Reid My Mind

TR:
Hosting and producing a podcast alone, requires taking on multiple roles.
Ring master, assuring everyone in the audience is aware and entertained. Knowing when to bring out the next act, do something silly to make an audience member giggle a bit or call in the clowns.

We juggle all sorts of responsibilities, walk a fine line when picking and choosing what to include or leave out of an episode.
Hopefully, we make it look easy so others can simply enjoy themselves and walk away feeling informed, uplifted, encouraged with a smile on their face.
With that said, there’s only one way to kick off this first episode of our Flipping the Script on Audio Description season.

Brian:
ladies and gentlemen children of all ages. I’m Brian Velazquez from Omnium circus. We would like to welcome you and your family to Reid My Mind Radio!

Now here’s your host Thomas Reid!

TR:
(Energetically)
See, now that’s how you do it baby! Let’s go!

Audio Reid My Mind Theme Music

TR:
It was summer, 2023 and I’m at an event at the Lighthouse in New York city. It was my first time there. I was in conversation with someone when soon after a young gentleman introduced himself to me.

Brian:
My name is Brian Velasquez. I am the Outreach Coordinator, with Omnium a bold new circus.

TR:
He went on to tell me a little about the circus when I quickly realized I not only heard of them but I wanted them on the podcast. They’re a perfect fit.

Omnium not only provides an accessible experience to the children of all ages, but many of the acts include disabled performers.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
Tell me a little bit about how you came to learn about and work with Omnium circus.

Brian:
. Growing up, I used to love going to the circus when I was little. But as with all things I grew out of it. Long and behold I start my first year of college.
I’ve always wanted to be a Braille teacher, that was my mind set since I was around so many Braille teachers growing up.

TR:
Soon after beginning his course work in education, Brian realized he really wasn’t interested in being a teacher. So he moved from the school of education and discovered therapeutic recreation.

Brian:
Continued with that work with geriatrics. Graduated with a degree in therapeutic rec in 2015.

TR:
Soon after, Brian began working at Coney Island Hospital.

— “Where Brooklyn at…” Notorious BIG

Brian:
I implemented a program with the residents where we learned about the loading and unloading of the Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey Circus train. So we watched a video on that we did some threading, we answered questions, we discussed it. And a little sparked started to form.

TR:
It wasn’t the first time Brian used the circus as a way to facilitate therapy in his work.
I don’t think he ever so called “grew out” of his love for the circus. And why should he?

Brian:
Little by little something begins to draw me back.
I come across Lisa Lewis because I look up tickets to go to the Big Apple Circus in New York City.
I saw they needed a volunteer for circus of the senses. I was like why not? It wasn’t gonna affect work. So I connected with Lisa B. Lewis.
And the rest is history.

Lisa:
My name is Lisa Lewis and I am the founder and executive director of Omnium circus. I am five foot tall, I have dark brown hair, relatively pale skin, red glasses. Generally I’m wearing red lipstick. My pronouns are she and her.

TR:
As it turns out, these two, Brian and Lisa actually have a history together.

Lisa:
Brian was eight years old and came to circus of the senses. He loved it. He came every year. I know Brian, I know his classmates, I knew his teachers. We’ve all stayed very good friends.
I just adore Brian. He’s so smart. His insights are so interesting. I’m a big, big, big, big, big Brian fan.

So fast forward a bunch of years. And Brian wanted to come and be a part of the circus.
At that time, I was still with Big Apple. So I said, Why don’t you come Be Our Guest ringmaster for circus of the senses.

TR:
The Big Apple Circus which began in 1977 is a one ring circus mostly residential to New York City. Community involvement and outreach has always been a part of their philosophy.

Circus of the senses was the Big Apple Circus outreach to children with disabilities.

Lisa:
So they would give away tickets to kids with disabilities. And we provided audio description, American Sign Language interpreters. And that really kind of clicked to listen to people to realize their enjoyment to know that these people wanted to love the circus just as much as everybody else wants to love the circus. And a simple access was all that’s needed to be able to include them in this popular entertainment. And they only got it once a season same now with Broadway shows. If you’re deaf and you want to see an interpreted show, you only get one shot at it. To me, that’s just not right. I always thought how, how could we make this so that anybody can come to any show?

TR:
That question would ultimately lead to the creation of Omnium Circus.

Lisa:
I eventually ran the program. I eventually split it off so that we had one show for people for whom the access of audio description and American Sign Language was beneficial and Another one for people with sensory needs, and autism. So we created two different programs.

And then finally, by the time the pandemic had hit, and everybody was kind of sitting around I thought,? could we create a show that not only was accessible to everybody, at any show?

TR:
Looking even further at the make up of the circus, Lisa noticed other disparities.

Lisa:
I live in New York City. This is not a monochromatic place. This is an incredibly diverse and vibrant community. And we thrive for our diversity, because we each have so much to offer.

Could we bring that to the ring? So that was part of what I was thinking, Could we do that?

TR:
Lisa wanted to bring all of that to the ring.

But this was during the pandemic, so Lisa had to use a different approach.

Lisa:
We made a virtual version.

we pull together a group of artists from all over the world from all different abilities to really showcase the beauty of the human spirit. And we collaborated with an organization in New York, called Disability unite. And we created a platform online that would provide for different channels of simultaneous access.

TR:
That included audio description, captions, Spanish language translation…

Lisa:
As a person who signs I got really tired of looking to the side to watch the interpreter and missing all the action. To me, that was annoying and a circus. So I wanted it integrated, I wanted the person who was signing a, to be deaf and b, to make sure that it was integrated and part of the action.

. So you’re still enjoying the same show at the same level. That’s equity. Then we put it out. Let’s just see what happens. And we ended up getting almost 30,000 people watching it in 16 states and five countries.
That gave us the energy to say, Okay, let’s see what we got to do to make this a reality.

TR:
this performance called “A Celebration of Diversity” is still available for purchase on Eventbrite. I’ll link you to it directly on this episode’s blog post at ReidMyMind.com.

TR in conversation with Lisa:
So how big is your organization?

Lisa:
Our whole organization is actually not that big.

Twenty five percent of our performers have disabilities. Forty percent of our overall organization have disabilities. The performers are obviously the largest part of our company.

Outside of performers There are maybe eight of us. Nine. Well, we’re small and mighty.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
What do you do as an outreach coordinator?

Brian:
I reach out to organizations, such as schools, community centers, NFB, ACB

It is a little scary at first, especially reaching out to schools, it’s a little daunting, but I’m starting to getting used to that more. Most people. They’re like, Oh, wow, send me information.

I work remotely.

we all work as a team when it comes to outreach. We have someone that does flyers for us, we have someone that may send a couple of emails for us to help out. So all the work is spread out evenly so we can all work together as a team and do the best we can to get people in seats.

— Music Begins Quarter note hi hat open to a slow bass heavy groove.

TR:
The best way to get people in the seats is to have great performers.

Lisa:
Some of the acts in the show, especially this year are just incredible.

We have a young woman who plays our lead, who is the world’s fastest juggler. Our choreographer and onsite director who also does a crossbow act just set the Guinness Book of World Records, because he shot a crossbow looking into a mirror over his right shoulder 25 feet to hit an apple off the top of his wife’s head.

TR in conversation with Lisa:
Oh my god. How long were they married?

Lisa:
They’re still married!

TR in conversation with Lisa:
I’m gonna ask my wife after this is done.

Lisa & TR Laugh!

Lisa:
We have a dancer who’s a seven time NCAA gymnastics champion, who also is a wheelchair user, who does a beautiful, beautiful acrobatic dance.

