Reid My Mind

Music Begins – A smooth, funky mid tempo Hip Hop beat

TR:

What’s good Reid My Mind Radio Family!

It’s me, your brother Thomas Reid. I hope you’re doing well.

Me? Why thank you for asking. I am doing well.

Today, we’re bringing you part three of the Flipping the Script on Audio Description series.

You know, this was never actually supposed to be a series. I originally planned for one episode but it was quickly evident that several people had something to share on the subject.

It got me thinking about Audio Description in two categories.
First, mainstream.

These are the writers and narrators creating AD for major television and film projects.

Then you have the independents – these consist of a varying degree of theater, live performance, museum and other sorts of description work.

Flipping the Script is all about promoting different voices, alternative views and Audio Description topics that are often overlooked.

As we’ve seen, this applies to both mainstream and independent.

I can’t say for sure this is the end of the Flipping the Script series but I can say it’s the last for 2020.

You know, just when I think I’m done with the topic…

Audio: “… they keep pulling me back in” Al Pacino in Godfather Part 3

Audio: “And here we go!” Slick Rick, A Children’s Story

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Intro
Rebecca:

My name is Rebecca Singh I am an Audio Describer also a performer. I’m the owner of Superior Description Services which is an Audio Description service which consults with the Blind and partially sighted community one hundred percent of the time. I am a cisgender woman of color and I live in Toronto Canada with my young family.

[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

How’d you get involved with Audio Description?

Rebecca:

I got involved with Audio Description through the theater actually. I have been a performer for a very long time and just over ten years ago I saw an audition posting for this thing I’d never really heard about, Audio Description and it was a class that I had to audition to get into. I got the part. Started training, that led to something of a building up of the industry here in Toronto.

— Music Begins – A dance track with a driving beat!

TR:

That’s right Y’all, in this third part of Flipping the Script on Audio Description we’re going international!

What’s that? Canada’s right there to the north? Ok, let’s cross the Atlantic.

Audio: Airplane in flight.

Elaine:

My name is Elaine Lillian Joseph. I’m from a city called Birmingham which is the second biggest city in the U.K. I’m a proud Birmie! I’m a Black woman. I’ve just got my hair done. I’ve got long light brown extensions with cane row on top. I’m wearing a floral long just below the knee length dress. I’m sitting in my friend’s bedroom because I’m currently quarantining with my friend’s family. I’ve been doing AD for just under two years. I work for ITV which is our second biggest channel after the BBC. I’m also a freelance Subtitler so I do subtitles for Hard of Hearing as well. A lot of accessibility going on.

TR:

Subtitling or what we know here in the states as Captioning was Elaine’s gateway to Audio Description.

A fan of film and television, she studied English and German in college — oh my bad, University

Elaine:

It always seemed like a natural thing to want to go into media. Finding out that there was this whole kind of world of accessibility and it’s not just, it’s not just transcription I guess. Not that there’s anything wrong with transcription but that you can be a bit creative with it. Doing subtitles for Hard of Hearing for example, doing a Horror film and working out how to describe the sound of of an alien creature and what words am I going to use to do that. It seemed like a natural transition from that to also thinking about how to describe things in general.

TR:

Prior to working at ITV, Elaine was Subtitling at another firm, BTI. it just so happened to be the employer of an influential colleague.,

Elaine:

Veronica Hicks, who kind of really kick started AD in the U.K., certainly. She used to sit directly behind me and she has this velvety plummy (chuckles) voice. I was sitting subtitling and thinking what is it that she does because it sounds fascinating.

TR:

Elaine asked around and learned more about Audio Description. Eventually she left BTI.

Elaine:

Everybody at my company knew that I really really wanted to do it. A position came up; they kind of said go for it! I tested and I got the job and I’ve been very very happy ever since.

TR:

Such an important thing to keep in mind — let people know you’re interested.

Today, Elaine has written AD for projects including a remake of Roswell. She’s been trained on narration so we can expect to hear her post pandemic. She also narrates live performances.

Elaine:

I usually do kind of Queer Cabaret events. There’s like dance, spoken word, lip syncing and things like that.

— Music ends with a drum solo

[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

I’m wondering what was the experience from your other work that you brought to Audio Description?

Rebecca:

I liked my drama class in junior high and I decided this is the best thing ever. I made my way to a performing arts high school and got bitten by the performing bug and was doing at first some film and television. As it goes as a performer, the work opportunities change.

Instead of just sitting by the phone as they say, I shifted over to doing more theater work, clowning.

[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

The whole get up, the makeup and everything? Or is that something different? (Chuckles)
Rebecca:

I think that’s a certain kind of clown. I was living in Montreal, like the city of Circ De’ Sole. It was a little bit more movement, physical theater based kind of stuff. The acrobatic storytelling with the body. I went to dance school for a while. So it was really more about expressing myself through the body.

[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

Okay, so you’re not jumping out of cars with like fifty other clowns. (Laughs)

Rebecca:

No!

TR:

She’s a creative person who found herself doing more arts administration. After moving to Toronto she moved back into the performance space gaining even more of the experience she needed for Audio Description. That physical performance for example prepared her for her first AD assignment describing physical comedy. And the administration work was quite valuable as it gave her a community of people to talk to or a network.

Rebecca:

There were people that had already worked with me in a different context and so I understood their concerns, what their fears were as producers. Everything from being afraid of touch tours because you’re potentially bringing a service animal onto a stage before the show. Rehearsal schedules, the time and space actors need. The types of conversations that are appropriate to have with directors if you’re having discussions. When is a good time to approach a designer if you have some questions? All of those things really help to mitigate any hesitancy that producers had in terms of adding something new to their palette.

TR:

Elaine’s love of reading & creative writing adds value to her description. But that merging of creativity with Audio Description has it’s challenges.

Elaine:

It’s a service and I think it’s important to remember it’s a service. There can be ego (Chuckles) in any industry and sometimes I think people forget the user and what’s most important to the user.

TR:

Rebecca has her own way of assuring Blind consumers are always centered throughout her process.

Rebecca:

Paid Blind and partially sighted consultants. I get two different kinds of feedback. I learned a long time ago it’s definitely not a one size fits all in terms of description. I have a roster of consultants with different interests as well. I also try to match the interests of the consultant. Some people like Opera, some people like dance. All of their different expertise filters into my descriptions. And they ask those really deep and probing questions that I have to find answers to.

[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

What kind of differences do you find between the Blind and partially sighted feedback that you get?

Rebecca:

One of the most striking differences is things like when I’m describing a set. With people who are partially sighted some people need to sit really really far up close and they want a different type of perspective in terms of what the set looks like. they may not be sitting in the same place. If they have a service animal they may be sitting further back in the theater. Maybe they’re closer to a speaker where that might cause some sound level things that need to be worked out. Sometimes light matters in a production, sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes I’ll get feedback from Blind consultants saying things like I really appreciated the fact that you called this thing almond shape because I know what an almond feels like. I really developed a sense of what words work better and what words are more inclusive over time working with both Blind and partially sighted consultants especially if they’re working together with me on the same show.

That’s the other benefit of having multiple consultants is that they can learn from one another and I always have a chance to bring in somebody new and widen my pool.

TR:

Inclusive language reflects all sorts of identities.

Elaine:

I’ve had conversations with people before about things like race. It’s wonderful that we’re kind of having a moment where we’re really grappling with that. And I’ve had conversations where people have said, Blind users don’t want to know about race, they want it to be completely neutral. I find that a really interesting argument because I’m like what does neutral actually mean and who are we assuming is neutral?

