Reid My Mind

TR in Conversation with Andrew
sort of a silly question. But I guess you know, you could go somewhere with this. If blindness were really a country, who are you voting for President.

Andrew
You’ve got my vote Thomas.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Oh, no, I don’t want that.

TR
That’s the last time I ask a silly question. My guest today is Andrew Leland.

Andrew
Writer, Editor, Producer, Teacher, my pronouns are he him, I am a white guy with glasses, short brown hair, wearing a sweatshirt.

There’s certainly people who I think would nominate themselves. You want me to name like a particular human being?

TR in Conversation with Andrew
You don’t have to if you don’t want to. What are the qualifications that you would think would make a good president of The Country of the Blind.

Andrew
the people that I’m drawn to, generally speaking, these are people who probably don’t want to be politicians, and wouldn’t take the job. But, you know, I really love blind people who are creative and who aren’t rejecting their blindness, but they’re also not really defined by it. And they’re sort of using it as this sort of creative aspect of themselves. So it’s sort of like, not for it, not against it. But like with it.

I can pick out a number of people who I write about in the book too.

TR
Well, you’re going to have to read the book, The Country of the Blind, to find out who else can get Andrew’s vote.
I’m Thomas Reid, this is Reid My Mind Radio, and I approve this message.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR
Whether you’re blind or disabled, or in any way, identify as someone in a marginalized group, chances are you thought about what life would be like in a place where you are accepted, and your needs are centered. Maybe even just considered?

Andrew Leland’s first book, The Country of the Blind isn’t a fictional place, but rather, it’s about something much more real.

Andrew
I have a degenerative retinal condition called RP, retinitis pigmentosa. I knew that I was going blind since I was a teenager. But for a really long time, it felt abstract, distant and not worth thinking about. Another way to say not worth thinking about might be like I was sort of in denial, as I think a lot of people are with our P is very easy to be in denial about it, because it’s like, well, sure, I might be going blind. But I’m like driving a car and scoring the winning goal over here. There’s no blindness anywhere near here. And then it caught up with me.

TR
Over the years of doing this podcast, and even prior, I’ve spoken to a lot of people experiencing blindness, low vision, vision loss, no matter what you call it.
or , the reason for the loss, denial is commonplace. And so too, is the fact that it will catch up.

Andrew
I’m about to turn 43 And I would say was about 8, 10 years ago that I really started noticing blindness, intruding into my life, into my day to day in a way that I couldn’t ignore. It was around that time that I started using a white cane full time in public. As soon as I started using the white cane in front of my partner, in front of colleagues, walking down the street in front of strangers, It made me blind in the eyes of other people. It forced me to think of myself as blind. And that was really the beginning of the writing process for me.

TR
He began first exploring blindness as a journalist

— Audio clips of Andrew hosting or reporting from The Organist” and “Radio Lab” respectively.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Can you talk about the art of writing in general, and maybe how important it is and has been in your life?
Andrew
It’s one of the most important things in my life. There’s this phrase that I think about sometimes, which we usually think about in terms of like technology, which is a word processor. Microsoft word is a word processor, the computer is helping you process words, there’s something in that idea that you’re processing and kind of a lot of different ways when you’re writing emotional processing. I use the word metabolizing a lot too. There’s something that happens like an experience and the experience is a little bit just like this meal that you just swallow down but like, you’ve got to digest it. For me like writing is such a crucial part of that process of metabolizing what it is that I’m feeling and experiencing in the world.

TR:
This probably sounds familiar to those who journal and not only gives you an opportunity to purge all of the things running through your mind But literally, it enables you to process those thoughts and emotions.

Andrew
I had some ideas about what blindness meant to me. But now that I’ve written the book, I’ve kind of given myself a little bit of a map to my own feelings and my own thoughts about it that I would never have arrived at without the work of writing.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
To be a good writer, you have to be a reader. And I’m assuming you’re a big reader.

Andrew
Yes, I love reading. So when I started writing the book in 2019, I still was kind of hanging tough with print, I couldn’t even imagine a life after print is such a deep part of my life. And I was very, very unwilling to let go of it. The tricky thing about RP is it’s not like you just wake up one day, you can’t read print anymore. It’s the kind of thing where literally, it will happen over the course of a decade. And at a certain point, you have to just sort of decide like, Okay, this is actually more trouble than it’s worth

TR:
a decision, each individual has to make for themselves. Yet, there are some real world things to consider as a guideline,

Andrew
I had a Kindle, and I just like kept on cranking size up and up and up, had started to meet enough blind people and talk to enough blind people, the writing was on the wall. They were like, text-to-speech, man, it’s where it’s at. You’ve just got to listen. I just sort of went all in and kind of made it like a project for myself. Like I’m going to learn how to read text to speech. It took me a while until I found Voice Dream Reader. That app was a game changer for me. And Bookshare, which is a online library for blind and print disabled folks, which has millions of titles, those two tools in unison. That’s the power combo for me. Over the course of the last three years, while I was writing the book, I was also kind of training myself to be a blind reader.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What about Braille? You mentioned that in the book you were headed that direction?

Andrew
Yep. Yeah, I’m holding tough with Braille. I mean, it’s incredibly frustrating to be so slow, after so many years, I think I started in 2020, maybe, or 2019. Even. It’s been a journey.

TR:
In the book, Andrew discusses first learning Braille with a sighted instructor, then a season Braille reader gave him some strong advice,

Andrew
that guy’s teaching you bad habits, like get rid of him. And I was like, Oh, right. Blind people know how to read Braille, like that guy was sighted. And I don’t think he knew what he was doing. And then I found the Hadley Institute, amazing service. It’s a free mail order correspondence course, for Braille. If you hang with it, do everything they tell you to do, you’ll come out the other side with Braille. I’m still super slow. I tried to touch Braille at least once a day just to like, keep it in circulation. Last night, I tried to read a book to my kid, my father’s Dragon is a great kids book that we’ve read before. I’ve read that book a bunch of times with him already. So I sort of know the sentences, but still, I just sound like, (reading very slowly)then… he… said, hey… guys…, how long can I expect my son who’s 11 Now to like, roll with me on that. And he’s sort of like patient because he knows I’m like trying to get better. But it’s a struggle.

TR:
Every aspect of our lives are affected by disability. Jobs or our careers. Our real concern, is the way we make money, feel a sense of purpose. For many, it’s how we identify, it’s often the first thing we ask when meeting someone new, “So what do you do? ”

Prior to reading The Country of the Blind, I assumed a writer experiencing blindness would have an easier time moving forward in their career, magnification of screen reading software, along with word processes and access to the internet, chances are they can perform the work. But actually being able to perform the work is only part of the struggle

Andrew
for the kind of writing that I like to do most, which is going out into the world hanging out with people that I want to write about taking notes, and then doing research, reading articles, and so on. The heart of it is that reporting process where you’re out on the scene, long form narrative nonfiction, you gather facts, but you also gather sensory data, like any creative writer has to have sensory impressions. If you think about literature, or the novel, it’s all about these visual descriptions of people. And those are sort of these windows into their character. And so I think about that a lot, both on the level of like, just being an artist and having artful sensory descriptions that convey this kind of mood that I want, but also as a journalist, am I going to be reporting somewhere and miss the story because I can’t see it.

TR:
That’s understandable, especially if you’re new to disability and unfamiliar with an adaptive way of thinking or creating accommodations, but this is 2024. And there are lessons to be learned from those who blazed trails before we ever set foot on a new path. Andrew tells us about one such example.

Andrew
Ved Mehta, who moved to the United States from India when he was a kid. He ended up becoming a staff writer at The New Yorker, which is one of the premier places to publish that kind of narrative nonfiction. He was there during the celebrated William Sean era, writing nonfiction was one of the greatest nonfiction editors of all time.

TR:
Mehta, who was totally blind and on staff still had to deal with questioning around aspects of his Writing,

Andrew
he would write these dispatches from different places where he would talk about his subjects twinkling wintry eyes set against the mahogany Brown of his study and so on. He would have an assistant often with him, met who was doing the interview and, and he was doing the writing, but he might say to the assistant, describe his eyes for me, and use that.

TR:
precede just about any occupation with the word blind. And I’m pretty sure a version of this conversation exists, questioning the blind person’s accommodation, blind accountant, blind programmer, blind orientation and mobility instructor, blind, audio description Narrator or writer. Hmm,

Andrew
maybe if I’m using the Be My Eyes, virtual volunteer five years from now, if I’m reporting and I use that to gather some details about somebody’s pronounced cheekbones or their tousled hair, I think that that’s a totally legitimate way to report, you can look at that as an accommodation. Ved Mehta needs an assistant in some context to fully do the reporting he needs where I might need Be My Eyes to finish the job. People look at that as like almost a disqualification. You didn’t run the race unassisted, you had this help.

TR:
The unfairness, the hypocrisy, makes my blood boil.

Andrew
But, I think if you take a step back and you look at technology, or even just like tools, in general, we’re all getting assistance all the time, from each other from other people and from technology. disability might mean you need different kinds of tool, different kinds of technology, different kinds of personal assistance, but it’s not categorically different. If you think about any journalist, any writer, if they’re sighted, don’t need assistance in gathering visual details. But they certainly are reporting things that they haven’t seen with their own eyes, almost any piece of nonfiction writing will have a reconstruction. If I’m writing a story, and I want to talk about when you first became a podcaster, I might interview you and say, okay, describe the scene for me, where were you? What was the day like, what were you wearing? Tell me all of it. And then I write that scene as though I were there even though it was 20 years ago, and I was 100 miles away.

TR:
The same people questioning accommodations, go gaga for AI.
Ableism is real.
Ableism isn’t just an external thing done to those who are disabled. In The Country of the Blind. Andrew bravely shares an experience where he attends a local chapter meeting of the NFB in Missouri. Here’s an excerpt from the book with Andrew narrating.

— Andrew as Narrator
I had noticed the blind woman in a wheelchair using a strange device that looked like it somehow converted the text on a laptop screen into metallic Braille. I had noticed the other people with multiple disabilities and the modest scale at which the group was operating, arguing over how to spend their tiny publicity budget. If I had gone to the meeting to find other blind people whom I might commiserate with, or learn from or befriend, the first impression was more off putting than I had expected. Part of it was surely just geographical culture shock, but a greater part was a different kind of culture shock, or discomfort with disability.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What do you think your experience would be like? Now knowing what you know and feeling how you feel? If you went to that meeting for the first time? How do you think it would be different?

Andrew
Just to preface, it’s me being super open about the, I guess you could call it internalized ableism that I felt where I’m just looking at this group of blind people, like, what do I have in common with any of these people, like, get me out of here,

TR
Andrew receive some real criticism from blind people about this part of the book.

Andrew:
Today, in retrospect, going to that meeting now, like I know, Gary wonder was there. He’s the editor of the Braille monitor, somebody who is more engaged with blind intellectual life, which is something I’m deeply interested in, then like, most people in the in the world, that guy alone is somebody I should have, like, grabbed and had a long conversation with, but at the time, all I could see was a group of disabled people who felt very different from my image of myself. So having the patience to spend longer than I did spend at that meetup, having the courage to actually like, talk to people as people rather than just look at them through this sort of other engaged the way I do

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I get it. For folks to get mad at that, I don’t think they realize what’s really going on like you being honest about that, is that process of checking your own ableism. You can’t get to a point without doing that work.

Andrew
Totally

TR in Conversation with Andrew
putting that in the book is inviting other people to do that, too.

Andrew
Thank you for pointing that out. Plenty of blind people said to me, just what you’ve said, where they’re like, that was me. And these are people, some folks who have been blind their whole lives. It’s not like it’s only somebody who’s like, has this site privilege or somebody coming at it from the outside. I think any blind person can have that perspective, and many of them do. And I’m with you that it felt important to take that risk of making myself seem like a real jerk in order to expose some of that ableism that a lot of us carry around.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
That’s the other thing too, that you, you included your wife? Did you talk to her before you include? Because I was like, oh, yeah, I don’t know if I could do that.

Andrew
I think she’s within earshot listening to me talk to you right now. So you know, you might hear the door burst open. And you know, she might

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Come on in.

Andrew:
She might jump on the mic. But, uh, yeah, I mean, like, there were definitely moments where I was like, I want to write an interesting book. But I also want to be married for the rest of my life. And I don’t want to jeopardize that. So there were a lot of tough conversations that we had. A journalist should never give their source a copy of the text to change. You can fact check it by saying like, is this true or not. But with Lily, it was a very different situation. Like, we just sat down with the book in front of us multiple times, like and did sort of a find, for her name. And then just like, read every sentence of what do you remember about this, and a lot changed in those conversations.

TR
You can’t overstate the importance of good communication. having these conversations, no matter how uncomfortable is so important to a relationship.

Andrew
It was like a way for us to talk through some of those issues. Even though a lot of that stuff was difficult. And like, I’m sure she would have been happy to see all of her name just like completely scrubbed from the book. I think to her credit, like she recognized the importance of including for the same reason you just said about the picnic scene. I don’t think I had read a book that was really honest in that way about how difficult the partners journey can be to and the trickiness around the way that your partner is entering blindness at the same time you are, it was worth the difficulty and the risk in order to start that conversation, not just in my own family, but maybe in others as well. Then

TR:
there’s the ableism we experienced through our society. In The Country of the Blind. Andrew writes about a poem read during a service at a synagogue.

