Reid My Mind

TR:
Greetings Family! Welcome back to the second episode of the first season of 2022, Doing Your Thing with Disability.

— Music begins – A drum solo that loops, stops DJ scratch into a cymbal crash.

My name is Thomas Reid, host and producer of Reid My Mind Radio, the podcast bringing you compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability.

I’m excited to bring you today’s episode so I’m not going to say much in this introduction.
However, I know you’re going to dig what we’re about to get into so I’d like to encourage you right now to just go ahead and follow or subscribe to the podcast.
Seriously, what are you waiting for! Whatever app you’re using to listen right now, there’s something that says, follow or perhaps subscribe.
Hit that to make sure you don’t miss an episode.

I’ll take it from there!
— Reid My Mind Theme Music

Adriana:
Hi, I’m Adriana Mallozzi, founder and CEO of Puffin Innovations, we are creating hands free access to consumer electronics for individuals with limited mobility in their upper extremities. My pronouns are she and her. I am a Caucasian woman with a round face, ear length dark hair, and wearing a black T shirt with the words not impossible written across the chest in white and I am in a power wheelchair

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Why did you wear that shirt today?

Adriana:
It really represents I think my attitude with regards to what I want to do in life.

I’ve never been the type of person to take no for an answer. I’m realistic. I’m not a surgeon because I can’t use my hands.

It just really resonates with me and my attitude. And what it means to be a proud, disabled person showing that nothing can really stop you from doing whatever it is you want to do.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Can you just summarize your experience with disability?

Adriana:
Sure. During the birthing process, I stopped breathing. So the lack of oxygen caused brain damage, hence, I have cerebral palsy. I’m a spastic quad and I use a power wheelchair.

CP varies so much. It manifests in so many different ways that you would never know from one person to another, that they have the same diagnosis.

TR:

The diagnosis is what it is, but the person is who they were in their past, who they are in the moment and who they become in the future.
In each of those periods of time, there are things that impact a persons way of thinking.
Two things stand out about Adriana’s past that influence her belief of what is possible.

Adriana:

I am a child of immigrants. So I grew up going to Italy, to visit family, I still have first cousins there. Growing up, we would go spend the summers to see my grandparents. So travel was a big part of my life.

TR:

Adriana’s mom worked as a real estate agent and travel agent.

Adriana:

Just because it gave her the flexibility, she needed having a young family, especially for me as a child with a disability. She’d always be running around, having to take me to PT or OT or whatever.

She would win a trip for to, and then she would add my sister and I and we get to travel.

We went on cruises, and we got to go to Bermuda.

— Sound of an airplane taking off.
— Music begins – melodic horns slowly blow as a woman vocalist sings “higher” leading into a kick dram and a mid-tempo hip hop beat.

So I think it was just very inherent, it was in our blood. Traveling is just something that we love. My sister has made it into a job where she gets to travel around the world and experience a different culture

TR:

That’s her little sister, Mikaela. Professional dancer and four time EMMY Award winning host of her own travel show, Bare feet with Mickela Mallozzi.

I guess traveling without shoes is dangerous. (I don’t think that’s what’s she’s doing.)

Traveling as a power wheel chair user comes with some specific challenges.

Adriana:

When I travel, especially overseas, I don’t bring my power chair, just because it’s not as accessible in other countries. And it’s just easier to have a manual chair, when most of the countries are not wheelchair accessible, especially my own family’s home, my grandparents, its hundreds of years old, it belonged to my great, great grandparents and you know, it’s just not accessible. So I would travel with my manual chair, and when I’m in my chair, I literally can’t do anything myself.

TR:

Contrast this with her first experience taking her power chair overseas.

Adriana:

Also, the first time I flew overseas without a family member, I brought my PCA and I had to figure out all the logistics on my own.

That was the first time that I had ever done that in my life and it was amazing.

They really put a lot of thought into design with accessibility in mind.

You know how here, the elevator buttons are all literally at the door. If you use a wheelchair, you really can’t reach those buttons by the door because your foot rests are in the way and you can’t get close enough. Well, in Germany, all the buttons are on the side, on the wall. So you can easily reach them.
They also have not only a button to call the elevator at the door itself, but they also have free standing posts. So you can angle your chair in any direction and hit it however you can hit it. They did the same thing with automatic door openers, as well. And so I was so independent in there that I literally dreamt about being back there when I got back home.

TR:

Aware of the problems that power chair travelers experience, Adriana had a plan.

Adriana:

We bring a big roll of that wrap. How they wrap pallets? you know that plastic.

As soon as I get out of my chair, we put anything that are external to the seat of my chair, we put it in the seat of my chair, and then literally wrap my chair.

And so that has worked.

TR:

On the way to Germany at least.

On the return trip, as soon as they finished wrapping the chair,
Adriana and her PCA were told to unwrap because the chair needed to be tested.

It was taken but no one would speak with Adriana or her PCA.
Nervous about missing their flight and subsequent connection, they finally learned of the problem.

Adriana:

They’re like, Yeah, your chair tested positive for explosive.

We had to wait for the police to come. And then they were like, You need to take the battery. I was like, you can’t take the battery out, you don’t take the battery out.

They literally tried to tear out the battery. Like Luckily, they couldn’t figure out how to open anything. But they had snapped pieces. So there were broken pieces in the seat of my chair because it was like they were clawing to get to the internal electronics of my chair. I think it would have been worse if it wasn’t wrapped.

TR:

The dream of independence for people with disabilities often includes some nightmares.

Adriana:

They put my chair on the lift from the gait of the plane to load it down below.

and a person who was loading bags, he was literally throwing in like chucking things on top of my chair. And I was having a heart attack. I could see it through the window and I’m like, oh my god. We definitely took pictures and videos and my chair was a little broke like it wasn’t working properly and you know these chairs are 500 pounds so it’s not like it’s easy to push it.

TR:
joy and pain of traveling as a disabled person!

— Music Ends

The second influential component effecting Adriana’s belief of what is possible? Early exposure to technology.

Technology>
Adriana:

I began, PT and OT, or physical therapy and occupational therapy for those that don’t know what PT and OT stands for. at a really young age, I was diagnosed shortly after I turned a year old around 12 months or so. And soon after, we were sent to Easter Seals.

It was my OT who introduced me to a piece of technology that allowed me to use the computer, for the first time to do anything for the first time independently.