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

How do those conversations come up when writing description?

Elaine:

When I first started I remember asking questions like should I describe color? Should I describe that this rose is red or that this car is blue or whatever? And then moving from that I guess to should I describe race and the color of somebody’s skin?

So I’ll talk specifically about race rather than diversity I guess because there are other things that we can describe.

The industry standard was to not describe race unless it’s important to the plot.

TR:

By now, if you’ve been following this ongoing conversation on the podcast, you should be pretty familiar with this AD guideline.

As an example of the guideline, Elaine refers to a production of Hamlet

Elaine:

And Hamlet is Black. Then I should mention it. But that doesn’t mean I should mention the race of anybody else. We can assume that everybody else is white. I took that on board and then I kind of ignored it a little bit. (Laughs)

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

(Laughs…)

Elaine:

Because I just found it really difficult. I was like, but why? (Laughs)

I found that I was working on shows where I just wanted to describe like the color of somebody’s skin.

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

Why?

Elaine:

Why!

Because I thought, what’s it mean for it to be relevant to the plot. If there’s a conversation happening between sighted users and they’re saying oh did you notice how the policeman in whatever show it is is Black? I just kind of feel that means that as a Blind user you can’t be part of that conversation because someone’s decided that that Black policeman isn’t relevant to the plot so we’re not going to mention them. Also personally I know Blind users who I’m friend’s with who definitely wanted that information to be included because they’ve definitely felt like there are conversations that they can’t be part of because people are making these decisions.

TR:

Decisions being made on behalf of Blind people without our input. How does that make you feel?

Elaine:

Initially I wasn’t bold enough to say the Black man. I would describe the texture of his hair. So I would say the man with black afro textured hair. (Laughs) I think it should be fairly clear, but I still felt like I was kind of skirting around it.

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

Would you get any pushback?

Elaine:

We definitely didn’t receive any pushback. When my manager kind of reached out to a community of Blind users then it was an overwhelming yes! (Chuckles) Please do include that.

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

Okay. So you never got pushback from management.

Elaine:

No. My immediate manager was like a resounding yes! When I went into the kind of wider Audio Describer community that’s where I definitely felt pushback.

TR:

Like the time Elaine attended a conference where for the first time she heard a discussion of race and Audio Description included in the conversation.

Elaine:

There was a lot of why do we need to do this? What terms do we use? People not feeling comfortable saying the Black man – will the terms change. We might offend somebody, so it’s better if we don’t use any terms at all and just kind of ignore race. It felt uncomfortable for me being the only Black person in the room.

TR:

That’s uncomfort when people are either looking to you for the answer. Or one that I know I’ve experienced, giving the impression that you’re doing something wrong by raising the issue. (Oh well!)

Elaine:

Maybe it’s my British politeness kicking in but I found it very difficult to sit and listen to kind of put in my two pence. Imagine if a user is Black, maybe they do want to know about race (laughs… You never know!

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

Yeh, absolutely

It’s just as important for a Blind consumer who is not Black to know that there are Black people on the screen y’all, like this is real.

Elaine:

Definitely.

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

I’m wondering if there’s an age gap here too. Is this the old guard that we’re talking about here?

Elaine:

I guess so, yes.

I have much respect for them. I feel like I need to put that disclaimer out . (Chuckling)

I really do and I felt like almost a young usurper at that conference and in some of these conversations I’ve had. I get that they’ve been trained in a specific way. If we look at the breakdown of describers in the U.K. it’s white middle age women.

Audio: “To be or not to be. That is the question” From Hamlet, Royal Shakespeare Company

Music ends with beat in reverse!

Rebecca:

I feel like I owe it to the listener and the listener is not necessarily a middle class cisgender white female or a male and sometimes I feel like from some of the teaching and reading and some of the history from what I’ve seen of Audio Description and words, it’s really taking one particular perspective. That is exclusionary and also not fair to people who are Black and Indigenous or people of color.

TR:

In general, no matter what country, fairness, access, equity that should be the goal.

Rebecca, who thinks quite critically on this subject of inclusion presented at a conference in Europe.

Rebecca:

The Advanced Research Seminar on Audio Description.

I, over the last, I would say five years or so, have been really been honing in on the idea of creating the Canadian accent for Audio Description. We here have had a lot of influences from England and also from the states. We haven’t had our own Audio Description culture in Canada. So I went and was the first person to present from Canada and I talked about creating the Canadian accent and describing race gender, class and recognizing our bias.

[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

And how was that received?

Rebecca:

people were very interested. I think that there’s not a practice of using consultants quite as much as we do here in North America and specifically what I do. The other thing that was really well received was the fact that I presented it in a way that did not require any description. I described all of the images. I tried to make the entire experience inclusive to a point where the person who was operating the CART, the real time captioning, didn’t have anything to write. That was all just part of the example of how we can be more inclusive.

TR:

The responsibility of making media inclusive and accessible includes the role of Audio Description.

Rebecca:

Everybody deserves the opportunity to see themselves in a story. We as people who are helping to tell a story have a responsibility to do everything that we can to not exclude people from seeing themselves.

TR:

So what exactly does that responsibility include?

Rebecca:

even as Describers we need to understand what our own bias is. I live in a very progressive city. And I live in a arts bubble inside that city. I try and check myself against that as well. I don’t want to use language that is so open that only a very small amount of people with very specific references will understand.

We need to have more conversations with consultants and also understanding what the history is and what the perspective is of people who are heavy users of Audio Description. We need to talk about it.

TR:

She’s talking about multiple conversations from all perspectives. Some times that just means raising the issue.

Rebecca:

It’s all of those little tiny actions that every person can do just to point out when things could be better perhaps or when things could be more inclusive.

Just being self-reflective about how we’re receiving information. I think many voices is much better as opposed to a government mandate or something like that.

Sometimes words aren’t enough.

TR:

But the words can inspire actions that lead to real change. Like getting film makers and broadcasters to include a bit more space to allow for Audio Description.

Ultimately, the change happens when our thought process becomes more inclusive.

Rebecca:

If the creator of the material no matter what it is, has the Blind and partially sighted community in mind as part of their audience from the beginning.

TR:

Having Blind people in mind translates to our access not being an afterthought. When it comes to Audio Description?, we need to be centered.
[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

So the idea that there are sighted people enjoying Audio Description?, that’s cool, that’s really cool and I get it because hopefully that means there will be more of it, right?

Rebecca:
Yeh!

[TR in conversation with Rebecca:]

Do you see the potential for that to be a problem?

Rebecca:

I’m really in favor of Audio Description guidelines and standards being created for the needs and wants of the Blind and partially sighted community. Anyone who is putting something forward that they call Audio Description is aware of these guidelines and is providing something that is standardized. That said I think it’s also okay to create things that are not necessarily Audio Description?, but use techniques of Audio Description and as long as they’re not called Audio Description. I think more is better and so as long as it’s not called Audio Description when it doesn’t meet the standard, go for it!

TR:

From my understanding, there are conversations happening today exploring these guidelines.
I’m not sure what will end up being decided, but I do know that if these conversations do not include people of color in a real way, including decision makers, then we have to ask the question, why? Is it just fashionable right now to appear as though we’re addressing issues of diversity?

It’s a similar question I asked of all those in the Flipping the Script series;

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

It’s a simple question, so feel free to answer (laughs) because I’m asking it!

