Reid My Mind

Music begins
THOMAS: Welcome to the Blind-Centered Audio Description Chats. These are the edited recordings of the Blind-Centered Audio Description Live Chats!
CHERYL: The live is the most fun part! We get together, we start with a question, and then we invite up anybody from the audience who wants to come and chat with us, agree, disagree, shed light on something that we hadn’t thought about before, which is Nefertiti’s favorite. [electric whoosh]
NEFERTITI: I’m Nefertiti Matos Olivares, and I’m a bilingual professional voiceover artist who specializes in audio description narration! I’m also a fervent cultural access advocate and a community organizer.
CHERYL: I’m Cheryl Green, an access artist, audio describer and captioner.
THOMAS: And I’m Thomas Reid, host and producer Reid My Mind Radio, voice artist, audio description narrator, consultant, and advocate.
[smartphone selection beeps]
CHERYL: Recording now!

NEFERTITI: Well, hello. This is Nefertiti Matos Olivares, and this is our first time that we’re doing a bit of a hybrid session and the first time we are presenting some content, sort of cross-pollinating, some work that we do with the Blind-Centered Audio Description Chat series that Cheryl Green, Thomas Reid, and I have been collectively working on for a while now, and also, the work that we do by way of the Social Audio Description Collective, or SADC, where we actually create and carefully craft, from the writing to the blind QC, the narration, the sound design, all of it, some culturally competent audio description in English and Spanish and other languages. So, if you don’t know about SADC, check us out. We are the Social Audio Description Collective. And if you don’t know about our previous offerings at the Blind-Centered Audio Description Chat series, you can check that out too by way of Thomas Reid’s Reid My Mind Radio. That’s all R to the E I D, like his last name, y’all!
THOMAS: [chuckles]
NEFERTITI: On his podcast feed as well. Wow. I am here, and I am happy to be here. And we have Thomas with us. We have Cheryl with us. We have Oliver Baker, the writer of the audio description for the two films that we will be watching and listening to today. And we have Carmen, Carmen Papalia with us.
THOMAS: So, we’re gonna show two films, and then we’re gonna talk to Carmen about the films, talk a little bit about what led into creating the films, talk a little bit about the AD, and we wanna hear from y’all too. So if there’s questions about the films that you wanna ask Carmen, you’ll have an opportunity to do that, or if you wanna ask or make a comment on the audio description, you can do that too.

Editors Note:
THOMAS: Quick note, we’re not including the audio of the film in this episode, however, you can go on over to this episode’s blog post on ReidMyMind.com and I’ll link you there.
Then come back and enjoy the conversation with both film maker and AD production team.

Ok, here we go, back to the episode!!

THOMAS: So, I think it’s time to welcome Carmen Papalia to the Zoom room.
NEFERTITI: [imitates air horn]
CARMEN: [chuckles]
THOMAS: And maybe Carmen, if you wanna introduce yourself, tell folks who you are, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
CARMEN: Yeah, for sure. It’s Carmen speaking. I’m calling in from the stolen land of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh people, colonially known as Vancouver. I’m in my room right now. I’m, yeah, I’m wearing maybe one of the same caps as in the film, a brown sort of wool cap, and a colorful button shirt with short sleeves today. I’m not sure which colors, unfortunately!
THOMAS: [chuckles]
CARMEN: Sorry. But know that they are vibrant and festive, I call myself a non-visual artist. I make mostly participatory projects. I do performance, installation. I do curating as well. And this project, Impaired, is a co-production and collaboration with my brother Antonio. And he’s not able to be here today ‘cause he’s sick, unfortunately. But yeah, it’s been a joy to work with him on this project. He’s also a macro photographer, too. So, I can talk a little bit about the work that we did with the Social Audio Description Collective around the macro photos as well. But this film series is something that we got some COVID-era grant funding for by the Canada Council. And the films were recently just in an exhibition in Zurich. It was an exhibition called Interdependencies about various forms of care. And these films were shown in a functional grow room that my brother designed and built. Well, he had help building it. The production team at the museum was amazing and was able to put everything together to our specs. It was like a replica of the grow room that we have here in Vancouver, but it was made to be wheelchair accessible for the exhibition. And it was like a presentation space for these videos and as well as my brother’s macro photos of the cannabis life cycle.
THOMAS: Very cool. Very cool. Could you talk a little bit about what led to the creation of this film?
CARMEN: Yeah, I think it was this kind of deep collaboration that me and my brother had developed just around my pain management and the growing of medicinal cannabis through Access to Cannabis Program through Health Canada. And I think it was just interesting as we were digging into this project of like, how do we set up a grow so my brother, who is low vision, can manage it? We were just doing this, I guess, problem solving, as you do when you just jump into something. How is this gonna work? And I think we wanted to show that process a bit.
But there was also this wonderful thing that happened when my brother started growing cannabis for me, too, is that we got to talk a lot more about disability and my brother’s vision loss, too. And as you saw in the film, he just recently sort of picked up a cane, and he’s still kind of like in that space of when to use it, if he should use it. And I just felt like this experience really brought us together. My family is very much involved, too, in the processing of the cannabis. So we have these trimming parties, and we’ll listen to some of the same tunes that you played today, [laughing] Thomas.
THOMAS: [laughs]
CARMEN: And order some pizza and trim cannabis together. And it just became this space for us to explore all these things that we were excited about and maybe wanted to explore, like tactility, like, how does that play into this process of growing cannabis, and yeah. My brother, he developed a photo series out of this process, too. And it was really a space for him to, you know, come back to his photo practice and make photos that he was really proud of that he could include in the show. I just think it’s just been a generative space for us that we wanted to show to others.
There was some reference to hallucinations in those videos. One of the longer-term goals is for my brother to actually breed a variety of cannabis that activates my visual hallucinations. So, I have quite vibrant and active hallucinations connected to my visual condition. Thomas hosted myself and a few artists on Reid My Mind talking about them With certain kinds of cannabis, these hallucinations are even more amplified, and they take on different characteristics! Through our research, my brother’s found there are a handful of cannabis varieties that are known hallucinogenic strains. And so, we’ve got our hands on a few of those, and we’ve grown a few. And we’ve made concentrates out of them, and I’ve kind of tested on myself. And they’re usually, you know, the ones that I really love are varieties that have a sort of psychedelic effect but also are good pain relievers.
I mentioned my pain condition. I have sickle cell anemia. So, yeah, I have a lot of pain that cannabis actually is really helpful for. And prior to transitioning onto cannabis, I was on Dilaudid. It was just a very different experience. My life was a lot different before I transitioned to cannabis. And, now for the most part, I mean, I still use Dilaudid, you know, when I’m having an intense crisis that might bring me to hospital or debilitating. But for the most part, I use cannabis and yeah, and some psilocybin as well, so, yeah.
THOMAS: Very good. You know, it’s interesting you mentioned the music at the beginning because I was looking for medicinal cannibal songs, cannabis songs. [laughs]
CARMEN: Mmhmm.
THOMAS: And I didn’t find any!
THOMAS and CARMEN: [delighted laughter]
CARMEN: I know. You don’t really hear people talking about getting medicated, do you?
THOMAS: No, you don’t!
THOMAS and CARMEN: [laugh again]
CARMEN: But yeah. I mean, there should be. Maybe there’s some awesome crip hip-hop artists that maybe can get into that.
THOMAS: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s a market.
NEFERTITI: Yeah, maybe a participant today might have something for us, maybe.
THOMAS: [chuckles] Yeah. I want you to go back a little bit because you mentioned the macro photography. Can you describe it? I have a feeling many people might not be familiar with what that is.
CARMEN: Yeah. Totally. And I’ll describe it as much as I know through the process. It’s a very technical way of capturing, well, an image. And so, what you’re doing is you’re using some lenses that give you a super zoomed-up view of what you’re taking a photo of, and it kind of turns into something else altogether at that such a zoomed-in sort of view. And so, my understanding is that you take hundreds of photos that kind of get pulled together on the computer into like a composite, basically, that is a super close view of the subject. And my brother was taking photos of the cannabis lifecycle from seed to flower.
And so, some of these, like, if you can imagine a cannabis bud, and you know that the medicinal part is the oil or resin on the bud, if you take a photo, a macro photo of that, these little blobs of oil or resin, you can see them. They’re called trichomes. And they kind of look like, and I think this was the magic of Oliver described them as like a mushroom kingdom or something. They just look like this world unto itself. So, I think my brother really wants to bring people into this subject matter, medicinal plants and mushrooms and the subjects that he’s drawn to. And he said he doesn’t want people to pressure people to see something in his images. Like, you know this pressure to see. I felt that, too, as my vision has changed over the years, especially when I’m in a medical setting. Like, “can you see this?” Like, we’re testing what you can see. My brother really wants people to have a space where they can see what they want and really make their own stories about what they’re seeing as well in his images.
THOMAS: Mm.
CARMEN: Which was, yeah, which was really lovely when we were able to collaborate with you all on the description. Because it was a very involved process where, which not involved in that it was too involved. I think it was appropriately involved because we got to have conversation, me and Antonio, about what he saw and how he would describe it. So, I’m using a screen reader. I heard Oliver’s note coming through.
THOMAS: Oh. [laughs]
CARMEN: Which was that Cheryl, it was Cheryl’s magic who, Cheryl described the trichomes as the mushrooms and the mushroom kingdom. So, just clarifying there.
THOMAS: Why did you come to SADC? Like, was there something specific? Yeah.
CARMEN: [delighted laugh] I mean, you are the superstars of audio description all in one place. So, I mean, it’s kind of hard to go anywhere else. [laughs]
NEFERTITI: High praise! Thank you.
CARMEN: I mean, I’ve known Cheryl since probably 2010 or 2011, too. And I’ve been a lover of Thomas’s work for a while. And yeah, I just thought for this production to really explore what that collaborating with you might turn into. And I thought we had a really great experience. So yeah. Thank you.
THOMAS: Cool. Cool. I didn’t mean that to sound like a softball pitch there, but.
THOMAS and CARMEN: [laugh]
NEFERTITI: No, but please take it, because it’s very true. It’s very true.
THOMAS: I will take it, but also just curious, because you and Cheryl, you all sort of met, if I’m correct, let me know, around audio description. Is that correct?
CHERYL: Carmen is the person who introduced me to audio description. One of my short films was playing. I was so proud of the captions. “Yay, I have a captioned film.” And I heard somebody whispering through my whole film. I’m very distractible, and I was like, oh, rude! What is going on here? And afterward I asked somebody who were the rude people talking through my whole film? Oh, I’m the center of the universe. Why are people whispering? That’s not the literal words I said.
CARMEN: [laughs]
CHERYL: But somebody explained to me that, well, the film didn’t have any audio description, and so somebody was whispering and describing the visuals to Carmen. And it was a face, face plant, face palm, whatever you call it. I planted my palm on my face. So that was my introduction to audio description. And then Carmen, I don’t know where you lived then, but we apparently lived on the same bus route.
CARMEN: Yeah.
CHERYL: And somebody encouraged me to walk with you to the bus stop ‘cause maybe you weren’t familiar with that neighborhood.
CARMEN: Oh, you were my way to get home. I wouldn’t know how to get home otherwise! [laughs]
CHERYL: Except that we got so lost! Even though I’d been riding that bus for ten years at that point. I get so confused sometimes. And anyway, we had a lot of laughs about getting lost. But you were so gentle and encouraging in talking about, you know, there’s a thousand points of entry to access. Pick one and start there. You were not judgmental. You enjoyed my film, I think, even though it wasn’t described.
CARMEN: Yeah, yeah. For sure.
CHERYL: So, that’s how I got started. And many years later when you started asking me to do audio description for your stuff, I was pretty blown away.
CARMEN: Aw.
THOMAS: I love that story. Cheryl, do you wanna talk a little bit about the process of describing images? The idea that Carmen and Antonio laid out about wanting folks to be able to see whatever it is they see, just real quick, I think that’s the way I think about our hallucinations as well, Carmen.
CARMEN: Mmhmm, mmhmm.
THOMAS: Just it’s really interesting. So, Cheryl, yeah. Talk about that.
CHERYL: Carmen has a wonderful technique that was developed in the Simon Fraser University Pandemic Is a Portal project, which is the phone call. So, the phone call came from this idea that, you know, if you’re trying to write an image description, imagine you’re on the phone with somebody and telling them what it is. And Carmen took that ten levels higher when we were working on that project and literally did a phone call [laughs] with, I think it was Heather.
CARMEN: Mmhmm.
CHERYL: And the two of you recorded your phone call, and you talked about not only literally what was in the picture, but your concepts and your feelings and your emotions. And you gave me that, and I transcribed it, and I used it to build the image description.
So, for the macro photo series, you and Antonio did the same thing. You recorded these calls for me, which was amazing because I didn’t know what a trichome was before. So, y’all used technical terms. And then very beautifully, you would ask Antonio a lot of questions. That’s one of the things that is so exciting to the collaboration. You would ask him to share some details, and then I did research online, learned a lot more about cannabis. And I used your phone call transcript as the basis for writing the description, so that I knew I was getting what was important to y’all, but that you let me build also whatever else I wanted to.
THOMAS: That’s pretty cool. When you think about describing an image, you would just see, oh, like the only context you have is the image. But no, you build off of other things as well. So, that’s cool. Oliver, what about you, sir? What kind of research did you have to do to get into describing cannabis? [laughs]
CHERYL: [chuckles]
OLIVER: Ah, research! I think it was just here and there. Sometimes it was just a question like, that hat that Carmen’s wearing, whether it was fleece or wool or whether I could call it a beanie or something else. And sometimes it was after the fact. Like, I guessed that in one of the opening scenes that a bud was being rolled, and the leaves were being pressed against it just to narrow it up. But it was really just some leaves and I guess some b-roll, in effect. And so, I had to change that. Not research beforehand. ‘Cause Carmen, you were doing a lot of traveling during that time, so I couldn’t be in real-time contact about any question I had necessarily.
CARMEN: Yeah, but it was that back-and-forth process that I think we fine-tuned a couple things. I really loved your all’s process, too, for getting the scripts to where they could, to narration, too.
OLIVER: Yeah, I think this was probably an unusual project in my experience in the amount of and the level of evolution that happened after I submitted my draft. One thing was that the animator, Heather Kai Smith, came into the discussion pretty late. And so, some important points that she made reached me late, and so I was making changes, I guess, mainly to the pre-show, but a little bit during the show based on that.
CARMEN: It’s not the ideal way to go about developing an audio described piece. Like, some, the footage was shot before we looped you in. The animation has to be done after the video is firmed up and complete. And, yeah, it’s just, it’s a wacky timeline, I guess, that we were working on. And we were also trying to meet the deadline of the exhibition opening and the delivery date for that exhibition in Zurich. I’m continuously apologizing ‘cause I feel like I, you need, like, double the amount of time to do this well. And I mean, it’s done amazingly, and super—
OLIVER: I think some applause is due, too, because we had a conversation with Eric that led to something that never happens, which was, he introduced a little bit of a gap. He changed the editing a little bit to accommodate just a very brief line of audio description that we wouldn’t have been able to include otherwise, to make sure that blind and low vision audience members would understand what was happening during the important scene down the steps. And if things had gone the way they usually do, and with another filmmaker, with other filmmakers, that adaptation wouldn’t have happened.
THOMAS: How much of a change was it actually, Oliver, in terms of time? Like, how much time did you actually need to make that difference?
OLIVER: I think I asked for less than a second [chuckles] in one place and a little bit more than a second in another place.
CARMEN: [laughs]

