Reid My Mind

TR:

Greetings everyone, from at least 6 feet away!

First and foremost, I hope everyone is doing well, and you each are as comfortable as possible. Most importantly staying safe and keeping each other safe by following the recommended protocol.

for right now, I’m going to keep my Corona Virus thoughts and observations to simply wishing you all the best. And reminding you all to protect yourselves physically but also pay close attention to your mental health.

By the way, my name is Thomas Reid host and producer of this podcast where we bring you compelling people impacted by all degrees of blindness and disability. Occasionally, I share my own experiences as a man adjusting to becoming Blind as an adult. All of this by the way has been brought to you since 2014 from the safe and sanitized studio located in my home. So really, ain’t nothing new here folks! We’ve been riding ahead of this curve for a minute!
Now, only one way to start this episode…

Audio: Water flowing from sink…

TR sings…

“Wash your hands, Wash your hands, Everybody wash your hands.
Wash your hands, Wash your hands, Everybody wash your hands.”

Audio: Reid My Mind Theme Music

MS:
I’m Matthew Shifrin and I’m a Blind Musician and Inventor.

TR:

You may be familiar with Matthew. He’s received a fair amount of press in regards to his work with Lego. Specifically, his work making Lego instructions accessible to Blind children.

It all began when he himself as a five or six year old child followed a very specific instruction given to him by his close family friend.

MS:

Lilya who later created the text based instructions, she and I were driving back from somewhere , she stops the car and yells “Get out.” Ok, I get out. She says pick up this crate. This crate is like half my body weight. And so we manage to muscle this crate into the trunk of her car and she’s like, “C’mon open it.” I open it and this crate is full to the brim with Lego bricks.
And that’s really how my journey with Lego started.

TR:

Matthew began building Lego sets with the help of his parents.

MS:
Because they could read the instructions and I couldn’t.

TR:

Lego instructions are visual. They’re diagrams detailing how to connect the various pieces completing the design.

MS:

We were mainly building bionicals. , which were these action figures that Lego made. They were very formulaic. If I built one of them, then I could build the rest of a certain type on my own. Those were the only types of sets I could build on my own.

TR:

Building the sets required the help of Matthew’s parents.

MS:

So they’d just say okay you need to find such and such piece. I’d go scrounging around the bottom of the box to try and find something and then they’d say okay well here’s where you put it and I’d put it there and we’d go piece by piece. It would just take 4 to 5 hours to build a $20 set that was 200, 300 pieces.

TR:

While appreciative of his parent’s dedication and time, Matthew recognized the difference between his Lego experience and that of his friends.

MS:

They were building sets all the time. They’d come into school and say hey I built a spaceship yesterday and I’d say oh that’s so great. How did you do it? Then there’d be silence and they’d be like well, I looked at the instructions and they told me what to do and I just followed them. I just remember thinking all this time I wish I could do that.

TR:

In case you’re thinking Lego is just a toy.

MS:

When we look at Lego instructions they really provide a lot of insight into how things are made. How things are built. How mechanisms work.

And when I built on my own I really had none of that vocabulary.

TR:

This was evident from the experience his sighted friends had with Lego.

MS

they could build trains that ran, crossbows that shot actual darts because they were familiar with the engineering concepts that made these devices work.

TR:

Working with his parents gave Matthew[emphasis on some] some insight…

MS:

But as the Blind builder I was just following directions. I had no idea where we were going. yes, I knew it was some sort of frame that we were building but I had no idea what it would end up looking like. As opposed to the parents who did. There wasn’t a lot of vocabulary gained even then because I couldn’t see the instructions on my own I couldn’t flip ahead. I couldn’t imagine structures in my head because I had no vocabulary

TR:

Remember Lilya, the family friend who had Matthew lug that first box of Lego bricks into the car? On his 13th birthday, she brought him the next step in his access.

MS:

She gives me this big cardboard box with a big fat binder. And mind you this binder is thick, we’re talking two copies of the yellow Pages thick. In this binder there are these instructions that she’s hand Brailed on a Perkins Braille typewriter. And in the box is this Middle Eastern Lego Palace. This palace was big, 830 – 840 pieces. these instructions she created completely on her own. She invented her own vocabulary to name every type of Lego piece that was in that set.