Elaine:

(Laughs) I see I have no choice. (Laughs) Okay!

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

(Laughing )No, but answer it anyway you want.

My question is why, why AD?

Elaine:

Oh! That’s a lovely question.

AD has brought me into contact with people that I probably would have never have met. In terms of the Queer drag community that I’m now part of and speaking to Blind users and Blind performers as well. I think that’s enriched my life and I hope that the descriptions I give in turn enrich their experience.

Last year I remember telling someone another sighted person, that I did AD. They just laughed and were like Blind people don’t watch TV. That was just like a whole education let’s just say for that person. (Chuckles)

I think it’s a really, really beautiful service and I think that it’s having a bit of a moment over here where people are certainly from the describer point of view, people are starting to think about how we can change it and engage even further with the community who uses it and that’s really, really exciting to be part of honestly. It’s so so fun! I honestly want to keep on doing this and developing my skills and my confidence and listening to people.

— Music begins – a chill piano leads into a smooth jazz chill Hip Hop beat

Rebecca:

I am a storyteller, I was born that way (chuckles). I think it’s really important to be able to tell your story in a way that everyone can hear it, receive it. I don’t think we have any excuses to ignore that anymore. We have technology to help us out. I want to see the amazing wonderful gifts that actually like Blind and partially sighted creators present having had access to some of this more popular culture. Some kind of performance art. So I think it’s important for everybody to have those opportunities. and I really feel like access to art is as important as access to sport. I think it’s part of what makes us human. And so everybody should have this access.

I just think it’s fair!

TR:

That’s Rebecca Singh, you can call her CEO of SDS or Superior Description Services where she centers Audio Description.
Rebecca:

Also known as described Video here. I do live description, image description, I produce podcasts with the Blind and partially sighted community in mind. Consultation to help with Universal Design. My Twitter handle is @SDSDescriptions.. I’m also on Face Book Superior Description and you can always check me out at SuperiorDescription.com.

TR:

Elaine Lillian Joseph is on Twitter @@elaineLJoseph.

I’d like to thank Elaine for putting up with my attempt to include the London slang in our conversation.

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

Init! (Hysterical laugh)

Elaine:

(Laughs) Oh my days, you really love Top Boy don’t you?

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

I do!

I get in to the whole street shows and all that type of thing so, I’m sorry! it’s Hip Hop I’m going to be in there!

Elaine:

Ah, that makes you (possibly says me) really happy! I love it, I love it!

[TR in conversation with Elaine:]

Yeh! (Laughs)

TR:

Big shout out to Rebecca and Elaine for all they do and for openly sharing their experience and opinions for the improvement of AD for all.

So let me welcome you to the Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Audio: Air horn!

I’m hoping you’ll hear them back on the podcast in the future.

While this is the last official episode of 2020, you know I usually do something for the holiday season. Right now at the time of this recording, I have no idea what that is, but I’m pretty sure I’ll put something together to wrap up this incredibly challenging year.

To be sure you get that episode;
Subscribe wherever you get podcasts!
Transcripts & more are over at ReidMyMind.com. And let me do a bit of Audio Description for you. That’s R to the E I D
(Audio: “D and that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick)

— Music Ends

Like my last name.

Audio: Reid My Mind Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:

Audio: South Bronx, Boogie Down productions

Yo, what’s up Reid My Mind Radio? I’m your host and producer, T. Reid bringing you another episode of what I hope is your favorite podcast. I don’t know if that’s really the case but I’m going to say if you’re a person adjusting to Blindness, adjusting to Low Vision or disability in general this is definitely a podcast with you in mind.

If you’re new hear welcome! Just about every two weeks or so we bring you a profile of a compelling person impacted by disability most often blindness or low vision. Sometimes I bring you a story from my own experience as someone becoming blind as an adult.

Chances are if you’re new here, you’re like wow, this doesn’t sound like we’re about to talk about disability. Well, that’s how we do it here.
Disability doesn’t look one way. It doesn’t act one way. It definitely doesn’t sound one way.
In every episode, we hope to challenge your beliefs around blindness and disability. even if you think you are already quite familiar. Today’s episode is no different.

By the way, you’re listening to a track by Boogie Down Productions called South Bronx! A personal favorite of mine and in my opinion the official unofficial anthem of the borough.

Since we’re all about challenging beliefs…
I can’t tell you how many times throughout my life when I proudly declare my birthplace only to have people either look at me just a little differently or outright say something offensive or judgmental. Showing their familiarity with the borough is probably based on the images of the 1970’s. The burning buildings and the poverty and crime. They don’t see the beauty in the diversity, the culture and the people.

Today, my guest also hails from the BX so it just seemed appropriate. Truth is I’ll take advantage of any opportunity to include Boogie Down Productions in the podcast and let you know where we come from…

Audio: “South Bronx…” from Boogie Down Productions

TR:

BX, let’s go

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Theme

Bri M.

“I want to float above the lane. That’s my state of existence.”

TR:

Meet my guest, Bri M.

Bri M.

I’m a podcaster and I like to be an agitator because I like to interject disability justice in the conversations I have . I’m politically minded about what it means to be a disabled person of color in America today. My podcast is called Power not Pity and it’s about the lives of disabled people of color. I try to preserve and amplify the voices and lived experiences of disabled people of color through the show. We talk about our experiences. We talk about what we’re going through and how we can dismantle ableism with every episode.

## TR

Managing all production aspects of the podcast including interviewing and editing, Bri is also host. That’s the Bronx spirit yawl… it’s how we do!

I’ll try to go easy on the Bronx love but the truth is I try to find that common thread between me and all of my guests. It just so happens Bri and I share several experiences. But it’s the differences which makes the conversation even better.

Beginning our interview, I wanted to be fully sure about all aspects of Bri’s identity as noted in the following bio:

Bio:
Bri M is a Black, Jamaican-American,
queer, non-binary, disabled alien-prince from The Bronx.
Ze’s pronouns are ze/zir.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

…So what does all that mean?

Bri M.
What does all that mean?

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
I know the Jamaican American part (laughs…)

Bri M.

I think all of the other things I say they all intersect into creating the person that I am.

I think what I wanted to express by saying all of the different parts of me is to really display that disabled people are a myriad of things. Especially when we’re racialized in society as Black people as Black disabled people. We face such hardship that white disabled people don’t even understand.

I want to name who I am because I think representation matters.

So I say that I’m a non binary person to because if we don’t go out there and speak about who we are we won’t be known as human beings. I put myself out there as non binary because I want to combat the idea that non binary people are usually seen as white you know the typical image. When you go into a Google image search for something and you search for non-binary what you’ll get in images is usually white people. I want people to make sure that people know that black non-binary people exist. Black disabled non binary people exist.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

No doubt.

Audio: Free Your Mind & Good Thoughts Bad Thoughts by Parliament Funkadelic

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
What’s the Alien Prince because when I hear that I’m like ok is this Alien Prince on some George Clinton …

Bri M.

Yes, yes definitely. I’m very influenced by that. I really do think that as a Black person in society today like this apocalyptic society that we’re living in I really do feel like I’m not from here. I’m not from where we are on this plane of existence. I really do think that Black people are not from here. I’m really on that Sun Ra tip like space is a place you know.