OLIVER: We had an interesting kind of negotiation about where they’d be inserted because Eric sort of cherished a particular pause for the suspense, and for him, the AD voice coming in there would’ve interfered with that. So, he put the pause somewhere else, but it worked out fine. But the interesting conversation, which kind of gets into, I don’t know, an unusual amount of gray area of audio description was everybody had a different opinion about it. The filmmaker, Eric, who wasn’t used to watching films with audio description, felt the narration was a distraction. Thomas, I think you were not distracted, and you appreciated the extra information that would’ve been provided there. And then Antonio, who is losing vision and using a cane, but not so, still new to using a cane, for him, he actually appreciated the silent pause that Eric wanted to have in there because it was not old hat to him in the same way it might’ve been to you, Thomas, as more of an expert cane user.
THOMAS: Yeah.
OLIVER: That affected where we put the narration.
THOMAS: Mm, which goes into our approach in terms of audio description and that blind-centered approach, right? Why would we tailor the AD to someone who’s not going to use AD? But it’s so funny how often that’s a big part of what we do when working with filmmakers, right? Just kind of explaining that and explaining what we mean by a blind-centered approach. And that’s a perfect example of it right there, so. Very good.
CARMEN: There was something really interesting in the making of the installation at the museum in Zurich, too. Because these films were audio described, we could watch them outside of the grow room, because even when we were outside of the installation, we could still hear the AD and watch the film, which was really nice.
THOMAS: [happy laugh] That’s access!
CARMEN: Mmhmm, mmhmm.
THOMAS: Very nice.
CARMEN: I’d be happy to answer any questions about the art stuff, but also cannabis stuff, too, and my, like, yeah, whatever you wanna know!
THOMAS: Did you go back to retraining for O&M? [laughing] Did you get any more training?
CARMEN: No. I mean, I feel like my brother can give me some pointers, but I’m pretty stuck in my ways of using the cane like I like to. [chuckles]
THOMAS: Yes. And you use a black cane. Your cane is black? Is that the one you always use?
CARMEN: I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just order them without the tape on them, and they’re graphite canes from Ambutech in Winnipeg. They have these silvery kind of joints that, yeah, hold the segments together, yeah.
THOMAS: Mmhmm. The collapsible parts there? Yeah.
CARMEN: Yeah, yes. Yeah. And a wooden handle. Yeah.
THOMAS: Gotcha. Oh, and a wooden handle. Okay. Very cool, very cool.
OLIVER: I wanna know finally, and for all time, is that cap fleece or pashmina?
THOMAS: [laughs]
OLIVER: It’s not a coarse weave wool.
CARMEN: I think it is wool. I mean, I have two of the same. This one looks more, see, this is more brushed. See, this is the alternative. I have a green hat, the same as I’m wearing right now, but green, in my hand. And it’s more soft. I think this is, yeah, more of like, finer woven than the one I’m wearing right now. But, yeah, I don’t know. [happy laugh]
OLIVER: Well, the mystery will have to be prolonged.
CARMEN: [laughs]
OLIVER: We’ll meet sometime.
CARMEN: Yes, and you could read the tag for me, or I could get someone to read the tag for me and send you!
NEFERTITI: Carmen, I value very much friendship and family and all of this, and I just really enjoyed witnessing that communication between your brother and you, navigating with your canes and talking about how you’re using little body parts to detect and to keep safe and to gather information and all of. I just think there’s something so, so beauteous about that. Whereas, people can think, oh, how sad or what have you. And I just, I was really moved by that, this idea that it’s a difficult time and yet you have your brother, your flesh and blood, right there to share in it with you and to share of yourself with him. And that’s captured through the growing that you do. And I heard you here say today that it’s become sort of a family endeavor. So, I just really wanna congratulate you and really appreciate that you chose to share that with the world.
CARMEN: Thank you. Aw, that’s really nice. My experience with the cannabis grow with my brother growing for me has been a really positive experience where I feel like I’ve really been able to claim some agency with regard to my pain management. And it’s very different than conversations that I might have in the medical setting. It’s based in our relationship. And even, you know, when we, for whatever reason, have friction, we still have the grow that we have to talk about. And too, you know, that kind of anchors us.
NEFERTITI: [chuckles] Yes!
CARMEN: I have to say, too, that, with my condition, So I have retinitis pigmentosa and then sickle cell anemia, and my brother shares the visual condition with me. My sister shares the blood condition with me. So, we have different, I have different relationships with both of my siblings. I carry both of those conditions. They each have, one of my parents who we got these from are not symptomatic. So, we really kind of have banded together in certain ways around our conditions and in really deep ways. And for years and years, until I would say 2020, my sister was the only person I really could talk to about sickle cell. I didn’t really know anybody else. And it wasn’t until I met someone through disability art that also has sickle cell and is like, “This is who I am. And this has this is my experience,” that I was really able to even explore that part of my experience. And my brother gets very, too, like, my brother gets very specific about what he’s growing for me, how it’s working for me, what kinds of things we need to change. Like, it’s a dialogue about my pain management in a very kind of this exchange that I might not have in another setting, yeah.
NEFERTITI: Yeah, it sounds very personal and literal cultivation of care. Literally, you have—
THOMAS: Nice! [laughs]
NEFERTITI: Yeah, right? I got some bars. [laughs]
THOMAS: Nice!
CARMEN: [happy laugh]
NEFERTITI: But yeah, you’re literally cultivating the care, and the cannabis is the tangible proof of that connection.
CARMEN: Right.
NEFERTITI: And it’s just beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
THOMAS: Yeah.
CARMEN: I should say, there are a lot of people who serve this role in their communities, like as a caregiver-grower for people who are pain patients or who have other chronic illnesses. And it is such an interesting relationship with others in your community. You know, you have this passion for growing and maybe even supporting them in the ways that you can through the grow. But like, you get to know them so personally because, I mean, there’s a lot of, yeah, growers grow for, say, a handful of patients, like 15, sometimes 30. But they’re getting to know these people and what they need and what works for them too. So, it really is a lovely kind of experience. Some cultivators, too, grow strains specifically for people who need what they provide. I just think that’s really wonderful. Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Yes.
THOMAS: Carmen, is that the term, “caregiver-growers”? Is that the name?
CARMEN: Yeah, yeah.
THOMAS: Okay, okay. ‘Cause I know someone who might be interested in doing something like that. Yeah, that’s very cool. Very cool.
NEFERTITI: Yeah. I’m learning so much. I don’t know about these things, so quite an education for me and I think for others. And I also think we had a hand raised, if I caught that. Susannah Mars?
SUSANNAH: Yeah. Hi, this is Susannah.
NEFERTITI: Hi!
SUSANNAH: I just felt I enjoyed it so much. And I love the juicy language that you used. I love the marshmallow tip cane. And similarly to Nefertiti, I felt that nurturance of the plants and the caring among living things is so beautiful because it really crosses between the relationships and the care and the really caring for all living things in that generous and loving way. And the relationships, I appreciated, again, like Nefertiti mentioned, the joy of your relationships and that connection that just suffuses the whole work. It’s very beautiful. I appreciated it, and Thomas, I thought your voice was just lovely mixed in, in the mix. You know, it was all just—
NEFERTITI: Always!
SUSANNAH: —beautiful.
THOMAS: Thank you, Susannah. Thank you. Appreciate it.
SUSANNAH: Thank you. Mmhmm.
NEFERTITI: Always, always. Thomas Reid elevates anything Thomas Reid touches, I just wanna say!
CARMEN: Mmhmm.
THOMAS: Aw, thank you, Nef.
NEFERTITI: Yes! Oh, this is wonderful.
THOMAS: I do wanna ask you a little bit about the ear cleansing. Can you talk about, a little bit about, you know, the way you look at sound and just think about in terms of non-visual and what the ear cleansing thing was really all about?
CARMEN: Yeah, yeah. So, when I was in my undergrad at Simon Fraser University, I took some acoustic communications classes. It’s like the university where that whole practice and field of soundscape studies emerged. In the late ‘60s, there was this thing called the World Soundscape Project, and it was a initiated by R. Murray Schafer, who I talk about in that piece. But they basically got together a handful of researchers who went out into the environment and just started recording sound and listening and developing terminology for what they were noticing. And this whole field of study kind of like, you know, we have the word “soundscape”. We have various ways of even protecting the acoustic environment from noise and sound pollution, noise pollution, sorry. And I just heard about this practice of, like, okay, let’s, it’s sort of like the focus you get when you shut your eyes and are trying to focus your non-visual senses. You just kind of plug your ears for a time, and then you unplug them. And then you are acutely aware of what sounds are where.
And I don’t know. For me, it was a process of learning how sound was spatialized. At the beginning of my vision loss, like, starting to use a cane, I would have to spend time in a room. And you know, I used to run this reading series, poetry event at this bar here called the Railway Club. And I remember just like, it was so acoustically cluttered in that space. And I would sit there, and I was like, I can’t make sense of any of this. But eventually, I just started active listening in that space, and I could, you know, voices, you know. I kind of recognized who was talking, where they were, like, what the dimensions of the space were. I kind of adopted this active listening practice through acoustic communications and these practices that whole crew around the World Soundscape Project. But I think, you know, without that tool, I would find my own way, and I, you know, I know. Sorry, I have to mention that a friend, Andy Slater, who is a blind artist, he really, he dislikes R. Murray Schafer. He’s like, oh, he should not get the spotlight. We should get the spotlight because we’ve been learning how to listen before there was a term for it.
THOMAS: When Antonio said that once he took the earplugs out, and he, it was about 30 seconds that he was looking for something new. He wanted to hear something different. And I was just like, oh, wow. That’s really interesting because there’s sort of like a rule of thumb when creating audio pieces that says, yeah, things should change every 30 seconds because folks’ interests change.
CARMEN: Hmm.
THOMAS: And so, I was like, oh, wow! Look at that. I don’t know if they’re related, [laughs] but he just so happened to be looking for something after 30 seconds, which jumped out at me. Yeah. Very cool. Anyone else have anything?
CHERYL: Go ahead, Susan!
SUE: I was very touched by the scene where your brother was describing what made the plant happy and how you could tell the plant was happy by the angle of the leaves. I have a green thumb, and I raise a lot of plants. And I once went into a car dealer to wait for my car, and the plant that was in the waiting room was very miserable and unhappy. And I went over to the receptionist, and I said, “Please help this plant. It’s very unhappy.” And she just looked at me. So, when the car was returned to me, I took the plant home and took care of it.
CARMEN: Mm!
SUE: And that one scene reminded me of all the times that I notice when plants are happy, but I never thought of touching the plant to see if it was happy.
CARMEN: Mmhmm.
SUE: I notice it by looking at it, so I’m gonna touch my plants more now.
CARMEN: That’s really nice. I love that. He is so attuned to their needs, and he spends time with them so much. And when you’re in the grow room too, you feel like you are…. They have a presence to them.
SUE: Yes.
CARMEN: And yeah, I really like that. And you were attuned to the needs of that plant when you walked into that car dealership. Which, yeah, I think it is a relationship that you have with these living things that you are growing. It’s quite amazing to, you know, like the whole process to like, you know, from seed to, like, when— They’re so fragile, too, as well. When we had our outdoor grow that there was, that was shown in the films, it was on this patio outdoors. There’s about ten plants out there. They got to over six feet tall, maybe seven feet tall eventually. And in Vancouver, you know, you plant them in April, and then they’re ready in maybe October. We had a lot of wind and rain by then, so it’s not a great place for outdoor growing. And I remember getting, because my parents were also keeping their eye on the plants sometimes, they were like, oh. I mean, I remember getting this call that it sounded like they were on a ship or something. They were like, “Oh no! These plants are gonna tip over, and we’re gonna lose them!” And so, it was, I really think it’s like damage control.
The challenge is just protecting them so they can cross the finish line by the end, ‘cause they just grow so tall. And with the weather conditions here, it’s just not ideal. But those kinds of things, I mean, of course, it really just, my brother was so affected by that! And of course, you know, you put months of care into these plants, and you want them to make it to the end. And then each of them holds like 100, sometimes more, 100 grams or more of cannabis. And yeah, if it’s not ready yet, there’s only so much you can do to make it usable. Yeah, it doesn’t get its full growth cycle.
SUE: You sound like, what you were just saying is a metaphor for raising children.
CARMEN: [chuckles]
NEFERTITI: Yeah, and I was going to say life in general, right?
SUE: Yeah.
NEFERTITI: We invest in things, and sometimes they fruit, and sometimes they rot. And you know, it’s like, yeah. I think it’s a beautiful metaphor for these things.
THOMAS: Just don’t smoke your children.
CARMEN, NEFERTITI, and THOMAS: [huge laughs]
THOMAS: Sorry, I couldn’t resist that one.
NEFERTITI: That’s a good one, Thomas. Good advice. Life hack. [laughs]
THOMAS: No, hopefully that’s not good advice!
CARMEN, NEFERTITI, and THOMAS: [still laughing]
NEFERTITI: Earlier you did say “cannibal”. I’m just saying. [laughs]
THOMAS: I know I did say that. Cool, cool. Very good.
OLIVER: I just wanna be sure to thank Carmen and Antonio in absentia for letting us, you know, SADC and with the Blind Audio Chat to premiere these cool movies. Thank you.
CARMEN: Yeah, thank you.
THOMAS: 100%. Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Can people watch these films anywhere? Are you showing them in any film festivals? Do you have plans for the future?
CARMEN: Yeah, we have a longer, we’re gonna launch our Impaired website ‘cause it’s just gonna show our progress. But they’re first gonna be available through SADC’s site, I believe.
OLIVER: Premiering and then living, for at least a while, as streamables on our website.
CARMEN: Yeah, yeah. So, super happy about that. And yeah, we’re continuing to work on, we have a show coming up, another exhibition me and my brother are in, in 2026 at the Mackenzie Art Gallery in Saskatchewan. We have all sorts of plans to do…. Well, we’re still in this long-term process of developing a hallucinogenic pain reliever, a strain of cannabis. My brother’s proposed a name for that strain, Tripping Hazard, which I kind of, I like, yeah.
NEFERTITI: Love it!
CARMEN: [laughs]
NEFERTITI: Oh, my God! I love that!
CARMEN: Yes, yeah.
NEFERTITI: Oh, I’m a sucker for a play on words. I love it.
CARMEN: If anyone shows up in Vancouver, you know, we are legal for recreational use here, and I do have some homemade concentrates that I’d love to share, especially for folks who are, who do have visual hallucinations. ‘Cause I, one of the things I’ve been loving is talking to people like Thomas and Andy and our friend Collin and others about their visual hallucinations and also how cannabis might affect them. Yeah.
THOMAS: Absolutely. Absolutely! Let me just. Hold on. I was just on Flights.com. Vancouver.
CARMEN, NEFERTITI, and THOMAS: [big laughs]
NEFERTITI: I was thinking when I was in Vancouver last year, damn it, I wish I would’ve known of you, at least, because I would’ve definitely made an effort to try and connect. But I know you now, and I work for a Vancouver company, so.
CARMEN: Cool, cool.
NEFERTITI: Yeah, I might come through.
CARMEN: For sure.
NEFERTITI: Thank you so much.
THOMAS: Bring me something back, Nef. [laughs]
NEFERTITI: You bet, Thomas. Absolutely. Well, thank you, again, Carmen, for your time, for your talent, for your knowledge. And thank you, Oliver, for being here as part of the process, Cheryl and Thomas as co-hosts and co-members of the BCAD and SADC. We have a monopoly on all these letters, y’all.
THOMAS and CARMEN: [laugh]
NEFERTITI: And yeah, do we have any final thoughts as we shut this baby down? Okay. I think that answers that.
THOMAS: Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em.
CARMEN: Thank you so much, everybody. I hope you all enjoy today, and yeah, imbibe or partake in whatever ways you feel comfortable. I do love rolling a joint, actually. Like, that’s like, I love the tactile experience of, I use these raw, they’re called raw cone wraps or something, king-size cone wraps. And I just love filling them and twisting them and yeah, just. Yeah, I guess it’s like a nice pairing to our dreary weather here, sitting on the patio in the rain [laughs] with a joint.
THOMAS: Yeah. Sounds good.
CARMEN: Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Heck yeah. That’s artistry in and of itself.
CARMEN: [laughs] Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Yeah, definitely.
OLIVER: And this has been a joint production.
THOMAS and NEFERTITI: [laugh]
NEFERTITI: Nice, Oliver! Nice. All right, everybody, thank you so much. Till next time!

