Reid My Mind

TR:
Greetings Family! Welcome back to the second episode of the first season of 2022, Doing Your Thing with Disability.

— Music begins – A drum solo that loops, stops DJ scratch into a cymbal crash.

My name is Thomas Reid, host and producer of Reid My Mind Radio, the podcast bringing you compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability.

I’m excited to bring you today’s episode so I’m not going to say much in this introduction.
However, I know you’re going to dig what we’re about to get into so I’d like to encourage you right now to just go ahead and follow or subscribe to the podcast.
Seriously, what are you waiting for! Whatever app you’re using to listen right now, there’s something that says, follow or perhaps subscribe.
Hit that to make sure you don’t miss an episode.

I’ll take it from there!
— Reid My Mind Theme Music

Adriana:
Hi, I’m Adriana Mallozzi, founder and CEO of Puffin Innovations, we are creating hands free access to consumer electronics for individuals with limited mobility in their upper extremities. My pronouns are she and her. I am a Caucasian woman with a round face, ear length dark hair, and wearing a black T shirt with the words not impossible written across the chest in white and I am in a power wheelchair

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Why did you wear that shirt today?

Adriana:
It really represents I think my attitude with regards to what I want to do in life.

I’ve never been the type of person to take no for an answer. I’m realistic. I’m not a surgeon because I can’t use my hands.

It just really resonates with me and my attitude. And what it means to be a proud, disabled person showing that nothing can really stop you from doing whatever it is you want to do.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Can you just summarize your experience with disability?

Adriana:
Sure. During the birthing process, I stopped breathing. So the lack of oxygen caused brain damage, hence, I have cerebral palsy. I’m a spastic quad and I use a power wheelchair.

CP varies so much. It manifests in so many different ways that you would never know from one person to another, that they have the same diagnosis.

TR:

The diagnosis is what it is, but the person is who they were in their past, who they are in the moment and who they become in the future.
In each of those periods of time, there are things that impact a persons way of thinking.
Two things stand out about Adriana’s past that influence her belief of what is possible.

Adriana:

I am a child of immigrants. So I grew up going to Italy, to visit family, I still have first cousins there. Growing up, we would go spend the summers to see my grandparents. So travel was a big part of my life.

TR:

Adriana’s mom worked as a real estate agent and travel agent.

Adriana:

Just because it gave her the flexibility, she needed having a young family, especially for me as a child with a disability. She’d always be running around, having to take me to PT or OT or whatever.

She would win a trip for to, and then she would add my sister and I and we get to travel.

We went on cruises, and we got to go to Bermuda.

— Sound of an airplane taking off.
— Music begins – melodic horns slowly blow as a woman vocalist sings “higher” leading into a kick dram and a mid-tempo hip hop beat.

So I think it was just very inherent, it was in our blood. Traveling is just something that we love. My sister has made it into a job where she gets to travel around the world and experience a different culture

TR:

That’s her little sister, Mikaela. Professional dancer and four time EMMY Award winning host of her own travel show, Bare feet with Mickela Mallozzi.

I guess traveling without shoes is dangerous. (I don’t think that’s what’s she’s doing.)

Traveling as a power wheel chair user comes with some specific challenges.

Adriana:

When I travel, especially overseas, I don’t bring my power chair, just because it’s not as accessible in other countries. And it’s just easier to have a manual chair, when most of the countries are not wheelchair accessible, especially my own family’s home, my grandparents, its hundreds of years old, it belonged to my great, great grandparents and you know, it’s just not accessible. So I would travel with my manual chair, and when I’m in my chair, I literally can’t do anything myself.

TR:

Contrast this with her first experience taking her power chair overseas.

Adriana:

Also, the first time I flew overseas without a family member, I brought my PCA and I had to figure out all the logistics on my own.

That was the first time that I had ever done that in my life and it was amazing.

They really put a lot of thought into design with accessibility in mind.

You know how here, the elevator buttons are all literally at the door. If you use a wheelchair, you really can’t reach those buttons by the door because your foot rests are in the way and you can’t get close enough. Well, in Germany, all the buttons are on the side, on the wall. So you can easily reach them.
They also have not only a button to call the elevator at the door itself, but they also have free standing posts. So you can angle your chair in any direction and hit it however you can hit it. They did the same thing with automatic door openers, as well. And so I was so independent in there that I literally dreamt about being back there when I got back home.

TR:

Aware of the problems that power chair travelers experience, Adriana had a plan.

Adriana:

We bring a big roll of that wrap. How they wrap pallets? you know that plastic.

As soon as I get out of my chair, we put anything that are external to the seat of my chair, we put it in the seat of my chair, and then literally wrap my chair.

And so that has worked.

TR:

On the way to Germany at least.

On the return trip, as soon as they finished wrapping the chair,
Adriana and her PCA were told to unwrap because the chair needed to be tested.

It was taken but no one would speak with Adriana or her PCA.
Nervous about missing their flight and subsequent connection, they finally learned of the problem.

Adriana:

They’re like, Yeah, your chair tested positive for explosive.

We had to wait for the police to come. And then they were like, You need to take the battery. I was like, you can’t take the battery out, you don’t take the battery out.

They literally tried to tear out the battery. Like Luckily, they couldn’t figure out how to open anything. But they had snapped pieces. So there were broken pieces in the seat of my chair because it was like they were clawing to get to the internal electronics of my chair. I think it would have been worse if it wasn’t wrapped.

TR:

The dream of independence for people with disabilities often includes some nightmares.

Adriana:

They put my chair on the lift from the gait of the plane to load it down below.

and a person who was loading bags, he was literally throwing in like chucking things on top of my chair. And I was having a heart attack. I could see it through the window and I’m like, oh my god. We definitely took pictures and videos and my chair was a little broke like it wasn’t working properly and you know these chairs are 500 pounds so it’s not like it’s easy to push it.

TR:
joy and pain of traveling as a disabled person!

— Music Ends

The second influential component effecting Adriana’s belief of what is possible? Early exposure to technology.

Technology>
Adriana:

I began, PT and OT, or physical therapy and occupational therapy for those that don’t know what PT and OT stands for. at a really young age, I was diagnosed shortly after I turned a year old around 12 months or so. And soon after, we were sent to Easter Seals.

It was my OT who introduced me to a piece of technology that allowed me to use the computer, for the first time to do anything for the first time independently.

This was back in about83 or 84. I was about maybe seven, eight years old.

All I did was type, I type my name, and maybe some numbers. But just being able to do that, and be able to do something by myself for the very first time ever in my life.
It really hit me at that moment. I was like, wow, technology is going to be the key to my independence. Technology will be the way I will be able to do everything I ever wanted to be able to do.

TR:

And then there’s the DIY, Do it yourself attitude.
Adriana:

my father was in construction, he was a carpenter. I would always see him build. I think I got that problem solving. sort of mentality. Most people with disabilities, we have to adapt on the fly all the time. We have to figure out ways of doing things that the average person does not. And we always have to be at least two to three steps ahead. There has to be a Plan B, C, D, in case, X Y and Z goes wrong.

TR:

And when they go wrong, understanding the need to advocate for yourself.

Adriana:

My parents really had to struggle financially to get me what I needed, like the basic things that insurance considered luxuries like a bathing chair.

