Reid My Mind

TR:
In today’s episode, we continue in our ongoing advocacy for the inclusion of Blind people in audio description. Since this is Flipping the Script, where we go beyond the mainstream AD conversation, we’re going to show you how AD contributes to our creativity.

Welcome! I’m Thomas Reid and this is Reid My Mind Radio!

— Reid My Mind Radio theme music.

Kemal:
My name is Kemal Gorey. Some of my friends call me KG. I’m a Media Composer. He him, I identify as blind or legally blind. I have kind of brown gray hairs, medium length, and I have glasses, not sunglasses, but I have some fancy Mont Blanc glasses that I always like to mention because they are fancy.

Sample: “And I’m Super Bad” James Brown

I’m currently serving at ramped as a secretary. Recording Artists & Music Professionals with Disabilities. Also, I have a guide dog, who name is Blute means cloud in English.
She’s a yellowish golden retriever. But when she was a baby, the donors told me that she look like a cloud. So that’s why they gave the name Blute. If I do not mention her, she will make it a big deal.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Yeah. My daughter just got a dog it’s a baby, and he just got neutered, or, as I like to say, destroyed.

— Sound of a dog whimpering.

TR:
Now that I mentioned two dogs, I bet this will be one of the highest ranking podcast episodes. (Chuckles) You can’t compete with children or animals!

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So let’s talk about your relationship to disability, so folks have an understanding of where we’re coming from in this conversation.

Kemal:
My journey as a visually impaired individual starts in my really early months on the face of the earth.

My usual habit was blending in and finding some workarounds. That’s the main, central part of my relationship with my disability.

There’s a two face of this medallion this picture. First part is, yes, being innovative, being an inventor, and trying to blend in into the community.

Yes, I’m a natural problem solver, just like all other individuals with disabilities. But on the other hand, most of the energy that I’ve been spending in my childhood, to find ways to blend in, blend into the community, blend into the kindergarten , in the school, and Everywhere. It’s a matter of fact that how to hide yourself and how to hide your identity. It’s a dark part, because people, at least in 90s in my country, Turkey, it’s always a thing. People try to identify you with something.

you don’t look like you’re blind at all. That’s a thing.

TR:
A thing that we know is not exclusive at all to Turkey. In fact, this isn’t exclusive to blindness.

Over the years of producing this podcast, I’ve had the opportunity to speak with so many people about their own experience with disability. There’s no difference between, “You don’t look Blind” and “Girl, you look too good to be in a wheel chair.”

Another common experience we share, not giving in to the idea of hiding yourself.

Kemal:
And this was the center of my relationship with my disabled identity for a long time of my life, until the adulthood. Then I learned how to accept my identity, welcome it, and make it part of my life.

Yes, I’m blind, and it’s not only the part of my identity, but as a professional, it’s the part of my brand also.
When I decided to accept my identity as a trained musician, as a human being, as a composer , then the color of things started to change in a good way.
because then I know who I am, I accept who I am, I celebrate who I am

Then I found my community, although not in my country, but in the States. In spite of the fact that I still based in Istanbul, my body lives in Istanbul, but my career and my community stays and grows in the States, and I can’t be glad and grateful enough for that.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So I’m wondering, when you say blending in, does that have something to do with you and how you took to music? Is there a relationship?

Kemal:
You’re on a really great track here. That’s where my journey with music begins, and that’s the main motivation.

I remember my very first on stage experience, and it was when I was four. My uncle is a well known rock star in my country. Is one of the legends, one of the local and even kind of an international rock legend in Turkey, and my first, very first on stage experience was a duet with him. I think he was thinking it would be adorable to make a duet with a four year old kid.

TR:
Remember what I said about children and animals.

Kemal:
I remember clearly when I’ve seen all the crowd, and I was on stage, I thought, oh my god, the crowd area it’s really messy. It’s overcrowded and there’s a lot of noise in there and dark.
But on the contrary, stage was bright. There was only five or six people on the stage, and I have the microphone, so it looked safer to me.

TR:
And then it went beyond safety.

Kemal:
People shouting your name, clapping, celebrating you, good stuff comes with the live performance.

I can say that my father is an amateur guitar player. Music always was the great part of. My life. Yes, my the stereo was my beloved toy in my childhood when I was a kid. But this is the moment that I decided to start that journey. Maybe I didn’t know that entirely, but it led me to this professional path. That moment on the stage with the lights, and I was the one who has the microphone, who had the microphone.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
I love that.

What’s your uncle’s name?

Kemal:
My uncle has a really long Turkish name. Nejat Yavasogullari. The band’s name is Bulutsuzluk Ozlemi. He and his band has a really unique and important place, because my uncle himself mentored many other younger rock groups and opened the path for them, that’s why their legend. And also their song is still at the top of the rock genre in Turkey.

TR:
While that was Kemal’s first and last time performing with his uncle , (I’m telling you there’s no competing with children and animals)that set Kemal on his path. It helped him find his instrument.

Kemal:
I instantly fell in love with that big instrument and all the possibilities.

— Music begins: A bright piano melody.

I studied violin and cello in fine arts high school. I took some violin lessons, even drum set lessons. I still in love with bass guitar by myself, but the piano was the weapon I choose back in days, because
in my humble opinion, I think it’s the most complex instrument and the core of the music.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What were you listening to as a child that really sort of kind of connected with you?

Kemal:
Even though I’m a Turkish kid born and raised in Turkey because of my father and mother, jazz, blues and rock has (been )the major part in my life.

My dad is a really big Miles Davis fan. My mom herself is a really big fan of Buddy Guy. She still is. We have a little Buddy Guy statue in our house taken from the buddy guys home bar in Chicago.

I’m a really big fan of jazz and blues, even though never managed to become a full time jazz musician.
But somehow, even though it’s not a part my mom’s or dad’s musical life, somehow I decided to go start listening classical music.
Opera, in particular.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
So tell me a little bit about your experience with audio description,

Kemal:
what if I tell you I’ve never experienced an audio description till I became a media professional.

— Swoosh that builds up and leads into a crash.

TR:
What?

— Music begins: “Dance Noir” By Kemal Gorey, a bright melodic tune consisting of a mix of various string instruments.

Kemal:
My career in the states starts in 2020 with the competition that I won, ran by Abel artist Foundation, founded by Steven letnes. I applied for his content for the contest that able artist foundation runs.

Somehow I recognize as a grand prize winner. There were some prizes linked with some publishers a couple of years past and I found myself in a project, working with Steve, a project called possibilities. You were also part of it, right?

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
I was interviewed for it.

TR:
It’s a documentary produced by the American Foundation for the Blind. They speak with a variety of different Blind people in all sorts of fields. Several are part of the RMM Radio family including Satauna Howery who narrates the open audio description.

Kemal:
That was the first time I’ve experienced the audio description because I’ve been working in the project as an additional music writer and Steve’s assistant, the composer assistant.

TR:
Composing music for a film with open audio description means you’re going to have to compose music that takes the AD into consideration.

Kemal:
I watched that documentary like, 1000 time.

Being visually impaired, legally blind, can put you in weird situations where, because the doctors keep telling you, you should using your site, but at the same time you same doctors keep telling you need accessibility, equipment and tools, all right, but where is the balance?

You are the one who should find the balance in your life and it can be tricky. Also, we really don’t have audio description. Let’s say the audio description was not that popular in Turkey or not existed at all at all, mostly back in the days.

Thanks to my private school education, I have a fairly acceptable English so I can watch movies in English, but I never tried an audio description. I saw audio description as an option, but with the possibilities, I experienced that for a long time, and then I utterly understand how comforting It is then, how crucial it is, because you never thought something’s important, until you experience it all by yourself.

TR:
Today?

Kemal:
Audio description should be the part of the core production budget. It shouldn’t be optional. It should be a requirement, a core budget item, like, we need music in the movie. We need dialog mix in the movie. . We need audio description in a movie or any kind of motion picture, that should be the rule, because the blind community have every right to access all media content in an accessible way.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Absolutely, I will not fight you on that. (Laughs)

Kemal:
(Laughing) You should not!

(The two laugh.)

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
Now that you are aware of it after possibilities, do you access more content with audio description today?

Kemal:
I can’t say that because, I still have some sight.

My usual habit is still consuming the visual content with my eyes, but I’m also getting older, so I don’t know what future holds, but it’s really comforting and heartwarming that at least there is an option.

TR:
Options are great! Kemal, actually did take the opportunity to listen to audio description, not as a consumer, but as a creator.

Kemal:
actually, it was a really interesting, strange, challenging, definitely, maybe the most inspiring project that I have ever been. It’s called, how great is your darkness? A silent movie about disability culture and how medical institutions treats the disabled persons and why the ableism is really strong in that field.

It’s like a art house short movie established by seven short stories. Each one of them reflects different problems in the medical industry.

TR:
The film is currently making the film festival rounds and will hopefully arrive on a streaming platform at some point for us all to see.

Kemal:
A Finnish director, Jenny Iulia, please forgive me that I cannot pronounce her really long last name. She warned me not to try that.
She decided to create an audio description for that movie.

A Finnish person who is the father of the Finnish audio description scripted the audio description. They recorded it. She decided she wants music in that movie, but the music will be sync with the other description.

TR:
Yulia decided, she didn’t want the composer of the music for her film to actually see the film. Rather, she wanted to music to be composed based on the audio description.

Kemal:
It’s a comedy movie.
There’s a lot of sync points, like cartoonish sync points. Well,

TR:
A comedy? Not the first genre that comes to mind when thinking about ableism in medicine, but ok.

I haven’t seen the film, but if you’re not clear about sync points, think slap stick. You need the music to be timed with the pie in the face or the fall after slipping on the banana peel.
— Slapstick music

Kemal:
it’s a real comedy.