THOMAS: Cool. Well, that concludes this week’s conversation. Why don’t y’all keep the conversation going on social media.
CHERYL: Use #ADFUBU, for us by us, #DescribeEverything, and #AudioDescription.
NEFERTITI: And hey, you know we’re out here, right? Mmhmm! Gathered and galvanized y’all. If you haven’t joined us yet, what are you waiting for?! You can find us in the LinkedIn Audio Description group and the AD Twitter community. We know that your participation will only make these spaces better.
Music fades out!

Hide the transcript

“Good Evening!”
Music begins: A funky break beat loop.

TR:
Tribe and trust!

Tribe and trust.

These were the two themes in the last episode with film maker Andres Jay Molina.
Well, for me at least, it was apparent that they play a big roll in the adjustment process. Not just for Jay, but in some way for us all.

When I refer to tribe, I’m talking about a community of people you identify with. Typically this includes support, encouragement and collaboration. It’s not about the number of people but rather the quality of the relationships.

Then there’s trust. First in yourself. As in having the courage and strength to live, speak and move through life in your truth. Whatever that is!

Then, trusting in others.

Even if their not a part of the tribe, which can test a person’s ability to trust.

For this final self portrait, I decided to sit with these things. Ask myself, “how do these things fit into my life today?”

Going into this episode reminds me of how I used to feel when my girls were younger and they’d sit with me in the kitchen as I prepare a dinner every now and then.

“Baby girls”, I’d say to them, ” I don’t know how this is going to turn out, but I guess we’ll see!”

And then one of my girls would say, “Daddy, you’re Blind, you can’t see! And then we’d laugh.

— TR & daughters in conversation laughing.

Take a listen to the episode featuring my girls earlier this season and you’ll definitely get an understanding of our humor and communication style.

I’m Thomas Reid and you are now rocking with Reid My Mind Radio!
— Reid My Mind Radio Intro
Andres “Jay” Molina:
When I first got to the nursing home I didn’t know anybody of course, So I was just hanging out by myself. And then one of the nurses told me, go outside, there’s people just like you, young like you, and you can talk to them.

But when I saw these guys actually, one of them looked Dominican, I’m Dominican.
And that attracted me more.
And as soon as I approached them, they just looked at me and saidcome on man you with us.
and I started hanging out with them.
And that’s when we became friends.

TR:
I wasn’t in any way alone during my early days of blindness. I had my family and some close friends. I even found another brother who I could speak with about this new experience we shared.

Yet, when I heard Jay talk about meeting the other brothers outside the nursing home, it reminded me how I wanted more of that in my early days of blindness.

Today, I believe what I wanted was acceptance and brotherhood. People in my life who really understood what I was now experiencing.
My family and others were sympathetic but sometimes you just want to be around those who you know just get it.

Details matter in relationships.

When I asked Jay for example, what was it about the group of guys hanging outside of the nursing home, that made him feel their words,

Andre Jay Molina:
Come on you’re with us.

TR:
… were true?

He was quick to say, they looked like him. They weren’t dopple gangers.
They just shared a culture and background. A Style of dress, haircuts or the way you wear your hat. It’s recognizable.

— Can’t Stop Won’t Stop, PCB Convention!

TR:
I used to serve as the Conference Coordinator for the Pennsylvania Council of the Blind.
During this one conference in Johnstown PA, a hotel employee, asks me, “Where you from? You’re not from out here.”, he says. “Are you from New York?”

That’s all she wrote. He and I started talking and as he noted, living out there in Johnstown, he was really home sick and didn’t really ever get the chance to kick it with someone in that way. It’s in the vibe. The way you say something as in more than the words. It’s understood. No explanations necessary.

For the rest of that weekend and even the next time we were in that hotel, if he saw me, he was going to stop and try to resume our conversation. I felt bad because I was busy and often couldn’t chat as much as I would have liked to. I too was missing that familiarity. I just wasn’t in the position to kick it. But I appreciated him.

There’s something funny about being away from home and finding someone else from your town that makes you immediately bond with them. I’m sure this applies to others, but I can tell you there’s definitely a New York thing that happens when we’re out of town.

I’ve been all sorts of places, thousands of miles away from home and all of a sudden, you make eye contact with someone and one of you immediately knows.. “You from New York bro?” I’ve met people who I believe if something broke out where ever we were at the time, they’d have my back just on some we’re both from NYC type of thing. But if we were in NYC, chances are we wouldn’t speak to one another.

That’s so funny! And yet awful and real.

Wehn you’re new to disability, you can feel as if you’re in a foreign land right in your own neighborhood.

The idea of recognizing home in someone is probably relateable to us all.

In that space with the Pennsylvania Council of the Blind, it took some time to feel like a part of the group. But if I’m being honest, something was missing for me that could have made that feel more like my tribe.

From the moment I attended my first conference, there were those in the group who weren’t welcoming.
That’s to be expected. I don’t think they liked me, my style or my ideas.
The fact that I was rolling with a crew of people who were either new to blindness or new to the organized blind environment.

We were also interested in having a good time and hyping ourselves up. Ok, I probably did a lot of the hyping up.
Most of the people seemed to enjoy and appreciate that but there were definitely those who turned their noses up to that sort of thing.

Even years later, after all of the work put into the organization it just wasn’t feeling like home. i chalked it up to not being from PA.

Truth is, even though I lived here for over twenty years now, I just can’t seem to claim it like that. I’m not PA.
I’m always NYC.

Don’t get me wrong, I truly love and deeply appreciate the people in PCB and what I was able to learn both from them directly and through all of the interactions and experiences.

Today, I’m older and still sort of feel a desire to find my tribe, but I now believe that there’s not one for me. Rather, there are multiple communities that fulfill me in different ways and at different times.

A disability centered space is something I find myself wanting to be around.
Not all the time, but that free flowing accesible environment like we used to create with the PCB in person conference is a great space to explore and feel what the world can be with a bit of access.

Access is just part of the story.
If you’re a person with multiple identities, inclusion means you’re able to comfortably express your full self.
You shouldn’t have to deny some aspect of who you are in order to be accepted.

For so long, there weren’t many places outside of my home and among my family, where I felt I can be my full self.

That’s not on anyone but me.

There are people I’m around today where I feel much more comfortable being myself.
Some of that is because they are accepting, but a bigger part is me.
I just care less today about what other people think.

Maybe I’m just more comfortable with who I am as a person?

This is definitely about blindness.

By the time I became Blind, I was quite secure with myself as a Black man. But sometimes I still feel as though I’m in search of my tribe. The place I can bring my full self. My Black,which includes my Puerto Rican, my Blind, Bronx, my very silly and nerdy self.

I’ve been promising my family that this is the year I grow up since forever! Forget that, I’m staying five for as long as I’m alive!

Is there a place that would welcome all of me?

Unfortunately, organizations may think they’re welcoming of everyone, but individuals that make up the organization don’t necessarily subscribe to that same idea. Even if they think they do, their actions aren’t always inline with that philosophy.

Everything is fine when it’s obvious you’re all headed to the same destination.
You’re on cruise control. Things seem to change though, when you hit an intersection. And when that is at the corner of let’s say Blind and Black for example, well the degree of openness and brother and sisterhood get’s tested. Welcoming, inclusion, diversity, all that stuff you said you are actually get’s tested.

If you’re a part of such an organization, look around and if those who you met at the intersection are gone, well, you probably failed.
Perhaps it’s time to stop saying you’re welcoming and actually become that.

As disabled people, so much of our lives are impacted by access.

The spaces we visit, the content and information we consume, the types of services we use. It all boils down to physical, digital or some other form of accessibility.

If I’m interested in participating in an event or getting involved with a non blindness organization, I have to think about and plan around accessibility. I need to be prepared to spend time working through a website or app.
Ready to take a picture of a hand out circulated during an event in order to have my phone read it.
Ask for some sort of direction in a new physical space.

Truth is most organizations like people, never consider accessibility. They never had to think about it.

Similarly,organizations with very low or no participation from Black people and others of color, may not recognize the exclusion. Or should I say non-inclusion? (Laughs)

The problem is when any of these organizations say they are inclusive but don’t take any meaningful steps to actually change.
Therefore, my Black and or my Blind are not really welcomed.

Is it really a community if my access needs aren’t being met but culturally I’m included? Can I consider myself a part of a community when all of my access needs are met, but I have to leave my culture at the door.

So it shouldn’t be a surprise that this affects my participation.

Or is that what they wanted all along?

Then they were never about community.

— DJ Scratch transition

TR:
I could imagine that some people found it strange when Jay mentioned that he and the other fellas didn’t immediately trust Jennilee Brewster.

If you recall, the group of brothers would gather outside the nursing home. Smoke a little weed. You know, just chillin’. And yes, at the time, weed wasn’t legal in New York.

Andres “Jay” Molina:
And then we had this white woman coming around asking questions. She was being really persistent.

TR:
I won’t beat around the bush here, these brothers most likely were concerned that Ms. Brewster could be a Karen.

A white lady asserting her privilege and budding into the lives and business of others, especially people of color.

You can find lots of examples of Karen’s at work on YouTube today thanks to smart phones and the ease of recording.