This was back in about83 or 84. I was about maybe seven, eight years old.

All I did was type, I type my name, and maybe some numbers. But just being able to do that, and be able to do something by myself for the very first time ever in my life.
It really hit me at that moment. I was like, wow, technology is going to be the key to my independence. Technology will be the way I will be able to do everything I ever wanted to be able to do.

TR:

And then there’s the DIY, Do it yourself attitude.
Adriana:

my father was in construction, he was a carpenter. I would always see him build. I think I got that problem solving. sort of mentality. Most people with disabilities, we have to adapt on the fly all the time. We have to figure out ways of doing things that the average person does not. And we always have to be at least two to three steps ahead. There has to be a Plan B, C, D, in case, X Y and Z goes wrong.

TR:

And when they go wrong, understanding the need to advocate for yourself.

Adriana:

My parents really had to struggle financially to get me what I needed, like the basic things that insurance considered luxuries like a bathing chair.

I can’t sit up by myself. So until I got that chair, I had to lay at the bottom of the tub. And I would be really creative and like, Yeah, I’m cool. toys like, I left pillows or floaties, or whatever, just to make me comfortable. So I wasn’t banging against the sides of the tub or hurting myself on the tub?

Of course, insurance? To be able to bathe safely and comfortably was a luxury.

My power chair I got when I was about eight years old. Me being able to be independent and move on my own was a luxury, according to the insurance company. So luckily, I think part of it was covered.

They just had to find ways to provide to get what I needed. And I’m really grateful that I had parents that did that.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Is that still, the situation with insurance with they treat those things like, luxury?

Adriana:
there are places still in the United States where people have to still fight for it. And yes, they still consider a luxury. But I’m lucky to be in the state of Massachusetts, and have the benefits and have not had to struggle as much as an adult in a different state to get the equipment that I need, but there are people in this country that that still have to fight, but still get subpar equipment, simply because insurance won’t cover the actual equipment that would be more suitable for that person.

I just don’t understand how people can be okay with that. I don’t understand how people that work in the insurance companies can have policies that allow that to happen. These are human beings and to treat human beings in that way, I just don’t understand.

— Music begins, a funky electronic dance track with lots of digital processing sounds and a funky groove.

TR:

The more you know how much it benefit’s a person, the more difficult it is to accept that it happens.

Adriana:

when I was older, let’s say my mid 20s was the first time that I had technology that I was able to turn on the lights to change channel on the TV, to open my door to my apartment. That was huge.

For the average person, it just sounds so basic. And these things excited me and I was so lucky. And I was in my mid-20s. And that was the first time I was able to do any of that by myself.

TR:

It doesn’t sound basic to me.
Adriana and I met as a result of inaccessibility.
It was December 2020 and I was trying to make sense of the social audio app Club House.
I accidentally hit a button that started up a room.
Honestly I freaked out, I had no idea who was going to join.
While searching how to quickly close the room someone popped in.
Shout out to Daniel from Singapore. We got to talking and then Adriana came into the room.

Adriana:
I joined clubhouse December of 2020, when everyone was locked down.

Initially, I was just checking out all the tech rooms and getting a feel for what was on there.
TR:

December 2020 was still considered early in Club House time.
There were a fair number of people using the app even though officially it was in Beta.
There was a lot of everything, good conversations to scammers, and definitely inaccessibility.

While in a room with some discussion taking place about disability Adriana didn’t like what she was hearing.

Adriana:

Special needs, and differently abled and Handi capable and all those god awful euphemisms instead of the actual word disability. And we’re like, Okay, this has to stop. Let’s do a room about disability and about language. And that’s how it started.

TR:

That room led to the creation of a club.

Adriana:
I was trying to come up with something clever, for a club name.

I read, 15% of the world’s population has a disability. And I was like, Oh, my God, we’re going to call it the 15. Then it sounds really exclusive. And cool, it’s Wow. And people will be like, Oh, what is this 15%, right, like, I want to be part of the 15.

TR:

There were some really great conversations throughout the rooms, from those hosted by the club to those from other members.

We as a club along with some cool allies (shout out to Glenn with two n’s) played a big role in advocating for improved access to that app,
making certain to voice concerns from the perspective of all users with disabilities.
Literally, all we wanted was to be included in the conversation.

Music ends.
TR:

Hey y’all, I’m cutting into the flow of the episode.
It’s time to announce the winner of the
February Socially ReidSponsible Instagram Giveaway.

Last time,
I told y’all about Annie.
A friend of the family who wanted to come on board and
help manage the Reid My Mind Radio Facebook and Instagram pages.
Last time Annie was under the weather…
while I knew the sun would come out…
I was hoping to get her on the podcast and ask…
Annie are you ok? Are you ok. Are you ok Annie!

Ok, I’ll stop before Annie decides to get her gun…

The winner of the February Reid My Mind Radio Instagram giveaway is…

Congratulations @Malic_acid,
Enjoy your very own Reid My Mind Radio
coffee or tea mug.

Now back to the episode…

Music ends with a bouncing base…

TR in Conversation with Adriana :

What was your first experience with having to advocate for yourself?

Adriana:
I liked pushing boundaries. But I was also very shy. Growing up, my teachers didn’t even know I could speak because I was so shy.

I started opening up more when I was in middle school and high school.

It was freshman English, and I had to write a paper. I decided to write about how, as someone with a disability, who took all honors classes, I had a one to one aid to help me turn pages or write notes for me who didn’t understand English.

TR:

Adriana literally would have to spell out things she wanted the assistant to write.
Meanwhile, the teacher is moving on with the rest of the class.
Could you imagine how frustrating that would be for a 14 year old?

She decided to write about it.

Adriana:

I knew once the essay was handed in, and I would go down the halls, I knew all the teachers knew, I knew the administrators. did and they were all talking about and I think that was my first like, official. My self-advocating for myself.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
What lessons did you take away from that?

Adriana:
It felt good, actually, to cause a ruckus.

It was really obvious that they underestimated me. Even though I was in honors courses. I think it was really clear that because I was shy, because I never really spoke loudly or did anything like that all of a sudden, I wrote this paper. They had an insight to what was really going on inside my mind and how I was really feeling about the situation.

TR:

After being assigned a new aide, she knew her words could make a difference.

In her senior year in high school, Adriana wanted to work on the year book.
She knew she could, everything was computerized at this point.
But she was told she couldn’t.