TR:

That was the vocabulary Matthew longed for.

MS:

Put a flat 6 by 1vertically on the table. Put a flat 2 by 1 on its rear most button over hanging to the right horizontally. Put a flat 4 by 1 vertically to the front.

I got to a point where I was able to read instructions and imagine what it would be like to build a certain model or a certain sub section. That’s just spatial awareness, spatial reasoning, these sighted skills that are developed over many years in sighted children. The fact that I was able to really visualize on my own was a very valuable skill and I would argue an under taught skill when it comes to Blind children.

TR:

Getting access to Lego instructions was just a part of Lilya’s goal.

MS:

Her goal was that I should have the same experiences as other sighted children. And so she brailed board games, she brailed books. She did all of tshe did all of this stuff, but Lego was just the one thing g that she could not figure out how to make accessible for many many years just because the instructions were pictures.

TR:

Once Matthew gained access.

MS:

I just wanted people to have this resource because I’d benefited so much from it. Not all Blind kids have people that could write instructions for them. Everyone deserves to be able to build and to learn from what they’ve build.

TR:

making this information available to other Blind children required some steps.

MS:

We had to create more instructions, build more develop some sort of language. Make sure that this was durable and then we had to get it out to Blind people. I think Lego themselves were always an end goal but Blind people had to come first because we had to be sure that Blind people could engage in this content as much as I could.

TR:

Realizing the instructions could be produced digitally, eventually led to the website.

MS:

LegoForTheBlind.com where all our instructions live. there’s 30, 40 sets there.

Our end goal was always getting it to a larger entity.

[TR in conversation with MS:]

Would you consider yourself an advocate?

MS

Sure. Advocacy is like a blob, you can shape it mold it. One might argue that lilya making those instructions was advocacy. After she made those instructions and we had that website, I’d always wanted to get it through to Lego but I really didn’t know how to go about it. To infiltrate such a massive company you need to know people.

TR:

His first attempt, contacting Lego customer service didn’t yield any results. But sometimes, all you need is to know someone, who knows someone…
MS:

I was interning at the MIT Media Lab. I had a friend who worked there adn there’s a group there called the Lifelong learning Kindergarten Group and they have a very long and fruitful collaboration with Lego themselves. So I went to this friend of mine and said hey I have this project and I told him about the project and he said yeh, I have a friend who just moved to Denmark two weeks ago and he’s working with Lego. I’ll send your story along to him. We’ll see where that gets you. This friend of his emailed back and he said oh yes this is a very interesting story I’ll send it to the head of the new projects division which is like Lego’s version of DARPA, all their secret mysterious projects that no one really knows about until they get released. Then when I got in touch with this guy Olaf Gyllenstenthat was really a pivotal moment

because this guy was in on it. He wanted this to happen as much as I did.

TR:

That’s known as an internal ally. Someone in the organization to help advance your cause.

MS:

Mind you this guy had no connection with Blind people. He had just never thought about Blind children as a possible segment of people who could enjoy Lego and their instructional aspect just as much as sighted children. Just because he never met Blind children. When he realized this impact that this could make on Blind children, he bulldozed his way forward through the ranks of the company. He talked to the head of Lego Niels B. Christiansen who runs the company now and Christiansen was very enthusiastic and when your project goes that high up , it’s going to go somewhere.

TR:

And it did. Lego decided to produce the instructions.

MS:

The Lego Foundation, they’re kind of their charitable we have cool projects arm. They were showing off these instructions and they wrote me an email and said we have a press conference we want you to present. Could you come and we also want to introduce you to all of the people that have been doing this. Could you spend six days in Denmark. (Laughing…) I was like well, I guess I can. It was a conference of Lego fans. They are very committed. They have blogs and websites, YouTube channels. We’re showing the kind of text based instructions and comparing them to the graphical ones and just kind of talking about the thrill of being able to build on your own. Just the response form these people was amazing. They and I are just united by a love of Lego. It was amazing to see how touched these people were by these instructions and by the spreading of this medium to people who previously could not engaged with this medium as your average sighted person could. That was just a really energizing moment.