We have a gorgeous aerialist, who also came up through the world of gymnastics and does this beautiful aerial silks duet with her husband.

Brian:
It’s done by Miss Chandrika Bower and Dominic Bower. And the husband plays the trombone during part of the act and it is just such a beautiful act. You see the romance? You see the passion.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
He’s in the air playing trombone? Oh my gosh!

Lisa:
It’s just this gorgeous love story. She happened to have been born without legs.

Brian:
We have a female ringmaster. Danette Shepard Vaughan. African American. She is phenomenal.

Lisa:
She’s got this gorgeous, Jazzy singing voice and her partner. We call the character of the poet who is a full dancer. He is death and he performs the entire show in ASL.

Brian:
And we have another act that I like is the King Charles troupe?
I don’t know if you’re familiar with them?

TR in Conversation with Brian:
Wait, are they on the unicycles?

Brian:
Yes, they are.

TR
I remember seeing this talented group who perform these amazing basketball acrobatic stunts on unicycles. I first saw them when my oldest daughter was only about two or three. They performed with the UniverSoul Circus. We went at least twice. During one performance, I actually got picked from the audience to go into the ring and dance with ReRun from the show What’s Happening. You know, Roger, Dee, Dwayne? Shirley from the diner?

— Transition – Theme music from “What’s Happening”

TR in conversation with Lisa:
I’m really curious. How do you go about finding these acts?

Lisa:
We have the world’s most amazing artistic director. His name is Noe Espana. He has sixth generation fifth generation circus. His wife is sixth or seventh sixth generation circus. His kids are now Seventh Generation circus. And they know everybody, Noe finds our acts. He creates the shows. He writes the shows. He puts everything together. He is a creative genius. Wow. Okay. And we take applications, although, in all fairness, you gotta be good. (Laughs) Be really good. Noe’s picky.

TR in Conversation with Lisa:
Yeh, so you’re getting people walking in off the street like “Hey, I want to apply for the circus?”

TR:
Duh! I know that’s not the case.
Obviously circus performers require a lot of skill that come from years of practice and experience. Many begin perfecting their acts from childhood.

Lisa’s love for the circus also began as a child, but it wasn’t until she attended college where she came across the opportunity to get involved.

Lisa:
One of my roommates was trying to teach me how to juggle. I was a miserable failure. But I was in the theater department and Ringling Brothers had just posted an audition for clown College.

She goes, Why don’t you go try out this audition, at least maybe you’ll learn to juggle. So I went to the audition. And I fell in love.
I felt like yes, this is where I belong.
I was one of 50 students out of a pool of over 2000 [that were accepted that particular year.]
And in 1986, I went to Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey circus clown College, and my journey began.

TR:
In addition to clown college, Lisa did finish her degree and went on to get a Masters in Circus history.

Lisa:
Circus is an art form and always has been an art form. That can include so many people, because it’s not a language based art form. It’s not an intellect based art form. It’s a heart. It’s a feeling. It’s a visceral enjoyment. And so it can bring all kinds of communities together, and has been since the beginning of time.

TR:
That ability to bring people together made it an effective way to impact society.

(Lisa:
the electric light bulb was introduced in a circus, because everyone was afraid of it. So the circus was the first to light with electric light bulbs to show everyone that that was okay.

Barnum introduced the horseless carriage in a circus. Cars started becoming popular. So it’s a really wonderful way of reaching large groups of people.

I love it for its ability to include. I love it for its ability to entertain. I love it for its ability to showcase the best of the best. It’s like watching the Olympics. You see the best of the best people who’ve spent their lives for generations dedicated to learning a specific art form and you see what amazing things the human body can accomplish all bodies, any shapes, any sizes, anything. The amazing accomplishments of the human spirit.

TR in conversation with Lisa:
What’s the relationship between freak shows and circus?
Lisa 50
I’m actually really glad you asked that question.

So back in time, humanity was a lot less advanced. There were different water fountains, there were different bathrooms. We weren’t real nice to each other, to say the least,
And one of those not very nice things. Concerned persons with disabilities. They were thrown in institutions, they were drowned. They were killed. They were hidden away. They were not given respect as individuals.

TR
As awful as that sounds, Lisa points out a very real and practical side.

Lisa:
So the freak show, quote, unquote, at that time, provided viable employment when people couldn’t get jobs. No one would hire you if you had a disability. The Circus provided employment, you could buy a house you could raise your family, they had a life they had a community to become involved with.
the circus created a very positive space within a very negative paradigm.
So we’re reclaiming the paradigm, but not showing people because of what makes them different than 75% of the world. But what makes them unique and special and their incredible talent and artistry to lift them up. So that the world can see that we all are people and inside each one of us is a beautiful gift, regardless of the body to which you are born or the skin you are in.

TR:
Lisa went on to work for Ringling Brothers, freelanced as a clown and ended up working in the Clown Care Unit, an outreach program of the Big Apple Circus.
Clown Care Clown Doctors are specially selected professional performers who are trained to work in the sensitive hospital environment. Using minimal make-up, evocative costumes, juggling, comedy, magic and music these “clown doctors” help ease the stress of illness and aid in a patients’ healing.
In pairs they make “ Clown Rounds” visiting children throughout the hospital from bedside to all sorts of patient encounters.

Meet Lisa’s former clown doctor partner, Liz Bolick.

Liz:
I go by she her hers pronouns. I am six feet tall, with reddish brown hair to my shoulders a little bit curly. I have an oval face, I’m a Caucasian woman kind of shapely.

Liz:
I had worked with the Big Apple Circus for many, many years in New York City as a performer, and as a clown doctor in the clown care unit, working with their specialty programs with hospital clowning. And then I started doing pre show for the circus of the senses,.

Lisa Lewis approached me and asked me if I’d be interested in being an audio describer. I said, Sure. That sounds cool. How do you do that?

TR in conversation with Liz:
Oh my goodness.
I used to go to New York Hospital. On the east side?
I used to love the clowns. I used to have such a good time.

Liz

How old were you?

TR in Conversation with Liz:
I was a grown ass man.
The clowns and I would connect because I’m hysterical. And they’re like this is the only person who really seems to be enjoying this.

Liz:
I was at New York Hospital. for 20 years doing it at New York Hospital, Columbia Presbyterian. Then I went out to Einstein in the Bronx. Your doctor sneakers, that was me.

TR in conversation with Liz:
Wow. Okay.

Liz 24
you probably saw me play. Crazy high top sneakers on. That’s how kids remembered me buy my shoes
TR in conversation with Liz:
I would look forward to go just to see the clowns.

Liz:
Well, it makes me happy that we made a difference in that in those moments for you. Right.

TR in conversation with Liz:
Absolutely.
I think for other parents, it was just a little levity.
It was really nice.

Liz:
Great for the staff to sometimes a little joy. It just breaks people out of their sorrow or their stress for five seconds. Yeah. And it makes a difference. And so I’m blessed to have done it.

TR:
To continue providing access to joy, Lisa signed Liz up for a two week audio description course at the Theater Development Fund.

In addition to AD training, TDF offers Accessibility Programs that provide a membership service for theatregoers with disabilities that require some form of access including wheelchair seating, captions, ASL and audio description. You can check them out at TDF.org.

Liz:
I found it fascinating. And then one day, she said, Alright, jump in. I said You mean today.

TR:
Just like making clown doctor rounds, at Omnium, audio description is done in pairs.

Liz was paired with Carl Anthony Tramon.