Adriana:

Because it’s on the third floor and the elevator doesn’t go there. After four years of being in high school, I had no idea that there was even another floor that I had no access to.

Someone that I knew that was on the school paper, decided to interview me about it. A year or so later, they fix that.

TR:
Years later, Adriana found herself working as the editor of a newsletter at the Massachusetts rehabilitation commission.

Adriana:
it was called the consumers voice. Up until when I took it over, it was mostly just a regurgitation of what was on the DOJ website and not really the voice of the people.

I said, we’re changing that.

Music begins –
They allowed me to assemble a group of individuals who were involved or who were consumers of Voc Rehab. And people were also allowed to submit their own stories if they wanted to share an experience, both negative or positive.

TR:
At least that was what she thought.
It wasn’t until one consumer sent in a not so nice letter about their experience that tested the policy.
It landed her on a call with the Executive Office of Health and Human Services defending the consumer.

Adriana:

I said, Excuse me, but this is called the consumers voice. It is a factual story. No one is being called out by name in this story.

We went back and forth a little bit, and it got published.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Why was the idea of having the voice of the consumer being heard? Why was that so important to you?

Adriana:
It would be an injustice, if it was called the consumers voice and not having no voice of those people in that publication. It was wrong. It was so wrong on so many levels when you didn’t actually broadcast those voices and those stories and so it was really important to me to be true to what the name stood for.

TR:

In her job at a Day Rehab Center in charge of coordinating wheel chair evaluations, She found herself often advocating on behalf of others.
Sometimes that just means informing people of the process and their rights.

Adriana:
So most people don’t know this. But when you’re wheelchair shopping, it is your right, to test drive multiple chairs, it’s just like buying a car.
You spend most of your time in this thing. And it needs to be right for you.

TR:

Advocating on behalf of another person can be tricky.
Especially when you sometimes share medical professionals.
Like the time an OT didn’t provide a consumer with the chance to test multiple chairs.

Adriana:

So I knew this person, both professionally as well as someone who had helped me in the past to get equipment. And so I called her and said, hey, you know, I really think that he should buy this other kind of chair. I think he would benefit from it.

And she says,

— Music ends.

Well, you know, I didn’t think He needed to try anything, because he has a cognitive disability. And I was thinking at that moment, God, you are so lucky that his mother did not just hear you say that. And you’re also so lucky that I could not reach through this phone and rattle you.

TR:

I’m a big fan of this part of Adriana’s personality!
But fortunately for all involved, she has a really good head on her shoulders.

Adriana:

We spoke for a while and convinced her that we should have another wheel chair eval. We did it at the clinic not on site.

TR:

Mind you, this wasn’t in an official capacity. She took off to attend the eval in order to make sure this person received the appropriate service.

Adriana:

Prior to using this chair, he would crash into things all the time.

In this chair, he drove like a pro. It was also a standing chair. So he was able to stand and read, his mom was in tears. And it was just the most amazing and I was so happy that he was able to get what he actually needed and what best suited him. And then the OT came over after and apologized to me afterwards.

— A bit of silence…

“I’ve always been that type of person where I want to try to figure out how to make things better. How to make things easier for other people, not just myself.” – Adriana

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Let’s go to another form of your advocacy. It’s what I think is sort of your natural interest in technology, combined with your empathy for others. I see all of that combined to make the beginning of Puffin innovations.

Adriana:

I’ve always been the type of person to have ideas and want to improve upon existing tech. And right after I graduated college I was sending out two different kinds of resumes. One was the typical resume that you would send to a company. And then I had a resume called assistive tech resume. And I would list all the things that I was experienced in using and New England. And I would apply to all these companies that I had used their equipment and I looked up to and it was a dream of mine, to work for a company.

TR:

Adriana had no entrepreneurial ambitions.
She just wanted to work for an Assistive Technology company that was serving people with disabilities.
That was until she receive word about an event.
]

Adriana:

MIT was looking for people living with disabilities, who had an idea, a solution to a problem that they themselves are experiencing. I was like, oh my god, this is like a dream come true. I get to go to a hackathon. At that point, I had never been.

I was just on cloud nine because I was like, oh my god, I have this opportunity to go to MIT, hang out with all these geeky people and geek out together and just be around all day. So I submitted my solution, it didn’t have a name, but it was the Puffin.

TR:

She along with about 15 other applicants were selected to participate in the hackathon.

Prior to the event, a dinner was held to give the co designers, that is the MIT coders and those with the ideas a chance to meet and connect with one another.

Adriana:

It’s kind of like speed dating.

The students will go around and meet each of the designers, and find more out about what it is that you want to do. This group of students came to me and they never left.

Literally, they had laptops, we were looking at parts, like we were already figuring out what we needed to make this happen.

TR:

Each team had an opportunity to request parts and technology prior to the hackathon.

Adriana:

Luckily, there was this person who he is now a puffin advisor, he had this big chest of parts. And if it weren’t for him, we wouldn’t have been able to build it at all. because we didn’t get any of the parts that we had ordered.

The students were amazing, because they really listened to what I had to say. I think that’s what made our team so successful. We were willing, and able to take each other things, and put that together, and put it in a way that works. We never dismissed anyone’s idea or anything.

We ended up making a working version, I think that’s why we won first place.

We got so much press. We were even in the New York Times, which was amazing.

TR:

Already motivated to get this product out to others who wanted more independence,
Adriana began receiving emails from people around the world asking that very question.
She was thinking about patents and funding while the student’s went on to complete their course work.

Adriana:

A good friend of mine who happened to be writing her thesis. She was getting an MBA back in 2016. And she was writing a thesis on hackathons.

She said, you had a successful hackathon, so I want to interview you.
When we were done, she was like, Well, what’s stopping you from doing that from making it into a real thing.

That was really her and I taking the time to just look up applications, learn what was out there and then apply to all these funding opportunities.

TR:

The idea that began after receiving an email in 2015 started to look more like it was turning into a real business.

Adriana:

It just all fell into place in 2017. And we got a $200,000 grant from the VA. It was April Fool’s Day. I kept looking at the email. I’m just like, This is real, right?
It was just surreal, like the most surreal experience, because we’ve never done anything like this before.

It really worked out because then we got into mass challenge. And that really propelled us forward because we didn’t have space, we didn’t have anywhere to go to work on this.

