put aside anything that seemed important.

TR
In addition to zoom footage from the members of Open Doors in conversation as they continued to meet, there’s also arial shots taken from a drone.

Fire Through Dry Grass not only helped tell the story of the dangerous conditions being faced by both
residents and staff during the pandemic, but
it also raises the issue of disabled access to community housing.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
All of us have different agendas.
Most of the guys do want to move out. They always in the hunt for apartments.
Some of them are just here because they haven’t found one yet.

TR
Jay himself was offered multiple apartments. But they were often located in housing projects throughout the city. He didn’t feel safe and they were located far from his family in downtown Manhattan.
That was years ago, before chronic kidney disease.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Which means I am on dialysis.
Even though I could live in the community and just go to the dialysis center, it’s much easier for me to live here.
All I got to do is get on my chair and go to the third floor and do the dialysis session.

TR
Community housing for disabled people is not just about access to shelter.
It’s about having the agency to control your own life and make your own choices.

— “Leave me alone, I want to be free from being told how to live my life
By rules, regulations, laws, bylaws, loop holes, pot holes and assholes
Let me be free to make the decisions that best serve me”, Peter Yearwood, Reality Poet

TR
Ultimately, the message that Fire Through Dry Grass makes clear is Nursing Home Lives Matter.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
During COVID Our now director of open borders, Vincent Pierce , wrote up a petition to get the CEO at that point of Coler, Robert Hughes, removed from his post.

We felt , he wasn’t advocating for us.

He was letting the Department of Health and CMS run all over us, take our freedom away. We felt that we were basically having our human rights violated.
And he wrote that petition to get the CEO removed from his posts, and other organizations saw this, and started supporting us.

That was around the time of Black Lives Matter. they formed Nursing Home Lives Matter.

TR
Robert Hughes, the CEO of Kohl at the time wasn’t fired, but I can imagine, the pressure got to him.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
The CEO retired in 2022.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
What can people do if they want to be of help? How can people support?

Music begins Bright, upbeat, ambient music that sounds like lights bubbling to the surface.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Go to OpenDoorsNYC.org, that’s our home page. There’s a Nursing Home Lives Matter link. When you hit it you go to the Nursing Home Live Matter page. You can join in, leave your comments, leave your ideas on how you think is the best way to change nursing homes. In the country Not just here in New York.

TR
Today, despite the convenience and ease of access to dialysis treatments, Jays opened to living in the community.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
If I find myself in a situation in which I get an apartment, close to my family, my friends, my mother, my sister. I probably think about it again to move

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
Do you think that would impact the reality poet’s if y’all are all, not in the nursing home together?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
No, because we also have two members that don’t live here.
Even though we do get together in person, we usually do everything virtually. Most of our meetings and events are usually through zoom calls. But every once in a while we do have in person meeting or event or project. And we just take an Uber, Access Ride to the location and get together.

TR
Since the making of this film, two of the Reality Poets have moved back into the community.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
Are there any things you learned about disability from making this film?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Disabled people been living in what we call a system of oppression for over 100 years, in which we are treated differently, we are treated like second hand citizens
we are not being respected, we are not given the tools or help that we need to advance ourselves in life. And that’s what we are trying to break with this nursing home lives matter movement, that we matter , we are human beings too.

You still have a mind, you have a purpose, you have a say in your life, and the way you want to live your life, and that should be respected . And that should be enhanced, embellish by the people in power.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
Do you think there’s a power in film to do any of that as a filmmaker yourself?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Of course!

We have advocated a lot for disabled people through the years of us being together.

We have done this movement Nursing Home Lives Matter. We are putting disabled people on the map.

Even though it has gotten better in Hollywood, a lot of disabled artist have been hired now, we think there’s room for more.
Not just actors and directors and screen writers, artists, poets, graphic designers all different type of arts.

I was talking to the group about making the documentary that I wanted to make originally before COVID about the Reality Poets, to show people if you try you could do it you can make it.

Music comes to an end.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
One of the things that you said is that when you became disabled, it sort of helped you discover yourself. And I’m curious to know, how do you feel about that man today?

Andres “Jay” Molina:
Well, I feel like I’m a better person now. Somebody that looks out for his people, people in pain, disabled people, People who need help.
Even though I’m in a wheelchair, whenever I see somebody, you know, like they can’t do it, I tie the shoes, I fix the pants, or fix the shirts, I fix the hats.
if they need me to feed them I will feed them. I’m more in touch with humanity now, which I wasn’t really before.

I didn’t really have a purpose. I found my calling.
, I became a poet. I became a filmmaker, motion graphics artist, Photoshop.

I tell people that I don’t regret me being disabled. And people are like “what you crazy” and I’m like I don’t regret it.

I found myself after I became disabled.

Music begins A very bright, inspirational piano loop that opens to a lively bright up tempo beat.

TR
Salutes to Film Maker, Poet and the newest addition to the Reid My Mind Radio Family, Andre Jay Molina. (Name extended like sports announcer)

— Airhorn

Shout out to all of the Reality Poets and everyone involved in the making of this film.

Fire Through Dry Grass goes beyond the experience of disabled people in nursing homes.
It’s about brotherhood, community, trusting in others and finding your purpose.

You can watch Fire Through Dry Grass on PBS online or the app.

I’m looking forward to more films from Jay on the big screen or other streaming platforms.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
I have ideas.
We wrote a play a few years ago called Fade about disabled men, that co own a barbershop.

— Scene from the play

So the play we had it in a theater for like a weekend, and it was received really, really good. So I’m thinking about making that into an animation stop film.

TR in Conversation with Andres “Jay” Molina:
I like it. And if you need some extra voice talent, let a brother know.

TR
Look don’t shame me. My clock is ticking, if I’m gonna put some points on the board, I have to take the shot!

— Basketball shot clock expiring and swoosh of the ball through the hoop.

TR
Listening to Jay talk about meeting the brothers outside of the nursing home, their camaraderie and their opportunity to collaborate really makes me think I’m still in search of my tribe.
I’ll talk about some of that in my final self-portrait in the next and final episode of this season. The Art of Adjustment.

As I said in the opening of the episode, the details don’t matter as much as we think when it comes to the experience of adjusting

Can you relate to Jay’s story?

Some people focus on differences. I don’t necessarily think that’s bad. Unless you’re judging or viewing through a narrow lens closed to any sort of empathy.

When I hear Jay’s story, I think about the importance of access to explore and pursue our interests.
I’m reminded that , unfortunately, these opportunities aren’t afforded to everyone equally.
Some neighborhoods and schools have programs that encourage young people to explore their creativity.
Some families have the ability and knowledge to make opportunities for their children.

Adjusting to disability can feel like time has stopped.
It’s like being in the middle of a game and the coach pulls you out.
You were just warming up and now you’re riding the bench to no where.