(Liz:
I was absolutely nervous. But she had Carl there as the audio describer, who is brilliant and has done this for years and years and years. And she said, just jump in and work with Carl.

it was one of the best things I ever did.

I remember sitting next to Carl, and I was sweating. I was so scared. And I turned to Carl and I said, Do you have any advice for me, and he turned to me with this big smile on his face and said, just talk like it’s a conversation. So imagine we’re kids seeing the circus for the first time. And let’s describe what we see and have fun.

I had this great experience. And I got to work with a master. Of course. Generally, you don’t get to work as a team. But I think I was extremely lucky that not only did I get placed with a partner, my first experience, but Carl Tramon, was that partner.

TR:
Unfortunately, Carl was not available for this interview but brother, if you’re listening,
I’m extending an open invitation to you to come on the podcast
and share your experience with audio description.

Although Liz was new to AD, the skills she gained as a clown doctor were perfect for describing a live circus.
Liz:
It makes you very present. And you have to be in the moment. And there’s nothing more in the moment than audio description,

You really have to be aware of what’s happening right in that second.

TR:
Being prepared to respond quickly to something unexpected is crucial in live description. However, there’s still a lot of preparation that goes into the role.

Liz:
I’m somebody that likes a lot of rehearsal and likes to feel really prepared. So I’m usually over prepared.

I get to know the individual acts, I like to look up their websites know what skills they’re doing, what’s a history of their family? How do you pronounce their name? If they’re doing a Diablo act? What’s the history of that Diablo? That’s a Chinese yo, yo, what are the terms for it? I’ll watch YouTube videos of how to do Diablo and it’ll give me all these terms.

TR:
Those unfamiliar with the process of AD are surprised by the amount of research and preparation required to write effective description. Even when it appears to be spontaneous.

And of course, whenever possible, go to the source.

Liz:
I like to speak to the artists directly if I can.

I’m lucky because I’ve been part of circus for so many years that I understand a lot of the acts.

What is the seer real? What is the Hulu back? What are the aerialists? What’s a tight rope? What’s a high wire? I know a lot of what these acts are, but describing them to someone who’s never seen them was the trick. So I needed to increase my vocabulary, but also make it down to earth simplistic and really describe what the actual physical movements of the body and the person are not necessarily technical terms.

So it’s like preparing for a role in the theater and then you have to throw it away and be in the moment.

TR:
Liz, who is also a costume designer and producer, brings all of that plus her extensive knowledge and experience as a circus performer to AD. The combination of her and Carl who she says is great at describing the technical enables her to sprinkle interesting facts about other details.

Liz:
So I can talk about the sparkling outfits and what they’re made of, I can talk about the Top Hats and the colors of the lights changing from a design point of view, a costume point of view, and you don’t always have time for all of that. So I also do a big prep, I also have quite a bit of pre show available that I rewrite in advance, so that if kids come 15 minutes early, and if technically have time in the theater, I can give a lot of background on each and every act, or the biggest moments, including costumes and descriptions of the people in the show that you may not have time for in the moment. Because circus happens really fast.

TR:
This sounds like the approach heard in sports. Play by play commentator paired with another who provides interesting facts and adds color to the broadcast.

Liz:
For me, it’s the essence of what’s happening emotionally, for the audience, because it helps bring them into the moment of the danger of the excitement and the anticipation of the moment that maybe they’re going to miss or maybe they’re going to make it. Now those things I think innately are in the timing and the tenor of my voice. I think it makes a better show.

I’ll go like (Starts in a whisper and moves to louder more excited voice) “And now, walking up the thing, and the thing and they turn and they flip and they go!”

TR in conversation with Liz:
And that’s such a big difference from standard audio description for a film or a Broadway production. Have you ever done any of those?

Liz:
I’m starting to really

TR in conversation with Liz:
Okay, So what’s the difference like for you? Because it’s less emoting.

Liz:
First, that was shocking. I couldn’t even speak. Like, I’m sitting there, I say, and he moves on, and the lights come up, and then they talked for like, 30 minutes. It was so weird for me. I’m used to talking non stop because you can’t talk over the dialog, right.
So then you kind of have to follow a script. But if I’m following a script, I’m not in the moment as much.

TR:
Being in the moment never replaces the need for preparation.

Liz:
I would watch the videos over and over and over again, if I get my hands on them. I go to a dress rehearsal , and then I’ll go to a show. So there’s a ton of prep.

TR:
This is a public service announcement!

If we do the math and calculate the hourly rate based on the actual amount of time put into preparing and describing live theater, well, let’s just say this group is highly under paid.

Automation and artificial intelligence isn’t the way to resolve that rather it’s changing the way we think about access.

That concludes our public service announcement.

Liz:
I would try to talk to the producers in the playwrights and the actors, I still like to ask an actor how they want to be called.
How do they want to be described not necessarily how I would see them.

Different people from all races and cultures want to be described differently.

TR in conversation with Liz:
Is it easier within the circus to get access then in Broadway or Off Broadway plays?

Liz:
It’s easier for me in the circus because generally like Omnium I’ve been with them for so many years. I know a lot of people, these are my friends. I’m doing one show for a whole season.

TR:
Outside of Omnium, Liz doesn’t always have the opportunity or permission to directly speak with the performers. But, Liz is spunky, she was a clown after all!

Liz:
I’ll just show up grab people. While they’re offstage, I’ll just show up and work my way and being sweet and funny. That always works. Kindness goes a long way. I think most people feel happy that you’re asking.

TR in conversation with Liz:
It’s a combination of probably parents and children. Who are you describing for in your mind?

Liz:
More like family audiences. I think the good thing about the circus is that anyone in that room feels like they’re five years old. First of all, but you can’t talk down to people and especially children, like children are a lot smarter and hipper than anything. So even when I’m working with a two year old, I’m not treating them like a baby.
Fun and energetic but not too super technical.

TR in conversation with Liz:
do you have any favorite acts that stick out to you that you really like to describe?

Liz:
Well, I love to describe the clown acts, because I’m a clown myself. So I love to describe the comic timing.

I like to add narrative to a silent comedy routine. is really fun because I’m a silent comedian, physical comedian.

TR in conversation with Liz:
What type of things are you describing?

Liz:
Well, like their first facial expressions, like if you have a comedy team, like we have dick and Tiffany, Monday and Riley in the show, I’ve known them their whole lives. So like, take a look over at her she’ll kind of flip her head. And it’d be like, she’s not super happy. He better watch out. She’s gonna smack him on. Oops, she did. She smacked him on the butt.

Liz:
there’s like silly beats that happened.

TR:
With two describers, Liz and Carl can bounce off one another to really bring out the emotion of what’s taking place visually.

Liz:
He’ll be like, Oh, no, he didn’t. And I go, Oh, yes, he did. Like, well, we get into like a comedy routine about it. We’ll do it together.

We have a pretty good trading off back and forth repartee that goes on, and just happens naturally.
And we’re lucky because we can both improvise really? Well. He’s a great actor, singer, dancer, Director. So we’re both good at improvising. And I think we’re both aware of each other’s strengths, I would say. Plus, we would do the same show over and over, especially at the very beginning, we did the same show, like for an entire season. So then you have your rhythm and beats and we’re kind of rehearsed in a way we kind of go oh, we kind of know each other’s parts a little bit. That’s

TR in conversation with Liz:
That’s like a show within the show.

TR:
The circus is about two hours with a 15 minute intermission. I can imagine it really helps to have multiple describers working together.

Omnium also offers one hour special events for schools. Exposing even more children to the joys of the circus.

In fact, during some of the special events, some of these children may not realize it, but the ring master was once in their seat.