TR:
The challenges go beyond hitting the comedic sync points.

Kemal:
One, because it’s a silent movie, there’s no dialog. Everything is told by gestures and that’s why all the description never stops, talking, talking, talking. (Fades away)

So for a Media Composer, it’s a nightmare, because since the voiceover never stops, how I score something has its own taste, has its own part, but will not fight with the voiceover, which never stops.
But the bigger challenge is the director told me that she will combine the score, the audio description and the picture after I deliver everything to her. And I was like, okay, then give me the picture so I can catch all sing points, and it will be done. She told me , nah, I won’t give you anything, score the music, and we will see whether or not it will fit with the picture.

TR in conversation with Kemal:
She’s definitely a comedian.

(The two laugh.)

Kemal:
She’s a multidisciplinary artist. And I still can’t believe how inspiring she is. She took all the time talk about all the allegories that she used, all the reflections, all the sub context, and she was always accessible for questions and more debates in terms of how the music should be. And she didn’t give any hint what kind of music that she wants.

TR:
Fortunately, she hinted that she wanted the music to sound fancy. By that she meant classical.

Kemal:
I scored a Hollywood style comedy score, all the bells and whistles, all the wind, strings, brasses, percussion, everything.

TR:
The director’s plan was to move a few things around if necessary to sync the score to the film.

Kemal:
She called me eventually And she was like, Kemal, guess what? I said what? I decided to not change anything. I will place all cues as they are. I was like, Okay, why did you decided to do that? She was like, you will see. I will send you the picture.

TR:
He watched it. And of course, like any artist, he found some technicalities he could change, but all in all…

Kemal:
The score nailed it. It was like a magical moment for me, because I never tried to do that in my entire life. I used to work with picture. I’m proud of myself. It just worked with just audio description. And it’s a silent movie Thomas.

TR:
Audio description is more than entertainment. It’s empowering.

Kemal:
it was my proudest moment on my professional career, I nailed a ridiculous challenge, and it opens a whole new door in my creativity and in the world of creativity, I assume because now we have a proof of concept that a Blind Media Composer can score a motion picture thing. It can be a short movie, it can be a feature film, it can be a cartoon. It can be anything, if there’s audio description that will be enough. And if you want to make it perfect, then provide some time codes, it will be perfect.

TR:
Octavia Butler wrote; “there’s nothing new under the sun.”

In 1979 Stevie Wonder released the album Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. This was the score to the documentary titled Secret Life of Plants.

— Audio from the documentary…

Stevie, or some of y’all know I like to refer to him as my uncle Stevie, (a filtered voice remarks, “He’s not your uncle.) scored the film based on the description he was given of the films visuals; ahem, audio description.

This doesn’t take anything away from Kemal’s accomplishment . I share this to be factual and model the idea that we’ve been here y’all!
An awareness of our history, especially going beyond what we’re spoon fed, is inspiring and let’s us know it’s all possible.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What made Jenny Yulia choose you?

Kemal:
She wanted to work with a blind composer and the creator team found me because I published an article in blind new world in beginning of 2024.

TR:
I’ll link you to that article in this episode’s blog post at ReidMyMind.com.

Kemal
Then we connected on Zoom. And something clicked between Yulia and I, and I knew that it will be hell of a journey with her. And it really was

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
You have a great energy, bro. So I can see why people would click with you.

Kemal:
it’s very kind of you, thank you so much for that.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
You mentioned that this accomplishment open the door for creativity. Yes, we can score animation. We can score movies. Does it go beyond that for you?

Kemal:
Actually, yeah. I want to focus on Western art music Impressionism, and expressionism. These are the two genres in the Western art music area and there are fathers of that, two genres, one with you, interpretate what you see. It can be a painting, it can be a sculpture, it can be anything. It can be even a kind of a story or poem.

— “Mona Lisa” Nat King Cole

TR:
I’ve been interested in sound designing image descriptions for various pieces of art including paintings and sculptures.
Rather than your straight vanilla reading of an image description, imagine how engaging an experience could be when
we combine a performed reading of a poetic image description with musical composition and sound design?

As Blind people, we aren’t going to have the same experience with visual art so why not strive for new experiences.

Kemal:
The music should serve the story, it’s like a sidekick to the story, and audio description, even though tells what’s going on
it will definitely fail to express all the allegories in it. And the music comes to help, because music tells whether or not it’s creepy, lousy, fictitious, Mystic, empowering, engaging, heroic, the music, the one which expresses the emotions, like anger, love, being desperate, outrage, or the expressions like, hilarious, annoying, embarrassing.

from a blind audience perspective, they will not be able to see the clouding, they will not be able to see the color grading because audio description has a limited time to tell what’s going on.

TR:
We’re talking about all of the small details in a scene whether static or moving. Could it be written? Yes. But is it always the most engaging?

Kemal:
The score can do those kind of things.
What if score tells the weather is cloudy and the woman, even though look pretty, she has something in her mind that makes her sad. An audio description will maybe express some of those, but will not be able to tell all of it. But music can express those things with the sounds that opens the whole new world of creativity to me.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
What does the ad viewer need to know? Are we literate enough to be able to translate what you’re communicating musically?

I think what I really probably should say is that we need to pay more attention.

I’ll admit that I listen to the music and I listen to sound design and I get the vibe, but I don’t know if I always put it into context of what the story is saying.
I feel like I need to be paying more attention to that music, that sound design, and the AD. It’s a lot of work.

Kemal:
It’s not entirely your fault.

Maybe audio description might mask the score in some certain places. Maybe the director wants to go another route. Maybe they don’t want to use music at all. We should look at the masterpieces here. I think the most famous score, Star Wars.

TR:
Next time on Flipping the Script on Audio Description, we’ll explore sound design and music in movies.
What are some of the things we should know, how can we become more active listeners and maybe take a listen to some examples.

Not just for the sake of doing so but with the intention of making use of the other ways information is communicated in visual media. Creative ways that we as non visual consumers can explore and benefit from.

In addition to composing for film, Kemal has some top secret projects I look forward to learning more about in the future.

Kemal:
We’ve been working on a project with Lachi, my friend and colleague. I can’t tell more about it just yet, NDA’s.

There’s also something coming up. I just saw the papers in my email just before I connected here. It will be kind of a different project, that much I can tell. It won’t be a motion picture thing, it will be a theatrical. Takes place in New York.

TR in Conversation with Kemal:
If you’re gonna be in New York City, definitely let me know. I’m right there man.

Kemal:
I will definitely do that.

TR:
For Kemal, music helped him, in his own words, blend in. For some that may sound like hiding and perhaps at one point it was. But today, Kemal is clear about what that means to him.

Kemal:
In the past? It means, if people doesn’t get the clue that I have a site condition, then I will consider myself blended.

I think it kind of ruined my social life when I was young, and it kind of ruined my love life.
Now, blending is celebrating who you are.

Everybody, including myself accepts my identity. Everybody including myself celebrates it, because that’s who I am.

Thanks to my dear friend Steven Letnes, and thanks to ramped recording artists and music professionals with disabilities, thanks to all those, I’ve found a community. Now blending is celebrating who you are, celebrating your identity, celebrating that out loud. Hey, my name is Kemal and I identify as blind. And what’s up with that?

(The two proudly laugh.)

TR:
That’s right, what’s up with that. (Ouie!)

I respect that commitment to shouting out those who support you along the way, especially mentors and those in your community.

Check out this episodes blog post for links to both The Able foundation and RAMPD.
And of course I’ll link you to KemalGorey.com where you can check out more about Kemal and his music.

Kemal:
kilo, Echo, Mike, Alpha, Lima, golf, Oscar, Romeo. Echo, yankee.com.

TR:
As the kids used to say, Google him baby!

Find him on all social media platforms.

Kemal:
Everything KemalGorey, blue sky, Instagram, LinkedIn, IMDb and ramped also. All professional members have their profiles at RAMPD.

TR
This is right about the time when I let the guest know how much I appreciate the fact that they shared their expertise and time with the family.

I was inspired to do that a little differently now, check this out.

— Music begins: A piano synth loop that leads to a strong kick and driving beat.
TR:
In 2014 I introduced you to this podcast | It’s a passion project, that means all love, no cash
Over 10 years bringing you nothing but facts | my goal for this has always been impact!
I invite a guest, take a topic tailor it just for you | a disability perspective always shining through
Thanks to my guest for sharing your time with me, You’re official | Reid My Mind Radio Family… Raa!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official? | Official, uh uh official
Kemal: Kemal Gorey
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

For all y’all thinking, hmmm, what can I do| I wrote a checklist so you can become official too
Sample: “One” Chuck D!
You just can’t be down if you don’t follow or subscribe | That’s the number 1 way to join this tribe!
Sample: “Two” Chuck D!
Shout it out! Tell all your friends and your foes | That’s the way we help each other when the podcast grows
Sample: “Three” Chuck D!
Buy merch, shirt or hoodie for yourself or your boo | Now look at that, you’re official too! Woo!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official? | Official, uh uh official
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
I said who’s official? | Official, uh uh official
(Applause)
You’re Official! | Reid My Mind Radio Family!

There it is!

Follow or subscribe wherever you get podcasts!
You know how we do, right?
Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com
And so there’s never, ever, ever, ever any confusion
That’s R to the E I
Sample: D! And that’s me in the place to be! Slick Rick
Like my last name!
— Reid My Mind Radio Outro
Peace

Hide the transcript

Reid My Mind Theme Music

— Sound of a “Coldest Water Bottle” opening and Thomas drinking.

TR:
So about that 10 year podcasting celebration!

