Posts Tagged ‘Audio Description’

The Art of Access with Cheryl Green

Wednesday, March 27th, 2019

The camera catches Cheryl & Cynthia from a jaunty angle. Cynthia holds a beautiful plaque for Superfest Disability Justice Award for New Day Films’ Who Am I To Stop It. The plaque has text, Braille, and raised lettering. Cynthia smiles at Cheryl as she burst into excited laughter at the passer-by who shouted “Superfest, whoo!” she holds a bouquet of sunflowers by her face.

Meet Cheryl Green, a filmmaker focusing on disability identity and culture and making media accessible.

She began making films after acquiring disabilities from brain injury. Her media combine personal narrative and activism to create
dynamic tools that critically challenge misconceptions and stereotypes of disability, celebrate pride in disability experiences, and amplify marginalized
voices. Cheryl works to create a platform for people to use the arts to increase connectedness and to promote dialogue and change within the larger community.

Hear why Cheryl views Captions and Audio Description as an artistic part of the film/media and a means of achieving disability justice and equity.

Her latest film Who Am I To Stop it is a documentary on isolation, art, and transformation after brain injury.

She’s a fellow Association of Independence in Radio New Voice Scholar… hit play below and hear how that worked out for yours truly!

Listen

Resources

Transcript

Show the transcript

TR:

Audio: “Fellow Americans, it’s with the utmost pride and sincerity that I present this recording …” PSA, Jay Z (Just Blaze)
— Beat rides underneath…

TR:

Welcome back to another episode of Reid My Mind Radio.

Audio: “Allow me to reintroduce myself, my name is…” PSA, Jay Z

TR:

T.R E I D, Moving podcasts by the GB!

. I’m your host and producer of this podcast.
Bringing you stories and profiles of compelling people impacted by all degrees of vision loss and disability. Plus, I occasionally explore my own experience around becoming blind as an adult. I try to present that in my own way blending my words with audio and sound design.

Before we get into it, you know movin’

Audio: “Moving’ doin’ it you know” Sex machine, James Brown

I want to send a shout out to those of you who subscribe to the podcast. I truly appreciate you. That simple act of hitting that subscribe button especially if you subscribe via Apple Podcast, increases the chances for others to discover the show.

Audio: Music stops…

I don’t know why, that’s just what they do!..

Music re-starts…

One of my main goals of producing this show is to hopefully reach those who are new to the experience of blindness, low vision, vision loss I think the people across the Atlantic refer to it as sight loss. Maybe you are recently experiencing some form of disability. I think there’s something for you here.

It’s a shift in attitude that is not based on changing just to change but it’s based on experience. Experience from people who have been where you are right now and worked their way through it. People who accepted what they were given, people who didn’t feel the need to overcome but rather embrace and continue.

Hmmm!

If you are new to disability let me send you a very warm welcome. A virtual hug going out to you. I’m referring to anyone impacted by disability. Whether you are Blind or Low Vision or maybe you are the spouse, parent or child or even the friend of… we got something for you right chere. And yes, I said right chere!

So with all of that said, I hope you are ready because I want to introduce you to a new friend of mine who brings a different perspective to how we view accessible media content.

I just hyped myself up and I hope you can feel it too!

Let’s go!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Intro

# Cheryl Intro

My name is Cheryl Green. I am an independent documentary producer and audio producer.

TR:

She’s also a strong advocate and maker of accessible media content including subtitles, captions and audio description.

As an independent film maker, we see that’s just one of the unique perspectives she brings to her work.

# On Disability

[TR in conversation with CG:]
What is your relationship with disability?

CG:

I like that question. It’s so much nice and more nuanced then what’s your disability and what’s your diagnosis because disability experience is so much more than medical diagnosis.

One of my relationships to disability is political. I’m always looking at cultural and political things from a disability rights and disability justice platform. Another relationship is that almost all of my friends and significant people in my life are disabled people. And then because I like things in three’s; my relationship to disability is that I have multiple invisible disabilities, but I’m not sure that invisible makes sense as a term. Non-apparent or easy to hide. Some of them are acquired and some are stuff that I was born with that has shown up later in life from kind of living as a knucklehead and now it’s coming up. Laughs.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Laughs…

Oh boy there’s a lot of stories right there. In that one statement, living as a knucklehead. Oh boy!

CG:

Laughing…

But it’s funny because that’s the one that I was born with. It’s a connective tissue disorder and for me it’s very mild , but I have dislocations and I have chronic pain chronic tendonitis, ligaments that are over stretched. I was born with it. The knucklehead part is that I over did it as an athlete through most of my life. So just chronic injuries and stuff but it’s nothing as fun and exciting as you know…what did she do?

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Laughs…

# Captioning

## TR:

Cheryl also experienced a Traumatic Brain Injury that she says is indirectly related to the complications of the connective tissue disorder.

Our conversation however, focused on accessible media content. Beginning first with captioning.

Now I know most of you listening are way smarter than me but I needed a clarification between sub titles and captions.

CG:

Subtitles are just a typed out version of what people are saying. It’s just words on the screen as the words are being spoken. Captions also provide descriptions of the sounds music, whether there’s traffic going by, dogs barking. When possible you can add in a description like whispering or tense voice . There’s all sorts of descriptors you can add in there.
They should identify who’s speaking and when the speaker switches.

The thing about subtitles is that they actually assume that it’s only hearing audiences watching a film that has subtitles because there’s no indication when the speakers change. And if you’re looking at a sunrise and two people are off screen talking and you just see sentence after sentence after sentence there’s actually no way to know who’s talking and when the speaker’s switching. And to me I don’t see how you can follow what’s happening if you don’t know when the different people are talking.

TR:

Maybe you can’t tell yet, but this subject has a special place in her heart. It’s not just about words on the screen.

CG:

I love captioning more than anything else that I do. One thing that I love about captioning is that it is so precise, detailed, tedious and repetitive. That just works for me.

I look at captioning as part of the art. I do not think of it as a piece of accessibility that you have to add or want to add at the end. To me it’s artistic. Translating things. I can’t literally caption every single sound that is in a piece of art. That doesn’t make sense it’s not even possible. So I have to make creative decisions based on what I think it most important from the creator’s perspective and what I think audiences will want to get from something. I don’t want to be like “Speaks slowly, whispers quietly, birds chirp” I want it to be rich and lush especially when the film or the show is rich and lush. I feel like it’s my duty to make the captions as interesting and beautiful and artistic as the film is.

For me captioning is something that I can do in a move towards justice and equity. It is access to information. Whether that’s the news or pure entertainment or something that’s informational or somethings that’s on a social issue. it’s about equity. It’s not just about meeting compliance. I love doing it and I love what it can bring to people and how it can include more people in media and in conversations.

# Audio Description

TR:
Captioning eventually led Cheryl to find an additional way to make media more inclusive and engaging.

CG:

Through one more piece of access that’s very artistic , very subjective and hopefully integrate it into the art itself.

TR:

Maybe that’s not the way you’re used to thinking about or even hearing Audio Description discussed. . but that’s what she’s talking about.

Cheryl recalls first thinking about AD after providing captions for a client and then reading their Facebook post which read;
CG:
“Hey my video has captions now it’s accessible to everyone!”

## TR:

This just wasn’t true!

CG:

You have to be able to read quite well and quite quickly to follow captions. No, captions are not accessible to all people because not everybody can read in whatever given language there in but also I looked at that and thought well these captions are just visible on screen and if you’re not
looking at the captions there not there.

TR:

There’s all sorts of benefits gained from captioning and Audio description. And not just for the consumer.

CG:

I think it takes a lot to acknowledge you know what, I made a great film here but I recognize that not everybody can access it because of the way I made it.

There’s a big piece of acknowledging this film is not complete until more people can come in.

From a capitalistic sense if you have great content and you want an audience why not make your content available to a bigger audience. It just makes sense.

But I hate capitalism so I do also value more of a disability justice and social justice and equity lens to say people need to be participating in civic engagement, arts, culture, entertainment and all of it. And What can I do to make that more accessible and available to more people.

# Film

TR:

She’s answering that question from multiple points of view. That’s a Caption & Audio Description provider and as a film maker.

Following the brain injury which impacted her ability to cook as well as organize she did what anyone would do;

CG:

I made a comedy film about it and it took off.

Audio: “Cooking with Brain Injury”

TR:
Okay, maybe that’s not what everyone does.

That first film was called “Cooking with Brain Injury”

A short film looking at daily struggles of life after traumatic brain injury with dark, honest humor.

CG:

I sold many copies of it. I’ve taken it to state and national speech therapy conferences. I’ve done Continuing Ed. trainings around it and it was totally impairment based. It was a window into my world.

TR:

After other films around brain injury, she decided it was time to close that window.

Audio: window closing

CG:

I realized I need to get out of the spotlight and get behind the camera and do more. Over the years my films have become much less about impairment and much more about disability experience, marginalization, self-empowerment, autonomy and decision making. I do a lot of cross disability work now. It was all brain injuries in the beginning but that didn’t hold my attention because it can be so impairment focused.

TR:

Cheryl’s first film didn’t start out with Captions or Audio Description.