Andrew
The refrain that the poem says over and over again, is fall to your knees and thank God for your eyesight. You just sort of have to sit there with your family, as like a whole room of people just sort of appreciates that they aren’t blind. I certainly still encounter it. I think one thing that’s changed is that that moment marked the kind of beginning I think for not just me, but for my family to sort of have a politics around it. It was kind of wild to me that Lily found it annoying. And then it wasn’t just me.

TR:
Everyone in the family is adjusting to disability. The question is, will that be done alone, or together?

Andrew
My son, I feel like I’ve sort of trained him to be a critical thinker about it. I will be watching something and he’ll sort of perk up when there’s like a disability reference that seems off. He’s in fifth grade. And at the beginning of the year, they were doing this exercise about guidelines for how to be a good community for each other. And one of them was like, be respectful. Even if the person has a disability. The line that caught his ear was even if they have a disability. He raised his hand and was kind of like I don’t know about like, even and the teacher was like, oh, yeah, that’s good. Like something was bothering me about that. But I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. To me that shows that he is really internalizing some of these critical disability thinking that I’ve sort of come to that makes me feel really proud and excited.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What’s your son’s name?

Andrew
Oscar.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Is that like a head nod to your grandfather?

Andrew
It is. It is.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
Oh, very cool. (Laughing)

Andrew
He was a playwright. His name was Neil Simon, one of his best known plays that got turned into a TV show and a movie was “The Odd Couple”.

— Music begins Theme song from The Odd Couple
— Narration from the opening of the Odd Couple
On November 13, Felix Unger was asked to remove himself from his place of residence. That request came from his wife.

Andrew
my wife, Lily, when we were trying to think of baby names. She said, Well, what about Felix? My first thought was the odd couple because Felix is the sort of more fastidious neurotic member of the odd couple. I was like, No, it can’t be Felix. Oscar, that’s who you want to name a baby after.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
A hearty laugh!

Andrew
. She wasn’t even thinking of “The Odd Couple”.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I hope he’s not like Oscar though. He’s not pulling out sandwiches from the bed?

Andrew
He’s got a little bit of both, I would say.

— The Odd Couple theme music comes to an end.

— Music begins A funky baseline opens to a smooth mid tempo R&B groove.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What was your experience, if any, with disability arts prior to 10 years ago, when you opened up your cane?

Andrew
Hmm. That’s a good question. I think I’d encountered it in the art world. When I first learned about the work of Christine Sun Kim. She’s a Deaf artist who does really interesting work around like sound or like representations of sound, interesting stuff with captions. That would have been on that level, or certainly, like mainstream blind musicians, that would have hit me on that mainstream level. That movie, like I think Sound of Metal, but really, it was not on my radar.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
If they’re in the mainstream, I don’t consider that disability culture. That’s just me. Are they making the art from a disability perspective? I think that’s the way I draw that line.

Andrew
My book is a mainstream book, you know, like it’s with a commercial publisher? Does that mean that like what I’m doing is not from a disability perspective, it’s kind of a bigger question about identity. Does your work fall under the category of the identity just by virtue of your having the identity? Or does the work have to like, be about the identity for it to be included? I think it’s kind of a spectrum.

TR
What qualifies something as disability art? disability culture? What makes someone a disability artist. Questions really worth exploring. I’ll do some of that in the ongoing self portrait episode.

Andrew
That’s the question that I’ve been wrestling with really like through the whole process of writing the book and figuring out my own identity as a blind person is like, is it supposed to be central? Or is it supposed to be incidental? When is it Central? When is it incidental? I read an interview with this bio ethicist who was blind named Adrian ash who died a couple years ago, she was very adamant that blindness was totally incidental. Her friends joke that she was 20, before she realized she was blind, because she just was like, it doesn’t really affect my life. But then when she applied for a job, and it was pretty obvious that she didn’t get the job because she was blind, because the person was basically explicitly like, I don’t know how we would hire a blind person, that’s when she became blind. That’s when it became a central part of her identity, that kind of politicizes it in a way that I don’t totally track with. If we’re talking about disability arts, I do want to center blindness as a writer, in some ways. There’s other times when, when I want it to be totally off to the side.

— Music comes to a close.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What has the response been like today? And I’m wondering if there’s any difference between blind and non blind readers?

Andrew
Yeah, it’s been great. I’ve gotten some criticism. But over my overwhelming experience has been one of people really responding positively to the book, it seemed safe to assume that like people whose experience was close to mine, would be like, oh, yeah, I recognize that like the first time I used a cane, stopping driving. But one of the things I learned in writing the book is that blindness is such a diverse experience, not only in the ways that people experience blindness, but also all kinds of other life experiences intersectionality’s that can inform one’s relationship with disability. The cool thing for me, after the book has come out has been just seeing folks whose experience is very different from mine, also resonated with a book that makes me feel like I captured something about blind culture Blind politics in 2023. The experience that extends beyond my narrow experience of it,

TR:
the response Andrew hears the most from those who are not blind?

Andrew
“I learned a lot.”

It’s shocking sometimes how little people really stopped to consider the experience of blindness. And so I think one thing that book has done is really just like cracked that world open a lot more for a lot more people

TR in Conversation with Andrew
What was some of the criticism you mentioned that you receive.

Andrew
One of the things I really tried to do in the book is like not just have it be a memoir. I think the parts that people respond to the most are like me writing about my relationship with my son or with my wife are very emotional, personal moments. And I understand that, I think it’s important to include those, but I also get pretty nerdy. And talking about history of audio description, or the history of Braille history of the organized blind movement and NFB versus ACB versus AFB. Plenty of readers who didn’t know anything about blindness pointed out that it’s wild that there’s like these ancient beefs between blind people. Why are blind people fighting? Are they supposed to be in solidarity with each other fighting the fight to raise Blind people up. there are certain readers who are like, dude, enough of the alphabet soup? I don’t care, let’s move on.
That’s one criticism.

TR
You should judge for yourself. Get the book.

Andrew
The book is on Bookshare. It’s on barred I read the audio book myself. Every blind person who hears the audiobook is like how the hell did you do that? The short answer is Rp. 5% of my visual field still hanging in there.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
You did a great job reading that book. Part of that I’m sure was from your podcast experience and narration and stuff.

Andrew
Totally. Yeah.

TR
You can learn more about Andrew, his work and find him on social media by visiting his website AndrewLeland.org.

There really is something for everyone in this book. But here on Reid My Mind Radio, we’re especially interested in those adjusting to disability. while Andrews experience is specifically about blindness. I want to strongly encourage those new to disability to read The Country of the Blind, you’ll see yourself, your family, you’ll hopefully confront your own feelings about what it means to be disabled. And don’t worry, the final say is always up to you.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
So what’s your current citizenship status for the country of the Blind? Are you a citizen? Are you just visiting? What are we doing?

Andrew
I’ve applied for a green card. It’s been approved and now I’m just like waiting in the mail for it. So I’m like technically a citizen but I don’t have like the full papers yet.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
I can’t give you those papers, but I can tell you that you are an official member of the Reid My Mind Radio family sir.

Andrew
That’s much better news. That makes, that makes my day. And I have to say, you know, I didn’t want to I didn’t want to like mess things up by flattering you too much, but, you know, if we’re really talking about blind President? It’, you got my vote, it’s all you Thomas.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
(Laughing) Well, I appreciate that, but I am not running.

Andrew
Alright, well, I’m still gonna write you in. Gonna get my slate and stylus and braille you right on to the ballot.

TR in Conversation with Andrew
There you go. All right. Well, if I get enough, I’ll think about it.

TR
You know, I really do appreciate Andrew’s vote. But even more than that, I appreciate all the effort put into the book, sharing his experiences and time with the Reid My Mind Radio family. Sharing the art of adjustment.

I’m very hopeful that Andrew will come back and share some of his experiences around audio description. We of course, had a little conversation about that, but I think a future episode on what we were specifically talking about would be nice. That’s all I’ll say for now. Well on that topic at least.

— Music begins Hail to the Chief.

— Tap on microphone

TR
— Over exaggerated clearing of throat.

(In a presidential style speech )
. My fellow citizens, as we move forward together united as one, no matter where we land on the spectrum called blindness. We should ask, not what the blindness has done to us. But rather, what is it that we will do with our blindness?

We should also remind ourselves… to rock with Reid My Mind Radio wherever you get podcasts. Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com.
Just remember, that’s R to the E, I, D!
— Sample (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro

Peace!

TR in presidential mode
And may God Bless Humanity!

Hide the transcript

Music begins
THOMAS: Welcome to the Blind-Centered Audio Description Chats. These are the edited recordings of the Blind-Centered Audio Description Live Chats!
CHERYL: The live is the most fun part! We get together, we start with a question, and then we invite up anybody from the audience who wants to come and chat with us, agree, disagree, shed light on something that we hadn’t thought about before, which is Nefertiti’s favorite. [electric whoosh]
NEFERTITI: I’m Nefertiti Matos Olivares, and I’m a bilingual professional voiceover artist who specializes in audio description narration! I’m also a fervent cultural access advocate and a community organizer.
CHERYL: I’m Cheryl Green, an access artist, audio describer and captioner.
THOMAS: And I’m Thomas Reid, host and producer Reid My Mind Radio, voice artist, audio description narrator, consultant, and advocate.
[smartphone selection beeps]
CHERYL: Recording now!

NEFERTITI: As ever, our approach is that of centering the blind perspective. In this discussion, we will be yielding the mic to blind people first. How about we talk about blind centered, what that means, and what that means to us as the hosts of these chats, but also what that means for the blindness community at large? All right, Thomas, lobbing the ball to you. What is blind centered? What does it mean? What’s that about?
THOMAS: Ooh, I think I caught it.
NEFERTITI: Good catch.
THOMAS: Thank you. Cool. Good afternoon, everybody. Blind centered, yeah, let’s talk about that. So, you know, we’ve been doing these chats since the, I think toward the end of ‘22, when I looked back. It might’ve been the summer of ‘22 when we actually started, but they started posting toward the end of ‘22. And the idea behind it has always remained the same, is that our perspective is that we believe that when everything about audio description, the creation of audio description, like any good product, should center its targeted audience. And while we all know that audio description can serve many different populations, that centered population has been, and should always continue to be, blind folks. And I will say, I will try my best to say “blind and low vision.” But I want y’all to know that for me personally, I always, included in when I say blind, I’m including that spectrum, okay, that full spectrum of blindness, which includes low vision, from low vision to total blindness. So that’s what I mean when I say blind. That’s our guiding principle, the fact that the target audience for audio description is blind folks. WE use this centering to look at everything about audio description. I think everything, everything about it, everything that goes into the creation.
So, for example, the technology that’s used to create audio description. If we looked at that, we probably wouldn’t have inaccessible software that, companies using inaccessible software to create AD, whatever part of that software, whatever part of that business is. If targeting, again, centering blindness, that would mean that it would automatically be accessible. So, that’s an example of how that works, right? The creation, the delivery, the process of educating and training those who are producing audio description. Again, blind centered, employing and procuring, right? AD centering blindness. That’d be fantastic.
So, I think what we wanted to do today is to take a look at, again, this certification by first framing it with this perspective of blind-centered. I think it would be good if we first take maybe five, let’s say five issues that are of the greatest concern to blind people when it comes to audio description. What are five things that are the most pressing? I’m specifically talking to blind consumers of audio description that I wanna hear from y’all. But what are some of the most pressing issues when it comes down to audio description? What are some of the most pressing issues that you feel we face today?
JOLIE: There should be as much audio description as there is captioning.
THOMAS: Okay, okay.
KATIE: One of the things I thought of just now is not interpreting emotions or facial expressions, like just saying what somebody’s face is doing or what’s physically happening, not, you know, having someone say, “he looks worried” or “he’s angry.”
NEFERTITI: Gotcha, okay.
KATIE: You know, it’s like, what do they, you know, what’s their face doing?

NEFERTITI: Anybody else who identifies as a blind consumer?
GRETCHEN: Hey. Yeah, this is Gretchen Maune. And I just wanna say, quality control.
THOMAS: Quality control.
NEFERTITI: Excellent.
MITCHELL: Oh, that’s what I was about to say.

CARRIE: I think it’s this debate that we’re all having, which is fine, about text to speech versus real audio description with narrators, human narrators. And it’s the whole thing, like, some people think, “Well, it’s better than nothing, and it’s fine with me.” And other people it’s not.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
CARRIE: And I think how companies, I don’t wanna, say, pick on anyone in particular, but specific companies think it’s cheaper and it’s so convenient and will give more if we can just do TTS, and it’s fine.