See,Whahadhappen was..
I was all in to the idea.
I mean, I had multiple ideas for producing an engaging party in a podcast episode. But then…

— News Footage: “The Associated Press has called the presidency for”
— Sound of a record being scratched to a stop.

TR:
November 5, 2024. AKA, Voter suppression day. Some of y’all like to refer to it as election day, but after months of disinformation campaign’s and literally wiping people, mainly Black and brown people off the voter rolls, it’s just hard for me to refer to that as an election.

Producing the podcast just didn’t feel like the thing I was supposed to be doing. Even after realizing, I can’t let that 34 count felon change what I’m doing.

This is just another time where I see the advantage of producing a podcast as a team.

— Sound of a baseball game in progress and a homrun being hit.

TR:
Even as the coach and pitcher, it would be great for my catcher to just walk out to the mound and ask me, “You ok?” me if I’m ok.

— Sound of a football in the huddle

TR:
If football is more of your choice in sports metaphors, it would be nice to huddle up and plan our next move. We’d put our hands in and say Reid My Mind Radio on three and then walk off to our positions and slap eachother on the butt.

Sample: “Say what?”

Some of y’all see it all the time but when I say it out loud it sounds weird?
Aight, I’m not going to lie, I do find it a bit off putting.

Sample: “Nice little ass back there, huh”

Hey, what are we doing?

Ok, check this out. Anyone providing audio description for sports… call it what it is… Bootie slaps!

(Giggling) I bet that could stop that tradition.

Sample: “Booti bootie bootie bootie rockin’ everywhere!”

Anyway, I digress.

All that to say, I’m here!

I’m not jumping off the block like I have in some earlier years, but I’m here.
I’m here until I decide I’m done. That’s my decision. It’s not dependent on an election, the felon, Make America Go Autratic.
or those who want to turn back the clock to a time when people who look like me are supposed to be subserviant?

Kiss my …
Sample: “Booti bootie bootie bootie!”

— Sound of summer; crickets and a light breeze…

It’s summer. And for the past few years that has meant this podcast gets dedicated to Flipping the Script on Audio Description. So that’s what we’re doing.
As or right now, I’m bringing you either three or four episodes. The fourth isn’t finalized but I hope to bring it to you.
If not this year then some time in the near future. Truth is, I could bring you that episode outside of the Flipping the Script season.
In fact, this is true for most of the FTS episodes. Because, audio description is about everything that the orange clown and his bully squad say they don’t want.
DEI… (Filtered voice)A!

I know some of you became interested and concerned when you realized accessibility is a part of DEI or DEIA.

(Filtered voice) Yes, shots fired!

They don’t want to respect culture that isn’t so called white… If you haven’t realized it yet, we, as in people who believe in humanity, those who appreciate and respect culture, truth, fax, justice… We are better when we stick together. Keep this in mind as you think about access, audio description and as we move through these next few episodes. No matter how many that is.

Now, Before I let you go, (TR playing sings it like the Frankie Beverly song) ok, (laughing) sorry.

(Filtered voice) It’s summer, I gotta do it!

Check out the blog post for this episode, I’ll link you to some things you might be interested in.
This includes a podcast over at Pod Access.net – especially of interest for aspiring and beginning Deaf and disabled podcasters.

Check out the audio description for a graphic novel called Buffalo Sonett. The AD was produced by Social Audio Description Collective for Lincoln Center.
Finally, Reid My Mind Radio family, my brother, Ajani AJ Murray has his podcast called Acting Up with AJ & Crew.
He’s dropping an episode that focuses on a very unique example of audio description. We recorded it some time ago, but it’s evergreen and I think you’ll dig it.

See, so there’s other ways to offer up content while collaborating with people you like.

Music begins: A piano synth loop that leads to a strong kick and driving beat.

I missed y’all and I’m happy to be back in conversation with you.

I was inspired to make a new outro for the podcast. I can’t play the full thing now because it doesn’t apply, but next time you’ll hear the full outro.

Old time radio ssample: “You’re about to witness an even greater demonstration of my principal of telepathic hypnosis”

New RMM Radio Outro:

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official

You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official !
Now whose official?
Official, uh uh official | Official, uh uh official
I said who’s official?
(Applause)
You’re Official! Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Transcripts and more are at ReidMyMind.com
And so there’s never, ever, ever, ever any confusion
That’s R to the E I
Sample: D! And that’s me in the place to be! Slick Rick

TR:
Like my last name!
Peace!

Old time radio sample: “Now to test my theory of telepathic hypnosis.”

Hide the transcript

TR:
Hey there Reid My Mind Radio Family! I hope you all are doing well.
I hopped into the podcast feed to share some news about a project that I believe I mentioned here some time ago.

First though, allow me to wish you all a very happy new year. My hope for you all is safety, happiness, health and wealth. Each based on how you wish to define them.

I’m sharing a trailer from the upcoming POD Access podcast. POD Access, the website and podcast are all focused on d/Deaf and disabled podcasters. Those interested in starting or maintaining a podcast. You know, let me just drop the trailer and let you know I’ll talk to you later this year.

POD Access trailer
— a bouncy bass drum opens to bright synth trumpets announcing a fun, celebratory up-tempo Hip Hop beat
THOMAS:
If you’re currently thinking about launching a podcast, but have no idea how to start?
CHERYL: The types of podcasts, finances.
THOMAS: Recording, editing, marketing.
CHERYL: Social media, branding.
THOMAS: Theme music, a logo.
CHERYL: Maybe you’ve started one but feel as though you need a bit of coaching to really get it going? Where should we begin?
THOMAS: PodAccess.net.
CHERYL: In this series of 11 episodes, we’ll cover the basics of things to consider when starting a podcast.
THOMAS: Unlike most of the information you’ll find out there on the subject, we recognize the importance of accessibility.

CHERYL: Accessible content creation! The three ways you can potentially consume podcasts.
THOMAS: Listening, reading, watching.
CHERYL: We’ll share resources and practical tips from other Deaf and disabled podcasters in all stages of production. Tell a friend and an enemy to follow or subscribe to POD Access wherever you get your podcasts and on Instagram @PodAccess.
THOMAS: PodAccess.net.
CHERYL: Connecting d/Deaf and disabled podcasters to audiences and each other!
— music fades out

Hide the transcript

TR:
Hey everyone!
Before we begin the podcast, I have a quick request.

2024 makes 10 years of producing Reid My Mind Radio. I’d love to hear from listeners, long time or new, that have a particular relationship to a specific episode, topic raised or the podcast itself.

I’ve received some really cool emails over the years from listeners who shared how this podcast has affected their lives.

It would be really cool to hear the voices from the family and share them here on the podcast in some way.

If you have a memory or comment to share, or maybe you just want to wish the podcast happy anniversary, please, send me an audio memo from your phone or computer.

Email it to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.
Or, call the ReidMyMindRadio Hotline at (570) 798-7343 that’s (570)79T Reid. (A silly obnoxious giggle) and leave a message.

It would really mean a lot to me. And I think it could make for a cool episode to capture the moment.

I appreciate you family!
Aight! Let’s get into it!

— Swoosh transition
— Clock ticking…

TR:
The clock no longer symbolizes the expiration of time.
As in,

— “Times Up!” (modulated yelling voice)

TR:
Rather, it represents the new day!

— Birds chirping

We kicked off the new with SoundScribe,
a promising young global majority led organization from the UK making creative, innovative.

Today, we’re headed to Massachusetts.

England to Massachusetts, a path traveled before that sort of began something new.

(Giggles)
Don’t worry, this time, it’s not about conquering, genocide, human bondage or any of that colonialism.
We’re moving forward with the idea of a world free of the ism’s and phobias.
If you’re joining for the first time, I strongly encourage you to go back and listen to the entire season,
but specifically, Times Up, which provides some more context for this episode.

I’m Thomas Reid, host and producer of this podcast.

It’s time to think differently about access.
It’s time for an Access Revolution!

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

— Helicopter flying over and outdoor protest. Sounds of people chanting, whistling and commotion.

TR:
(A voice speaking to the crowd via PA system)
The Access Revolution will not only be captioned and described,
it will include ASL interpretation,
It will be free from physical barriers and
in general a welcoming space for all.
—

TR:
Thinking and acting differently about accessibility, requires all of us working together.

Sam:
I’m Sam Gould. I’m an Ashkenazi, Jewish woman with salt and pepper hair, five feet tall.

TR:
Among other things, Sam’s the president of Open Door Theater.

Sam:
Open Door Theater has a 40 year mission of being an accessible theater and a training theater. We train actors, and we train backstage folks, and front of the house folks and now ASL interpreters, audio describers, captioners. It’s a training ground for people.

TR:
Sam’s also co founder of Think Outside the Vox.

Sam:
Along with Christopher Robinson

(Sam & Christopher overlap saying “Christopher Robinson”)

Christopher:
Christopher Robinson, African American male. He him pronouns, and like to say that I’m an aspiring Morgan Freeman salt and pepper beard and curly licorice locks on the top.

TR:
An ASL Interpreter who found his way into performing arts.

Christopher:
In the mid 90s, I was working as a staff American Sign Language interpreter for a very influential deaf Executive Director, and because I was in proximity to that director, who was a theater performing arts lover and concert lover, I was in proximity to these art spaces. And then I became it. I was the beacon. Because where else you’re going to find a black male sign language interpreter in the profession, it’s really scarce. The last numbers we heard as of 2024 was that 11% of the entire profession of American Sign Language interpreters in the registry. Only 11% is African American, and that’s 2024 Never mind 1995 when nobody’s even counting.

TR:
Even as a Black ASL interpreter, Christopher isn’t of the culture.