TR:
The Mass Challenge is a business accelerator program in Massachusetts.
In addition to funding and networking opportunities, they provide access to production space and other resources including equipment and people.

Adriana:

The people that would walk in and out of there were just people in the high tech industry that you would never otherwise ever meet in your life. And it was just an amazing experience. We also, as a result, something that happens here in Boston called inbound, that HubSpot runs. And we happen to have been part of that challenge. We got free tickets to HubSpot, HubSpot, or to endow and that year Michelle Obama was the keynote speaker. We got to go and it was just the most amazing thing ever.

TR:

Just when things are going really well, (Pandemic! )Covid 19.
Unlike other tech companies that were able to thrive during the pandemic, Puffin is a little different.

Adriana:
It’s a physical product.

* testing this here *
Our device is actually a mouth operated wireless input device. It’s just a fancy way of saying it acts as a mouse. So for people like myself, who can’t use their hands, they could pair our device with any Bluetooth enabled devices, so like your computer, or your cell phone, or your tablet, and then have full access to that device.

I know several people who don’t even have mobile devices, especially back when I started. That’s because they physically can’t interact with the touchscreen. That is why this was so important.

We also have an app that goes with the product, but it interacts with the device.

It’s really a hard thing to get parts that are not from overseas. And that’s where a lot of our components are coming from. We were down for a good supply chain. But now we’re ramping back up again.

TR:

Helping to build up some of that momentum is winning the ServiceNow digital workforce challenge along with acceptance into the Verizon for good Accelerator program.
Adriana:

Which is super exciting, because you get to work with these tech experts, from Verizon.

A big part of our device is the portability, the connectivity of it, wireless. And so having this opportunity to work with a communication giant, like Verizon, and leader in wireless technology, which then we will be able to incorporate in our device is going to be pretty amazing and really bring it to the next level.

TR:

Adriana says Similar products on the market haven’t seem much in the way of innovation because there’s little competition.

Adriana:

they have no reason to actually change it. So we’re changing it!

TR:

By incorporating artificial intelligence or machine learning.

Adriana:

I wanted this device to recognize, hey, this person is having a little more difficulty in doing this or that, or is struggling with moving in certain ways. So let me adjust the sensitivity, or let me adjust the pressure that is needed to go in this direction, but not in this direction.

TR:

By the end of the program with Verizon,
Adriana would like Puffin to have a product ready for sale in a beta phase in order to generate user feedback.

By the way, the name Puffin is like a shout out to the bird of the same name.
The devices mouth piece resembled the bird’s beak.
That beak you can say, is a form of assistive technology.
It enables them to carry food to their baby back at the nest.

Doing her thing with disability, is what separates Puffin from other solutions.
Adriana not only understands the value for herself, but seems just as excited for what that access brings to others.

Adriana:

I don’t know what I do Without accessing my cell phone. I can control everything with my phone, now. I can control the TV, I can control the lights with my phone, I can do my banking, I can do my shopping, I can read a book, right? I can, whatever, make phone calls, etc. You can literally do everything with a mobile device. So for people with disabilities, if you have access to your mobile device, you literally have access to the world. And that’s what’s really important to us. It’s giving people that opportunity to have access to things that they otherwise would not have access to.

TR in Conversation with Adriana:
Ok, How do I say this? Because of all the things that you do, your willingness to share, and help others the way you do your thing with disability. You Adriana Mallozzi are an official member of the Reid my Mind Radio family welcome to the family, Adriana.

Adriana:
Thank you! I’m honored to be a member.
TR in Conversation with Adriana:

So how can people learn more about the Puffin, about you? All of that.

Adriana:
So you can find more about Puffin at Puffininno.com So that’s Puffin like the bird and inno.com. Or @Puffininno on all social media platform. That is our handle. If you are on Club House come and join the 15% Club.

For me it’s just AdrianaMallozzi is my handle on on all social media platforms.

TR:
I started to give credit to the lack of access within the early version of the Club House app for my chance to meet and get to know Adriana.

It’s like giving credit to inaccessibility, poor treatment and service for the strong advocacy,
problem solving or management skills you’ll find among people with disabilities.

No! I’m not crediting the negative.

The energy we each give off works to bring people in and out of our lives.

Adriana and I were both on the Club House app, simultaneously trying to figure some of the same things out.
In fact, some of the same access issues that impact her were impacting me as a Voice Over user.
It wasn’t disability specific.
Perhaps that’s something I needed to hear.
I may have been seeking that without even knowing.

Maybe you listening here today needed to hear the words on Adriana’s shirt; “Not Impossible”. That’s really an energy that I personally want for anyone listening, the energy I want for myself.

Yes, we can dream big.
I just want to hear more from those achieving without having to compromise any part of themselves.

I’m tired of conversations about overcoming CP, blindness or disability in general.
I’m here when you want to talk about society overcoming it’s need to put up barriers,
it’s inaccessible websites and technology or
unwillingness to hire, give opportunities to or in any way include the disabled community.

I’m here for conversation with people like Adriana who want to talk about pursuing goals, making dope enabling technology.

I’m here when you want to talk about Doing Your Thing With Disability!

And you know where to find me right?
That’s wherever you get podcasts. If you’re on Facebook and Instagram, that’s @ReidMyMindRadio on Twitter @tsreid.
Or slide on over to ReidMyMind.com and you can find transcripts for our episodes.
Just make sure you remember, that’s R to the E I D!

— Sample (“D!”) And that’s me in the place too be! Slick Rick

Adriana:

Like his last name!

Audio: Reid My Mind Outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:

What’s up RMMRadio Family…

If you’ve been here before, welcome back! If you’re a new jack, come on in…
take your shoes off if you like, it’s
not mandatory in my house, but I do want you to be comfortable.

Let’s get it! All aboard!
All Aboard!

[Audio: Ship Horn]
[Reid My Mind Theme]

TR:
In this second of our three part series, we’ll meet another winner of the Holman Prize.

The prize is named in honor of James Holman.
Known as the Blind Traveler, Holman completed a series of solo journeys taking him to all inhabited continents.

Sponsored by the San Francisco Lighthouse $25,000 is given to each of the winners who are all legally blind and in their own way exhibit the adventurous spirit and attitude of James Holman

Ahmet Ustunel Our featured Holman Prize winner today like James Holman, is quite comfortable on the water.