NEFERTITI: So far, we have TTS versus human voiced narration, we have quality control, interpretation, and that we should have as much audio description as there is captioning. Anything else?
ROBERT: And censorship of explicit material as well as the audio description infrastructure not traveling from one studio to the other.
THOMAS: Okay. Censorship and passthrough. So, I’m gonna go ahead and do this list ‘cause I was pretty much working on this, and I think we all captured the majority of them. And this is not necessarily in any order, but I think many of us would feel that TTS is a high priority, right? So, the forcing of TTS on us. And I’m gonna, yeah, I’m gonna say it like that. I’m gonna collapse some of these into one because I think when we talk about, when Robert mentioned the censorship and all of that, I feel like this is about quality. And some of this stuff falls into quality.
NEFERTITI: Yes, and I would also loop in interpretation in there as well.
THOMAS: Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Censorship, interpretation, all of that goes into quality.
THOMAS: And there’s a bunch of other things that go into quality that I think we can, that we talk about and we think about: well written, culturally appropriate, well casted, all of that.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely.
THOMAS: All of that kind of goes into the quality. So we’ll say quality is one, but it equals all of those things. I’m gonna go and add significant and meaningful inclusion of blind professionals throughout the process.
NEFERTITI: Aha! Yes.
THOMAS: Oh, y’all okay with that one? Y’all okay with that one being in there?
NEFERTITI: Oh yeah!
THOMAS: All right. Cool.
NEFERTITI: Very okay.
KATIE: That’s a good one. Yeah, exactly.
THOMAS: Thank you. We’ll also say, I’m gonna add this one because I know that this is a thing. We still experience this. But I’m just gonna go ahead and say the overall experience of theater, in theaters and in broadcast and all of that, right? So, we’re talking about the experience. I think some of that is captured by passthrough. We mentioned the passthrough issue, right? That’s part of the experience because the AD just never made it there, but we know it exists already, right? Just never made it there. When you go to a theater and the theater gives you the equipment that doesn’t work, that’s part of the experience. All of that stuff. When you go to a theater and the treatment that you receive in that theater is beyond, eh, you know, it’s just not a comfortable experience when, you know, they say, yeah, they have AD on the Tuesday at 7:00 one time a month for this one show. And then when you get there, if you can get there, no one really kind of knows what to do. Like, that’s not a good experience. Yeah, they have AD, but it’s not a good experience. So I’m gonna add that in on our list because I think that’s a really important one.
NEFERTITI: And that’s for cinema and for live performance.
THOMAS: Absolutely. Anywhere that they say they have AD.
NEFERTITI: Right.
THOMAS: And then one that I didn’t hear, but I think y’all might agree, is increasing awareness among consumers, number one, because y’all know we’re here. We’re in the know. Even if we’re just looking at the States right now, but we’re talking about more than the States, there’s a lot of people who do not know or are not using audio description who are blind. So I think there’s a real effort that’s necessary to get this word out to them. But also, in terms of getting the word out, increasing awareness also amongst content creators. Because we know that if content creators were more involved in the process of creating audio description and looked at it as a creative process, a creative tool, I think we believe that that would increase both the quantity and the quality of audio description.
NEFERTITI: I certainly believe that. Yes.
THOMAS: Okay. Cool, cool.
NEFERTITI: I believe that any content that embraces audio description is enhanced by it.
THOMAS: Is enhanced by it, so the content creators need to know about it. So, that increase of awareness is really, really important. It goes beyond those two, but I’m really just kind of talking about those groups specifically: blind people and content creators in the long run. Because, you know, one of the things we talked about that would be great for audio description is—and any form of accessibility—is when we, accessibility from the beginning of the process, right? So that won’t happen, that will never happen until content creators are aware and accept it and view this as an art. We won’t get there until that happens.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely.
THOMAS: Cool. So, we have the five things, those five areas. That’s the framing that I’m talking about. That’s the blind-centered framing. So these are the things that are pressing to blind folks when it comes to audio description. Okay? So, that’s what we’re gonna work with today.
So now what I wanted to do was to say, okay, let’s use this as the context to sort of look at where the accreditation, the proposed, I’m not sure if it’s just proposed, but the document is serving blind-centered, serving these things. How does it help? How does it help reduce TTS? How does it help increase the number of blind professionals? How does it help increase the awareness of audio description? How does it help the quality of description? Including all of those issues, including cultural appropriateness, including making sure that it’s not censoring, including how does it help the passthrough issue?
NEFERTITI: Mmhmm.
THOMAS: How does it help all of that?
NEFERTITI: The impact.
THOMAS: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, that’s kind of how I wanna approach this. Because we can go through it and just be like oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That’s fine. We could do that. But I think to get to that sense of at least my question when it comes to this is, how’s this gonna help? How is this gonna help us as consumers?
NEFERTITI: Absolutely.
THOMAS: How’s this gonna help us as consumers?
NEFERTITI: How does it benefit?
THOMAS: How does it help us as blind professionals?
NEFERTITI: Yes, exactly.
THOMAS: Okay, so.
NEFERTITI: How does it impact? How does it benefit? How does it possibly take away from?
THOMAS: Yeah, yeah. If anyone has anything specific to point us to where it does address any of these issues, I’m willing to hear that. I would love to hear that, ‘cause that would probably make this a little faster process. But until that, we’ll go through it. Let’s just go through it. I’m gonna go through a couple of things that I noticed, and then we can invite a couple of folks to come up and talk about some of the things you noticed. Because maybe you did notice if it does or if it doesn’t address any of these five things. And in general, how would it help those who are looking at audio description from a blind-centered approach as opposed to something else?
So, I wanna go over this one part that I noticed, and we could use this as an example that I thought was kind of interesting. Okay. So it says, “In media and in live performance practice, a CAUDES tries to fit the description into the pauses between the spoken or sung dialogue and critical sound elements. A list of visual elements to describe includes, but not limited to, actions, facial expressions, physical characteristics, body language and gestures, visual comedy and sight gags, dance movements, costumes and clothing, multimedia effects and lighting, settings and scene changes, props, including signage, characters’ descriptions.” Oh! There we go. There goes something. I mean, that might be some identity stuff. Might be, that’s kind of low, but it’s there, I guess, if that’s what that means. “Text or on-screen graphics.” Okay, cool. Titles, credits, all of that. Okay. Oh, why is that kind of low though? The character, the characteristics, if that is, I guess that’s identity. Y’all see? Nef, you think that’s identity and character? Cheryl, that’s identity? Is that, would that be identity stuff? So, would that be?
CHERYL: It doesn’t have to be.
THOMAS: It doesn’t have to be. Right.
CHERYL: No, I don’t think, at least the item that you read out doesn’t rule in or rule out anything, for example, race or ethnicity, skin tone, hair, disability, like you started to say, mobility devices. Or is it just “this is the mom”? All I can say is that particular item you read out doesn’t clearly answer to that. There may be something later in the document.
THOMAS: Let’s go to Jolie! Let’s go to Jolie. So, Jolie, is there anything that you see that is addressing some of the five concerns?
JOLIE: Yes, yes, yes!
THOMAS: Yeah.
JOLIE: You know what I found really exciting is at the very beginning where it says what the definition of a CAUDES, a certified audio describer specialist, they say can be blind, low vision, or sighted. I love the fact that that starts out with blind, then goes to low vision, then goes sighted. Because normally it would be the other way. And they may say, “and in certain circumstances people who are blind could also blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” But instead, it starts right out with a certified audio describer specialist is a person who is blind, low vision, or sighted. I like that. I like that list.
THOMAS: Jolie? Jolie, who else? Who other than someone who’s blind, low vision, or sighted would it include?
JOLIE: Exactly, Thomas! Exactly. And so, I just, when you talk about blind centeredness, I think that that’s excellent. The stuff, by the way, that does cover the idea of ethnicity and how to describe different things like skin tone and hair and all the rest of that kind of stuff, that’s in a different part of the document. But I encourage everybody to read it with an open heart. There you go.
THOMAS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I wanna get back to that, though, because I think I’m thinking of that line a little differently because, well, I definitely wanna point out that it says that. I definitely. But I’m more curious to how does it do it? How does it do it? Because there’s lots of things that say things, right? Because what I was getting at is that a person who’s doing audio description, from my knowledge, can only be sighted, blind, or low vision. I’m not sure what the other option is when it comes to, I mean, you know—
JOLIE: You know, Thomas, I’ve been in discussions where just to try to get somebody who is sighted to understand that a person who is blind can absolutely do audio description, that it’s not you’re editing something that somebody else has said or the people who are sighted who are helping you are really doing it, and you’re just taking credit for it, blah, blah, blah.
THOMAS: Yeah, I know.
JOLIE: I have been in those discussions.
THOMAS: Same. Same.
JOLIE: Yeah, yeah.
THOMAS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JOLIE: I was in one this morning, so I’ll tell you I think there is an open heart here.
THOMAS: Okay.
JOLIE: But people should make comments and stuff like that ‘cause that’s what the group is, you know, is looking for and that kind of stuff.
THOMAS: 100%.
JOLIE: But, yeah, I liked that.
THOMAS: Cool!
JOLIE: Anyway, this makes me nervous. So, I’m gonna go back and hide out in mute land.
THOMAS: Aw, Jolie, I hope I’m not making you nervous. I hope it’s just the fact that you’re talking to other people that make you nervous. Not me. I hope it’s not me.
JOLIE: Oh, it would never be you because you have Charles Bonnet syndrome.
THOMAS:
JOLIE: And your show, that podcast. I have that. And I hated it my whole life, Thomas, until I heard your podcast on Charles Bonnet syndrome. And I know that’s not the subject at all, but now I can sleep because I don’t hold those pictures and images and light and stuff against them. And now it’s just, as you say, a reverie. It just changed my life. It was nice. It was nice.
THOMAS: Aw, that’s awesome. That’s awesome.
NEFERTITI: All right, thank you for sharing that.
JOLIE: All right, I’m gonna go hide. Bye-bye.
THOMAS: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Cool. So, that’s good. So Jolie looks at that as yeah, that’s blind centered because blind was mentioned first. Cool. I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that. So, I also wanna, I wanna see how ‘cause I think the how is important. The how is very important.
MITCHELL: I think this still is related, but one thing that stuck out to me was the on-screen text. And the reason that this sticks out to me is because there are certain shows, for example, Survivor, where they subtitle English, and sometimes it actually can become more difficult to understand what people are saying when two different people are reading or saying the exact same thing. And I wonder, I guess, what would be the best way or of how to go about understanding. Because obviously, you wanna have everything described, but also, there needs to be some sort of limit.
THOMAS: Are you talking in terms of who should be subtitling, who should be narrating that? Who should be voicing that?
MITCHELL: Well, it’s, I’m more referring to is when subtitles are narrated by audio description, when they’re being said relatively clearly by other people.
THOMAS: Mm!
MITCHELL: And I think that they’re subtitled to ensure that people understand what they’re saying.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
MITCHELL: But in some ways, that could lead to actually more misunderstanding.
THOMAS: And that’s the type of thing we talk about in other blind-centered chats that we have, blind-centered AD.
MITCHELL: Okay.
THOMAS: But here we wanna really focus on that. But I can definitely appreciate what you’re talking about. And just real quick, I think sometimes, you know, it’s a call that someone has to make on whether or not to actually go ahead and voice that. And to me, that’s an access issue, right?
MITCHELL: Yeah.
THOMAS: Like, sometimes our access issues can break someone else’s access or maybe annoy someone, but, you know, someone, a different person is being served by that. And so, I think we always have to kind of remember that.
MITCHELL: Exactly.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely. One size does not fit all when it comes to accessibility.
MITCHELL: Nope!
NEFERTITI: But thank you, Mitchell.
THOMAS: Yeah. Thank you, Mitchell.

CHERYL: I read through the draft criteria, and it is exquisitely detailed. So, kudos to the team for covering so many topics and so many angles. I will say, however, that the writing is often very dense and sometimes even academic, and there wasn’t, at least in my feeling, a real emphasis on plainer language. And sometimes I have trouble understanding reading, and I have to get somebody to read it to me. Or sometimes if writing is very dense, I have to take it and rewrite it in my own words and then cross check and make sure did I get the stuff right. And so, there may be some things that I don’t understand, so I can’t say they’re good or negative, because the writing of this document sometimes is too hard. And so, I wonder if, I’m not asking people to answer, but I do wonder if other people have experienced or may experience trouble knowing whether they can get certified or knowing what certification is about because the document is a little bit hard. I will pause and yield the floor to Scott Nixon.