Christopher:
I was placed in those spaces by well intentioned white deaf practitioners, white sign language interpreters to be the interpreter for these black shows that have black content. We approached how to tackle the text of blackness, but I wasn’t born and raised by Black Deaf people, and neither were the white interpreters I was working with, or the white sign language coaches that I was working with, so they had nothing to offer other than just putting me on a soap box in front of a stage and watching my Black hand sign.

TR:
We’re talking about the importance of representation, authenticity, cultural competency.

That of course applies to all forms of access.

Sam:
The accessibility landscape, and especially the AD landscape, was very checking the box.

It was very much either non existent or performed by the old guard of people who had been doing it for years.
So we came to the 80 party a little late. Our audio description was competent, but it certainly wasn’t culturally competent.

We started to hear from patrons in the open door space, but also in the community, blind patrons that wanted more.

TR:
Then there’s the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
The one thing that seems minor, but it’s really the compounding affect
the culmination of many things that just makes you say, times up!

We’re talking about access from all perspectives.

Christopher:
Well, what it came down to was, there was a theater company that wanted to do, and listen to the side of my Downton Abbey voice.
They wanted to do the right thing and the noble thing real intention, and get some sign language interpreters on the stage for this show. They wanted them to Shadow Mirror the hearing actors, so that any deaf person could go and see the show.
So they started doing their development research, and they started pricing out, well, how much is it going to be to get sign language interpreters on the stage? And the pricing points that they saw were for the context of legal Sign Language Interpreting work, medical sign language interpreter work in academic spaces, and that does not translate over into the art space.

TR:
Based on their estimates, the theater did some serious fundraising to pay sign language interpreters.

Christopher:
Fast forward through a conversation with me and a couple of deaf stakeholders that were involved. The development department of this theater company realized that if they do the anti ableist thing, which is, instead of hiring sign language interpreters, hire deaf actors. Now what you think about that? So they in the in the effort to be accessible, they were being ableist by not doing what their theater company was designed to do, which is to employ artists, and in this case, Deaf artists, to shadow non deaf artists on the stage. And where they needed the sign language interpreters was in the production room, in the rehearsal room.

TR:
That’s access for content creators as well as consumers.

Sam:
We were hearing from our blind patrons in the theater that
they were just grateful to have ad so they never actually asked for quality AD.
They weren’t feeling like they were getting the full picture of audio description in the theater when there were such great, diverse and cultural pieces going on

They were getting perfunctory dance steps, step together, step together, kick, kick.

They weren’t getting what the description was of, what the richness of and the vibrancy of the costuming, actors, characters, all of that. And they weren’t getting the sexually explicit content. Frankly, they were getting things sanitized to them, and that was making them feel infantilized.

TR:
Then there’s the perspective of Access providers.

Sam:
With respect to the AD space, we were hearing from a lot of recent trainees, and frankly, a lot of long term veterans that their training and their practices that there’s no place for race in audio description.

TR:
We’re talking about the “old guard” or the established “AD experts”
telling those who want to be inclusive and equitable that there’s no place in AD for that.

They are still out there.
They continue to practice their exclusion, but even worse,
they’re still training others.

Be advised, if your AD training isn’t including cultural competency, you may want to go elsewhere.

Sam:
from the few audio describers of color that we knew that were entering the field or in the field, they were actually being a little bit held back and corrected when they tried to put race. Into the space that was that was not welcoming race in the space. So that was, to us, an aha moment that was like, Okay, well, we know how to, from a theater open doors, but really kick them in and do something about this.

Christopher:
And Sam, I would add the ironic tragedy about that is that these colleagues of color were being put in these spaces for shows that have people of color and then stifled, not to mention that there’s color on the stage, yeah.

Why are you casting me to be in this space, only to not mention why you put me in the space, because there are some very specific choices and intentions on the stage in that space.

Sam:
Yeh, and also being left at home for the classic shows, which what?

Christopher:
Ohhh!

Sam:
There’s a deficit of audio describers in our region, and the audio describers of color were only being used for the shows that had color in them.

— Clock ticking

Christopher:
Then all the stories that Sam and I were experiencing just started bleeding together. And as they came together, Sam and I were able to see more egregious kind of violations of just out and out racism to colleagues who were doing this access work, ableism, doing this access work. So we needed to respond to the demand, but we also needed to take care of our people.

— Music Begins: A repetitive synth that feels like it’s foreshadowing something in the near future.

TR:
They began thinking more about the issues.
Thinking about ways to create a more inclusive space in live theater for their people.

Deaf and disabled performers, interpreters,
Blind AD consultants, disabled consumers…

They began thinking outside the vox!

— Music: The foreshadowing, revealed … a bass drum drop into a driving hip hop beat.

Christopher:
I love poetry. I love the abstractions. I live in that space.

So this idea is twofold. One is language based, and the other one is almost tactile, sensory, visual, the language or the notion of Vox or the voice. And we kind of think about the Latin and how V, O X, as a term is used in voice, Voice of the People, or the Vox.

Well, we want to think outside,

thinking about the voices that are not represented, the voices that are on the margin. So outside of the majority voice.

TR:
Ok, it’s tactile time with T.Reid.

Take your finger… c’mon, go ahead,
take your finger and trace the letter V in the air.

Christopher: :
When we think about the letter V, that depression into the valley and then upward movement out of the valley, that architecture of the V, we think a heart monitor, up down, up down. The humanity comes first. You can talk compliance all you want, but that’s not about the humanity.
Where is the human in this work that we’re doing?

TR:
The letter O.

Christopher: :
Our letter O is not spherical, is not a circle, it is box shaped.

We think about, what’s the frame? What is the frame of the work that the venue or the theater company, the arts company or the person? What’s their frame of reference, in terms of accessibility, we start where the person is at, what’s their world view. And then we have a conversation with you, beginning there.

TR:
And the x?

Christopher: :
We think of the word intersection. We think of a literal intersection, where all identities, experiences, lived experiences, professional experiences, where they intersect.

So we were at that frame box that’s the individual. Now we’re talking about the intersection of identities, assets, in terms of the business that’s an arts organization and the people within it. How can we create some value that circles back to that letter V to make a better human experience, we know that disability is a part of the spectrum of humanity, all in the art space. So that’s the poetry of think outside the vox and what it means to us and how we deploy it.

TR:
Think Outside the Vox is serving;
– the individual as in the audience members
– the professionals or artists and access providers or ASL interpreters and audio describers
– the business as in the arts organizations, theater companies or actual theatrical spaces.

Doing this effectively often requires additional advocacy.
What some might call Accessibility 101 or sensitivity training.

Christopher:
Things that our colleagues are exhausted, explaining to every venue again and again.

So we wanted to be available when called upon by our deaf, disabled and blind colleagues, to be able to go in and do some of that triage work.

TR in conversation with Think Outside the Vox: 23:03
So exactly what does that triage look like?

Christopher:
For ASL spaces and deaf spaces, often there’s a lot of email interchange and there’s a lot of jargon that theater companies email to sign language interpreters that are contractual and transactional, but when it’s working with our Deaf artists, they did not orient our Deaf Artists and our Deaf interpreters to working with the theater venues. So our hearing sign language interpreters were more oriented into the business transactions of the space than our deaf peers were. So when our deaf peers did not respond, or did not respond to the company or the venue the way the venue expected, then there was a lot of ableism and language and reply by email that was going toward the Deaf people such as

well. Are you sure you’re qualified to do this work?
How do I know that the translation is going to be accurate?

These people have lived experience, and their professionals look them up on LinkedIn, and you’ll see that they have more credentials than you. What they have not done is worked with you, and you provided no onboarding scenario for these colleagues who have expertise in accessibility, but you’re providing this orientation and onboarding suite of information and time to all your non disabled artists. HOST, administrators, technicians coming in, but you just want to plug and play the accessibility people as if you order in a pizza.

TR:
Christopher was clear to note that the Deaf artists and interpreters are perfectly capable of advocating for themselves,
but he recognizes the additional labor that they shouldn’t be responsible for taking on.

I find it quite similar to Blind professionals forced to take on extra work to resolve access issues around completing forms or working with inaccessible software.

Sam:
And also in the AD space, it looks like actually mindset change and cultural shift, because it was sort of revolutionary to include a blind expert on the AD team.

It’s rudimentary in the ASL space, there’s usually a director of artistic sign language when it’s being done, right? But our colleagues in the theater spaces were not even considering that they needed a blind expert consultant on the team.

TR:
I imagine perhaps, for some of those unfamiliar with disability,
it may be more persuasive to hear from other non disabled people championing the benefits of
hiring disabled professionals as opposed to hearing directly from disabled professionals themselves.

This additional work, is all extra uncompensated labor and time that can take a toll on your physical and emotional health.

Sam:
then also in the theater spaces, it’s very common to have what they call a primary and a secondary describer. So the primary describer is the action boots on the ground in the moment description, and then the secondary describer is doing the pre show.

The disparity in the pay scale, in those was significant. It was like a 1/3 2/3 pay scale versus the workload was not shared more evenly as well. So we’re trying to make a more equitable model, and, frankly, a better quality model for the AD.

Christopher:
frankly, that was going on in the ASL space. You know, American Sign Language has so much visibility, and I use that word very specifically, whereas the ad work is literally hidden in the back of the room in the dark. Nobody knows it’s happening unless you’re wearing a headset, right? Whereas the ASL space is literally front and center. But that gives us illusion that there’s progressive decision making in that space, but behind the scenes, the paperwork was just as inequitable where our Deaf colleagues were getting a fraction, a third or a fourth of the compensation for showing up doing the same work to assist American Sign Language interpreters like myself, who are not deaf to be able to sign accurately.
Now how much sense does that make if I’m a sign language interpreter with all the credentials of A to Z, I should be proficient in the language. Well, the reality is, most sign language interpreters do not come from a native first language, primary language competency in American Sign Language. That’s why we’re bringing in this deaf what might be the equivalent of a dialect coach or an ASL coach, to make sure that our language in the translation is aligned with what’s on stage.