CG:

I didn’t know about access at all when I started, but as soon as I found out I could copy down the spoken words and put them up on the screen; it didn’t look good , but those words were on the screen. And I loved it!
Then I got educated about Captioning software

TR:
She became quite serious about the craft.

CG:

I read up on the FCC guidelines. I love it when the FCC issues new guidelines new recommendations. I’m there with those white papers reading them to make things the best that I can.

I have seen some people criticize the FCC guidelines for example saying, “I don’t care what the guidelines are I want to know what Deaf people want.”

Number one, Captions are not just for Deaf people. There’s a lot of different kind of people who want and need Captions.

Number two, there were Caption users on the committee that wrote the FCC guidelines.

They’re really good guidelines . They make for beautiful Captions They included actual consumers actual Caption users in their creation and that’s another reason I really value them.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

You really are a Caption nerd! Laughs…

CG:

Laughs… I’m such a nerd!

TR:

Deep passion for a given subject. That’s what separates the nerds from the rest.

In this case, the passion is all about inclusion, social justice and equity.

CG:

I have a lot of clients a lot of filmmakers who come to me for captioning and they have a lot of complaints about the way captions look. Or they make requests that I find unreasonable. They’re unreasonable because they are centering that hearing filmmaker who doesn’t actually know what Captions are or can’t really articulate what Captions are for. And I say, your aesthetics around Captions are not what I’m working with. I am working to serve Caption users and I have very explicit reasons why I make the choices that I make. I’ll negotiate with you. I’ll talk with you on the phone but you have to understand that Caption users come firsthand I’m not interested in your aesthetic choices around the Captions.

If you want access you would make captions the most accessible that I know how to make. I get into fights with people all of the time and it’s so much fun!

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Laughs!

TR:

Don’t worry, know one’s out here recklessly out starting fights. This is all about advocating for the user.

CG:

IF content creators always included Caption users and Audio Description users in their minds and their target audience then it wouldn’t be a thing. But it’s specifically because people whether it’s willfully or they just have somehow remained oblivious through their careers, they don’t even consider people who would benefit from the access as part of their target audience. That’s why I harp on it . I would love to get to a place where it’s just we have to do color correction, we have to do sound sweetening, we have to trim off 35 seconds on this, we have to add the Audio Description. Boom, boom,boom boomboom!

When it’s just part of the practice, yeh, I won’t have to be so political and I won’t enjoy fighting with people. But until we’re at that day for whatever reason I enjoy being super fired up and political about it.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

The order in which you laid that out where you said ok, they have to do some color correction, do this and let’s add Audio Description. I want that thought about in the writing because to me the end result would be better. I still think that when it comes to things like Audio Description and Captions, there’s a charity model that starts off the process.. Let’s do this because you know (the following said mockingly) it’s a good thing to do for the people. Let’s give this to them so they can be happy.

If they thought about it has what you said which is it’s going to make our film better Not just because more people are seeing it but it actually may do something better to the film Meaning, if you think about Audio Description at the time of writing it at the time of producing that film chances are you’re going to think of something that’s going to enhance it.

CG:

Oh, hundred percent! Oh my gosh, I just got interviewed yesterday they were like what’s the one take home message that you 3want filmmakers to have.

I say, you put access in your budget in the pre-production phase. You put it in your budget so there’s no “oh we didn’t know”. And then you always consider it. You don’t just get the supplementary footage or the daily footage.

There’s kind of this idea that you find something beautiful you hold the camera on it for at least 10 seconds, get a good shot. You know what? Do it for 40 seconds because then when we’re editing there’s the opportunity to say let’s stretch out this shot a little more because then we can put the Audio Description in.

I am totally with you that if you are considering this stuff from the beginning you’re going to film it differently. You’re going to edit it differently. It is going to be better.

TR:

This is coming from an experienced film maker.

CG:

When I filmed my documentary and I was still new to this, I told my Director of Photography, “Don’t ever do extreme close ups. Ever” I don’t want any extreme close ups. Even with the mouth off to the side because we are going to have captions in every version of this film ever shown. I told the Editor, “I need you to put in spots, stretched out spots where Audio Description can come in.”

Now unfortunately I wasn’t trained in Audio Description back then, and so we didn’t nail that as well. We didn’t have enough stretched out spaces and the Audio Description isn’t as lush as it could be.

We did some re-editing and we added in more space. I re-wrote the script, the original Audio Description script, hired other voices to do it. As you watch my film progress over time the same film different versions Audio Description becomes more lush, more engaging more honest because now I understand Audio Description a little better. So there were things that were a little vague in the description.

TR:

For many such re-writes would feel like a chore.

Like her latest production, “Who AM I to Stop it”, a documentary film on isolation, art, and transformation after brain injury, was selected for Superfest International Disability Film Festival.

The longest running disability film festival in the world – co-hosted by San Francisco’s Lighthouse and the
Longmore Institute on Disability at San Francisco State.

Superfest is one of the few festivals worldwide that is accessible to disabled filmgoers of all kinds.  
CG:

I got an email from the director, hey we love your film it got in, it got an award, but we had to stop during the screening a few times because our Blind jurors felt left out by a joke in the film. It wasn’t described well enough. She said I’m sorry I don’t mean to be negative but are you at all available to re-record.

TR:

I suppose it’s viewing this process as art that produces Cheryl’s response.

CG:

Negative, this is the biggest gift in the world are you kidding me let’s go.

I rewrote several parts but I specifically rewrote the part that people felt left out by. My Blind Audio description teacher helped point out some spots where she still felt a little bit excluded or maybe even confused about what was happening. It’s just more descriptive. That’s how art should be. As you learn and develop your skills it gets more wonderful.

Audio: Basic Able

TR:

Wonderful, like the time she described an improvised dance segment for a video podcast. It featured Antoine Hunter

CG:

He is a really phenomenal person. He’s a dancer, choreographer and healing artist. He teaches dance. He’s marvelous. He’s Deaf and he’s the Artistic Director I think, of the Real Urban Jazz dance Company.

I’ve never done dance before. It was so fun and it was so exciting to try and get the dance moves and match them. And because he’s Deaf he incorporates some sign into the way he dances.

I’m not fluent at all, but I’m familiar with Sign language and I’m familiar with the role that facial expression plays in the grammar and expression of Sign language. So I was able to make references to his hand gestures as being Sign and references to his facial expressions.

I think I said his facial expressions mirror the expansiveness of his bodies motion.

Audio: from podcast if available…

TR:

Hopefully, by now, you too should at least start to see the art. It’s the familiarity with the culture that enables Cheryl to recognize such detail.

CG:

Everything that I do has something about disability or Deaf culture in it. I engage with it seven days a week. Whether I’m making something or reading or watching something. I try to immerse myself in the cultural aspects of Deafness and Disability. That brings a more lush Audio Description

TR:

That level of detail and equity goes as far as seeking input from those being described.

CG:

I sent Antoine the script because it wasn’t going to be in the captions for him to read. He really liked it and he corrected one part that he didn’t like. It didn’t feel fair to him and he gave me words that not only feel more fair to him, but were more beautiful than the words I had chosen. It was so collaborative and so beautiful.

When I’m describing what somebody’s body looks like or how it moves I send them my script. I ask them what they think about how I wrote it. or I tell them I’m going to audio describe this please tell me how you want time to describe what you look like. Sometimes people will send me a description that’s actually not very visual.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Like what?

CG:

Like when I say how do you want me to describe how you’re moving? And the response is a man with Cerebral Palsy. That doesn’t give me a sense of how you move, but I asked and you answered. And I respect your answer. But it is tricky because the point of audio description is to give people a flavor of the visuals and man with Cerebral Palsy that’s not very visual is it?

[TR in conversation with CG:]
No, not at all.

CG:

If it’s your content and I’m describing you and that’s all you give me ok, that’s what I’ll use.

When it’s my content I’ll use their words as the starting point and expand to make it more descriptive and more visual oriented.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

Give me an idea of the types of things that you would include in a description of someone.

CG:

I try to always describe something that relates to race or ethnicity. If I know how the person identifies then I can use those terms. If I don’t then I might be more descriptive. for instance, I describe myself as a white woman, which is kind of descriptive but not really because my skin tone is darker than any of my white friends. I’m the darkest person I know in my circle of white friends so it’s not super descriptive to say that I’m white. But it wouldn’t be useful to say I’m a brown woman because I’m white. I just have kind of light brown skin. If I don’t know their ethnicity I might say someone with a dark skin tone, someone with a fair skin tone. Sometimes I’ll defer to hair. A woman with bright red hair.. She’s probably white if she has bright red hair. now not necessarily of course.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

(Laughs…) Now-a-days!

CG:
There are different reasons why someone would have red hair regardless of their ethnicity.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

What would make you choose their hair and what would make you include that in the description. I wonder why would they say that? Why did they now tell me that this person is a Black person or whatever. And I’m like hmm, let me see if this is going to be really necessary to the story line.
CG:

Yeh!
[TR in conversation with CG:]

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t. And it leaves me wondering why they made that choice and why they didn’t describe the white person.

CG:

Ok, get ready!