SCOTT: I completely agree with Cheryl about the draft. The language in it was very, very dense. Very, very not necessarily hard to understand for myself because I’ve had experience with these sorts of documents in the past, but a plain-language version I thought would have been a great idea. Because in many cases in, you know, legislation or things like that in government and so forth, they have obligations to have a plain-language version that anyone can understand. So, creating a plain-language version of this would be good as well.
But the main points that I would like to bring up are this. Going back to the points that Thomas was mentioning at the start when I first came in, things like passthrough and cultural competency and cultural sensitivity and things like that, I don’t think that this is going to really help change much of that, simply because, yeah, okay, we want to create this overarching standard for audio description professionals. That is great, in theory, but which companies are gonna sign on to take this certificate or this training or whatever seriously enough to hire people who are going to go through it? And once these standards are adopted, are they only gonna be recognized in the United States, or are they going to be recognized in Canada or the United Kingdom or here in Australia?
At the end of the day, I in no way mean to harsh anyone’s vibe about this great idea that everyone’s having, but at the end of the day, at the moment, with no company willing to take it on as a standard, no company saying, “we expect you to have done this” or whatever, it’s just another piece of paper. It’s just gonna be another thing. Okay, great. Sure, great to have. And it will increase the amount of blind professionals who are out there in the industry, you know, like myself who is a audio description narrator. But it’s not gonna help with passthrough at all. It’s not going to help with TTS at all. It’s, you know, it may help with competency and cultural competency and things like that.
THOMAS: How?
SCOTT: But we….
THOMAS: Scott?
SCOTT: Yeah.
THOMAS: I just wanna back up because you said that it will increase the amount of blind professionals. How do you see that happening with this?
SCOTT: Because it’s going to be coming through from blind-centered theory, and the information is gonna be passed out to people who are blind or have low vision in the community, hopefully. And people who are blind or have low vision will be able to see it and go, “Okay, well, I’m blind, I have low vision. I think I’ve got a decent voice. I think I might be able to do this, so let’s”—
THOMAS: This is not about narrators. This is not about narrators. It’s only about writers and quality control.
SCOTT: Oh, right. My deepest apologies. I did come in a few minutes late. In that case, scratch that. Okay. We’re taking that off the table. Quality control. it may help with people who, getting more people who are blind or have low vision to come in for quality control. Scriptwriters, I don’t see it working at all. So yeah, like I said, at the end of the day, it’s going to just be another piece of paper. And I don’t see how without getting all the companies together, all the producers together and saying, “Okay, we’ve got this. We wanna get more blind people into the industry,” they’re just gonna turn around and say, “Why? We could do it faster with a sighted person. We could do it faster with a computer” or whatever. Because at the end of the day, it’s coming down to cost. It’s coming down to, you know, speed and accuracy and things like that. And I don’t think this proposal is going to improve standards. It really just comes down to the skills that someone is gonna be bringing to the table, and you can teach them all the skills in the world. There are still gonna be things that, things that slip through. And cultural competency, I don’t see it happening, you know, at all. So, yeah, that’s more than two minutes for me, I’ll shut up now.
NEFERTITI: Thank you for speaking up, Scott, for sharing with us.
THOMAS: Thank you. Thank you. I would want to get an understanding of how someone with no experience who’s interested in becoming, a blind person who’s interested in doing QC, let’s just say QC. Let’s not even touch on the writing. But I would really like to know how would a blind person interested in QC be able to kind of go through this process? Because it seemed like there was a significant, like the barrier of entry seemed relatively significant to get by. It’s really partially because even what Jolie was talking about in terms of getting folks to even be willing, I think there’s that barrier. But then the requirements in here, which I don’t have in front of me, but it was, you know, 100 hours of this or this and that and all of these various things that folks have to take and sign off on and whatnot seemed like an additional barrier. Plus, if we go into, which is not in here, whatever the cost of the trainings, there’s probably a dollar level that has to be reached, not only by the training, but then all of the other things that one has to have, submit to get this piece of paper.
CHERYL: So you said just for the purpose of discussion in this moment, let’s think about blind QC and not so much the writing, just for right now. The certification looked like you have to have X number of hours in, you know, film or TV, that kind of post-production, and X number of hours in live. If you were in the city where I live, I don’t know if blind QC is used in the scriptwriting process in the theatre. Now, you know that the stuff that I write and the stuff that I work on for film, we do employ blind QC. But if you lived where I live, where there’s no…. I don’t know, some of the live theatre describers who I know don’t work with blind QC.
THOMAS: Yeah.
CHERYL: So, for the blind QC specialist who lives in my town who wants to get certified, how on earth are they going to get their hours in the live space if it’s not being offered here? I guess remote is the only option.
THOMAS: I just wanted to point out something that I read in here that I find kind of related to what you just said because it says, it says here, “When possible, a CAUDES involves audio description patrons in the design and development of audio description language and encourages the collection and use of patron feedback.” When possible. I think this should be mandatory. I don’t think that “when possible” should exist, because that’s the problem. That’s the issue that you’re talking about right now, is that folks leave it. You know, it’s always possible. Blind people are all around the country. It’s not that hard.
NEFERTITI: And yet, it is always possible to leave us out, to not include us.
THOMAS: Absolutely. And I think, yeah, and giving this a, making this an option, to me, isn’t blind centered. That’s going back to what we started. That’s not blind centered for me. But we can go to Mitch. Let’s go to Mitch.
MITCHELL: Yeah, I agree with you on this because I’m personally, as someone who doesn’t really live close to any big cities or whatever, so I can’t exactly go places for QC stuff. But I think it’s, it does, I agree about the fact that it does…. You have the ability to leave people out, but also the ability to leave people in. And I agree. I think it is very important that this is mandatory. I just, I do think that that’s true. But I’m also kind of curious in just the, in the broader sense of like, you know, where would you go to get, who would you contact, and who would you contact for when these QC openings opened up?
NEFERTITI: Well, I think that speaks to a little bit about, so you go through this training, however much that will cost. You take the exam, if there’s a cost associated with that. And then will there be a job for you at the end of this? If we’ve established that companies are not necessarily jumping or chomping at the bit to accept this certification as a means to vouch for someone’s competency, then what guarantee is there that there will be a job, Mitchell?
MITCHELL: There isn’t. There isn’t if no one, if no one. Like, it’s just a piece of paper if no one can vouch for it.
NEFERTITI: If no one validates it necessarily.
MITCHELL: No one believes it.
NEFERTITI: That’s interesting. Something to think about for sure. Thanks, Mitchell.
MITCHELL: Glad to help.
THOMAS: So, we talked about the formatting, the accessibility of the document itself, industry adoption. We talked a little bit about, yeah, the fact that blind professionals are really barely being hired right now, let alone having to go and get some certification or even just having other things to do to try to get into the industry. That’s just, to me, it sounds like another barrier. It really feels like that. I should have said this off the top, that this is a critique of the document. This is not a critique of the intention behind the document. It’s not that. Because I think that chances are, most people affiliated with this process have good intentions. I believe that.
NEFERTITI: I agree.
THOMAS: We’re not talking about the intentions. We have to talk about where this is going to lead and how is this going to help? Again, how is this gonna help the quality of AD? How is this gonna help the experience? How is it gonna impact those five things? And so far, I’m not seeing how it’s going to do that.
NEFERTITI: So I wonder if in the last four years that this committee has been meeting, it’s a lot of people involved, which is fantastic, a lot of perspectives from all over the world, though I must note I did not—and Thomas and Cheryl, if you’ve picked up on this, let me know, or if someone in the audience has—I didn’t notice any involvement from Africa or much, if any at all, in South America, was it?
CHERYL: One from South America, none from Central America or Mexico.
NEFERTITI: Central America, ah. Okay.
THOMAS: I mean, I know there were blind folks involved in the process. I don’t know how many.
NEFERTITI: Oh, for sure. I’m not sure of how many, but I do recall going through the extensive list, loving the representation, the amount of people at all sorts of levels.
THOMAS: What part of that representation you talking about?
NEFERTITI: Blind specific.
THOMAS: Blind specific.
NEFERTITI: But also people from other countries.
THOMAS: Okay, okay.
NEFERTITI: People that I’m assuming are of color, some.
THOMAS: Hmm.
NEFERTITI: I don’t know anything about sexual orientation or gender identity, but I’d like to think that that was represented to some degree or another amongst those folks.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
NEFERTITI: It was a big swatch of, nice amount of people over the last four years, and I just wonder what if that time had been put towards these five umbrella type terms that we’ve put out here? The quality, the fight against TTS, the awareness of audio description as an option to enhance access.

THOMAS: We could put this in context because, well, I don’t know if it is in context, but it’s a part of it, I think. I think timing is an interesting part. Because four years, right? So that goes back to 2020. Mm. I think of the climate of 2020.
NEFERTITI: Oh, gosh. Do we have to?
THOMAS: Well, I mean, it’s a part, it’s a, I think that’s context.
NEFERTITI: No, it is, it absolutely is.
THOMAS: I think it’s context.
NEFERTITI: I jest, but the truth is, as much as we may not want to, it has been a tough time on us all.
THOMAS: Yeah, but even if we go back to that, and I’m thinking of what was taking place. Let’s just bring that down to this, right?
NEFERTITI: Yeah.
THOMAS: There’s the cultural stuff, right? There’s all of that. Absolutely. That is a part of this I believe, too, in terms of framing because nothing happens in a void, right?
NEFERTITI: Correct.
THOMAS: Audio description involves everything. Everything.
NEFERTITI: Yes.
THOMAS: But specifically 2020, there was a lot. That was the beginning, to a certain extent, of really sort of like this idea of blind professionals. That was 2020. That’s when that conversation was really up front and center. That’s when it started. And if it was going back before that, I’m not talking about two people somewhere having a conversation, I’m talking about a community conversation. The audio description community was talking about that. The audio description community was really talking about cultural competence, right? I think that’s important. But also, if we look at TTS. TTS was really starting to take place at that time. That was a little before. It was happening, but that was the time that I think we as a community failed to really get a hold on that. So Nef, when you talk about the amount of effort and where some of that effort could have gone, that could be, could really contribute to audio description, we gotta look at the time frame. We have to.
NEFERTITI: 100%. What else was going on? What else were people doing? What else was coming at us? And how did we respond?
THOMAS: I mean, you know, we, obviously, were in the pandemic and all of that, right? But this is, so this came out of during that time.
NEFERTITI: Well, that too. And blind participation too, right?
THOMAS: That’s what I’m saying.
NEFERTITI: That’s when we started being able to record from home.
THOMAS: Yes! Access was taking place.
NEFERTITI: And having more opportunities like that. Yeah.
THOMAS: Yeah!
NEFERTITI: Because everybody was cooped up.
THOMAS: Yeah.
NEFERTITI: Nobody could go out to studios and carry on, right? Like, we had to adjust.
THOMAS: We were having conversations about blind writers.
CHERYL: At the same time, this development of AI writing was exploding, so that is also kind of a threat to having human writers, blind and non-blind.
THOMAS: Mmhmm.
CHERYL: I don’t see that addressed in the certification. It may be in the background in the committee who wrote these criteria. I kinda wish it was foregrounded, like really openly stated: “We don’t want AI writing audio description.”
THOMAS: I wanna point out this right here from the document. So it says, “A CAUDES should not allow personal bias to interfere with communicating the creative intent of the original work.” This doesn’t, I mean, it’s a good line, but there’s this thing called unconscious bias. When a person, when a person is not familiar with their bias, they can’t be expected, cultural competency can’t be this checkbox.
NEFERTITI: No.
THOMAS: It cannot be this idea that, “Okay, y’all gotta know what you’re doing. Recognize your bias.” Folks who have bias don’t believe they have bias. You don’t know it. And so, until they understand it, they can’t do anything about it. And if this document, if the training—
NEFERTITI: Some don’t know it. Some don’t care to know it.
THOMAS: Some don’t know. But who’s training? Okay, so what this document doesn’t say is who’s doing the training for these audio description folks, right?
NEFERTITI: Correct.
THOMAS: So if there’s gonna be a certified, if there’s gonna be a certification, that means certain trainers have to be certified. How are they getting trained to teach cultural bias? How are they how going to do that? It’s not in here.
NEFERTITI: How are they getting trained, who’s doing the training, and how do you check up on that?
THOMAS: How do you check up on that? Well, quality control.
NEFERTITI: How do you keep up? Yeah?
THOMAS: Quality control. But it has to be the full thing. So, it’s not addressed in here. So just the idea, I just wanna get this because I need more. And again, this is just my interpretation. But just because words are used in a document doesn’t mean that something’s being addressed.
NEFERTITI: That said, I would love to hear from people who were involved in making this, in putting this proposal together. I really wanna hear, and Thomas and Cheryl, you let me know if you agree, but I would love to hear from folks who were part of, like, where the kitchen was, right? I would love to hear from the cooks in the kitchen if we have any of them amongst us, and you’re comfortable speaking.
THOMAS: Before we do that, or when we do that, because I am open to that. However, I wanna frame that too because this is not, there’s no need for them to defend anything here, right?
NEFERTITI: Oh, not at all.
THOMAS: But if they could shed some clarity, that’s a different thing.
NEFERTITI: That’s what I want.
THOMAS: If they can give some clarity on something, right, that would be fine.
NEFERTITI: Thank you.
THOMAS: But there’s no, y’all don’t need to come up here and say, “Oh, we had great intentions.” I tried to establish that. I think you probably did. I think most of you probably did. I’m an adult. I don’t necessarily think everyone is, you know. But who do we have?
OLIVER: Yeah, I just had the thought that, I mean, it seems possible in theory that, you know, the creation of the institution of certification, this gatekeeping, this committee that has to decide on rules, requirements, and update them regularly, it just seems like a natural consequence of that would be more of a community, more communication and discussion among AD writers. And else equal, that actually could accelerate the adoption of progressive ideas. I mean, even if it’s not said in the draft document, isn’t, can we rule out that it wouldn’t generate more community? And I mean, do we know there would not be democratic or sensitive to movements that support the principles, the goals?
THOMAS: Walk me through a scenario, Oliver. Walk me through a scenario where the certification creates more community. Oliver, I’m not sure if you were here during the beginning framing that in our blind-centered approach.
OLIVER: Well, yeah, I’m saying specifically with respect to these goals like cultural competency, which you would like to see embraced by the AD industry overall, and you know, which are not percolating through, I think, one could argue that that’s because there isn’t really a community of AD writers. But if there were a community of AD writers and somebody heard and was persuaded that it was a good idea to be more culturally competent, then they would tell the other people in their community, and maybe that would become a popular idea. And maybe they would talk, they would talk to the member they know that’s on the committee, or they would host their own continuing education lecture because continuing education is a requirement in certification, as I’m familiar with it. So yeah, I am speaking with respect to the particular goals of, you know, the five ones. I’m sorry I can’t rattle them all off, but it seems worth considering that this is a way of helping.
NEFERTITI: Absolutely. Thank you, Oliver, I just wanna say really quick interjecting here. Remember, folks, your comments, though we will be sharing this audio and transcripts on the Reid My Mind Radio podcast, we do highly encourage you to do your own work in commenting directly to the organization. That’s comments@ACVREP.org, putting in the subject line CAUDES, very important. CAUDES, at comments@ACVREP.org. We still have time till March 31st to get your comments in, folks. March 31st, 2024, to get your comments in to the committee, or to the ACVREP, I should say, the organization.
I will not speak for Cheryl and Thomas, though I’d like to think that you join me in this. I would love to hear from folks who were part of putting this together. As Thomas so beautifully said, this is not confrontation. This is not come up here and defend your work. Not at all. We believe that your intentions are good, and that overall, this is to legitimize audio description as a field, as a practice, as an art form. Though I agree with Thomas, we are all adults here, right? Not all of our intentions are purely good necessarily. But beside all that, I would love to hear from folks, particularly blind folks, right? Blind-centered. Where are the blind folks who were part of putting this together? I just want to, again, encourage any blind folks who are here with us today who were part of putting this together, who had input, who had a seat at the table, let us know. Please speak to us.
How does this all work? How does it come together to improve the quality, the access to the experience?
Whether we got to it here or not today, whatever your thoughts are, and if you haven’t yet, or if you want to go over it again, that proposal is nice and front and center at the ACVREP.org website. But to comment, that would be comments@ACVREP.org with the subject line of or that includes the word, I should say, and if you just wanna make this the subject line, that’s fine too: CAUDES. Very important that that be in the subject line: CAUDES. Let them know.
THOMAS: You know, I feel like this just has a different vibe, this whole idea of the certification. It doesn’t really feel like it’s going to really help. It almost feels like it’s a reversal. It’s a reversal a little bit. Like we’re going cordless, and this is really putting a landline back in the house.
NEFERTITI:
THOMAS: I’m sorry. That’s my silly joke. But yeah, there you go. But I do encourage everybody to go ahead and whatever they feel, by all means, send it in and let’s hope for the best.
JOLIE: You know what? I’m looking forward to getting a certification. Because I feel that if I have a certification, I can say to people, “You know what? Yeah, I’m blind, and I have a certification. I’m a certified audio description specialist, or.” I’m dyslexic. I have trouble with all the letters and stuff. And I think it will make a difference. I absolutely encourage everybody to read this and comment because they need our comments.
THOMAS: Yeah!
JOLIE: If we’re gonna hold people to the fire to or say good things or whatever it is one way or another, it has to be based on, as you say, authenticity.
THOMAS: Jolie, I just wanna say thank you for that, and I wanna let you know that I hope it works out for you. I really do. And for whoever is impacted by that, if that so be. That is truly what I hope for, because I do want you to have an opportunity. However you get that opportunity, I would love for you to have that. So, thank you. Nef, Close us out.
NEFERTITI: Yeah. Just please remember that you do have till the 31st, the 31st of March, 2024 to get your comments in. Be that against, be that for, whatever it is. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your effort. And I agree with Thomas. Whatever comes of this, we hope it is for the best. After all, this is an art form: audio description for us, by us. It should always be about us, and I can only hope and trust that anything of this kind to legitimize it more, or whatever the intentions are, makes it better, improves it, and makes it more open to blind and low-vision folks, who this is all about period. All right, everybody. Talk to you at the next chat!