And these folks are getting paid less, and the sign language interpreters who are not deaf, we’re getting, you know, courtroom level, medical level compensation in terms of rates, and our Deaf colleagues weren’t.

Sam:
We were just in the Kennedy Center Leadership Exchange in arts and disabilities, which is a great space to talk about best practices in Arts Access. And one of the things that we kept hearing that was really upsetting from some practitioners, from some access coordinators at large institutions, was one of the ways they save money is by giving their experts free tickets instead of paying them for their expertise.

Christopher:
Starbucks cards, coffee cards.

Sam:
that makes my blood boil.

TR:
That’s the recipe for making real change.
Step one, bring your blood to a boil.

Then add the rest of the ingredients.

Christopher:
I think Sam, you jumped on that domain name too. It’s not real, unless you have a domain.

TR:
In addition to that domain, ThinkOutsideTheVox.org,
became a 501c3 company in order to raise funds to do this work.

Sam:
So we said, we know how to train, and we need to reach out and find the best trainers in the area that we can.

Sam:
we figured if we wanted gig workers, we had to make it easy for them to learn this skill and to fund it for them and get the grant funding for it.

Sam:
And we’re very lucky in Massachusetts to have the Massachusetts Cultural Council be a partner and a funder and a supporter in a lot of Arts Access. areas.
And so we got an innovation grant from the Massachusetts Cultural Council.

TR:
The training, which weaves in the importance of Blind centered, equitable and
culturally responsive access
throughout the syllabus is just the first step in a very intentional process.

You have to find the participants. Which is often considered difficult, until you think about where to look.

And you can’t understate the importance of the training being free.

Sam:
We reached into areas where we figured we would find great describers. So the Boston black Writers Association, the Asian American playwrights Association, actors of color in our region, BIPOC, AAPI, et cetera, blind consumers of audio description and blind artists, and also the local interpreter pool, because we figured that would dovetail nicely into the audio description work. And we put together our first cohort of trainees and started there.

TR:
The virtual training over multiple weeks, was just the first part.
A key component is what happens after the training.

Members of the cohort were immediately given paid opportunities to write and narrate AD in actual productions with other seasoned professionals.

Welcoming professionals.

Sam:
And then when we were able to run the class a second time, we used the first cohort to train the second group, because there were already 14 describers up and running and working and picking up a lot of the slack of audio description in Massachusetts, because we had a deficit of audio describers to begin with, never mind audio describers who are culturally competent.

TR in conversation with Think Outside the Vox: 35:43
What type of impact did this crew of 14 have on that deficit?

Sam:
with respect to the hard numbers of audio describers of color. Prior to our project, there was one and a half audio describers who were non white, and I say half because one of the audio describers of color went to do more voice over and radio work, and frankly, one blind expert in the field,

Sam:
Modestly speaking, we doubled the number of audio describers that were actively working in live theater.

We definitely increased the capacity of theaters to be able to offer audio description, because there just weren’t enough providers to go around.

TR:
It actually extends beyond audio description in live theater and naturally includes image description in museums as well.

That increase in work opportunities include ASL.

Christopher: :
We were working with a handful of interpreters of color for at least 20 different theater performing arts venues and their seasons.

TR:
A season equates to an average of 3 to 4 productions in the year.
That’s somewhere between 60 and 80 individual productions.

And then there’s the touring productions traveling an hour to an hour and a half away within the state.

Christopher: :
or they’ll cross the line into Rhode Island or Connecticut. The same pool of people are being dispatched there.

So the visibility, especially for the ASL interpreter and the ASL coach space with this handful, has made those venues who cross attend other ASL interpreter shows where there are these interpreters of color. Then they want to poach and grab those ASL interpreters and bring them to other spaces.

Christopher:
Literally, there were a handful of interpreters of color that were actively working in theater performing arts spaces. Now they’re closer to 11 that are working in those spaces. That includes individuals who are deaf.

Christopher: :
Now, generally, people might say, well, that’s not staggering.

there’s less about how many individuals we increased.
I think the numbers are in the demand.

TR:
The more TOV on boards new theaters, the greater the visibility which further increases the demand.

Meaning, the more people are aware and are able to understand and see the benefits of increasing equitable access, the more it is adopted.

The benefits include everyone involved.
* Benefits of AD Cohort

Sam:
From our first cohort of culturally competent audio describers, it increased the workload of the local blind expert, quadrupled her work once we started to teach the industry good practices, to make sure that they were including a blind professional in the audio description work that was like life changing and door opening for this one individual, but also for all the theaters.

One of our actors that was trained, he’s a great orator and writer, but he’s got a toddler at home, so he’s been struggling to keep the acting work and keep food on the table, and by doing the audio description, it’s more finite in time, and he’s able to make bills paid with his child at home. And so it really has been instrumental for the gig economy workers in our region.

TR:
Many of these gig workers fall into one or more marginalized groups.

Christopher: :
There are other colleagues that I’m working with in the sign language space that are able to turn down jobs not out of arrogance, but because the venue hasn’t done their due diligence.

TR:
The venues that weren’t doing the appropriate on boarding or paying equitably.

Today, with workers having more welcoming opportunities , they can now say;
Times UP!

“We’re not working with you until you fix this and show us the respect we deserve.

Christopher: :
it’s been a wake up call.
People come back and say, Hey, Chris Sam, can you help us find this person or that person? Because these other ones actually flat out, turned us down, and we’re able to ask, Well, why?

It’s a different kind of conversation than what it used to be, which was just a lot of our peers calling us and saying they’re causing us damage. They’re causing us trauma.

I think the scales have tipped in the other direction, which is a wonderful problem to have.
TR:
For those who don’t necessarily appreciate the anecdotal, TOV is collecting quantitative metrics as well.

Sam:
Certainly with Open Door Theater, we can take in exactly the metrics of who’s coming to the performances for what access service. But we’re starting to get and collect that information from other theaters, and we’re getting and collecting that information from the patrons who are attending the performances.

What worked, what didn’t work. And we’re also getting the information from our cohorts of audio describers as to what jobs they’re taking, what jobs they’re doing, and the feedback that they’re getting directly from the patrons in the space.

TR:
Keeping focus on the humanity in access continues to guide Sam and Christopher into their future plans for TOV.
Christopher:
When you’re an access provider who is plugged in, brought into content that’s very specific to the lived experience of the provider, whether it’s a August Wilson piece or Baldwin piece, or some of the more contemporary pieces that are black centric or BIPOC centric?

Well, you’re getting saturated in that journey, and a lot of it is trauma written in some of these stories.

So some of the future things that Vox is considering is,

how do we create a respite space and an information resource repository for sustaining our access providers that are exponentially more exposed to trauma because of the content that they’re working on and The frequency they’re working on than some of the artists who are producing the shows themselves.
So we got to sustain our people, not just refer them and plug them in into these spaces.

So some kind of sustainability, resilience, mental health, support and resource for our gig workers is in our future?

Sam:
We’re trying really hard to not be global, national too fast because of capacity and burnout.

We’re trying to make sure that we are sustainable in what we’re doing and creating a model and a blueprint, and then we can work on helping other people distribute that elsewhere.

TR:
In addition to more culturally equitable AD Trainings,
TOV has plans to assist artists to engage with legislators
to assure their needs are properly being met in government.

Sam:
We’re working on an exciting project with the local arts Boston calendar, and they are putting out a calendar that is accessible and sortable by access point, which we’ve needed in the sector so badly, so that want to go see a show that’s interpreted in sign language or audio describe. You can sort by that access point and then the audio description pre show is loaded right into that website, and the ASL blog is loaded right into that website. And you can see who the providers are, because you might be a fan of a certain audio describer or director of artistic sign language.

Every city should have one.

TR:
Every city should have a Sam Gould and Christopher Robinson and Think Outside the VOX!

— Music begins: A bouncy up tempo groove.

TR in conversation with Think Outside the Vox:
You know Sam, Christopher invite folks in, and they share their information with the family.

And so it means that you, Sam, Christopher, are now. You’ve always been, but you are now official Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Sam:
I’ve been waiting for you to make it official for years.

TR:
I know there are some listening who either are in position or in proximity to those who want to make their local theater space much more accessible and do so equitably.

Listen back to this episode or read the transcript… then reach out to TOV!
You can find contact information and more about them as TOV and individually at ThinkOutsideTheVox.org.

We can all head on over to OpenDoorTheaterr.org. Learn more about their work and accessible productions.

Sam:
The next production that the theater is going to do is The Prom, it’s a fun show. It’s got a mission of inclusion, but it’s also got a mission of self advocacy, and don’t foist your agenda or your accommodations on me. So that’s the one we’re looking forward to

TR:
Some times it feels like everything is a fight.

Right now, we’re in the midst of fighting for so called democracy hear in the US. I just want to once again encourage everyone in the states to please exercise your right to vote.

I can’t tell you who to vote for but if you’re listening to this podcast, I hope that means you have both a high level of empathy and intelligence. You care about your fellow human. That combination can only really go one way.

You may not think your specific issues are addressed by either candidate, but I can tell you that one candidate
will ultimately mean your issues will never even be heard.
the other candidate will at the very least assure you have the right to protest her.

Your choice!

Unfortunately, I have to choose to conclude this season of Flipping the Script on Audio Description.