However, time, is access.

For Jay, disability gave him the time to learn a craft. This put him in the position to tell the story of what was taking place in the nursing home during the pandemic. He was prepared and equipped for what became an opportunity.

The older I get, the more I realize how time is limited and therefore quite valuable.

If you’re someone new to disability and feel stagnant, consider this your chance to prepare for an opportunity waiting to present itself to you in the not so distant future.
Hopefully it won’t be during a life threatening pandemic.
But whatever it is, I hope you recognize it and like Jay, light it up!

— Sound of a lighter and an increasing burning fire.

TR:
By the way, you know what else is hot?
Reid My Mind Radio baby.

— “Fire!”

Let’s continue to spread it!

Tell your friends, enemies and perfect strangers that they can get it wherever they listen to podcasts.

There’s transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.

The only way to get there I promise you, is by spelling it right…
that’s R to the E, I D!
— Sample “D…, and that’s me in the place to be!”, Slick Rick

Like my last name!

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

NOMorePasses!

TR:

In 2020 I was invited to participate in a panel conversation with other Black disabled creators.

The panel was a part of the Superfest Disability Film Festival.
— Filtered voice – You know the best disability film festival out here!

The feature film that year was a documentary about a Black Blind artist, poet and writer my friend, Mr. Charles Curtis Blackwell.
If you haven’t listened to that episode, I highly recommend it.
It’s a little different from what I usually do here on the podcast.

Prior to the panel, the documentary was shown. It included “audio description”.
Can you tell by the way I annunciated audio description that I put that in quotes?
— Filtered voice – That’s because it didn’t even deserve the title.

I’m not going into the specifics of what made it awful other than,
it was obviously done on the fly and with no consideration for Blind viewers.
It was done because someone was told they had to have AD in order to have their film shown.
It’s an example of when the compliance approach to AD goes wrong.

I don’t place any blame at all on those responsible for Superfest. Rather the blame lies solely with the person responsible for creating that AD track.

Unfortunately!
— Filtered voice – or Maybe fortunately?
The recording of this specific panel is lost. It no longer exist!
If it were you would hear my rant about the awful audio description.

Oh well! I’ll sum it up for you.

Any film being made about Blind people or a Blind or low vision person that doesn’t include audio description is
— Filtered voice – Say it, say it!
exploitive.

If the protagonist or the main subject of the film can’t independently consume the content, that’s wrong.
It tells me that this person or those like them aren’t even considered as consumers,
rather just subjects to be put on display for someone’s entertainment

The recording may be gone, but I do recall putting film makers on alert.
Anyone, using Blind people as props in their films, videos or any visual content and not making that accessible via audio description, image descriptions, well you gets no more passes.
— Filtered voice – Don’t even try to correct my English)

I’ve accepted excuses in the past based on ignorance. “I had no idea about audio description.”
I get it, it’s true. How could someone know what they don’t know.

But come on, if your subject matter is in anyway related to blindness and you haven’t even considered how Blind people will consume your content;
#NoMorePasses
I think it’s worth calling it out when we see it.
That doesn’t have to be publicly, but it needs to be discussed.
— Filtered voice: No more passes y’all!

But 2020 feels like ages ago.
Today, I have a much better version of this story.
That’s a film featuring a Blind person that not only includes access but
they pay special attention to describing the unseen!

So it’s the second episode of the Flipping the Script 2023 season.
— Sample: “Another one!”, DJ Calid

I’m Thomas Reid. Welcome to Reid My Mind Radio. Let’s get it!

Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music

Meet Set & Pedro

Set:

My name is Set Hernandez. I use they them pronouns. I am a filmmaker, community organizer. And more recently, I am the director, producer of unseen, which is a feature length documentary.

I am person with olive complexion. black rimmed glasses, black hair, black beard, round face. Today, I’m wearing a striped shirt with light blue and gray.

The film follows my friend Pedro .

Pedro:

My preferred pronouns are he him, they them. I’m a social worker.

I am five nine. My skin is light brown, and I am bald. And I wear glasses.

Set:

… as he navigates the uncertainties of life being an undocumented immigrant who also happens to be blind.

The Meeting

TR in conversation with Set:

Pedro was your friend, were you guys friends before the film?

Set:

We met because I’m also an undocumented immigrant.

I’ve been doing community organizing since I was 18. I was involved in this program that was providing professional development opportunities for undocumented young adults.

Pedro:

Dream summer.

Set:

Pedro was part of this cohort that we had that year to do work around this area of healthcare and Immigrant Justice.

TR:

Part of Set’s role in communications for the organization included pitching stories to the press
and making YouTube videos about the work the cohorts were doing.

Set became more interested in Pedro’s story as his stood out from others.

Set:

that was the only person who we knew to have a disability in the program at the time.

I’ve come to realize how the experience of having a disability and being undocumented, are very much not discussed, often in the rhetoric of the immigrant rights movement that I have been a part of.

There’s often like this erasure, and maybe even like ableism in the narrative of the immigrant rights movement.
This idea that to prove your worthiness to become a citizen, you’re hardworking, taxpaying and all that stuff.
it kind of values a person based on their economic output, as opposed to their full humanity.
my intention really, was to uplift this experience of the intersection of disability and immigration, which hasn’t really been discussed much in the community in the movement that I’ve been a part of.

— Music begins: A bouncy, “Afro beats” influenced track.

The Idea

TR in Conversation with Set:
How did you approach Pedro with the idea?
“Hey, I want to follow you around.”
(Set & TR laugh)

Set:

I remember, I was driving home, and I got to my apartment building in the garage. And that’s when I was talking to Pedro about first reaching out to him for filming.
This was I think, maybe may or April 2016, when Barack Obama was still president. It feels like eons ago.

TR:

In this particular case, the spotlight comes with additional risks.

Set:

Each undocumented person weighs risks for themselves individually.

Pedro:

Back then, I was going through a really rough patch. I was barely in the middle of my undergrad and I thought I didn’t have anything to lose.

Set:

Within the experience of being undocumented, it’s almost like every moment is risky.

When I first applied for DACA years ago, Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals,
there was this idea that once you submit the information for DACA, it can give you benefits, but also, you’re pretty much telling the government that you’ve been here and documented, Here’s my address, here’s my information and I’m going to move forward with this application. If this program gets rescinded, then the government has your information.

Do I take this risk? Do I try to live my life and try to access the benefits that this program can offer me?

TR:

The greater the risk, the greater the return.

Set:

We were able to get DACA, because of the organizing of undocumented youth.

A lot of the tactics that we use was to tell our story. Eleven million undocumented people at the time – we’re like this statistic with no identity in many ways, coming out of the shadows and standing in our truth really acknowledging our experience and our inherent dignity as human beings in this country, who are part of our communities.

that act of telling your story is pretty much putting a spotlight on you.