Brian:
. Ladies and gentleman now.
Um, woof. My neighbors are probably like, What the heck is he doing?

I’ve been really learning about circus.

The ring masters used to use these booming voices because back in the day, there was no microphones.
There was a term called Barker.

Hurry, hurry, hurry, step right up, step right up. Hurry, hurry. Not sure if it was the same concept as the ringmaster. But it was kind of similar, but then the ringmaster wouldn’t have a mic neither. So they would have to project their voice and otherwise, you wouldn’t hear anything.

So that’s why there’s been a tradition of keeping the voice, they had to use those big, loud heavy duty. Voice commands.

TR:
That’s right, Brian has served as ring master during some of these events, which sometimes offer open audio description.

TR in Conversation with Brian:
So while you ring mastering Do you listen to it as well.

Brian:
Oh, my goodness, good question.
I was able to follow through with the audio description cues. That helped me a lot immensely when it came to, you know, okay. It’s time for me to say this, or Okay, I’m gonna do this now.

TR:
It’s always important to remind folks that access is not just about consumption. Disabled folks are not only participants, but we are makers of art, content, technology, accessibility and more. Removing this perspective of the conversation continues to leave us out of all sorts of spaces.

So what other access is available at Omnium?

Brian:
we have open ASL in the show. You’re gonna see everything that’s said in the show. What the ringmaster is saying everything. What the Ringmasters singing all that you you’ll be able to see it because there is live open ASL interpretation at the show.

sensory friendly, very important. For those who are neurodiverse who may be sensitive to sound or light. The house lights are not completely off. And the sound decibels
at a decibel where it’s suitable for everyone.

We have a common area with little activities you can do like markers or drawing
you’re gonna have your few people that may be a little overwhelmed that need a break. And that’s okay.

TR:
Of course that includes wheel chair access and closed captions wherever possible.
Brian
we want it to be as inclusive as possible for all, that’s why we are America’s first comprehensively inclusive circus.

TR:
Big shout out to Brian Velasquez, Lisa Lewis and Liz Bolick, you’re each official members of the Reid My Mind Radio Family.

I don’t care who you are, if you’re hearing or reading this episode, Omnium is for you. Take your children, grand children, students, athletes … you can always take me, I’m a forever five year old.

Honestly, I wanted to get out to see them when they were in New York this year but unfortunately scheduling didn’t workout. But I will get there and hope you do the same.

For the current schedule and links to social media visit OmniumCircus.org.

Another Public service announcement If you’re not registered to vote, please do so.
We’re in some serious times and I hope and encourage you all to get out there and vote. In person or absentee mail in, I really don’t care, just make it happen.

I appreciate you rocking with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.

It’s come to my attention that some don’t think I spell it enough… seriously!
You got to spell it right, that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)

Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:
Last time on Reid My Mind Radio

— Audio Transition
— From Flipping the Script on Audio Description: NO ONE WILL SAVE US

TR:
Now that we heard from someone quite familiar with captions, do you think that’s the bar we as advocates for audio description should be striving to reach?

Think about that while I bring on our next guests

— Music begins, a bright mid-tempo beat!
Eric
Hi, my name is Eric Wickstrom. I am the director of audio description for international digital center. pronouns are he him?

Rhys
Hi, my name is Rhys Lloyd. I’m the studio head for Descriptive Video Works. My pronouns are he him.

TR:
When anyone asks me for examples of quality audio description tracks for networks and streaming platforms, IDC and DVW are the two I tell people to check out.

Are their others? Yes. But they don’t check off the boxes that these two do.
Let’s keep it real! IDC helped kick off the inclusion and hiring of Blind narrators. Their not the first, but to my knowledge they’ve done the most. If I’m wrong, please educate me – ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

DVW also is doing the same and employs Blind QC.

— Audio Transition
TR:
Welcome back to Reid My Mind Radio.

We’re in the final episode of the Flipping the Script on Audio Description season or part two of No One Will Save Us.
We’re taking a look at the current state of audio description in order to determine how
we can best advocate for improved quality and a wider adoption.

If you haven’t listened to part one, pause here and take a listen. We’ll wait!

Ok, you’re back? Let’s get it!

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:

When I invited Eric and Rhys to join me on the podcast,
I asked them each to bring three to five issues that most threaten the future of AD and some thoughts as to what we can do about them.

Eric:
I mean, there’s a few things that stand out. Obviously, TTS synthetic speech, however you want to phrase it, I think that’s a problem.
It impacts our voiceover folks. But it also affects every area downstream for audio description.

A lot of companies that have no business being in this space are in this space. And they’re in it in major ways.

I don’t have access to enough quality writers day in and day out. Sometimes I feel like really, truly great writers. So if I don’t have access to it, these companies definitely don’t. But somehow they’re managing to crank out absurd amounts of audio description, with people that have no business writing it or being involved in it.

The quantity is more than it’s ever been. And because of that the quality is lesser than it’s ever been, which is a sad reflection on it.

TR:

While there’s definitely a relationship between TTS and the influx of companies less concerned with quality, we’ll consider these as two separate issues.

Eric:
And then we have ongoing problems, in my opinion, with a lack of folks of color, being involved in the writing process, and in the voice over process.

I think the fourth thing that’s problematic right now still is the lack of involvement from members of the blind community in the process of creating audio description, whether it be voiceover writing, QC, what have you. I don’t think many companies are doing a good enough job still involving folks in the community.

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
Cool. Rhys?

Rhys:

Ditto!

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:

Laughs…

Rhys:
The only thing that sits outside of that, that I would add to it is that we still haven’t solved this devilish problem of accessibility content, traveling with the content and moving from service to service

I feel like this is my sort of, DaVinci Code like I’m trying to solve this, this and solvable mystery, and I think the answer is that there that that is really, really straightforward. because it’s so straightforward, it’s remained unsolved.

And then maybe one other thing I would throw in is that I don’t think there’s enough people in prominent positions in audio description that are thinking about what it could be, who are pushing the industry forward. I think there’s Eric, there’s the folks at DVW that I work with, but I don’t sense pressure coming from behind to make me go, oh, I need to be even more on it. Because there’s other people who are like really pushing the envelope out there, both whether it’s creatively, or whether it’s like looking at the broad reach. We’re really, at a really early stage of audio description, if you think about how visual our world is, and how inaccessible that is, including all the video content that exists on the internet that is untouched.

TR:
Let’s start with the problem of the pass through or the idea that audio description should travel with the content.
This would eliminate the problem of turning on one channel to watch a film that you know had AD in the theater or on a different streaming network,
but it’s not available on the current platform.

Eric:
This is my opinion, Rhys , you can correct me if you think I’m wrong. Unlike captioning, which is mandated federally to be on everything, everything has to have captioning, we’re still picking and choosing based on I don’t know what criteria is, what has to have audio description, and what doesn’t. So it’s only when that content comes into the worlds of the big top cable networks at the top streaming services, places where they’re being legally mandated, where they have to commission those files. So those files, then live at that individual streaming service, or that individual network, instead of living with the content from inception, like it should. Like the captioning does. captioning has to live with the asset before it goes anywhere.

So if we can get audio description being mandated on every asset level, like captioning, that would solve that problem entirely.

The other way to solve that is networks communicating.

TR:
Doesn’t that seem like a simple solution; communication?

Eric:
I think the simplest answer is, it’s too much still left to the individual networks to deal with, instead of having it being, you know, inherent to the assets at inception every time.

Rhys:
I would totally agree with you on that.