— Sci-fi sound rises and music begins…
THOMAS: Cool. Well, that concludes this week’s conversation. Why don’t y’all keep the conversation going on social media.
CHERYL: Use #ADFUBU, for us by us, #DescribeEverything, and #AudioDescription.
NEFERTITI: And hey, you know we’re out here, right? Mmhmm! Gathered and galvanized y’all. If you haven’t joined us yet, what are you waiting for?! You can find us in the LinkedIn Audio Description group and the AD Twitter community. We know that your participation will only make these spaces better.
Music fades out!

Hide the transcript

TR:
Hey, what’s up Y’all. Just a quick note that this episode contains real brief mentioning of depression and suicide. But it’s brief! Now onto the episode.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Is there anything that you would want to tell a young Krystle, now, if you could go when you first got diagnosed, ?

Krystle:
I would say to myself that it’s okay. It’s gonna be okay. It’s okay to feel what I’m feeling.

TR:
That’sKrystle Allen. You heard her episode last week, at least you should have. If not, please go check it out. This season in The Art of Adjustment, I’m following each episode featuring a guest with what I’m calling a continuous self-portrait. I’ll take parts of our conversation that connect with my own personal experience and discuss it here with you. It’s a way to move a bit beyond host and producer. I do it occasionally. But we’re family after all, and families share with one another. If you or your family member is adjusting to blindness or any disability for that matter. I know things feel confused, lots of uncertainty and a wide range of emotions going on at the same time. But that uncertainty starts to fade. And yes…

Krystle:
It’s okay. It’s gonna be okay.

TR:
Things start to become Krystle clear. I’m Thomas Reid. Welcome back to Reid My Mind Radio.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
I often ask guests to time travel back to their early days of adjustment and give their younger self some advice on adjusting to disability. It’s not a clever question, but it does allow for reflection. It’s specific to the individual but the advice often applies to others. For Krystle, who went inward and spent a lot of time and quiet thought. I’m sure she had the burning question. Will I be okay?

Here’s the setting from my personal experience with blindness. I just moved into a new home in a new state with a new baby, my six-year-old and my wife. My brother recently passed away and that left my mother alone in the house. Nothing felt “normal”. I realized today, I wasn’t grounded. No wonder it felt like I was having an out of body experience.

Krystle says she was quiet for a year. My blindness came as an adult. A year of silence I don’t think was ever an option for me.

Allow me to reflect.

TR talking to himself:
I’m waiting for my interviewee to arrive. We had an appointment.
Sound of Voice Over on iPhone
pm

— Sound of telephone ringing.

“Hello”
TR:
My guest was actually supposed to join me live in person. It’s all good though. She lives pretty close to the studio.

— Door creaking

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
How are you?

Marlett:
Good.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You wanna state your name for the people

Marlett:
Marlett Reid

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
you want to give an image description?

Marlett:
Oh, wow, I didn’t come prepared to describe myself. Dark skin, oval face full lips.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You know, I do a lot in the area of description and talking about this stuff. seems kind of odd that my wife would not have an image description. If somebody asked me, Hey, Thomas, what’s taxes. I could tell them

Marlett:
Not really.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I can talk about taxes.

— Noise

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Hey! What was that? (Laughing)

Marlett:
The chair. The chair’s going down. That’s not me! (Defensively)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
(Long loud boisterous laugh)

Marlett:
Oh God! (Annoyed)
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Did it fall by itself? Because it sinks. It’s annoying, right?

Marlett:
Yeah.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So I invited you here today to chat a little bit. And I really just mean a little bit. (Laughing)

Marlett:
That’s fine.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So we’re gonna go back. I want to know if you remember after I returned home from the hospital, and I was laid up in the bed like that time. And to be honest with you, I don’t have a lot of memories. I want to know, what do you remember about those first? Let’s say the first month, which was February, it was right around this time. What do you recall about that?

Marlett:
I just remember being sad. I do remember saying to myself okay, I must find a way to fix this.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Fix what?

Marlett:
Find a way where we can get your site back.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:

How did that work out? (Laughing)

Marlett:
It didn’t workout.

Tr
I can joke about this kind of thing today. Marlette well, not so much. I won’t joke about blindness or any aspect of disability with just anyone though. My daughters and I can really find some of these things quite entertaining. But I know they aren’t ableist and I know they don’t see me as less than.

I know my wife doesn’t see me as less than it’s just not what tickles her Funny Bone. Any movie featuring a grown man screaming? Well, she finds that hysterical.

— Scene from “Blank Man” where he gets slapped and screams like a “Girl”.

Marlett:
I was worried about the future. It seemed like you were depressed, you weren’t motivated?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Was that based on anything that I was doing? Because I just got home and I was just like, I was just here , to cut my head open. (Laughs)

Marlett:
Yes, I know they cut your head open. (Reluctant giggle)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Give a brother some time!

Marlett:
I did give you time. but I knew that you can’t stay in that space.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Was there a timeframe? Like, did they tell you okay, “he shouldn’t stay in bed for more than whatever or he needs to get out and start head spinning by three days?” (A mocking voice)
What was your expectation in terms of the time?

Marlett:
Raven was young.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
She was a baby.
Marlett:
right, she was a baby.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Months, like two or three months?

Marlett:
Right! So I wanted to make sure that she kind of got the same experience that Riana got, you know, with daddy daughter day, spending time with daddy. And so far. I felt like, if you stay there, that’s not going to happen. Like, I want you to get up.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I remember her hanging out with me. But go ahead.

Marlett:
yeah, of course. You always been a great dad, you’ve always been great. I cannot take that from you know, even when you weren’t. I always say when you weren’t like fully there. I needed my husband to get up.

TR
Here’s the thing, y’all. I don’t think I was so called down for that long. And it wasn’t necessarily my choice.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So from my recollection, I swear Marlett…

Marlett:
Your what?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Huh!

Marlett:
Your what?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Did I say that wrong?

–The couple laughs

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I’m gonna have to replay that. I’m not even gonna take it out.

recollection. Did I not say that?

But from my that, I swear, it probably wasn’t two weeks, it was probably more than that. But I swear it felt like it

Marlett:
It definitely wasn’t a month. I didn’t give you a month. I remember in my head saying he’s gonna get out of this bed one way or the other.

TR
I wasn’t in the bed. I just wasn’t going out. I mean, I was going out to doctor’s appointments. But that’s it. Where was I supposed to go? In February, after eight days in the hospital as a newly blind person with no blindness skills. But I do understand Marlett’s point and concern. She was looking to get back to normal.

marlett:
If I was going somewhere and everybody would be like where’s your husband? Are you by yourself? Because if I asked you, and even that took a while. So you were just like, Nah, I don’t want to go. I don’t want to do that. This is important. Because prior to that surgery and you coming home on February 4, we didn’t do a lot of stuff.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No, of course not.

Marlett:
And I understand. But that’s an important part of this journey.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You think so?

Marlett:
For me, as to why you want to know why I didn’t give you that much time. Because we were going through it.
(TR Laughing)

Why is that funny?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because!

You’re not saying like we were supposed to be doing something?

Marlett:
weren’t. We weren’t.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because, I had the cancer going on. And everything and we were doing doctor’s visits.

Marlett:
Yeah, that’s about it. Yes.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And we had a new baby.

Marlett:
We had a new baby. And we were just, we were just here in the house.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Okay! And so that so you saying that played a factor in you? Okay. I never even thought that that would but Okay, that’s interesting. You did? Okay. I don’t.

Marlett:
Because remember, we used to do things you would always come up with things to do, because it really was you. And we would do a lot of things.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Ok, All right. Good context. Good context. That’s cool. I’ll accept that. I’ll accept that. So you’re saying that plus the fact that you were like, Yo, you just thought he gonna be depressed, which is probably natural. Yeah. For you to think that and for somebody to feel that.

Marlett:
Yeh, that was fine.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
But you’re saying he ain’t gonna stay there. I’m not gonna give him to the end of February.
Marlett:
I don’t remember the timeframe, as well as you seem to, but I know in my head I was like I’m going to give him two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Okay. All right. So that’s probably why I have that timeframe. So this is probably right. I don’t think we went out but I think you started asking me stuff, bugging me about no disrespect, about going out. What’s the time that you remember going out?

Unknown
)With some delay) I don’t remember.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Well, let me go back. Think about that. Put that in the back burner. And I want to know, what were you hoping to accomplish by telling me that I need to get up and get out?

Unknown
We’re a couple. So if somebody asked me, Oh, can you come over and let’s do this or do that, and they had their spouse, I wanted mine there.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So what were you hoping to accomplish?

Unknown
I wanted you to get out of where you were, I didn’t know where that would lead.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You’re talking about mentally…

Marlett:
I would ask you, are you okay? How do you feel? And you would say that you were fine. You never really told me? You never really talked about it?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
What?

Marlett:
I’m afraid Well, you know, is he thinking suicide. And you would say, I’m fine. In my mind, I’m thinking, Okay, fine. We have to figure all of this out. If he’s upstairs, we can’t figure this out.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Hmm! So this was before the Karen and Shelly.

TR
shout out to both my rehab counselor, and my orientation and mobility instructor. I know across the country in different states, including Pennsylvania, there are all sorts of reasons that delay newly blind people from getting the training they need, yet we expect them to get back out into society without the necessary skills. It took a couple of months for me, and that was mainly due to Marlett’s advocacy. These skills were a crucial part in helping me build back my confidence.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
What do you remember about the first time going out?

Marlett:
? The stairs.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
The stairs?

Marlett:
Yeah, everybody would stair.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh, stairs.

TR
(Chuckles)What a great example of the communication challenges couples face after blindness. Chances are when marlett said stairs, she opened her eyes wide or gestured in some way. If I could see her, I would immediately know that she meant stairs as in watching our every move, not the stairs leading to a new level. Communication is key y’all!

Abbot & Costello
Well, then who’s playing first?
Yeah.
I mean the fellas name on first base.
Who?
The fella playing first base for St. Louis.
Who.
The guy on first base.
Who was on first?
What are you asking me for?

TR in Conversation with Marlett

Where did we go?

Marlettt:
I don’t remember, Sorry.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Nah, ok, okay. I think I do.

Marlett:
Where?

TR
I’m Pretty sure it was Easter. So that means it was actually either the end of March or April, we went to my sister in law’s house. The only thing I recall about that day was the husband of a new neighbor couple that they befriended. We just moved out here. So I didn’t know this guy. He was acting like he knew me. He kept going on about how I need to get out the house saying stuff like we hear Your friends are here.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And I didn’t even think about it until I’m thinking about this now. Was that like the purpose of that? For me to get out the house?