I’m in no way suggesting you go down that rabbit hole. It leads to all sorts of racists encounters that has an under current of possible violence. Plus watching mentally unstable people shouldn’t be entertainment.

For those who are actually named Karen, I feel for you.
But you have nothing to worry about if you’re not the type of person to racially profile people. There’s no need to be offended if you’re not the type of person to call the police on little Black children selling lemonade outside their own homes.

For Black people and others of color, these experiences aren’t knew at all. They’re just documented now.

Whether in corporate environments, schools, social settings, just about everywhere we exist, we learn to bob and weave avoiding micro agressions like a boxer dodging jabs, upper cuts and knockout blows.

No, actually, every where we exist!

— Clip of MTG attacking Rep. Jasmine Crokett in Congress.

TR:
So when jay explained that he and the rest of the brothers who would become the reality poets were leery about letting Miss Brewster into their circle, well some of us can relate.

Yet, we need each other. Jay’s story reminds us of that.

It’s an example of how opportunity often doesn’t present itself like we imagine it in our minds. It’s not as defined. It’s not flashy. The messenger rarely looks like the person we imagine or hope for.

Trust is essential.

Jay and the rest of the brothers eventually did put their trst in Ms. Brewster. It paid off. They became the Reality Poets. That not only made an impact on them personally but they’re art is doing the same for others.

What if they didn’t trust? What if they waited for an opportunity to present itself in a way that made them more comfortable?

Did Jay’s past make you uncomfortable?

I’m talking about his former occupation; drug dealer. He spent time in prison. I never asked about that part of his life. It’s in his past.

I do think about how many Black and brown people today are behind bars for selling weed. Meanwhile, now legal in many states, the Cannabis industry, overwhelmingly run by white men, has taken off. And like every other industry that forms, will be run by a few large corporations.

I think about these Black and brown men and women who when released from prison struggle to support themselves. This world doesn’t really seem to hand out second chances very equitably.

I don’t want all of these micro aggressions, systemic problems, the attacks on humanity, to change me for the worse. I want to believe in people, while still being aware. I want to be conscious and still able to trust in others.

That takes serious work!

— Break beat Transition

TR:
When should we trust ourselves?

We all have ideas that at some given time, we believe are correct and defend.

When something forces us to re-examine our perspective, we either realize our ignorance and change or become even more convinced we’re right.

When Jay talked about his reaction to seeing a wheel chair user at the bus stop knowing it was going to make him late for work, I’m sure he felt justified and would defend his position at that time. It’s a common reaction in a busy town where everyone is rushing somewhere. We want to hold someone responsible.

You ever notice how no one gets mad at the bus designers? Why the heck didn’t the bus manufacturers make it easier for those using wheelchairs to get on the bus like everyone else?

We don’t get madat ourselves for not leaving earlier and building in time for unexpected delays.

I give Jay a lot of credit for sharing that story. Any time someone shares an ableist thought or action from their past, I want to highlight it and recognize them for their honesty. I know it’s not easy.
I also think it’s something we should uplift for the sake of making space for us all to grow. I want that space for me too.
I’ve said and done things back in the day I wouldn’t do today.

I recognize and appreciate that Jay had to have a certain level of trust for me to share that story. In fact, I’ll say that about all of those who share their stories with me on the podcast.

I actually take that pretty seriously. Trust in general, is a core value of mine. I don’t do well with those who break it.

Trust needs to be earned.

Yet, we really do trust in things that can’t actually earn our trust. Wheelchairs, computers, access technology, a white cane.
All of these things can’t earn our trust. We’re believing in those who make the equipment, those who teach us how to use them and mainly ourselves and our ability.

When I once trained those new to blindness on technology, it was pretty obvious after a while who was going to adapt to the new way of getting things done.
Some would focus on how they used to do it.

“I used to just click the mouse and drag this file over to the other window”, they’d say. Yes, I know, I’d say.
I did that too, but now let me show you how you can do this today.

I hated my screen reader in the early days. I tried to convince myself that I couldn’t understand what it was saying. But it was clear that the more I complained to myself, the less I was actually getting done.

I didn’t have an alternative. My eyes were gone but my ears and ability to learn were all in tact. So either I was going to quit and do nothing or figure it out. In my mind, the pain of quitting and doing nothing feels worse than trying and not getting it. At least you can keep trying.

Then again, thinking about this now, of course I’d adapt to the technology. I’ve always been comfortable with tech.
I’m confident in my abilities, I trust myself.

In other areas of my life, I don’t feel as confident and may not be as quick to adapt.

Dang! I have to keep it real. There are times when it feels like I can’t trust or believe in others, but perhaps I’m really not trusting in myself.

My ego is telling me to strike this from the episode, wwe’ll see who wins.

— DJ Scratch Transition

TR:
There was a lot of trust involved in this Art of Adjustment season. I had no idea how I would produce the self-portrait episodes. I relied on inspiration and faith that something would come out of the conversations. That part is a given, it’s more about the trust in being able to make it work.

Whether or not it works is subjective. That’s up to you the listeneror transcript reader.

My hope is that some concept or idea discussed in one of these AOA episodes got you thinking. Perhaps encouraging you to consider how art or some form of expression can be a vehicle to assist you in your own adjustment.

The focus here on R double M Radio is adjustment to disability, but it applies to life in general.

Ah, y’all know that.
You all make connections and don’t experience things in a vacuum. That’s why I enjoy hanging with y’all!

Hey! This is my tribe! The R double M Radio family.

This podcast has helped me meet and establish relationships with people I’d otherwise never really get the chance to interact with. We share similar perspectives on a variety of topics. At least, we share the idea of being open. For me that means, open to other points of view, but not when they come at the expense of others or threaten a group’s existence. I’ll remain closed to hate, lies and deception. That’s some corny sucker stuff!

Even though this is a podcast and the communication seems like it only flows in one direction, you know it doesn’t have to always be like that.You can hit me up, ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com. Give it a try.
REIDMYMINDRADIO@GMAIL.
COM (spelled out).

How is art or some other form of expression a part of your adjustment?
Have you been delaying the pursuit of that interest?
Did any particular story resonate with you in a special way?

Let a brother know.

— DJ Scratch Transition

If you didn’t really dig these series of episodes, like it wasn’t your thing, you can blame that on me. Well, you’re probably not listening right now so I’ll move on.

If you enjoyed these episodes well give the credit to the artists themselves: Krystle, Andrew, Kiana and Jay.

It’s all their fault!

They not only shared their stories and perspectives but they inspired the thoughts and ideas that came to be the self portrait episodes. That inspiration is a result of our actual conversations, they’re work, interests and experiences.

I hope it proved to do the same for you.

The process of producing it alone in my mind is the win for me. Like I said earlier… ” I don’t know how this is going to turn out, but I guess we’ll see!”

I’m off to continue working on the next season. That means you won’t hear from me until July. Or August, there’s a lot going on.

We do have a Blind Centered Audio Description Chat episode dropping in June. So stay tuned for that.

Also, if you’re interested in some free audio described content head on over to ReidMyMind.com. I’ll link you to a YouTube playlist of the
2024 Easterseals Disability Film Challenge Finalists. Audio description provided by Social Audio Description Collective!

— Airhorn

The best way to stay informed,is to follow or subscribe to Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.

There’s lots of ways to get there:
Maybe you open your favorite browser and type, some of y’all like to dictate…
however you do it, you got to spell it right

Say it with me; that’s R to the E, I D.
— Sample: “D… and that’s me in the place to be! Slick Rick

Like my last name.

–Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

— Sounds of Thunder storm transitions into a birdsong filled spring day!
TR:
I’m fortunate to live in a place where I’m greeted each morning, during three seasons, by happy bird songs.

There’s this one bird, I think he’s responsible for making the daily announcements to all of the birds in the neighborhood. I’m dead serious.

Growing up in the Bronx, we had pigeons and those little brown birds that bounce. Some of y’all know what I’m talking about.
What are those birds? Are they babies? I don’t think they’re baby pigeons.
Are they orphans? I never saw them with their parents.

Obviously, I admit, I don’t know much about birds, but since moving out to the Poconos, I’ve become a fan.

there’s this one bird, I’ll call him the bird caster.
I first hear him in the morning around 5 AM in the back of my house. He’s calling out to the others. It’s not a song. It sounds more like a message.

— A fluttering high pitch voice
“Good morning everyone! Today’s announcements: First, to all the youngsters, class will begin at 8 AM sharp! The weather today, partly sunny, but be prepared it feels as though a front is moving in from the west.”

This is not a direct translation, but I’m telling you, bird caster is making announcements.

Next thing you know, he’s off, repeating the process on the east side of the house.
Flying around the neighborhood, spreading the daily word, that appears to be bird casters role; delivering messages.

— Sounds of birdcaster in the back repeating his message.

My wife doesn’t like birdcaster.
She’s not a morning person.
That’s more my thing!

I respect birdcaster. He has a function and seems to take it pretty seriously. Based on my unscientific research, outside of rainy mornings, birdcaster is out there doing his thing.

It’s spring y’all, I’m waiting on birdcaster and the rest of his crew to return.

Since we’re in this Art of Adjustment season, I’ll take a queue from nature and deliver a bit of a message.

I know there are lots of our brothers and sisters out there who because of disability, feel as though they’re currently in a season of wait.
But, you’re actually in a season of prepare.

This down time that you’re feeling, is perfect for rehab, retraining, for formal or informal education.
Maybe it’s trying something new, something that’s always been of interest.
As much as possible, consider focusing your energy on you and really dive in and use the season.

Remember, a little movement in some direction is the beginning of momentum.

— Pause

I just made that shit up! (Laughing) I’m Thomas Reid host and producer of Reid My Mind Radio. baby! Let’s go!

— : Reid My Mind Theme Music

— Caribbean soundscape (beach, calypso music maybe outside bar)

TR:
In this episode we move forward with my continuous self-portrait, where I explore my adjustment experience based on aspects of conversations with my guests.

While it didn’t make it into the final edit, my actual conversation with Kiana Glanton featured in the last episode, began with her love of Carnival.

I’m not talking about the traveling amusement parks with rickety roller coasters, stuffed animal prizes and funnel cake.
— In a filtered voice; mm…. funnel cake!

I’m talking about Caribbean Carnival.

— Sounds of ocean waves and a steel drum lead calypso music.

The origin of Carnival dates back to Egypt. That’s in Africa y’all!
It was then adopted by Greeks, Romans and Europeans. But what we know as Carnival today has it’s roots in the Caribbean islands where former enslaved Africans celebrated their freedom and more.
It takes place around the world in various forms.

My only experience of Carnival is the West Indian Labor Day Parade on Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn.

— Sounds from the West Indian Parade in Brooklyn!

Kiana:
My favorite carnival hands down is Barbados Crop Over, where it’s the end of the summer season would really literally the crops are over in the whole island celebrates with the parade and parties and festivals and competitions for Soca and Calypso.

For me that down home, very connected, very communal experience came from Barbados.

TR:
It just so happens, when Kiana and I were discussing Carnival, I recently confirmed that my paternal grand father was Jamaican.
I’ve always thought this was the case, but never confirmed.

My mother was from Puerto Rico and I’ve always felt a certain attraction to the Caribbean.
Like I want to move their at least part time the way folks winter in Florida.
No disrespect to my brothers and sisters in Florida, but y’all got to get rid of that governor and the incredible anti blackness.
Yes, it’s everywhere but woof!

Kiana:
The moment I stepped foot in Barbados, I felt like I was home there was this very Africanist.
This very kindred kind of connection that happened the moment that I got there, that I felt like I had been there before, or that I was home.

I was just like yo, , I could live here.
I feel so welcomed.
And I think it is the inherent African spirit, honestly, that like, makes you feel at home.

— Music begins: A up beat percussion heavy African Soca inspired rhythm beat.

TR:
My genealogy isn’t the focus of these episodes.
This is about the art of adjusting, which like these self-portrait episodes is a continuous process

Kiana:
I have not figured out how to participate as a visually impaired person simply yet, because there are safety issues, you have 1000s of people drinking, you have trucks that are moving.
This could be an incredibly day and then your own streets that are not like the streets in the US these are Caribbean streets that have had hurricanes, and everything.
The infrastructure is really different. So it’s not the safest thing to cane, I would say safely behind drunk people and behind the truck. So I have not figured out how to reengage in carnival just yet, but I’m determined that I will return at some point.

TR:
It goes beyond just navigating.
So much of the Carnival environment is visual, but it’s also about community, food and drink.

My first thought is why not experience the Carnival from within as part of a float.
I’m often more interested in being a part of the production. Creation over consumption. Unless we’re in the kitchen, consumption is my preference.

I know there are some out there who hear my approach and may feel it’s limiting.
Thomas, come on man, you can use your white cane and get around if you try.
They’re not wrong. But, if you ever been in such a crowd of people all enthralled by what’s going on around them,
plus add in the rum and other libations, I just don’t know if that’s a battle I personally want to take on. You can, if that’s your desire! You better have some back up canes.

My agenda is more about enjoying the Soca and Calypso music. Sipping on my refreshing rum punch or some Ray & Nephew,
and ultimately reveling in the festivities. But if you want to use that time to gain an O&M Grand Master badge, I support your right to go for it!

I also support disabled people, using our voices to challenge society in different ways. Rather than us conforming to what so called able bodied people deem as…

–Music Ends.

“normal”, why not purposefully enter these spaces with the intention of making them accessible, comfortable environments for us too?

# Working within Blindness

TR in Conversation with Kiana:
I’m curious.
There’s a conversation in the community about whether or not people should be involved in the blindness field.
There’s this idea that oh, some people go in there because it’s easy.
Some people think that that’s a cop out, Oh, you shouldn’t go into the blindness field, you should go out into the workplace and do other things that have nothing to do with your blindness.
.
Have you heard that conversation? What do you think about it?