[TR in conversation with MS:]

Are you still working with the company?

MS

Very much. I do quality assurance. Checking instructions and making them as understandable as possible. We’re hoping to have 25 to 30 accessible instructions out in the next couple of months for sets that are currently out.

TR:

Users will be able to purchase a Lego set from their favorite retailer and download the instructions from the Lego website, LegoAudioInstructions.com.

MS:

Hopefully they’re also going to redesign their packaging so that they can Braille the numbered bags. I don’t know how long that’s going to take but that’s just something they’ve been looking into and hopefully that would happen.

[TR in conversation with MS:]
Wow!

TR:

I really shouldn’t have such a reaction in 2020. Unfortunately, the response from Lego, isn’t the norm. Even companies who make they’re product accessible, packaging, well that’s another story.

MS:

When Lilya and I were making these instructions on our own we really wanted Blind children to have the complete experience of building the set. So we would describe the box art and the advertising from the back of the manual and the art and the little prints on the Lego people because we really wanted the Blind child to engage with the set as much as the sighted child could. And it’s wonderful to see that carry over to Lego’s instructions. They describe the little Lego people and they describe this and that . They really tend to energize the experience. They really guide you through the building process and they complement you once you finish something they’re like congratulations you finished the car. An adult might kind of get annoyed by that but for children this is what they need when they’re fist getting into Lego. It’s really important for them to feel really included in the process and engaged by the process not just I’m stacking pieces but hey I built a thing. Now I can revel in this thing and then can move on to the next part of the build the fact that Lego are really making their instructions so human, I’m very glad that they’re doing that.

[TR in conversation with MS:]

It’s funny because you said adults can get annoyed… I don’t know, I guess because I’m coming from a particular perspective…

TR:

I wasn’t a Blind child. I don’t even recall having any Lego sets growing up.

When I became Blind as an adult, I had small sighted children, but man, I wish I had a Lego set with accessible instructions to actively engage in with my kids.

I did have a set of Braille Uno cards. That was one of the ways I practiced Braille. Unfortunately my daughter only three years old then would beat me constantly and it just wasn’t any fun! And for the record, I didn’t let her win. I’m not that type of parent. She was just a little card shark. I’m still not over that!

Matthew recently found a cool way to pair Lego bricks with a new interest.

MS:

A few months ago I started climbing with a team of disabled rock climbers. I saw that the Blind rock climbers were really struggling because there’s a person at the bottom of the climbing wall who yells directions at you. And that’s great because then you can get up to the top, but you have no opportunity to think ahead and really plan for yourself. As opposed to the sighted climber who’s able to come up to the wall look at it and really strategize as to where they put their various appendages. I thought well wouldn’t it be cool to make a Lego based mapping system for rock climbers.

TR:

Next time he went to the rock climbing gym, HE brought his Lego bricks and figured out a method for mapping the wall.

MS:

Different types of pieces are used for different types of holes. Two by ones are jugs which are large rounded holes and then one by ones are crimps which are smaller holes. Three by ones are legends and one by one flat round pieces are foot holes.

TR:

The map is laid out by working with that sighted person who yells directions.

MS:

They can do it in a matter of minutes. A minute or less. And so this could easily be used in climbing competitions.

[TR in conversation with MS:]
And then the person right before they’re climbing could actually kind of go through it . Now do you retain that information?

MS:

I try to retain but sometimes when someone yells out it’s also useful because you’re able to correct yourself on the fly and you’re able to kind of rethink your process if you’ve taken a slightly different path up than you initially estimated the yelling person is really valuable because they’re able to make you reassess your situation in a very sensible way.

[TR in conversation with MS:]

You’re younger than me man, I don’t retain as much anymore. Laughs…

Has this an impact on your view of advocacy? Do you have intentions on kind of moving forward and doing more of this type of thing?

MS

I have a comic book accessibility project where I’m building a virtual reality headset for Blind people with engineers at MIT. This headset makes you feel different motions by affecting your sense of balance and messing with it.

TR:

It sounds like the lessons learned with Lego are being applied to his latest project.