I sort of see the solution to the pass through being that instead of it being a pull, it has to be a push instead of the downstream content rights holder, remembering to ask for it. It should be pushed with all the other assets, it should just be automatic. If those who have the asset and are licensing it to someone else, we’re just to go, Hey, here’s the AD track. I mean, I don’t know what happens in those negotiations. But I can’t imagine the cost of that being exponential given the investment. I do see a push model works better than a pull model in this case.

TR:
With all of the technology available to us today, communication shouldn’t be an issue.
It’s such a quicker fix compared to enacting legislation.

Rhys:
I’ll take a slightly more optimistic view.

I don’t think it necessarily requires the legislation to be enacted, I think people like to get ahead of legislation because they don’t want to be slammed by the requirement and have no idea what they’re going to do. And because I think this is a relatively simple problem to solve, I think it any hint that this is going to be included in future legislation would probably Unbreak that dam.

I’ve had this dream of like getting everybody in a room and going can we all have a grown up conversation. There are impediments, but none of them are insurmountable, and just require somebody at each of these organizations to focus on it. And, and then however we up making that happen, as an industry remains to be seen.

Eric:
The other issue is, quantity is important but we need to focus on quality because, you know, if we mandate that every network has to have audio description, I can promise you, Rhys and I are not going to get much busier, but there’s gonna be a bunch of companies that are going to be slammed with work and doing a very poor job.

It’s important that everything is accessible, but it needs to be properly accessible.
There has to be a quality product otherwise why are we doing it in the first place? Take some pride in it.

TR:
Next up, let’s talk about getting more Blind people involved in every aspect of the AD production process.

Rhys:
I go a step further. It’s not just about the production aspects of this. I think that there’s all too many people involved in the creation of audio description, whether that be our clients or the companies that produce audio description, who’ve never met a blind person, never had a conversation with a blind person about audio description.

It’s also I think, incumbent on companies like ours that specialized in this field, to elevate the voices of the community and to put people in positions where they’ll interact with the clients. And so that that is an opportunity organically, to start to hear from the community.

I’ll just say that I think it’s shameful in our industry, how few companies are actively trying to hire, Blind talent. The impediments not significant, and I think both, I don’t want to speak for Eric, but I know that he’s been open about sharing information with me and with other companies, I’ve been the same in terms of like, the talent that’s out there, the approach the how we work in the recording booths, how we work with blind QC talent, and, and so it’s not like there’s this like, secret sauce, that we’re all keeping hidden. We were both out there talking about it. Because we want other people to do it.

TR:
I think the secret sauce is the understanding that the impediment is not significant. It’s the willingness to go beyond the current process and consider accommodations.
That goes beyond anything Blind talent can bring to the table.

It’s almost understandable when you consider how from it’s start, the production of AD has closely aligned with a charity model. Like rehab or social services where the so called experts who studies blindness
determine what Blind people need with little to no involvement FROM THE COMMUNITY.

Rhys:
I will say that I think more blind involvement raises the quality of the audio description, simply because it getting that voice into the creation. And it’s making sure that perspective is represented in the creation. And if you don’t think that’s important, then you don’t think quality is important.

Eric:
100%. What I’ve said many times is that I don’t think there should be anything proprietary about accessible workflows, I think that that if you figure something out, share it.

Actually, Thomas, to your credit, if we’re going to go even one step further back through talking to you and onboarding you, and working through our first project together and developing the workflows to work with blind voice over talent, I learned a lot. And then I worked with other folks, and they wanted to do a different way. So you know, over the course of the first year and a half, we had four to five different workflows that we just developed. And Reese called me up, and he said, tell me what’s up. And so we did, we got on a call. And we talked and I made that same offer to half a dozen other people and only one other person has ever taken me up on it.

TR:
While not many companies reached out to Eric, there were some who were still interested in working with Blind talent.

Personally, I don’t want my accommodation to remotely approach being an over burdening task for someone.
Then again, over burdening is in the eye of the beholder.

Remember, during the pandemic, the workflow changed for everyone.
AD Narrators were scrambling to setup home studios.
Scripts and voice files were being delivered via the internet. Whether that was through some secured proprietary system or via cloud services like Drop Box, the workflow was similar.

Here’s the thing, once a company realizes it’s process is inaccessible to assistive technology
and refuses to adjust or accommodate for that,
that company is making a decision to exclude Blind professionals. Period!

Eric:
just three weeks ago, Thomas I had a phone call or an email from another company seeking to work with a blind talent. But telling me, they’re not set up for it. They’re not planning on getting set up for it. So would I mind doing all of the work to record the talent, s them the raw stems, they would then take credit for the project and put it out there like look, we’re working with Bline people, but they didn’t want to do any of the legwork to actually set themselves up to do the work.

They wanted me to do all the work so they could take all the credit this happened like within the last month, and
This is a big company. I’m not going to name names But I could, but it’s a big, much bigger company.

The conversation was embarrassing, but they felt no shame having it with me.
I don’t know if it’s coming across that it’s frustrating. I’m annoyed by it.

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
A little bit.

TR:
I appreciate that frustration.

This conversation is specifically about audio description, but as we approach National Disability Employment Awareness Month in October, we need to consider that whatever is at the core of keeping Blind people out of AD is applicable to every other industry.

What can be done to change this?

Eric:
I engage on social media. But it wasn’t really until you and I connected Thomas, where like, it started becoming this, this really accelerated workflow, to try to get people involved in the process, But in fairness, that’s because Liz Guttman and I had that conversation, hey, we think this is important. We need to start doing this.

And then as soon as we started doing it, I think Rhys kind of around the same timeframe. He was like, Yeah, us too.
I thought that after we did it, everybody will be like, Yeah, let’s all do it, and not the case, which is incredible.

Rhys:
To that point, I think part of the reason we would have had that expectation is I think it coincided with an increase in the quality of work that both our companies are producing. I don’t know if that’s coincidental or directly related, but I think that’s true. And also, I like to be perfectly blunt, it’s more interesting and more fun to do it this way. And why wouldn’t you try to make the work you do more interesting and more fun, and more meaningful?
It’s a little bit of additional thought. Your thoughts are free, so spend a bit of that thought.

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
The lack of BIPOC writers and narrators.
How does this get resolved?

Rhys:
I think anyone with a conscience and a sense of things can step back from AD and recognize that we have a representation issue is industry. I think that the vast, the overwhelming majority of speaking only about English audio description, but the English audio description that’s being produced is being written by white people.

I know that every AD writer strives for some level of objectivity. But the reality is that everybody sees things through subjective lens.
I think we are getting homogeneity of description, just demographically.

In terms of what can you do about it?

That’s a little bit more complicated. It requires a little bit of investment, and willingness to spend some time digging, willingness to find allies willingness to push harder, and to call out that it’s a problem and then do something about it, instead of just calling up that its a problem and walking away from it.

TR:
When it comes to this issue of representation, if we really want to fix it, it can’t be a patch work approach. It needs to be a part of the foundation.
And with all do respect to those who laid the AD foundation, cultural competence was never a part of that core structure.

Rhys:
I’ve been asked why it’s important. What is the value of having culturally appropriate casting in a show?

One aspect of it is not discord for the audience, that’s important. But the thing is, the actual work done is going to be done better by somebody for whom the content is meaningful. And the experience of working on that project for everyone involved is going to be better if the content is meaningful to the people who are working on it. You actually elevate the product. Not only are you not doing something wrong, you’re doing something better.

Eric:
As far as the writers, Rhys and I are gonna have some cross pollination on this one.