I can’t sit up by myself. So until I got that chair, I had to lay at the bottom of the tub. And I would be really creative and like, Yeah, I’m cool. toys like, I left pillows or floaties, or whatever, just to make me comfortable. So I wasn’t banging against the sides of the tub or hurting myself on the tub?

Of course, insurance? To be able to bathe safely and comfortably was a luxury.

My power chair I got when I was about eight years old. Me being able to be independent and move on my own was a luxury, according to the insurance company. So luckily, I think part of it was covered.

They just had to find ways to provide to get what I needed. And I’m really grateful that I had parents that did that.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Is that still, the situation with insurance with they treat those things like, luxury?

Adriana:
there are places still in the United States where people have to still fight for it. And yes, they still consider a luxury. But I’m lucky to be in the state of Massachusetts, and have the benefits and have not had to struggle as much as an adult in a different state to get the equipment that I need, but there are people in this country that that still have to fight, but still get subpar equipment, simply because insurance won’t cover the actual equipment that would be more suitable for that person.

I just don’t understand how people can be okay with that. I don’t understand how people that work in the insurance companies can have policies that allow that to happen. These are human beings and to treat human beings in that way, I just don’t understand.

— Music begins, a funky electronic dance track with lots of digital processing sounds and a funky groove.

TR:

The more you know how much it benefit’s a person, the more difficult it is to accept that it happens.

Adriana:

when I was older, let’s say my mid 20s was the first time that I had technology that I was able to turn on the lights to change channel on the TV, to open my door to my apartment. That was huge.

For the average person, it just sounds so basic. And these things excited me and I was so lucky. And I was in my mid-20s. And that was the first time I was able to do any of that by myself.

TR:

It doesn’t sound basic to me.
Adriana and I met as a result of inaccessibility.
It was December 2020 and I was trying to make sense of the social audio app Club House.
I accidentally hit a button that started up a room.
Honestly I freaked out, I had no idea who was going to join.
While searching how to quickly close the room someone popped in.
Shout out to Daniel from Singapore. We got to talking and then Adriana came into the room.

Adriana:
I joined clubhouse December of 2020, when everyone was locked down.

Initially, I was just checking out all the tech rooms and getting a feel for what was on there.
TR:

December 2020 was still considered early in Club House time.
There were a fair number of people using the app even though officially it was in Beta.
There was a lot of everything, good conversations to scammers, and definitely inaccessibility.

While in a room with some discussion taking place about disability Adriana didn’t like what she was hearing.

Adriana:

Special needs, and differently abled and Handi capable and all those god awful euphemisms instead of the actual word disability. And we’re like, Okay, this has to stop. Let’s do a room about disability and about language. And that’s how it started.

TR:

That room led to the creation of a club.

Adriana:
I was trying to come up with something clever, for a club name.

I read, 15% of the world’s population has a disability. And I was like, Oh, my God, we’re going to call it the 15. Then it sounds really exclusive. And cool, it’s Wow. And people will be like, Oh, what is this 15%, right, like, I want to be part of the 15.

TR:

There were some really great conversations throughout the rooms, from those hosted by the club to those from other members.

We as a club along with some cool allies (shout out to Glenn with two n’s) played a big role in advocating for improved access to that app,
making certain to voice concerns from the perspective of all users with disabilities.
Literally, all we wanted was to be included in the conversation.

Music ends.
TR:

Hey y’all, I’m cutting into the flow of the episode.
It’s time to announce the winner of the
February Socially ReidSponsible Instagram Giveaway.

Last time,
I told y’all about Annie.
A friend of the family who wanted to come on board and
help manage the Reid My Mind Radio Facebook and Instagram pages.
Last time Annie was under the weather…
while I knew the sun would come out…
I was hoping to get her on the podcast and ask…
Annie are you ok? Are you ok. Are you ok Annie!

Ok, I’ll stop before Annie decides to get her gun…

The winner of the February Reid My Mind Radio Instagram giveaway is…

Congratulations @Malic_acid,
Enjoy your very own Reid My Mind Radio
coffee or tea mug.

Now back to the episode…

Music ends with a bouncing base…

TR in Conversation with Adriana :

What was your first experience with having to advocate for yourself?

Adriana:
I liked pushing boundaries. But I was also very shy. Growing up, my teachers didn’t even know I could speak because I was so shy.

I started opening up more when I was in middle school and high school.

It was freshman English, and I had to write a paper. I decided to write about how, as someone with a disability, who took all honors classes, I had a one to one aid to help me turn pages or write notes for me who didn’t understand English.

TR:

Adriana literally would have to spell out things she wanted the assistant to write.
Meanwhile, the teacher is moving on with the rest of the class.
Could you imagine how frustrating that would be for a 14 year old?

She decided to write about it.

Adriana:

I knew once the essay was handed in, and I would go down the halls, I knew all the teachers knew, I knew the administrators. did and they were all talking about and I think that was my first like, official. My self-advocating for myself.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
What lessons did you take away from that?

Adriana:
It felt good, actually, to cause a ruckus.

It was really obvious that they underestimated me. Even though I was in honors courses. I think it was really clear that because I was shy, because I never really spoke loudly or did anything like that all of a sudden, I wrote this paper. They had an insight to what was really going on inside my mind and how I was really feeling about the situation.

TR:

After being assigned a new aide, she knew her words could make a difference.

In her senior year in high school, Adriana wanted to work on the year book.
She knew she could, everything was computerized at this point.
But she was told she couldn’t.

Adriana:

Because it’s on the third floor and the elevator doesn’t go there. After four years of being in high school, I had no idea that there was even another floor that I had no access to.

Someone that I knew that was on the school paper, decided to interview me about it. A year or so later, they fix that.

TR:
Years later, Adriana found herself working as the editor of a newsletter at the Massachusetts rehabilitation commission.

Adriana:
it was called the consumers voice. Up until when I took it over, it was mostly just a regurgitation of what was on the DOJ website and not really the voice of the people.

I said, we’re changing that.

Music begins –
They allowed me to assemble a group of individuals who were involved or who were consumers of Voc Rehab. And people were also allowed to submit their own stories if they wanted to share an experience, both negative or positive.

TR:
At least that was what she thought.
It wasn’t until one consumer sent in a not so nice letter about their experience that tested the policy.
It landed her on a call with the Executive Office of Health and Human Services defending the consumer.

Adriana:

I said, Excuse me, but this is called the consumers voice. It is a factual story. No one is being called out by name in this story.

We went back and forth a little bit, and it got published.

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Why was the idea of having the voice of the consumer being heard? Why was that so important to you?

Adriana:
It would be an injustice, if it was called the consumers voice and not having no voice of those people in that publication. It was wrong. It was so wrong on so many levels when you didn’t actually broadcast those voices and those stories and so it was really important to me to be true to what the name stood for.

TR:

In her job at a Day Rehab Center in charge of coordinating wheel chair evaluations, She found herself often advocating on behalf of others.
Sometimes that just means informing people of the process and their rights.

Adriana:
So most people don’t know this. But when you’re wheelchair shopping, it is your right, to test drive multiple chairs, it’s just like buying a car.
You spend most of your time in this thing. And it needs to be right for you.

TR:

Advocating on behalf of another person can be tricky.
Especially when you sometimes share medical professionals.
Like the time an OT didn’t provide a consumer with the chance to test multiple chairs.