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Yeh, ok! (Laughs.)

CG:

Oh my! I cannot tell you how with you I am. I’m going to describe something if it feels relevant to the story or for political reasons.

Just end my career now if I ever put something out there where I say the black person and the person meaning white. I don’t know if I would ever recover from my remorse.

I don’t do, a wheel chair user and a person. Huh! No! If there’s a wheelchair user and there’s someone else standing. One person sitting in a wheel chair and one person standing. I make political choices If one person’s race or ethnicity or nationality becomes relevant to the story, I am going to make a point to name everybody’s so that I’m not singling one person out as the other or the weirdo or the outsider.

There is no way that someone is ethnic and some other person is not ethnic. I just cannot even wrap my head around … I don’t even know what ethnic food means, what on earth, what? (Said with a lot of annoyance!)

What food doesn’t come from a culture? What? (Said exasperatingly)

No, I will name them all or I will name nobody. And it really depends on the content creator, what they’re going for, how much time there is and yes is it relevant. Is it going to make a difference to the story for me to know something about the ethnicities of the people involved and is there time to get that in there. And if I can’t describe them all then I can’t describe any. or sometimes I will tell somebody, you need to stretch out that first scene because I have got to get that description in there. I have to!

TR:

Movies, television are often a reflection of society. It’s not surprising that the politics of the world impacts the way we think about and create access to content.

There are many who believe the best approach is to ignore race or ethnicity all together. As Cheryl points out, the results don’t lead to equality.

CG:

I think when Audio Describers are shy, oh I don’t’ want to say those words, as an Audio Describer your comfort and discomfort are not supposed to be part of this. You’re censoring it for the viewers.

You know I was really moved by your episodes around Black panther. There’s the access piece, but also one of the ways we white wash is to pretend like white people are neutral and just people. And so whatever we think is important is what’s important. And yeh, they had some cool costumes in Black panther, but ok, cool costumes whatever. That’s not fair. It’s so beyond not fair, it really is a show of white supremacy.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Mm Hmm! (In agreement)

CG:

To neutralize overt displays of culture that are not white, you erase them, you ignore them. That is white supremacy. And it’s not ok.

If the film maker did not erase culture then the Audio Describer or Captioner really should not erase culture as well.

[TR in conversation with CG:]
Absolutely!

CG:

Some people feel like it’s just the detail, no. We’re talking about humanity and we’re talking about dehumanizing people. Willfully dehumanizing people when we leave stuff out

TR:

Cheryl says the same occurs in captions.

Not only is she creating films, accessible content through subtitles, captions and audio description, Cheryl produces the podcast Pigeonhole.

As described on Apple Podcast:

Pigeonhole challenges the stereotypes that disabled people are all white, straight, middle class people in search of a cure for their bodies and minds
the way mainstream media would make it seem. Made by from disability community, and centering disabled people as audience, Pigeonhole interrogates the
assumptions and biases we hold about disability and embraces all parts of people’s identities. We uplift disability culture, celebrate identity, and break
out of the narrow pigeonholes people attempt to stuff us in.

She’s a fellow recipient of the New Voice Scholarship warded by Association of Independence in Radio.

Receiving that scholarship puts us both in a very exclusive group of some of the best audio makers currently making radio and podcasts.

Audio: Microphone and other equipment collapsing during my conversation with Cheryl.

[TR in conversation with CG:]

We are having operating difficulties, please stand by

TR:

Well, maybe not all of us!

You can find Cheryl online at WhoAmIToStopIt.com She tweets under that same name, which again is her latest production.

Her films are available through New Day Film.com.

Checkout Cheryl’s podcast Pigeonhole – that’s P I G E O N H O L E. I especially like the episode titled “A nap and a bird.” It’s a short well told story that says a lot.

# Close

Audio: “As we proceed”

We’re continuing to advance our ongoing conversation around Audio Description and content access in general.

Considering captions & AD as art? Why shouldn’t it be. It’s the written word that has some pretty strict requirements including the time constraints and a need to quickly convey a message. We’re talking about talented writers and voice actors/narrators.

Let’s spread this way of thinking about accessible content.

Let’s push for content creators like Cheryl whether independent or in the major studios to see it as a tool to improve their storytelling. Then maybe we’ll see it become a part of the pre-production and be more of a reflection of the film’s conceived vision.

Looking at content access through a social justice lens feels like it leads closer to inclusion.

A big shout out to Cheryl Green! I enjoy speaking with her and appreciate her perspective. I guess I’ll go ahead and put this right here… I hope you will hear more from her right here on the podcast in the future.

You know, I still hope to hear more from you the listener. I’m not looking for you to write me long messages about how much you love the show or how funny you think I am or how much you like the production, or how much you think this podcast should be the top podcast on the charts or how it makes your day when a new episode publishes… no who would want to hear any of that!

I just want to know if it made you smile, gave you an idea or maybe encouraged you to do something.

I send myself fake messages about all the other stuff so I have that covered!

Seriously, holla back!

We have the comments section on the blog, ReidMyMind.com.
The email; ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com
The Reid My Mind Radio Feedback Line where you can leave a voice mail: 1 570-798-7343

I would really love voice messages that I can share on the podcast. If you don’t want to call, you can grab your smart phone and record a voice memo and email the finished recording to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I’d love to hear and share the voices of those who are listening. If you want to send a message but don’t want it shared just say so and it’s all good.

So make sure you Subscribe!
Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast Sound Cloud
Audio: Bring the audio to a screech!

## TR:

if you mainly listen to the podcast via Sound Cloud I’m hoping you will continue to listen but I am moving away from that platform. I’ve been tolerating their interface in order to avoid the move to another service.

I may decide to keep one or two episodes available, but the best method for staying caught up is to subscribe via Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, Tune In Radio and wherever you get podcasts.

You can always visit www.ReidMyMind.com

So there’s no confusion, that’s R to the E I D like my last name!

I appreciate you listening and if you liked what you heard please rate and even review the show via Apple Podcast. And please, tell a friend to listen. Spread the love, man!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Outro

Peace

Hide the transcript

On the Mic with Roy Samuelson

Wednesday, January 30th, 2019

Picture of Roy Samuelson
Continueing the #AudioDescription conversation this time with Voice Over Artist and AD Narrator Roy Samuelson. Hear about his start in the business, more about the process of creating Audio Description from his perspective and our shared enthusiasm for the subject.

We’re talking;
* Process – can Blind and Low Vision Narrators participate?
* Normalization vs. Diversity – Is there room for non-white voices?
* Technology & other opportunities for growth in the field and more…

Listen

Resources

Transcript

Show the transcript

RS:
My name is Roy Samuelson, I’m a Voice Over Artist.

Audio: Multiple demos of Roy’s voice over work.

TR:
That’s up next, right here with me T. Reid
your host and producer of this podcast, Reid My Mind Radio!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio theme Music

TR:

In 2018 I published some thoughts on Audio Description. That was followed up with an additional conversation on the subject. Today we’re continuing this exploration of Audio Description or AD. This time from the perspective of Voice Over artist and AD Narrator Roy Samuelson.

First, Roy answers the question, what exactly is a voice over

RS:

Voice over is anything you hear with a voice. That could be in a video game a character that’s talking. A commercial where someone’s introducing a product. A promo where there’s a T.V. show being advertised, someone’s introducing when it’s going to be on and what channel.

TR:
As a kid, Roy and his class was assigned the task of interviewing anyone they wanted.

RS:

I wanted to interview someone att eh radio station. When I went there one of the first things the announcer showed me was how to angle the mic so the p’s won’t pop and I thought that was the most amazing thing I had ever seen in my life. Laughs!
This little adjustment could make such a difference. So my curiosity was definitely started then.

TR:

That curiosity along with some additional experience helped lead Roy to voice over.

In his early 20’s he landed a job with then Disney’s MGM Studios theme park in Orlando Florida.

DisneyJob

RS:

I would take over as a gangster and take the audience through all of the scary scenes in movies. I’d have a microphone and in between shooting things I’d be narrating what was going on around the place.
Every 6 to 8 minutes I’d get blown up and start the thing again. So it kind of became like an exercise in just building the skill of talking to people who are paying attention to the story that they’re seeing. That kind of introduced me to voice over.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
What makes a good voice over artist?

There’s a bunch of different opinions. I like to see voice over as a form of acting. It’s a character whether it’s a narrator, a character in a cartoon or even just a commercial. It’s a character telling a story and being part of a story and sharing that with people.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

Do you have a background in acting as well?

RS:

I do yeah. I took a lot of improv classes. In school I had a lot of opportunities on stage and that’s really helped a lot.

TR:

That acting experience eventually landed Roy in a script writers group.
These meetings brought together professional script writers seeking feedback from actors who would cold read their scripts. Meaning, there was no preparation on the part of the actors.

RS:

We would read the characters and read the description and afterward the feedback was all about the writing. So the spotlight was definitely on the script and not the actors and I felt that was so enjoyable. I could play and I could have fun do these ice cold readings without a lot of preparation. The more times I practiced, the more experienced I got with cold reading. When I found out about audio description it seemed like a real segue way from what I had been doing at the script writes and even as far back as that Disney job along with all the other voice over work that I’ve been doing. It felt like a right fit.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

So how did you actually find out about Audio Description?