I’ve been in the shadow all this time now I’m going to come out. What’s the risk that it has for me to tell my story? And what are also the prospective opportunities that I can gain from this.

There are risks in making a film explicitly about undocumented person. There’s individual risks, but also there’s a benefit for our community, and maybe ourselves that we kind of have to take into consideration.

Pedro:

I don’t consider myself an activist.

I have a great respect for activist doing all the grassroots work. It takes a lot of work, and it takes a big toll on your mental health. So because of my frail mental health, I honestly don’t think that I would be able to do it. I feel that I work best when I’m behind the stage.
Even in my line of work, I don’t really like to do group work. I do mostly working one on one with a client. And that’s what I do best. I like to have a more controlled environment.

TR:

Personally, I’m a card carrying member of the control freak club.
But there’s some real value in letting go.

Pedro:

I have been tricked into the idea of surrendering.
Back then I was very resistant of what was going on, not knowing that I didn’t have any control over my life. Because of my disability, my immigration status, my mental health. It put me in a position that I wanted to have control over everything. Because it felt very uncertain.

if I didn’t have control, my life was gonna spin out of control.
My life was gonna get into a rabbit hole. But the more control that I wanted to have in my life, the more that I was getting into that rabbit hole. So it became very counterintuitive.

When I started exploring the idea of surrendering. Just letting life flow and being okay with it, accepting that things are how they are and that life is not fair. But the fact that life is not fair, doesn’t mean that life is miserable, or life has to be bad.

I have come to terms with it. Somehow I got into this for a reason. And let’s make the best out of it.

— Music ends with track playing in reverse.

TR:

File that one under gems as we return to the film, Unseen.

Set:

Set:
unseen is a film about desire, wanting something really bad. And that you think that when you get that thing you really want it would solve all of your problems. But when you finally get it, you realize that actually doesn’t solve any of your problems. And if anything, there’s more problems that you have to confront.

The film traces Pedro’s story as he follows his journey to become a social worker, hoping that doing so would allow him to support his family and also provide services for his community that is so lacking, especially in the immigrant and disability community where he’s coming from.

Pedro:

I did ask him, okay, we’re gonna do this, but how am I going to see it? How am I going to experience it?
And that’s when he was talking all about accessibility.

TR in Conversation with Set:

Yeah, so from the beginning, you recognize that you wanted Pedro to actually be a consumer of this film?

Set:

Oh, my gosh, like, of course,.

TR:

Compare that to the story I shared in the intro.

Set:

Maybe part of it is like coming from being undocumented, being queer person of color. I feel like sometimes, we get spoken to, or people speak on our behalf instead of letting us speak for ourselves.

Pedro:

That’s when I introduced him to audio description.

I was telling him about the Netflix films and how now the originals from Netflix have audio description.
He started getting really into it, and started exposing himself into different projects, or talking to different people, film makers.

He started learning a lot because the goal was to make it as accessible as possible.

His main concern is like, I want you to have the full experience of the film. I want you to be able to fully access the film and make it so you can enjoy it and not be just guessing, like what’s going on right now?

Set on Access

Set:

I’m very much a believer in I don’t know what’s best for you.

Pedro actually, was in many ways my teacher and mentor also around so many things, accessibility, mental health, emotions, like beyond accessibility.

Pedro is truly one of the people that have taught me a lot about life and his friendship has really been so important to me.

TR:

That relationship comes through in the film as well as
in the attention to detail in the implementation of the access.

Set:

Toni Morrison, she has this interview with Charlie Rose, where he was asking her if she’d ever consider writing about white people, I think that was the framing of it.
Toni Morrison said, it’s like, our lives have no meaning without the white gaze.

I feel like you can apply that to the experience of many communities.

The stories of undocumented people have no meaning without the gaze of citizens.

The stories of people with disabilities have no meaning without the gaze of the non disabled.

TR:

Assigning value only when it reaches a standard set by a dominant group.
As opposed to being a full participant in telling your story.

For marginalized groups, historically, that just hasn’t been the case.

Set:

People in places of power speaking on behalf of other folks.

In documentary filmmaking, I think it often happens that way.

The people who have a lot of resources are often people who are not from our communities.
To be honest, white filmmakers telling stories of people of color and like non disabled people telling the stories of people with disabilities.

I’m very much a person who likes really honoring, and preserving relationships and friendships.

I have a lot of people in my life that I love and cherish.
I wouldn’t want to cause any harm to Pedro.

At the end of the day, Pedro, this is yours. This is your life story.
How can I amplify the experiences that you have? Making sure that it’s as enjoyable for you when we finally get to experience it with an audience?

— Transition: Swoosh

Set:

I may be undocumented queer person of color having experienced all these marginalization’s, but being a non disabled person, there’s also certain considerations that have to be mindful of that Pedro experiences all the time

— Transition: Film Slate

Filmmakers have this idea that they’re going to change the world with their films, especially if it’s about a social justice issue, or a person who’s like navigating really difficult experiences in life. But how can you expect your film to change the world? If you’re like hurting the person you’re featuring in the film?

— Transition: Digital descending as in failure!

I feel like it’s important for every human being to just always be mindful that we are all humans. We’re all gonna make mistakes.

TR in Conversation with Set:

Sometimes it feels like folks, they lose their sense of humanity, because they don’t see other people as human.

If everyone can relate on that level, yeah, things would be a whole lot different.

What were some of your early expectations around audio description before even starting? What were you thinking about it?

Set:

Originally my idea was we’re gonna make this film and it’s gonna be so accessible in this really artistically exciting way and it’s gonna be amazing.

Ultimately, I like trying to reinvent things, but sometimes the wheels there already. don’t reinvent the wheel.

As a person who’s not usually an AD user, a non blind individual, I feel like, it’s not necessarily my place to reinvent that we’ll because I don’t even use description all that often. Who am I to say that I know better than 80 users?

this is the first feature I’m working on. I’m realizing that when you’re a director
part of the trick of directing, is recognizing when you don’t know that you don’t know everything.

TR:
Set sought out some assistance.

— Music begins: An up tempo, bright Hip Hop beat.

Set:

Bringing producers and collaborators that really understand and follow their guidance around these aspects of the project.

There’s many mentors like yourself, Cheryl green, a captioner from the film, accessibility co producer with you for the film.

Cheryl taught me that there’s no one size fits all for accessibility. Choice, having options, that can make things accessible.

Everyone has different access needs.

I’m also learning that sometimes people have conflicting access needs.

it’s really important to understand my own limitations, my own learning curves.

I should also share another mentor in this project, Matt Lauderbach.

TR:

In addition to AD and captions, there are several parts of the film that are in Spanish and include English subtitles.
Rather than having one voice read each, multiple voices were used to easily distinguish between characters.
Human voices along with an authentic Spanish speaking human narrator, Reid My Mind Radio Family member Nefertiti Matos Olivares.