So there’s a film festival out of Philadelphia called the BlackStar Film Festival, that we’ve worked with at IDC for a couple of years now doing some tracks for them. And last year, they did a Writing Lab, where we were not involved with. But then after the festival, I reached out to the organizers of the festival and Liz Guttman , and I talk to them.
So this year, Liz did level one training with them. And then I got wind that the next step was going to be Rhys , taking them in the fall and doing a level two.

Rhys:
We’re launching an initiative to train some writers from underrepresented communities in the AD scripting community where that’s happening in September.
It’s an internal initiative. We’re doing it on our own dime. These AD writers will come up with strong training and be available for anybody to hire. There’s no like, they’ll become DVW employees so that there’s opportunities for Eric to benefit from that for any of the other AD providers to benefit from that.

It was something where I tried to figure out this problem was like how do I like leverage this for my Helping companies benefit for years. And then I realized, you know what the rationale is? I don’t I just need to do it for the services benefit. So we’re trying to increase it, or at least we DVW are. And I know IDC are very much aligned with us on, from this perspective, trying to increase the number of different voices that are allowed to participate in this conversation about AD.

TR:
Meanwhile, IDC continued to work with the BlackStar cohort of writers. They even received some level 2 training from IDC head writer Liz Guttman.

Eric:
And they got to work hand in hand with Steven Christopher, one of my writers, and one of the best QC guys in the business and did really in depth feedback on all the scripts.

some really took to it well, others obviously needed some more work, like anything, but it was really encouraging. I think there was eight to 10 people we got to work with. And I think the vast majority are going to be going on now to DVW and continuing on into more training. I actually onboarded one of them this morning officially to write something for Netflix for me, which is super exciting.

And coincidentally, a documentary based around the black experience in America in the history of racism. So like timing wise, it’s exactly the kind of project that we’ve been clamoring to have folks from the community available to write to reach this point. Today, because it’s important for the perspective and the point of view.

It’s been something that I know I’ve been personally frustrated about because we’ve tried over the years we have tried outreach, we’ve on boarded folks. This has been an ongoing pursuit for the last couple of years. And I think we finally found a pipeline through Blackstar to do this.

TR:
I for one am excited about growing the AD space to include more representation. But let’s be clear, that’s not a replacement for cultural competence.

Eric:
just because you’re white doesn’t mean you can’t write something that’s sensitive, and proper that focuses around black issues, you just have to be curious enough to want to do a good job.

There was a movie a few years ago called The harder they fall on Netflix, that Liz wrote. And she spent a lot of time researching the clothes in the hairstyles and reaching out the people and saying, How would you like that to be described?

Really trying to do a good job to the point where it actually got written up on a blog for being so well done in terms of representing skin tones and hairstyles and being called out for members of the Black community for being so culturally proper or sensitive or trying to do a good job in those regards.

Now, at the time, do we wish we had a writer of color to write that script? We absolutely did. But that doesn’t mean that we can take the excuse of like, Oh, we’re just white folks. No, you have to still try to get in there and honor the material and be proper and respectful of it.

TR:
It’s worth taking a look at how that curiosity works to strengthen the final product.

Eric:
I always credit when I hired Liz, to write for me, I had a great base of writers. But that’s really when we took the next step to becoming what I feel like we’ve become one of the leaders in the field.

A lot of what made Liz great and makes her great now, is her curiosity. She’s constantly going to workshops, she’s constantly talking to members in the community. She’s constantly reading research papers and things that I can’t even my brain, I just glaze over.

She’s always digging deeper and figuring more stuff out.
How do we make it better? How do we get to the next level.
And again, it’s never good enough for us, we want to be better.
We don’t always get there when we try.
If that’s not your goal every day getting up going to work. Like if you’re not taking pride in your job every day, like I’m going to do a great, I’m gonna do better today than I did yesterday, then you should find something else to do that fulfills you in some way, because clearly this is not it.

Rhys:
I think there’s a dearth of people in our field that are driven by curiosity. I think we need more people who are looking broadly at like, what can be done, or is the industry ready for this? What little steps can I take today to get the industry ready for that tomorrow?
And so whereas I think, and justifiably so to some degree, the vast majority of people who work in our field are very production focused. We are because the production deadlines are intense. The expectations of our clients are quite substantial. And there’s contractual obligations that we have to hit. But at the same time, sometimes, especially in a field like ours, which is still really in a nascent stage, the ability to step back and go, oh, like, I wonder about this. I’m curious about this. I want to find out more about it. We need more people being able to do that. We need more people driven by the interest in doing that.

TR:
That’s writing AD. What about cultural awareness when it comes to narration?

Rhys:
There’s just no excuse, like.
The reality is that there’s a vast array of voice talent that’s out there. It’s not all equivalent, right? There’s some really kick ass scenario, here’s and there’s some less skilled ones. But there is no excuse not to find a narrator that’s a appropriate cultural match for the content that you’re describing.

You can get really, really down in the weeds about it, if you want to, we’ve gone to great depths to try to find somebody who’s very specifically aligned with that skill set. And we’ve had some successes and some where we came up a little bit short, but that’s because we try we pushed it out there as far as we could.

Could I find a Kurdish narrator in the UK who’s deaf to just do the narration for this track? Well, no, but I did find a Kurdish narrator in the UK. And so that was a win in that respect. We found somebody who’s culturally appropriate for the content that we were describing. And that was the first very specific project.
Thoughtful casting cost you nothing to think about.
And not every show requires thoughtful casting, there are very generic shows that can just be relatively generically assigned, but there are shows that demand it. And if you as an AD provider, don’t take that responsibility seriously. Why not? What is your impediment?

Eric:
I mean, come on. It’s at the point now where it’s, it’s literally embarrassing.
I had well over a dozen narrators of color on my roster. I probably posted 20 At this point between Latin and black backgrounds in Caribbean and you know, down the line, East Asian.
I have a wide collection of narrators. Again, anybody listening? They’re available, you just have to email me.
Rhys has called me before and hey, is this person available? And then I s the email address and he reaches out and they go from there.
These are freelancers, they are available. So if you’re stuck and you need somebody, call me.

It’s now August 2023. And there are no good excuses. There was no good excuses five years ago for this and now it’s pathetic.

If your basis of diversity in your voiceover roster is still man woman, the end, you’re a clown.
If you’re justifying that to anyone that that’s good enough, you’re a clown, and you deserve to be called out for it.
I would be embarrassed to do some of these things that some of these companies are doing. It’s shameful. And I hope more people shame them publicly, because I don’t know what it’s gonna take just to do the minimal right thing. I don’t get it.

Rhys:
By the way, this being an audio format, there was some vigorous nodding.

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
So far, the quote of the day is you are a clown!

Rhys:
we needn’t stop it like culturally appropriate casting of people of color.
People of color can narrate the generic stuff too.
Eric:

Oh a thousand percent!

Rhys:
You won’t find those great narrators if you don’t work with them.

Eric:
That’s a great point Rhys . Thank you.
If you’re a narrator of color working with me, you will work it’s like the stuff that is meant to be voiced by people of color. That’s the stuff exclusive to that part of the roster.
right, like people like me are not going to narrate things, you know, from the Black community. But, yes, you can cross pollinate to any other generic content.

TR:

Eric shares some additional advice for voice over artists who traditionally
choose not to disclose their various identities in hopes of having their voice judged on it’s quality alone.

Eric:
Don’t be afraid to put a picture on your website, or put a little thing in your bio, about your background, whether it be your nationality, LGBTQ we’re looking for that.