RS:

A friend of mine referred me and I didn’t literally knock on the door, but I knocked on the door for about two or three years just letting them know I was available and strongly interested and the response was well we’re kind of booked up right now we got everyone we need but thank you for checking in. It wasn’t a brush off it’s just that’s where it was. Every now and again there would be an opportunity where I could fill in for someone and I did. It was so exciting and so much fun and I said thank you so much any other time please let me know, oh sure we’ll let you know. Another year passed . It took a little while.

TR:

In order to get better insight on how Audio Description is made, I asked Roy to walk us through the process
from his perspective.

RS

Audio: Upbeat music…

The scripts are pre-written by, they’re called Describers.

I call myself a Narrator, Audio Description Narrator.

The scripts come to me pre-written and in it are obviously the words that I say. There’s a bunch of queues that tell me when I say what I say. For example, a queue could be time code, where I’m watching the screen and reading the script at the same time and on the screen there’s a time code (like a stop watch). When it gets to a certain point in time that’s my queue to start talking.

there’s visual cues or audio queues. Sometimes it’s the last few words of dialog that the character is saying. It could be even a pause between a long section that I’m speaking. First two sentences then there’s a 2 or 3 second pause before I start speaking again. There’s all sorts of different queues that they use.

TR:

Process makes production efficient. But
they can also unintentionally exclude people from
participating.
Visual cues for example could limit a blind Audio
Description Narrator’s ability to independently function in
such a position.
When I asked if laying down all of the voice over work and
editing at the appropriate time positions was an option,
Roy explained further.

RS:

That could be a way. I’m on a few one hour shows, when we’re all in sync and the script is ready, we’re able to finish in about an hour. They give me four hours total, just in case something can come up . For the most part, it’s not real time but it’s pretty close to real time.

TR:

Watching over the entire recording process is the AD Director. Familiar with the script, they’re listening for any mistakes including mispronunciations and time overlaps.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
So you’re sitting there watching the time code and reading the script, what happens if you go a little longer? Is it just okay, take two?

RS:

If there’s one line that I did not speak quickly enough and the last few words and maybe the last few syllables are spilling over to dialog , as you know that’s not fun for an audience member. They do their best to adjust it either by having me go a little faster or they try to change the words or they even slip the audio that I recorded and make it slide in to fit just perfectly.

TR:

Fully aware that Roy’s responsibility in the process is voicing the narration, I still had to ask;

[TR in conversation with RS:]

How do they determine which narrator is right for a movie or project?

RS:

That’s a great question. I’m learning, I’m definitely on the action adventure horror side of things. (Laughs…) You know with Criminal Minds, the upcoming Girl in the Spider’s Web, the Inspector, Jurassic World. This is the genre that is pretty narration heavy and I do my best to go as quickly as possible without sounding fast. I’ve done some other projects that are more wonderful in the sense of awe inspiring, kind of take it all in sort of thing. Those are the sorts of things that I been cast. That’s something they know I can do and I would think the people that make the decision it makes it easier for them. Oh yeh, this is something Roy’s already done before.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

One that I talked about and this was my personal opinion was Black Panther. So Black Panther ended up being voiced by what sounds like a British White Man.

RS:

Oh!

[TR in conversation with RS:]
For me as the consumer, I thought it was a little disruptive…

RS:

Sure!
[TR in conversation with RS:]

… to the whole feel and aura of the movie.

RS:

Yeh! Absolutely.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

I ended up hearing from some other people who said that same British person voiced Captain America. They were like, I didn’t like the fact that it was a British guy voicing Captain America. People felt a little upset by that. What is taken into consideration when these choices are made?

RS:
Oh it’s so exciting I have so many things I want to talk to you about with
this.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

Okay!

RS:

I remember there’s a quote by Shonda Rhymes where she talked about normalizing instead of diversifying. I’m seeing so many femal voices, people of color voices all sorts of opportunities. I hate to say it, the stereotypical white male voice that has been so common is now not as common which is great. I think there’s many more opportunities different voices to be in this. I think it can only help the story. I think you named two really great examples. When you’re in a story you don’t want to be interrupted. So when the audio description comes in it shouldn’t be out of left field.

I do think these companies are more aware of the content of the story being told and they’re taking a lot of consideration into that.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
That’s good to hear.

[TR in conversation with RS:]
One of my complaints in terms of the script and how things are determined, what are you going to describe? So if I go back to Black Panther, there was a very interesting thing that I found out because it was being discussed. It was not included in the description at all it came up like months after on a radio program I was listening to. They went into more description about the spaceship. I guess in one of the angles when the ship came down, they said how it resembled an African mask.

RS:

Hmmm! (In understanding.)

[TR in conversation with RS:]

They all look different but I get a real sense of that. Plus the fact that the spaceship was created like that , that blew my mind! But I never got access to that information.

RS:

Oh!! (In further understanding.)

[TR in conversation with RS:]

So there was a decision made. Someone didn’t think that was important. So this is why I’m always wondering well at some point it seems to me that the writers of the description should be the writers of the movie.

RS:
Oh, I see.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

They have the vision right? the Director, they’re the ones making these decisions . So some of that information of what they want that consumer to feel , whoever that consumer is Blind or sighted, that should be passed along and so I always wonder, are there conversations between the audio description company and the actual producers and writers of the film. And it doesn’t seem like it. Maybe on like an independent.

RS:

I’m not sure which film it was, but I know it was a big budget film, they definitely cared about to make sure the audio description was heard and they brought in the team. I was brought back and recorded some lines that were very nuanced.

So I think there is a genuine care for the audience for audio description. I’m not going to make a generalized blanket statement on that but I think there are people who are involved outside of audio description but still want to care about the things that you’re talking about.

I’m not sure if Haunting on Hill house on Netflix is described. There’s an element of that series, after 10 episodes I was kind of familiar with the story line. There was an element that was shared on line and as soon as I heard it it was so obvious. It was one of those things like aw wow I didn’t even notice that.

But I think what you’re talking about, back to the Black Panther spaceship is that with audio description we are limited to … if a picture is worth a thousand words , there’s 24 frames per second you know it’s like… I’m not defending it but it definitely is selective. The audio description is by its very nature limited. I’d be curious if there is a way to have like I’m just brainstorming here but out takes or something else that goes deeper into the story to allow those visual elements. How exciting that would be.

[TR in conversation with RS:]

I think there is.

For the Audio Description experience part of it is so so frustrating. It has nothing to do with what you all are doing, it’s the technical side. When you go to a movie theater chances are they’re giving you either the wrong device or the device doesn’t work. So you have to run back over and find a manager. And in my case it’s always my wife. She moves a lot faster than I’m going to move so she’s doing it! Boom, boom, boom! And I feel terrible. I feel awful because she’s missing that part of the movie, but she doesn’t want me to experience it without it.
There’s all this time during the promos. Those aren’t described so I’m usually bored. It would also be a test of the technology because if the right track is coming through that’s telling you about the movie, then you know your stuff is working, you technology is working. This is exactly what they do in a show, like a Broadway show. They introduce you to the cast beforehand. They describe their costumes, they let you get acclimated to their voices, they’ll describe the set. All of that is done before the show. So I think like hey, why not put that out beforehand. Yes the movie is limited to that time, but the experience really does go past that time.

RS:

Wow!

TR:

Listening back to our conversation, I realize a few things.

First, I think I get a little enthusiastic about the subject.

Secondly, I referred to the issues encountered in theaters when using AD only as a technical problem. And while yes sometimes the problems arise from the technology, more than often I feel as though the problems stem from uninformed theater workers.

I’m still trying to figure out why when you let them know you’re Blind and want to use the Audio Description device they translate that to mean you want the device for the hearing impaired.

Come to find out, Roy is familiar with this faulty part of the process.

RS:

My mom wanted to watch a screening with audio description, same thing happened. It didn’t work. The exciting thing with that is the manager found out apologized profusely , they said it was a glitch . There’s other technology coming out. I want to say Acti View?

[TR in conversation with RS:]
Yes Sir!

TR:
Acti View is the app that allows audio description consumers as well as those using captions and enhanced audio, with the means of directly downloading their access solution. For more on this service and how it came to be, check out the episode where we speak to one of the founders.

RS:
That kind of stuff is starting to happen. I can’t help but think that this is an opportunity. The popularity of podcasts, audio books and how easily accessible those are for this audio description is kind of in the same world. Commuters who happened to be sighted can enjoy the experience of audio description and that can only help the audience get more opportunities that look forward to enjoying it.

Aw I’m so excited.

TR:

It was nice to hear that Roy and I share a mutual excitement for Audio Description. It made for a good conversation.

Not only did I appreciate hearing his enthusiasm for the subject, listening to him accentuates his ability to employ several styles in his narration work. Roy says he tailors his voice to the genre.