Because I identify as an Alien Prince I want people to know that I’m a part from mainstream society because I can see… I live on the margins of society right, as all of the things I named who I am so I can see how society works because I’m on the outside of it. I want to name that. By saying that I am Alien, I’m strange, I’m Black and apart from mainstream society because that’s just how we have been oppressed and forced into being so I want to highlight that and I also say that I’m a Prince because I think I deserve to be seen as royal and I deserve to be… to accept the part of who I am that wants to be valued.

Because I’m an only child , growing up I was always called a Princess and I used to hate it, I hated it I wanted to be known as a Prince instead because that felt way more true to my identity as a non-binary person. A young binary person and I really didn’t understand what it meant to question my gender identity but as I’m coming into my understanding of who I am especially as a disabled non-binary person I realize that you know I got to celebrate the parts of who I am and celebrating the parts of who I am that means naming myself as a Prince.
[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Ok, I like it! It’s all about being your authentic self. When you have that that’s like a sense of freedom. And when you can show it and just hold your head up nobody can take that down so shout out to you for that!

Bri M.

Thank you, thank you Thomas.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
I’m going to blame it on my screen reader so you correct me… the pronouns… Ze Zer Z …

Bri M.
Ok, so let’s break it down

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Yeh!

Bri M.

So you know she, her, hers, herself right? What I want to do with my pronouns is to say Ze as in she. zer (pronounced zear) as in her, zers (pronounced zears) as in hers and zerself (pronounced zearself) as in herself.

So when people see me they automatically assume that I am a woman because I present in some ways as a woman just for safety reasons.
[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Mm!

Bri M.

In my chosen family people refer to me as Ze Zer because they know those are my pronouns. Those are really important to me because again they highlight the fact that I want to be set apart from society because you know I want to reclaim the fact that I live on the margins. Being known as Ze Zer is also part of feeling like the Alien Prince that I am

TR:

Bri’s identities intersect with so many marginalized groups. And then 5 years ago ze added disability to the mix.

Bri M.

I have Multiple Sclerosis. I wake up in the morning and never know what might happen to my body or how much pain I might be in . I walk with a cane so I’m visibly physically disabled. So my relationship to disability is that it’s very much in the forefront of my mind all of the time . I’m constantly having to engage with unsafe spaces because I don’t feel like I can move in the same way other people can but at the same time coming into my own understanding of disability justice has been really freeing because I’ve come into a whole new community of really accepting wonderful brilliant people. Brilliant disabled people of color, brilliant white disabled people and it just feels really good to know that I’m not alone and that at the same time people consider me to be unique and vital to the different conversations that we’re having around access and around what it means to be an ally.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

What were you doing before you were diagnosed with MS?

Bri M.

Oh wow!

Well I was actually working in the music industry and I don’t know if you know anything about like working in that industry but it’s very much like very able bodies. you have to be on like 110 percent all the time. You have to be there you have to show up you have to make connections with people and often times these were connections I was making with white straight Cisgendered people who didn’t understand who I was as like a Black non-binary person and it was hard but I loved doing the work that I was doing. I remember I was doing grunt work for this one venue called the Music Hall of Williamsburg – it’s pretty famous . It’s been a while for a long time. I was one of those people who would shop for a band and set up the green room and you know if you know anything about that it’s very active work. I was also facilitating a lot of workshops around social justice and racial justice.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Ok, so you were already there doing the justice work That was already a part of who you were.

Bri M.

Yeh! I did quite a bit of that in college. I did a lot of radio. At one point I had three radio shows in college. It was really good for me. Getting through college was really difficult.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

What college and tell me about the radio show?

Bri M.

I actually went to three colleges …

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Same here

Bri M.

I started at Colgate University…and then I transferred because it was so hard to be a Black Queer person up there.. so difficult. People were like actually throwing slurs at me when I would walk around on campus. Honestly the stress of it all of being there… I remember feeling these weird symptoms on the left side of my face like a permanent tick on the left side of my face I remember feeling that and looking back on it now I think that’s when my symptoms of MS started.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Wow!

Bri M.

Then I transferred to the University of San Francisco. I did a lot of thesis work there because there’s a big body modification movement out there. And then it got to be way too expensive Thomas, so I came back to New York and finished my degree in Sociology at the City College of New York. City! What, what!

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

I’m Baruch… throw it up!

You did a radio show where…at all three?

Bri M.

All three but mostly at Colgate.

it was pretty much straight music. I was a bigger metal head when I was in like in my 20’s but I’m still very much a metal head now.

There was one show that I did that was “World Music” I don’t know what that means but a lot of Reggae and another one I did with Metal pretty much all Metal music, Hard rock. My third one was a mash up of Hip Hop, Pop and R&B.

It’s just funny, I’m thinking back on all of the things I’ve done so far before I became disabled and decided to do this podcast , it’s funny how they all link together.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Exactly.

Bri M.

I was already doing radio, I was already interviewing people like yo it just makes sense!

TR:

Looking back allows us to view our experiences as preparation. Individual events that are in no way related come together to make something new.

In Bri’s case, the result is Power Not Pity.

Bri M.

I’d say for like a year in a half I was pretty much bed bound and didn’t leave my apartment very much . Listening to a lot of podcasts. Listening to these voices of white Cis hetero people who just weren’t on my wave length.

I decided I don’t see anything for disabled people of color out here . We exist and we’re fully human beings and we deserve to be heard and seen as human, full unique genuine authentic human beings and I didn’t see that so I was like yo I’m going to make it.

TR:

Bri started by taking a course at BRIC or what was originally an acronym for Brooklyn Information & Culture. In addition to presenting free cultural programming they present and incubate work by artists
and media-makers who reflect the diversity that is Brooklyn New York.

Audio: Where Brooklyn At, Notorious B.I.G

Bri M.

They advocate for doing media studies for the people.

I took an intro to podcasting course there and then from there I just started to edit episodes , started to interview people. I just tried to immerse myself in podcasting and the podcasting world and disability justice that world too. Trying to put the world together along with all of my other identities. I started there and something that really validated me was actually being a part of this cohort that I just finished, this certificate program from Made in New York Media Center. They’re out of the Mayor’s Office of Media and entertainment. So whenever you see a film that’s been made in New York it’s got a little Made in NEw York patch attached to it and whenever you see media that’s been created in New York the Mayor[‘s Office on Media and Entertainment usually is behind that as well.

So this podcast certificate program was like a really big deal for me. When I got accepted I was just so happy about it because I felt like I’m on a different level now and I feel so much more confident in my skills as an editor and as a producer and I just want to keep going.

TR:

That movement is essential.

Like any creative project, it’s going to continue to change over time. In addition to the college radio and interviewing experience, Bri is in some ways ahead of the game.

Not only does Bri have a natural cool relaxed voice that kind of draws you in and makes you comfortable, but there’s also a good understanding of the target audience.

Bri M.

I’m talking to all those people who feel like they have never been seen in mass media in major society. I’m talking to all of those disabled people of color specifically for us by us. I want you to know that I’m here and I’m saying that I see you and that I want your voice to be heard and uplifted because it matters

In highlighting our voice and me saying that I want to uplift disabled people of color it’s like something that doesn’t happen often enough. That’s my audience.

# Compare

TR:

Disability impacts every aspects of society. Some experiences are common across different demographics.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

I know a lot of my audience are basically people experiencing Blindness and vision loss to whatever degree , but I think there are so many similarities …

What are some of the access issues that you experience on a daily?

Bri M.
Mm, mm… Well living in New York City, it’s the most inaccessible city, I think.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

See that’s so funny… that’s from your perspective, but from other people’s perspective it’s like New York is accessible. It always bugs me out…

Bri M.