Marlett:
I don’t even think that. I think that came out of his own like…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
so he just assumed this?

Marlett:
I’m guessing so!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I should have punched him in his face.

Marlett:
I don’t know why!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Cause I didn’t know him? And he was talking mad junk. like, Yo, you know, we’re friends, this is what we got to do and it’s like, yo Bee, you don’t know meSon. I just met you. Who are you?

TR
Okay, that was a little much. That’s a lesson in getting caught up in your own conspiracy theory. I mean, who does that? Knowing what I know today, I think this kind gentleman probably meant well, he was trying to be positive. I’m sure he wasn’t comfortable around someone newly blind. That was probably hard for him. I’m sure he didn’t know what to talk about. He was probably just trying to let me know he was on my side.

(Brief pause)

Ahhhh!

Two things can be true at the same time.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I don’t even know you, son.

TR
We weren’t friends. But then again, if we’re gonna keep it real, Crystal reminded me that some friends turn out to not really be friends when disability enters the picture.

Krystle
And I lost a lot of friends at 16 because my friends thought that I was strange. Now that I was losing my eyesight. Because I had a cane. They felt like Krystle you can see you don’t need that cane with you. And I’m like, I do need the cane because I can’t see everything anymore. We were going into a club one time y’all need to take that why you got to take that with you. I’m like because you not gonna hold on to me all night, are you? You know, so some friends. They kind of grew out of our friend season.

TR
Fax.
By the way, I have some thoughts about an episode about the impact of disability on relationships. If you’re interested in sharing some of your stories, hit me up at ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

Marlett:

Thomas in Conversation with Marlett
I’m not interrogating you!

Marlett:
I answered it by saying that this was important because we used to do things together. Go out and this was the plan when we came up here. And we had a hiccup in that plan.

TR
hiccups are annoying, but they pass. Hiccups can be distracting. That’s both to the person experiencing them. And those in earshot.

I watched several newly blind people over the years fall victim to distractions, I worry about those new to blindness today, we have a lot more access in comparison to 20 years ago. Of course, that’s great. But it can also be a real distraction for some.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I think about this. If I had access to the stuff that I have access to now, movies with AD, the books, the…

Marlett:
The books, You were going through …
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I wasn’t going through that many books because it was just those CDs…

Marlett:
Right, and they were just coming in the mail…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, there wasn’t. I had like two, but I didn’t have the NLS yet.

Marlett:
Okay,

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I didn’t have that yet. What I’m saying is that if I had Netflix and stuff like that,

Marlett:
yeah, two weeks!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I would be still in that bed Bee. (Laughing)

Marlett:
We would argue, but I would have said, two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You would have had to take my phone. (Laughs)

TR
I’m not saying that access to these things isn’t valuable. Heck, no. I think it’s more about how we use that access. Temporary healthy escapes are fine, but please, don’t stay there. During my conversation with crystal, I was reminded that what can appear as a distraction may actually contribute to a person moving forward.

Krystle
I think I was silent for almost a year. All I would do is go to sleep. Listen to music. Oh my god tweets southern hummingbird album. That was it. For me. That was my medicine. I used to listen to that all the time in the house. Crystal’s

TR
We know disability requires an adjustment from the individual and their families. It got me wondering, did Marlett have any music that helped her during our early days,

Marlett:
it was a song that I listened to when I was younger. When I would watch you I remember you know, Marlett you did that. When I was going through something, I would just lay on the, like it was a futon or couch or couch or whatever it was called. And I played this one song all the time. The lyrics were written by Charlie Chaplin, Geoffrey Parson, and John Turner. And the person who sang the song was Diana Ross.
— Music starts softly in the background
And the songs name is smile.
(As Marlett recites the lyrics the song’s lyrics are sung in the back ground.)
There’s a section and she says,
Light up your face with gladness
Hide every trace of sadness
Although a tear may be ever so near
That’s the time you must keep on trying
Smile
What’s see use of crying
You’ll find that life is still worthwhile
If you just Smile

And I replay that over and over and over. I know that the song was about strength that we had an ourselves it was also for me to go into that time. So when I would come upstairs, and I was like, he has to smile again.
He has to get up.

TR
I would have never guessed Diana Ross. If anything, I thought it was gonna be Mary J Blige. Marlett, she’s more of a movie person than a music person. Sci-Fi all day.

All forms of art can be encouraging. What’s your thing?
For me, it’s definitely music. Both lyrics and instrumentation. I found myself repeating Chuck D’s line from “Welcome to the Terror dome”. I got so much trouble on my mind. Refuse to lose.
That song just gets me hype for anything. But there were two albums and specific songs that really resonated with me. Kanye West “Jesus Walks that was that old Kanye!
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
And I’m not a religious person, you know? But the devil is trying to bring me down. Jesus Walks. Like something’s trying to bring you down. The devil’s trying to bring you … you know that was my mother’s thing, anything that’s negative is the devil.

Marlett:
When things are going good, the devil comes in and he tries to pull you down.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
the other one was when you got me because you thought I would like it, the John Legend CD. You were like, you’re gonna like this. This is your style. And I was like you don’t know my style. (Laughing) And I’m like ah damn, she knows my style.

The couple laughs.

When it’s cold outside there’s no need to worry because I’m so warm inside. You give me peace when the storm’s outside… yeh, that joint. That joint right there! Woo!

— Swoosh effect
TR:
Hey Y’all, not sure if you noticed, but in these last two episodes, there’s been a bunch of references to music or dancing which sort of inherently implies music.
I created a public playlist on Spotify with songs that were inspired by or actually mentioned in these two episodes.
I’ll link you there on this episodes blog post. If you’re on Spotify, search for Dancing with Reid My Mind Radio.
Back to the episode
— Reverse swoosh effect

TR
Art really does play a significant role in our adjustment. multiple roles in fact. Distraction, escape, healing, encouraging, motivating, both as a consumer and a creator.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Thinking about it now, you know a lot more now then you did then about well this experience but in general, I would say mental health. Right? How do you think you would handle that today? What do you think your reaction would be? Would you still have a two week timeframe?

Marlett:
Oh yeah!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You would? (Laughing)

Marlett :
Yeh, hmm hmm, yeh!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
So I’m correct in saying I never had a chance to get more than…

Marlett:
No you didn’t. I definitely would have had two weeks.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You think two weeks is enough?
Marlett:
I definitely would have two weeks. And not not to get over it. But to get up. So if you think …

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I was up! I wasn’t laying in the bed.

Marlett:
I needed you present. You were not present.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Ok, I may have not been present.

Marlett:
I needed you present. I needed to. I’m not saying that. Two weeks because you would sit a lot in that chair. You had a chair that you were sitting in that chair and I…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I sat on the couch.
on the couch.
Marlett:
It was a chair over here and maybe the couch downstairs, but you sat.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No the chair wasn’t up here that you talked about in the room. That wasn’t up here at that time.

Marlett:
I had a chair on my side and you had a chair…

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh wait, wait, wait, way you write you write you write? I didn’t sit in that chair.

Marlett:
You sat in the chair. You sat in that chair, sometimes it would be all the way back. And I was like Oh, he’s got to get up outta there.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Oh, maybe I did. Damn, now I don’t remember.
I remember being downstairs.

Marlett:
You weren’t really downstairs too much.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I was watching Comedy Central.

Marlett:
Okay!

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
That wasn’t up here oh, maybe I had it up here too. Oh, you might be right.
I don’t know if I’m going to use any of this. (Giggles)

Marlett:
Huh!

TR
The small details that we think are so important at a given time, apparently fade away. I guess they don’t really matter. What I get now is that my wife just wanted her husband. How can I be upset with that?
Two weeks. That’s it y’all!

— Music begins A mellow romantic groove.?
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Yeah. I was a little angry about the two weeks. But I feel like because I was thinking that two weeks was to go and get out. And I feel like you’re right. It was just to get up. And then to get moving. Damn, this might make me look bad.
look bad. But it is what it is. It’s the real truth.

Marlett:
Did you think you were perfect?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No.

Marlett:
Is that your ego?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
No.

Marlett:
So what is it then? For you to think that you deserved more time than what you got? Why? Why would you think that?

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
Because it was hard.

TR
It was hard because I wasn’t ready? Like Krystle said in the beginning.

Krystle
It’s okay to feel what I’m feeling.
TR in Conversation with Marlett:
I guess you get props for this then.
Well, thank you. (Kiss)

Marlett:
I think that was my job to do as your wife.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
That’s cool. I could still say thank you.
TR
Shout out to eyes like mine, Krystle Allen for inspiring this episode.

Shout out to the Queen of the Reid Compound, My wife of just about 30 years y’all Marlett. I appreciate you sharing your time. It’s tax season. So she extra busy right now. But also sharing your truth.

Since we’re talking about sharing, why not share this podcast with your friends and family? There’s lots of folks out there adjusting to disability individuals and their families. And yes, of course, there’s some real challenges. I just think it’s easier when you don’t go it alone.

That’s why we’re here.

Now here’s what you can say to your friends and family.

Hey, fill in the blank. I need to tell you about this dope podcast I just know you’re going to dig. It’s called Reid My Mind Radio. You can find it wherever you get podcasts. They have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
Check this. You have to know how to spell it the right way. I mean, it’s really the only way.

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You want to do the sign off?

Marlett:
Sure.

R to the E I D!

D, D,D! (Giggles)

TR in Conversation with Marlett:
You don’t do that part!

The couple laughs!

Marlett:
Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Marlett:
peace

Hide the transcript

TR:
Welcome back Reid My Mind Radio Family, as we move forward with our Art of Adjustment season.
As mentioned, I’m doing something a little different with these series of 8 episodes.
Each episode featuring the conversation with my guest, will be followed by a separate episode more personal to me. Based on some aspect of our conversation that resonates with my personal experience of adjusting to becoming Blind.

The purpose?

A challenge to myself and us all to really find the ways we relate to others. I think it could prove to be encouraging.

You know, my guest actually breaks it down.

Krystle:
in order for you to move forward, you have to find within yourself to accept that maybe this is how I’m going to continue on with life, be visually impaired. And that doesn’t mean that I can’t have joy. That doesn’t mean that I’m not going to live a full life. It’s going to be some challenges, of course. But it doesn’t mean that there is no life after it.

TR:
That’s Krystle Allen, from Newark, New Jersey.

Stand up Jersey! (Filtered voice as if on a telephone)

The co- founder of Eyes Like Mine Incorporated.

Krystle:
I am a short five, one and a half Afro Latina female. And I have curly wavy hair to the middle of my back. A nice round face, A rich chocolate brown complexion, a nice smile, dark brown eyes.

I am legally blind.

TR:
In addition to all of that, Krystle is the eldest of seven siblings and a proud aunty.

We’ll get into our conversation, but y’all know I need my intro music!

— Reid My Mind Intro

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
I want to first talk a little bit about adjustment in general, that’s a big part of what this season is all about. So, can you talk a little bit about the early days of your adjustment?

Krystle:
My adjustment to vision loss, it took a while to pack its punch at me.

Before losing my eyesight, I had never met anyone who was visually impaired or anywhere along the spectrum of vision loss.

Once that was given to me in different settings, from a medical perspective to just people I know who had the lived experience I began the process of accepting it.

TR:
I’m a firm believer in the power of people in our adjustment process.
While many different people play a role, there’s just something special about lived experience.

Krystle:
I think my family was going through it a little more than I was at first because they wanted to be there for me. And sometimes they were a little overwhelming with being there for me. But it seemed like they were going through whatever stages of adjustments originally more than I was, because I spent a lot of time with treatment for a year, with my condition in and out of different facilities. I was quiet at first, and very unsure. So, my family was very concerned about me being so quiet, because they didn’t know what I was thinking or how I was feeling about my new lifestyle now.

TR:
Still unsure of what it meant to be legally blind, Krystle, like so many of us experiencing blindness focused on how that would limit the things she’d be able to do.

Krystle:
Little by little, I just kind of tested myself, just because I wanted to try to begin being curious enough. I wanted to just like be the big sister and do the things that older siblings do for the younger siblings. And then I was also being a little selfish.

Music begins: A twisting synth opens up into a calm, mid tempo bounce.

My little brother, because he was turning six and learning his colors. I asked him do you know, red, yellow and green? And he’d say yes.

So when the light turns green, that means we can walk. When it’s yellow, we might have to speed up or slow down, or just stop. And when it’s red, we just gonna stop and he’s like, okay, okay, I was like, you have to hold my hand. He’s like, alright, so I wasn’t using a cane at the time.

TR:
Not unless her little brother’s name is Cain! (Chuckles) But she was a teenager, what do you expect?

Krystle:
And at that time, I was like the in house babysitter even more because my siblings were younger, my mother had to work. My grandmother was working. Everybody was out living their life.
When they needed a babysitter, it was me. So when me and Nick were alone, we would sneak out the house and go to the bodega and get us candy and junk and all the stuff we like, because one thing my family likes to do is give me a little change.

— Sound of change and money.

And then it turned to catching the bus downtown and going into stores to shop for clothes and I always made sure he had his McDonald’s and whatever.

And then one day, my mother found out me and Nick was out.

Sample Exhale… Ooh! You’re in trouble now.