Kiana:
My thought is this.
You do not get to tell me how to live my life and how to be successful how to be great at being a blind or low vision person.
How do you know that this is the most effective? How do you know that this makes the most sense?

TR:
So much of the philosophy around blindness is based on the idea of being independent. I truly believe in being independent. However, conforming to society for the sake of appearing independent and not in need of any “special” help, well that just let’s society go unchallenged.

Think about it, the NFB from my understanding, advocated against Accessible Pedestrian Signals. This technology was considered an insult to Blind people and our ability to safely cross streets.
Similarly, folks felt the same about audio description and our ability to consume visual content.

“We don’t need no special help”

Meanwhile, the only thing that’s so called special is the way we access the information that’s already there being used or consumed by those who are not Blind. You know, the normals!

I’m getting some real internal ableism vibes from this.

Plus, it feels selfish AF!

Kiana:
Just because you and I are on this side of being able to talk about it without breaking down or punching a wall or being in distress and deep depression doesn’t mean that somebody else isn’t coming straight off of that.

I know what it felt like learning how to cross the street in tears, holding my baby’s hand and she was three and I was blindfolded.
Learning how to use this cane.
I know what it felt like thinking, how am I going to braid her hair? What if she swallows a penny? How am I going to get help? How am I going even know she’s in distress, all this fear And worry.

TR:
Over the years of producing this podcast, that’s been the struggle for me. Admitting the challenge of blindness,
while espousing our abilities, independence and sending a positive message. Making people aware that blindness by itself isn’t limiting, rather it’s the restrictions and limitations established by society .
It’s the barriers society puts in our way that requires overcoming, not our blindness.

Kiana:
Imagine how powerful that is, when we help our community.

Somebody sat with me and told me it was gonna be okay, that it wasn’t gonna be easy, but it is possible. And once you start to organize your world in your mind, and restructure how you think about what success is, then anything is possible in having a functional, happy existence. One of independence and a purpose is possible.

TR:
Let’s be real, hearing that from someone who has been through it is so much more powerful than getting that same message from a non disabled person.

Kiana:
So to the people who encourage you to go out into the world, go for it if you want to.
That’s your thing.
But I feel purposeful in this field.

TR:
As someone producing content specifically for and about disability, some have tried to encourage me to move beyond disability and seek out opportunities to create audio for and about mainstream topics.
I could. But those who make these suggestions never asked me what I wanted. They assumed I was only doing this disability related stuff as a means to something larger, something better, something not disabled. But I don’t see non disabled or bigger as better. Especially when we think about impact.

We have power, even in small numbers

I’m reminded of Kiana and her friends starting what they call the Rescue Experience. They understand that meaningful impact doesn’t necessarily require grand gestures or large amounts of money.

Kiana:
Donating money to a woman who needs to buy coats for her children, or getting her hair done.
Or sending someone we know who’s overworked and tired to a hotel for the night with dinner, and a spa the next day.
People who just needed a little bit of help, who was doing the work, but just use a little bit of support.

TR:
Isn’t that all of us at some point in our life?

I know some want you to believe they did it all by themselves. Holding tight to the idea that their own success was fully based on their individual work. The same folks who won’t acknowledge that perhaps they had advantages that others do not. Access to well funded schools, technology and people.

When we realize we all need a bit of support, maybe we’ll be more inclined to extend that to others as wel.

— Music begins: A traditional sounding slow, smooth Reggae Riddim!

# Audio Described Carnival
TR:
Back to that idea of claiming our own space within existing environments.

When I think about Kiana’s desire to once again enjoy the Caribbean Carnival experience, I have to ask, why not create our own space?
Yes, we advocate for our inclusion in various spaces and places and that’s fine.
But right now, I’m thinking more like the bum rush and less like asking. When I say the bum rush, I’m not referring to the original term where
a crowd of people just rush the door and get into an otherwise restricted area.

— Pause

Well, maybe I am, just not in a violent way.

What happens when we as disabled people worked together to assertively take over sections of these spaces and make them work for us? Obviously, you can’t just go into an existing theater and start building ramps and taring down walls , but we could collectively find a space along the route of a Carnival and create an accessible environment for us. Sort of on that “yeh, we’re here, what up?”

Are there disabled brothers and sisters in the Caribbean who are already doing this? I’m not trying to be the Christopher Columbus and think I discovered something already there. If it doesn’t exist, is this of interest to those living in the Caribbean? I’m pretty sure others like Kiana would be interested in traveling to the islands and accessibly immersing themselves in the Carnival experience.

So let me ask you. Who would be up for an Accessible, audio described Carnival experience? I’m talking about a space within the space designed and made for us!

Picture it.

A designated accessible area along the Carnival route, packed with food and drink (refreshing rum punch) and water, you got to have your water….

— In a filtered voice: Bruh! you’re a man of a certain age now, don’t forget a nearby bathroom

True!
All with live audio description.

— In a filtered voice: Not the bathroom!

Are there any Caribbean describers in the Reid My Mind Radio Family? Seriously, who in the family would be down to experience Carnival with AD?

— Music ends.

Hit me up, ReidMyMindRadio at Gmail.com.

# Close

— Music begins: A bright, mid tempo groove.

TR:
When I thought about this Art of Adjustment season, specifically , giving more thought to aspects of the conversations I have with my guests, I didn’t realize where it could go.
There’s something about it that feels natural. Taking the time to sit with the thoughts and ideas feels really important and necessary.

In the episode featuring Kiana, she spoke about her praying for opportunity. She acknowledged that now she finds herself really busy because her prayers are being answered.
These self portrait episodes for me are a way to slow down. I’m appreciating the time, sitting with these conversations, letting them breathe a bit. It’s an opportunity to spark or reignite ideas and explore them and see where they lead.

Sharing these conversations makes me feel a little like my friend birdcaster.

— In the high pitch fluttering voice: “What up baby!”

There are multiple messages for whoever wants or needs it at a given time. If you too choose to share, that extends the reach of one conversation originally between to people.

Before I fly away, let me remind you to make sure you rock with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
And no matter what season, winter spring summer or fall or if you’re like Babyface who only believes in two seasons;
you can find me by spelling the name the right way.
;
that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample: (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick
” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What is your politics around disability?

Raven:
I think most people who have disabilities should be put on an island.

Riana:
Silly Laughter

Raven:
Away from us normal people! (Laughs)

Riana:
Girl! I agree. (Laughter continues….)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Ok, this is the way I’m going to open the show.

Raven:
)Loud laughter)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Nobody’s gonna know you’re playing.

Riana:
My sister’s opinions do not …

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Loud Laughter)

Raven:
Hey! I thought we were in this together.

(Group laughing fades out!)

TR:
Maybe not an island.
But let’s say Andrew Leland’s country of the Blind were indeed a real place, what would be the requirements for citizenship?
Is it based solely on acuity or must you have additional qualifications?
What would be some of those qualifications?
What actually makes you Blind?

Visual Accuity?
Orientation and mobility skills?
What if you have multiple disabilities?

These questions, well sort of, have been on my mind ever since my conversation with Andrew, featured in the last episode. the actual questions I’ve been thinking about are more related to topics like ableism, and what categorizes something as disability art or a part of disability culture.

Today, continuing with my self portrait, I’ll see where these topics take me. That is, with the help of those two you heard at the top of this episode.

Riana:
My name is Riana Reid. I’m a 26 year old woman. I’m brown skin. I wear rectangular glasses. I currently have my hair and a pineapple meaning My curls are on the top of my head and like a ponytail. I have a bright smile. And high cheekbones, kinda. (giggles)
People tell me I look like my mommy. (Giggles)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
You look like your father.

Riana:
(Giggles) Okay!

Raven:
Riana’s pronouns are she her hers.

Hi, everyone. My name is Raven. I’m a 20 year old woman. I have dark skin and big curly fluffy hair with almond shaped eyes and big smile and my pronouns are she her hers.

TR:
I’m Thomas Reid. If this by chance is your first time listening, I’m the host and producer of this here podcast. And more importantly, I’m the father of these two young ladies.
That’s right, Daddy Daughter Day in full effect! Let’s go!

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
During my conversation with Andrew, we got into a discussion about what categorizes something disability culture. What makes someone a disabled artist.

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 56:24
If they’re in the mainstream, I don’t consider that disability culture. That’s just me.
Are they making the art from a disability perspective? I think that’s the way I draw that line.

Andrew: 56:57
My book is a mainstream book, it’s with a commercial publisher.

I don’t want to put you on the spot. But like, does that mean that what I’m doing is not from a disability perspective?

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 57:08
No.

When you mentioned the blind music artists, like, everybody knows Stevie.

to me, it’s a little different.

Andrew: 57:28
It’s interesting, he has like an album called Talking Book.

He’s not singing about blindness in every song.

It’s kind of a bigger question about identity.
Does your work fall under the category of the identity just by virtue of your having the identity?
Or does the work have to be about the identity for it to be included?
I think it’s kind of a spectrum.

TR:
Before we get to the question of what categorizes something as disability art specifically, let’s talk about identity.

A few years ago, I submitted Reid My Mind Radio to a Black podcast collective. They were looking for Black podcasts to amplify. Based on the fact that I never received a response, I assumed my podcast wasn’t Black enough for them.

But I’m Black!

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
How do you define black?

Raven:
From African descent?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Okay.

Riana:
There are some people who have some African descent and are not Black. Clarence Thomas, I guess he black technically? Well, he probably (Said in a deep mimicking voice ) “I’m not black I’m dark complexion. I’m the same race as my wife.”

Raven:
We had a speaker in this club that I was in. And I just remember her saying that she doesn’t use the term black anymore because someone found it offensive and she’s African American. And I don’t know if I lost my mind in the moment. But every time I think about it, I lose my mind. Black people are all around the world. And I think whoever said she was offended by the term Black has her own personal issue.

Riana:
At the friggin schools, they’re always like Black or African American. I’m like this school district is blessed with such a beautiful black diaspora. Half these kids do not identify as African American, but they definitely black.

Raven:
I’ve had friends before be like, Oh, I’m not black then because I’m not African American. I’m like girl.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Cause they’re from the Caribbean…

Raven:
That’s what they’re taught.

TR:
Could I have been rejected from that Black podcast network because I’m Blind?
Stevie’s Blind, Ray was Blind and they’re Black!

— Do the Right Thing on He’s Black but he’s not Black!
Mookie (Spike Lee):
Can I talk to you for a second?

Pino: ():
What?

Mookie:
Pino, who’s your favorite basketball player?

Pino:
Magic Johnson.

Who’s your favorite movie star?

Pino:
Eddie Murphy.

… Magic, Eddie Murphy, Prince, there not Black. I mean….
Let me explain myself. They’re not really Black, I mean they’re Black but they’re not really Black. They’re more than Black. It’s different.

Mookie:
It’s different?

Pino:
Yeh, to me it’s different.
End of Clip

TR:
When I listen back to this podcast, I think it sounds Black. Not just because I’m on it, not because of the music beds or the references throughout that I know those who know, know. It’s a vibe that is in everything I do.

Police see me as Black.
My teachers and authority figures saw me as Black.
But then again, if your perception of Black is based in stereotypes then ok, maybe my podcast and I don’t fit.

But, I’m Blac!

— Song “I’m Black” from the Parody film CB4

Andrew: 58:30
So there’s a writer named Jim Knipfel who wrote the first book about blindness I ever read, which is a RP memoir called slack jaw that came out in the 90s. He and I have become friends. He’s sort of like a blind writing mentor for me. One day, he paid me a really big compliment, he was like, Andrew, be a writer, don’t be a blind writer, you’re too good of a writer to be a blind writer.
And it was a compliment, but it was also like I’m kind of psyched to be a blind writer.

TR:
Without knowing the exact intent behind that message, it reminds me of someone telling me I don’t look or act Blind. Which is actually less about me and more about someone’s perception of Blind.

Andrew:
John Lee Clark, the deaf blind poet, he had an interview in Word Gathering, the disability arts journal, where he kind of said the opposite. He was like, don’t hide it. That’s a perspective that is going to set your work apart. It’s a perspective to really draw from, I want to write everything from a deafblind perspective.

I kind of feel the tug of both of those approaches to being an artist.

TR:
Could it be more about who is doing the defining?

Andrew:
I was getting a ride from a friend of mine, honestly at the end of the ride, I was like, why are you a friend of mine?

He said to me, in no uncertain terms, so now that you’ve written this book, you got to know your audience, people really respond to hearing the story of you losing your vision, that’s what you need to write now. Just stay in your lane basically.

Write another book that’s about losing more vision. I was like you knew about my career that I had before I wrote this book now all you can see is blindness and like this kind of emotional aspect of vision loss that you see as the moneymaker.

I think that’s what Jim meant by being a blind writer, as opposed to just being a writer. People could only understand you through this experience. And so to me, that’s the pitfall. That’s, that’s where I agree with Jim. But then the next book, I want to write, it doesn’t even have to be about vision loss, but it can be sort of, from a blind perspective. And using blindness in that way that I find really positive.

TR in Conversation with Andrew: 1:00:45
Yeah, I totally get it. It’s how you’re being perceived as one way, and how you present yourself.
Sometimes it doesn’t seem to even matter, you’re being pigeon holed, which is not your goal.
When I started podcasts, I had this whole thing, I don’t have to do everything about blindness.
That wasn’t my intention. But along the way, I was like, wow, there’s nothing wrong with me doing things about blindness and then it broadened out to disability in general, I like this. And I can talk about everything and anything within the disability community or from a disability perspective.
I’m making that decision, it’s not someone putting that on me. But at the same time, when someone wants to limit me and say, This is the only thing you can do, that’s what I have a problem with. Because I can do whatever the hell I want to do!