What? … Are those Able bodies people saying that?

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
If a person is Blind or visually impaired, having that access in a city compared to where I live… I live in the Poconos so I don’t have access to jack! There’s nothing ok! But in the city you know if you don’t have an issue where you need to climb steps , then it’s not going to be a thing for you but most of the train stations aren’t wheel chair accessible or they only have steps It’s such an incredible difference how within the same community people view that differently.

tell me about it from your perspective.

Bri M.

Everybody has different access needs… for me personally the things that are difficult for me have to do with my physical needs right. I don’t want to say I’m the access notes police because I am not trying to align myself with the police but I’m constantly finding myself as a person to say ok where are the access notes where is the information about the accessibility of the building at so and so event.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
What about in terms of interacting with society, because your disability is visual right, meaning people can see that you have a disability you are disabled. That is similar to blindness because they recognize that off the jump. How do people respond to you.

Bri M.

I live in Brooklyn and everybody’s like super rushing around really fast and so they look at me , they perceive me as a young person but they don’t look down and see that I’m using a cane. They just gloss over me and so a lot of people don’t even realize that I use a cane until I’m in their immediate space and so I think I throw a lot of people off just by being . There’s a saying out there in the disability justice world to exist is to resist. I really do feel like when I’m in able bodied spaces like yo I’m the only black physically disabled Queer person non binary person there. I know I already stick out like a sore thumb but the cane makes me stick out even more and people … because I walk slowly to people just pass me by and treat me like an obstacle.

I’m a person too and I’m valid.

I really truly believe that if we had disability justice in our high schools and our middle schools things would be so different. This world would be so much less ablest. This world would be a more just place because people would know like you don’t pass someone with a cane .. don’t pass them on the right side, their cane hand side because that destabilizes them. That’s just a little thing that people don’t even realize you know. The way I move is different from you but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong or it’s bad.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
What about the actual face to face conversation interaction? Are there any differences there?

Bri M.

Well yeh I’ve definitely noticed differences over time. People will say oh well you look good now maybe you don’t need to use that cane anymore. How long are you going to use that cane for… I have people who I live with in my building , my neighbors , you know I say hello because we’re all out here living and struggling to survive so I say hello because I want to say yo I see you and I want you to know I’m your neighbor too but my neighbors will be hella rude and say like yo when are you going to stop using that cane? I get a lot of that and I think it’s because I’m young, I’m about to turn 30 and disabled and people expect me to be on all the time when that’s just not my lif eThomas.For half the time I’m out here living I’m in bed. I’m working from bed so a lot of the conversations I have are just not nuanced. Their very ignorant and I constantly feel like I have to educate people which is so tiring, but I do it anyway because I think it matters so much to me. I want people to know that there are other ways of viewing disabled people of color. There are other ways to regard us besides thinking that we’re something to be pitied. That’s why I name the show Power not Pity.

TR:

While people from different walks of life and different disabilities have common experiences; others can be quite unique.

Bri M.

I decided to create this thing because I wanted d to find more community around me because that’s so desperately what I wanted so

I made the show Power not Pity and decided to focus on disabled people of color because we are the ones who are most marginalized. We deserve to be seen first and heard first because we are the ones who are brutalized by the police. Half of all cases of police brutality are enacted on black disabled people.
Audio: Multiple news clips about police brutality cases against Black people with disabilities. ends with the actual recording of police realizing a driver was Deaf after they pulled him out of the car…

Bri M.

It’s not a game. It’s not something to just be swept under the table. We need to talk about this, get conversations going around why black disabled people are dying out here and nobody’s talking about it.

TR:

Well Power Not Pity is now a space for such conversations and more.

Bri M.

I love storytelling. I love listening to stories. From a very early age I was a book worm. I always enjoy the art of getting to know someone through an interview and I think one thing that I really do love about podcasting is it still feels very much like DIY. A lot of people say that right now is the wild , wild west of media and content creation because there’s a lot of possibility in podcasting.

I think people are starting to realize that there are voices out there that are underrepresented that need to be heard, that need to be expressed fully because podcasting is so homogenous, so white so Cisgendered , so hetero and so male oriented. I counter act that just by being there. I counteract the idea that podcasting is only this one way. Podcasting is a myriad of things. If you have a mic and you have the desire then you got it you can go. It’s one of the more accessible ways of reaching people and connecting on a deeper level.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
I look at the podcast hing and anything, life is about finding your lane. Finding that lane where you fit in and kind of riding there and if you want to venture out go into another lane ok, you can do that but you always got somewhere to come back to where you got your people and all that . So what do you think is your podcast lane?

Bri M.

Mm my podcast lane! You know what being a non binary person I just feel like I don’t want to be in any lane . I want to float above the lane because that’s how I feel is my state of existence is just floating behind everything because I want to be able to see how things are constructed.
Everything we do in life, it’s all made up it’s all built upon all of these different made up notions of being. That’s the way society works . Ok so maybe I’m trying to drop some truth on you right now…

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Drop it, drop it!

Bri M.

None of it is real.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Explain that

Bri M.

For example, the idea that you as a person, body hair is something that’s really interesting about society and how things are made up because like say you have short hair. I’ve been mistaken for men in the past because my hair is short. You know it’s like why do we assign short hair to maleness and why do we assign longer hair to femaleness because it’s just hair. At the end of the day … laughs…
Other societies don’t function in that way. That’s what I mean when I say it’s all made up right. We create these systems that are now enacting violence and oppression us. One thing I want to do with the podcast is highlight that. Highlight the fact that we are in a serious time right now. We are in some serious dire straits and things need to change and part of that change is putting yourself out there and saying hey no you’re not going to silence me I know that these systems are here to silence me and to put me into institutions of oppression and I just want to make it more known for people understand and come away with the idea that yo things can change and I can do something to change this just by rearranging my actions and rearranging my thoughts around what disability looks like and what it means or feels like.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
No doubt, droppin’ it! I already know what the title of this episode is because it’s hot… “Floating Above the Lanes with Bry! That’s so hot! Laughs…

Bri M.

Laughs… Yes! I love it!

TR:

Floating, but not aimlessly.

Power Not Pity is about representation.

Bri M.
The ways we move in society , the ways we adapt to things like the different ways we connect to each other that we try to cultivate access with each other is revolutionary because society tells us that no it’s about you. You have to be the one to pull yourself up by your boot straps . It’s all about the individual and the ways that the individual can overcome their hardship…and rise up as assimilated person in society. When it’s really not that way. Realistically no one can live that way . I think disabled people of color know that we don’t do it alone we move together. We are all valid.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]

What do you like to do when you’re not fighting ableism?

Bri M.

Oh my gosh! When am I not fighting ableism?

Honestly, part of the editing process is sometimes how I unwind actually. That helps me feel less stressed to. When I get into that mode , that editing mode . I don’t know if that makes me like a really big podcasting nerd?

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Oh absolutely!

TR:

And podcast nerds is where it’s at baby!

Big shout out to Bri M!

And I know what you’re asking yourself right now…

Where can we find Power Not Pity…

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
And where can we find Bri M?

Bri M.
Laughing…

Ok, well you can find Power Not Pity everywhere you find social media. I’m on Facebook at Power Not Pity, I’m on Twitter and Instagram @PowerNotPity.

You can go to my website PowerNotPity.com. All the episodes are there, the transcripts are there. I’m on Linked In if you want to look me up professionally.

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Thank you so much Bri, that was really really dope!