As with any film project, description is constrained by the available time that doesn’t overlap with any dialog or informative sound design or music.

Often Blind and low vision AD viewers don’t learn of the visual aesthetics of a film.
In Unseen, the majority of the film is blurry.

Set:

The idea was how do we invite people to watch a movie by listening as opposed to by leaning into all the visual information that cinema usually does.

Also, Pedro is a social worker he spends a lot of his time listening to people what is it like for us to spend the next 90 minutes of our lives listening to this person who’s spent so much of his time listening to others.

We realized that blurriness can also imply uncertainty of life, the visual aesthetic had more thematic implications, but since the get go the idea was never to simulate blindness.

The intention might not have been that, but the impact is that.
I’m curious how that landed on you. It would be also great to know your perspective.

TR in Conversation with Set: 36:52
I had that concern. I was like, ah, the simulation thing.

TR:

If you’re interested in my take on simulations, check out the episode titled ,
Live Inspiration Porn – I Got Duped, from March 2020.
I share an experience I had where I observed a bunch of sighted folks “walk in our shoes”.
But as far as Unseen is concerned.

TR in Conversation with Set:

I thought it was more about undocumented, that Pedro is living this sort of life of being unseen.

From my understanding, Pedro is the only one who’s actually kind of in focus.
that’s a statement in itself. It’s like, you are the center of this talk. Like you’re flipping the script on this.

TR:

This and other information is passed to the AD viewer through the delivery of a pre show.
In the case of Unseen, it’s a prepended addition to the film and AD that
AD writer, Cheryl Green refers to as an on ramp.
Sort of gently taking you into the film.
— Pre-show Sample

Pedro:

details make a big difference …

little things,

since it’s a bilingual film, some of the characters having different voices, makes it more understandable
little details that may not seem important for other people make the experience enriching?

It is an art because you have to describe something in such a rich way for a person to paint a picture in their mind.

TR:

The thing about images and yes, audio description, it’s subjective.

Pedro:

I guess it’s all about perception. for instance

the scene with the traffic? how said make it seem that it was like I was about to get run over?

TR:

Oo! I just knew this scene was going to come up somehow in our conversation.

— Clip from Unseen:

Sounds of heavy traffic – cars quickly driving by and the sound of Pedro’s white cane sweeping back and forth.
Set: “Friend, you want to move closer to the left?”… Ok, so?
Pedro: “Uh, no!”
Set: Inaudible mumble. Uh, ok. Are you ok?”
Pedro: “Yeh, I’m ok”
Set: “Ok.. stick to your left. Don’t get run over!”
Pedro: “According to me, I’m still in uh, the curb, no?”
Set: “You’re still on the curb, yeh! Nah, I’m just like ahh! Fast cars!”
— Scene fades out.

TR:

Set’s concern while probably not warranted is something many of us have experienced.
It comes from a good place but can have repercussions.

Pedro:
It made me doubt for a second, I actually had to double check with my cane how close I was from the curve.
I was right. I was not that close to it.

TR:

When it comes to orientation and mobility we have to have trust in ourselves, as Pedro did.

When consuming AD, we’re trusting in someone else’s perspective.

While AD paints images from a pallet of words, it inherently leaves out those who speak other languages.
Which is a missed opportunity especially when television and movies can often bridge all sorts of gaps.

— Sample audio from a Tela novella.

Pedro:

Novellas in a way, it’s an excuse to just spend time with your family, especially with the older folks. It’s just one of those activities that allow you to spend time with your family.

In order to strike a conversation with my older folks, during the commercials. Okay, tell me what’s going on?

The accessibility is not there. And I highly doubt that is going to be there anytime soon. Because The stigma with disabilities the Spanish media are not putting our interests in mind.

TR:

Let’s be clear, that stigma, ableism, well we know exist in every community.
Pedro recognizes and acknowledges the work of the Spanish speaking disabled community pushing back.

Pedro:

It takes a minute to change people’s minds and to help them see a different perspective.

TR in Conversation with Set:
What conversations do you
really want to start with this?
It seems like there’s multiple

Set:

love, love this question. Yes, there are multiple

When we think about social issue films, the idea of impact that we have in mind is this macro socio political impact, we’re going to change laws, we’re going to transform society, we’re going to make it more just and equal.

We want to make sure that this film contributes to really bringing together the disability and Immigrant Justice Movement in the US to begin with maybe also in other places.

Historically, in the immigrant rights movement, we don’t really uplift the experiences and the needs of people with disabilities. And likewise, in the disability justice community, there’s not often a recognition that sometimes a person doesn’t have documentation, and something like the ADA might not benefit them, so how do we uplift these realities?

Pedro:

The first step is just to start talking about it.

The three issues can be very uncomfortable issues for many groups, immigration, mental health, disabilities,

Having an excuse to start conversation about those topics. Actually challenge the previous views about those topics.

If we can start a conversation and start opening up our ears and our hearts and our eyes more into those topics, and just explore them for what they are just part of life, part of an identity of a person. But it’s not the whole person, we would have done our job.

Set:

But in the course of making the film, I’m realizing that it also had a very personal impact on the people who are involved in the film, so many of our team who understand their experiences to be so similar to Pedro’s , whether they’re other undocumented individuals or their people with disabilities, finding a story that’s so much about the roundedness of a human being not just about the issues that they’re facing.

it’s like a healing oriented goal. And that’s not to say that the other goals around socio political aspects of the story no longer exist, because they’re very much still there.

TR in Conversation with Set:
Is there something that you would want to share about how this personally impacted you ? I mean, this is years of your life?

Set:

For the longest time, I was thinking so much about organizing, the world around me, the injustice that everyone faces, I minimize the pain and the struggles. I don’t know how I’m feeling emotionally.

Set:

I think being in touch with my humanity, allowed me to also understand the things that Pedro talks to, in the film, his own inner demons that he’s struggling with. Depression, worries, fears. Those are things that I feel also as a human being, but for the longest time I suppress them, because I was like, There’s bigger problems in life, why am I worried about my own tiny world.

I’m realizing, I have to open up myself to my own humanity, so that I can also understand the humanity of the person whose story I am trying to uplift with his film.

If I can feel it in this way, if other people from our community can feel it this way, how cool would it be for everybody to be reminded that what you’re going through as an individual, you don’t have to minimize it you are enough, what you’re going through is valid.

the film is also a story of love.
people have been so kind to us in making this film.
And it just gives me so much encouragement.

There’s so many filmmakers who are struggling to make their film. And of all these filmmakers how come our project gets to experience this love?

in our communities, there’s so many people who experience so much inequity every day, how come we’re the ones that get to have these resources?
Our project is just as worthy as everybody else’s.