Adriana:

So I knew this person, both professionally as well as someone who had helped me in the past to get equipment. And so I called her and said, hey, you know, I really think that he should buy this other kind of chair. I think he would benefit from it.

And she says,

— Music ends.

Well, you know, I didn’t think He needed to try anything, because he has a cognitive disability. And I was thinking at that moment, God, you are so lucky that his mother did not just hear you say that. And you’re also so lucky that I could not reach through this phone and rattle you.

TR:

I’m a big fan of this part of Adriana’s personality!
But fortunately for all involved, she has a really good head on her shoulders.

Adriana:

We spoke for a while and convinced her that we should have another wheel chair eval. We did it at the clinic not on site.

TR:

Mind you, this wasn’t in an official capacity. She took off to attend the eval in order to make sure this person received the appropriate service.

Adriana:

Prior to using this chair, he would crash into things all the time.

In this chair, he drove like a pro. It was also a standing chair. So he was able to stand and read, his mom was in tears. And it was just the most amazing and I was so happy that he was able to get what he actually needed and what best suited him. And then the OT came over after and apologized to me afterwards.

— A bit of silence…

“I’ve always been that type of person where I want to try to figure out how to make things better. How to make things easier for other people, not just myself.” – Adriana

TR in Conversation with Adriana :
Let’s go to another form of your advocacy. It’s what I think is sort of your natural interest in technology, combined with your empathy for others. I see all of that combined to make the beginning of Puffin innovations.

Adriana:

I’ve always been the type of person to have ideas and want to improve upon existing tech. And right after I graduated college I was sending out two different kinds of resumes. One was the typical resume that you would send to a company. And then I had a resume called assistive tech resume. And I would list all the things that I was experienced in using and New England. And I would apply to all these companies that I had used their equipment and I looked up to and it was a dream of mine, to work for a company.

TR:

Adriana had no entrepreneurial ambitions.
She just wanted to work for an Assistive Technology company that was serving people with disabilities.
That was until she receive word about an event.
]

Adriana:

MIT was looking for people living with disabilities, who had an idea, a solution to a problem that they themselves are experiencing. I was like, oh my god, this is like a dream come true. I get to go to a hackathon. At that point, I had never been.

I was just on cloud nine because I was like, oh my god, I have this opportunity to go to MIT, hang out with all these geeky people and geek out together and just be around all day. So I submitted my solution, it didn’t have a name, but it was the Puffin.

TR:

She along with about 15 other applicants were selected to participate in the hackathon.

Prior to the event, a dinner was held to give the co designers, that is the MIT coders and those with the ideas a chance to meet and connect with one another.

Adriana:

It’s kind of like speed dating.

The students will go around and meet each of the designers, and find more out about what it is that you want to do. This group of students came to me and they never left.

Literally, they had laptops, we were looking at parts, like we were already figuring out what we needed to make this happen.

TR:

Each team had an opportunity to request parts and technology prior to the hackathon.

Adriana:

Luckily, there was this person who he is now a puffin advisor, he had this big chest of parts. And if it weren’t for him, we wouldn’t have been able to build it at all. because we didn’t get any of the parts that we had ordered.

The students were amazing, because they really listened to what I had to say. I think that’s what made our team so successful. We were willing, and able to take each other things, and put that together, and put it in a way that works. We never dismissed anyone’s idea or anything.

We ended up making a working version, I think that’s why we won first place.

We got so much press. We were even in the New York Times, which was amazing.

TR:

Already motivated to get this product out to others who wanted more independence,
Adriana began receiving emails from people around the world asking that very question.
She was thinking about patents and funding while the student’s went on to complete their course work.

Adriana:

A good friend of mine who happened to be writing her thesis. She was getting an MBA back in 2016. And she was writing a thesis on hackathons.

She said, you had a successful hackathon, so I want to interview you.
When we were done, she was like, Well, what’s stopping you from doing that from making it into a real thing.

That was really her and I taking the time to just look up applications, learn what was out there and then apply to all these funding opportunities.

TR:

The idea that began after receiving an email in 2015 started to look more like it was turning into a real business.

Adriana:

It just all fell into place in 2017. And we got a $200,000 grant from the VA. It was April Fool’s Day. I kept looking at the email. I’m just like, This is real, right?
It was just surreal, like the most surreal experience, because we’ve never done anything like this before.

It really worked out because then we got into mass challenge. And that really propelled us forward because we didn’t have space, we didn’t have anywhere to go to work on this.

TR:
The Mass Challenge is a business accelerator program in Massachusetts.
In addition to funding and networking opportunities, they provide access to production space and other resources including equipment and people.

Adriana:

The people that would walk in and out of there were just people in the high tech industry that you would never otherwise ever meet in your life. And it was just an amazing experience. We also, as a result, something that happens here in Boston called inbound, that HubSpot runs. And we happen to have been part of that challenge. We got free tickets to HubSpot, HubSpot, or to endow and that year Michelle Obama was the keynote speaker. We got to go and it was just the most amazing thing ever.

TR:

Just when things are going really well, (Pandemic! )Covid 19.
Unlike other tech companies that were able to thrive during the pandemic, Puffin is a little different.

Adriana:
It’s a physical product.

* testing this here *
Our device is actually a mouth operated wireless input device. It’s just a fancy way of saying it acts as a mouse. So for people like myself, who can’t use their hands, they could pair our device with any Bluetooth enabled devices, so like your computer, or your cell phone, or your tablet, and then have full access to that device.

I know several people who don’t even have mobile devices, especially back when I started. That’s because they physically can’t interact with the touchscreen. That is why this was so important.

We also have an app that goes with the product, but it interacts with the device.

It’s really a hard thing to get parts that are not from overseas. And that’s where a lot of our components are coming from. We were down for a good supply chain. But now we’re ramping back up again.

TR:

Helping to build up some of that momentum is winning the ServiceNow digital workforce challenge along with acceptance into the Verizon for good Accelerator program.
Adriana:

Which is super exciting, because you get to work with these tech experts, from Verizon.

A big part of our device is the portability, the connectivity of it, wireless. And so having this opportunity to work with a communication giant, like Verizon, and leader in wireless technology, which then we will be able to incorporate in our device is going to be pretty amazing and really bring it to the next level.

TR:

Adriana says Similar products on the market haven’t seem much in the way of innovation because there’s little competition.

Adriana:

they have no reason to actually change it. So we’re changing it!

TR:

By incorporating artificial intelligence or machine learning.

Adriana:

I wanted this device to recognize, hey, this person is having a little more difficulty in doing this or that, or is struggling with moving in certain ways. So let me adjust the sensitivity, or let me adjust the pressure that is needed to go in this direction, but not in this direction.

TR:

By the end of the program with Verizon,
Adriana would like Puffin to have a product ready for sale in a beta phase in order to generate user feedback.

By the way, the name Puffin is like a shout out to the bird of the same name.
The devices mouth piece resembled the bird’s beak.
That beak you can say, is a form of assistive technology.
It enables them to carry food to their baby back at the nest.

Doing her thing with disability, is what separates Puffin from other solutions.
Adriana not only understands the value for herself, but seems just as excited for what that access brings to others.