I had a good time producing it and I hope you enjoyed listening and or reading it!
(Shout out to those who read the transcripts)

I may have one or two episodes later this year. So stay tuned and subscribed!
I’d love to put together a celebration of ten years so please
if you feel any sort of way about the podcast or just want to give a shout out,
please as requested in the beginning of this episode, send it in.

I appreciate you all rocking with Reid My Mind Radio, which is available wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcripts and more are available at ReidMyMind.com.

It’s been determined by a landslide that the only way to get there is to make sure you spell it right!

That’s R to the E, I, D!

— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be.” Slick Rick

Like my last name!

— Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace!

Hide the transcript

— Clock Ticking
TR:
–(Yelling in a Filtered, over modulated voice) Times up!

TR:
Well, that was then.

If you’re just tuning in and you don’t know what I’m referring to, please go back and listen to the episode last month titled, Time’s UP!

It’s the latest version of what I’ll call a protest by podcast. My own rage against the machine! That is, the systemic exclusion of narrators of color from audio description.

The episode helps me cope with the feelings; frustration, unfairness, pissed offativity.

— Filtered voice: (Well actually, that’s not a word!)

They know exactly what I’m talking about!

Sometimes you just got to get it out of your system.

today, I’m sticking to the place where I landed. That’s focusing on those who appreciate, respect and promote access that reflects the art of the global majority. Those who believe in tearing down the practice of exclusion in order to create audio description that truly centers the Blind Community… the full, rich, diverse community.

Y’all hear that….
— Birds chirping. begins to raise in volume.

It sounds like a new day is dawning.

I’m Thomas Reid the host and producer of this here podcast…
I told you before; (mischievous hmm) time’s up! There’s a real change underway.

— Reid My Mind Radio Intro

TR:
Allow me to introduce you to the team, out of the UK called Sound Scribe.
First up, Reid My Mind Radio family and alumni, Elaine Lillian Joseph.

Elaine:
I’m a black West Indian woman. Pronouns. She her from Birmingham (Woo!) in the UK. I am in my 30s. Today. I have my hair in a bun, and I wear glasses.
and I’m currently in London, and it’s actually sunny here, which is rare.

TR:
Rare, but fitting.
I told you, it’s the dawning of a new day.

Elaine:
My role in SoundScribe is as a co-founder and principally as an audio describer, also across the kind of project management as well.

So yeah, that’s me. Woo!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
And Elaine brought her own Woo. I like that.

Elaine:
I wasn’t going to wait for the Woo’s.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
I hear you! I bring my woos wherever I go.

TR:
Let’s keep those Woo’s going for Lesta. L E S T A.

Lesta:
I’m an East Asian woman. I’m Chinese, and I’m visually impaired as well. I’m quite pale with freckles. I have long black, sort of waist length hair in a ponytail. I’m always a little bit glamorous. I’m quite petite, athletic, and my pronouns are, she her.
For sound scribe. I’m basically a consultant. So, I comment on the audio description that is provided, or like I come in quite early to help the derivation of the audio description. And I basically complain a lot. I feel that’s my job, but I also comment on the actual performances as well, and the space that they do it in, as well as how they execute it.

TR:
Complaining can also be called quality control.
We’re talking about a member of the target audience who can provide helpful feedback on the script, narration and mix.
Improving the final product before release.

Next, meet Shivaangee.

Shivaangee:
Or you can call me Shiv. My pronouns are they and she and I am a person in my 30s with heritage from India.

I’m kind of light brown skinned, with black hair, dark eyes. I have two nose piercings in my left nostril. I’m wearing a necklace and more earrings, so some jewelry, and a green netted top for the heat today, and freshly, freshly shaved sides to my hair, which feel great.

I co-founded soundscribe with Elaine, though, I’d say Elaine kind of does a little bit more leadership of in a direction we’re going, and I sort of support with that And some of the project management as well.

I’m actually trained and work as a dance artist, and that’s a really fun collaboration to do with Elaine, because I guess I can bring a little bit of the embodied experience of moving and dancing, and Elaine brings a lot of experience in all thing’s audio description.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
shiv, tell me a little bit about how you got into AD.

Shivaangee:
A friend and choreographer called Mira Patel does a lot of work with blind, visually impaired, deaf and hearing-impaired communities in order to understand how Indian classical dance, which is what I’m trained in, and what she’s trained in, can be more accessible for these communities.

So, it was through coming on board to her work that I was trained as an audio describer.

Through that work, I felt like access and accessibility was something I could really relate to on other levels, in other ways that I have experience of marginalization and othering.

I just really deeply connected to the importance of accessibility and how everybody can benefit from disability justice, and it felt like a really foundational area that can inform;
How Indian classical dance can be made more accessible to people who don’t know what Indian classical dance is.
How dance can become more accessible.
How we can start to think about dance without prioritizing the visual sense.
How we can decenter sighted and non-disabled perspectives and dance.

TR:
Shiv isn’t the only dancer in SoundScribe.

Lesta:
I have a background in the arts, so I’m an architect and I’m also a dancer as well at the same time.

I understand space really well, and I understand movement really well.

TR:
Of course Lesta also brings her personal experience with audio description.

Lesta:
When I first became visually impaired as an adult, I started using audio description, and I was just really grumpy about it.

I use audio description with like films and TV and sometimes theater, but it’s just really bad.

I’m just grumpy about the fact that I have to watch so many things that are just really badly described, and therefore I don’t quite understand what’s going on

Because I’m in the UK, it’s called SI, sight impaired, or if your blind, it’s severely sight impaired. I’m Si, so I do have some sight.

It is a choice for me to use my eyes or not.

TR:
Lesta went on to say that the quality really does vary. Sometimes it’s better. But when it’s bad, it’s really bad!

Lesta:
I would prefer to go through the physical pain and also not understanding what’s going on than using audio descriptions.

TR:
Ouch!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
Okay, are you still grumpy today? (laughs) I mean about AD. Have you seen any improvement in the state of audio description and what you’re getting in a movie theater?

Lesta:
The difficulty is that quite a lot of film theaters don’t even provide it. So even if it was well done on a film, it’s not provided so you can’t even access it. I would say that is pretty problematic in the UK.

I use Netflix, and sometimes I go for the audio description. It is getting slightly better, so at least they are doing the work to actually describe it well, I just find it quite robotic, because I feel like audio description is effectively a performance. It’s reflection of the art form that you’re kind of viewing, whether it’s dance or theater, film, TV, it’s all part of the performance trip, because you’re kind of describing what you’re viewing.

It has to marry.

TR:
That’s a union between the content and the audio description.

— Sound of a door locking with a wooden latch.

— Music begins, a “house’ inspired, upbeat bouncy bass drum, with crescendo reverse cymbals and finger snaps as snares.

TR:
Now that we’ve met the individuals, let’s find out how they became SoundScribe.

Elaine:
so me and Shiv actually go back to Uni, and then a mutual friend of ours basically put us in touch, and was like, you’re an audio describer and you’re an audio describer.

Me and Shiv went to a dance event that was about audio description and then we went to a pub, and then we just bitched and complained.

Oh, we really have a lot in common, as audio describers, basically, but specifically as audio describers who aren’t white. So I really took a lot of solidarity from that, and I just felt like I had so many ideas, and it was really great to be able to have someone else who shared those ideas.

We joined forces, and we’ve kind of been growing since then.

TR:
Joining forces based on philosophies, yeh, I can get with that!

Elaine:
I really felt like we were just so aligned in terms of the philosophy we already had individually for our practices as audio description wanting to find like minded people. For me, it was really important to bridge that gap at that time, on a personal level, between the work that I was doing but also the audience that I was doing that work for.

At the time, I was working in TV, and I just really felt like to grow as an audio describer, I needed to be in contact with more blind folk, but also to grow as a art form, as a practice.

I just felt like that was the kind of missing key for me.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
What was it that made you feel as though it was important to be in contact with the community. So being in community, why was that important?

Elaine:
I guess I felt like the guidelines that I was given and that I kind of trained under, which are perfectly fine, but I just really felt like they had been shaped by sighted people, and that at some point it felt like maybe, maybe those voices had been lost and that voice just hadn’t Been really updated.

So I found that I was having conversations like when I was first on your podcast, we were just talking about describing race, for example, and just this idea that, like for blind users, that there’d be, like a default conception of who we’re describing, and that default is white. And I really felt like if we just had some voices who were Blind and people of color, then we would just cut through this need to have these endless conversations. I just really felt like, if these people were just in the room, then things would move so much faster.

With any craft, it just makes sense to include the end users as part of the production of the art.
I just think it utterly enriches it.
I think it cuts through any kind of biases that I will definitely have as like a sighted person. It broadens the kind of perspective of the audio description as well, like working. With you. Leicester is such a joy, because, literally, every single project I learned something new.

Leicester’s just pulled a really, a really sweet pose just highlight how angelic they are.

Lesta:
As a person that is both POC and disabled, I felt quite heard to be involved in the company as well, because existing as an intersectional person you’re effectively like an other of an other, and usually you’re sort of forgotten in many different kind of groups, because you’re kind of categorized as not quite that person in multiple ways. So usually your voice is forgotten.

So this was quite interesting, because my role and a bunch of other blind people was to just complain about stuff, and because I complained about stuff in a very ethnic way as well then I think they probably just picked up on it as well. So they’re kind of bitching in the cafe. Is the sort of the same mentality I have. So, yeah, it was just really wonderful to be heard. So thank you.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
I want to keep my facts straight. That wasn’t a cafe, that was a pub!

Lesta:
pub, yes,

Elaine:
exactly.

TR:
Y’all picking up on this idea of bitching or complaining?

It’s identifying the problems. As Lesta noted, it’s centering your full experience as a consumer.
Two different consumers with varying backgrounds will more than likely have two separate experiences, that’s cool! What’s not cool is deciding that one is the standard.