RS:

I gotta be part of the stories. I can’t sound happy and joyous all the time. Laughs…

TR:

Next time you’re enjoying a television show or movie with Audio Description and you find yourself thinking that voice sounds familiar. there’s only one way to be certain. Wait until the end of the credits and you hear;

Audio: Read by Roy Samuelson. (Audio Description from “Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom”)

TR:

You can connect with Roy on social media;
On Twitter @RoySamuelson and
on Facebook you can find him as Roy Samuelson Biz or
visit Roy Samuelson.com

Audio bumper

Audio Description isn’t new. The lack of AD in movies and television programming over the years since its creation amounts to exclusion.

The result, many in the Blind and Low Vision community feel as though movies are just not for them.

In 2019 however, there’s lots of reasons to give television and movies with audio description a try.

We have
the 21st Century Telecommunications Act on our side – leading to more content.
And we have multiple accessible ways of consuming that content.

. If you haven’t yet experienced AD either at home or in a theater , I urge you to give it a try.

It’s not just entertaining television and movies, more documentaries are including description. Something I’m personally happy to see.

The process of making video accessible shouldn’t itself be inaccessible to the community it seeks to serve. Blind and low vision people should have access to these opportunities.

Blind people come from all backgrounds. We’re Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native as well as white. We’re straight, gay, lesbian transgender. As we call for television and movies to be more reflective of our society so should the voices that describe these movies to us.

How do you feel about Audio description?
Holla back!
We have the comments section on the blog, ReidMyMind.com.
The email; ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com
The Reid My Mind Radio Feedback Line where you can leave a voice mail: 1 570-798-7343

I would really love voice messages that I can share on the podcast. If you don’t want to call, you can grab your smart phone and record a voice memo and email the finished recording to ReidMyMindRadio@gmail.com.

I’d love to hear and share the voices of those who are listening. If you want to send a message but don’t want it shared just say so and it’s all good.

We’re going to continue to explore Audio Description as we move through 2019. So my best advice for you to make sure you don’t miss that and everything else in store…

Subscribe!
Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast Sound Cloud, Stitcher, Tune In Radio or wherever you get podcasts.
Visit www.ReidMyMind.com

So there’s no confusion, that’s R to the E I D like my last name!

Audio: Dramatic closing music from Jurassic World, Falling Kingdom RS: “Cut to Black”

Audio: RMMRadio Outro Theme

TR:

Peace

Hide the transcript

Reid My Mind Radio: Black on Audio Description

Wednesday, August 15th, 2018

Earlier this year I posted an episode discussing my thoughts on Audio Description. While I’ve been consuming and thinking about description for some time, it was Marvel’s Black panther that sparked me to share some thoughts and ideas.

I decided to continue a discussion on the topic. This time it’s really a conversation. I called a listener who sent me feedback regarding the episodes question. Why didn’t Black Panther have a Black person narrating the description?

And as a bonus, the listener just happens to be someone I’d like to interview for RMM Radio!

So yes, we’re back on that subject or better yet, we’re Black on Audio Description. Let’s get it!

Listen

Transcript

Show the transcript

TR:
What’s up Reid My Mind Radio family? For anyone new to the podcast, my name is T.Reid.

This podcast more than often focuses on issues of adaptation and adjustment through interviews with people who have been impacted by vision loss – from low vision to blindness. I should say severe low vision because personally I’m tired of people telling me how blind they are without their glasses.

You Sir/Madam are more then welcomed here, but if you can put on your corrective lenses and get into your vehicle and drive off – you are not impacted by vision loss.

The people mainly profiled here are indirectly challenging stereotypes about what it means to be blind.

I’m always hopeful that listeners learn something new. Maybe it’s an unfamiliar subject or a new way of looking at or solving a problem.

Occasionally , I share my own experiences around becoming blind as an adult. These are influenced by all aspects of identity – including
gender, socioeconomic status, age, demographic location and of course so called race.
I mean, this is America!

A few episodes ago I discussed an aspect of blindness that can intersect with race.
Audio description!

Audio: “What” – From “Jay Z “Jigga what, Jigga Who.”

Well that could be two whats…

Audio: “What, What” – From “Jay Z “Jigga what, Jigga Who.”

Don’t be nervous! Let’s get into it…
After the intro…!

Audio: Reid My Mind Radio Theme

## TR:

Back to the questions.
What is audio description & what does race have to do with it?

If you don’t know audio description, let me really welcome you to the podcast. Audio description or AD is the additional narration distributed with a movie or television show that describes scenes without dialogue,
enabling a person to non visually follow or access the content.

That other what?
What does being black have to do with audio description?

On the technological level , nothing! But as we know, race is complex. It’s ingrained into the fabric of this country. The complexity though, isn’t tied to the tech, rather its the subtle aspects of language, decisions about what is relevant and the voice of the narrator that impact some viewers experience

In the earlier episode on audio description, I was specifically referring to the Marvel hit movie and what many Black people looked forward to as a cultural event; Black Panther.

Following that piece I received a bit of feedback.
If you go to the episode blog post at ReidMyMind.com you can see one commenter’s response and I encourage you to follow the link to her blog
where she shares more. She is a person who herself is involved in the description process. Self described as a white lady she was appreciative of the issues and questions raised and thought they deserved to be discussed. Shout out to you for the link love and being in the accessibility field. I think sometimes we forget that AD is accessibility.

I also received an email from a young lady – who closely identified with the issues raised in the episode.

She was pleased to know that she was not the only one who felt that the description included with Black Panther, well sucked! My words, not hers.

No shots to the gentlemen who described the film, you sound like you’re probably a very nice person and quite honestly, I’d love to speak with you. In fact, I reached out to Deluxe, the company who created the description for Black panther but I never heard back. I really wanted to begin a dialogue.

It seems fair that a consumer would have something to say about a product or service.
And personally I think it could be helpful to have a bit of input from those who consume your product or service. And well that’s today’s focus.

Audio: James Brown: Black & I’m Proud – Instrumental

That email expressing agreement with my opinions, was from a young lady named Denna Lambert. Like me she experiences blindness as an African American.

She black yawl!

I don’t often get the chance to meet new people who are blind and who are people of color. So I’m not gonna lie, I was looking forward to the conversation. I had questions.

So, let’s get black on Audio Description.

Audio: James Brown: “Say it loud, I’m Black & I’m Proud”

TR in conversation with DL:
You heard the podcast, what was it that jumped out to you to write the email and say “Hey I feel this too, I get it!”

DL:
Well being blind, sometimes just getting audio description feels like a luxury and your happy that somebody did it and it came out at the same time as everything else and I can just shut up and be happy. But at the same time with you being really thoughtful in what you were saying like “hey this was a mismatch” And I was like “Oh, you voiced what I was thinking!” Just knowing that I’m a consumer of a service and we should have a voice in how that service is implemented. If it’s missing a mark we can help take it to the next level. Yes people have fought and probably sued some theaters to make sure the equipment is functional and that is there from day one. But let’s take it to the next level to make sure that it is culturally confident. And it was like Oh Snap I got to support this too. I think that is why I reached out because I was thankful for being silently dissatisfied at some level. I felt like I didn’t get the full Wakanda experience.
TR in conversation with DL:
I’m still lacking some Wakanda experience myself. [laughs]

TR:

That Wakanda experience was what drove millions of Black people to get excited about the movie.

Some indeed were fans of the Marvel franchise, some may have even been fans of the comic book. But many were simply looking forward to a movie with strong diverse images of Black people on screen.
I talked a bit more about that in the original episode of the podcast on this subject.

Denna herself was anticipating the movie just as much as many others and got a bit more into it than I did.
DL:
I was in the hype just like everyone else when the trailer first dropped which didn’t even have audio description. I called my mamma and said let me get my dashiki so I got my dashiki and I was ready and had my headdress. When i heard voices of Andrea Bassett i was like “Yes!” So I went and thankfully the movie theater I went to they had the audio description devices ready and they were fully operational. From the first introduction where they were talking about how Wakanda was created with the different tribes and the describes voice coming up I was like “Who?! Who is this?!” But I’m still excited. So it was kind of a mismatch from everybody who was in the theater. Some people brought their gymbays and people had their dashikis and you know just black power. And you can hear the describer’s voice and not to say you can sum up a movie by their voice but it was like “huh.” The descriptions were definitely okay but that’s the piece as a blind viewer. But there was so much content for any viewer whether they were sighted or blind. I have to wonder what did i miss. Could there have been different words used that would have more aligned with the culture and the theme of the movie.
I started using AIRA and now i started seeing more AIRA agents of color. Im seeing Antonio and Annika and all them. And I’m like “Okay I’m going to need yall and come and describe some movies for me.”

TR in conversation with DL:
MMM you just made me think about something hold on one second. That takes that whole idea of description out of the movie theater because that’s the whole purpose of AIRA and then cultural inclinations about various things that you are doing.

DL:
Yeah. I’ve seen Black Panther abot 3-4 times just because anybody who wanted to go I wanted to go with them. There’s probably so much mystery and thoughtfulness that was put into it. SO like the scene where T’Challa and Nakia were in the club and they were trying to go after the main guy and they were in their attire. I don’t think the person described the attire, he described her movements but i was watching a video from one of the directors and he intentionally used the colors; green, black, and red to symbolize their african pride. And that’s something that just one little sentence could have brought that out. While I was very happy and thankful that the description was available since day one because that certainly was not the case 10-15 years ago that i could just show up whenever i wanted to. But i think there is some growth that could happen with this area of accessibility.