Adriana:

I don’t know what I do Without accessing my cell phone. I can control everything with my phone, now. I can control the TV, I can control the lights with my phone, I can do my banking, I can do my shopping, I can read a book, right? I can, whatever, make phone calls, etc. You can literally do everything with a mobile device. So for people with disabilities, if you have access to your mobile device, you literally have access to the world. And that’s what’s really important to us. It’s giving people that opportunity to have access to things that they otherwise would not have access to.

TR in Conversation with Adriana:
Ok, How do I say this? Because of all the things that you do, your willingness to share, and help others the way you do your thing with disability. You Adriana Mallozzi are an official member of the Reid my Mind Radio family welcome to the family, Adriana.

Adriana:
Thank you! I’m honored to be a member.
TR in Conversation with Adriana:

So how can people learn more about the Puffin, about you? All of that.

Adriana:
So you can find more about Puffin at Puffininno.com So that’s Puffin like the bird and inno.com. Or @Puffininno on all social media platform. That is our handle. If you are on Club House come and join the 15% Club.

For me it’s just AdrianaMallozzi is my handle on on all social media platforms.

TR:
I started to give credit to the lack of access within the early version of the Club House app for my chance to meet and get to know Adriana.

It’s like giving credit to inaccessibility, poor treatment and service for the strong advocacy,
problem solving or management skills you’ll find among people with disabilities.

No! I’m not crediting the negative.

The energy we each give off works to bring people in and out of our lives.

Adriana and I were both on the Club House app, simultaneously trying to figure some of the same things out.
In fact, some of the same access issues that impact her were impacting me as a Voice Over user.
It wasn’t disability specific.
Perhaps that’s something I needed to hear.
I may have been seeking that without even knowing.

Maybe you listening here today needed to hear the words on Adriana’s shirt; “Not Impossible”. That’s really an energy that I personally want for anyone listening, the energy I want for myself.

Yes, we can dream big.
I just want to hear more from those achieving without having to compromise any part of themselves.

I’m tired of conversations about overcoming CP, blindness or disability in general.
I’m here when you want to talk about society overcoming it’s need to put up barriers,
it’s inaccessible websites and technology or
unwillingness to hire, give opportunities to or in any way include the disabled community.

I’m here for conversation with people like Adriana who want to talk about pursuing goals, making dope enabling technology.

I’m here when you want to talk about Doing Your Thing With Disability!

And you know where to find me right?
That’s wherever you get podcasts. If you’re on Facebook and Instagram, that’s @ReidMyMindRadio on Twitter @tsreid.
Or slide on over to ReidMyMind.com and you can find transcripts for our episodes.
Just make sure you remember, that’s R to the E I D!

— Sample (“D!”) And that’s me in the place too be! Slick Rick

Adriana:

Like his last name!

Audio: Reid My Mind Outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

— Music begins, a cymbal crash launches a calm ambient melody which leads to a smooth Hip Hop beat.

Siri:

Ready to send it?

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:
Yes.

Siri:

Ok, sent!

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

Aaight, cool!

You don’t know about Black Siri?

D’arcee:

… No!

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

Aaight, hold on, let me have Siri say something.

Hey Siri, what time is it?

Siri:

2:09 PM.

D’arcee:

Stop! (Extended so Pronounced, Stoooooop!)

(Thomas, D’arcee and AJ all laugh…)

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

That’s the blackest it’s gonna get, but that’s Black Siri.

D’arcee:

Oh…. I’m dead….

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

If you go into the Siri settings, it’s Voice 3.

D’arcee:

I’m about to change that shit right now! Woo hoo!
TR:
! that really is a thing y’all!
Apple added some additional voices for Siri.
And voice 3 is a Black Man.
That reaction you heard is common.
At least in my experience specifically among those who are Black.
The laughter, was excitement.
Maybe you’re thinking, why would a Black Siri voice matter?
Well, Black voices matter!
Secondly, , please go back to an earlier episode in this series featuring Lateef McCleod for a much more detailed explanation.

Simply put, voices matter, representation matters.
If it doesn’t to you perhaps you’ve always been represented.

If this is your first time here and you’re not familiar with my voice, I’m Thomas Reid, producer and host of this podcast.

You’re just in time for the final episode in the YGBD series or
Young Gifted Black & Disabled.
This all began with an episode I co-produced last year with
Mr. Ajani Jerod AKA AJ! ;
— Sample AJ from “AJ Scratch” Kurtis Blow

A Reid My Mind Radio family member and alumni.

And it seemed right to team up again to close the series.

Since that last production in 2020, AJ caught me up on some of his personal and career highlights in 2021.

Among several positive highlights in his acting career, AJ has a role in a film released this year, Best Summer ever, which garnered a fair amount of attention.

He’s working in a new position that gives him a chance to really flex his creative muscles and advance opportunities for people with disabilities.
And join me in congratulating AJ as a new homeowner!

TR:

Having a job or even better, a career,
providing shelter and safety for one’s family;
in the minds of men, these are a few things impacting how we define masculinity.

Before we get into it, I need to let you know,
we talk about some things that may not be appropriate for young listeners and possibly triggering for others including sexual content and trauma.
The conversation covers a range of emotions. Yeh, real men have those!

— Reid My Mind Radio Theme Music

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee: 04:07
So let’s jump into it then, man. So you good AJ?

AJ:

Yeah, I’m good.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee: 04:07

We’ve all been here before. So we just gonna kind of keep it pushing. So brief intro. name, image description, D’arcee, do you wanna kick it off?

D’arcee:

Sure. So, my name is DRC Cherington Neil, I am a dark skin black man with purple dreads and a shaved head in various shades of purple. And I am currently sitting at my desk in my apartment, and I’m wearing a gray t shirt that says love is equal.

TR in conversation with AJ and D’arcee:

Professor Purple!

TR:
He’s an ABD Doctoral student, meaning all but dissertation or he’s almost done!

We could have went with a royal theme for this episode as AJ wore a purple shirt.

I figured it made sense to go with Black. Nahmean!

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

so DRC, how do you sort of qualify masculinity?

D’arcee:
There you go starting with the life altering. I mean, if you had asked me that, like 10 years ago, I think my answer would be wildly different. Because I think, people, the answer to that question is literally dependent upon their own experiences. And I think so much of that experience is tied to age.

If you ask a 16 year old what’s masculinity, they gonna get you this bullshit answer about cars and sports and girls.

all sports ball is the same to me. I will say I don’t care about no cars, but my electric BMW begs to differ..

I honestly believe that being a queer person informs this more than being a straight person, y’all can tell me I’m wrong. But as a man who loves other men, it radically redefines your understanding of what it is to be masculine.

TR:

Woh! I can just imagine the reaction of some people to that statement. But I think if you’re going to explore the definition of masculinity then you have to be open minded and hear people out. No matter where it comes from.

D’arcee:
it’s like that whole phrase, we say, in the community, masc for masc, it’s the word masculine, M A S C.

It’s a toxic ass phrase, that basically means traditional masculinity need only apply.

People, expertly weaponize this phrase of masculinity, to mean “traditional” six pack, square jaw, scruff, kind of masculinity.
What you’re talking about is the flavor of masculinity. All forms of masculinity are value. And that includes trans masculinity too!
Folks want to try to come for me on my DMs I said what I said.

TR:
D’arcee can handle himself. But this is my house and I feel accountable and protective of my family. So be advised, you come for him you coming for me.