Bri M.

You’re welcome. Thank you Thomas this was great!

[TR in conversation with Bri M.:]
Cool I appreciate it!

Audio: Uptown

# Close

TR:

I hope you too appreciate this conversation.

how you lived your life prior to disability will impact how you live your life after disability. If you were motivated and driven, open to new experiences then chances are you’ll continue that way. If you were closed minded and stuck in your ways well you’ll probably be the same way with a disability.

Becoming disabled as an adult can impact a person’s career path. It doesn’t have to. But it’s also an opportunity to take reassess and make use of other skills and interests.

If you’re fortunate, the result could be at the least a new career and at most a mission.

Now, if you choose to accept, I have a mission for you.

Subscribe!
Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, Tune In Radio or wherever you get podcasts.

You can always send me feedback or recommend a guest or topic all you have to do is hollaback!

We have the comments section on the blog, ReidMyMind.com.
The email; ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com
The Reid My Mind Radio Feedback Line where you can leave a voice mail: 1 570-798-7343

I would really love voice messages that I can share on the podcast. If you don’t want to call, you can grab your smart phone and record a voice memo and email the finished recording to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I’d love to hear and share the voices of those who are listening. If you want to send a message but don’t want it shared just say so and it’s all good.

I appreciate you listening and if you liked what you heard please rate and even review the show via Apple Podcast. And please, tell a friend to listen. Spread the love, man!

You can always visit www.ReidMyMind.com, that’s R to the E I D like my last name!

TR:

And in case I forgot to mention where I’m from…

Uptown baby, for the crown baby, we get down baby!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

TR:

What’s good Reid My Mind Radio Family.

back with another episode and this one right here is a goodie! Before we drop that intro music and make this episode official, I want to take the time to welcome any new listeners. Come on in and make yourself comfortable. Mi podcast es su podcast!

If you are new here and I haven’t scared you away yet,, my name is T.Reid producer and host of this here series of audio files transmitted over the interwebs right to your earholes! And since we’re about that accessibility here, we send it via transcript to your Braille embosser, oh and your eyeballs too.

Specifically, I’m talking about stories and profiles of compelling people often impacted by some degree of blindness, low vision or disability. Every now and then I share my own experiences of adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult.

I’m excited about this episode and you should be too.

We have a true well respected superstar disability activist who joined me virtually on the Reid Compound, that’s home of the RMM Laboratory, where you can find me with my audio microscopes, beakers and chemicals mixing up some new concoction.

Honestly, you’d enjoy this one uncut and raw. It’s her work and output that make her dope.

But I’m in the lab, therefore I have to add a drop of this and that because it’s what I do. It’s my way to be sure it gets through the veins a bit faster and right to that brain. This one hopefully will also touch your soul.

Let’s get it!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Theme Music

AW:

Hi, my name is Alice Wong. I’m the founder and Director of the Disability Visibility Project. I’m a Disabled person living in San Francisco, California.

TR:

If you’re on Twitter and especially tapped into the #Disability neighborhood, you heard of Alice Wong, @SFDirewolf.

Founder and Director of the Disability Visibility project which means she’s tapped into much of the latest disability related information as it relates to politics, justice and culture. She’s all about amplifying the voices of people of color with disabilities. We’ll get into all that but first I wanted to get to know her a bit more.

AW:

My parents immigrated to the United States in the 1970’s. I was their first kid in America in a new land.

Shortly after they had me my mom noticed other babies my age were crawling. She noticed that I wasn’t crawling the way other kids were.

I was diagnosed with a neuro muscular disability similar to Spinal Muscular Atrophy.

I guess I would also say that because my disability is progressive meaning that my body has changed a lot during my life. I used to walk. Then I used a walker then a wheelchair. And for people who are listening my voice sounds a little funny because I’m wearing a mask over my nose and it’s attached to a ventilator and that’s to get me support when I breathe.

I think this idea of adaptation and constantly trying to adjust and make the most of what I have I think that’s the relationship I have with disability.

TR:
If you’re familiar with Reid My Mind Radio then you should know how I feel about adaptations. In my opinion, it’s just one of the ways that I think non-disabled people could learn from people with disabilities.

It’s the mistake I think the able bodied world makes every day in overlooking a community of problem solvers and creative thinkers.

AW:

Disability isn’t static.

Whether you acquire it during your life or whether you have a chronic illness progressive disability like mine, all of us are evolving, we’re changing and society is changing. We’re entering and exiting different environments . How our disability interacts with those environments, with attitudes with institutions that’s always going to be a variable.

I think that’s kind of exciting in a sense, that we’re constantly learning. It’s not a very simplistic linear experience. For example, blind not blind, disabled not disabled. It’s a lot more complicated
than that.

TR:

Complicated indeed. Just ask someone with Low Vision.

To the casual onlooker, they appear (awh dang, I’m going to say it!) normal). So when they put their face close to an item on a shelf or pull out their handy dandy magnifier they’re faced with the questions. Or they struggle to ask for assistance. Of course there are those with the unseen disabilities who experience similar struggles.
Complicated from both internal and external effect of ableism.

Managing her own disability proved to be an early lesson to Alice’s activism later in life.

AW:

Sometimes it starts with being able to speak for yourself and fight for what you need. That was kind of my experience in junior high and then High School.

Getting angry at things that were happening to me to realize that I had to push back, I had to speak up and fight for myself.

I didn’t think of that as activism. As I got more connected with the disability community in my 20’s. I moved out of Indiana where I grew up to San Francisco and I really found people and culture that really welcomed me. That really opened my mind to like the variety of the disability community and learning more about the history of disability rights and activism. That’s when I really started to realize that being an advocate for yourself is all well and good, but it’s really about changing the system. It’s only through changing systems and cultures that you really make an impact. I definitely feel I’ve been an accidental activist.

TR:

Well what exactly is an activist anyway?

According to Merriem Webster:
a person who uses or supports strong actions in support of or opposition to one side of a controversial issue

The example used is that of a public protest. But who gets to say one version of activism is superior.

AW:

There are people who definitely look at online activism, social media as second rate, not as real that you’re not as hard because your bodies are not on the line.

Audio: Multiple news clips of disability rights protesters over sounds of protesters chanting.

AW:

There’s that very narrow idea of what it means to be an activist.

AW:

I really do take to social media a lot I do realize my own usage is a real privilege.

There are people for various reasons who find social media incredibly inaccessible and overwhelming and I totally get that.

I have privilege in terms of not really having a lot of access barriers the way some people do depending on what platform you’re using. I have access to a laptop and an internet service. All of these things cost money and there’s a certain amount of skills. So those are my privileges that I readily acknowledge.

TR:

Get in where you fit in!

There’s room for all types of activism.

AW:

There are some people who lets say they’re not able to leave their beds and they are just as bad ass organizers and activist than somebody who goes and locks themselves at a sit-in. But I think there’s all kinds of methods and each one of them are valuable.

TR:

Valuable, like the work taking place at the Disability Visibility Project.

Before DVP was known as an online community dedicated to creating, sharing and amplifying disability media culture, it was a means to collect and archive oral histories of people with disabilities.

AW:

It was 2014 and this is the year before the 25th anniversary of the American’s with Disabilities Act in July 2015. I remember around this time all sorts of people, all sorts of disability organizations they were all kind of gearing up for this big event. It was a major milestone.