Andrew: 1:02:37
That’s the question that I’ve been wrestling with really through the whole process of writing the book and figuring out my own identity as a blind person.

Is it supposed to be central? Or is it supposed to be incidental? When is it Central? When is it incidental?

Raven:
You know what blows my mind.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What?

Raven:
When I don’t mention that you’re blind? And it’s like, (Mimicking voice)”Oh my God, how did I not know? Why didn’t you tell me, oh my we’ve been friends for so long, you didn’t tell me.”
(Laughter)

What’s it gonna come up for?
“Yeah, my Dad didn’t see today!”
(Laughter)
What the hell do you want me to talk about?
(Laughter)
I don’t know!

Riana:
it’s the same thing with me. They’re always like, shocked that I didn’t share and I said why would I

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I mean you can understand why people would find that….

Raven:
Not really.

Riana:
No! They think it’s like me sharing like a like a trauma

Raven:
exactly! That’s what it feels like.

Riana:
(Mimicking) “Why didn’t you tell me?”
And that’s weird.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
If you go back everything that you learn about disability in the in the world and how it’s perceived and all of that stuff, it makes sense that people will respond like that.

Raven:
Yeah but it’s stupid!

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
It is stupid. (Laughs)

Riana:
And I also don’t like it sometimes because especially older generations if I tell someone that my father is blind, probably because it contributed to a conversation. They’re like, Oh, I’m so sorry.

Raven:
You knock his eyes out?

TR:
When it comes to being Black or Blind, I never had a choice.
I’m totally Blind. No eyes Blind! Like, I can win a Blind contest

— Timpani Drum roll “And the winner is”

TR:
Years ago my intention was to bridge this gap between the Blind community and others. It feels like a natural thing to consider especially as someone becoming Blind as an adult.

Today, considering all of my identities, I’m just not interested in trying to convince others to se my humanity.
I want to live a life with others who choose to recognize and appreciate people as they are in full.
I want to be seen with all of my identities not just those we happen to share. I want to do the same for others.

On the question of what makes something a part of disability culture, I think it’s about intention.
Who is the art made for?

I think disabled artist create for disabled people. Of course, others can appreciate, find inspiration in and interpret based on their own lived experiences, it’s art. But, in my mind and my interpretation, it was made for us.

— “Hold Up!” (Nate Dogg Sample)
Music begins: A crescendo leads into a bouncy up tempo beat!

TR:
Hey y’all! Quick update.
Shout out to all of the R double M Radio family out there who continue to put in that work.

Justice Shorter, who joined us during our Young Gifted Black and Disabled2022 season, along with SeededGround, recently launched the Disaster Justice Guide Book

“This guidebook is a collection of disaster-oriented lessons, lived experiences and learned expertise concerning people of color with disabilities. Based on six interviews conducted during the summer of 2023, each section is curated using the contributions of profoundly insightful individuals of color who are all well-versed in their respective areas of focus.”

You can find the downloadable guidebook along with accompanying interviews at JusticeShorter.com.

Big shout out to Ajani AJ Murray who launched his podcast Acting Up with AJ & Crew.

The podcast focuses on disability and pop culture. From movie analysis and reviews to some of the latest media happenings in the disability community, AJ’s got you covered.

I’ll link to both of these in this episode’s blog post over at ReidMyMind.com.

And now, back to the episode!

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What is ableism?

Raven:
Ableism

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Laughs)

Raven:
(Spelling out the word) A B L… (Laughs)

Riana:
ableism to me is pretty much society today where it’s just it’s set up for able bodied people with the lack of acknowledgement for people with disabilities,
I guess that’s discrimination.

Raven:
I feel like a lot of the isms and all of that come from just the belief that there’s a normal like boy and girl that and if you stripped from that in any way you need to be fixed. In terms of disabilities to I think that’s what the feeling bad comes from because they’re not living the normal life that we deemed as a society as good and easy. Even though you can live happily with whatever cards you’re dealt.

Riana:
Yeah, we just need to adjust society

Raven:
Yeah!

Riana:
… to be more inclusive.

TR:
I can’t recall hearing the word ableism prior to becoming Blind.
In fact, it wasn’t until I eventually began reading about disability in general that I came across this word and concept.
That is, the discrimination of and social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that
typical abilities are superior.
It defines people by their disability and is applicable both to an individual and system.

Like my girls said, society views disability as something requiring fixing.
It’s evident throughout our culture. Art, politics, religion.

Andrew: 52:10
The refrain that the poem says over and over again, is fall to your knees. And thank God for your eyesight.

TR:
This poem Andrew refers to in his book, was read during a service in a synagogue.

Andrew:
You just sort of have to sit there with your family, as a whole room of people just sort of appreciates that they aren’t blind.
It was kind of wild to me that Lily was offended or found it annoying and it wasn’t just me.

— Theme from Love boat!

TR:
My family and I were on a cruise taking in one of the family friendly comedy shows held in one of the ship’s smaller theaters. It’s still amazing how incredibly large these ships are. But they still get tossed around during stormy weather.

When attending any sort of comedy show, I specifically do not sit in the front row. I don’t want to be visible to the comedian. I’m there to be entertained, not part of the entertainment.

— Music begins: A dark, menacing violin repeats over a mid tempo beat.

We weren’t in the front row but it wasn’t a large theater and I was sitting in the aisle seat.

There was this one “comedian”, I say that in quotes because there wasn’t much about his comedy at all that was funny.
I could tell he was pacing from one side of the stage to the other.
He then stopped in front of the aisle that I was sitting in. He took a few moments and then walked back off to the right side of the stage.
I could just feel it, a Blind joke was coming.

It did. And it sucked!

He was struggling to make something up on the fly. It was some corny, basic joke that involved Stevie, probably the most famous Blind person on the planet. In fact, I didn’t even tell you which Stevie and you know who I’m talking about.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Anyway, do y’all remember that? Do you have any recollection of that?

Raven:
I have about 10% recollection. And I am afraid that 9% of it is because you’ve told me the story three times this week.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
(Laughs)

Riana:
Literally the only thing I remember is daddy’s story. I don’t remember that happening at all.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Really, y’all don’t remember that?

Raven:
Kind of?

Riana:
You’re saying that he saw you in the audience. And then he made a joke because he made the assumption you were blind.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
I’m telling you. It was like there was an energy thing something was going on. But it was like, it was as though we were making eye contact.

Raven:
Maybe you had a dream.

TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
Oh my god! )Said incredulously)

Raven:
(Laughs)
TR in Conversation with Riana and Raven:
It’s like, you know when you just go somewhere and you just want to be. You know what I’m saying? You just kind of want to just do your thing. You don’t necessarily need to interact. You just want to be there.

Riana:
definitely every day. I can see what Daddy is saying. When we go out, he has his cane or if you’re holding on to somebody’s arm people are going to look especially when Daddy had his eyepatch. Everybody was staring there was no just being like blending in the crowd. We stood out for sure.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Sometimes as a family we don’t necessarily always get that and that was one of those times for me that we don’t get to just be

Raven:
(Sympathetically) Augh!

Riana:
Does mommy remember that?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
She did. She remembers it like I remember it she just says it was a different cruise which I don’t care that’s fine. And it was just it was a weird thing

Raven:
I remember a comedian saying a Blind joke and it not being funny on a cruise.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
This was that guy! (Mumbling incredulously)
Laughter

Raven:
But I don’t know what you want me to tell you.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Did it make you feel any sort of way?

Raven:
I was probably very upset, annoyed.
But you have similar experiences that are all the same thing.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Again, we talked about it goes into that just being, okay, we’re just hear we just want to have a good time like everybody and then all of a sudden, boop! Spotlight! You see what I’m saying. And not the good spotlight where you know I’m rocking the crowd “hey what’s going on” (finger snaps… “Uh, Uh!” as if dancing)

(Silence….)
Hello?

Riana:
Laughs….

Raven:
That makes me sad.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Why does it make you sad?

Raven:
Because I don’t want you to think that it’s like, hard to go out and be a family, with your family?

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
No, no, no, I’m not I’m not saying that. I’m saying it’s nothing that we do wrong, it’s not our fault. My thing is that I want to know how it impacts you or do you all recognize that and I know you do now, Riana has come a long way in terms of it doesn’t you know, she knows what it is, it doesn’t bother her. So I really feel like she’s gonna be better for that. She’s a better person…

Raven:
What? (Giggles) I thought you meant better than me.

TR In Conversation with Riana & Raven:
No, no, no! (Laughs)
I’m just saying like, she’s gonna be better for that. And I think the same is true for you. At the end of the day, we’re just goin’ do are thing!

Raven:.
That’s always been my thing.

TR:
And that’s exactly what we were doing during that trip and in that theater.

The rest of the audience around me, I could sense was aware of my presence, they seem to be looking for my reaction.

— Music stops.

In this case, there was none. Because I didn’t find it funny.
I don’t think they did either.
Although I’ll never know if that’s because they are aware of me being there or if as in this case, the joke just isn’t funny.

But, that uncomfort felt by the non Blind folks, a reluctance to laugh as they await my reaction as though if I find it funny absolves them of the “sin” of laughing at a blind joke…

— (An evil, menacing laugh….) “That actually is, (coughing) pretty funny!”, The Joker.

TR:
I was extremely aware of racial discrimination at a very young age.
But, I knew nothing about ableism.
I know I didn’t harbor any sort of hatred toward disabled people. I didn’t have an ableist bone in my body! (Sarcastic giggle)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Do you ever notice any of your own internal ableism?

Raven:
Yeah,

Riana:
For sure.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I know, Raven should be really good.
(They all laugh)

Raven’s like, “And, what’s the problem!” (Laughs)

Raven:
I think I noticed more of internal ableism with more intellectual disabilities because I’ve been exposed to it less.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
that affects you in a certain way? Is that what you’re saying?

Raven:
Yeah.(Pause)
Riana didn’t give any…

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I’m going back. This was all about an intervention for you. (Laughs)

Raven:
That’s what it feels like. (Laughing)

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
I remember growing up, it felt like when you saw someone with a disability, you were supposed to feel bad. And sorry, and sad. Right.
The tel-a -thons. Y’all don’t know about the tel-a-thons.

Riana:
I don’t feel bad at all.

Raven:
We do know about the tel-a-thons.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Oh, ok! That was a thing.

Raven:
Did you hear Riana?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
What she say.

Raven:
(Overly sarcastic and in vocal fry) “I don’t feel bad at all”

(They all laugh)

Riana:
I don’t. The only time I do is if like, if they’re not being accommodated.

Raven:
Yeh, yeh!

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Riana, , what about you anything around the internal ableism?

Raven:
Yeh, anything for you? (Laughs)

Riana:
Right now I see like ableism in the way that like I approach, neurodevelopmental disabilities or disorders. Sometimes I need to remind myself that we don’t need to, like, fix it. But especially with like a kid with like ADHD, because you get into this mindset, especially at the school, and I’m definitely not going to name drop that school, but they’re very ableist, in the sense of every behavior needs to be addressed. And they have to display the behavior in a certain way. And that’s where I see myself, making sure that I step back and be like, we don’t need to change this child. The curriculum needs to be adapted towards it. And school psych is pushing towards that message anyway. But I see myself being like, (Mocking voice that sounds a lot like Elvis Presley impression, LOL)
oh, yeah, we gotta do this and check in check out, behavioral modification…

(TR and Raven laugh hysterically)
Riana:
For real, I see it. Or like a kid with autism, we were just doing like, trying to figure out an intervention for them. And I just had to sit back and be like, Okay, we’re not trying to fix this child. We’re not going to try to change this child.

TR:
Another message around disability was, inspiration. As in, “Damn, if they can do it what’s my problem?”

— “We interrupt this broadcast to bring you this special news bulletin.”

That’s not inspiration. That’s just looking at someone as less than yourself.

No one ever gave me reason to question that way of thinking.

In my episode with Andrew, we talked about an early experience he had at a NFB chapter meeting.
That really brought back some memories for me, both as someone new to that environment and as someone who used to chair meetings of a local blindness organization.

In the latter, I had many opportunities to observe the uncomfort of those attending a meeting for the first time. These folks assumed we were a support group even though everything advertised about us was clear that we were a community advocacy organization working to increase access and opportunities for people with vision loss. That was literally what I’d say to not mention the word Blind because it scared folks away.

But when those unfamiliar with disability read “people with vision loss or blind”, I think their interpretation is, “Of course it’s a support group? What else do those people need?”

During these meetings, we’re talking about the business of advocacy. Meanwhile, those new to blindness are there in search of resources, maybe comfort, encouragement?

I don’t care if you’re personally impacted or a family member or friend, there’s something quite shocking when first encountering white canes, telescopic lenses and anything else associated with blindness.
Of course, there’s nothing shocking about these things, but when you are in this position where you’re facing a new normal; it’s a lot to take in.

Over time, I could recognize those who would return and those who were outta there.

Occasionally I think about them. the ones who ran away. I hope they found what they were looking for.

I’m not necessarily saying it was internal ableism that stopped them from connecting with our group. I just know that my internal ableism could have stopped me from connecting with people who truly made a difference in my life.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Have you ever witnessed ableism, in the real world …

Raven:
Are you kidding me?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
… that’s outside of anything to do with your father?

Raven:
Oh my god. Yeah.

Riana:
Girl, yes! (Laughs) What?

Raven:
Are you joking? (Laughs)

Riana:
Yeh, everyday.

Raven:
Number one, Villanova. That place man…

Riana:
Yeh, Villanova.

Raven:
Not the place but

Riana:
No the actual place is not accessible.

Raven:
(Ugh!) Ok, hold on. So the first thing I’m going to say is that a lot of the places on the campus, obviously they make accommodations but a lot of the places on the campus have like the disability stalls but there’s only stairs to get in it.