Too much? I’m trying to be a better man, my daughters help point out my toxic masculinity.

I hope that didn’t come across violent, but if you have issues that’s your problem. No need to share them.

AJ:

I guess when I think about masculinity, I think of strength in terms of not only physically or spiritually, being able to hold it down and always be accountable and always there to always ever serve.

If I can get into some stereotypes, when I think of masculinity, of course, I think of ego, being braggadocious. Being athletic, not having a job.

TR:

Well, AJ raised the issue of stereotypes, let’s just put them on the table.

AJ:

The negative stereotypes of black man is lazy. Good for nothing.
You get into the historical stereotypes like studs, Black man is in jail, or black men aren’t gonna take care of the kids.

D’arcee:

I think that people associate Black men with rage, gangs and violence.

A lot of people think of black men as being ultra conservative.
I don’t mean politically. Behaviorally, very inflexible. This is where black homophobia comes from.

A lot of it comes from black men. And the stereotype of inflexibility which, in turn gets translated into strength. In this weird, warped way.

There are some positive ones too. People think of black men as being stylish. They think of them as being very well dressed. But that comes with the side effect of they think of Black men as flashy.

AJ:

When you say that I think of that episode of Living Single, when Kyle, I think he was a mutual funds manager. This other brother really had issues with the twist of his hair. I thought that was a very good episode, because it shows the internal struggle
[between us and other black people.
]
Because it wasn’t the white bosses, it was the other brother on the team that told him to cut his hair.

D’arcee: 55:57

I’ve been in that situation. And it was extremely uncomfortable.

When I worked at the University of Maryland, I worked the front desk in the English department and the chair, this white woman she walked in. There were two black faculty standing in the doorway when she walked in.

It was the last day of school and I had just cut my hair.

I’ve had dreads for most of my adult life in various ways. And they had never really seen me without dreds , because that’s a years long process.
Oh, she said, you got your haircut? And I said, Yep, I did. And then she said, you look like a grown up now.

The black faculty in the door, were like, Oh, it’s a third rounder, she was like, what? Oh, come on, like, you guys know what I mean?

AJ: 57:07
Back in the day. I had longer hair. So I had braids, because I was trying to get my swag on and that way.

This one lady, she was a black woman. And she wasn’t necessarily talking to me, but I had heard the conversation and she was saying that her son also want to braid his hair. But she was like, I’m not gonna let him do that. She was talking about the gang Association and how, having hair like that was bad. And I don’t know if she didn’t notice, but I was like, I’m right in here. And I felt so sad. Because just because I have long hair, and I had these braids, but I’m a student. I’m respectful to you. I’m on the honor roll and I have braids, but you associated braids or longer hair with thuggery.

D’arcee: 58:24
You can’t be surprised you know, you invisible

TR:

That’s the thing, Black can make you invisible in many ways.

For example, shows like Friends or Seinfeld. They took place in New York City and there’s no interaction with Black people?

The way white store workers ignore Black people. I’m telling you, we even here, oh I didn’t see you.

If they do land eyes on you, sometimes it’s the stereotypes that are seen. So you’re followed in that store because they see a criminal.

Add disability and that introduces a new layer of stereotypes and invisibility that occurs within our own community as well.

AJ:
When I think of masculinity from societal speaking, maybe some stereotypes, I think, definitely non vulnerability, he can’t be vulnerable at all. You definitely can’t cry at all.

How many songs I heard…

— Audio quick mix of;
“- I Heard it through the grapevine”, Marvin Gaye;
“I know a man ain’t supposed to cry…”

“Tears of a Clown”, Smokey Robinson & The Miracles;
“Now if there’s a smile on my face, it’s only there trying to fool the public…”

“Ain’t to Proud to Beg”, Temptations;
“Now I heard a crying man, is half a man, with no sense of pride, If I have to cry…”

AJ:

I missed that meeting, because the brother cries all the time.

No sensitivity, you keep very serious things to yourself. He can’t show any weakness at all.

You kind of have to know everything and be the jack of all trades.

D’arcee:
Yeah, because Dude, don’t ask for help.

AJ:

If you have children, the males are definitely the disciplinarians.

D’arcee:
Is that true and black households? Because I would definitely not agree.

AJ:

Yeah, yeah. It was my mom, because my mother was the primary razor.

I just mean how many of y’all have heard? wait until your daddy gets home?

D’arcee:

I think that what you’re talking about is physical discipline because like my mother was not the person, my daddy did that

TR:

My mother occasionally used that line on me, but she was the physical disciplinarian while my Dad never raised a finger.

The threat meant I’d have to sit through a 45 minute lecture from my Dad. My sister and I would often debate whether we’d just prefer a beating.
And just in case you’re curious, when it comes to discipline, I ended up just like my Dad! And my girls not only appreciate it but I think they turned out great! Hash tag stop corporal punishment.

TR:

So far, we’ve been talking stereotypes about Black men.
But what does that look like in the real world when we add disability?

D’arcee:

This is exactly what my research is. I study like black culture, but what happens when you add disability to it?

When you talk about blackness disability together the association is so terrible. And it’s, it’s this right here. It’s the core of this right here, because people already associate negative things with blackness. And when you add disability on top of it, that just amplifies the feeling.

AJ:
I remember one time me and a partner who’s also disabled. We’re sitting outside because we got dropped off for the bus. So we were just hanging out, and it was on the sidewalk. This older lady is riding in her car. And she just gets out of her car and gives us hot wings. Hot wings and a Pepsi.

D’arcee:
AJ I completely understand what you’re talking about.
All of the work that I’m doing now it’s an amalgamation of all the experiences that I’ve had that are like this, because it just kept happening.
And I literally was like, why does this keep happening to me?

Obama was coming to our building. And I got really dressed up because they told us we had to. I was in the three piece suit.
[Says emphatically, while clapping his hand to stress the point.)

TR:

You know one of those days when you just sort of feel like, why did I even leave my house? For D’arcee, it began with the access bus driver’s back handed compliment, “You’re looking too sharp to be in that wheel chair. Really?

D’arcee:

I left work that day, went home, and went to the 7 Eleven. I wanted a gallon of milk and some honey nut cheerios, because that is the best cereal on planet Earth.

TR:

If you’re interested in sponsorship here on the podcast, please contact ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

D’arcee:

And grabbed a thing of White Castle burgers because they was calling my name.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:
We gonna have to work on your diet, bro.

D’arcee:
this woman in front of me, she paid for her stuff. But she didn’t leave the store.

And she kept eyeballing me. And I was looking at her and she was looking at me and I was looking at her and she was looking at me.

I was like, right, so she didn’t want to get out the way.

I was trying to swipe my card and she moved my card out the way and just literally handed me a fistful of cash.

I didn’t know what to do. I’m in a three piece suit. Wearing my Fedora. My Houndstooth jacket, looking very DC policy.

I was like, Oh, thank you very much. But I’m good.

Then the door opens and this random man comes in. He’s like, Yo, did you pay for the man’s groceries?

So they had concocted this plan while I was going around the 7 Eleven picking up food. And I had been oblivious to all of it.

I swiped my card, got my groceries and left and didn’t say anything to her. And so she literally, she followed me outside. And then she was like, why don’t you take my money?

TR:

Charity, it’s often not for the so called recipient.
Once, someone accuse me of “blocking their blessing” because I refused their help.