Krystle:
That turned into one day my mom really really needed someone to pick up my other siblings from school and so she realized that I got back home thing, she was like, (in a voice as if imitating her mom) )”Krystle can you go pick up the kids from school?” And I was like, oh, oh now I can go pick them up huh?

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Chuckles

Krystle:
Being the oldest, I had to do a lot. I learned how to cook at nine years old.

My mother tricked me. She was like, (In a voice as if imitating her mom ) “Oh, you like scrambled eggs, right? (Chuckles) Do you want to try and make some scrambled eggs? So she’s showing me how to do it because I do need to know how to make it. And then all it took was that one time. “All right, Krystle, come make the breakfast for the kids.”

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Laughs

Krystle:
(Chuckles) Then scrambled eggs turned into baked chicken. But you know, my mom was giving me good tools to set me up for being just independent without having any vision loss.

That was kind of like me stepping into different stages of my independence again, because I was getting my role back as a big sister. I was learning me and my family was learning me as a person who was legally blind.

And then more and more things started happening with my adjustment.

TR :
Eventually losing even more of her sight, Krystle learned to use the white cane.

She used thick markers to start expressing herself in poetry. She began meeting others who shared tips for adapting. She was on her way to figuring it out.

Krystle:
I wasn’t sure of my vision limitations. It just took me so much longer to do things. But I realized that once I did try to see if I could still do what I would do regularly, that it was still achievable. I just had to either use a tool or figure out a different technique.

TR:
One of the things she figured out; Eyes Like Mine.

Krystle:
I worked in the field of different nonprofit non related to blindness in the support capacity. I have always been a part of community development. My dad’s side of the family. They’re very involved in community building in Newark where I live. My dad would pick me up and spend time with me, he would always take me to meetings. And then when I was at the meetings, I began volunteering. From stuffing envelopes to doing telephone banking, to canvassing around communities.

TR:
This exposed her to not only an understanding of activism and leadership but also influential people in the community.

Krystle:
Our current Senator Cory Booker, he was at my 21st birthday party. And he was very instrumental in me getting connected with the New Jersey Commission for the Blind to receive some of my blindness services. And I used to go to his meeting, volunteering, and canvassing and being a part of PSAs as a teenager, before my vision loss, and after my vision loss. So it was kind of like embedded in me.

TR:
Serving the community that is. Maybe it’s from observing other family members or being the oldest of seven, either way Krystle is a natural leader and problem solver.

While going through a breakup she came to a realization.

Krystle:
He’s not even thinking about me right now!

I called my friend, who we both share the same condition that led to our vision loss. And I just asked her, I said, Hey, you want to start a nonprofit organization? And she was like, Yeah I’m with it.

Neither one of us knew what was really going to happen. We didn’t have like a blueprint at first. And we were just thinking like, we’re young. We’re women of color. We’re visually impaired. But it wasn’t a lot of young people that we knew of at that time, in New Jersey, that were doing things to bring awareness.

In 2014, we were able to draft our bylaws and articles of incorporation. And in 2015, we received our 501 C three tax exempt status.

TR:
They began with events like a fashion show where they teamed up with an eye wear company and modeled cool looking shades.

Krystle:
We wanted to kind of like debunk the stigma of Ray Charles glasses. We want to be in style, but we also wanted to bring awareness to people about the importance of protecting their vision, and encourage blind people to feel good about fashion. We didn’t want to remain so event orientated because we really wanted to get to the nitty gritty of things where we can find ourselves connecting with other people’s stories in the blindness community to share their stories and our stories with our community near and far.

TR
That led to other programming including support groups, partnerships with the Lyon’s Club, the Miss Blind Dive Empowerment Pageant and Dancing with the Blind.

Krystle:
And some of these titles and names of programs might sound a little, I guess, funky, to some people, but they are heart feeling, programs and projects.

There were people who doubted us. People who said we should give our idea to other nonprofits under them.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Really!

Krystle:
Yep. And if we would have listened to them, we wouldn’t be making it this year to our 10th anniversary.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Wow. Well, congratulations on reaching your 10 years.

What was that about, folks telling you to give your ideas to other people?

Krystle:
It could have been many different reasons. Sometimes just the lack of understanding where we were going, what our vision was, everything is not for everyone. I understand that in the field of community development and nonprofit you’ll meet all types of people with different roles and agendas. I have learned that you’ll meet the “Taters”. The spectators, the haters, the speculators, the commentators. You know? (Laughs)

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Laughing…

Krystle
All of those taters. (Laughing)

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
The Tater Tots! (Laughing)

Krystle:
I just know that we have been very blessed. I’m still very grateful. Because I’ve learned so much. I’ve made mistakes within my nonprofit. But with those mistakes I’ve learned from them, and it’s given me opportunities to really grow as an individual and grow as a leader.

Every leader doesn’t know everything. And is the reason why we need communities to support us so that we can elevate and we can continue to enhance our impact.

Leaders need people not just to serve, but to guide them too.

Audio from a prior Miss Blind Diva Empowerment Pageant:
Co founder Naquela Wright Privo:
“This is about empowerment right? And so I wrote this song to explain my journey with my blindness and where I’m at now. Singing….
No more with the hiding, no more with the jokes, I’m going to face everything I don’t know
It’s time for me to live my life
And I can’t believe I found what I wasn’t looking for”
… continues under TR VVO

TR:
The Eyes Like Mine Miss Blind Diva Empowerment Pageant began first with an open call for nominations of a Blind woman who is a pillar in their community.
Someone who stands out.

Krystle3:23 AM Friday, February 9, 2024
In a way that made you want to connect with more women who are visually impaired and blind.

We announced her in our first year anniversary at a restaurant called Diamonds in the rough. Jay Z’s mom, Gloria Carter actually was one of the owners.

We were able to welcome Patricia Eboo (Spelling uncertain)as our very first. We crowned her and she gave a speech. We decided, to do a full pageant. And we knew that it would be the only one for blind women in New Jersey. And we just wanted to bring more attention to more dynamic women in the blindness community.

A pageant coach, we had a host, we had a DJ who is blind, Mary Kay, makeovers for our ladies.
Since 2017, we have had a pageant every year, even during the pandemic, where we had two virtual pageants in 2020, and 2021.

TR:
From it’s origin, Miss Blind Diva was never your typical beauty pageant.

Krystle:
We do emphasize the word empowerment because a lot of women who have applied and participated, it may have been their very first time participating in a pageant. And the name came from a nickname I gave myself when I first began college, which was Miss Blind Diva.

TR:
It’s actually sort of two pageants in one.
Miss Blind Diva Empowerment and the Miss Independent YouTube Challenge.
For the latter, contestants submit a video on YouTube that displays their independence.
That could mean so many things for each person.

The winners are determined based on the number of likes.

Krystle:
And then that evolved into getting a crown and sash, a fan page, some small cash, and other different things like photo shoots and interviews, being a part of the public service announcement with a local cable channel to even attending the ultimate women’s expo and meeting Fantasia and Abby from Dance Moms, like it’s really been growing and growing and growing.

TR
Of course Miss Blind Diva also wins prizes.

Krystle
Now she receives $1,000, the title, the crown, different appearances that the organization is that
her fan page. Mondays now at 7pm where you can connect with our title holders, on their fan pages. And they’ll speak about things of interest things related to blindness, things related to them being the title holder.

We’ve had women participate as close as New Jersey, Texas, California, Maryland, Florida, Pennsylvania and as far as Kenya, Russia and Jamaica.

TR:
Is the next Miss Blind Diva part of the Reid My Mind Radio Family?

Krystle:
and we just hope that this year will bring another great experience. It will be the eighth annual Miss Blind Diva Empowerment Pageant , which we will hold on October 4, and fifth and 2024.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Are there pageants Like that in other states that you know of?

Krystle
I’m not sure, I don’t like to spill out inaccurate information.
I do know that they have Miss wheelchair New Jersey and Miss wheelchair America. There’s one called Miss amazing for another disability community that I’m not really familiar with. So there’s all kinds of pageants but I haven’t heard of another one that is for blind or visually impaired women. But I know that we were the first in New Jersey,

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Well, I’m gonna say you’re the first in the States period. That’s what I’m gonna say. Anybody want to correct me bring your receipts? Let’s go!

Krystle
Laughing….Oh my goodness!

TR:
I respect that commitment to accurate information even when marketing.

No need to lie or stretch the truth when you have catchy phrases like….

(TR in Conversation with Krystle: plus)
The first one that I noticed was Going growing and glowing. Is that right?

Krystle:
So it just happened that during one of our witness support groups, I was just kind of sharing a message with the attendees. And I just said, you know, we are looking forward to our 10th year anniversary and we’re counting down to just evolving and expanding and going growing and glowing.

TR:
Her friend and co-founder Naquela Wright, thought that could be a good slogan.

Krystle:
It represents where we are going, how we are growing, and how we show up shining around the world. It just represents a lot of empowerment, not just in women, but in the blindness community. For us to have the visibility that we deserve in all areas.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Ok! That’s a whole other G status. I like it.

TR:
Then there’s; Eyes Like Mine Where vision loss doesn’t break us, it builds us.

Krystle:
There is life after blindness. It’s an opportunity for us to just connect with the life that we can still assume, the acceptance of our lifestyle, and the culture of blindness.

in order for you to move forward, you have to find within yourself to accept that maybe this is how I’m going to continue on with life, be visually impaired. And that doesn’t mean that I can’t have joy. That doesn’t mean that I’m not going to live a full life. It’s going to be some challenges, of course. But it doesn’t mean that there is no life after it.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
That’s a perfect way for you to tell me a little bit more about the support groups that you offer.

Krystle:
Usually, the structure of our support groups are that we have featured speakers, we may play some virtual games. We often make sure that everyone who’s attending can exercise their voice, we want to make sure that it’s a talk with you not a talk at you.

The support groups right now are all virtual.

Every first Thursday of the month at 7pm. On zoom, we will have our women of Power Support Group.

TR:
In addition to the Women’s group there’s a men’s group. And periodically, they come together. I had the honor of being a speaker during one of these joint sessions.

I gotta be honest y’all, I think I lost the fellas that day.

I joked about how their name was something like Gentlemen of Leisure while the women are Women of Empowerment. I suggested they step up their game. It was a joke.

They didn’t like it.

Ok, in hindsight, perhaps it wasn’t a good introduction.
I still think it was funny

Krystle:
I’m listening to you, fellas. I really, really am. I’m trying to do more things that represent the men. And I need men to guide me because I don’t know, your life. And my voice was so light. I’m like, Are they gonna even listen to me? I have some men coming at me. Like, why isn’t there a pageant for the blind men?

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
If that’s the case organize it. See how many people you’re gonna get! (The two laugh….)

TR:
I’m saying, fellas. I don’t know what that would look like but go ahead and put it together.

As with the other programming from Eyes Like Mine, Krystle recognizes the importance of understanding that our conversations and interest go beyond blindness.

Krystle:
We have our leisure moments within the support group. It’s important that we kind of had the diversity and conversation. So that’s why we don’t just speak about blindness. And sometimes there are people who are new to the visually impaired community and some who might be a little more suited. So it’s a mixture of all kinds of people. It’s all adults.

Krystle:
Our support groups are under a network through the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and Visually Impaired. Aspire peer support network where it is over 60 plus, peer led support groups across the state of New Jersey, virtually and in person. And Eyes Like Mine organizes the support under this network, so that more people can connect with information resources, and the overall socialization.

TR:
For those who may not be the type to want to have in person conversations whether virtual or not, Eyes Like Mine has you covered.

Krystle:
So we have a group on Facebook called the Peer Support Hub, a division of Eyes Like Mine And anyone can join it. It’s a private group. So you can request access. And there’s a little over 300 members in It. It’s a space where you can share your thoughts, your images, your videos, if you have events or programs like you have your show Thomas , we want your posts about your interview.
It’s a safe space, it’s a way that people can access more information and meet more people.

I’m gonna do my first live cooking. It’s called crushing it in the kitchen. And I’m gonna be showing my guess, viewers how I use my independent skills to cook in my kitchen.
And it’s also a way for me to be encouraged to cook because I’m living the single life and Uber Eats gets expensive. I can cook, I just hate the process. I just wish that the meal would appear and then you know, and then the dishes would disappear

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
You gotta work on that one. (Laughs )Let me know when you get that going. Yeah.
So what’s on the menu? What you cooking? Not those same scrambled eggs, right? (Laughs)

Krystle:
(Annoyingly)You know what? No!

TR:
Ok, y’all, apparently I have to work on my humor. It was a joke.

But what’s no joke is Krystle, doing her thing.
Krystle
I’m gonna try to make it as regular as I can. It’s a personal thing. But it’s also in conjunction with my organization, because there are a lot of Blind people who are afraid to cook. There’s a lot of people who might just make easy things. Why shouldn’t we expand our idea on being comfortable in the kitchen?

I’m going to try to do a step by step with all of my process, and I’m gonna make mistakes because this is live (chuckles) it’s not scripted and it won’t be edited.

To those who are visually impaired or blind, it will open up their minds to the possibilities that if they don’t feel comfortable cooking right now, there is still hope that they can become comfortable. And it’s okay to make mistakes.

When I do make mistakes they’ll know that okay, it’s alright to make a mistake. You could still finish cooking your meal.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
That’s a great metaphor for adjusting period.

Music begins: A bright and cool upbeat Hip Hop jam.

TR:
Adjustment doesn’t have to be painful!

Support also looks like Dancing with the Blind.

Open to all age groups, it’s the Eyes Like Mine version of Dancing with the Stars.