Tr in conversation with DL:
SO went you went a bunch of times with different people, did you go with anyone that was blind or no?

DL:
No actually no it was just with different sighted friends who just wanted to go.

Tr in conversation with DL:
Did you compare notes with them or anything at all?
DL:
A little bit because I went with some friends that were black and then I went with some friends that were white. And you know they were asking me what was this and what was that and i was like well I don’t know. [Laughs]

Tr in conversation with DL:
“I don’t live in Wakanda!” [laughs]

TR:

There are definitely some overlaps in this conversation around audio description that transcend cultural Competence.

Feeling as though audio description is a privilege, I’m sure is something many blind people have felt.

Going to a theater and the device doesn’t work, well you may not want to trouble the person you’re with to quickly exchange the device. That means missing part of the movie and chances are you don’t want someone to have to do that.

Shout out to ActiView and their audio description solution that puts more of the power in the consumers hands. You can check out the Reid My Mind Radio archives for that interview on that service that I personally hope begins to get more movies in their app.

Audio: Public Enemy: Party for Your Right to Fight

Privilege or a right?

If audio description is access to content, then I believe it’s a right. Like everyone else who has the right to pay money to watch a film or television show, people with disabilities have the right to audio description, captions and physically accessible theaters.

What makes our lack of excitement about Black panther’s audio description
so confusing is the lack of consistency between the big and small screens.

Watching the Marvel franchise on Netflix with audio description is vastly different from Black panther.

For the sake of comparison, I asked Denna about her thoughts on Marvel’s Luke Cage.

Luke Cage is the black superhero who calls Harlem home. He can’t be hurt. Bullets bounce off and knives can’t penetrate his skin.

The person describing Luke Cage, who by my account sounds like a white man, describes the other shows in the series, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, The Punisher and more.

DL:
He’s been consistent through the marvel comic series as netflix has been rolling it out. So it was almost embedded in brain that this was the dude that’s going to bring it. There was definitely some awareness in hearing when they would say things like “he’s wearing a fedora.,” or “he’s swaggering down the sidewalk” or “he did a dab” or the hair. And I don’t know if just anybody can point these things out.
With Luke Cage there was nothing apologetic about how this is the blackest comic that you are going to get. What I really loved is that the describer, I don’t know if it was apparent to the visually to whomever was viewing it, but I love that they reference the specific artists as they came up in the Paradise Lounge.
So to me that was showing respect and it gave me the experience of thinking “okay let me go look for some of these people.”
Tr in conversation with DL:
It’s not only the ones who are actually performing, they also are good at including people who are just around and even in other scenes.

DL:
Yeah so even like the picture of Biggie, he described his expression, his crown and how it was kind of laid to the side. To me that, I don’t know, it just seems…

Tr in conversation with DL:
Just culturally confident.

DL:
And I think with you were saying earlier, it wasn’t like two different scripts. It felt like there was one different script with the description being apart of the verbalizations too.

Tr in conversation with DL:
I almost don’t even think of the description as description while watching netflix.

DL:
Right!

TR:

That term truly encapsulates what should be a part of the audio description checklist.

Is the description culturally competent – meaning are we informing the blind viewers about the subtle references that will make sense to them? This would probably require input from the films creator if there’s no one in the know involved in the process.

This idea is already relevant to the movie or television show’s dialog and choices made regarding character development.

It’s one thing being black and looking for true representation in Hollywood. What about as a woman? As a black woman with a disability.
Tr in conversation with DL:
What do you think about the role of the black woman in Luke Cage.

DL:
Oh now that was pretty sweet! I was really proud that Luke Cage he’s like the strong Black man. Hes caring. I was really glad to see his girlfriend, Claire. And she was holding on to that no this behavior of holding on to your anger, she grew up with that and she was not going to tolerate it.
I loved Missy. I loved that she was this strong woman who was feminine. She
Didn’t lose not just her sexuality bit sensuality.
There was so many different aspects of black women in this. You had Mariah.
Tr in conversation with DL:
[laughs] She was crazy.

DL:
She was great! She played that! I loved seeing Luke’s father.

Tr in conversation with DL:
I didn’t realize that he passed, I totally forgot he passed away.

DL:
Yeah! Because he was in House of Cards and I was so happy to see he was in there. SO there were so many examples, a whole spectrum of what blackness in. You know you don’t have to be the thug or the jessabella. There were so many different examples of black women in there that i was really impressed.
I love how Missy called out all of her coworkers cause they were staring at her prosthetics. SHe was like “let’s just get a look at it, im here, im not going away, this happened.” And i was just glad that she called it out. That was a way of handling disability, it became a part of who she was. She even described on when she was using her prosthetic arm or robotic arm and when she wasn’t. Which I don’t know if that was so important for me to know but the describer pointed that out.

Tr in conversation with DL:
I think the whole idea was that shes statint to use it more and it’s even more of a part of her, she’s getting accustomed to it. And so I’m wondering if she’s going to get her own thing.

DL:
Yeah you know what, she was doing some things that were like humanly impossible so I was wondering if she’s going to get some superpowers.

Tr in conversation with DL:
Yeah because isnt that a Stark arm?

DL:
Yeah yeah.
I loved the complexity of them having different territories; the choinese, the russians. They pulled in references for Katrina and showing that there can be disagreement. Like the judge who said “i had a family in louisiana who lost everything, don’t use this as an example for your shadiness. I don’t know I loved it I felt it was pretty cool. The ending ended with I think he changed the picture from Biggie to Mohammed Ali. But that’s the thing! I think the way that the description was, we noticed those things but we don’t know what we missed in Black Panther.

Tr in conversation with DL:
What i liked about it was how they would say it because the director meant for it to be. For example when Mariah and Shades were standing in front of the picture and the crown aligned to Mariah’s head to show she was the queen.

TR:

As we see with Luke Cage it doesn’t specifically mean the narrator has to be black. Or does it?

TR in conversation with DL:
What would you think about a woman describing that? A black woman doing the description in Luke Cage.

DL:
Ohh. Oh.

Tr in conversation with DL:
You think it could work?

DL:
It would have to be the right voice because I’ve seen on Netflix the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt because it wasn’t really for me. But the person’s voice on there, I don’t’ know if she’s’ white or not, but no she could not do Luke Cage. [Both laughs] We don’t want her! She can do some other shows but she can not do this.
If Octavia Spencer or, why am I forgetting her name.

Tr in conversation with DL:
I know who you’re talking about you’re talking about the woman from How to Get Away with Murder.
DL:
Yes!

Tr in conversation with DL:
Yeah she has a great voice.

DL:
Yeah if she wanted to describe it, then yes.

TR:
For those who are fans of How to get away with murder… my apologies. The star of that show is the incredible Academy award winning Viola Davis.

Whether the description is voiced by a man or woman, Denna says:

DL:
It has to be somebody who follows that it was Harlem so you have to have somebody who has that Harlem… I don’t know.

Tr in conversation with DL:
That texture in their voice, I know what you’re saying.

DL:
It cannot be a very thin voice it’d have to be a full bodied voice.

Tr in conversation with DL:
I think it could work. That is if they don’t give me the job because I’ve put it out there before that I wanted that job. Although I like the guy who does it, I’m fine with him but if he’s going im going to jump in there because that’s Harlem. I’m not from Harlem, Im from the Bronx but I can take Harlem.

DL:
Yes! You could do it. [Both laughs]

TR:
Hey, there’s nothing wrong with trying to speak things into existence. But come on, , how cool would it be to have a person who is actually blind, from New York… born just a few miles away from Harlem, my Daddy’s from Harlem. And I’m blind. Universe, do you hear me talking.

#NetflixCallTReid

There’s much more to this discussion. Hopefully like the original episode, this will attract some feedback. I’d love to hear from others on this subject. Maybe you are a person of color and have some other examples of both disappointing and enjoyable audio description experiences. let me know. In fact, if you’re not a person of color and
was disappointed in the Black Panther description I’d like to hear from you.

When it comes to movies and television, Ultimately, , I think we all want the same thing; the right to enjoy the experience.

I’m interested in all experiences of blindness and disability in general, but I would really like to hear more from other people of color. I know there are some compelling stories out there .

For instance, corresponding with Denna prompted me to be even more nterested in her experience.
Let me show you what I mean.

Audio: Screen reader reading Denna’s email signature…
TR:
If you don’t speak screen reader, that was her email signature. Denna is a project manager at NASA.

Now, this wouldn’t be Reid My Mind Radio if we didn’t find out more about her journey. We’re going to get into that next time on the podcast.

So, if you’re new or if you haven’t just yet, may I encourage you to subscribe to the podcast. Reid My Mind Radio is available on
Apple Podcast, Google Play, Sound Cloud, Stitcher, Tune In Radio. If you’re using a podcast app you can find it there.
Go on over to ReidMyMind.com for links to subscribe as well as a transcript of the show.

Remember that’s R E I D like my last name.