I guess the real issue is often, how we’re perceived is ultimately out of our control.

D’arcee:

that was the reason I was talking about my suit. Because people literally don’t know how to conflate these two things together and everything to do with being a man.

AJ:

My mom actually knew an able bodied man, I think he was a comedian.
He got himself a wheelchair, and he would just sit downtown in the chair. His side hustle was he pretended to be disabled to earn cash. Chair

TR:
Ah yes, I’m reminded of the ol’ you’re faking your disability trope.

Another way we’re perceived by the public.

— Music begins, a thumping upbeat dance track.

D’arcee:

I will never forget. Oh, God, I was at a club.
I was there with my friend because she wanted to go.

I’m not big on clubs, but she dragged me there. It’s a dance club. fuck am I gonna do?

The club feels like it’s one of the worst places in the world. It’s a microcosm of every ableist fantasy on display at all times. If you not a ten, you’re not supposed to be in there. But like, people will bring you in there anyway, because they need entertainment.

TR:

Left alone while his friend goes off to dance with some guy,
D’arcee is approached by a woman.

D’arcee:

She was like, hey, and I was like, Yo, what’s up? And then she was like, she was like, Come on, let’s go to the dance floor.

TR:

D’arcee offers his hand, which she takes and pulls him in his wheelchair to the dance floor.

As they’re passing the bar, the bartender calls out to D’arcee.

Bartender:

Yo! Somebody paid for you to have this drink.

D’arcee:

Oh, wow, thanks. And I took the drink and got ready to drink it. And the girl was like, no. And she slapped a cup out my hand, knock the whole drink on the floor. And I was like, what.

She was like, I saw dudes put X in that. They just wanted to see how you would react.

That was issue number one, that people already knew that I was out of place in this location.

TR:

When they finally reach the dance floor, the woman is grabbing’ on D’arcee. Then she leans over and whispers in his ear.

D’arcee:

I want to make my boyfriend jealous.

Oh, wait, what? Wait.

her boyfriend was on the steps like mean muggin’ as fuck. And I was like nah, nah, nah, I’m not feeling this. And so I left her.

AAJ:
One time I was at this club and I wasn’t exactly in the exit but I was in that direction. So this lady it was a beautiful lady but this lady she’s headed out the club but she looks at me and stops before she leaves So she turns around, bends over and shakes it for me. I’m like, okay, which I’m not gonna lie. You know, I don’t know if this is wrong, but I appreciate it.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

Ain’t nothing wrong with appreciating that.

D’arcee:

I mean, but also why though?

AJ:
I think she assumed, this is something he doesn’t get,.

I was at this other club. It was this man and his girlfriend or his wife and we were dancing.

He turns her around. and he’s slapping her butt, for me.

TR & D’arcee together in a questioning voice….
“Thank you?”

— Slow Transition moving to a more serious vibe

D’arcee:
you can bleep all of this out to remove it all. I don’t want to be rude. But I also want to be real on this because people deserve it.

In the queer community, people associate masculinity in sexuality, and it causes real problems for me, because I have been in a number of situations where I’ll be hooking up with a dude. And then he will assume, because it’s like, you know, I’m a man, and you’re a man that we came here to fuck. So like, that’s what we’re doing
. So the thing is you don’t even ask my permission.

I’m still trying to decide if I want to call it assault, because I don’t know where it falls on the gradient.

We haven’t had any kind of discussions about what we were gonna do. I had at least five dudes do this to me.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee: 1:34:58

Wow!

D’arcee:

If you decided to keep all that I know people gonna be listening, they’re gonna be like, wait like, is he talking about rape?

I’m talking about consent, consensual, you know, hookup, or, you know, relationships we met to get it in and half the time.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:
I feel like sisters would be like, bro, we this is what we experience. And so is that I don’t want to do like a disservice. You understand? I’m saying, and I’m not trying to tell you what your experiences at all. But man if we flipped it…

— Reverse slow Transition.

— Music Begins, a bouncy up-tempo, high energy Hip Hop beat!

“Forgive me Sir, but there’s something I’d like to ask you.”
“Yes.”
“Well, I don’t know how to say this so I’d better say it in the shortest way.”

TR:

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— Sample: “Can you dig it!” “Warriors”

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“D” and that’s me in the place to be. Slick Rick) Like my last name.

Now back to the episode. ———-

AJ
I’m not trying to say because of my disability and your disability is different. But sometimes, I wonder, do you think, the things that you explore and are open about, do you think you would have those same opportunities, if your disability was more significant?

I’m a person that wants to be very sexual. I wonder, like, if I were a little more mobile, like you are, like a transformer, what I have an easier time getting down?
Do you think people perceive you as sexier versus more of a person with a more significant disability?

D’arcee:
Sure. I will say, first of all, that I recognize this is a question of privilege. And I most certainly do have that privilege.

The fact that you and I both have cerebral palsy, we both know that it manifests so differently in every person’s body.

TR:

We could replace CP in this part of the conversation with vision loss, hearing loss or just Go ahead and insert your favorite disability.

There are restrictions and privileges that come with any degree of disability
no matter where you fall on the spectrum.

But that’s not necessarily how it’s always viewed.

D’arcee:

They say wheelchair users sit on the top of the hierarchy of pretty. And by wheelchair users, they really mean like paraplegics and you know, people who look otherwise quote, unquote, normal, but in a wheelchair,. For all intents and purposes, you basically are normal, which is that it’s such a horrible, insidious way of talking about somebody’s body, but people are doing this.

TR:

It starts early.

D’arcee:

in middle school, we talked about sex constantly. Just being disabled didn’t preclude me from that conversation. But it did put it in a different light, because they were all like I’m doing X and X. And X was such girl, even if they weren’t just complete full of shit.

But at the same time, there’s this extra added layer of like, but at least they could. Whereas you know, you can’t.

AJ:

In school, a lot of people thought I was down and cool,
But when it came to the discussion of sex,
anytime I wanted to be included in the conversation, they were shocked, like, AJ?

Like, what am I a patron saint?

I’m a teenager just like you guys, right? I want to just like yell, but people were shocked is if it’s something I’m not supposed to do.

D’arceee:

I remember one of the worst days ever.
This dude Mike. He was Like, why do you have Aliyah on the front of your binder?

To the whole class he was like, huh, we all know that if you do jerk off it ain’t nothing but air. And everybody was laughing.

AJ, to your point, people think that it’s fine to do it at your expense because you’re disabled. And they literally are like, Well, you’re not going to have sex anyway. Who cares if you’re a man who wants to, you’re not going to do it. So you know, it really doesn’t matter. This is why they exclude you from conversations.

TR:

Occasionally, you get a sense of what the conversations are like when you’re not there.

D’arcee:

I was playing Xbox Live with a bunch of gay men. It was like 12 of us in this group.
We were talking about the club. I was like how difficult it is to be in the gay club.

This dude named Ben, who is in Portland, Oregon , said, I’m gonna say what nobody else wants to say.
Nobody wants you in there. You’re not welcome in there.
Honestly, I would throw myself off a bridge. Living your life is terrible. If I saw you in the club I might give you my number, but if I did, he said it would be with it when the lights are out where no one can see it.
I was so mortified. And I literally, and there was 12 people on this call, and nobody stood up for me. Nobody.