MS:

I thought about the way comics were made. I found that comic books run on scripts. These scripts are like movie scripts that they’re incredibly detailed and they tell the artist exactly what to draw and how to draw it. I thought this is our way in. What I need to do now is to network with authors and artists and comic book companies and really energize them. I’ve been in talks with Marvel Comics and combining this helmet that we’re working on with their comic books really provide a new dimension to their work via blind or sighted

The total strangers who owe you nothing but who are still incredibly enthusiastic. I go to comic book conventions every year to network with authors and kind of tell them about it engaging aspects of advocacy the project and Blind people and how comics help Blind people learn about the world around them.

These people are really energized by the fact that comics are being interpreted in a new way. I’m a random Blind guy with ideas. When I come up to their table and say I’d like to kind of look into how you write. Are any of your scripts available on your website? Could I figure out how to do this and make this accessible? They don’t owe me anything. They could say, sorry I only sign books goodbye. But no, they’re thrilled that comic books are going beyond the newsstand, beyond the bookshelf even beyond the television screen into new medium. The more success you have with advocacy the more energized you are to go out there and advocate more and make more things accessible to Blind people or disabled people or whoever.

TR:

Matthews latest project is looking at a different sort of access.

MS:

We have practically no Blind people in the mainstream podcasting space. And it’s interesting because podcasting seems to be such a Blind friendly medium, but when you look at places like I don’t know MPR, major broadcasters no one there is Blind. I started a podcast called Blind Guy Travels. First couple of episodes are hopefully going to come out in a month or two. It takes these mundane experiences like going to the movies or gestures or making funny faces from the standpoint of a Blind person. I’m doing it with Radiotopia who are kind of the podcast branch of NPR.

TR:

To me this story of making accessible Lego instructions is not only about the power of individual advocacy, the importance of stimulating a child’s imagination but also one of friendship and commitment.
MS:

When Lilya died she left a couple of instructions for sets that we hadn’t built yet. And it’s interesting now finishing those sets and building them and just kind of keeping the energy alive. Lego will do their own thing but hopefully Lego for the Blind will do its own thing just because Lego are going to start adapting from a certain year. Everything before then will be inaccessible. I have a list of sets that people want made accessible. The goal will be to find instruction writers. I can teach them easily how to do this and the goal will be to find instruction writes and to teach them to craft instructions and to keep the Lego For the Blind website growing and going beyond what Lilya and I have done.

TR:

How many times have we heard; a picture is worth a thousand words.

I don’t think we need a thousand words to describe the benefit of making the images that are the Lego instructions accessible.

MS:

I just remember building that set and feeling completely (exhale…) very free!
TR:

If you’re interested in helping this effort or just want to know more about any of the projects mentioned or more about Matthew including his music, contact him.

MS:

On Lego For the Blind there’s a contact uplink at the bottom and they could find me there. On Twitter @MatShhifrin Mat with one t. And on YouTube I’m Shifrin2002.

TR:

If you liked what you heard hear, all I ask is that you share the podcast. It’s safe, you don’t have to be within six feet of anyone to do so. Just send a text, email, a tweet a post on FB. Let them know you’re listening to something that you find enjoyable and informative.
It’s available wherever you get podcasts. And transcripts and more can be found at ReidMyMind.com. Just make sure you let them know, it’s R to the E I D (Audio: “D, and that’s me in the place to be” Slick Rick)

TR:
Like my last name!

Audio: Reid My Mind Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

Audio: Vocal crescendo from opening of “White Lines” Grand Master Flash & The Furious Five

TR:

Greetings and welcome back to another episode of Reid My Mind Radio! Let’s go!

Audio: Stevie Wonder Higher Ground
If you’re here for the first time, allow me to get you up to speed.

My name is T.Reid and thanks for stopping by. This podcast is my space to share stories and profiles around blindness & disability. Occasionally I produce stories around my own vision loss experience as an adult.

You joined the podcast in time to catch the third and final episode featuring all three 2018 Holman Prize winners.

I strongly encourage you to not only go back and listen to the other two episodes from 2018, but you should really go back and listen to the 2017 winners as well.

If you’re not familiar with the Holman Prize, no problem! Get comfortable and allow me to introduce you. But first we have one rule here. I don’t start without my intro music!