Krystle:
But in this instance, our celebrity is the blind, or the visually impaired or the deaf blind. And their partner will be someone who’s sighted. Dancing with the Blind can be coupled in a group of two people or more. Once you find your person or if you need us to find a partner for you, we can do that as well. You can select whatever genre of dance or music that you want to prepare for. They have to pick a team name, they have to have a particular kind of costume, whatever represents their style of dance. It’s judged. And we have vendors who have resources, products and services. We have host, our DJ pumpin’ it up. At the recital competition, whoever wins at the end will go home with $500.

TR:
Even Newark’s Mayor, Ras Baraka, son of the writer, poet and activist Amiri Baraka participated.

The event, which sounds amazing, concludes with a group choreographed dance.

Krystle:
Our champions from 2023, Their team name was called Hot muffins.
It was a couple of people, one who was newly visually impaired, the young lady her name is muffin. And her partner His name is Chris. They did a Latin fusion to Taki Taki the song that features Cardi B. It was really fly how they did their dance.

Muffin is very new to the visually impaired community. So it was just such a emotional victory for her when she won.

So we’re looking forward to bringing it back. This is also going to be with the support of the Newark Arts Council who selected Dancing with the Blind at their art start many grants application. This is our first time bringing it back to Newark since the pandemic,

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
okay, I love it. I don’t know if I want to take that money, but I’m gonna have to think about it. (Laughs)

Krystle:
Yes! C’mon Thomas.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
So it has to be two people, I can’t just come in by myself and just do the Wop? I can’t just Wop it out.

Krystle:
WHAT? No. No. Mm, no, not at all. (Laughs)

TR
Y’all are lucky. I don’t play when it comes to the Wop.

Krystle along with her dance partner Tony who is also Blind teamed up for some salsa dancing.
! (Filtered voice)

TR:
Eyes Like Mine, Miss Blind Diva Empowerment, Miss Independent, Support Groups; all of these programs focus on providing for others.

Krystle:
This may I will be entering a milestone birthday year. I will be 40 And I realized that I do a lot for other people. And it’s very rewarding to me, because that’s just in my spirit. But I need to start doing more things for myself personally.

So one of those things, is challenging myself to have different experiences.

I was born and raised in Newark New Jersey. And this is where my organization was founded also. So I just wanted to do something that represented my city. And that kind of had a correlation to some of my interests, which is fashion and connecting with people. So I entered the Miss Newark USA pageant.

TR:
The goal of Miss Newark USA, created in 2018, is to spread awareness of pageantry, with workshops, etiquette classes, modeling classes, and amazing experiences to enhance careers.

Krystle:
Directed and organized by Alicia Marie blanks. And her mother, Miss candy a mother and daughter duo, women of color. So that was even more empowering for me to participate in it.

TR:
Like other pageants, Miss Newark USA consists of different competitions including congeniality, fashion and talent

Krystle:
I sang the song “Vivir Mi Vida” by Marc Anthony, which means living my life, I thought it was a very great song to represent who I am, because I am just doing that living my life. And just being curious enough about what goes on in life to attach myself to different things.

And then when it was time to announce who will be crowned Miss Newark USA 2023 They announced my name and I was so excited.

Tr in Conversation with Krystle:
Mimics the air horn!

Krystle:
(Chuckles) I’ll say I’ve had other wins in life, but I never won any competition outside of a spelling bee in third grade.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Especially for people adjusting to disability, whatever that is, I think winds are really important.

Tell me about some of the wins that you had throughout your life.

Krystle:
My dad was diagnosed with leukemia in February of 2021. And then my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer in March of 2021.

And by November 2021 , they both were declared a clean bill of health. That was a big win for me, because I still have them.

It has kind of transform me in a way where I’m trying to really appreciate life , for what it is.

I can wake up everyday and I get to talk to my parents, laugh with them, get annoyed with them, learn from them.

Getting to see my organization reach 10 years. I’m a woman of color with her own nonprofit for representing blindness.

I had people doubt my leadership, and people doubt my leadership to this day, which is fine. I’m glad that I don’t get easily discouraged.

it was a big support network that I have with volunteers, family, friends, friends of friends. People who are just getting to know me, they’re getting to know the organization and just having the chance to have someone believe in you.

TR:
Now, I can’t top that but I think there’s one more win.
Miss Newark, the original Miss Blind Diva, you, Miss Krystle Allen are an official member of the Reid My Mind Radio family!

— Air horn

Krystle:
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me and giving me the opportunity to share my message on your platform. I really appreciate you. it’s great to see blind black men doing their thing.

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
There it is! Yeh, and winning dance competitions too.

Krystle:
Ooh! You spoke it, you spoke

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
I gets busy.

TR:
For the record, I can do more than the Wop.
I can do the Smurf, the Baseball, the Running Man, the Caveman, The Pee Wee Herman, Electric boogie.
I’m not allowed to break dance any more though.

“Lawd if you’re listening. HELP!” Dave Chapelle “Half Baked”

Music begins: A chill, mid tempo groove.

TR:
Dancing is one thing, but Krystle, Eyes Like Mine are truly doing their thing for the community.

Krystle:
We are in partnership with the Source of Knowledge Bookstore, which is the oldest African American bookstore in New Jersey, Vistas Education and the United Way of greater Newark. And we have done about 80 installments of Braille overlaying African American children books, books like “Chocolate Me” by Taye Diggs, “If Kids Run the World”, “The 1619 Project” and a host of other books in our library to encourage access to grow literacy, and just overall literacy for children to build their vocabulary and gain knowledge.

TR:
recruitment for the 2024 Miss Blind Diva Empowerment Pageant begins on March 1.
The application is available now on their website.

Krystle:
EyesLikeMine.org

TR:
That’s where you can learn more about Dancing with the Blind and all of the activities and events from Eyes Like Mine.

Krystle:
The Peer Support Hub, a division of eyes like mine Inc, on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter or X, YouTube our handle is @EyesLikeMine and our general email address events at EyesLikeMine.org

TR:
Reid My Mind Radio Family, let’s send Krystle and the whole Eyes Like Mine crew some love.
Welcome her to the family, let her know you support what she’s doing and just send her some energy to continue to be determined and not get dissuaded by the taters.

Next up according to the plan for this season, I’m continuing my Self-Portrait.
In the next episode, we’ll hear more from Krystle but I’ll show you how it relates to my own experience.

For example

TR in Conversation with Krystle:
Is there anything that you would want to tell a young crystal now if you could go back when you first got diagnosed?

Krystle:
I would say to myself it’s okay, it’s gonna be okay.
It’s okay to feel what I’m feeling.

TR:
This struck me. It made me think of something specific from my early blindness days.
I’ll talk about it during the self portrait…

— phone ringing

along with a very special guest.

But until then, please, continue to help us get out the word about
all of the incredible people featured here on the podcast.
Tell someone you know who can benefit and enjoy what we’re serving up
that they can find it themselves wherever they get podcasts.
Explain that we have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com.
Go ahead and tell them that’s R to the E I D…

— Sample(“D! And that’s me in the place to be. Slick Rick)

Like my last name.

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace!

Sample: “Doctor said I need a backeotomy!” Dave Chapelle, “Half Baked”

Hide the transcript

TR:

Happy New Year Reid My Mind Radio Family!
I’ve missed Y’all.

I know that may sound weird because I don’t personally know everyone who listens and or or reads the podcast.
Yeh, I said reads, shout out to all of those who consume the podcast transcripts.
Access is dope.

Even though I don’t personally know everyone consuming the podcast, knowing that you do rock with Reid My Mind Radio means we share something.
There’s an exchange of energy taking place.

When I get close to shutting the doors on this thing, something keeps me motivated to rock on!
Y’all are a big part of that.
Thank you!

Twenty twenty four will make 10 years that I’ve been producing audio as Reid My Mind Radio.
It’s also twenty years of becoming Blind.
It’s why I knew I needed to spend some time focusing on what I personally think is the best thing about this podcast – the people.
I want to produce more of the episodes that really dive into our experiences.

I want to focus on adjustment and how art can aid in the process.
I sort of see adjusting as an art form.
There’s no one way to do it.
However, there’s so much creativity involved that I thought it’s worth exploring.

Ten years of podcasting, twenty years of adjusting to blindness … oh and here’s the big one,
Music begins: “Five, Ten, Fifteen Twenty…” The Presidents

TR:

The one I’m the most proud of, y’all ready… thirty years as a husband to my wife Marlett.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro Music

TR:
Five years ago, I did something I could have never imagined doing when I was a young kid.

In fact, even as an adult, I would have never thought it would be something I’d do.

In 2019, I celebrated 15 years of being Blind!

“Hold Up, Hold Up. Hold up! Say What? “The voice of a small child.

TR:

Celebrating life, my family, clarity of blindness.
(Laughs)
When have you heard that phrase before? Clarity of blindness?
It’s true.

Five years ago and still today, I’m aware that my response to becoming Blind could have been the beginning of a lifetime of running.
Running from blindness that is.
A never ending marathon of doing everything possible to try and escape it.
That sounds exhausting.
But there’s lots of people needlessly sweating, breathing hard attempting to get away.

Meanwhile, it’s always there whether they acknowledge it or not.

But this isn’t really about them.
Well, not really.

This podcast has allowed me to paint profiles of people I find compelling.
It’s also one of the ways I explore aspects of disability.
My way of not running but rather embracing disability in a way that makes sense for me.

This season, I’m challenging myself to create a sort of self-portrait.
That’s not to say I’m doing a whole season on my personal experiences even though some suggested they’d be interested in that.

Over the years of speaking with various people on and off the podcast about disability, I realized that although we differ demographically, we can see some aspect of ourselves in each other.
More than often we share the emotions that come out of similar experiences.
Sometimes, we may see things in others that we don’t like or fear in ourselves.

In this season called The Art of Adjustment, I’m speaking with four individuals all with their own stories of adjustment.
Every episode this season, featuring a guest, will be followed up with a continuation of this self-portrait episode.
To be honest, I have no idea what that will be.
I’m not producing the self-portraits in that straight forward way.
Rather, I’m confident that the experience of adjusting to disability inevitably connects us and
therefore I’m sure there will be elements of our conversation that run parallel to my life.

As I record this episode, I’m thinking I’ll use sound bytes of a guest in the self-portrait episode or maybe it’s something else.
I really don’t know, we’ll find out together.

For the record, this is not about motivation or inspiration.
I’m not someone interested in motivational speaking.
In fact, I don’t really even know what that means.

Clip from Saturday Night Live:
“My name is Matt Foley. And I am a motivational speaker.
(Laughs from audience)
Now let’s get started by letting me give you a little bit of a scenario of what my life is all about.
First off I am 35 years old . I am divorced and I live in a van down by the river.
(Applause and laughs from audience)
Now you kids are probably saying to yourselves (yelling) hey I’m going to go out and get the world by the tail and wrap it around and pull it down and put it in my pocket. Well I’m here to tell you that you’re probably gonna find out as you go out there that you’re not going to amount to jack squat.”
(Laughs and applause from audience fades out)

TR:
I know there are lots of people with that in their linked in profile and claim to inspire, but what exactly do they do?
Ableism just totally messed up the word inspirational for me. I know many of you know exactly what I’m talking about.
You’ve probably been called inspirational for taking a walk, shopping, brushing your own teeth.
Inspiring for actually doing something, perhaps? Maybe it’s just my own issue.

I do want this podcast to encourage those adjusting to disability.
Even though circumstances and details are different, I think those adjusting to any situation can be encouraged.
But, my main concern are those with disabilities.

There’s an alternative to running away from disability.
Stop, turn around and confront it head on.
See what’s there.

I’m not here to tell anyone how to be Blind, how to be disabled.
But I am here to tell you that there’s real value in examining what it means to you.

So I’ll examine in real time

In this season, I’m speaking with those who in their own way have a variety of outlets that allow them to embrace and explore their disability to determine what it means to them.

Whether through artistic endeavors like writing or film making, social entrepreneurship, sports and more, all of my guest joining me this season have so much to offer the world, their communities and you.

?- Music Begins: a heavy synth opens into a driving drum beat.

For those new to disability, no matter what that is, my wish is to be a part of you regaining your ability to imagine your future.

Recently a Reid My Mind Radio Family member reminded me of a time in my life when I couldn’t see myself in the future.
I may have mentioned it here before.
I compare it to being in a hallway with no doors.
Before blindness that hallway for me had lots of doors.
Each was an opportunity, a place for me to explore if I so chose.
Even the doors that were closed were in my mind never locked.
Being in that hallway, stuck with no doors or opportunities was I guess my feeling despair.
It was awful.
I don’t want that for you.
I don’t feel that way anymore and you won’t either.

rock with me and the rest of the Reid My Mind Radio family and I know one day you’ll realize your doors have returned.

In this season, I’m going to bring you what you’re used to from this podcast ; compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability in general.
Then in a continuous episode I’m calling my self-portrait, I’ll tie some aspect of the conversation with my awesome guests to my 20 years of blindness

If you know of anyone you think can benefit or appreciate what we’re doing here on R double M Radio, please let them know.
We’ll be back publishing episodes at 8 PM on the second and fourth Tuesday of the month
Tell them they should come rock with Reid My Mind Radio available wherever you get podcasts.
We have transcripts and more at ReidMyMind.com
Just remember, that’s R to the E I D!
— Sample: (“D! And that’s me in the place to be.
” Slick Rick)
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio outro
Peace!

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