Back then I didn’t work for any nonprofits, I wasn’t part of a group or anything and I really thought what could I do as an individual. How can I contribute to this? I went to a Story Corps event in San Francisco and they talked about community partnerships that they have in the San Francisco area

##TR

Story Corps’ mission is to preserve and share humanity’s stories in order to build connections between people and create a more just and compassionate world.

They began collecting stories in 2003 at a story booth in Grand Central Terminal in New York City.

After hearing about the various partnerships in San Francisco, Alice went right up to them and was like:

AW:

“Oh do you have any with the Disability community and they said no we don’t”. I thought ok this could be my little way of doing something.

##TR
Little way? Maybe in the beginning but check out the progression.

AW:

I spoke to them about the possibility of forming a partnership with them.

So originally the DVP was going to be a one year campaign to encourage people with disabilities to tell their stories.

Not only are our stories not told they’re not considered as part of the larger American story. You have Civil rights, all the different movements, people with disabilities have been part of those movements.

We’ve also been part of our own movements. That to me is what really motivated me because we all know about Helen Keller and FDR. What about the history of now. What are everyday people doing? What are their lives about? What do they care about. I think that’s what a lot of us don’t realize is that every day we’re making history and the idea of recording a few oral histories and having them archived at the Library of Congress because that’s what Story Corps does, this to me was really exciting because it’s really a gift for future generations.

TR:

By the end of 2018, about 140 oral histories have been recorded as part of the DVP archives.

There was a natural progression from gathering oral histories that lead to other outlets including a blog and podcast.

AW:

I love talking to people. I guess I’m just really curious. I’m always interested in what other people are doing.

the idea of podcasting is like a radio show that’s topical, that’s current that’s really exciting. I was thinking about doing one a few years ago but it seemed really daunting. I wasn’t sure what’s involved, how much will it cost and just whether I would be able to figure it out.

TR:

Well she definitely did that.

She offers some good steps that I wish I thought more about early on.

AW:

Planning, budgeting. I really took my time to have a clear idea of what the podcast would be.

TR:

Since 2017, consistently podcasting publishing episodes every two weeks, The Disability Visibility Podcast is a great resource for conversations about politics, culture and media from a disabled lens.

AW:

Each episode is roughly 30 minutes. It’s divided into 15 minute segments or maybe just a longer extended conversation. I’ve also had episodes where I’ve had a group conversation with two interviewees. Those are fun too. Basically conversations by disabled people about a whole range of topics.

[TR in conversation with AW:]
And it’s cross disability, correct?

AW:

I’m also very open about what I don’t know and my own kind of implicit biases. I want this to be an opportunity to highlight and really just give space to all kinds of disabled people. And also just to not have me dominate or drive the conversation but to really have them being the ones who drive the conversation.

[TR in conversation with AW:]
I think that’s something that you and I share, that curiosity about things.

I don’t know a lot about a whole lot, (laughs) but I know I want to know and the idea of being able to talk to people and just do that and present it in a way. That’s just really cool.
AW:

Yeh! We think of the guests as the experts. I think of the guest as the expert. I want them to shine. My role is to pick the subject and really do the prep work and hopefully ask good questions. That’s what really gives me joy. When I’m in conversation with somebody and you feel the energy when two or three people are in a room and we’re kind of like Jazz, just riffing , improvising and just vibing off one another. That’s what’s so exciting about disability culture it is a shared experience. Whether we are exactly the same or not, but very often just the lived experience. Sometimes there’s a lot of common themes and when we see that reflected upon one another no matter how different we are it just makes us feel more empowered I think.

[TR in conversation with AW:]
Absolutely!

There’s so many different topics and you’re broadening the scope of disability for many people, including myself. I was happy to see you had just recently, the B-HEARD Project and Talia Lewis talking about the prison industrial complex and how that affects people with disabilities. That was a really good episode.

AW:

Yeh, that was kind of a part two of another episode I did earlier, the year before on police violence because I believe they go hand in hand.

There’s the school to prison pipeline which we all know disproportionately impacts Black and Brown kids, but also Black and Brown disabled kids in particular.

There’s mass incarceration, the whole prison industrial complex and the way it really does capture so many people with disabilities. And then there’s the other aspect too. In terms of the everyday violence that happens to people with disabilities but at the hands of law enforcement. There’s a lot of layers I feel like these are issues that sometimes we within the community don’t talk about. We really need to continue flushing that out in as many ways as possible. And to make it as personal as possible so that people can really get a sense , a visual sense of the cost at the heart and the impact.

TR:

In 2018, Alice expanded that storytelling to include the self-published Resistance and Hope anthology.

AW:

the truth during the 2016 presidential election I think I panicked, I freaked out like a lot of people when we realized Trump is our president.

Audio: Clips of 45th POTUS (TR does not say that name.) on disabilities. Includes comments on Paralympics “hard to watch”, comment on Senator McCain being captured and mocking disabled reporter.

Audio: Prophets of Rage, Public Enemy

AW:

I thought to myself ok, what can I do.

We’re going to be entering some really dangerous times under this administration and we know, marginalized folks always knew what the consequences of this president.

What are some of the wisdom and the knowledge and expertise by disabled people who have always been resisting.
This didn’t just happen two years ago.

Audio:
“46,000 year old skeleton of a Neanderthal man, who had significant Cerebral Palsy. Other Skeletons have been found with missing limbs”

AW:

Disabled people have been surviving and thriving and resisting for centuries. Since time began.

Audio: Multiple clips on disability history:
* Aristotle has been said to have been an advocate for Eugenics and the killing of disabled children… let there be a law that no disabled child shall live”
* “Romans mutilated deformed people and just through them into the Tiber River”
* :”Just this past century we had Eugenics and freak shows… that planned to eliminate or denigrate such individuals respectively. Mental disabilities and Dwarfism in Medieval Europe were considered the produce of possession and sin and were often treated as such. With their only opportunities to survive in society as court jesters and fools.”

AW:

The idea for this anthology was really a chance to ask people that I personally admire, that I learn a lot from . people like TL Lewis, Leroy Moore, like Vilissa Thompson, like so many people

It’s an E-Book featuring 16 essays by 17 disabled people.

[
I would say that pretty much
]
All but one person is a disabled person of color. So that to me was also a really intentional thing that I really wanted to center to the voice of disabled people of color.
I really think that there aren’t enough representation and enough attention paid to disabled people of color.

[TR in conversation with AW:]
Why is that important to you. What does that lend to the overall disability movement.

AW:

While I’m thankful for the people who were part of the first, male movement, the independent living movement in the 60’s and 70’s but it was a predominantly white experience. These folks became leaders, formed organizations. They’re the ones that are often noted in history. They’re the ones who are seen as Icons.
I know this in my bones that there were disabled people of color and other marginalized folks that were not given their due. I think that has always been part of the problem of who gets to tell the stories?

It’s always about power. It’s about privilege. As somebody who is proud to be Asian American disabled woman I’m cognizant of the sexism, racism that’s a part of our community. I think that’s something we don’t talk about enough. That we have to like step out be as we have to always hide those parts of our experiences in order to get along. It’s prettier to homogenize our experience and we’re so different, we’re so diverse. Those who enjoyed some privilege in terms of representing our community have really missed out in terms of what we could all learn from each other. I always kind of known that my own experience was very much situated within my culture, where I’m located in terms of growing up in the Mid-West. being a product of immigration. I’m going to see various issues very different from others. I think there’s so much in terms of living with all of these different intersections that give really valuable perspectives. Let’s face it those that set the agenda aren’t really the ones who are the most kind of at the margins. So their idea of what disability rights is may not be what disability rights is for somebody else. So that to me is why I’m very intentionally try to widen the center. Rather it just be white, physically disabled experience.