Audio: Reid My Mind Intro Music

TR:

The San Francisco Lighthouse for the second year in a row, awarded a $25,000 Holman Prize to each of three individuals who in their own way demonstrate the adventurous spirit of James Holman.

All applicants had to create a 90 second video describing their ambition and how they would use the money.
A team of judges all of whom are blind reviewed each video and eventually selected three winners.

Born in 1786 James Holman a veteran of the British Royal Navy became blind at 25 years old after an illness.

After studying medicine and literature he became an adventurer, author and social observer who circumnavigated the globe.

Undertaking a series of solo journeys that were unprecedented visiting all inhabited continents.

our final 2018 Holman prize winner is Red Szell.

RS:
I work for the Royal National Institute for the Blind, in the UK. I present a radio show called “Read On” which is all about books and reading.

TR:
Careful now. If you’re imagining the stereotypical book worm, try again.

RS:

I’d become a really keen rock climber in my teens. And I was good at it. Rode a bicycle around everywhere, did a lot of sports, cross country running, a bit of Cricket. I was a keen outdoorsy kind of person.

TR:

Red, a published author, is an accomplished extreme sports athlete.

If you’re not sure as to what makes one an extreme sport athlete well, you’re not the only one. There’s some question about what makes a sport considered extreme.

Wikipedia defines extreme sports as;
“a competitive (comparison or self-evaluative) activity within which the participant is subjected to natural or unusual physical and mental challenges such as speed, height, depth or natural forces and where fast and accurate cognitive perceptual processing may be required for a successful outcome”

Since 19 years old, “fast and accurate cognitive perceptual processing presents a challenge for Red.

RS:

I was told, “You’ll be blind by the age of 30.” Just like that.

I’ve got Retinitis Pigmentosa which is a degenerative disease of the retinas.

I basically went into a sulk to be honest I was at University so the beer was cheap (laughs) I just went into a bit of a sulk. It was shock. And it took quite a long time to get over it.

TR:
About 20 years according to Red.

But it wasn’t as though he was sitting around.

RS:
I was working as a journalist for a bit. I gave up work to look after my two daughters as soon as the elder one was born, so I was a house husband for 16 years.

I wrote a couple of books. A detective book and I always kept fit but it was kind of like solitary activities like swimming up and down the disabled lane in British swimming pools or going to the gym or doing Pilates or Yoga

I really missed the kind of camaraderie that you get from either being part of a team or doing an activity where you’re working closely with a partner like climbing.

TR:

Isolation

That sense of isolation can be quite common among people who are blind.

RS:

but then my elder daughter had her 9th birthday party at a local indoor climbing wall and whilst all the other parents were ogling the buff bodied instructors I was just checking out the bumps and curves on these beautiful molded climbing walls going I want to get my hands on that and I want to start climbing again. And that itch that I’d been wanting to scratch for two decades just suddenly seemed possible again. I thought well I can get back out and climb again safely.

TR:

When Red was first diagnosed with RP climbing walls weren’t an option. You had to do it the old fashion way, find a big rock and start climbing.

Early indoor rock climbing facilities weren’t of interest to Red as they weren’t very challenging.

RS:

The climbing wall that I went to for my daughter’s 9th birthday party had these 18 meter high walls and they were over hanging and challenging. It was just like being back outdoors again and I just… it just immediately hit my adrenaline button.

TR:

When that adrenaline gets going, you don’t want to keep it bottled up.

RS:
For a long time I was very good in being the happy blind person … well doesn’t Red take this well. Concealing inside that I was really pissed off. I don’t know if I can say that on your show…

[TR in conversation with RS]
You can say anything man!

RS:
Laughs… ok!

And actually like anything that you bottle up, it tends to go off. It tends to go sour. Actually what I learned though getting active in group activities again is a lot of it because you have to externalize it, you actually let off a lot of steam as well. It’s part of the process.

TR:

With the combination of adrenaline and access all Red required was action.

RS:

After my daughter’s 9th birthday at the local rock climbing center I turned up a little bit sheepishly with my white cane in my hand and said look I used to be a pretty decent rock climber. I know I’m blind but would you give me lessons and my instructor Trevor said yeh, why wouldn’t I. And I went what really and … I’m not going to discriminate against you just because your blind you said that you used to love climbing so do I.