If this was your first time here I know what you’re thinking…
It happens all the time…

DL:
happens all the time…

TR:
Wait until you hear what more is coming up!

Audio: Reid My Mind Outro

Peace

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Reid My Mind Radio: On Black Panther Audio Description – Race, Selection & Time

Wednesday, May 2nd, 2018

More on Black Panther? Well, yes, sort of! It’s really a good movie that raises some issues about Audio Description that need to be a part of AD conversations. In fact, these issues go further and touch on so called race and disability. I thought I’d begin here… Plus some suggestions as to how we can enhance the Audio Description improving the movie experience for Blind movie goers.

Subscribe to the podcast via Apple, Google Play, Sound Cloud, Stitcher, Tune In Radio

Listen

Transcript

Show the transcript

TR:

What’s up RMMFamily!

It’s been a while since I felt the need to share some thoughts on my mind.

So here I go!

What you’re hearing is a scene from this year’s record breaking super hero movie from Marvel Studios, Black Panther.

I enjoy a super hero movie like everyone else , I’m just not one to get all fan boy about it before actually seeing the movie. I do enjoy the build up to the premier and the anticipation from those more passionate about the character and genre.

Black panther was a little different for me. It was pretty difficult to open my Twitter app and not read something about the movie. Whether television, radio or podcasts and all other media, Black Panther was a trending topic.

We planned to see the movie as a family either during the first week or soon thereafter. Unfortunately, my back problems forced us to alter our
plans.

Audio: “Doctor Says I need a backiotomy!” Dave Chappelle, “Half Baked”

Over the past few years, as Audio Description has increasingly been included in major movie releases (at least most that I’ve been interested in seeing) I find myself assuming that movies will be accessible for me.

Rather than questioning if it’s going to be included, Marvel’s Black Panther led me to be more concerned with the quality of the Audio Description or AD. To some extent we can probably consider that progress. However, improving the quality is a major part of moving to an experience closer to that of a sighted movie viewer.

My issues with Black Panther’s Audio Description begin with their choice of narrator and those scenes and elements included in the description. I propose we should think about description outside of the limitations set forward by movie’s start and end time.

The AD included in Black Panther was in my opinion lacking from the beginning.

One of the reasons I was excited to see this movie is because of the predominantly Black cast. The movie mostly takes place in the fictional African nation of Wakonda. This relatively small nation appearing to the outside world to be underdeveloped was actually the most technically advanced nation on the planet. Home to vibranium which absorbs sound waves and other vibrations, including kinetic energy making it the strongest metal.

Now, yes, this is a fictional movie, but for African Americans it represented the chance to see characters that display the people and culture in a positive light on screen. Finally getting a break from the roles of thugs, domestic, the white persons best friend who’s only existence appears to be to aid the friend and the sassy Black woman. And when it comes to movies taking place in the future – we’re more than often just written out completely.

Hollywood just has a problem with representation in general outside of your able bodied white male.

For many Black Panther lived up to the hype and fulfilled the void of not seeing positive representations of people of African descent. The vibe of this movie was unapologetically Black.

For those of us watching with Audio Description, well the vibe wasn’t the same. Trying to remain in the dream nation of Wakanda was impossible when we’re being shaken awake by the narrator who by all accounts was a British White man.

Does this mean, white people shouldn’t be allowed to narrate movies with predominantly Black casts? It’s really probably more like the reverse, should narrators of color be able to narrate stories outside of their culture. Of course.

However, when the movie is so deeply associated with a culture – I think it makes sense to extend that to the audio description.

Concise and informative description is even more imperative in fictional movies such as Black Panther. Often, the technology, architecture and possibly fashion is unique to the fictional location.

So much of these things were left out of the movie, forcing blind viewers to ask for input from others. For example, the description of the city itself being described something like a mix between modern and ancient… My view of ancient or modern may be different from another person’s. It seems too subjective.
In fact, someone who has never seen modern may not get much imagery at all from that statement.

There were several other things that I learned of only from having conversations with friends and family following the movie. Some of these things I thought really helped tell the story of the people and culture of Wakanda hence the story of Black Panther.

Now maybe this seems weird to you, but I was annoyed that a decision was made to not read the credits. This is especially relevant in a Marvel movie. Those familiar with these movies know not to leave until the credits are done because Marvel includes a scene or two that’s relevant to the telling of the next story in the series – somewhat of a preview or sneak peek. I personally enjoy hearing the names of the actors in the cast and sometimes enjoy hearing the many names of those involved in the production. Without this access I’m forced to ask who ever I’m with to read or look for a certain cast member. That usually feels like too much to ask someone.

— Close —

Looking at movie making as a process you can sort of neatly put things into categories or phases.

This includes everything from the idea to the creation including pre production to post production. Writing, casting, filming, editing and distribution.

Right now the Audio Description as far as I can tell takes place right before that last distribution phase.

Movie studios contract with companies specializing in Audio Description. Many of these companies also specialize in closed captioning as well and possibly language translations.

When we talk about access to technology; software, hardware, apps & websites the goal is access from the design phase. Shouldn’t we want the same from Audio Description?

Movies, televisions programs, documentaries, theater plays..any visual medium are really works of art. Someone has a vision. With movies and television , it’s the Director who is in charge of what the consumer sees. He/She is setting up and or approving camera placement, lighting and everything involved with the final images. They’re telling the story. That’s what the consumer sees.

Audio Description being written by a third party is now including a new vision. One that to my knowledge doesn’t include any real consultation with the Director.

There are certain scenes that are designed and purposely shot in a specific way to evoke an emotion, convey some sort of meaning.

With the limitations currently in place in creating an Audio description track for a movie, most notably making use of the silent time in between the dialog, things are going to get left out. The choices made by the AD production companies may not be the same as those of the Director.

Are we really limited to just the hour and a half or two hours from the movie’s start to end?

I’ve attended live plays which begin the description early.

Blind users were invited to the theater 45 minutes to an hour earlier than the general audience. This gave us time in some instances to explore the stage and set, costumers and even become familiar with the voices of the different actors.

Currently, Audio Description doesn’t begin until the movie starts. It seems like a track could be created and either streamed prior to the movie and even be made available for listening before arriving to the theater. In the case of Black Panther a more comprehensive description of the country could have been written including their technology and more without spoiling the movie.

It could also help to have some audio streaming through the device to assure its working before the movie begins. All too often when going to a movie with my wife, as the movie began I would realize there was no description coming through the headphones. My wife would run out of the theater to find a manager in order to get it fixed.

Going back to my comparison with access to technology, from an advocacy perspective many of us have written directly to developers of software, websites and apps. At the very least, these individuals become informed about the need for access. I often wonder if director’s, screen writers, producers and others in the early Pre production phase are aware of Audio Description.

In 2016 I had the opportunity to speak with Peter Middleton, one of the directors of a film featured on Reid My Mind Radio; Notes on Blindness. The film which is sort of a documentary with reenactments of actual events lip synced to the recordings of real audio captured by Theologian, John Hull using a cassette recorder. Mr. Hull kept very detailed recordings of his experience and thoughts as his vision faded beginning in 1983

There were multiple versions of the film released including one with Audio Description and the other with what they referred to as enhanced audio. This was an experiment of sorts that used additional dialog and more audio as queues to help viewers who are blind have a more inclusive experience of the film without the need for Audio Description or negatively impacting the experience for sighted viewers.

Creative people when facing a challenge step up and figure out ways to best communicate their vision.

From everything I’ve read and watched online about Ryan Coogler, the Director of Black Panther, I think he would have been the best person to write or at least lead the process of creating AD for the movie. He was involved in every aspect of this movie from choosing an African dialect from the South African region to use as the language spoken in the fictional country of Wakanda to the look and feel of their technical innovations.

Should consumers of AD be pushing for a change in where the description takes place in the movie life-cycle?

Should AD companies be teaming up with writers in an earlier phase along the production timeline?

Should movie writers strive to include more descriptive dialog that enables a blind movie goer to independently enjoy the movie?

Could directors and others like sound designers take blind movie goers into consideration and use a combination of all their tools to better improve the movie experience?

Could consumers have more control of their AD by using apps like Actiview (also profiled on Reid My Mind Radio) – helping to eliminate the problems of uninformed theater workers who are now responsible for making sure they give out and properly configure the right device.

I’m hoping those in the Audio Description field in combination with blind consumers, are thinking about these things that I believe will greatly improve the Audio Description experience.

I’m very appreciative of the improvements made to enable access across all media. I was a pretty big movie watcher before losing my sight and I really enjoy continuing this as part of my life. It helps maintain relationships, start new ones through conversations around a shared experience and if it’s a good movie, it allows for new thoughts or even escape and just good entertainment. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

On the subject of thought provoking content or entertainment, you should subscribe to this podcast hopefully for at least one of those things.

It’s easy to do using any podcast app. We’re on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Sound Cloud, Stitcher, Tune In Radio and you can always head over to ReidMyMind.com that’s R E I D, where you can listen, read the transcript and access episode resources.

I’m T.Reid and I thank you for listening!

Peace!