Another thing that drives me nuts is the people who think that they are so woke .
I was telling a story once something about going into the big stall somewhere and they were like, (In a British accent for some reason. LOL)”Oh I don’t use those stalls cause I realize those stalls are not for me”

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
(Laughing)

Raven:
And I’m like… (laughs) it pisses me off because I’m like, (yelling) “How are they gonna get inside of the place if that’s what you’re talking about.” It pisses me off because it’s this one dimensional viewpoint here it’s like don’t say a slur to someone but it’s so much more than that.

Riana:
I’ve been around people with disabilities for a while so I see it, institutional heavily like Raven was mentioning. Daily conversations. I’m thinking of things in like recreational therapy too.

The Rec therapist is coming in and trying to make something accessible. So you’re seeing how it’s not accessible for everybody. Just a lot of times you go into a space, and they’re like, Oh, this is what you can use. And it’s like, well, we’re going to need contractors because the people are not going to even be able to come in. If you take two seconds and put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. Even like a YMCA we went to and it wasn’t accessible. Every day living, we just had to create things, at least in my experience. And maybe that was just because we were students. So they weren’t really taking us seriously, but you had to be very creative. It puts you in a mindset of like, wow, people who are just not included. You have to be so creative, just to make sure that you’re able to do what you need to do.

In school psych. It’s always like, wow, my child looks normal, they seem normal.
And I’m like, you know who’s not normal? You

Raven:
I think also in a casual way, I notice it more. I think as a society we’re starting to work on our language

Riana:
Yeh!

Raven:
But I notice that it’s a little less with ability language.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Hmm! Riana let me ask you this. What’s the language that’s used when it comes to disability in your line of work?

Riana:
In School Psychology?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Yeh! Do they used differently abled, special needs, do they use disability?

Riana:
No, we say disability. That’s my huge argument over semantics. Everybody’s like don’t get caught up with semantics but that’s extremely important. If you describe a disability in a certain way it can put a picture in a parent’s brain and sometimes you just have to let that parent or teacher or whoever is uncomfortable, be uncomfortable because it is what that child is period.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
It sounds like you’re in the camp of no we’re gonna use the word disability, we’re not gonna change the language we’re gonna use those words.

Riana:
No!
Riana:
I’m not making you comfortable with anything, especially when I’m making you comfortable within ignorance. I’m not doing that. I’m gonna tell you your child has Autism cause there’s nothing wrong with Autism.
The DSM 5 says what it is and it is what it is.

Raven:
I just noticed this thing because I’m taking Psycho Pathology and I’ve noticed a lot of the names of things have changed.

Riana:
Yeh, like Sociopath is anti social personality.

Raven:
There’s like a lot that I realized have changed.
Riana:
Yeh! And that’s because of culture though. The way that semantics comes into play and the way they become derogatory and then we have to be sensitive. And that makes perfect sense, you know what I mean.

Raven:
Yeh!

Riana:
The “R” word. It makes perfect sense, I’m not going to use it.There’s some things though like obviously school psych’s aren’t going to test if a child has “gender dysphoria”, but I wouldn’t approach a situation where a child says they’re non conforming . I’m not going to say you have gender dysphoria. Like, that’s so stupid. That’s something that’s becoming a little derogatory too. That’s when I might change my wording, but that’s because of a cultural aspect.

— From George Carlin Stand Up Comedy:
“Sometime toilet paper became bathroom tissue. Sneakers became running shoes. Information became directory assistance. Car crashes became automobile accidents. Used cars became previously owned transportation.” (Audience laughter.) “Room service became guest room dining. And constipation became occasional irregularity.” (Audience laughter fades out)

— Music begins: A very bright, fun mid tempo beat.

TR:
Now, thinking about the requirements for citizenship in the country of the Blind, the truth is I don’t know that we have an immigration issue at all.
I don’t know anyone lining up trying to get in.

The country of the blind, just like this podcast, has fully open borders.

That being said, it is an opportunity to examine and challenge the way we move through the world to really figure out what blindness is and isn’t. What disability is and isn’t.

Even more of an opportunity if you have people in your life who you love and love you back to share in the experience.
Yes, these conversations can produce a range of emotions, but if you’re lucky, it can just lead to strengthening those bonds as opposed to breaking them.

(Sounds of laughter and conversation between Raven, Riana and Daddy!)

Blindness, disability is all a normal part of the human experience. Which I think works better when we’re all in it together!
Raven, Riana and Daddy:
(The conversation continues and leads into a hysterical laugh from the three!)

Big shout out to Andrew Leland, author of The Country of the Blind, remember, available on the NLS BARD for digital download and Book share as well as all the other places you can purchase books.

Riana and Raven, AKA, Daddy’s babies!
Hanging out with them, is one of the biggest blessings of my life.
Daddy loves you!

Reid My Mind Radio, daddy loves you too! (Silly laughter)

Reid My Mind Radio is available wherever you get podcasts.
Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.
The only way to get there is by spelling it right!
Riana and Raven:
R to the E I D!
— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick

TR, Riana and Raven:
Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!

Riana:
Can we do shout outs!

Raven:
Can we say bye?

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
You just said bye!

Raven:
Not really.

TR in Conversation with Riana & Raven:
Go ahead, say bye!

Raven:
Bye, guys! Thank you for having us on Reid My Mind Radioooooo! Peace!

Riana:
Peace! (In a deep voice)

(In her television announcer voice)
Thank you everybody for listening to Reid My Mind Radio. I’m Riana Reid with my co-host Raven Reid, taking over for this episode. Please follow us on Instagram. Mine is @RianaGeorgette. Raven what’s yours?

Raven:
I’m @Raven22 .

Riana:
We love you, thanks for listening, see you next week.

Raven:
I liked it, that was awesome!

Raven (at about 5 years old)
Woh! Heavy breathing. That was awesome, that was awesome!d

Hide the transcript

TR in Conversation with Andrew
sort of a silly question. But I guess you know, you could go somewhere with this. If blindness were really a country, who are you voting for President.

Andrew
You’ve got my vote Thomas.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Oh, no, I don’t want that.

TR
That’s the last time I ask a silly question. My guest today is Andrew Leland.

Andrew
Writer, Editor, Producer, Teacher, my pronouns are he him, I am a white guy with glasses, short brown hair, wearing a sweatshirt.

There’s certainly people who I think would nominate themselves. You want me to name like a particular human being?

TR in Conversation with Andrew
You don’t have to if you don’t want to. What are the qualifications that you would think would make a good president of The Country of the Blind.

Andrew
the people that I’m drawn to, generally speaking, these are people who probably don’t want to be politicians, and wouldn’t take the job. But, you know, I really love blind people who are creative and who aren’t rejecting their blindness, but they’re also not really defined by it. And they’re sort of using it as this sort of creative aspect of themselves. So it’s sort of like, not for it, not against it. But like with it.

I can pick out a number of people who I write about in the book too.

TR
Well, you’re going to have to read the book, The Country of the Blind, to find out who else can get Andrew’s vote.
I’m Thomas Reid, this is Reid My Mind Radio, and I approve this message.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR
Whether you’re blind or disabled, or in any way, identify as someone in a marginalized group, chances are you thought about what life would be like in a place where you are accepted, and your needs are centered. Maybe even just considered?

Andrew Leland’s first book, The Country of the Blind isn’t a fictional place, but rather, it’s about something much more real.

Andrew
I have a degenerative retinal condition called RP, retinitis pigmentosa. I knew that I was going blind since I was a teenager. But for a really long time, it felt abstract, distant and not worth thinking about. Another way to say not worth thinking about might be like I was sort of in denial, as I think a lot of people are with our P is very easy to be in denial about it, because it’s like, well, sure, I might be going blind. But I’m like driving a car and scoring the winning goal over here. There’s no blindness anywhere near here. And then it caught up with me.

TR
Over the years of doing this podcast, and even prior, I’ve spoken to a lot of people experiencing blindness, low vision, vision loss, no matter what you call it.
or , the reason for the loss, denial is commonplace. And so too, is the fact that it will catch up.

Andrew
I’m about to turn 43 And I would say was about 8, 10 years ago that I really started noticing blindness, intruding into my life, into my day to day in a way that I couldn’t ignore. It was around that time that I started using a white cane full time in public. As soon as I started using the white cane in front of my partner, in front of colleagues, walking down the street in front of strangers, It made me blind in the eyes of other people. It forced me to think of myself as blind. And that was really the beginning of the writing process for me.

TR
He began first exploring blindness as a journalist

— Audio clips of Andrew hosting or reporting from The Organist” and “Radio Lab” respectively.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Can you talk about the art of writing in general, and maybe how important it is and has been in your life?
Andrew
It’s one of the most important things in my life. There’s this phrase that I think about sometimes, which we usually think about in terms of like technology, which is a word processor. Microsoft word is a word processor, the computer is helping you process words, there’s something in that idea that you’re processing and kind of a lot of different ways when you’re writing emotional processing. I use the word metabolizing a lot too. There’s something that happens like an experience and the experience is a little bit just like this meal that you just swallow down but like, you’ve got to digest it. For me like writing is such a crucial part of that process of metabolizing what it is that I’m feeling and experiencing in the world.

TR:
This probably sounds familiar to those who journal and not only gives you an opportunity to purge all of the things running through your mind But literally, it enables you to process those thoughts and emotions.

Andrew
I had some ideas about what blindness meant to me. But now that I’ve written the book, I’ve kind of given myself a little bit of a map to my own feelings and my own thoughts about it that I would never have arrived at without the work of writing.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
To be a good writer, you have to be a reader. And I’m assuming you’re a big reader.

Andrew
Yes, I love reading. So when I started writing the book in 2019, I still was kind of hanging tough with print, I couldn’t even imagine a life after print is such a deep part of my life. And I was very, very unwilling to let go of it. The tricky thing about RP is it’s not like you just wake up one day, you can’t read print anymore. It’s the kind of thing where literally, it will happen over the course of a decade. And at a certain point, you have to just sort of decide like, Okay, this is actually more trouble than it’s worth

TR:
a decision, each individual has to make for themselves. Yet, there are some real world things to consider as a guideline,

Andrew
I had a Kindle, and I just like kept on cranking size up and up and up, had started to meet enough blind people and talk to enough blind people, the writing was on the wall. They were like, text-to-speech, man, it’s where it’s at. You’ve just got to listen. I just sort of went all in and kind of made it like a project for myself. Like I’m going to learn how to read text to speech. It took me a while until I found Voice Dream Reader. That app was a game changer for me. And Bookshare, which is a online library for blind and print disabled folks, which has millions of titles, those two tools in unison. That’s the power combo for me. Over the course of the last three years, while I was writing the book, I was also kind of training myself to be a blind reader.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What about Braille? You mentioned that in the book you were headed that direction?

Andrew
Yep. Yeah, I’m holding tough with Braille. I mean, it’s incredibly frustrating to be so slow, after so many years, I think I started in 2020, maybe, or 2019. Even. It’s been a journey.

TR:
In the book, Andrew discusses first learning Braille with a sighted instructor, then a season Braille reader gave him some strong advice,

Andrew
that guy’s teaching you bad habits, like get rid of him. And I was like, Oh, right. Blind people know how to read Braille, like that guy was sighted. And I don’t think he knew what he was doing. And then I found the Hadley Institute, amazing service. It’s a free mail order correspondence course, for Braille. If you hang with it, do everything they tell you to do, you’ll come out the other side with Braille. I’m still super slow. I tried to touch Braille at least once a day just to like, keep it in circulation. Last night, I tried to read a book to my kid, my father’s Dragon is a great kids book that we’ve read before. I’ve read that book a bunch of times with him already. So I sort of know the sentences, but still, I just sound like, (reading very slowly)then… he… said, hey… guys…, how long can I expect my son who’s 11 Now to like, roll with me on that. And he’s sort of like patient because he knows I’m like trying to get better. But it’s a struggle.

TR:
Every aspect of our lives are affected by disability. Jobs or our careers. Our real concern, is the way we make money, feel a sense of purpose. For many, it’s how we identify, it’s often the first thing we ask when meeting someone new, “So what do you do? ”

Prior to reading The Country of the Blind, I assumed a writer experiencing blindness would have an easier time moving forward in their career, magnification of screen reading software, along with word processes and access to the internet, chances are they can perform the work. But actually being able to perform the work is only part of the struggle

Andrew
for the kind of writing that I like to do most, which is going out into the world hanging out with people that I want to write about taking notes, and then doing research, reading articles, and so on. The heart of it is that reporting process where you’re out on the scene, long form narrative nonfiction, you gather facts, but you also gather sensory data, like any creative writer has to have sensory impressions. If you think about literature, or the novel, it’s all about these visual descriptions of people. And those are sort of these windows into their character. And so I think about that a lot, both on the level of like, just being an artist and having artful sensory descriptions that convey this kind of mood that I want, but also as a journalist, am I going to be reporting somewhere and miss the story because I can’t see it.

TR:
That’s understandable, especially if you’re new to disability and unfamiliar with an adaptive way of thinking or creating accommodations, but this is 2024. And there are lessons to be learned from those who blazed trails before we ever set foot on a new path. Andrew tells us about one such example.

Andrew
Ved Mehta, who moved to the United States from India when he was a kid. He ended up becoming a staff writer at The New Yorker, which is one of the premier places to publish that kind of narrative nonfiction. He was there during the celebrated William Sean era, writing nonfiction was one of the greatest nonfiction editors of all time.

TR:
Mehta, who was totally blind and on staff still had to deal with questioning around aspects of his Writing,

Andrew
he would write these dispatches from different places where he would talk about his subjects twinkling wintry eyes set against the mahogany Brown of his study and so on. He would have an assistant often with him, met who was doing the interview and, and he was doing the writing, but he might say to the assistant, describe his eyes for me, and use that.