AJ: 1:52:38

I’m sorry that’s really upsetting to me. And I’m stopping myself from crying because they’re just disgusting.

But that’s what a lot of people think about disability. Disability is tragic, disability is ugly. Disability is seen as unmasculine.

There’s a lot of physical things that I can’t do. For instance, I’m an older sibling. But in a lot of ways, because I need so much help. I feel like my sisters are older than me.

I can’t be the big brother than I want to be.

my mom was a single mom, so sometimes I felt like I couldn’t necessarily help cleaning up. I mean, I certainly know now that you know, I have to change things and the way I look at work is different from when I was little, but it was hard.

TR:

Those adjusting to blindness or disability in general can truly benefit from reexamining things in our lives that affect how we view ourselves. Our career, family roles and responsibilities, the formidable loss of a driver’s license for example.

Reinventing ourselves isn’t exclusively a masculine trait, This conversation has me wondering, what is?

AJ:

I have male friends but my closest friends that I have are female, my strongest connections.
I noticed, I’ll be a church and like men would be talking and joking. And so when I would come around, for some reason, conversations would stop

D’arcee:

Disability is for many people the personification of a nightmare.

If I’m just gonna be 100 honest about it, I think that the bottom line is that most men feel uncomfortable. Because, men are not socialized to be caregivers. Men are not socialized to be emotional. Dealing with a person with a disability, you have to embody a level of empathy.

Men are socialized differently than women. Women are socialized to not seek their own pleasure. Men are.
TR:

We’re in a very new time today, men are encouraged to seek therapy. Expressing emotions and discussing feelings isn’t as frowned upon today. Yes, there are still a bunch of proud cavemen out there, but there’s been some real progress compared generations like my own, Generation X and those before me like Boomers.

AJ:

I’ve heard so many stories about men from that generation. I just feel bad. Yes, they were mean and harsh. But then also, could you imagine, like, the weight and the unpeacefulness, , the chaos that’s in your heart and brain because you have to carry this anger. If you are a black man, you had to deal with being belittled and berated as a black man being called boy.

it’s so it’s like, not you can express that anger, though. But the only way you’re going to is because of the mask would be we thought, you know, be either put my hands on my wife, or beat my children.

D’arcee:

look at these white people trying to tell me that like critical race theory, and like horrible and terrible, and
every single time like somebody tries to tell me that like slavery was a million years ago. It’s not that big a deal. I literally turn around and say my grandfather, my dad’s dad saw men hanging in trees in Alabama when he was six years old on his way to school. That is not the Civil War.

TR:

That socialization starts as a child.
How we as a society raise our children.

D’arcee:

I saw a tweet where somebody wrote, his four year old son came to him and said Daddy, I told the girl in elementary school that I liked her. And she said, she didn’t like me back. And he was like, What do I do? And he was crying. And the dad said, well, I think you know what to do.

The sun responded and said, Yeah, I know, try and try again. The dad said, No, that is not what you do. He said, she told you what the answer is, so you respect her wishes.

TR:

Wait, what?
Isn’t that what we’ve been taught?

AJ:

I think with men and I know myself sometimes there’s been a little bit confusion, because no doubt if a woman says no, that is true.

I hear stories all the time, even in terms of the Obamas, if you listen to their story, Mrs. Obama was like the boss, over a team or whatever. But remember that she did say, she didn’t say no. But then he was like, he was so doggone persistent.

When I say that, I’m not saying you just get a free pass, just to like, be aggressive. And don’t listen to the woman.

Persistence has shown, you do land a woman if you’re persistent.

D’arcee:

Women aren’t to be landed.

AJ:

I didn’t mean it like that.

D’arcee:

And I’m not talking about you specifically, in general men typically believe that it’s a conquest. If you want to talk about the route of masculinity it’s a conquest.

AJ:

That sort of takes the whole idea and the premise of the chase.

I even heard women say, it is the man’s job to chase. I don’t want to chase the man.

They want aggressive men. I’m not talking about rape or violation, but I’m just talking about the nuance.

D’arcee:

all of this comes down to the idea of what people think of as natural, which is, men pay for dates. Women get dressed up, women look good for the man. That’s your natural. And people are starting to undo all of that.

I honestly believe that if the internet was around in our parents, most of them would not be together.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

When I say natural, though, I’m going back even further. Go back to Hunter Gatherer.

D’arcee:

Yes, it’s primal.

Every time I hear that argument, I think, but that’s American. The argument behind that comes from Adam and Eve. And the question of subservience and the idea that man said in the beginning, that he was going to lord over Eve and that she is one of his ribs.

TR:

Perhaps the behaviors are learned.

D’arcee:

we have to teach boys about the patriarchy, we have to teach boys that the entire history of the world. And the way that it runs now is built upon the desires and the whims of men.

AJ:

I would just say we can open up masculinity, to include being vulnerable, we can open up masculinity, to include expressing your feelings.

D’arcee:

So we really do need to undo this whole argument from the beginning. And I’m not saying that like, that means that oh my god, gender norms fall by the wayside. But the whole points are bullshit to begin with.

TR:

Thinking about gender norms brings me back to some of the stereotypes we discussed earlier.

In fact, we get back to the issue raised by AJ.

AJ:

I have a lot of friends ,when it comes to like dating or actually, you know, getting down with somebody. It’s a no, and I’m wondering if now it could just be my fault. It had nothing to do with disability.

For instance, I really liked this person. I would call her because I know that she was getting off work, and on her way to the train.

One time when I called her I was like,

I’m calling you, because I know you just got off work. I just wanted to talk to you while you waiting on the train? She goes, Oh, isn’t that precious? And I’m like, precious.

AJ:

I saw Tiffany Haddish in a stand up.

She was like, I started sleeping with this dude, he had a disability. She said, Don’t sleep on disability because he was really working it. Something I just appreciate it so much, because there was nothing timid about them screwing. It was like we’re having sex and I’m slapping your booty. And I’m a disabled man. And at the end, she was like, disabled people want sex too.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:
So here’s what we got to start. You said slapping your booty change that shit to slap in that ass and let’s see what happens bro. We gonna start there.

AJ:

I happen to be friends and very close with women.

A lot of women, including my friends, had been violated. And so that’s always been in the back of my mind.

I think I’m so concerned that maybe I go to the extreme, because I’m always worried about being a gentleman and making sure that women are comfortable around me.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee: 2:39:04
that starting point for you is just like whoa.

That doesn’t even need to be in your mind in terms of being someone that’s gonna assault.

You have so much room to play with because you’re nowhere near that. but it has nothing to do with in terms of your level of confidence and what you put out.

D’arcee:

AJ, people don’t call me adorable. I don’t present myself that way.

If she said oh, how precious is because she misunderstood your intent. As a person who literally studies rhetoric, that’s the work of art. rhetoric. It’s intent.

Attractiveness, they say is only half about looks. The other half of it is actually psychological. Because I know that I have been very attracted to people that are not pretty. And what makes me attracted to them? Oh my god, I love their personality.

AJ:

one time, I met this girl and let’s just say she was very energetic towards men.

She was in my drama class. It came up in conversation that I never been kissed. Okay, so she said that she would do it.

And so weeks go by and my friend just checked in and like, you haven’t kissed AJ. And she was like, oh, I don’t want to corrupt him.