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Reid My Mind Radio – The Reidwind Episode

Wednesday, April 26th, 2017

Sometimes it’s worth pausing to take a look at your work. Maybe a time to reflect, re-evaluate or maybe just slow down to pick some others up as you continue along the way.

Today we rewind, or rather Reidwind, and take a look back at some of the prior episodes in the past six months.

There’s lots of ways to consume this content… Sound Cloud, Apple Podcast and others, even transcript.

Transcript

Show the transcript

TR:
For more than 2 years I have been producing this podcast.

The last 6 months or so include episodes that exemplify some of the reasons I enjoy doing this.

Today, let’s take a quick look back.

If you’re new here it’s a great way to introduce you to some of what Reid My Mind Radio is all about.

I say some because part of the stress and the joy of doing this is it’s mine… I can do whatever the Bleep I wanna do…

Like right now… I wanna drop my intro music!

[Audio Reid My Mind Theme Music…]

TR:
This podcast is a place for me to share opinions. Like…

After attending the Pennsylvania Council of the Blind conference; where people with vision loss are the main attendees, the environment is made very accessible. Unfortunately, outside of these types of experiences, this rarely occurs.

TR: From [” Are Blind Conferences Fantasy” Posted November 2, 2016](http://reidmymind.com/reid-my-mind-radio-are-blind-conferences-fantasy/)
I recently heard these types of tours and activities or even the conferences themselves  described  as fantasy.
The idea is that this is not and will never be the real world. The real world I guess in the minds of those who believe this is fantasy will always  exclusively
cater only to those with sight and forever exclude people with vision loss.

At various times  throughout my journey with vision loss I came close to believing things can’t change. My struggle with cynicism was only made worse 
with the random encounters with those who remind me that they see me first as a blind man and their definition of that goes beyond my inability to see.
For them it’s the subconscious stereotypes and misperceptions that create their image of who I am. the things I do or don’t do are viewed through a lens
painted with layers of misinformation that so much of society has been lead to believe about blindness and disability.

TR:
Whenever possible, I like to include my daughters in my podcast.
I just enjoy their company,
when we hang out it’s always fun …
we laugh and act silly.
We share our sense of humor so it’s going to be fun.

In early December I tried to convince them
to do their own episode of the podcast as they did a few years ago, but
this time with a special twist.
From [“Join the Coalition” Posted December 31, 2017](http://reidmymind.com/reid-my-mind-radio-join-the-coalition/)

[TReid in conversation with Raven]
Alright, I think we need to bring back Rizzle Razzle this year…

Raven:
I agree!

TReid:
…but

Raven:
Oh no…

TReid:
… you should have a guest…

Raven:
Ooooh, who is this guest?

TReid:
… me, Daddy!

{After several seconds…}

Raven
No!

[Silence]
TReid:
Yeh, I know, you’re probably just as shocked as I am!

After about 30 minutes or so I let it go…

Maybe I went about this the wrong way.
Rizzle is the oldest, she’d be able to influence Razzle.
Even though she’s away at school, we speak everyday…
I’m ready for her call usually in the morning as she’s walking to class.
That’s when I decided, I’ll get her on my side and the show will be a go…

Here’s how that went down…
[Sound of Harp indicating going back in time.]
[Sound of iPhone ringing]
TReid:
You know, why drag it out?

Riana: “No!”

[Jay Z, What more can I say…]

TR:
They came around and we
closed the year with the [Rizzle Razzle episode](http://reidmymind.com/reid-my-mind-radio-rizzle-razzle-year-end-special/)
Even though they sabotage my microphone!

*This episode did not include transcripts as it was very much dependent on the music being discussed.

TR:
Reid My Mind is more than personal …
it’s about telling people’s stories…

People adjusting to blindness like
Robert Ott who drew from his martial arts background to move forward after losing his sight to a gun shot womb.

RO:
I couldn’t believe this was happening to me. Everything was racing through my mind. I’ve got pictures of me doing dive rolls over large groups of people and doing splits in the air. I used to go running a lot on the beach and hand springs and just all kinds of beautiful great stuff. I was so weak I couldn’t even do a push-up and now I’m blind. I can’t get around, my independence, my confidence, my self-esteem, my balance.

TR:
While these stories are specific to adjusting to blindness,
it’s easy to see how everyone has their own way of responding.

Maria Johnson, AKA Girl Gone Blind , decided to share her experiences and challenges on her own blog. …
She spoke very candidly of her adjustment process.
One memorable moment was some of her personal words of encouragement that led to a little creativity …

In [“Who is Girl gone Blind”](http://reidmymind.com/reid-my-mind-radio-who-is-girl-gone-blind/) I included a “song” created using Maria’s words specifically “I got this”.

TR:
I don’t like to use the often referred to idea of
overcoming blindness or disability and accomplishing goals.
I like to think of working with what you have …
making the most out of your situation and counting your blessings…
Like young Ant, the first female blind rapper
From [“Meet Young Ant, First Female Blind Rapper”](http://reidmymind.com/reid-my-mind-radio-meet-young-ant-first-female-rapper-whos-blind/)

TReid:
Young Ant in the building!

YA:
Young Ant in the building!

Treid:
Uh Oh!

So the way I look at this; Antynette is the person, Young Ant is the rapper!

YA:
[Laugh!] Yeah, that’s right!

TReid:
Alright, so first who is Antynette?

YA:
Antynette is a young lady who has been through a lot in a little bit over a year and half and is trying to find her through it with adjusting and coping
and in different techniques that I’m learning and trying to find different avenues of expressing how I’m feeling.

[Intro to “Count your Blessings” by Young Ant]

TReid:
Beautiful!
I lost my sight about 13 years ago. And so…

YA:
Really!

TReid:
Yeh so one of the things that I like to hear from people adjusting to blindness is that they don’t first start with who they are with the fact that they
are blind. You said you are a young lady!
Now, tell me who’s Young Ant?

YA:
Well Young Ant is a motivational rapper!

TR:
And then some like Doctor Dre best known for Yo MTV Raps and more, who’s adjustment process is about Fighting Back…

From[“Doctor Dre’s The Fight Back”](https://t.co/CzpxqDcUXg)

Dre:
I embrace it. And in embracing it he has put me on a path  to help other people and to reach out and express myself not  just about the type 2 Diabetes
not only about the blindness but  about when something goes on and there’s a struggle sometimes embrace your struggle to find your solutions.
It doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee for a cure or a guarantee to a perfect answer  but what it does is says you know what  I’m more than what’s going on with
me.
I can also work with this.

If you have a good relationship with your family, friends and  other people and reaching out. I learn every day from so many different people  and I pay
attention and I  try to pass on some of the knowledge of what I get  so that people can help themselves

TR:
It’s more than the adjustment experience.

We heard from
Robert Lewis sharing his story of
growing up in a segregated school for blind students.

From [“At The Intersection of Black & Blind”](http://reidmymind.com/reid-my-mind-radio-at-the-intersection-of-black-and-blind/)

RL:
We went to one restaurant and the lady said you got to eat as fast as you can so we can get you out of here before the owner comes  back because if he
saw we had Black people here he would fire me!

TR:
In North Carolina, it was more than getting a meal.

RL:
Guys jumped out of the car and came over and they were going to beat us
all up.
We had no idea … What is this all about? Is it because we are blind; no, it’s  because you’re black and you’re blind!

TR:
Naru Kwinah and Leroy Moore, the two gentlemen producing the
documentary of the life of Joe Capers. Played a big role in artists like EnVogue, Tony Tony Tony and MC Hammer

From [“Who is Joe Capers”](http://reidmymind.com/reid-my-mind-radio-who-is-joe-capers/)

Naru:
Listen brother! His studio was called “J-Jams Studio: Joe did everything.  He had his mix board in Braille. He recorded, he engineered he mixed, he produced.
He did everything that you could every possibly do in the studio. And he had the greatest ear I have ever been around and I’ve  been doing music over 40
years of my life. If you had one note or one little thing off he knew and he would call you on it. You know because he was blind you thought you’d  get
away with stuff.

TR:
In that same episode we learn about Krip Hop from founder Leroy moore.

LM:

This year is our 10th Anniversary and we have loose chapters…

TR:
These include countries within Africa, the UK, Germany and Spain.

[Audio: “Tales of the Krip-Hop”, Rob da Noize Temple]

With the network formed by Leroy and co-founder Keith Jones, the two being disabled activists, the focus continues to be on education and advocacy.

LM:
So we saw Krip-Hop as a way to bring awareness around the history of disabled musicians from the Blues to Hip-Hop and really educate and to push the Hip-Hop
arena  around Ableism thinking around disability and to really say that disabled musicians have been here since the Blues.

TR:
That’s just a taste of some of what has appeared here on
Reid My Mind Radio over the past few months.

Subscribe now to make sure you are riding along during
the months to come.

You can subscribe via Apple Podcast or where ever you like to get your podcast content. That includes Stitcher and Tune In Radio.

Go check that out now, there’s lots of good stuff.

If you’re listening on Sound Cloud, hit that follow button.

I’m Thomas Reid
[Audio: Young Ant “Don’t get it wrong, I’m in my zone”]

[Audio: Reid My Mind theme music outro]
Peace

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