TR:
precede just about any occupation with the word blind. And I’m pretty sure a version of this conversation exists, questioning the blind person’s accommodation, blind accountant, blind programmer, blind orientation and mobility instructor, blind, audio description Narrator or writer. Hmm,

Andrew
maybe if I’m using the Be My Eyes, virtual volunteer five years from now, if I’m reporting and I use that to gather some details about somebody’s pronounced cheekbones or their tousled hair, I think that that’s a totally legitimate way to report, you can look at that as an accommodation. Ved Mehta needs an assistant in some context to fully do the reporting he needs where I might need Be My Eyes to finish the job. People look at that as like almost a disqualification. You didn’t run the race unassisted, you had this help.

TR:
The unfairness, the hypocrisy, makes my blood boil.

Andrew
But, I think if you take a step back and you look at technology, or even just like tools, in general, we’re all getting assistance all the time, from each other from other people and from technology. disability might mean you need different kinds of tool, different kinds of technology, different kinds of personal assistance, but it’s not categorically different. If you think about any journalist, any writer, if they’re sighted, don’t need assistance in gathering visual details. But they certainly are reporting things that they haven’t seen with their own eyes, almost any piece of nonfiction writing will have a reconstruction. If I’m writing a story, and I want to talk about when you first became a podcaster, I might interview you and say, okay, describe the scene for me, where were you? What was the day like, what were you wearing? Tell me all of it. And then I write that scene as though I were there even though it was 20 years ago, and I was 100 miles away.

TR:
The same people questioning accommodations, go gaga for AI.
Ableism is real.
Ableism isn’t just an external thing done to those who are disabled. In The Country of the Blind. Andrew bravely shares an experience where he attends a local chapter meeting of the NFB in Missouri. Here’s an excerpt from the book with Andrew narrating.

— Andrew as Narrator
I had noticed the blind woman in a wheelchair using a strange device that looked like it somehow converted the text on a laptop screen into metallic Braille. I had noticed the other people with multiple disabilities and the modest scale at which the group was operating, arguing over how to spend their tiny publicity budget. If I had gone to the meeting to find other blind people whom I might commiserate with, or learn from or befriend, the first impression was more off putting than I had expected. Part of it was surely just geographical culture shock, but a greater part was a different kind of culture shock, or discomfort with disability.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What do you think your experience would be like? Now knowing what you know and feeling how you feel? If you went to that meeting for the first time? How do you think it would be different?

Andrew
Just to preface, it’s me being super open about the, I guess you could call it internalized ableism that I felt where I’m just looking at this group of blind people, like, what do I have in common with any of these people, like, get me out of here,

TR
Andrew receive some real criticism from blind people about this part of the book.

Andrew:
Today, in retrospect, going to that meeting now, like I know, Gary wonder was there. He’s the editor of the Braille monitor, somebody who is more engaged with blind intellectual life, which is something I’m deeply interested in, then like, most people in the in the world, that guy alone is somebody I should have, like, grabbed and had a long conversation with, but at the time, all I could see was a group of disabled people who felt very different from my image of myself. So having the patience to spend longer than I did spend at that meetup, having the courage to actually like, talk to people as people rather than just look at them through this sort of other engaged the way I do

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I get it. For folks to get mad at that, I don’t think they realize what’s really going on like you being honest about that, is that process of checking your own ableism. You can’t get to a point without doing that work.

Andrew
Totally

TR in Conversation with Andrew
putting that in the book is inviting other people to do that, too.

Andrew
Thank you for pointing that out. Plenty of blind people said to me, just what you’ve said, where they’re like, that was me. And these are people, some folks who have been blind their whole lives. It’s not like it’s only somebody who’s like, has this site privilege or somebody coming at it from the outside. I think any blind person can have that perspective, and many of them do. And I’m with you that it felt important to take that risk of making myself seem like a real jerk in order to expose some of that ableism that a lot of us carry around.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
That’s the other thing too, that you, you included your wife? Did you talk to her before you include? Because I was like, oh, yeah, I don’t know if I could do that.

Andrew
I think she’s within earshot listening to me talk to you right now. So you know, you might hear the door burst open. And you know, she might

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Come on in.

Andrew:
She might jump on the mic. But, uh, yeah, I mean, like, there were definitely moments where I was like, I want to write an interesting book. But I also want to be married for the rest of my life. And I don’t want to jeopardize that. So there were a lot of tough conversations that we had. A journalist should never give their source a copy of the text to change. You can fact check it by saying like, is this true or not. But with Lily, it was a very different situation. Like, we just sat down with the book in front of us multiple times, like and did sort of a find, for her name. And then just like, read every sentence of what do you remember about this, and a lot changed in those conversations.

TR
You can’t overstate the importance of good communication. having these conversations, no matter how uncomfortable is so important to a relationship.

Andrew
It was like a way for us to talk through some of those issues. Even though a lot of that stuff was difficult. And like, I’m sure she would have been happy to see all of her name just like completely scrubbed from the book. I think to her credit, like she recognized the importance of including for the same reason you just said about the picnic scene. I don’t think I had read a book that was really honest in that way about how difficult the partners journey can be to and the trickiness around the way that your partner is entering blindness at the same time you are, it was worth the difficulty and the risk in order to start that conversation, not just in my own family, but maybe in others as well. Then

TR:
there’s the ableism we experienced through our society. In The Country of the Blind. Andrew writes about a poem read during a service at a synagogue.

Andrew
The refrain that the poem says over and over again, is fall to your knees and thank God for your eyesight. You just sort of have to sit there with your family, as like a whole room of people just sort of appreciates that they aren’t blind. I certainly still encounter it. I think one thing that’s changed is that that moment marked the kind of beginning I think for not just me, but for my family to sort of have a politics around it. It was kind of wild to me that Lily found it annoying. And then it wasn’t just me.

TR:
Everyone in the family is adjusting to disability. The question is, will that be done alone, or together?

Andrew
My son, I feel like I’ve sort of trained him to be a critical thinker about it. I will be watching something and he’ll sort of perk up when there’s like a disability reference that seems off. He’s in fifth grade. And at the beginning of the year, they were doing this exercise about guidelines for how to be a good community for each other. And one of them was like, be respectful. Even if the person has a disability. The line that caught his ear was even if they have a disability. He raised his hand and was kind of like I don’t know about like, even and the teacher was like, oh, yeah, that’s good. Like something was bothering me about that. But I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. To me that shows that he is really internalizing some of these critical disability thinking that I’ve sort of come to that makes me feel really proud and excited.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What’s your son’s name?

Andrew
Oscar.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Is that like a head nod to your grandfather?

Andrew
It is. It is.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Oh, very cool. (Laughing)

Andrew
He was a playwright. His name was Neil Simon, one of his best known plays that got turned into a TV show and a movie was “The Odd Couple”.

— Music begins Theme song from The Odd Couple
— Narration from the opening of the Odd Couple
On November 13, Felix Unger was asked to remove himself from his place of residence. That request came from his wife.

Andrew
my wife, Lily, when we were trying to think of baby names. She said, Well, what about Felix? My first thought was the odd couple because Felix is the sort of more fastidious neurotic member of the odd couple. I was like, No, it can’t be Felix. Oscar, that’s who you want to name a baby after.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
A hearty laugh!

Andrew
. She wasn’t even thinking of “The Odd Couple”.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I hope he’s not like Oscar though. He’s not pulling out sandwiches from the bed?

Andrew
He’s got a little bit of both, I would say.

— The Odd Couple theme music comes to an end.

— Music begins A funky baseline opens to a smooth mid tempo R&B groove.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What was your experience, if any, with disability arts prior to 10 years ago, when you opened up your cane?

Andrew
Hmm. That’s a good question. I think I’d encountered it in the art world. When I first learned about the work of Christine Sun Kim. She’s a Deaf artist who does really interesting work around like sound or like representations of sound, interesting stuff with captions. That would have been on that level, or certainly, like mainstream blind musicians, that would have hit me on that mainstream level. That movie, like I think Sound of Metal, but really, it was not on my radar.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
If they’re in the mainstream, I don’t consider that disability culture. That’s just me. Are they making the art from a disability perspective? I think that’s the way I draw that line.

Andrew
My book is a mainstream book, you know, like it’s with a commercial publisher? Does that mean that like what I’m doing is not from a disability perspective, it’s kind of a bigger question about identity. Does your work fall under the category of the identity just by virtue of your having the identity? Or does the work have to like, be about the identity for it to be included? I think it’s kind of a spectrum.

TR
What qualifies something as disability art? disability culture? What makes someone a disability artist. Questions really worth exploring. I’ll do some of that in the ongoing self portrait episode.

Andrew
That’s the question that I’ve been wrestling with really like through the whole process of writing the book and figuring out my own identity as a blind person is like, is it supposed to be central? Or is it supposed to be incidental? When is it Central? When is it incidental? I read an interview with this bio ethicist who was blind named Adrian ash who died a couple years ago, she was very adamant that blindness was totally incidental. Her friends joke that she was 20, before she realized she was blind, because she just was like, it doesn’t really affect my life. But then when she applied for a job, and it was pretty obvious that she didn’t get the job because she was blind, because the person was basically explicitly like, I don’t know how we would hire a blind person, that’s when she became blind. That’s when it became a central part of her identity, that kind of politicizes it in a way that I don’t totally track with. If we’re talking about disability arts, I do want to center blindness as a writer, in some ways. There’s other times when, when I want it to be totally off to the side.

— Music comes to a close.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What has the response been like today? And I’m wondering if there’s any difference between blind and non blind readers?

Andrew
Yeah, it’s been great. I’ve gotten some criticism. But over my overwhelming experience has been one of people really responding positively to the book, it seemed safe to assume that like people whose experience was close to mine, would be like, oh, yeah, I recognize that like the first time I used a cane, stopping driving. But one of the things I learned in writing the book is that blindness is such a diverse experience, not only in the ways that people experience blindness, but also all kinds of other life experiences intersectionality’s that can inform one’s relationship with disability. The cool thing for me, after the book has come out has been just seeing folks whose experience is very different from mine, also resonated with a book that makes me feel like I captured something about blind culture Blind politics in 2023. The experience that extends beyond my narrow experience of it,

TR:
the response Andrew hears the most from those who are not blind?

Andrew
“I learned a lot.”

It’s shocking sometimes how little people really stopped to consider the experience of blindness. And so I think one thing that book has done is really just like cracked that world open a lot more for a lot more people

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What was some of the criticism you mentioned that you receive.

Andrew
One of the things I really tried to do in the book is like not just have it be a memoir. I think the parts that people respond to the most are like me writing about my relationship with my son or with my wife are very emotional, personal moments. And I understand that, I think it’s important to include those, but I also get pretty nerdy. And talking about history of audio description, or the history of Braille history of the organized blind movement and NFB versus ACB versus AFB. Plenty of readers who didn’t know anything about blindness pointed out that it’s wild that there’s like these ancient beefs between blind people. Why are blind people fighting? Are they supposed to be in solidarity with each other fighting the fight to raise Blind people up. there are certain readers who are like, dude, enough of the alphabet soup? I don’t care, let’s move on.
That’s one criticism.

TR
You should judge for yourself. Get the book.

Andrew
The book is on Bookshare. It’s on barred I read the audio book myself. Every blind person who hears the audiobook is like how the hell did you do that? The short answer is Rp. 5% of my visual field still hanging in there.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
You did a great job reading that book. Part of that I’m sure was from your podcast experience and narration and stuff.

Andrew
Totally. Yeah.

TR
You can learn more about Andrew, his work and find him on social media by visiting his website AndrewLeland.org.

There really is something for everyone in this book. But here on Reid My Mind Radio, we’re especially interested in those adjusting to disability. while Andrews experience is specifically about blindness. I want to strongly encourage those new to disability to read The Country of the Blind, you’ll see yourself, your family, you’ll hopefully confront your own feelings about what it means to be disabled. And don’t worry, the final say is always up to you.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
So what’s your current citizenship status for the country of the Blind? Are you a citizen? Are you just visiting? What are we doing?

Andrew
I’ve applied for a green card. It’s been approved and now I’m just like waiting in the mail for it. So I’m like technically a citizen but I don’t have like the full papers yet.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I can’t give you those papers, but I can tell you that you are an official member of the Reid My Mind Radio family sir.

Andrew
That’s much better news. That makes, that makes my day. And I have to say, you know, I didn’t want to I didn’t want to like mess things up by flattering you too much, but, you know, if we’re really talking about blind President? It’, you got my vote, it’s all you Thomas.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
(Laughing) Well, I appreciate that, but I am not running.

Andrew
Alright, well, I’m still gonna write you in. Gonna get my slate and stylus and braille you right on to the ballot.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
There you go. All right. Well, if I get enough, I’ll think about it.

TR
You know, I really do appreciate Andrew’s vote. But even more than that, I appreciate all the effort put into the book, sharing his experiences and time with the Reid My Mind Radio family. Sharing the art of adjustment.

I’m very hopeful that Andrew will come back and share some of his experiences around audio description. We of course, had a little conversation about that, but I think a future episode on what we were specifically talking about would be nice. That’s all I’ll say for now. Well on that topic at least.

— Music begins Hail to the Chief.

— Tap on microphone

TR
— Over exaggerated clearing of throat.

(In a presidential style speech )
. My fellow citizens, as we move forward together united as one, no matter where we land on the spectrum called blindness. We should ask, not what the blindness has done to us. But rather, what is it that we will do with our blindness?

We should also remind ourselves… to rock with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.
Just remember, that’s R to the E, I, D!
— Sample (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro

Peace!

TR in presidential mode
And may God Bless Humanity!

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