I spoke to him via Facebook Audio while he was at home in San Francisco.

Ahmet:
I am originally from Turkey. I have been in the US for about 11 years now.
In my free time I like water sports. I like swimming, kayaking, fishing, sailing.

I’m totally blind since the age of two and a half or three due to Retinoblastoma.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet:]

I’m also a Retinoblastoma survivor Sir.

Ahmet:
Man, yeh, wow!

TR:

Retinoblastoma, is a rare childhood eye cancer that usually affects children before the age of years old.
By rare we’re talking about seven thousand children a year.

In the US and other developed nations the survivor rate is
around 90 percent with significant children losing sight.
In under developed nations, the rates are reversed and children’s lives are lost.

One common sign possibly indicating Retinoblastoma is a
white reflection in a child’s eye resembling that of a cat’s eye reflecting light.

Early diagnosis and treatment are key to saving both lives and sight.

By the time Ahmet’s cancer was detected, doctors in Turkey
were out of options to help.

Ahmet:

One of my relatives was in Germany working at a children’s hospital as a janitor so my Gran Ma took me there and they treated me there with radiation an enucleation.

TR:

Enucleation or the surgical removal of Both his eyes, Ahmet returned home to Turkey now as a blind child.

Ahmet:
I was lucky in terms of having really supportive people in my family. I grew up in a really big family. Everybody had a different approach in terms of blindness.

I was the only blind person in the family and even in the town I guess. I didn’t know any other blind person.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]

Wow! How big of a town are you talking about?

Ahmet:
Maybe like ten fifteen thousand people.
Then I moved to Istanbul which is like fifteen sixteen million people and that actually changed my life.

TR:

Ahmet was aware of the contrasting dynamics in his family as it pertained to his blindness. Some were over protective while others wanted to help him do the things other little boys were doing.

Ahmet:
Ride a bike, tie hooks on a fishing line… avoid Sting Rays when you are swimming.

TR:

These early lessons in the ability to make something accessible played a role in his education and future.

After not being accepted in a mainstream school , Ahmet watched as his peers went to school at around 6 years old.

Moving to Istanbul his parents tried to enroll him in the only school for blind children. With a waiting list Ahmet wouldn’t begin until he was 8 years old.

Attending school during the week and returning home on weekends, Ahmet credits this school with teaching him valuable life skills.
After 5th grade he would attend a mainstream school.

Ahmet:
They send you back to mainstream school with no support. So you go back to school with no books and no teachers for the blind.

I was the first blind student in the school. I had to prove myself as a blind person.

TR:

At an early age, Ahmet took his education and future into his own hands.

Ahmet:
I was walking around with my Walkman and asking everybody you know, can you read me a page or two.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]

So you were basically learning to advocate for yourself at that young age?

Ahmet:

Oh yeah I mean absolutely I mean there was nobody to advocate for me.
I could choose to sit around and do nothing you know get a C and pass, but if I really do well then people and teachers and you know the principal will understand that I can do stuff and they will let me stay. And if I cannot do it
I will just withdrawal myself.

TR:
Ahmet when on to not only prove himself to the administration but gain the confidence in his own abilities.

He studied Psychology in college where he met his wife, a US exchange student.

But his early life exposed him to more than academics

Ahmet:

When I was in high school my school campus was right on the water, you can literally jump into the water from the campus.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]

So is that where the kayaking came in, from high school.

Ahmet:
No actually I did a lot of you know water related activities since my childhood as I grew up by Black Sea.

When I was in college I use to go rowing and stuff, but I haven’t started kayaking until I came here.

TR:
A Kayak is a very narrow boat like vessel. You steer and move the kayak with a paddle that has a blade on each end. They average about 25 to 35 inches wide and 12 to 19 feet in length.

Ahmet:

So let’s say you have a kayak nineteen foot long and twenty eight inch wide. You can go really fast but it will be a little tippy.

If it is twelve feet long and thirty five inches wide it will be really stable but you will go half as fast as the nineteen foot one.

It’s made of either corrugated plastic or fiber glass, there are some inflatable models.
So you sit in it. And you’re like really close to the water if you put
your hand your right there the water is right there. So you’re like maybe four inches above the water.

And you have a spray skirt which covers the kayak. So if you have a splash water doesn’t get in and if you flip over you are upside down but know water gets in.
So you have to pull the skirt off the kayak and get out of the kayak and flip it over and get back in. Or you can do the special row it’s called Eskimo row. Without pulling the skirt off you can flip the kayak back and keep paddling.

If you go paddling in cold water like San Francisco the water temperature goes below fifty degrees most of the time. So you don’t want to stay in that water more than 15 minutes. If you stay more than 15 minutes they say Hypothermia kicks in.

TR:

So what does Kayaking have to do with the Holman Prize?

[Audio from Ahmet’s Ambition]

You’re listening to Ahmet’s Holman Prize Ambition video where he explains what he would do with the 25 grand.

[Ahmet in Video……]

I have been kayaking for about 10 years and I always wanted to be able to paddle independently. If I win the Holman Prize I will equip my kayak with high and low tech devices that will enable me to navigate the kayak by myself.

TR:
His mission…

[Ahmet in video…]
My dream is to be the first blind person to paddle from Europe to Asia by crossing the Bosporus Straits.

TR:
You heard him correctly…
[Audio: Tape rewinding ]

[Ahmet in video…]
My dream is to be the first blind person to paddle from Europe to Asia by crossing the Bosporus Straits.

TR:
Exactly what is required for someone to non visually, independently navigate their way through the Bosporus Straits from Europe to Asia?

Let’s start with the Kayak

Ahmet:
The kayak I’m going to use has kind of like fins going down from the bottom of the kayak kind of like penguin feet. And so you can pedal with your feet if you want or you can just do a classical paddle strokes.

I want to keep my hands free because I’m going to use whole bunch of different technologies.

TR:

No surprise here the technology includes an iPhone.
Ahmet:

I’m going to use a G.P.S. app – Ariadni G.P.S.

You can mark way points and it will let you know when you get close to that way point.

It also has a compass with degrees and tell you how far you are from your way points. And then I have a talking audible compass. Similar thing it will tell you degrees and you will set you course before you start and it will tell you if you are off course.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]
and you will South your course before you start and it will tell you the field

Is that a separate device or is that an app?