So my urging to the community… complain away!

First we complain, then we make change.

— Sound of two glasses clinking in a bar as in a toast!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
Okay, so let’s move into your philosophy, your approach to audio description.

Elaine:
I was just thinking about some of the words that might really motivate us.
One of them is
generative.

So the idea that audio description can actually generate art.

For example, audio description led movement workshops. Sometimes they’re like, warm ups or warm downs, and often in those workshops, choreography is created with the cast, with the choreographer, with the rehearsal director, and then sometimes that choreography even makes it into the show itself, which is the most exciting outcome of those kinds of workshops.

So really seeing audio description as a catalyst for performance making.

TR:
Elaine, Lesta and Shiv make up the core of SoundScribe, but part of their philosophy is to work with all sorts of folks from the Blind community.

Elaine:
Providing consultancy, training, providing sustainable jobs as well.
for example, sound engineers.

We work with a full range of different people, but wanting that to be focused as like blind led a big thing for us is anti objectivity, and by that, like we don’t ever want to kind of patronize anybody. We’re not making audio description that tells people how to think, but we do want to be proud and open about our subjectivity in our work.

That’s what feels really exciting about this.
Collaboration and creating something that is global majority led, and anti ableist as well.

Elaine:
So as Shiv mentioned, de centering sight as the primary way of accessing art.

Just trying to think about different ways of accessing art.

TR:
That can mean getting the artists, the content makers to think about the Blind audience, before the content is made.

Elaine:
When we come in from the beginning as audio describers, from the beginning of whatever the project is, it might be like a film that hasn’t been filmed yet. It might be a painting that hasn’t been painted, or a dance show.

We can help to shape a piece of art that is from the beginning thinking about blind and visually impaired people.

The exciting element for me working now within SoundScribe, is getting to work on shows that I actually want to go and see not working at the end, where we have a fixed product and we have to mold or do description to fit in, because then basically 10 times out of 10 that project has not been created with blind people in mind.

coming in from the beginning, I think is a really big part of our ethos, and sort of really privileged actually, to have found enough artists that also want to work in that way.

Shivaangee:
In contrast to a lot of audio describers currently out there, I think we also want to kind of treat audio description as a practice rather than just a service. So by practice we mean that it’s like a live and evolving thing where Elaine I and Lesta are well, and especially Elaine and I are kind of constantly re evaluating, like, well, what are the goals of this? What are the principles underpinning this? What are we trying to get to? What’s our ideal vision? So there’s a sense of it being a dynamic thing that is not just a fixed service, but we evolve as audio describers, and we evolve the way we do things, but also in terms of practice. It’s like a holistic thing. It informs our principles of;
how we work.
how we are with each other
how we work with the artist
what kind of things we’re advocating for beyond just having audio description,

And that feels maybe quite important to our philosophy as a collective.

TR:
Think of SoundScribe as providing tailored, custom AD. They measure each individual project separately and design the AD experience based on the objectives of the content.

It feels like it really serves the art. Enabling the SoundScribe team to grow as artists themselves.

Shivaangee:
We have so many conversations with new clients, where by just speaking to a potential new client about their work and what they’re creating that we get excited about. Oh my gosh, we could actually offer a completely different kind of audio description for this work.

That’s another reason why Elaine and I work so well, as we get really excited about the possibilities of things we have not actually tried yet and have not experienced in terms of audio description.

(Shivaangee:
We did a project where we trialed for the first time having audio descriptions that’s actually takes a format of a dialog between Elaine and myself, rather than a one person scripted thing. So the thing that people were listening to was a. Conversation between Elaine and I as we were in the audience watching the show.

We’re developing a methodology for improvised audio description, because actually, we’re finding that improvised audio description works a lot better for dance shows that are more improvised than set choreography.

So I guess it’s also being really curious and open and excited about pushing ourselves in terms of what we can offer, and not letting ourselves kind of fall short of the possibilities that might exist.

Lesta:
It’s performative, it’s an art form, and it’s responsive to the art form that you’re trying to describe. So if the dance performance was improvised, then the way you describe it has to be improvised, because you have no idea what they’re going to move like. So that’s a skill in itself.

Shivaangee”
And requires a different kind of preparation and a different kind of contact with the creative team.

TR:
You might be wondering if this customized approach, where SoundScribe is wearing their subjectivity on their sleeve affects their clientele.

Elaine:
Shiv is smiling!

Shivaangee:
I’m ready for this response. Elaine,

Elaine:
We are very intentional about who we work with and what kinds of projects we want to work with. And we’re very aware, alert to language, for example, if we’re going to work with this client, then they are anti ableist and they are anti racist, and they really, truly understand what those two words mean and why it matters to us in the world of accessibility.

I feel quite lucky that we’ve found so many artists that we do want to work with in this way, and that a lot of the work that we’re doing is quite experimental audio description.

We’re not really doing much traditional theater shows. A lot of it really is, like quite Avant Garde in terms of our clients. So that feels really great.

Shivaangee:
There’s so much to say about the intersection of race and disability. I’m just like, where do we begin?

Thomas, I was listening to some of your podcasts, and I think you speak really eloquently about being black and blind. It’s really refreshing to hear someone speaking about that intersection, because I guess we want to work with people who understand what anti racism is and how like intersectionality, like manifests in disability.

You can still bring whiteness with you if you’re disabled, you can be making an accessible piece of work that’s actually not that culturally accessible to people of color.

I guess I feel inspired by giving artists of color the opportunity to create really accessible work that is accessible for disabled people.

I guess I have qualms about disability justice also being led often by white people. So it’s really inspiring and satisfying when we can work to bring high quality, accessible work to artists of color.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
Have you ever been in a situation where you’re approached by someone and they don’t meet your requirements. Are you? Like, we can’t work with you.

Shivaangee:
that happens quite frequently, and quite unsurprisingly, we get a sense of that very quickly.

We’ll get a sense of, this is not going to work out. It’s thankfully, often quite obvious.

Sometimes we have a sense of like we could work with this client. Not everybody’s going to be in the same place when it comes to justice and understanding your practice of justice.
And often we have a conversation around we could work with this client, it will probably be a bit challenging for us in these ways, and we might have to do some reiterating of these principles and education. But then Elaine and I turn to each other and we’re like, do we have the capacity for that right now? Or, like, does the remuneration of this project allow for that kind of work to be done? And if not, then fuck it that’s they can choose someone else.

Lesta:
from my perspective, sometimes it’s quite a good thing to actually partake in these sorts of things. I’m quite hardened, so my viewpoint is like, one way to deal with this sort of thing is to explode it from the inside, you know, once you’re in, just start having a go, see what happens. You know, because then they’re not used to it.

They obviously want to listen or have the good intention to it’s just that they’re not at that right place quite yet.

— Clock ticking

TR:
I’m telling y’all… times up!

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
So you raised two projects, and I want to talk about that.
I’m very interested in the dialog AD. Can we start there?

Elaine:
so that’s a show that we’re actually going to do again, and I’m really, really excited, because hopefully we can come back with, like, basically, bigger, better tech.

It’s a really good example of an artist and producer who just got the vision from the beginning. They were like, such, yes, people anything that we needed, and that was the first time that we’d worked with Lesta as well.

It’s called Impact Driver. The artist is called Eve Stanton. And that was a show that featured live welding with a huge, massive welding container. It’s really awesome. I think five to six performers very, very improvised. Lots of solo work, duet work, writhing with metal to live musicians on opposite ends of the venue, playing guitar. So it was quite a loud experience, and because of where the container was, it meant that me and Shiv basically needed to be on opposite ends, especially because the performers were roaming, and you’d never know actually which path they take.

TR:
Ah, the idea of improvised AD makes even more sense in these circumstances.

Elaine:
It was also a really good example of leading ad workshop. It meant that the entire cast, then totally got it. They were like, Oh, this is what audio description is. They also started to think about their own choreography from a linguistic sense as well.

How can we name the things that we’re doing, which is really helpful for us, because that’s its own kind of audio description.

I would describe what I could see say in the front half of the stage, including in the welding container. And then Shiv was behind that, also describing. If a performer roamed beyond my sight line, then basically, Shiv would take over.

Performing it live, was really exhilarating.

Terrifying before the show starts, and then this calm just kind of descend, and you just go for it.

It felt really, dare I say punk. because the whole show felt really punked as well. So it was a kind of like loud, messy audio description.

Leicester came in at a super, super messy, moment, because we hadn’t actually tested hours at that point. And, yeah, it was really great.

I think we had maybe four or five visually impaired people who came along to that trial run and gave us some really, really invaluable feedback before the actual show.

Shivaangee:
Most of it was in darkness as well and four different speakers around the room. So it was very intense environment, even as a sighted audience member.

TR:
Sounds like another one of those situations where the AD could serve a broader audience.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
How are you all thinking about possibly using the back and forth aspect of it?
Are you thinking about ways where you can bring that into something else?

Shivaangee:
So we’re in conversations with a new client that we’ve not worked with before, and the work that they’re creating is all about visibility and invisibility of queerness, and it uses kind of a mirror and like a gray board as two key props in the work, where they use illusion and disappearing as A metaphor for their exploration.

There’s like the middle of the audience where you’ll get the Perfect Illusion. And then if you’re sitting anywhere, that’s not the middle of the audience, you will not benefit from that Perfect Illusion. So now they’re thinking, as they’re getting into staging, well how do we navigate this fact that 80% of the audience is not going to get our Perfect Illusion?

So in our conversation with them about audio description, we all came up with the idea of Elaine and I roaming the sets and kind of audio describing to each other, what we can see and what we can’t see as a way of really leaning into this thing of you’re not going to get a perfect view of what’s happening, and each person is going to get a slightly different view of the illusion.