And I was like, I can be corrupted!
Somebody was saying people look at me as someone that’s very gentlemanly, very nice. But I’m not typically the person they want to get down with.

D’arcee:

Even if she did, that’s not the vibe that you want to begin with.

if you want people to take you more seriously, then you kind of have to present yourself in a space.
It’s not aggression, it’s assertiveness. And there’s a difference. I think men actually find that that line is very difficult. Because people assume that they’re being assertive when they’re actually being aggressive.
It’s a hard line to learn to know.

But I would say that when it works, it works really well.

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the show Sex Education. AJ?

AJ:

yeah, I need to get caught up …

D’arcee:

You need to get to Season Two. Because Season Two and season three. There’s a character in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy that they introduce, and he’s fantastic. And yeah, he talks about this.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

D’arcee, real quick, though, because you mentioned that character. Does he come to an understanding whatever it is?

D’arcee:

He does.

— Clip from “In Living Color” “The Adventures of Handi Man”

Boy in wheel chair:
“You saved the day. The physically challenged have been needing a hero and you’re it. Thank you Handi Man”

Handi Man:

“That’s ok son. And remember , never under estimate the powers of the handicapped”

TR in conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

Has there ever been anyone or are there people out there who have sort of defined disabled masculinity or be a role model of sorts for that, coming up in life?

D’arcee:

Up until Game of Thrones, the answer to this would have been no.
Peter Dinklage changed that.

prior to Game of Thrones, he said, he told his agent don’t even bring me roles that feature little people. I’m not interested.

People frequently forget that he was a love interest in the show, Nip Tuck for a season and a half. He was a series regular. He was romancing the main character’s wife. And they were having a whole ass affair on the show. And it was juicy and scandalous.

I remember the husband and it was like, You’re cheating with him.

You want to talk about masculinity and the idea of like men, being in charge and taking charge. It’s Peter Dinklage and Game of Thrones.

He wields power and influence, in a way that most people in the show do not.

TR:

But Peter Dinklage isn’t Black

In a perfect world, that shouldn’t matter. And sorry to break this to you, we’re in a far from perfect world where race and the color of your skin matters in every aspect of life. Education, the justice system, health care and more. I didn’t create the system, I’m just seeing it for what it is.

AJ:

When I was younger and coming up, no, the only influences that I had in, in real life were able bodied men.

In terms of acting and my trajectory, I look at people like Darryl Chill. Darryl chills been holding it down. For a while. he was a stage regular, I think, for seven seasons on NCIS New Orleans. He also had his own sitcom. Here’s a brother, who’s doing his thing. And so I look up to him in terms of my career, but in my real life, to be honest, the examples of disability that I can honestly look to, in my real life that are disabled, are you Tom and D’arcee, because you’re holding it down and doing your thing.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

Okay. And you know, I never know what’s gonna make the show but that part right there is definitely gonna make the show.

TR & D’arcee share a laugh.

AJ:

Seriously, brothers don’t get enough props.

Tom has been just like a brother to me. A mentor. He’s opened up a world to me. A world that I can have access to. I’m encountering things for the first time. His doors always open and in terms of you D’arcee, I mean, look at what you’re doing, like the jobs you have. You are disabled brother, getting your PhD.

Professor Purple.

I look up to the other influences like Leroy.

TR:

Once again, Leroy Moore.

That could be the drinking game of YGBD. Take a shot when you hear his name.

What are the implications of not seeing yourself represented in the media?

It can start with one’s own imagination.

D’arcee:

When I was a child I’ve always had like, way too much of an overactive imagination, if that’s not evident to people.

My brother and I, we used to do it as children, we called the Dreamland, we would just stare at the ceiling and makeup random movies

I used to have this persona in my head. When it was a man, it was always like this person who was non disabled.

I don’t do that anymore. Something clicked in my head when I was like, 27 or 28. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, this isn’t right.

AJ:

even when I would imagine being an actor, it’s like, it was somebody else though. Like it was a different person.

I just recently made a conscious effort anytime that I imagine. No, it’s actually me. And if I’m gonna imagine being in roles I actually put myself into. So even though it was my dream, it was always somebody else.

I never discussed this with anybody else. I was doing the same thing. But I felt weird to admit that.

D’arcee:

Thomas, do you think this is weird?

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee: 3:03:58
I don’t think this is weird. In fact, I think there’s a lot of stuff in terms of the idea of visualization. And these are the books that talk about this idea that the idea of moving yourself into someone else right that Kobe Bryant used to envision himself as the snake, the mambo.

A lot of athletes do this, like become that person. I kind of see that in what you’re talking about, I think is dope.

That’s a perfect way to sort of bring this to an end.

That’s what we need, you mentioned all this stuff in terms of the media and all of that, but like, you know, we do have some control. Making content, where we’re in those roles. Maybe at first it’s on a smaller level, but showing that, that this is wanted, that people would check this out. And people are interested in this.

D’arcee:

this making me feel like I need to make an Instagram just be like, Oh, not enough black wheelchair users.

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee: 3:05:21
Do it! Professor purple, B!

D’arcee:

I just want something to exist in the world. I just keep envisioning, because I remember what it felt like. I’m trying really hard not to cry, because I remember what it felt like, when I was 12. And how horrible. It just felt like you’re just totally by yourself all the time. You just feel so isolated. And I’m like, Oh my God, if somebody could get up on Instagram, and see a black wheelchair user, with some dope ass clothes, like, Oh my God, my life would change. My life would change because little kids can see it and be like, Oh my God, that’s me. I want that haircut. I want that sweater, with that haircut and those jeans. So I can go to school next week. And look, fly, and people can stop talking shit about me to some girl and be like, You know what, actually, though? He is cute.
AJ:

if you don’t see yourself in any other ways, besides the people that love you, you feel like you do not matter. And you don’t count. You feel invisible. You feel like you don’t count. Yeh!

TR:

Not only do you count and matter, but you’re beautiful, you’re Young, Gifted, Black & Disabled!

— Airhorn

Yeah. So that’s a good place to stop. I appreciate y’all so much.

TR:

A big shout out to my O G YGBD brothers, Co-Producer, AJ Murray;

AJ:

I’m on Twitter @GotNextAJ and Facebook and Instagram it’s AJ Murray.

Professor Purple himself, D’arcee Charington Neal;

D’arcee:

I’m on Twitter @DrChairington. Dr. And then Chair, C H A I R I N G T O N

TR in Conversation with AJ/D’arcee:

Instagram coming soon.

D’arcee:

I mean I’m on Instagram I just never use it.
@DRKaiyne

Bigup The 2021 YGBD crew, Blind Girl Magic herself, Jeanetta Price, brother Lateef McCleod, sister Alika, AKA the real Toni Hickman. Special shout out to Leroy Moore (drink!). It’s not a coincidence that your name comes up so often in these discussions. Salutes to you and all those who have and continue to let it be known, Black disabled people have been and continue to be out here doing our thing!

That’s it for 2021 y’all.
Let me know how you felt about the podcast this year. Do you like the format, did you notice anything you like or don’t. I’d love to know.
We will return in the first quarter of 2022. But make sure you’re subscribed because you never know, I may drop something in the feed.

Allow me to wish you all a very happy, healthy and prosperous new year.
Audio: Reid My Mind Outro

Peace & Love Fam!

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