Ahmet:

It’s a separate devise.

I will also have parking sensors or security cameras sensors.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]
Probably the same thing they use when the cars park themselves… right?

Ahmet:

Right, right right! You know when you’re backing out so if you are about to hit something it beeps.

I have a depth whisperer.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]

D E P T H?.

Ahmet:
Yes.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]

Ok at first I thought you said death (laughs) I was like I don’t like that one!

Ahmet:
Laughs… I hope not!

It tell you if there’s shallow water underneath the kayak. If you are about to hit a rock or something .

TR:

Ahmet does have to prepare for all scenarios.

There’s redundancy in his technology so if one device fails another can provide the same or just as useful information.

Not all the technology is off the shelf. While searching for the best methods for non-visually navigating his way through the water Ahmet
came across Marty Stone.

Marty is an AT&T I.T. Project Manager by day and after hours…

Marty:

I’m just one of those people that like to tinker with things.

TR:
Marty created a device that simply put:

Marty:
It was developed to allow blind people to get a kayak and race it in a straight line and then turn around and come back.

TR:

Reading about this device, Ahmet reached out to Marty who decided to expand on the original design.

Marty:
Now we’re working on something that not only includes a compass but gyroscopes, accelerometers, and three different axis.

So you get a lot better information as far as movement and heading. We’ve got a G.P.S. module that’s it’s married to along with Bluetooth. That’s going to be interfaced with a device Ahmet will be able to wear on his life vest that will have some buttons that either he can program in some coordinates or commands to the system that he’ll just wear a headset and it’ll talk to him.
It’ll tell him that in order to get from where he is to his next way point he needs to row in a certain heading direction. And if he gets off course the system will tell him to paddle more on the left or paddle more on the right. And when he gets to a way point it will let him know and then he needs to change his heading to another course direction and then it’ll tell him that.

TR:
With both equipment and technology accounted for, Ahmet needs a few more things to be fully prepared to reach his goal; first a plan..

Ahmet:
Istanbul is a city on both continents. And we have this Bosporus Strait that separates the city into two different parts. And the area I’m going to cross is about three, three and a half miles which is not a big physical challenge, but it has heavy traffic.

A lot of ships like tankers, containers, fishing boats, tourist boats, sailing boats you know all kinds of stuff.

These tankers are the size of multiple football fields. A small kayak would probably go unnoticed anywhere near such a large vessel. And getting out of the way even if you could see it would be virtually impossible.

Ahmet:
I don’t want to take my chance with those guys!

TR:
The Bosporus being such a very narrow waterway. Authorities closely control the traffic flow in each direction.

Ahmet:

I will listen to the traffic channel. Usually they have half an hour or forty-five minute break in between and I will do my crossing during that time.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]
Do you have to schedule this?

Ahmet:

Well, I talked to the Coast Guard in Turkey and they .. first they didn’t believe that I could do it and I showed my videos to them and they said ok do whatever, we don’t take any responsibility.
(Ahmet and TR Laugh)

There will be a really fast boat watching me from the shore. If something goes wrong they will come and pick me up in like few minutes.

I’m not worried about the physical challenge – I can paddle you know three miles right now, no big deal. Being an expert using the technology if the key because I don’t want to have hesitation right in the middle of the shipping channel you know. That could be fatal.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]

Why are you doing this man?

Ahmet:

I always loved the water, it’s my happy place. It’s the place I feel good about myself I feel free. I grew up in a fishing boat when I was a kid. My father was a fisherman. In the fishing boats I used to ask my Dad, you know can I steer the boat. he said yeh, you know, it’s water there’s nothing around you, it’s like miles and miles of open water. I used to take the steering wheel and just feel like I was the captain of the boat. And I was imagining like how can do something like this as a blind person as a blind kid. I always wanted to do something water related but my option were very limited in college.
If I grew up in the US I would have probably do something like marine biology.

I love what I am doing right now, I’m teaching special ed. It was always somewhere in my mind to do something water related and being able to do it independently. I have been thinking about it for a long time and I thought you know, it’s doable if I have the financial support I can do it.

TR:
I believe him. And I will admit it, partially because he is a fellow Retinoblastoma Survivor but mainly because he began as a child.
Think about the early lessons from his family helping him adapt all the different activities so he could participate…

[Audio in flashback Ahmet]

Ride a bike… tie hooks on a fishing line… avoid Sting Rays when you are swimming.

TR:
Then becoming his own advocate at such a young age and showing such determination to get an education.

I imagine these are some of the qualities seen by the Holman Prize judges who awarded Ahmet the 25 thousand dollars to complete his objective.

Ahmet:

You know, I’m not saving the world or I’m not creating job opportunities or changing the lives of blind people , but I think I’m doing something cool!

At least it might encourage younger kids to try new things. I see that my students, high school kids, they get discouraged in terms of finding alternative ways… I think it will help.

Everything could be adapted. Everything could be more accessible, that’s what I want to show. I don’t want it to be a success story of one person … he’s blind but he did that, he did this. It doesn’t mean anything you know one person did this.

[TR in conversation with Ahmet]

It’s cool, you focus on kids, you’re a teacher so that’s what you do, but for anyone, you’re pursuing your passion and that’s something that we forget in life. To be able to say you’re going to go and pursue your passion and have a dream and do it that is a universal thing that goes way beyond any sort of disability. There are people who are perfectly sighted, physical abled who are not pursuing their passion and we can all learn from that.

Ahmet:
Absolutely, yeh, I mean you know, it’s not a blind or sighted thing. It’s just I think being adventurous and take a risk take a chance.

TR:

That’s probably the final ingredient necessary to complete this mission. courage!

As a young boy on the fishing boat with his Dad, Ahmet dreamt of becoming the captain. It takes real courage to go for your dreams. I’d say Ahmet’s been captain of his ship for quite some time.

If you’re interested in wishing Ahmet safe travels or want to follow his progress, go and Like his Facebook page; Ahmet The Blind captain.

I’m Thomas Reid for Gatewave Radio,
[Audio repurposed: Ahmet ” do whatever, we don’t take any responsibility! ]

audio for independent living!

[Audio: Grand Funk Railroad… The Captain]

TR:
Being affected by the lack of accessibility is frustrating. Especially when you know the so called limitation isn’t real.