They got really excited about how it can actually support their work and support this whole illusion that they’re trying to problem solve.

Lesta:
I think it’s like, the more different projects that basically you’re involved in, essentially, you can test out different ways of doing stuff. And if the clients are open, then you can just try it. It’s very experimental and very trial based. It’s quite exciting in that respect, because it’s the development of audio description as a entity that can be informed into sort of the general consensus as well.

Shivaangee:
We’re talking about the really optimistic experiences we’ve had where people, as Elaine said, have been like, yes, producers and yes, artists who have been like, we love this. We love the experimental, creative potential, body description. Let’s go all out. But I feel like that’s definitely not status quo in the industry and a lot of people just simply don’t have the budget.
They don’t have the capacity, time wise, in their creation schedule to give us that much play time.

So I’d say just to balance out, we do bump into a lot of no’s as well that like that sounds great for the future, but for this time round, we have this many days and this much money and this to work with.

It feels important to also name that these are optimistic scenarios where we find these wonderful artists,

TR:
Reality checks are necessary.

But these artistic, experimental projects will inevitably make their way into the mainstream.
Not all at once or as radical, but rather small aspects of them will show up here and there.

Access doesn’t have to be solely functional.
It can go beyond the access and do more.

Lesta:
When me and Shiv did many lifetimes, she sat next to me, and we were testing her audio description, and I was sort of saying, Oh, but like, and it was improvised as well. So she did a really great job in general. But like, they were like, seven dancers, and they all had really different characters and the way they moved, because I can still use some of my site, and I can still understand the blobs in front of me, sort of So I was like, this person kind of looks like a martial artist. He’s, like, really dynamic. This guy’s like, all over the place, like roaming around outside of this, the room and everything. And this one is kind of like really intimate, because it was all about grief, the whole the whole piece. And I said, you know, maybe the way you describe it, in your language and in how you deliver it can be different, depending on the solo, because it’s describing their intention of demonstrating grief of death in a very, very personal way. That was an example of, you know, like how the how audio description can be an art form itself, like that.

Shivaangee:
I remember you saying you wouldn’t have necessarily have come to watch the show if we hadn’t brought you as a consultant.

That makes Leicester’s work even more impressive.
In that show there wasn’t any explicit sense that each person was a character. It was a very personal, autobiographical kind of context each of these solos. So there’s actually Lesta picking up, as we were kind of speaking to each of the artists, and Lesta was there. Lesta picked up. And actually, don’t you think they all have quite different personalities, and they have different ways of manifesting in the space. Maybe we can start to assign certain characteristics in the way that you’re even describing them and the tone of voice you’re using, which was really insightful given that this is not the kind of work necessarily that you would choose to see or like choose to enjoy.

Lesta:
Otherwise, no, no. I mean, you know, also there was some sort of difficulties in the space as well. So, I was able to suggest things like, just generally in the actual building itself, because of my architectural background, but also in the space itself.

I think it helped anybody that else would like to come see it actually. You know, in terms of watching Dance, I used to love watching dance performances all the time after my site is progressive, basically, but I watch, I don’t really like watching things now, just because it’s, it’s, it’s not that accessible. And dance specifically is not very accessible, but it is becoming more so because of different. Methodologies. And so it’s actually getting more joyful to be able to go see these things. I think a lot of vision impaired people feel like that, like, you know, dance is just not an art form they can enter into or have a look at. But because it’s being done in this sort of experimental way, I think that’s very appropriate and like quite useful.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
great to hear. That’s great, especially coming from you Lesta, because you keep saying you’re grumpy.

I’m saying you’re not grumpy.

Shivaangee:
Though, I love that we using grumpy as like a euphemism.

Lesta:
It’s a very British word.

— Transition

TR:
I’m excited for SoundScribe. They recognize what’s really important to them. Like , community!

Elaine:
I don’t think we’re looking to explode in numbers at all. I really like the kind of intimacy of our collaboration.
There are many people who we collaborate with that people won’t necessarily know about.
There are so many sound engineers that we work with, ESL interpreters, other consultants. It’s such a beautiful network.

TR:
The importance of going beyond the work and supporting one another.

Elaine:
Lesta’s taking us out jazz dancing, which I’m very excited about.

Shivaangee:
Lesta is an incredible jazz dancer, yeah, so we can’t wait to, like, experience Leicester in that capacity as well.

Lesta
Oh I hyped up too much.

TR in conversation with SoundScribe:
I have a feeling Lesta is going to show and prove.

TR:
The value in dreaming.

Elaine:
My dream would be to bring on another narrator, maybe, or scripter who is blind?

TR:
The importance of equity.

Elaine:
I think there needs To be an industry shift.
For example, with theaters, they tend to work with the same people.
The way that I personally moved into that sector was through recommendations from other people who were working in those theaters basically and couldn’t do a job, and then passed it on.

It is definitely quite cliquey in the UK. I don’t think that venues will really take a risk on a new person unless they come with a recommendation, and those recommendations are from mostly white, middle class women.
I think there’s a bit of gatekeeping in the industry, even when people are trained, even when you have a whole cohort, there could be like 20 of us that are all trained and ready to go, then the door is kind of already shut.

I feel like no one really wants to kind of admit that, because then you have to give up work. It’s a hard economy, people are scared.
They don’t want to do that.

TR:
It doesn’t have to be just a dream.

(Elaine:
I would love for us to just get a bunch of funding and train some people. And also join forces with a venue so that we are guaranteed we are the in house audio describers, and now we’re going to bring in seven different people who are all going to get to have a go at what you’re describing, that to me would be like, Yeah, that’ll be a future goal.

We’ve got many plans, Thomas, we’ve got plans!

Shivaangee:
I think the discourse is also important. I don’t know what it’s like in the US, but in the UK, there’s just so much tiptoeing around race. People will not talk about it unless you bring it up.
It’s really important just to keep naming that, just to keep bringing white people’s attention to race.

Are you employing anybody else in your creative team that’s not white?
Often we are the only people on the wide creative team that are global majority.
and sadly, it’s kind of important to keep naming it for people so that they are aware of the subjectivities they’re bringing into the work and who they’re giving opportunities too.

TR:
And finally, recognizing the importance of gratitude.

Elaine:
I feel really, really lucky to be in this space.

TR:
I couldn’t let the conversation end without asking Lesta, about her thoughts on some current AD topics.

I really liked her perspective on how TTS further reduces that human connection and how important that is especially after vision loss.

Lesta:
When you start to lose your sight, you start to lose not just your sight, but the sociability associated with it, the connection to other humans, looking at each other, knowing where everyone knows and everything, and not being able to maybe go out as much or do stuff as you wanted to you used to, especially those who weren’t born blind. So the connection to a human is really desirable. And you know, going to shows and having a sort of live audio description or like someone speaking, you start to get that kind of connection. Because when you actually go to a show as a sighted person, you go to a show live because you want to be connected to, say, the dancer or the art, the actor in front of you. Otherwise you just watch it on TV.

TR:
Even the technology of closed audio description can affect that connection for Lesta.

Lesta:
When I wear a headset, it just cuts out my ability to understand the background noise and the footsteps of the dances, the sound of wind as they move past. These are the things that you lose that are like humanistic so I tend to veer away from technology.
in terms of audio description, I prefer to be present in the space.

TR:
And, on the subject of authentic representation in AD narration?

Lesta:
Well, that is an interesting topic, isn’t it?

If you go back again to the fact that it’s a performance, I would say that it’s a reflection of the art form. So it has to be appropriate and relevant, it’s performative. It’s not just like a service at the end where you’re just saying a load of stuff that’s describing the whole art piece.

TR:
While she is all in for cultural appropriate casting, she identifies the related problem faced by narrators of color in audio description.

Lesta:
And actually, every profession under the sun, not just audio description.

A person of color, is quite often put in a box, pigeonholing in the UK, so you only do these types of jobs. I feel like that with race, but I also feel like that with my visual impairment. Like, it’s intersectional as well, right?

A person of color or a person who is disabled can work in these specific type of fields, where it’s culturally competent and appropriate, but also can work in other aspects of everything. So Elaine can go and do her Marvel show. That’s totally cool like if she wanted to, because the thing is, is that it’s about like ability as well. These two women are great audio describers. It’s not like there’s nothing to do with their ethnicity or the way they look, it’s just their skill level. So they should be appreciated for that.

TR:
Well, I can tell you I appreciate Elaine, Lesta and Shivaangee… SoundScribe!

If you’re in the UK and want to work with SoundScribe or just let them know you think they’re dope, head on over to there website

SoundScribe.co.Uk.

TR in Conversation with SoundScribe:
Well, Elaine, you already know Lesta Shiv after every episode, for those who come onto the podcast and they share their information, they share their time and share with the family, I gotta let y’all know that you’re now an official part of the Reid My Mind Radio Family!

Shivaangee:
Thank you so much for inviting us into this conversation. It was a privilege.

TR:
I really enjoyed that conversation.

I have a feeling we’ll be hearing more from SoundScribe in the future. They’re doing cool stuff and our philosophies are aligned.

Anti racist, anti ableist… anti hate!

You can’t say you want the world to be those things without being intentional. So what are you doing in your space?

Let me know!

Hit me up at ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

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You know, we have transcripts and more over at ReidMyMind.com.

Only one way to get there…
I’m mean, you can take a car and put your luggage in the boot, take the tube, or ride the lift to the top floor,
but you’ll still need to spell it right….

that’s R to the E I D!

— Sample: “D! And that’s me in the place to be”, Slick Rick

Like my last name
— Reid My Mind Outro

Peace!

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