Make it easier to find you. I think more companies are now scrambling, pathetically, to try to catch up a little bit. Now standing out is actually I think, a good thing in some cases.

TR:
We reached our final two categories;
the influx of companies less concerned with quality or as Eric so eloquently described them,
Eric:
You’re a clown.

TR:
And then there’s the dreaded TTS.

Since the clowns and TTS are so closely aligned, we’ll discuss them as one.

The clowns are companies that first, saw the need for audio description production as an opportunity.
While there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that, based on their actions and quality of production,
it’s apparent, that’s their greatest concern.

So they look for cost cutting like hiring anyone to write the scripts and
skip parts of the process like quality control.

All of this to undercut competitors and offer below market rates for AD production.

Eric:
it’s a free market, right.

The issue you run into is that companies come in and throw a wide net out there, and they say, Hey, give me bids.

And then you have other companies out there, streaming services and stuff that’s coming online recently, that don’t really put any effort or any, any research into trying to identify the good providers. They don’t try to narrow it down to five or six providers that do good work, and then set a rate. In a perfect world, that’s what would happen, every company would have a set group of providers they work with, they would set the rate internally, across the board. So nobody can undercut anybody or has any real incentive to undercut anybody. And that would be it. But we’re in a free market. And we live in North America.

— “And now it’s time to play everybody’s favorite game show, Say the Word!” Audio from Sesame Street

TR:
Can you say capitalism?

The truth is, everywhere you look, there’s someone trying to make a fast dollar by cutting costs and sacrificing quality.

Remember Economics class? Caveat Emptor or Let the buyer beware. Consumers of all types should be educated enough to know the value of what they’re buying.
In this case, we’re talking about large companies, networks and streaming services that frankly have no experience with audio description. So, how can they even begin to define quality AD? Yet still they’re procuring millions of dollars in AD for old and new content.

RHYS:
They’re being misguided, misled because they’re talking to the clowns. They’re talking to people who are trying to sell them on something. They’re not necessarily talking to the audience.

I always encourage them, Are you sure, have you spoken to anybody about this? Has anybody told you by the way the audience doesn’t like this.

But the other part of this is an AD providers. If you’re confronted with that conversation, what do you do? Do you just go? Yes, sir, we can do it? Or do you go and take that opportunity to talk to them about what they’re asking for, to take that opportunity to go? Are you sure that the experience you want your audience to have of your content? That is your precious, precious item is a subpar experience? Because it doesn’t need to be.

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
Wow, so you telling me that companies come to you? And they say we want TTS?

Eric:
100 percent.

Rhys:
Yeah!

TR:
So it’s not just that these platforms are being sold TTS,we’re in a place now where they’re actually shopping for it.

Eric:
There’s this thing with some companies that are starting to divide what they think is important content, and what they don’t think is such important content.
A lot of kids programming is being thrown into that not as important pile where synthetic is being used. And that, to me is a complete bummer. Because if anybody needs a real voice to engage with, and if anybody’s gonna get turned off by a computer voice, it’s a kid, and especially kids on the spectrum, kids with ADHD, they’re immediately going to just walk away from that content.

TR:
Too often , I hear members of the community who seem to feel these distinctions are warranted.

Just because you may not have an interest in specific content, that doesn’t mean it’s less important.

And quite honestly if you’re not of the intended audience and don’t require AD to consume visual content,
perhaps you should speak less on it and pass the mic so the community can speak for it’s self.

Eric
There are people out there that are pretty big in the industry in terms of visibility, saying TTS is okay, for certain things for backfill or movies that are more than 20 years old. And we should just be happy that things are getting described.

I don’t think anybody should be happy getting scraps and crumbs to make up for the fact that they weren’t fed 30 years ago originally.

TR:
I don’t know about you, but I’m hungry! And I know I deserve a full hearty delicious meal.

Eric:
There are clients coming to us that have produced some of the great, I’m talking some of the greatest content in the history of television in North America. And they’re talking to me about synthetic.
And I’m like I would feel bad putting a synthetic track on this.
I feel bad, you should feel worse, because it’s your content, you should have more pride in getting this described properly.

The cost difference for companies like us to do synthetic versus real Voicing is minimal.
for Rhys and I, companies that really care, the cost difference between TTS and real voice. It’s not worth it. It’s not a huge number, where the cost saving is so extreme that a client should even really want to entertain at this point, in my opinion.

Rhys:
We spent so much time in this conversation talking about diversity of casting and thoughtful casting, and then you give me a computer program that has three usable voices. Well, what am I supposed to do with that? How thoughtful can I get about the casting of A, B, or C voice? I can’t.

Eric:
Now, they’re starting to do this TTS stuff where they have black voices, quote, unquote, you know what I mean, and it’s just this, like, over the top, almost character voice.

This idea that like, black people sound the same, white people sound the same.
There’s dialects and there’s accents, and there’s nuance.
It’s like this generic voice, it’s quasi racist in all ways. It’s silly.

Rhys:
And it goes beyond just the sound of the voice, right? Great narration track is often done by somebody who’s connecting to the material. Well, you know, who doesn’t connect to material? TTS doesn’t connect to the material, there’s no lived experience of being LGBTQ for a TTS voice. Whereas you get the human narrator, skilled, who’s doing content of that type, in the connection that they come through, it’s not performative, but it’s subtle, but it’s there, and it’s present. If you’re an adept listener of audio description, you can hear it, that person gives a crap about what they’re doing. And
we stand to lose all of that.
Does TTS serve a function in audio description? 100%.
How to videos on YouTube, go for it. That’s an entirely reasonable application for TTS. But if you’re taking premium content, what is it you’re trying to achieve by doing that?

Eric:
The answer all your questions in life is money. That’s the old cliche.
It’s a pathetic thing that I have to say, but that’s really the answer. It’s always comes down to money.

For some reason, no one’s been able to figure out how to make money on AD at this point, which I don’t understand. There’s still a very big void and lack of audio description in commercials, which I think you know, how we never as a business came around to like, Procter and Gamble sponsoring this AD track.
Figuring out a way into product placement into the AD track, kind of like they’ve done in movies over the years.
There should have been a more thoughtful approach to monetizing this art form years ago, and that would have solved a lot of these problems, but were the horses out of the barn and made a left and it’s for four farms over at this point.

Rhys:
I liked the idea here Eric of an AD narrate or drinking a grimace shake while narrating mentioning that that’s what they’re doing.
sponsored AD track, I like this,

Eric:
It sounds a little silly and out there, but McDonald’s is gonna want a high quality product to go with their product.

Rhys:
We see that in live audio description, a lot of the times we’ll have a corporate sponsorship, whether it’s the Olympics or an award show, there’s no reason that that couldn’t trickle down.

TR:
It sounds like a natural fit, especially for network broadcasters who already have relationships with advertisers.
But I’m sure the streaming services like Netflix, Max and others could make this happen.
Then just leave it to the accountants to identify other financial benefits for the company.

From the consumer position, we’re already used to sponsored ads and programming.

With all of the issues we identified and discussed today, it’s extremely important that we as consumers are fully aware of our power.
And we shouldn’t be scared to flex or put it to use.

Eric:
Thomas, the first time I was on your podcast, I talked about this. Streaming companies, businesses in general, yes, they are forced to respond to negative things, but they would much rather not deal with negative things. And the best way to not deal with it, is to just give the consumer a product that they just enjoy, and that they’ll just be quiet about, right.

Rhys:
I want to keep encouraging people, hold all of us accountable. Like Eric and I are out here talking the talk, hold us accountable for walking that walk if we do something that you think is subpar, or could be done better.