It could be a website or program that doesn’t work with a screen reader. That was a choice. Probably not an intentional one, but if made aware of the problem and
a solution isn’t sought well, that’s intentional.

Companies usually fall back on the cost and yes there could be a cost to updating a product, but there’s no real cost to changing how we think and design for the future.

Inaccessibility is frustrating when you know that the reason for technology is to make our lives better.

That was one of the reasons I wanted to reach out to Marty Stone, the developer creating an enhanced device to help Ahmet stay the course.

Marty:
You can never accuse me of being an optimistic person I’m afraid, but I do hope that we can save the world with science, I really do. The world needs a lot of help and a lot of people really don’t trust science or scientist it’s kind of shameful.

[TR in conversation with Marty]
This is what technology is all about.

Marty:
Helping people…

[TR in conversation with Marty]

Yes!

Marty:
Absolutely, the stuff I do for AT&T is great and all that but doing this other stuff… this is the best stuff in the world. Volunteering and doing this other work. Taking some of that Geek ology and helping other people’s lives.. make them better. Man that’s just the dandiest thing in the world.

TR:
We need more of a bridge between the users of technology and the programmers, engineers, scientists … nerds.
Marty:
It’s cool to be a nerd now, yeh…. laughs.

TR:

The opportunity to profile Ahmet and his story came at the right time for me personally.
For the past few years, September has been a pretty busy time here on the Reid Compound.
As a survivor and a family impacted by Retinoblastoma, my family and I have spent the past few years telling stories to bring awareness of this childhood cancer.

September is childhood cancer awareness month. This year unfortunately we couldn’t produce the stories so being able to bring you Ahmet and drop a little info about this eye cancer means a lot to me personally.

In fact, I’d encourage you to check out some of the prior videos we have produced and see how the cancer impacted their lives. While these are videos the visuals included are enhancements, the story is told verbally.
I’ll have some links on this episode’s post on ReidMyMind.com.

I’m always hopeful that a story like Ahmet’s when presented in the mainstream media is done the right way. By that I mean, find and convey his message to the wider audience. In addition to the accessibility and self-advocacy I’m always personally encouraged when I see others going for their dream.

Ahmet was already preparing for the dream. He just needed the funding. His fortune, the San Francisco Lighthouse created the opportunity. Ahmet was prepared. Some say that’s the definition of luck… being prepared for opportunity

That’s another take away for me, be prepared for that opportunity. Begin moving towards your dream.

I hope the Holman Prize winners; Ahmet and Penny are encouraging you the listener to go for your dream if you’re not already.

I hope they’re encouraging you to subscribe to this podcast just
about anywhere podcasts are distributed… Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, Tune In and Sound Cloud

The world is going to be buzzing with this next episode, featuring
the final Holman Prize winner. Don’t miss it.

Peace

Hide the transcript

TR:

Wasup good people!
Today I am bringing you a first of sorts, a review of an app…

I was asked to do a piece on Microsoft’s new app called Seeing AI.for Gatewave Radio.

The interesting thing about producing a tech related review for Gatewave is that the Gatewave audience most likely doesn’t use smart phones and maybe even the internet. However, they should have a chance to learn about how this technology is impacting the lives of people with vision loss. Chances are they won’t learn about these things through any mainstream media so… I took a shot… And if there’s anything I am trying to get across with the stories and people I profile
it’s we’re all better off when we take a shot and not just accept the status quo

[Audio from Star Trek’s Next Generation… Captain La Forge fire’s at a chasing craft. Ends with crew mate exclaiming… Got em!]
[Audio: Reid My Mind Radio theme Music]

[Audio: Geordi La Forge from Star Trek talk to crew from enemy craft…]
TR:
Geordi La Forge from Star Trek’s Next Generation , played by LeVar Burton, was blind. However, through the use of a visor he was able to see far more than the average person.

While this made for a great story line, it also permanently sealed LeVar Burton and his Star Trek character as the default reference for any new technology that proposes to give “sight” to the blind.

[Audio: from intro above ending with Geordi saying…
“If you succeed, countless lives will be affected”
TR:
What exactly though, is sight?

We know that light is passed through the eye and that information is sent to the brain where it is interpreted and
quickly established to represent shapes, colors, objects and people.

A working set of eyes, optic nerves and brain are a formidable technological team.
They get the job done with maximum efficiency

Today, , with computer processing power growing exponentially and devices getting smaller the idea that devices like smart phones could serve as an alternative input for eyes is less science fiction and well, easier to see.

There are several applications available that bring useful functionality to the smart phone ;
* OCR or optical character recognition which allows a person to take a picture of text and have it read back using text to speech
* Product scanning – makes use of the camera and bar codes which are read and the information is spoken aloud again, using text to speech
* Adding artificial intelligence to the mix we’re seeing facial and object recognition being introduced.

Microsoft has recently jumped into the seeing business, with their new iOS app called Seeing AI… as in Artificial Intelligence!
There’s no magic or anything artificial about these results, they’re real!

In this application, the functionality like reading a document or recognizing a products bar code are split into channels. The inclusion of multiple channels in one application is already a plus for the user. Eliminating the need to open multiple apps.

Let’s start with reading documents.

For those who may have once had access to that super-fast computer interface called eyes , you’re probably familiar with the frustration of the lost ability to quickly scan a document with a glance and make a quick decision.

Maybe;
* You’re looking for a specific envelope or folder.
* you want to quickly grab that canned good or seasoning from the cabinet.

With other reading applications you have to go through the process of taking a picture and hoping you’re on the print side of the envelope or can. After you line it up and take the picture you find out the lighting wasn’t right so you have to do it again.

Using Microsoft’s Seeing AI you simply point the phones camera in the direction of the text

[Audio App in process]

Once it sees text, it starts reading it back! The quick information can be just enough for you to determine what you’re looking for. In fact, during the production of this review, I had a real life use case for the app.

My wife reminded me that I was contacted for Jury duty and I needed to follow up as indicated in the letter. The letter stated I would need to visit a specific website to complete the process. I forgot to put the letter in a separate area in order to scan it later and read the rest of the details. So rather than asking someone to help me find the letter, I grabbed the pile of mail from the table and took out my iPhone.

I passed some of my other blindness apps and launched Microsoft Seeing AI. I simply pointed the camera at each individual piece of paper until finding the specific sheet I was seeking. The process was a breeze. In fact, it was easier than asking someone to help me find the form. Ladies and gentlemen, that’s glancing!