— Music begins: A melancholy groove.

TR in Conversation with Set: 1:10:55
What would you like to say is the answer to that question? Why this movie?

Set: 1:11:19

(Exhales!)

Why this movie? That’s a good question.

There are so many serendipitous moments that happen in life. And sometimes, we just kind of have to take that opportunity and embrace it.

One of my mentors Sabaah Folayan with firelight media, she said, we only live once, when ancestors, community, choose us for a certain thing, we just gotta seize it.

That question of why me, there’s got to be a series of logical reasons as to why me.

Maybe sometimes I got to stop rationalizing. Maybe sometimes I just got to accept things for what they are.

TR in Conversation with Set:

I would like to think that it’s a combination of that energy. And yes, this was something you were supposed to do and the part that you’re doing is that you stayed the course and did the work and so therefore you’re rewarded. That’s what I would like to think.

Set:

my desire to be the best person that I can be every day is so that I can reciprocate the love that I’ve received from people like my family.

There’s so many people who go through the day, wondering if someone cares about them. And

maybe that’s why I want to do my best to do right by Pedro. He and his family has made me feel so much affirmation.

And in the course of telling this story with them, that the least I can do is to do right by them.

— Music fades out.

TR:

Unfortunately, our experiences with audio description, don’t always leave us believing that others care to do right by us.

That could mean;
– the listening devices in the theater that seem to never actually work
– movies and television shows released without audio description altogether
– Sitting in a classroom and the instructor announces they’re going to play a video and there’s no AD.

Pedro came to believe this was just the norm. But today, he finds himself constantly confronting that stigma.
And when the result is access, audio description for example, the results are quite different.

Pedro:

You feel that you are starting to belong more and you connect more with your You are a part of the gang. You’re no longer the outsider.

— Music begins: An inspirational opening synth leads into a funky up tempo groove.

TR:

Belonging, connecting, no longer an outsider… finally being seen.

As of early June, 2023 Unseen is steadily being accepted to film festivals including
Hot Docs in Toronto, L A Asian Pacific Film Festival and more.
And it was announced that it will also be a part of the PBS documentary series POV.

Set:

they are including us for season 36 for a national broadcast in the US and US territories for the film.

Every screening that we have, we’re making it explicitly named, that ad and Captions are available so that if you are an ad user, you’re not wondering, is this going to be accessible for me? We’re making sure that venues are accessible for wheelchair users, ASL interpreters cart and also bilingual interpretation if need be.

One of the mentors for the project was saying this film, in essence, is an invitation for folks who don’t often think of the film festival or the theater as a space for them.

this film is really an invitation for everybody, like hey come!

we’re making this theater like as accessible for you as possible, but also the recognition that accessibility is not a one size fits all. So please do give us feedback if there are things that we can continue to improve.

TR in Conversation with Set:

Congratulations set.

Set:

Thank you so much. Congratulations to all of us.

Thank you for making the audio descriptions. That sound mixing of the ad casting the ad voices everything like this so grateful for your collaboration.

I’m reflecting on when we first met. Over zoom.
This was 2020

TR in Conversation with Set:
was 2020. Yeah,

Set:
Three years later? Oh my God!

(The two laugh))

TR:

You know you want to checkout the Unseen!

Set:

@watch unseen film is our handle and all social media or you can also follow us on our website and seen that film.com To keep posted about screenings and other upcoming opportunities as we get distribution for the film.

TR:

What a difference a few years can make.

Contrasting the film I mentioned at the opening of this episode and Unseen,
I don’t think the differences has anything to do with time.

Some say, it’s an awareness of accessibility.

I think Set actually hit on the fundamental difference;

Set:

“I’m realizing, I have to open up myself to my own humanity, so that I can also understand the humanity of the person whose story I am trying to uplift with his film.”

TR:

Big shout out to both Set & Pedro.
The latest additions to the Reid My Mind Radio family!

Oh, I’m mean, official!

[Airhorn]

As always, I hope you’re enjoying the podcast.
Wanna show it?
Tell a friend to tell their friends and we can all be friends!
Make sure you’re subscribed or following the podcast.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com
Just in case what I’m saying sounds a little blurry,
let me make it clear….
that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample: (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:

Audio: “Fellow Americans, it’s with the utmost pride and sincerity that I present this recording …” PSA, Jay Z (Just Blaze)
— Beat rides underneath…

TR:

Welcome back to another episode of Reid My Mind Radio.

Audio: “Allow me to reintroduce myself, my name is…” PSA, Jay Z

TR:

T.R E I D, Moving podcasts by the GB!

. I’m your host and producer of this podcast.
Bringing you stories and profiles of compelling people impacted by all degrees of vision loss and disability. Plus, I occasionally explore my own experience around becoming blind as an adult. I try to present that in my own way blending my words with audio and sound design.

Before we get into it, you know movin’

Audio: “Moving’ doin’ it you know” Sex machine, James Brown

I want to send a shout out to those of you who subscribe to the podcast. I truly appreciate you. That simple act of hitting that subscribe button especially if you subscribe via Apple Podcast, increases the chances for others to discover the show.

Audio: Music stops…

I don’t know why, that’s just what they do!..

Music re-starts…

One of my main goals of producing this show is to hopefully reach those who are new to the experience of blindness, low vision, vision loss I think the people across the Atlantic refer to it as sight loss. Maybe you are recently experiencing some form of disability. I think there’s something for you here.

It’s a shift in attitude that is not based on changing just to change but it’s based on experience. Experience from people who have been where you are right now and worked their way through it. People who accepted what they were given, people who didn’t feel the need to overcome but rather embrace and continue.

Hmmm!

If you are new to disability let me send you a very warm welcome. A virtual hug going out to you. I’m referring to anyone impacted by disability. Whether you are Blind or Low Vision or maybe you are the spouse, parent or child or even the friend of… we got something for you right chere. And yes, I said right chere!

So with all of that said, I hope you are ready because I want to introduce you to a new friend of mine who brings a different perspective to how we view accessible media content.

I just hyped myself up and I hope you can feel it too!

Let’s go!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Intro

# Cheryl Intro

My name is Cheryl Green. I am an independent documentary producer and audio producer.

TR:

She’s also a strong advocate and maker of accessible media content including subtitles, captions and audio description.

As an independent film maker, we see that’s just one of the unique perspectives she brings to her work.

# On Disability

[TR in conversation with CG:]
What is your relationship with disability?

CG:

I like that question. It’s so much nice and more nuanced then what’s your disability and what’s your diagnosis because disability experience is so much more than medical diagnosis.