# Community

TR:

That’s the other aspect of the Divisibility Visibility Project, building community.

AW:

I grew up disabled in the 70’s and 80’s pre internet. It was a pretty lonely experience. I didn’t feel comfortable or confident until much later. I think not only because I didn’t have people like me whether in person or online but I also never saw myself reflected in the media. So that’s another huge reason why right now this time we’re living in is kind of amazing because people are using online tools like Twitter YouTube, Tumbler. We are all creating our own content.

I think it’s a really exciting time to be alive in 2019.

TR:

Through the use of online tools like Twitter and their hashtags DVP coordinates and hosts regular Twitter chats. These are conversations in the form of structured Q&A’s where the community is asked to answer questions on a specified subject.

The beauty of these online public discussions is that others can easily be brought into the conversation or discover them. Plus their archived.

Information about past & future chats are published on the VVP website and shared via the Twitter account @DisVisibility

As far as the future for DVP is concerned,

AW:

The Affordable Care Act, Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, housing , transportation, education. Almost every one of these areas there have been a real attempt at going backwards in terms of advancements for civil rights and disability rights.

Overall I think it’s been a war against the poor, immigrants, people of color, against the LGBT community and against women – you know reproductive rights.

There’s a lot to look out for.
[TR in conversation with AW:]
This is probably one of the hardest questions Alice. With 45’s (Note – TR does not say that Trump name) and all that, what do you see in the future that’s hopeful?

AW:

Delay – ooh!

[TR in conversation with AW:]

Laughing . Unfortunately that’s a hard question, right? More laughs.

AW:

Yeh!

You know I do find, it is really hopeful to see so many people engaged and politicized in ways they may not have been before. That to me gives me hope that people realize oh shit, we all are in this together.

My friends, my neighbors, they are all going to be hurt. It’s up to all of us to speak against hate, bigotry, and to call it out.

That to me is hopeful to see people not give a fuck anymore. Put aside this whole idea of respectability politics. Oh we gotta be civil, we gotta be polite, we gotta work within the system. Well you know what, sometimes you can’t do that. Sometimes the situation calls for direct action, it calls for people to be angry and to really show that anger. There’s some hope in that. People are hopefully coming to terms with our relationship to what kind of world do we want to live in. What kind of leadership do we want and deserve. Last fall the wave of women and people of color elected for the first time. That’s kind of exciting. People are galvanized. People want to do something. There’s a lot of potential with that.

Audio: “Well you’re quite hostile!” from “Prophets of Rage” Public Enemy

[TR in conversation with AW:]
What is that you like to do when you’re not fighting Ableism Alice?

AW:

Oh so many things Thomas.

I love coffee, I love good desserts with coffee, I love going to bakeries cafe’s, I have a love affair with fried chicken and French fries, I love really really good southern food but also just watching TV, watching cat videos, Netflix. We all need to find things that give us joy. Talking to my friends, being lazy, love to sleep in lay around. Those are things that keep me going.

##TR

Lazy? Do not get it twisted. Let’s take a look at what Alice and DVP turned out in 2018.

Hit me!
Audio: I Go to Work” Kool Moe Dee

I’m going to need the right vibe for this one.

She’s written article for multiple publications on topics including;

the California wildfires
plastic straw bans and accessibility
an essay on the visibility of Senator Tammy Duckworth as a disabled mother of color
HR 620 and disability rights
representation of disabled people in entertainment
for Teen Vogue.

– Published 5 oral histories of some movers and shakers in the disability community in partnership with Story Corps. 

Lots of blog posts including guests posts, Q&A’s

Produced and hosted 26 episodes of the
Disability Visibility podcast
with her team:
co-audio producers Cheryl Green, Geraldine Ah-Sue, and Sarika Mehta.

Multiple media appearances including:
United Shades of America with W. Kamau Bell
on CNN
– Featured in the
Bitch 50,
(I didn’t name it!)

a list recognizing the most impactful creators, artists, and activists in pop culture influential feminists by Bitch Media and
Colorline’s 20 X 20,

Multiple presentations and talks:
the 2018 Longmore lecture at the
Paul K. Longmore Institute on Disability
– Co-presented a workshop on reproductive justice and disabled people

Co- hosted a couple dozen Twitter Chats
for DVP and several other organizations and groups.

Don’t forget she Published and edited
Resistance and Hope: Essays by Disabled People
available on Amazon
and free in multiple formats

To find out more about that and how you can share your disability story and have it archived with Story Corps visit the DVP at DisabilityVisibilityProject.com
Follow them on Twitter @DisVisibility
And definitely make sure you follow Alice if you want to be in the know about disability issues and culture at SFDirewolf.

All these links will be on this episodes show page at ReidMyMind.com.

[TR in conversation with AW:]
Alice Wong yawl!

Salute to you Alice. I think you do some wonderful things and I know I’m learning from you. So I appreciate you.

AW:

Well I am learning from you. And I’m so happy that, again it’s through Twitter that brought us together.

[TR in conversation with AW:]
Yeh!

AW:

That’s what’s really awesome We may have never come across each other in real life but thanks to the internet I could call you a friend.

[TR in conversation with AW:]

Absolutely, absolutely! I truly appreciate that. I truly appreciate you and the fact that you just called me a friend I’m very happy about that! Because I hope to continue this. I honestly do learn a lot and I appreciate that because this is part of my growth and you know finding where I fit in with disability and how this all works and I appreciate it.

AW:

Me too you know It’s all part of the journey, and you’re part of it.

TR:

Tell me who wouldn’t want to be on a journey with cool people, bad asses getting things done and doing it from a good place. I guess could be summed up by a hashtag from another project of Alice and two other disability champions Mia Mingus and Sandy Ho.
#AccessIsLove.

Audio: Music… “It Just Makes Me Happy”, DJ Quad (No Copyright Music)

One thing disability has taught me that applies to just about everything; there’s no normal. There’s the way we’ve been used to doing something and if anybody tells you it’s easy to just change that, they haven’t been through anything.

But we can adapt. We can find a new way and sometimes that new way, even though it’s not the one you would choose, it may be the one you needed and may prove to bring you where you’re supposed to be.

A few things I want to highlight before we get out of here.

No one gave Alice permission to start Disability Visibility Project. She didn’t need a board of directors, she didn’t need a large organization behind her. She made the decision to make it happen.

We can all do that. And if you have to change it up cool!
If you don’t enjoy it that’s cool too. Just start it if you’re thinking about it.

psst… I’m talking to you!

Like if you’re thinking about subscribing to this here podcast, I suggest you follow through with that feeling!

Subscribe!
Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, Tune In Radio or wherever you get podcasts.

You can always send me feedback or recommend a guest or topic all you have to do is hollaback!

We have the comments section on the blog, ReidMyMind.com.
The email; ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com
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I would really love voice messages that I can share on the podcast. If you don’t want to call, you can grab your smart phone and record a voice memo and email the finished recording to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I’d love to hear and share the voices of those who are listening. If you want to send a message but don’t want it shared just say so and it’s all good.

I appreciate you listening and if you liked what you heard please rate and even review the show via Apple Podcast. And please, tell a friend to listen. Spread the love, man!

You can always visit www.ReidMyMind.com, that’s R to the E I D like my last name!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

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