TR:

Right there! that’s where Red and his climbing instructor Trevor found common ground. As we’ll see that’s an important message Red hopes to share with others. Proving inclusion and access is of benefit to all.

RS:

It was great. He gave me a great accolade after the third lesson that we had. Actually instructing me made him a better teacher because he had to think outside the sighted box. And that was great.

As soon as I got my strength back , my climbing strength back, I was actually making pretty good progress and it felt really good to improve doing something physical rather than having a degenerative physical disability and feeling that things were getting worse day by day. I was getting stronger and better at something day by day and it felt like taking one back for the good guys to be honest.

TR:
Feeling robbed by vision loss can lead to self-doubt.

RS:
I’d given up originally because if I couldn’t trust my eye sight how could I expect other people to trust my judgement, but actually through indoor climbing I re-discovered that passion but also that ability to control risk, be in charge of my own destiny and communicate. And I think that’s the thing that I get from rock climbing. And also from tandem bike riding and swimming. If you’re doing one of those activities with a buddy then it’s about communication. If your buddy is willing to help you then it’s actually down to you to give them the correct type of communication so that the two of you can achieve as well as you can. And I think that was something. It took me a lot of time. it took me two decades to realize that.

TR:
Armed with this new perspective, Red unknowingly or maybe subconsciously, began the process of ascending towards his goals.
Following a climbing workout with his trainer, Red mentioned one of his pre vision loss climbing goals.

RS:
And then one fateful day, whilst Trevor, my instructor was waxing lyrical about his favorite mountain side, I laid gasping on the ground having just overcome a tricky hanging problem, I let slip this dream that I had since I was about 12 years old of climbing something called the Old Man of Hoy.

TR:

The Old Man of Hoy is a sea stack off the coast of Scotland.

Sea Stacks also referred to as just a stack is a geological landform consisting of a steep and often vertical column or columns of rock in the sea near a coast, formed over time from erosion due to wind and water.

The Old Man of Hoy is considered one of the 10 most amazing stacks. it’s about 449 feet tall and only several hundred years old. Experts believe it may collapse soon.

Red became interested in climbing the stack after watching a documentary about Chris Bonington a mountaineer who climbed Everest.

RS:
He climbed everything . He is a Rock God.
that was the rock pinnacle that I kind of had emblazoned on my heart that I always wanted to climb. I said that to Trevor and Trevor went ok, I’ve climbed that. Well you know, with a bit of work you could probably do it. You know, you’re a good climber, you could probably do it. And that was it, it started itching … I started to go I got to do this. By then I got a climbing partner and I mentioned it to him and this dream kind of became a target because my climbing partner is quite pushy and so is Trevor.

TR:

Audio: From 2012 Olympics Opening
“Welcome to London”

Encouraged by the athletes competing in the 2012 London Paralympics taking, Red began taking steps to accomplish his long time goal.

RS:

That summer of London 2012 was the time that I started thinking this is possible. Then at a slightly drunken Christmas party at the end of 2012 my climbing partner was just ribbing me going ” When are you going to do this , when are you going to do this?” I just said Let’s do it next summer.

[TR in conversation with RS]
Who says alcohol isn’t good for something, huh?

Laughs with RS

RS:
Alcohol makes the plans.

TR:
Maybe, but executing them can be sobering.

Red dropped a bit of extra weight and in 2013 became the first blind man to climb the old man of hoy.

RS:
They made a film of it which was broadcast on the BBC over here.

and talk about taking one back for the good guys. That was one in the eye for Retinitis Pigmentosa, screw you, I can still do this.

TR:
After successfully climbing the Old Man of Hoy, in 2014 Red reached the pinnacle of another, the Old man of Storr.

His latest quest or in this case his Holman Ambition once again includes a sea stack.

Am Buachaille  , the rock that I’m going to go and climb is the third of the big Scottish sea stacks.

This is the most extreme. It’s miles away from anywhere. You have to cross Bog land. You have to abseil down cliffs you have to swim out to the base of it and then you got 90 minutes to climb it before the sea cuts you off and strands you over night. Not many sighted people take it on.