One of my relationships to disability is political. I’m always looking at cultural and political things from a disability rights and disability justice platform. Another relationship is that almost all of my friends and significant people in my life are disabled people. And then because I like things in three’s; my relationship to disability is that I have multiple invisible disabilities, but I’m not sure that invisible makes sense as a term. Non-apparent or easy to hide. Some of them are acquired and some are stuff that I was born with that has shown up later in life from kind of living as a knucklehead and now it’s coming up. Laughs.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Laughs…

Oh boy there’s a lot of stories right there. In that one statement, living as a knucklehead. Oh boy!

CG:

Laughing…

But it’s funny because that’s the one that I was born with. It’s a connective tissue disorder and for me it’s very mild , but I have dislocations and I have chronic pain chronic tendonitis, ligaments that are over stretched. I was born with it. The knucklehead part is that I over did it as an athlete through most of my life. So just chronic injuries and stuff but it’s nothing as fun and exciting as you know…what did she do?

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Laughs…

# Captioning

## TR:

Cheryl also experienced a Traumatic Brain Injury that she says is indirectly related to the complications of the connective tissue disorder.

Our conversation however, focused on accessible media content. Beginning first with captioning.

Now I know most of you listening are way smarter than me but I needed a clarification between sub titles and captions.

CG:

Subtitles are just a typed out version of what people are saying. It’s just words on the screen as the words are being spoken. Captions also provide descriptions of the sounds music, whether there’s traffic going by, dogs barking. When possible you can add in a description like whispering or tense voice . There’s all sorts of descriptors you can add in there.
They should identify who’s speaking and when the speaker switches.

The thing about subtitles is that they actually assume that it’s only hearing audiences watching a film that has subtitles because there’s no indication when the speakers change. And if you’re looking at a sunrise and two people are off screen talking and you just see sentence after sentence after sentence there’s actually no way to know who’s talking and when the speaker’s switching. And to me I don’t see how you can follow what’s happening if you don’t know when the different people are talking.

TR:

Maybe you can’t tell yet, but this subject has a special place in her heart. It’s not just about words on the screen.

CG:

I love captioning more than anything else that I do. One thing that I love about captioning is that it is so precise, detailed, tedious and repetitive. That just works for me.

I look at captioning as part of the art. I do not think of it as a piece of accessibility that you have to add or want to add at the end. To me it’s artistic. Translating things. I can’t literally caption every single sound that is in a piece of art. That doesn’t make sense it’s not even possible. So I have to make creative decisions based on what I think it most important from the creator’s perspective and what I think audiences will want to get from something. I don’t want to be like “Speaks slowly, whispers quietly, birds chirp” I want it to be rich and lush especially when the film or the show is rich and lush. I feel like it’s my duty to make the captions as interesting and beautiful and artistic as the film is.

For me captioning is something that I can do in a move towards justice and equity. It is access to information. Whether that’s the news or pure entertainment or something that’s informational or somethings that’s on a social issue. it’s about equity. It’s not just about meeting compliance. I love doing it and I love what it can bring to people and how it can include more people in media and in conversations.

# Audio Description

TR:
Captioning eventually led Cheryl to find an additional way to make media more inclusive and engaging.

CG:

Through one more piece of access that’s very artistic , very subjective and hopefully integrate it into the art itself.

TR:

Maybe that’s not the way you’re used to thinking about or even hearing Audio Description discussed. . but that’s what she’s talking about.

Cheryl recalls first thinking about AD after providing captions for a client and then reading their Facebook post which read;
CG:
“Hey my video has captions now it’s accessible to everyone!”

## TR:

This just wasn’t true!

CG:

You have to be able to read quite well and quite quickly to follow captions. No, captions are not accessible to all people because not everybody can read in whatever given language there in but also I looked at that and thought well these captions are just visible on screen and if you’re not
looking at the captions there not there.

TR:

There’s all sorts of benefits gained from captioning and Audio description. And not just for the consumer.

CG:

I think it takes a lot to acknowledge you know what, I made a great film here but I recognize that not everybody can access it because of the way I made it.

There’s a big piece of acknowledging this film is not complete until more people can come in.

From a capitalistic sense if you have great content and you want an audience why not make your content available to a bigger audience. It just makes sense.

But I hate capitalism so I do also value more of a disability justice and social justice and equity lens to say people need to be participating in civic engagement, arts, culture, entertainment and all of it. And What can I do to make that more accessible and available to more people.

# Film

TR:

She’s answering that question from multiple points of view. That’s a Caption & Audio Description provider and as a film maker.

Following the brain injury which impacted her ability to cook as well as organize she did what anyone would do;

CG:

I made a comedy film about it and it took off.

Audio: “Cooking with Brain Injury”

TR:
Okay, maybe that’s not what everyone does.

That first film was called “Cooking with Brain Injury”

A short film looking at daily struggles of life after traumatic brain injury with dark, honest humor.

CG:

I sold many copies of it. I’ve taken it to state and national speech therapy conferences. I’ve done Continuing Ed. trainings around it and it was totally impairment based. It was a window into my world.

TR:

After other films around brain injury, she decided it was time to close that window.

Audio: window closing

CG:

I realized I need to get out of the spotlight and get behind the camera and do more. Over the years my films have become much less about impairment and much more about disability experience, marginalization, self-empowerment, autonomy and decision making. I do a lot of cross disability work now. It was all brain injuries in the beginning but that didn’t hold my attention because it can be so impairment focused.

TR:

Cheryl’s first film didn’t start out with Captions or Audio Description.

CG:

I didn’t know about access at all when I started, but as soon as I found out I could copy down the spoken words and put them up on the screen; it didn’t look good , but those words were on the screen. And I loved it!
Then I got educated about Captioning software

TR:
She became quite serious about the craft.

CG:

I read up on the FCC guidelines. I love it when the FCC issues new guidelines new recommendations. I’m there with those white papers reading them to make things the best that I can.

I have seen some people criticize the FCC guidelines for example saying, “I don’t care what the guidelines are I want to know what Deaf people want.”

Number one, Captions are not just for Deaf people. There’s a lot of different kind of people who want and need Captions.

Number two, there were Caption users on the committee that wrote the FCC guidelines.

They’re really good guidelines . They make for beautiful Captions They included actual consumers actual Caption users in their creation and that’s another reason I really value them.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

You really are a Caption nerd! Laughs…

CG:

Laughs… I’m such a nerd!

TR:

Deep passion for a given subject. That’s what separates the nerds from the rest.

In this case, the passion is all about inclusion, social justice and equity.

CG:

I have a lot of clients a lot of filmmakers who come to me for captioning and they have a lot of complaints about the way captions look. Or they make requests that I find unreasonable. They’re unreasonable because they are centering that hearing filmmaker who doesn’t actually know what Captions are or can’t really articulate what Captions are for. And I say, your aesthetics around Captions are not what I’m working with. I am working to serve Caption users and I have very explicit reasons why I make the choices that I make. I’ll negotiate with you. I’ll talk with you on the phone but you have to understand that Caption users come firsthand I’m not interested in your aesthetic choices around the Captions.