Eric:
We make mistakes, we know, but we want to hear about them. That’s why we put our names on our tracks. That’s why we’re out there on social media. That’s why we’re reachable.
It’s telling, the circus providers, the clown shows, they don’t put their names on tracks.

continue to call out the bad stuff, and especially stuff that’s not being culturally appropriate because That’s disgraceful.

I think equally important, highlight the good, because it will matter, it will filter more that work to the companies that are taking pride in doing it well.

And that’s the goal. The goal is to get the product to be as good as possible. And so sometimes you just kind of have to shine a light and push the client towards that direction.

Rhys:
There’s sort of historically been the mindset of gratitude. Thank you so much for giving us audio description. And I get that because it wasn’t there. And now it’s more prevalent, but it’s not enough.

The focus on gratitude should shift into, what makes good AD. There’s different schools of thought, we’re not all going to agree on everything. That’s fine. But I think we all should have some accountability to producing that quality AD.

From a consumer advocacy standpoint, I’m glad people are grateful for the access that they have.
But access isn’t enough, it has to be better access.

It’s not much harder to perform this work well than it is to perform it badly. It’s not that much more of a time investment, it’s not that much more of a money investment, and the audience deserves better.

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
Has there ever been any conversation about the post production companies, the AD production companies coming together?

Rhys:
bringing everybody to a summit and saying, here are the problems? Let’s solve this?

TR in Conversation with Eric & Rhys:
Yeah.

Eric:
Yeah, that’s an idea! (Chuckles)

Rhys:
It’s a great idea. I’ve proposed it numerous times to numerous entities, that I thought it had more ability to sway that I won’t name them.
It’s problematic, but I think there are ways in which it could happen.

I think we’re nearing a point where more of these organizations, the content owners, the bigger studios have people who actually are focused on caring about the quality of their accessibility. Individuals within their company were tasked with it, not just project managers on a given title, but like actually overarching people who are looking at this within their organization.

The more that that exists, the more likely we are able to have productive collective conversations.

there’s a collegiality amongst this group, those who actually care about it, and those who are invested in it, to help elevate the product. And to push each other.

I pay very close attention to what Eric is doing. I support it. But I also want to know if he zigs, I want to make sure that we’re also zigging at the same time, because philosophically, there’s an alignment.
If he uncovered some awesome new thing I want to make sure we’re doing it too. And I think vice versa.
That’s where I’m also hoping others can join this idea and get behind us and start pushing Eric, and I to think in different ways, and I’m very open to that sort of level of competition.

TR:
Big thanks goes out to Eric Wickstrom and Rhys Lloyd and of course Michael McNeely from part one.
Gentlemen, I truly appreciate your time and honesty.
I’m not sure if you know this but you are each official Reid My Mind Radio family!

— Airhorn

If you want to reach out to Eric and or Rhys,
you can do that first via the formerly cool app known as Twitter now annoyingly called X.

Eric:
at IDC underscore, Eric, E R I C (Spelled out.)

Rhys:

RazLoyd R A Zed that’s my Canadian, or for those of you in the states are a Z Lloyd (spelled out)

TR:
Find them both on Linked In

Eric:
Eric Wickstrom

Rhys:
Rhys Lloyd R H Y S L L O Y D (Spelled out).

TR:
Or reach out via their respective companies.

Eric:
I DC digital.com is our corporate website and you can always send a message there, it will filter to me.

Rhys:
info at Descriptive Video works.com.
We do answer those emails.

TR:
After reviewing all of these issues and their proposed solutions,
it still feels like…

— “NO ONE WILL SAVE US!

TR:
But, if I modify that slightly, it can feel a bit more optimistic and potentially something we can solve.

No one, will save us.
So we all need to work together.
We! As in:
* AD consumers and their loved ones
* Anyone involved in the AD process (writers, audio engineers narrators etc. )
* Those in solidarity, no matter the access need
* Film makers, storytellers, producers – who want their creative work consumed and appreciated
* Broadcasters, streaming platforms

We, can each do something.

Broadcasters, streaming platforms

Hire a dedicated person and or team of individuals responsible for content accessibility. Preferably from the user communities.

Caveat Emptor – Let the buyer Beware
Can you imagine going to a car dealership and realizing there’s only a five percent difference
between the used beat up car with a hundred thousand miles, torn seats and a crappy mis match paint job versus a brand new shiny Mercedes Benz?

Unless you have a thing for hooptie’s , I’m pretty sure you’re leaving that dealership in the Benzo.

So why in the world would you purchase AD for your content that’s the equivalent of a hooptie, a lemon, junk?

How about getting together with other content platforms to assure you all play nice and share the existing AD tracks. There’s no reason titles with AD shouldn’t have AD everywhere.

Film makers, storytellers, producers – who want their creative work consumed and appreciated

Learn about AD. Consume accessible content. Consider it’s benefits to your storytelling process.
Make your content accessible, reach out to the community and increase your views.

Those in solidarity with others no matter the access need

Share! Experience AD for yourself, tell other people about it. If you have a platform invite others to talk about it.

Anyone involved in the AD process (writers, audio engineers narrators etc. )

Meet and talk to a diverse group of consumers who are Blind or have low vision. Reach out to a local organization of the Blind. Ask for input and feedback on AD. You never know, you might make a new friend.

Hopefully you are or have consumed AD.

Take pride in your work and like any career, keep getting better and don’t be scared to innovate.

— Sample “Say it with your chest!” Kevin Hart

Take the pledge – sign on to show your commitment to culturally competent AD.

If your organization isn’t currently or in the process of making space for Blind professionals in the production process,
I guess I have to just ask; how do all of you in those big red shoes fit in that little car?

AD consumers and their loved ones

First, I got a message from the gratitude gods. They said enough is enough. We deserve true access.

For those who want to accept sub par anything, that’s your choice.
But be quiet. Say less! Your not helping anyone.
Some of us know our value and we’re not lowering our standards.
Why in the world would you advocate for that.

Advocacy comes in so many forms. I know lots of folks who struggle because they feel there’s only one way.
For many, that’s through some formal organization.
Yet, some of these organizations aren’t equally welcoming
Some seem as though they exist to maintain their existence.

Some of you are great letter writers
Why not put that skill to use to seek support for the
Communications, Video, and Technology Accessibility Act.

Advocacy is taking place when we provide real feedback.
As Eric and Rhys said, that’s holding everyone accountable and sharing both the good and bad. Do it publicly, we have the tools.

Advocacy is keeping people informed. I think of Stanley Yarnell, the Sherrif of the Blind Posse.
If you haven’t heard of them, it’s a crew of AD enthusiasts who appreciate audio description in museums and galleries.
The Sherrif sends out email blasts at least monthly informing the posse of events online and in the Bay area.

Feel free to let me know what you’re doing in your area.

After hearing from Michael McNeely in part one, I’m convinced,
the state of captions are not what we’re trying to attain.
Yes, there’s a greater level of awareness, but the take away lesson to me, quality has to be the goal.

Hopefully, you can recognize that quality is something I try to pour into every episode of this podcast including
this season of Flipping the Script on Audio Description.
This is the last episode of the 2023 season and I already have some things I want to bring you next year.

Due to some existing commitments, I’m not producing another season this year.

But I truly recommend you stay tuned in because sometimes, I just get inspired.
And I’m hoping we will have more Blind Centered Audio Description Chats to share in the feed soon.

So make sure you rock with Reid My Mind Radio by following or subscribing wherever you get podcasts.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com
Just remember, that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample: (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)

Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

Hide the transcript