TR:
Yet Red along with his climbing partner Mathew will take it on. In a nutshell, here’s what they have to do.

Audio: Let There Be Rock, ACDC

RS:

Everything is against the clock.

Audio: Clock ticking…>

We have to setoff at the right time. Building in the fact that the land we are crossing is boggy. We will probably fall off a few times.

Audio: Bike fall and wheel spin

We’ll probably have to pull this heavyweight Cannondale tandem out of the bog, clean it up and move on. We’ll get punches, it’s a tough climb.

Then we’ve got to abseil down.

TR:
That’s a descent down the face of the cliff to reach their entry point into the water.

RS:

wait for the tide to get slack to go out to minimize the amount of swimming that we have to do and to be able to get on the platform at the bottom. Not a manmade platform but the bit that you can actually stand on to start the climb at the bottom of the sea stack.

We’ve got to get dressed again, get our equipment out. We’ve got to climb it and do that and get back down within 90 minutes otherwise the tide will cut us off.

TR:

You would think that when their finished climbing the sea stack that’s it, right? Wrong! They have to turn around and do the whole thing in reverse.

RS:
You got to swim it , bring your equipment there and back and then you got to be up the cliff and then cycling back before it gets dark. Not too much of a problem for me but it might be for my sighted climbing partner.

TR:

If you’re a sighted listener, feel free to join the blind and low vision listeners who are giggling at that last comment.

He may sound calm and make light of the situation but he takes it all quite seriously.
RS:

I don’t like to have a challenge that I can’t work out how to do but I came up with this plan about two years ago having sort of scoped it out beforehand. I just thought that’s impossible. A, that needs a lot of resources. B, it needs a lot of planning and C I’m not getting any younger. It’s a tough challenge.

TR:

Indeed. Just think about all of the variables at play. Communication, equipment

***Start Here***
RS:
We are talking about the United Kingdom that has a habit of pissing down rain just when you don’t need it to. Or high winds, We can’t climb in that. There’s a lot of planning.

There is a lot of stuff to go wrong and one of the things that you learn as a climber is that you minimize all the potential for things going wrong. So you draw up lists of what can go wrong and how you can stop it from going wrong. What you might break, equipment wise. What you can afford to bring with you as a spare.

We’ll do it. It’s a scary challenge even here 9months out it’s probably the toughest climbing challenge I’ll have ever done.

TR:

At first, I thought Red’s motivation was vengeance. as in revenging vision loss itself. Specifically, Retinitis Pigmentosa.
RS:

Includes audio reverb effect as in flashback…

it felt like taking one back for the good guys to be honest.
talk about taking one back for the good guys. That was one in the eye for Retinitis Pigmentosa

TR:

And so we’re clear, I’m not judging.

Maybe that is a motivator for some. Whatever gets you moving, right?
And you need momentum to reach your peak.

And along the way, motivations can change from personal to those that have a broader impact.

RS:

I think my diagnosis of blindness made me a little scared to go out of the door at times. It made me need to have a reason to go outdoors.
Other people’s
perception of blindness is that we are mobility impaired and maybe there’s a lot of activities that we shouldn’t do . My view of the world is that you go and kick the ass out of it and if you can find a way of doing that that gives you pleasure and has you playing with other people playing along with other people and doing stuff that you can they enjoy, blindness should be no barrier to that. Go out and find the thing that makes you tick and kick the ass out of it. Life is too short to sit there looking at what you lost rather than what you can still achieve.

I kind of wish that I’ve done a bit more in those years before I rediscovered climbing.

I don’t like what if’s and I don’t want other people to have what if’s. I want to spread the word that whether it’s Yoga, Pilates, climbing kayaking or just walking to your corner store and back every day, getting out and doing some physical activity makes you feel much better.

That’s what it’s all about for me.

TR:

Writing his own account of his 2013 climb of the Old man of Hoy in his book, The Blind Man of Hoy has given Red the chance to spread his message.

The Holman Prize will give him a chance to increase his visibility and reach a wider audience. Yes, he hopes to inspire other blind people, but it’s what he hopes the sighted family and friends can learn that I find intriguing.