If you want access you would make captions the most accessible that I know how to make. I get into fights with people all of the time and it’s so much fun!

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Laughs!

TR:

Don’t worry, know one’s out here recklessly out starting fights. This is all about advocating for the user.

CG:

IF content creators always included Caption users and Audio Description users in their minds and their target audience then it wouldn’t be a thing. But it’s specifically because people whether it’s willfully or they just have somehow remained oblivious through their careers, they don’t even consider people who would benefit from the access as part of their target audience. That’s why I harp on it . I would love to get to a place where it’s just we have to do color correction, we have to do sound sweetening, we have to trim off 35 seconds on this, we have to add the Audio Description. Boom, boom,boom boomboom!

When it’s just part of the practice, yeh, I won’t have to be so political and I won’t enjoy fighting with people. But until we’re at that day for whatever reason I enjoy being super fired up and political about it.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

The order in which you laid that out where you said ok, they have to do some color correction, do this and let’s add Audio Description. I want that thought about in the writing because to me the end result would be better. I still think that when it comes to things like Audio Description and Captions, there’s a charity model that starts off the process.. Let’s do this because you know (the following said mockingly) it’s a good thing to do for the people. Let’s give this to them so they can be happy.

If they thought about it has what you said which is it’s going to make our film better Not just because more people are seeing it but it actually may do something better to the film Meaning, if you think about Audio Description at the time of writing it at the time of producing that film chances are you’re going to think of something that’s going to enhance it.

CG:

Oh, hundred percent! Oh my gosh, I just got interviewed yesterday they were like what’s the one take home message that you 3want filmmakers to have.

I say, you put access in your budget in the pre-production phase. You put it in your budget so there’s no “oh we didn’t know”. And then you always consider it. You don’t just get the supplementary footage or the daily footage.

There’s kind of this idea that you find something beautiful you hold the camera on it for at least 10 seconds, get a good shot. You know what? Do it for 40 seconds because then when we’re editing there’s the opportunity to say let’s stretch out this shot a little more because then we can put the Audio Description in.

I am totally with you that if you are considering this stuff from the beginning you’re going to film it differently. You’re going to edit it differently. It is going to be better.

TR:

This is coming from an experienced film maker.

CG:

When I filmed my documentary and I was still new to this, I told my Director of Photography, “Don’t ever do extreme close ups. Ever” I don’t want any extreme close ups. Even with the mouth off to the side because we are going to have captions in every version of this film ever shown. I told the Editor, “I need you to put in spots, stretched out spots where Audio Description can come in.”

Now unfortunately I wasn’t trained in Audio Description back then, and so we didn’t nail that as well. We didn’t have enough stretched out spaces and the Audio Description isn’t as lush as it could be.

We did some re-editing and we added in more space. I re-wrote the script, the original Audio Description script, hired other voices to do it. As you watch my film progress over time the same film different versions Audio Description becomes more lush, more engaging more honest because now I understand Audio Description a little better. So there were things that were a little vague in the description.

TR:

For many such re-writes would feel like a chore.

Like her latest production, “Who AM I to Stop it”, a documentary film on isolation, art, and transformation after brain injury, was selected for Superfest International Disability Film Festival.

The longest running disability film festival in the world – co-hosted by San Francisco’s Lighthouse and the
Longmore Institute on Disability at San Francisco State.

Superfest is one of the few festivals worldwide that is accessible to disabled filmgoers of all kinds.  
CG:

I got an email from the director, hey we love your film it got in, it got an award, but we had to stop during the screening a few times because our Blind jurors felt left out by a joke in the film. It wasn’t described well enough. She said I’m sorry I don’t mean to be negative but are you at all available to re-record.

TR:

I suppose it’s viewing this process as art that produces Cheryl’s response.

CG:

Negative, this is the biggest gift in the world are you kidding me let’s go.

I rewrote several parts but I specifically rewrote the part that people felt left out by. My Blind Audio description teacher helped point out some spots where she still felt a little bit excluded or maybe even confused about what was happening. It’s just more descriptive. That’s how art should be. As you learn and develop your skills it gets more wonderful.

Audio: Basic Able

TR:

Wonderful, like the time she described an improvised dance segment for a video podcast. It featured Antoine Hunter

CG:

He is a really phenomenal person. He’s a dancer, choreographer and healing artist. He teaches dance. He’s marvelous. He’s Deaf and he’s the Artistic Director I think, of the Real Urban Jazz dance Company.

I’ve never done dance before. It was so fun and it was so exciting to try and get the dance moves and match them. And because he’s Deaf he incorporates some sign into the way he dances.

I’m not fluent at all, but I’m familiar with Sign language and I’m familiar with the role that facial expression plays in the grammar and expression of Sign language. So I was able to make references to his hand gestures as being Sign and references to his facial expressions.

I think I said his facial expressions mirror the expansiveness of his bodies motion.

Audio: from podcast if available…

TR:

Hopefully, by now, you too should at least start to see the art. It’s the familiarity with the culture that enables Cheryl to recognize such detail.

CG:

Everything that I do has something about disability or Deaf culture in it. I engage with it seven days a week. Whether I’m making something or reading or watching something. I try to immerse myself in the cultural aspects of Deafness and Disability. That brings a more lush Audio Description

TR:

That level of detail and equity goes as far as seeking input from those being described.

CG:

I sent Antoine the script because it wasn’t going to be in the captions for him to read. He really liked it and he corrected one part that he didn’t like. It didn’t feel fair to him and he gave me words that not only feel more fair to him, but were more beautiful than the words I had chosen. It was so collaborative and so beautiful.

When I’m describing what somebody’s body looks like or how it moves I send them my script. I ask them what they think about how I wrote it. or I tell them I’m going to audio describe this please tell me how you want time to describe what you look like. Sometimes people will send me a description that’s actually not very visual.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Like what?

CG:

Like when I say how do you want me to describe how you’re moving? And the response is a man with Cerebral Palsy. That doesn’t give me a sense of how you move, but I asked and you answered. And I respect your answer. But it is tricky because the point of audio description is to give people a flavor of the visuals and man with Cerebral Palsy that’s not very visual is it?

[TR in conversation with CG:]
No, not at all.

CG:

If it’s your content and I’m describing you and that’s all you give me ok, that’s what I’ll use.

When it’s my content I’ll use their words as the starting point and expand to make it more descriptive and more visual oriented.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

Give me an idea of the types of things that you would include in a description of someone.