Now that I found the right letter, I could easily get additional information from the sheet by scanning the entire document. I don’t need to open a separate app, I can simply switch to a different channel, by performing the flick up gesture.

Similar to a sighted person navigating the iPhone’s touch screen interface , anyone can non visually accomplish the same tasks using a set of different gestures designed to work with Voice Over, the built in screen reader that reads aloud information presented on the screen.

Using the document channel I can now take a picture of the letter and have it read back.

One of the best ways to do this is to place the camera directly on the sheet in the middle and slowly pull up as the edges come into view. I like to pull my elbows toward the left and right edges to orient myself to the page. Forming a triangle with my phone at the top center. The app informs you if the edges are in view or not.
Once it likes the positioning of the camera and the document is in view, it lets you know it’s processing.

[Audio: Melodic sound of Seeing AI’s processing jingle]

You don’t even have to hit the take picture button. However, if you are struggling to get the full document into view ,
you could take the picture and let it process. It may be good enough for giving you the information you’re seeking.

If you have multiple sheets to read, simply repeat.

Another cool feature here is the ability to share the scanned text with other applications. That jury duty letter, I saved it to a new file on my Drop Box enabling me to access it again from anywhere without having to scan the original letter

Let’s try using the app to identify some random items from my own pantry.

To do this, I switch the channel to products.

[Audio: Seeing App processing an item from my pantry…]

What you hear, is the actual time it took to “see” the product. All I’m doing is moving the item in order to locate the bar code.
As the beeps get faster I know I am getting closer. When the full bar code is in range, the app automatically takes the picture and begins processing.

[Audio: Seeing AI announces the result of the bar code scan… “Goya Salad Olives”

It’s pretty clear to see how this would be used at home, in the work environment and more.

Now let’s check out the A I or artificial intelligence in this application.

By artificial intelligence, the machine is going to use its ability to compute and validate certain factors in order to provide the user with information.

First, I’ll skip to the channel labeled Scene Beta…
Beta is another term for almost ready for prime time. So, if it doesn’t work, hey,, it’s beta!

Take a picture of a scene and the built in artificial intelligence will do its best to provide you with the information enabling you to understand something about that scene.

[Seeing AI reports a living room with a fireplace.]

This could be helpful in cases like
If a child or someone is asleep on the couch.

[Audio: Action Movie sound design]

I can even picture a movie starring me of course, where I play a radio producer who is being sought by the mob. The final scene I use my handy app to see the hitman approaching me. I do a round house kick…
ok, sorry I get a little carried away at the possibilities.

While no technology can replace good mobility travel skills I can imagine a day where the scene identification function will provide additional information about one’s surroundings.
Making it another mobility tool for people who are blind or visually impaired.

Now for my final act… oh wait it’s not magic remember!

Microsoft Seeing AI Offers facial recognition.
That’s right, point your camera at someone and it should tell you who that person is… Well, of course you have to first train the app.

To do this we have to first go into the menu and choose facial recognition.
To add a new person we choose the Add button.
In order to train Seeing AI you have to take three pictures of the person.
We elected to do different facial expressions like a smile, sad and no expression.
Microsoft recommends you let sighted family and friends take their own picture to get a good quality pic.

The setup requirement, while understandable at this point sort of reduces that sci fi feel.

After Seeing AI is trained, once you are in the people channel
when pointing your camera in the direction of the persons face, it can recognize and tell you the person is in the room.

[Audio: Seeing AI announces Raven about 5 feet in front.]

Seeing AI does a better job recognizing my daughter Raven when she smiles. That too me is not artificial intelligence because we all love her smile!

The application isn’t perfect. it struggled a bit with creased labels, making it difficult to read the bar code.

Not all bar codes are in the database. It would be great if users could submit new products for future use.

As a first version launch with the quick processing, Seeing AI really gives me something to keep an eye on. Or maybe I should say AI on!

Peering into the future I can see;

* Faster processing power that makes recognition super quick,
* Interfacing with social media profiles to automatically recognize faces and access information from people in your network
* lenses that can go into any set of glasses sending the information directly to the application not requiring the user to point their phone
at an item or person and privately receiving the information via wireless headset.
That could greatly open up the use cases.

In fact, interfacing with glasses is apparently already in development and
the team includes a lead programmer who is blind.

Microsoft says a Currency identification channel is coming in the future;
making Seeing AI a go to app for almost anything we need to see!

The Microsoft Seeing AI app is available from the Apple App store for Free 99. Yes, it’s free!

I’m Thomas Reid
[Audio: As in artificial intelligence!]
For Gatewave Radio, audio for independent living!

[Audio: Voice of Siri in Voice Over mode announcing “More”]

I don’t know if that’s considered a review in the traditional sense, but honestly I am not trying to be traditional.

The thing is, thinking about the application started to extend past the time when I was working on the piece…

That little jingle sound the app makes when it’s processing… it started to seep into my dreams…
[Audio: Dream Harp]

[Audio: “Funky Microsoft Seeing AI” An original T.Reid Production]

The song is based around the processing tone used in the app with the below lyrics.

(Audio description included in parens)

(Scene opens with Thomas asleep in bed with a dream cloud above his head)

The processing sound becomes a sound with Claps…

(We see a darkened stage)

(As the chorus is about to begin spotlight shines on Thomas & the band)

Chorus:
Microsoft Seeing AI
Helping people see without their eyes

Microsoft Seeing AI
Helping people see without their eyes

(Thomas rips off his shirt!)

Verse:
Download the app on my iPhone

{Background sings… “Download it, Download it!}

Checking out things all around my home

(Thomas dances on stage)

Point the camera from the front
Huh!
Point the camera from the back!

I’m like;
what’s that , what’s this
Jump back give my phone a kiss!
Hey! (James Brown style yell!)

(Thomas spins and drops into a split)

Chorus:
Microsoft Seeing AI
Helping people see without their eyes

Microsoft Seeing AI
Helping people see without their eyes

(Back in the bed we see Thomas with a fading dream cloud above his head)

Ends with the app’s processing sound.

TR:
Wow, definitely time to move on to the next episode…

With that said, make sure you Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Tell a friend to do the same – I have some interesting things coming up I think you’re going to like.
And something you may have not expected!

[Audio: RMMRadio Outro]
TR:
Peace!

Hide the transcript