RS:

I got a blind friend , maybe I should ask him if he wants to go swimming. Maybe I should see if we could rent a tandem and we could get outdoors
if just one person’s life is changed by showing what we still have as blind people in potential then my job is done. I’ know that I’ve made some difference already. I want to build on that success .

TR:

Changing perceptions isn’t easy. Red knows. Based on his own estimate it took him about 20 years to re-focus how he views his vision loss.

RS:

when I got to the full summit of the Old Man of Hoy and there’s this huge crack in the top of the sea stack as if a giant has taken a cleaver to it and split it down about 50 meters. I could feel the wind coming off the Atlantic and could sense the sun all over my face and I thought I’ve got there this is brilliant and then my climbing partner just went not yet mate , I went but this is still pretty cool, I’m just going to bask in this .

I thought my blindness has got me here. Without my blindness I would never have been climbing that rock. I would have been sitting in front of some computer somewhere doing some boring ass job earning money for the man and thinking I wish I carried on climbing. My blindness got me there. Without it I wouldn’t have achieved those pages in my story.

when I got this job working for the radio station my Dad actually turned around to me and he went you always wanted to be a radio journalist didn’t you . And I went yeh that’s what I wanted to do when I was in my teens. And he went and you’re doing it. You’re doing it about books. People are paying you to listen to audio books and interview authors. What’s not to like about that.

And I thought it’s a really funny round about world where it took 30 years and going blind for me to actually achieve two of my most dearly held dreams.

Whilst I’ll never feel truly grateful to Retinitis Pigmentosa I guess I’ve got to thank it for some of the opportunities it’s given me.

TR:
In fact, Red says it was his boss Yvonne at RNIB, the Royal National Institute for the Blind, who suggested he pursue the Holman Prize.
RS:

Royal National Institute for Blind people is celebrating its 150th anniversary this year. It supports people with sight loss. It gives help, advice and equipment to people with sight loss to help us lead as constructive a life as possible.

We have the most amazing talking books library which also has Braille and giant print copies of hundreds of thousands of books.

TR:
If you want to stay in touch with his progress, send congratulations or listen to his show…

RS:

You can find me at my website RedSzell.com where you’ll find all of my latest news. You can drop me an email if you want to and you can find Read On by looking up RNIBConnectRadio/ReadOn.

TR:
So there’s no confusion, he spells that R E A D. I know weird, right?

TR:

Red and I have a lot in common.

We’re both around the same age, actually I’m one year older than the young man.

Both losing our sight later in life.
Dad’s to two daughters.
We’re both interested in audio journalism.

But I guess there could only be one …

Audio: King of Rock, RunDMC.

Salute to Red Szell, Stacy Cervenka & Conchita Hernandez the 2018 Holman Prize winners. I’m sure the Reid My Mind Radio family joins me in congratulating you all and agree that we’re looking forward to hearing more about your journey and success.

Shot out to the San Francisco Lighthouse for their leadership and sponsorship of the Holman Prize.

I think it’s worth recognizing the amount of time and thought put into this project.

It’s something that could easily be done wrong.

The diversity of the winners and their ambitions indicates to me at least that it’s really about encouragement, visibility and the promotion of positive examples of what is possible for people who are blind and low vision and in general people with disabilities.

Three things that I hope are also associated with this podcast.

Next time, we’re going back to catch up with 2017 Holman Prize winners and Reid My Mind Radio Alumni…

Penny Melville Brown of Baking Blind

Ahmet Ustenel AKA The Blind Captain

Ojok Simon, The Bee Keeper & Honey Farmer!

We’ll hear about what worked with their plans and what sort of adjustments were required. And of course lessons learned.

If there’s one lesson I want Reid My Mind Radio listeners to learn; that would be , how to subscribe to this podcast.

Apple Podcast, Google Play, Sound Cloud, Stitcher or Tune In Radio. Of course, whatever podcast app you use, you can find it there by searching for Reid My Mind Radio. Just remember, that’s R to the E I D!

Each episode lives on the blog, ReidMyMind.com where I include links to any resources and a transcript.

You know, I may not have been crowned King of Rock, but you know what they say…

RS:
He’s a Rock God!

Peace!

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