CG:

I try to always describe something that relates to race or ethnicity. If I know how the person identifies then I can use those terms. If I don’t then I might be more descriptive. for instance, I describe myself as a white woman, which is kind of descriptive but not really because my skin tone is darker than any of my white friends. I’m the darkest person I know in my circle of white friends so it’s not super descriptive to say that I’m white. But it wouldn’t be useful to say I’m a brown woman because I’m white. I just have kind of light brown skin. If I don’t know their ethnicity I might say someone with a dark skin tone, someone with a fair skin tone. Sometimes I’ll defer to hair. A woman with bright red hair.. She’s probably white if she has bright red hair. now not necessarily of course.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

(Laughs…) Now-a-days!

CG:
There are different reasons why someone would have red hair regardless of their ethnicity.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

What would make you choose their hair and what would make you include that in the description. I wonder why would they say that? Why did they now tell me that this person is a Black person or whatever. And I’m like hmm, let me see if this is going to be really necessary to the story line.
CG:

Yeh!
[TR in conversation with CG:]

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t. And it leaves me wondering why they made that choice and why they didn’t describe the white person.

CG:

Ok, get ready!

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Yeh, ok! (Laughs.)

CG:

Oh my! I cannot tell you how with you I am. I’m going to describe something if it feels relevant to the story or for political reasons.

Just end my career now if I ever put something out there where I say the black person and the person meaning white. I don’t know if I would ever recover from my remorse.

I don’t do, a wheel chair user and a person. Huh! No! If there’s a wheelchair user and there’s someone else standing. One person sitting in a wheel chair and one person standing. I make political choices If one person’s race or ethnicity or nationality becomes relevant to the story, I am going to make a point to name everybody’s so that I’m not singling one person out as the other or the weirdo or the outsider.

There is no way that someone is ethnic and some other person is not ethnic. I just cannot even wrap my head around … I don’t even know what ethnic food means, what on earth, what? (Said with a lot of annoyance!)

What food doesn’t come from a culture? What? (Said exasperatingly)

No, I will name them all or I will name nobody. And it really depends on the content creator, what they’re going for, how much time there is and yes is it relevant. Is it going to make a difference to the story for me to know something about the ethnicities of the people involved and is there time to get that in there. And if I can’t describe them all then I can’t describe any. or sometimes I will tell somebody, you need to stretch out that first scene because I have got to get that description in there. I have to!

TR:

Movies, television are often a reflection of society. It’s not surprising that the politics of the world impacts the way we think about and create access to content.

There are many who believe the best approach is to ignore race or ethnicity all together. As Cheryl points out, the results don’t lead to equality.

CG:

I think when Audio Describers are shy, oh I don’t’ want to say those words, as an Audio Describer your comfort and discomfort are not supposed to be part of this. You’re censoring it for the viewers.

You know I was really moved by your episodes around Black panther. There’s the access piece, but also one of the ways we white wash is to pretend like white people are neutral and just people. And so whatever we think is important is what’s important. And yeh, they had some cool costumes in Black panther, but ok, cool costumes whatever. That’s not fair. It’s so beyond not fair, it really is a show of white supremacy.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Mm Hmm! (In agreement)

CG:

To neutralize overt displays of culture that are not white, you erase them, you ignore them. That is white supremacy. And it’s not ok.

If the film maker did not erase culture then the Audio Describer or Captioner really should not erase culture as well.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Absolutely!

CG:

Some people feel like it’s just the detail, no. We’re talking about humanity and we’re talking about dehumanizing people. Willfully dehumanizing people when we leave stuff out

TR:

Cheryl says the same occurs in captions.

Not only is she creating films, accessible content through subtitles, captions and audio description, Cheryl produces the podcast Pigeonhole.

As described on Apple Podcast:

Pigeonhole challenges the stereotypes that disabled people are all white, straight, middle class people in search of a cure for their bodies and minds
the way mainstream media would make it seem. Made by from disability community, and centering disabled people as audience, Pigeonhole interrogates the
assumptions and biases we hold about disability and embraces all parts of people’s identities. We uplift disability culture, celebrate identity, and break
out of the narrow pigeonholes people attempt to stuff us in.

She’s a fellow recipient of the New Voice Scholarship warded by Association of Independence in Radio.

Receiving that scholarship puts us both in a very exclusive group of some of the best audio makers currently making radio and podcasts.

Audio: Microphone and other equipment collapsing during my conversation with Cheryl.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

We are having operating difficulties, please stand by

TR:

Well, maybe not all of us!

You can find Cheryl online at WhoAmIToStopIt.com She tweets under that same name, which again is her latest production.

Her films are available through New Day Film.com.

Checkout Cheryl’s podcast Pigeonhole – that’s P I G E O N H O L E. I especially like the episode titled “A nap and a bird.” It’s a short well told story that says a lot.

# Close

Audio: “As we proceed”

We’re continuing to advance our ongoing conversation around Audio Description and content access in general.

Considering captions & AD as art? Why shouldn’t it be. It’s the written word that has some pretty strict requirements including the time constraints and a need to quickly convey a message. We’re talking about talented writers and voice actors/narrators.

Let’s spread this way of thinking about accessible content.

Let’s push for content creators like Cheryl whether independent or in the major studios to see it as a tool to improve their storytelling. Then maybe we’ll see it become a part of the pre-production and be more of a reflection of the film’s conceived vision.

Looking at content access through a social justice lens feels like it leads closer to inclusion.

A big shout out to Cheryl Green! I enjoy speaking with her and appreciate her perspective. I guess I’ll go ahead and put this right here… I hope you will hear more from her right here on the podcast in the future.

You know, I still hope to hear more from you the listener. I’m not looking for you to write me long messages about how much you love the show or how funny you think I am or how much you like the production, or how much you think this podcast should be the top podcast on the charts or how it makes your day when a new episode publishes… no who would want to hear any of that!

I just want to know if it made you smile, gave you an idea or maybe encouraged you to do something.

I send myself fake messages about all the other stuff so I have that covered!

Seriously, holla back!

We have the comments section on the blog, ReidMyMind.com.
The email; ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com
The Reid My Mind Radio Feedback Line where you can leave a voice mail: 1 570-798-7343

I would really love voice messages that I can share on the podcast. If you don’t want to call, you can grab your smart phone and record a voice memo and email the finished recording to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I’d love to hear and share the voices of those who are listening. If you want to send a message but don’t want it shared just say so and it’s all good.

So make sure you Subscribe!
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Audio: Bring the audio to a screech!

## TR:

if you mainly listen to the podcast via Sound Cloud I’m hoping you will continue to listen but I am moving away from that platform. I’ve been tolerating their interface in order to avoid the move to another service.

I may decide to keep one or two episodes available, but the best method for staying caught up is to subscribe via Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, Tune In Radio and wherever you get podcasts.

You can always visit www.ReidMyMind.com

So there’s no confusion, that’s R to the E I D like my last name!

I appreciate you listening and if you liked what you heard please rate and even review the show via Apple Podcast. And please, tell a friend to listen. Spread the love, man!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace

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